New Dress Rules?
Not sure if this is the right section of site to post in...
but...have just seen this thread on Expatwoman
http://www.expatwoman.com/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=69168
and want to know what rules are these? are they new? How bloody daft are they considering nightclubs etc, should I buy an abaya next time I want a nice dinner at 'W's???
Thanks
"...regardless of what people's perception are, telling people how they can dress or not is wrong. In islam we have been told to pass on knowledge, not to enforce it on one. ..."
Islam preaches enforcing of what is correct (not just passing knowledge):
Islam preaches amr-bil-Ma’roof (ordering for acknowledged virtues) and nahi anil munkar (forbidding from sin).
Allah (SWT) says:Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good (Islâm), enjoining Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm orders one to do) and forbidding Al-Munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islâm has forbidden). And it is they who are the successful. (Aali Imran 3:104)
Hadith of prophet:
Whoever of you witnesses an evil, he should correct it by his hands if he can. If he cannot, he should correct it by his words. If he cannot do even that, the at least he should hate it in his heart. But this last resort is the manifestation of the weakest level of belief [ Tirmizi, Fitan, 11; Ibn Majah, Fitan, 20; Abu Dawud, Salat, 242]
its 3 years old and long dead...
I can't understand why people keep resurrecting old topics which wont make sense at this present time...
good luck for 2022 ????
the worst part about all of this is that Qatar wants the money from selling 'inappropirate' dresses and clothing in the malls. but they dont want you to wear them out??
its on huge contradiction and its getting so stupid that i feel its invading my human rights!!!
did anyone hear about the 1000QR fine men will have for wearing earings?? so so rediculous!??!!?
The malls say no shoulders showing or low cut tops. It doesn't specifically mention women. So does this mean that men can't wear singlets or anything with their shoulders uncovered?
what a nightmare i woke up this morning, and my uniform was change to a abaya lol
looks like the abaya tailoring dress shop is the in thing in Qatar, I might open one, lol I hope males to will be oblidge to wear abaya so my business will boom. lol what a nightmare here in Qatar
they got 'lambased' and then turned on us and the way we dress cause they got caught... what was there excuse... they were undercover in the clubs to watch what we were wearing?
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
the big sign you're referring to, is what started all this…
Dottie,
Try to go to the Pearl (Marriott).
Last friday, girls with skirts above the knee and shoulders exposed were not allowed to go in.
There was this big sign at the door with the new regulations, amongst them:
"NO QATARI FEMALES" (what a country this is!)
When I have the time, I'll post the photo here!
I've been in the W Hotel and Ramada this week and there certainly don't seem to be any dress restrictions being imposed. Lots of flesh on show.
People express themselves with words here...
People in the nightclubs wan to express themselves with the clothes they wear... or not wear....
Don think it is hep to show skin....
Don show...
If you wan guyz attention at any cost... show some skin...
If like me you too want some peace...
sit at home and don be to Night clubs ...
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
regardless of what people's perception are, telling people how they can dress or not is wrong. In islam we have been told to pass on knowledge, not to enforce it on one. SO by havin these restrictions on non-muslims is not fair let alone muslims.
But they are still selling it to muslims so why dont they enforce rules on alchohol too. Anyways this topic is debatable, and one should have the choice of wearing what they want.
N.B: Most of the abayas are so fitted so it really defeats the purpose of Hijab. Wearing fitted clothes that shows ur figure is just as bad as wearing short skirts
A Dancefloor with the hiphop and technoes playing and all babes in Abaya dancing..wow cant wait to watch that ..lol
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- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -
Some peoples perception of dressing tarty differ. In this logic should laws only be implemented on peoples personal taste? They shouldnt.
As for selling alchohol to muslim expats, this is in controlled environments and differs substantially.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I am not saying that a girl should go around butt naked, even this is against the law in the uk, but if a girl wears a vest that should be appropriate i.e not a tart, and besides why they selling alchohol in this country to muslim ex-pats, they shud stop that too. I know girls who were abayas and they are tarts.
Furthermore, i have seen a big difference since now and 2 years ago, as there are more women and less perviness. Islamically thats not the right way to do this. I come from a western country where i can drink or club if i wanted to, but knowing that i can do these things, doesnt make me want to do them.
Maz, there have to be some rules or some people would run around buck naked.
I dont really see how dressing a tart (should you choose to) be the real world and I dont think letting people wear what they want to will make "deprived" men see the light or anything else for that matter as the mens deprivaty has more to do with Islamic culture than freedom of dress.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
This is too much! A person should be free to wear what they want and do whatever they want. That way wise people will be open-minded and choose what they want to(hopefully). By having such laws make the person want to do these things undercover, and will never get use to the real world.
I noticed that many guys are quite deprived here, and by imposing such restrictions will not overcome this, and they will continue to act like this.
Being a muslim girl myself, i can agree that dressing inappropriately, drinking, clubbing, etc, is wrong for muslims. However, islamically it is one's person's choice on what path to take as it is their own sin.
sure, all would be "yes sir" people... how interesting the world would be!
Last night was in a Lebanese restaurant opposite Jarir Bookstore with my pal Baharani, we sat down ordered our Sheeshah and mint tea etc. There were lot of local girls and guys having their sheeshah and chatting away, typing on the laptop etc.
Suddenly an Abaya clad (showing her face) beautiful Qatari girl all alone walks in. My jaws dropped when I saw that as she walked you could clearly see legs well atleast to the knees as the abaya was one of those spilt in the front type.
So for me that incident was more seductive than a western girl wearing some hot pants with strap top with a few bits hanging out.
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HE WHO DARES WINS
I would like to thank you for a reply well done. A very comforting response to all that has been said. If only we all thought the same way.
... these girls are not curvy at all ! (i am exluding the pregnant lady from my comment ofcourse)
:-)
Brit I don't know many woman who dress like Cher on a daily basis. In Fact I don't know ANY women who have ever worn an outfit like that, especially not to that mall. However in the second picture I see women wearing their hair and makeup like that everywhere here.
Now here are outfits women might actually might wear here, now tell me, would you respect them?
... if a woman doesnt' wear anything and talk to you... what wud you feel?
:-)
Brit,
OK... you scared me for a while!
Of course we all have standards and tastes and privately and silently continuously assess the world we look at. But we don’t need to accuse those who do not fall into our acceptance criteria, right!?
No.. I was talking about first impressions.
I don't get it, brit?!
Do you mean Cher doesn't deserve respect just because she dresses the way she chooses to?!
then, most of the women are exception from your rule.... :)
Brit i never said there was NO exceptions to the rule my friend ;)
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
... i salute you man !
lol
Got to disagree with you there a little. We do make judgements based on image..
let all the women walk naked on earth and clean our thought and eyes.. howz that?
:-)
"its not the WOMEN that need to cover up its the MEN that need to clean up their thoughts."
ahhhh!!! very good point mr. man! 5 stars for you! *****
Huck you seem to be a frog in a well in these matters. I have seen many cleavages in my life time and trust me when i say i dont judge a woman's morals by the cleavage that i see. You might have been raised to believe that its only women who cover up from head to toe are to be respected, i wasnt brought up that way, i was brought up to respect a women regardless of what she wears.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
Smokey... specialized person?? HAHAHA! you are a joker! what are you specialized in? QL forum topics??
i think this whole pseudo thread is getting a little pseudo heated. Everyone has their own ass kising, arogant, pompous opinions on every topic. We as humans will never pseudo agree :p hheehehehe!
I for one am all for the new law. Go Qatar!
Smoke,
That takes education and a certain evolution of mentalities...
This will take time (a few generations) for certain people and they will no longer be here to see the progress of their own people!
Until then, in this part of the world, what one wears will continue to be an issue and the Big Brother's self proclaimed agents' business!
sad but the reality, for a while longer, in this region!
... you are talking in terms of 'what if/ what about....' things....
can you show me any single man who see cleavage and respect? its not possible
and for a woman? if a woman is self-respected, whey should she show her cleavage? for a healthy man, what the purpose of breasts? tell me? respect?
huckleberyfin, if a woman shows her cleavage does that make her a whore? Woman should be respected irrespective of what she wears. How hard is that to do? You think that if a woman covers up herself completely she's going to gain more respect in the eyes of a DRUNK man? How many mothers have come here to this site and complaint bout men who give them dirty looks even when they are with their children? You dont have to be in a bar or on the streets dressed up like a saint for bad things to happen to you, its not the WOMEN that need to cover up its the MEN that need to clean up their thoughts.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
...when a girl shows her cleavage off and demands respect !
FS,
thank you, I will as soon as possible.
all the best for you
:)
No one or anything is permenant in this world...
So if you dont like place..just leave soon..we never know what happens tomorrow...
FS,
Unfortunately, you can say that but it’s temporarily!
oh what a pity... you are not good enough to find a job in some other beautiful part of the world...
Are you by any chance kept hostage inthis place??
FS - lol...
ya I m acting like Pajju now :)
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
Qatar on its best!
Everything is fine, as long as I can, one day, leave this place forever! I truly feel sorry for those who don't have the option!
The world out there is so beautiful, if one has the option, why waste a life in the Big Brother's State?!!!
I'm sure soon or later the Qatar will be known for what really is!
Very interesting thoughts by people who posted here...
However, I get concerned by the statements which state that the local authorities are contradicting themselves by allowing bars, selling alcohol and not allowing type of dressing which some people feel should be allowed...
Haven’t the local authorities bent backwards to accommodate the requirements of us expatriates by allowing us the facilities and places to have our drink, by providing access to how and what we wear at certain places such as resorts etc when we want to have fun at beaches.. Do we really need to make them bent more and more in our never ending demands that we have been doing like this so it has to be like this only else we ridicule you and call u regressive etc. etc. I think they are far more progressive and accommodating than any of us expatriates. They have accommodated so much for us.. are we ready to accept even one thing from them... and I would never understand how someone or any country becomes more progressive by wearing or allowing to wear less clothes as I think clothes were invented to cover ourselves rather than use them to reveal ourselves “strategically” …
And I will never understand how the pleasure of having a drink is related to wearing certain type of clothes (revealing clothes per se as is being the point of discussion here), does the drink taste any different... and where is it written that when go to a bar one should be dressed in revealing clothes only. As I read on some other thread where someone said that when I go to a bar I would like to wear revealing dresses... now if I understand the meaning of revealing...it means divulge, expose, make public…. now when u are intentionally lending certain parts of your body for public viewing why then the same person comes back whining here that the men were looking at me as if they have never seen one before... come on ... this is too much of a double standard ... you are advised not to put yourself on show, still u fight back and put urself on show and then when it is seen u have problem with that too...
I just see it as much ado about nothing... we all very well knew before coming here what and how it is going to be and still tried our best to come here and once here we try to impose our thoughts ... come on guys take a chill pill.. enjoy what u have instead of spending time and effort in finding fault with anything and everything.. every place has its advantages and disadvantages... success and satisfaction lies in taking them in your stride and making the best out of them...
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The secret of charm is bullshit.
A K/CAT fight goin on... hmm..
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
Err. "notion of White Supremacy among the brown peoples of the world." wtf are you talking about?
Whatever, like i said we are not here to agree to what each ones has to say, you have your views on the subject and i have mine. You found them arrogant because you were generalizing in your mind that everyone that comes here to work must be puppets to those that hire us. And when you have nothing more to say you'll just end up saying something like "if you dont like it go back to your own country".
You can pick whatever side you want fact and the matter here is again...you cant break one law and enforce another one to abide by it.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
Shuaibkazi - :) Ya they do... I mean chicks do...
Seno - ??? whatever you found arrogant are not my words...
And I fail to understand... you were the one who wrote " I concur with tht Point" when Smoki Kat wrote those Arrogant and proud words... ????
Smoke - Foul Mouth Kata$$ - I don like kats ...
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
When did you send me a buddy request MissX? I usually ignore them.
OH MA, YOU JUST DIDN'T TYPE THAT. I explained how I came to think your post was pompous-ish and how it is pseudo based on the notion of White Supremacy among the brown peoples of the world. Which part was I an ass kisser. Or what..That I choose to be part of the pseudo conservative minority foreigners who does not feel offended with sanctions as small as the dress code for ladies in bars?
Different folks, different strokes. You found mine arrogant i found yours ass kissing :)
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
I hope you did just not call my opinions ass kissing ones.
Well it may sound arrogant to you Seny0rita but at least its not an ass kissing opinion i hold on the subject. I consider myself one of the "specialized people" hired to do THEIR job. I dont think i'm better than the Qatari who if given proper training and education could just as well do my job, perhaps even better, than I can. Neither am i too good to not be in my own country,just coz i'm working here offering my skills for the MONEY. My family has been in Qatar since 1976 and i've become accustomed to this way of living and life, something that my country cant offer me.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
I agree on your point with the inconsistency of certain things in bars and clubs but that one post regarding the jobs does read pompous in a couple of points. It doesnt come down to if we want the jobs (
Seny0rita - Thts true...
If they don want it to happen.. make it a rule...
Don't leave it on morality and choice of the person...
What I feel is wrong must be a normal thing for another...
Example - Pork.. Same goes with everything else..
Govt doesn want us to drive fast.... they don say... pls don drive fast..
They have put flash n stuff everywhere... and I mus say they are very innovative and creative in placing them these dayzz...
Same with Clothing... why not..
And as Smoke says.... you cannot break one rule and ask for another one not to be broken..
Don sell Liquor .. wht is this License thing ??? Why this ??
Don allow pork on this land...
Don allow music concerts... it is supposed to be banned..
No movies....
And actually no photos of the King in every office too... even this is not allowed as per the orthodox rules...
lol.... You can issue license to females for wearing wht they want at places like pub :)
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
Ashwin loves everyone equally :p
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
Beauty?
Really do you feel all expats are beautiful, how nice of you !
I am sure all of us are very happy with that statement
[img_assist|nid=96642|title=Prop|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=369]
I concur with that point, Smoke.
They have jobs sure but do they have their own people to do it? I dont think so. It doesnt come down to if WE want their jobs, it comes down to they have jobs but they want specialized people from certain countries to do it for them.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
I do not wish to make conflict with you ashwindoke, since I know you have always been levelheaded but that came out a little pompous-ish, don't you think? It's inevitable for you to say that because it is of your best interest (our best interest), I know. If they want our brains, accept the beauty and the difference in cultures that comes with it? But hey, they just might be saying at us, You want our jobs here then comply with the rules that goes with the territory.
I will respect and abide by the laws that say no PDA and no indecent dressing in public places like malls or parks. But when you say dress up modestly in a place that sells alcohol which is restricted in Islam is just a pile of bullcrap. You cant break one law and impose another to abide by it.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
lol you did not. You only just sent one then. I smell mischief.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
Did you send one Mr Paul? I generally only accept buddy requests from people who I talk to from time to time outside of the public forum.
Again ???
Yet another thread on what women should wear ????
Why is everyone coming up with dedicated threads...
People if you wanna talk bikini -
This is the link -
http://www.qatarliving.com/node/545921?page=1
If wanna discuss their office wear -
http://www.qatarliving.com/node/535629?page=1
And I think the Pub thing is goin on here...
I m little busy in office today..
But why you people impose each others line of thoughts on others...
Expats are not jus gonna come here earn and go back...
A person comes with his way of living and shall leave a impact.. whether you like it or not...
You don want so called American culture to spoil the so called Orthodox Islamic land.. Qatar..
No one is stopping the Qatari Govt. to not allow Americans or Europeans in ...
you want their Brains.. you ll have to accept their beauty... and their way of living..
Same is true for all nationalities...
India included...
not being a racist...
Today I have to really finish some stuff in office..
Else would have had continued discussing yet another thread....
as Happy Happy says.. rt now whole QL is on Women oriented threads.. :)
Nothing more interests us though :)
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Reality is a Illusion Caused Due to Deficiency of Alcohol
.
Goodness..
I was trying to find the right reasoning to why an Islamic country like Qatar would be capable of sanctioning Dress Codes and why we the foreigners should respect and abide by it.
Look, I did not say I PERSONALLY have a problem with ladies showing off their humps in clubs, Smoke. I am a woman in my mid twenties, I am fit and I have no insecurities with my body whatsoever, SO don't think I have underlying personal reasons for defending this whole "cover up in bars" commotion by the conservative muslims. I am not a muslim either so don't think I had a vote in that dress code policy..again, I was simply trying to understand where the Qataris are coming from with all this for the purpose of discussion.
.. the law is justified...
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
ooh I was waiting for Gypsy to weigh in. Even though I am mortally offended you did not accept my buddy request :/
But what really is the image they want? If 80% of the people are foreigners and would like a relaxed law, and a portion of locals make use of those same relaxed laws, and another portion of the locals, not making use of them, but have no problem with foreigners doing so. How many people really want the strict laws enforced?
It's like a sham image that only a handful (relative to the population) want, and are fighting a losing battle because the masses just don't want it.
I think the issue is the Guidebooks suggest we dress modestly, but there are no laws saying we have to. A lot of people are going to say "Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll wear what I want" And there's nothing (besides stares and some harrassment) to say that they can't.
If you dont' want people to wear mini skirts pass an enforceable law saying NO MINISKIRTS, otherwise, deal with it.
Seny0rita, what do you mean by saying MEN should not be worried about this as it only concerns WOMEN? I was not talking from a MAN'S point of view, rather in general about this dress code imposed on women who go to clubs and bars. Neither did i say anything about those certain few muslims who drink in those bars represent the entire country. Conservative muslims wont be seen in bars, and those muslims in turn wont know what the eff happens in bars or wont be offended by seeing womens cleavages or thighs.
As a guy i too do have a problem with dress code imposed on MEN to dress up formally, no sport shoes no shorts whatever. Back home i can go walk into a bar, club restaurant wearing a sleevless t-shirt and shorts and no one would give a crap. I'm paying money to go to these bars i dont want to be told what to wear or to dress up like i'm going to a freaking OFFICE. I dont want to be dancing in a club with an office shirt, formal pants and church shoes.
Further more what is YOUR problem if women want to show off their body at a club in Qatar or say anywhere else in the world would you have a problem? You can dress up like a nun if you like.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
Oh my last posts were for Smokey. Anyway, I just want to make that clear.
Hmm, again MissX, here you are. I beg too disagree. I quote, "The 'image' of the country is a complete fabrication when it is almost entirely made up of foreigners who are forced to conform."
Yeah it is a fact that the Qataris are the minority, so? I ask you this, does that give you, the foreigner in their own country to deprive them of the 'image' they want? It's like you saying, "Hey you do not have to impose these sanctions..because we're against it, and it's pointless anyway because we make you your country's majority".
There is a difference in COMPLIANCE and INTERNALIZATION in a society where we do not really belong in.
The laws of the country that do not deem it illegal to wear a miniskirt, or bare your shoulders.
MissX, as I said, I am not sure what guise of freedom you were "lured" here under. Who ensured you that this wasnt a more conservative country than your own? What guide book or research material did you read before you came here telling you that dressing however you like is alright?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
lol Mr Paul. Go try and polish that turd you were talking about.
imagining you two, in bikinis, mud wrestling whilst debating this topic...
:D
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
Yeah I agree it was a good discussion, thanks Seny0rita. Your arguments are well written and if we all had the same views, then what fun would that be, and no one would ever learn anything new.
I know exactly the effin shit I am talking about.
These muslims you know and see in public who drink and committ haram does not automatically represent the majority of conservative muslims of the society nor the policies or rules implemented by the country as a whole.
By the way, why do you seem so worried. This is a matter concerning the ladies. Scared that you won't be able see humps in bars while you get tipsy, in the future, anymore? Relax, I doubt that this rule (if ever to be a legal decree to be sanctioned) would be strictly imposed for a very long time. I just got caught on this debate because of MissX's principle of radicality and extreme liberalism. Doggone, I have things to do. Think whatever you want to think, you're a man..for you, women covering up in bars will never ever have a good side to it. To MissX, I understand your views I, however, beg to disagree to most of them. Nonetheless, I give respects for having a good discussion of indifferences with you.
Amoud and I share the same stance, I was just about to say..not because the majority are foreigners (missX) and that Qatar is going under heavy globalization (smoke's point) does'nt necessarily mean they should fold into the West's certain beliefs and standards which are opposite of their own.
No, I completely agree with that. I have absolutely no problem with people wearing Abaya's or covering their hair if they choose to do it. All I am saying is for that same respect of choice of clothing to be given to foreigners since they were lured there under that guise of freedom.
Miss it will come back to the same old statement. No one is really forced to do anything. We all did our research before coming, knew it was an islamic country, the guidebooks tell us all to dress modestly and such.
Just because the country is mostly foreigners doesnt mean that the locals should conform to expat standards either. ____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
The 'image' of the country is a complete fabrication when it is almost entirely made up of foreigners who are forced to conform.
An old woman can put on as much makeup as she likes. but she will still be old.
The establishments you've stated is part of civilization. Are you saying they should accept having the foreign women to dress sleazily just because they eat your fastfood or sleep in the same hotel brand you have back home?
You say they should stay at home? Are you saying Qatar should implement a curfew to all conservative muslims of the country because the non-locals are wearing whatever the hell they want in these bars come dawn. I'm being sarcastic. It's not about if the Emir is watching you in these bars when you go out. Again, sarcastically. It's about trying to respect the locals and how they want to keep the image of the country.
I don't have a problem with them wanting to keep some sense of cultural preservation, but I do not understand that making people who are foreigners-outsiders conform, is an authentic preservation of culture. It's an attempt at mimicking it, but anyone can see that it is forced.
And what I also do not agree with, is luring people with the perception of relaxed customs, and then trying to gain them back once they have arrived.
Without trying to encourage criticism for the Western world here, it's like they sold their soul to the devil for a better place to live, and are now trying to buy it back.
hehe Mr. Paul sometimes the KAT scratches too :) i think i'll go for a smoke now to let off some steam.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
outburst like that :D
Oh, and I agree with all yer just said.
Hit the nail on the head .
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
Girls fight here.... hurrayyyyy!
Culture? Traditions? wtf are you people talking about? You people think about Qatari culture and traditions only when you see a woman showing off her shoulders and legs? Where are your Qatari cultures when it comes to opening PUBS and selling alcohol to the very same Qatari's sitting in Ramada in their THOBES? Where are your traditions when you travel abroad to other countries and wear those very same short skirts and cleavage showing tops at the disc's? Dont give me this bullshit that westerners are trying to impose their culture on you people, when in fact you have ALREADY accepted their ways and call it "progressing" or "development" Building 5 star hotels, selling booze, eating your Mc Donalds and KFC's. You cannot tell people WHAT to wear at a freaking club. We go there to enjoy ourselves, you people who get "offended" by what others wear in a pub should be sitting at home and not be seen in a bloody pub in the first place.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~SMoKE~[]_
Come on, isn't that what they're doing by having clubs, bars and concerts. What kind of more relaxing would you want? They gave in with the need for the existence of bars for the foreigners in the country. You do not see that? Here you are whining on and on, questioning them with such restrictions. Such as how you can't wear short skirts in bars or do public displays of affection??
And yes, I do know that hardly nobody from the western world would really want to live in a conservative country..but is it also right for you, an outsider to come here for work but instead, mock and poke their cultures and customs. Which brings me to my first point that I have presented you, I completely disagree with your propaganda of pushing the limits/liberation. It is not our role to bend the cultures of this country. Let the Qataris decide on how and when to change..if they will ever change. This is their culture, don't come and bend it backwards. Yes, we are ranting about the freedom of choice but please do not forget that we're in a land not of ours, a culture that we did not grow up in..Respect it. However truth or bull you may want to say, we are foreigners --outsiders. It is not our call to liberate what we deem is necessary as to something so small like women's attire.
They were asking for compliance, not internalization.
They way I see it, you are too proud to follow the simple rules of this country. You go here for perhaps a better employment and yet here you propaganding such attempts of radical change in the society simply because you just defy to wear something more appropriate for the locals. You see, they're trying to meet half way with the foreigners. How could you be so radical and still find fault in their efforts to keep some sense of their cultural preservation in a soceity of non-locals who make up almost the nation's population.
Miss, you still dont understand. Exposing the thigh in Islam is actually Haram. Do you think that by letting a bunch of people walk around half naked you will desensitize these people so they will say "Hey, you know even though the Quran tells us this is wrong it aint so bad"?
They generally dont bother with non-muslims and what they are wearing but perhaps as folks such as yourself feel it may be their duty to expose the locals to such they have decided it is going too far.
As Senorita said, not our place to bend the rules in our host country, no matter how trivial or silly we feel they are.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
No I was not trying to stir anything. I was attempting to clarify what you were asking.
There is no large scale policy that is compromised by the attempt to preserve tradition, for two simple reasons. If the traditions were important enough to them, they would not create a policy that can be compromised by their traditions. And secondly, almost all large scale policies and things they have implemented, do require them to relax their customs and traditions. So if all major advancements and progression seems to require a loosening up of customs and traditions, then why are they trying to backtrack now?
You would not see any foreigners in Qatar, had they not relaxed their rules about traditional customs such as dress etc. So they have a choice, keep their customs relaxed and enjoy the benefits that expats bring. Or bring back the rules that enforce their traditions and watch the expats dwindle and leave. The more they relax their customs, the more interest Qatar will get from outside professionals and thus the greater choice of professionals to lead them into a modern, economically rich country. You must realise that most people do not want to live in Muslim based countries because of their preservation of tradition and custom. An unoffical compromise was made that expats do not have to necessarily abide by all strict rules regarding tradition, yet if locals want to stick to their traditional values, then they are able to do so. But to try and backtrack and enforce it on to the people who came because they would not be forced to conform, is not a particularly smart decision.
I'll just quote myself here.."Give me an example that they have made a policy that was entirely compromised because they have conservative views on their customs and the strive on the preservation of their traditions."
Stress on the word Compromised.
It is simply off base to ask you a policy implemented based on preservation of customs. I hope you're not purposely trying to stir up something here. When I said policy...I thought it was understandable that it's the ones that are of large scale policies because that's the premise you kept on insisting on.
This is not the place nor era to relive the way the hippies once shaped the societies of certain nations. No, their way of clothing and how they percieve it, is one of their cultural norm. To remove all stigma attached to clothing? The Middle East is not the West, and Islam can never be Protestantism. You get my point.
You cannot persuade them to think PDA is acceptable nor us, the foreigner's meaning to what is appropriate clothing can be likewise acceptable to them. The same reason they cannot lead me to believe that eloping with my cousin is not immoral. You, however, someone who is part of a certain cultural norm but defies it, thus have a case of social stigma. Again, we are the outsiders..As I stress where i'm coming from, it is not our call to liberate what we deem is necessary as to something so small like women's attire. And again, this is not the place nor era to relive the way the hippies once shaped the societies of certain nations.
lol.
I was asking if you MEANT life or death policies when you asked for an example.
You asked for me to give you an example of a policy that was implemented because of preservation of customs, and I was questioning if you meant to elaborate on that request since this entire topic is based on a policy that was implemented due to the preservation of a custom. I figured you wouldn't be asking me to give you an example when the example is staring you in the face.
Now you're on life and death policies in regards to dress rules and such??
Where are you getting these things..You have serious issues on making out of the subject arguements taken from simple contexts.
Okay, to answer your insignificant question..More like, their economic and foreign policies were compromised because
-they do not let us hold hands in public
-or because we ladies are prohibited from showing our cleavage or thighs
-or because they have sword fighting show in their social events...
Such as those things examples.
Did you mean to ask for an example of a life or death policy that was compromised because of their views on on their customs and preservation of their traditions?
Because if you mean just a simple non life or death example, well this whole topic is based around one.
I stated the fact that such radical movements in the past have shaped societies into what they are today. Which part of that did I put a negative connotation on being a hippy?
About your issues in decision making, I don't think Qatar's views on conservatism and preservation of customs is not the platform or basis of how they value human lives. If you ask me, they're two different things for obvious reasons. Why do you keep connecting the society's customs (by the way we were just talking about dress rules here and somehow you've connected that to a large scale nation governance) with the government policies?
I leave you with this, let not yourself be confused with how this country may seem incapable of running a prosperous nation just because they have conservative views on clothing or the way people should carry themselves in public. Two seperate entities. Give me an example that they have made a policy that was entirely compromised because they have conservative views on their customs and the strive on the preservation of their traditions. Then maybe I could stop rebutting you and put an end to this discussion of how you think the dress rules may affect large scale issues such as government policies.
Yes, they are completely capable of making decisions about large scale issues. But what would those decisions be? Would they too put their customs and tradition above human lives, because of the value and importance they seem to put on these traditions and customs?
And you say 'hippy' with such negative connotations. Yet their radical movement brought attention across the globe to creating sustainable energy, tolerance, promoting inter-racial peace, and charity to others. Not entirely despicable causes.
Do not question. Yes, they could make decisions about large scale issues. Not just because they give importance to the way of clothing does not mean they have no means or the mind to delve into serious subjects such as foreign or economic policies. I think we all know Qatar is a thriving country, there's no confusion there. Their stand on clothing is not just a stand on morals but is due to preserving their customs and having the foreigners to respect this. Let not yourself be confused with how this country may seem incapable of running a prosperous nation just because they have conservative views on clothing or the way people should carry themselves in public.
I understand, using your analogy, cleaning your bag doesn't mean you can't also clean your house. But I was questioning (not accusing) that if you decided in your cleaning process that having an interior pockets zip open or closed was an incredibly important aspect of the cleaning process of your handbag, what are your priorities while you are cleaning your house going to be like? Will you put the importance of leaving a door open or not, over the importance of clothes laying on the floor.
Liken it to the situation in Israel/Palestine, where I think the most important thing is to stop deaths, pain & suffering on both sides. Whereas someone else may think the most important thing is to recognise that Jerusalum is entirely part of Israel, and has no Palestinian influence. Obviously they believe their tradition, culture and religion are more important than deaths and suffering of others, so that is what they take into consideration when deciding how they should proceed. So one has to question whether people who think clothes are extremely important, the decisions they would make about larger issues, and what type of priorities they would consider first.
In rebuttal of your last paragraph, implementing a Rule on clothing now (however small it seems to be compared to ecomonic policies) does not mean it is and will only be their only focus. Cleaning my bag today does not mean I cannot clean my whole whouse tomorrow. Do you see what I mean? Moreover, their customs in clothing is not something they take lightly --stress on customs. This is not one of those trivial things in a society which you think can be subjective.
I agree, what we do and do not wear is completely trivial. But the point is that in Muslim countries obviously people don't. It's actually considered an important issue, so much so that we have hundreds of topics dedicated to it. The pushing of the boundaries of clothing may seem like an attempt to be rebellious, but it is actually an attempt to remove all stigma attached to clothing.
It's all well & good to say focus on more important issues like the Palestine and Israel conflict (which I completely agree with), but when their priorities are focussed on clothing, it makes you wonder what approach they would take if it's those sorts of things that are important to them. You have to make trivial things like clothing into a non-issue first, and you don't do this by making a law about the importance of them, you make things a non-issue by removing the meaning attached to them.
To the posters before me..Who are we to say that Qatar needs that Change? MissX, I completely disagree with your propaganda of pushing the limits/liberation. It is not our role to bend the cultures of this country. Let the Qataris decide on how and when to change..if they will ever change. This is their culture, don't come and bend it backwards. Yes, we are ranting about the freedom of choice (freakin' girls and men alike whining about the codes of beeing seen/what to be seen in), but please do not forget that we're in a land not of ours, a culture that we did not grow up in..Respect it. However truth or bull you may want to say, we are foreigners --outsiders. It is not our call to liberate what we deem is necessary as to something so small like women's attire. Unless you're in a call to shake things up between the Isrealites and the Palestinians, and the Arab's role in it..well then let's talk about invoking change in these cultures and nations. For something small as what to wear..Let us just respect their rules to be implemented in their OWN country and for us foreigners to stop the mockery in Qatar, it's ways, traditions, it's women and their culture.
If it is true about this new policy on clothing to be implemented on an emiratewide scale, then so be it. For me it's all simple. Rule of thumb, say me -- I do not let my guests wear their shoes in my house, I prohibit it..And so it's implemented. It's my home..My rules. Their country. Respect it.
White linen see through pants should be illegal, especially on men *yekh*
Seriously, if you are going to wear white linen, please have the common sense not to wear black polka dot knickers underneath. ____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I saw an american i guess (no offence to americans intended please dont bomb my country!)
she was wearing a see through black top, and her figure wasnt very pleasing to the eyes either
I nearly fell down the escalator in Landmark yesterday afternoon, as coming down the down side opposite me, was a woman in white linen see through shorts, tiny vest, high heels, struggling with shopping (late forties I guess)- she looked like a hooker and not a well paid one either. I would have been offended if I had been in the UK
So bring on the rules in the Malls for god's sake! But only if the people doing the wrist slapping will pick up the hideous crimes against fashion and decency....and not some poor bloke with his shirt undone, or a harrassed mum in teeshirt and jeans. Having my shoulders on display is not offensive, having my shoulders on display with my knockers swinging away also on display..........IS! I see a poster campaign idea there! LOL
Lets go nude, there isnt any pushing of limits after that,
Or is there ?, nezt thing you know people are tearing of their skins to really push the limits, just as we have seen with body piercings lately
[img_assist|nid=96642|title=Prop|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=369]
...coming next is the specs for the underwear.
Then all of us who don't agree can go take a walk...:)
Nothing is impossible in thiese crazy lands...
Life is Beautiful...Indeed!
[img_assist|nid=96642|title=Prop|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=369]
MR PAUL, fully covered is their religion. And yes, in foreign countries that lack respect for religions aren't adapting. Personally, I'm not for a full face cover - but who am I to say anything? Foreign countries aren't hiring girls who have chosen to wear the hijab. They are rejected from their society. My friends got beaten up in England and the US for wearing their hijab. Is that fair?
So don't argue dress code in Qatar because its the least they can do. Plus you are a guy and going on about this. How would this have any impact on you?
..or the Liberal image was a mask to win the Olympic bid?
Life is Beautiful...Indeed!
We are who we are, people don't change...
I'm all for modernization in the society. Westerners/others can wear what they like. However, we as Qataris want to preserve our culture & continue wearing our national dress (whether it's thob & ghutra for men or abbay for women)
Do you realise that every person who does not wear an Abaya would be considered "half-dressed" by a person who lived in the 1500's and beyond. Women in pants were offensive, as was showing wrists and ankles etc. Perception of what is acceptable changes as people push the limits. Always has done.
fully covered and expecting that society to adapt to their ways.
Respect swings both ways remember.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
So MissX is suggesting that more people should walk around half dressed for the society to accept and adapt to the change? That is lame.
I came across this site and thought maybe someone would be interested in reading its content http://answering-islam.com/cover_up.htm .
That's exactly my point actually. It's a moral standard. And moral standards are subjective, even to Islamic people. If people become accustomed to seeing something and it becomes familiar to them, they will no longer feel offense from seeing it after a while.
Put 1 naked person in a room full of clothed people, and they will be stared at. Make everyone naked, and nakedness will no longer be an issue, even to those same people who were offended by the 1 naked person.
MissX you are missing the point. Islamically showing the thighs is considered "intimate" nakedness. Your concept of clothing is reaching a bit as even in warmer climates nakedness is not permitted as a moral standard, not out of necessity.
Walking in downtown New York bare breast is illegal, even in summer when it is upward of 35 degress. I am sure in this weather one could walk naked without the necessity of clothing but that doesnt justify it does it?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Clothes were developed as a means of practicality, not to hide our nakedness. We don't grow fur, so in colder area's we had to develop a means to keep ourselves warm. I guess the better you were at hunting etc, the more skins you were able to wear. Therefore the more 'clothes' you wore became a symbol of wealth and prosperity. Tribes that still have bare breasted women probably never developed the need for extra coverings because they live in warm climates.
And yes they would become accustomed to seeing miniskirts if they were worn abundance, even if it was against their religion. Just like people got accustomed to women not wearing hijab, showing their ankles, etc etc.
MissX, people here can be offended by mini skirts as in Islam the legs above the knees are considered Awrah, which is required to be covered, not because they havent seen it enough to be accustom to it.
Bare breast subathing is common in europe but for the most part still illegal in the US except for designated beaches. Bare breasts are common in a lot of South American jungle tribes also. If tribal women are walking around bare breast you can argue that they are not as civilized as the developed world right? _____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I did not mean to confuse people by using big words lol.
My point is, people decide what is offensive for themselves. It's a personal opinion and all relative. Therefore if you find mini skirts and bare legs offensive, then don't wear mini skirts and bare your legs. But you can't try and argue that miniskirts and bare legs are offensive in general and that no one should wear them in public, because in reality mini skirts do not harm anyone.
If a very large group of people came to Qatar and walked around in public completely naked for a few years and people became accustomed to seeing them, however never really accepting them. I highly doubt anyone would feel offense at miniskirts any longer. Like I said, it's all relative, and the reason people do find miniskirts offensive still is because they haven't been exposed to them very often, not because they are actually offensive.
Were you pertaining about the last post before you, MissX? I don't think Xena told the young girl that showing her shoulders is offensive, i think she stated, "..so she wouldn't feel awkward".
By the way, MissX, you read like a true hippie with your last sentence. No pun intended.
Point is, like what you've stated early on in this thread, in contrast --I also can't believe the great vast wide openness of your mind (as my peers would say, the tree hugging freedom fighters). As much as I would like to agree with what you said that the "appropriate" dressing standards is a judgment of one's own that has the society as it's level ground is also infact unnecessarily determind by it, I think the point of discussion is not what one's freedom of choice is determined by, rather what borders it.
And I quote, "What is and what is not considered morally offensive is always in a state of flux, so anyone who attempts to say something is acceptable, and some things are not, is only showing their ignorance on the subject of morals."
Someone who attempts to say something is acceptable and some are not is not showing their ignorance on the subject of morals. You confuse by using big words, but it's all so simple, really. Morals is not a subject of either or, neither it is of black or white. I believe that the subject of morality will always be one that is of conradiction but I do not think that being in the state of flux has anything with, again as I state and excuse me for the redundancy --the contradictories of morality.
I think I see where you're coming from as I quote your own words, "You only believe it is, because you have been led to believe it is".
A woman's shoulders are not offensive. Pandering to that notion by continuing to cover them will only reinforce the belief.
The first time I came here in 2005, I made a big mistake of wearing a strappy top when I walked into the airport... Nothing like walking through Doha Airport arrivals hall at 10.30 at night to put you in your place.
Its the one thing that sits in my mind whenever I see women dressed like that - I never did it again - My second time over, I met a family on the plane with a young daughter, and remembering how I felt I advised her to please cover her shoulders so she wouldn't feel awkward when she got into Doha - once outside in the carpark, her mom came up to me and thanked me for the warning as this was their first trip here, and they weren't aware of the customs.
Like I mentioned earlier, I don't wear revealing clothes, but even sometimes I feel uncomfortable in my t-shirt that may be a bit on the tight side. Nothing that a pashmina I keep in my car cannot sort though:-)
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
Xena,
I've met a lot of people throughout my lifetime (yes lifetime) and I know as a fact that most do not agree with what happens and are conservative people in their own way.
What I cannot stand is that disrespect to the locals and the country - that's it.
I lurve lookin at all the beautiful, uncovered Bahraini ladies........Mmmmmmmn
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
a few weeks ago.... I couldn't believe she had the cheek (please excuse the pun) to walk into the hotel with a tiny pair of shorts and a slinky top... See, even westerners complain about the dress codes:-)
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
I went to W hotel two nights ago and I saw a lady that was half dressed. No one said anything to her. And she was at the entrance waiting for the car.
Amoud, sadly this attitude is prevalent everywhere, but probably especially in the ME. But security threat?? How so?
will refrain from posting in future;-)
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
It may be that women were being harrassed as sadly a woman who is dressed a bit tarty can be construed as a tart. Picking out women randomly at the bouncers discretion can cause a whole heap of problems so a blanket rule has been implemented.
Just a thought.... and add to that some of the attitudes here that if a woman is dressed a certain way in a certain place she may be asking for it.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
genesis - please explain further. What incident - and i agree with Chelsea. How can a short skirt, bare shoulders, etc consitute a security threat???
MR. PAUL, YES SIR!!
QAWS Commandos....And she takes no crap.
:P
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
Security? Sorry and maybe I'm being blonde here. What security risk involves short skirts?
www.qaws.org
Tell me how does God dress in heaven?
i think you're whining, just for the sake of whining!The case here has nothing to do with religion (it's a bar, they could have closed down the place if they suddenly had a change of heart & decided to go all Saudi).As you're much aware, more & more bars and lounges are expected to be open in the next few years. From what i heard, MOI issued that circulation based on an incident-so the case here is security.
You ask how I construe this as wrong. If you read the whole thread you can read why I think it's wrong. 1 poster wrote that Qatar does not pretend to tolerate things. So why is there alcohol here then, why do female tennis players/athletes who perform here show their legs, arms etc? I think in many ways Qatar has made a big effort to appear more tolerant. However my feeling is that this is a step backward. Only small minded people can believe that all women who show their legs or arms is a tart, but this has been insinuated by many in this thread. I have Qatari friends & they understand that dressing in an abaya or covering up is not in my culture. Even though at work, shopping etc, I dress conservatively, occasionally I do like to wear slightly more revealing clothes when in a bar. I have been in Qatar a long time & this has never been a problem. It people are so offended it amazes me they can even bear to turn on the tv as many scantily dressed ladies on their. The only people who could be offended are those people who go the bars & they would clearly be hypocrites.
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
As has been mentioned before - if you're offended by what's being worn in a club then you probably shouldn't be there in the first place.
Can we distinguish between bars and clubs - I agree that maybe some of the bars would like a dress code but the clubs (Cloud Nyn & Qube) are really not the kind of place where they will enforce these rules. And before everyone jumps down my throat and without meaning
to be offensive - how many of you have actually been to Cloud Nyn? If you've been you'll know what I mean. Even with a dress code it's still sleazy!!
There is no question over the malls and restaurants being somewhere to dress conservatively (but still look nice!) but telling a guy to do up his top button on a shirt is just stupid.
On another note - I would love to see what would happen if everyone who has ever complained about something in Qatar left..... I complain daily about the way animals are treated here. Yes I hate it but no I'm not leaving. If all the QAWS people left there would be no-one in Qatar to do what we do.
Oh well.... My tuppence (again).
www.qaws.org
you get nowhere by being submissive and a walkover;-)
Probably why I am always in trouble:-)
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
hehehe Don't bother yourself over it. We are just discussing the subject that was addressed. No one is asking you to leave. If you do, I'll haunt you and bring you back. Take it easy, Qatar is my home - and you are more than welcome to enjoy it.
rules and regulations like this, don't faze me in the least. I am the last person to wear anything revealing, and I can count on my 1 hand how many times I have been to bars/nightclubs in this country.... so really its no skin of my nose... however....
I do think, that if Qatar intended on bringing regulations in like these, they should have been strict about it from the start. Its no good 'closing the door once the horse has bolted'...
If locals have been insulted by the way women dress, I can understand, I have been insulted by how some women dress - so I do get it... but come on, in bars/nightlights - as has been said previously, there are certain 'dress codes' to bar/nightclubs:-)
However, bars/nightclubs are not frequented by locals - so live and let live, but once they step outside, then by all means take them to task...
Actually Amoud, it could be argued, that due to Qatar's lengthy silence on the matter, they had made a statement on not really caring - but because a few locals (heaven knows where they saw scantily clad ladies in bars) complained, they figured it was time to voice their opinion...
Actually you gotta love it.... its almost like an election trick.... the goverment throwing bones over small issues, so the masses forget the big ones:-)
I love Qatar! (and there is no sarcasm in my words either)
Now if what I have posted here makes you think I am not happy here, and I can leave, then that's your problem - What it is, is my input to hopefully making Qatar a better country - but again - how you take it - is your problem.
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
I'm not putting anything into your mouth.
I'm just saying that that even as just an example is irrelevant.
Yes we all complain all the time, but we don't have to swear, curse and disrespect each and every time. And on a public forum?
And I'm really not having any attitude. Its just how I express my thoughts. So don't take it personal.
Difference is Xena is that the west brags its tolerance and religious freedom, whereas here in Qatar such a thing was never insinuated. Perhaps this is why it grabs more attention in the West.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I was making a statement about how people complain everywhere... Don't put words into my mouth.
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
Amoud said it. You cannot compare the two.
You can show that you are feminine without offence anyone around, and show your shoulders do not offend to anyone. Nightclubs is a nightclubs, if you have to cover to get inside, well is it nightclub? At the end, Is it going to make any difference?
What is next? You have to use a special suit to visit the pool?
The issue here is, if Qatar wants to be like Saudi, that is ok, but let’s make it clear. But if there is no clear framework for this issue you find a lot of confusion around the nightclubs. And honestly it is very uncomfortable.
Just issuea a clear rule and the people can decide if they want to stay or leave. And them, you see how Doha is going to change.
You can show that you are feminine without offence anyone around, and show your shoulders do not offend to anyone. Nightclubs is a nightclubs, if you have to cover to get inside, well is it nightclub? At the end, Is it going to make any difference?
What is next? You have to use a special suit to visit the pool?
The issue here is, if Qatar wants to be like Saudi, that is ok, but let’s make it clear. But if there is no clear framework for this issue you find a lot of confusion around the nightclubs. And honestly it is very uncomfortable.
Just issuea a clear rule and the people can decide if they want to stay or leave. And them, you see how Doha is going to change.
get across is how people all over the world complain about things, but we don't tell those in our countries if they don't like it leave... not trying to spark a cultural or religious debate here...
Just trying to make it known that just because we might complain about things, doesn't mean we hate it here and want to leave...
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
Bambino, just curious, how do you construe this as being something wrong?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I'm bored of that old chestnut too: ''If you don't like it then leave''. There's a big difference between hating a place & calling it a **** hole and generally enjoying the place, but speaking up when we see something as worng. Maybe those people who don't like to hear complaints & differing opinions should not be reading a discussion forum in the first place!
Xena while I tend to agree the points you raised are religious discrimination rather than a freedom of personal style taste.
Just as women baring their arms and legs are not permitted into hotels muslim women are also not permitted to enter (even before disco time) with hijab. ____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
the same droning remark of "if you don't like it leave" gets extremely boring after a while.... I am sure most people are very aware that if they don't like it they can... They don't need to be reminded at every turn... and I have said this once before... Just because people complain about things, doesn't mean they are unhappy, they are just gripping, as anyone would do, even in their own countries... Wanna tell me that Qataris don't go to other countries and complain about things they don't like there?
What about the muslims in other countries that are the first to complain when they aren't allowed into banks with 'head covers' on? Or when teachers aren't allowed to cover their faces at school? Their plights are reported and muslims all over the world feel angry.
You see, it can go both ways... so please don't give me attitude about being grateful to be here - we are, but as we are contributing to this economy too, which most people seem to forget, we are also intitled to our opinions.
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
In the thread on EW that I posted the link to here, I was actually told by one new expat that if I didn't like to respect the culture, I should hop on the first plane out of Doha and give someone our 'place' here.......
Thats a red rag to a bull. I do respect where I live, I did the whole Saudi experience for 4 years, didn't get my legs rapped once by a man with a stick! lol. We have been here 4 years. I DON'T go to malls or lunch with my ass or boobs on display...I have more respect for myself than that. My answer to the newbie was that, we aren't told about this stuff, the goal posts change, we all know that rules change here on a daily basis.
Pitstop, we would leave if we could...but my son has his final two years of IB to finish. At one of the best schools I've seen or that either of my two have been to, in all honesty. He is happy there, his grades are fantastic and his teachers are brilliant.
My daughter went to Doha College, now that was so bloody similar to a comprehensive in the UK I couldnt believe it. Dhahran British Grammar school put it to shame. Actually I love Qatar, I do really like the people, not one bad experience, although I don't include the driving, otherwise I'd always be moaning. But it's been 4 years, and in that time, we have seen it change. Bahrain is changing too, so as someone said in an earlier post, this looks to be part of something bigger to me as well.
As for that newbie on EW, I know her type, met many in KSA and here. I shall send her a doily to serve her arabic coffee on to her one 'local' friend because she's at one with the culture. Give me a small break.
*now hunting through saudi memorabilia for the abaya
I don't have any objections to a dress code. What I mind is the subjectivity and inconsistency in the enforcement of such a code. Let me just suggest that as per usual the person who is making the decisions is acting WAY above his/her pay grade.
Mandi
I say that all the time. If you don't like it here, just leave. I once was standing at the Landmark by the Commercial Bank waiting for it to open and I heard this American lady talking on the phone. Not that I was interested in her conversation, but her phone rang and when she answered, she continued by saying, "ya I'm still in the sh*t hole Qatar." -- I couldn't just hear that and stay quiet so I made sure she wasn't welcome in Qatar which was hosting her and surely she was making a lot of money here - as that would be the ONLY reason why any sane person would stay in Qatar (as foreigners always say) -- At least respect the country and its traditions and culture. It wouldn't be Qatar if we were like any other country.
To be honest, I always ask people to leave -- why complain and moan and whine when you are so bothered? Just pick up and LEAVE! But that again is my personal opinion.
And PM, LOL no I missed that one. I had class with a few girls that were over the top with how sleazy they dressed. I am still praying that a dress code is enforced on campus.
Let us whine a litle please :)
forum, but z_zied, please b*gger off with your words of wisdom.... your comment is boring and been used to death... we are entitled to our opinion... your post is not an opinion, but a stupid boring retort, that everone is sick of hearing...
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
They can still leave the country ....
someone, pulled her pants up and said: "Bless your heart, dear; you must not realize you have half your a*s hanging out!" lol
I refuse to drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Dottie, smoking is forbidden in malls, but ALL the guys that sit at the coffee shops there smoke. There is a sign saying no smoking - but they don't care. It is the waiters duty to ask them to refrain. Some have the courage to. Some got beaten up for doing just that. So it really depends on the person speaking. It really isn't personal in my opinion. I am sort of glad that the dress code is becoming an issue - I hope they do that in school, as we see a lot of cracks and boobs - and it isn't a nice scene.
OK now this is getting ridiculous - hear this! My friend, her husband and two young kids were having lunch in Chillis in The Mall yesterday lunchtime. Her husband, a 50-something guy was wearing a short-sleeved open-necked shirt and trousers - pretty normal right? BUT a waitress told him he had to fasten his top two buttons, coz he was dressed inappropriately. I kid you not!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He tried to make her see sense, pointing out a young lady who was wearing a vest top but to no avail. Needless to say, he left a very angry man, and will NOT be eating in Chillis again any time soon. Crazy.
I was having lunch in the restaurant next door, Biella, and there was a table of guys, most probably Brits, wearing (short) shorts and wife-beaters, and nothing was said to them. Doha has gone mad.
I don't mind Muslims going into bars at all, nor do I care if they have a beer. That is up to them.
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
What do Muslims have anything to do with it?
I think Oryx I said in THEIR eyes not mine. As I don't know you why would you think I would call you a tart? Please read threads carefully.
I agree with posters here who talk about people who go about dressed totally inapropiatly for ANYWHERE let alone an Islamic coountry. They should stop that before anything else.
Somebody else has mentioned how 'sexy' a lady looked whilst 'covered'. Just goes to show the more flesh women reveal the more it can actually be a turn off.
I was told by one of the Mums at school today, and this could be hearsay, this was all because a few Qatari ladies where offended by what they saw in a nightclub.
If this is true, good for those girls being in a nighclub. However, don't moan about what you see. To me it's the same as somebody walking into a pub and complaining they somebody have a beer.
Going back to somebody having a go about me, cant be arsed copying and pasting; I think the West has gone feral and yes I do think it has a lot to do with the drink culture and the way we look and dress.
To me we lack dignity in some areas, with some people.
If Qatar wants to retain it's quaintness and this means people not falling out bars drunk, being sick and girls looking like whores, so be it.
As I said before though, I think it is them in a way controlling their own and not us. However, they could never admit that.
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
HAAHAHAHAHAHA PM You Made me Laugh !! "Queen Complainer".
About a comment on Abaya's in London -- aaaah again I need to remind you that the Abaya is a tradition/culture and not the Religion. When will you start differentiating between them?
Its the weekend and this will be my past post until Sunday.
Have a good holiday!
As per usual in Doha, confusion and contradiction reign supreme. If it offends Islamic culture for women to wear revealing clothes, then surely the consumption of alcohol offends equally?
And seems to me from the comments posted here, it's other women who are the most condemning and judgmental.
You can't teach experience...
Gypsy - even if it becomes an Emiri Decree it doesn't mean you have to abide by it. Just look at the smoking in public places decree!
Unless it's published in the papers with the words " Emiri decree" and a detailed description of what is and is not appropriate, I'm going to keep wearing what I wear.
Its a shame.
Rumor has it that it’s a certain arab nationality that ruined it all for you. I guess guys, you have to pay the price in the meanwhile
I can't believe the small mindedness of some people here. Anyone with any grain of intelligence is capable of realising that what is deemed as 'appropriate' dressing standards is entirely based on your own personal opinion, which is influenced by society, but not necessarily determined by them.
A naked person is not actually offensive (although I'm sure many of you will not be able to realise this). You only believe it is, because you have been led to believe it is, throughout your life. At one stage in history, showing your ankle was once considered completely morally corrupt. What is and what is not considered morally offensive is always in a state of flux, so anyone who attempts to say something is acceptable, and some things are not, is only showing their ignorance on the subject of morals.
And to reiterate what someone else has said, introducing Islamic standards into bars and night clubs is extremely amusing. If Islamic standards were truly being followed, then bars and night clubs would not be in existence.
I'll make it simple for the people who perhaps can not look past their religious beliefs.
It's like telling women they must wear Abaya's in hell.
wonderful news....I think Qatar has now understood the value of a women....sad news for all those who love show of their bodies..dont know what they get by doing this....and i hope soon goes another news on alcohol getting banned....
stone age next will be ban on alchol at clubs and hotels
It is simply put an unnecesary loss of liberty....
http://www.qatarliving.com/node/528365#comment-928770
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"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"
I see you post heck of a lot more than me. I crown you King Complainer :)
This is a discussion forum & as such the best place to complain. whether the law lasts weeks or months or even days it will still bother many people.
there are more bars than ever in doha serving alcohol. my guess is people won't leave, mainly because laws like this tend to be forgotten before long when they realise they do no good & make no sense
oh..sorry then, that was for him/her, but it still says my stand on the morals thing that i was discussing with you. wait, i haven't finished reading your whole post yet, i'm busy on the phone.
if you go back in the thread you will find that you're quoting from someone else's post. You seem to generalise that anyone showing 'skin'looks bad. If a woman likes to show the top of her arms in a place like a bar then who is that hurting? This is about a person's right to dress as they like in the freedom of a bar where anyone who could be offended SHOULD NOT be there! I am not talking about wearing hotpants, I am talking about perfectly smart clothes. Please check before you state that I said something I didn't.
Before I engage in that "morals" discussion, let me go back to the post that caught my attention in the beginning.
Regarding this point that you've stated, "..to persuade the women to go to the bars by offering all these ladies nights promotions, giving out free entry and free alcohol and now they want us to dress conservatively???"...
Can i just say, i think you give a contradiction to your point because from the way I see it --here they are giving out the promotions and all the freebies for us ladies but still here we are protesting with the "NO to moderation of ladies' attire"? We women just want to have it all, aren't we? Bars do give better promos for women which is a common PR used by all the bars and clubs all over the world for obvious reasons, but i beg to disagree when you associated that with these bars not letting the ladies have the freedom what to wear. Why? Because clubs should have dress codes, they have always been doing it for the men..now they're doing it for the women. Here you are saying something like, "Hey if you want us to come..we have to go in our skimpy outfits too", it is quite demeaning to say we'd choose not to go just (even with all the promos that you so stressed to say) coz you we can't dress cladly. Ergo, women's MORALS, in general (scratch out the Islam rule you keep on insisting about). Is it or is not possible that we can actually go and socialize without baring much skin?
I know my view is different from yours, but all i'm saying is that, that's also a nice way of looking at the situation and finding the good in it.
I'm sure you look lovely in your LBD
apologies apologies
popcorn girl - speak for yourself....i never dress like a tart....just cos my dress may show my knees doesnt mean it isn't elegant
its just about the right attire in the right place
if tou read back you will see I was referencing an earlier post
The moral standards that are being enforced are due to islamic law. I think you need to watch what you type as you seem to become highly emotional & irrational rather than logical. You can spend as many hours as you like questioning & disagreeing. I always listen, but I don't agree with you
first of all I am sad i may not be able to wear my little black dresses and FYI I do not look like a tart in them Bambino...
secondly i dress according to wear I am going...why would anyone be offended about me wearing a lovely little frock in a disco....because no good muslim would be there would they?
thirdly i always take a shawl with me and drape it round my self whilst walking in and out
fourthly I wish I had a cleavage big enough to attract attention! ;)
clean up the act on the Corniche and shopping malls...cos I cant believe what some dozy tarts do wear...but that is daft in the discos....next they will segregate the discos and only serve softies
There you finally got it..MORAL STANDARDS. You said that it's strange to impose ISLAMIC RULE in bars, didn't you? That is a heavy statement because it is not SOLELY based on Islamic rule. Do not confuse yourself with the two.
Moreover, you might want to watch what you type, "..not to enforce moral standards"?? That is a very arguementative statement that I could spend many posts on questioning and disagreeing with you.
nightclubs that impose dress codes are to enforce people looking smart, they are not to enforce moral standards. so again I see a lack of logic in your argument
Ummm, no again, Bambino. I do not think dressing accordingly in bars is an Islamic rule.
High end bars and clubs in major cities all over the world, in general, impose DRESS CODES. I have friends who own clubs in Manila and Tokyo, these clubs have dress codes. Both to men and women. Yes, the reason in imposing such rules may be different as to Doha's, but the premise is all the same. You want to know why?
the point is you can't tell her not to wear abaya. because she is not wearing one outside Saudi. :P
And the point is ???
We went to Dubai recently and checked in at Meridien Hotel. We went to the pool to have a swim and I saw a pretty lady wearing two piece, in fact she's wearing a thong and a bra. she's very friendly, so I asked out of curiousity where is she from?
can someone guess where is she from?
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She said she is from SAUDI. I couldn't believe it myself. But she told me whenever she goes to another country, no one can tell she's from Saudi. She also said she likes to act wild outside her country as she feel free.
As I said earlier it's strange to impose islamic rules in bars. I would think that most people could see the irony
you can wear what ever you want this is just malls rules
you cant walk naked or half naked in the malls thats what the dreeses rules saied
I've lived here many years & there have always been bars here were women were free to dress as they liked. It offended no-one so all this about offending Qataris is nonsense. Popcorngirl I have many Qatari friends & they would be insulted that you generalise them all as being ignorant & intolerant. Maybe it's you who sees western women as looking like tarts, but many Qataris have been educated abroad & I think they are not so small minded as that. Yes, there may be some that think that, but if they are in the bars drinking then let them think as they like as they are simply hypocrites
or we are fucked...end off!
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
;-) naughty man lol
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
Oh OK.. Is it going to be a 5 minute argument or a full half hour ??
"So qatari women have the freedom to wear what they like in those hotels but women who go to bars don't. Makes no sense to me."
Ummm..i beg to disagree, Bambino. It does make perfect sense to me. Have you forgotten, in these Muslim wedding parties --no man parties with them inside these ballroom halls. It makes a big contrast to as when foreigners go to public clubs, bars or any social night events.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
I agree with your sentiments, but the simple fact is that Bahrain or Qatar are not the UK.
They are independent countries with their own cultures, values and traditions. If they want to implement these rules, then why should we really care ?
In there eyes you look a tart, you drink like a tart!
There eyes not mine.
We are living in a MUSLIM country.
Yes, we are building thier country, yes they are slave drivers.
We are here earning good money, we came here knowing all of the above.
It is thier country, thier rules.
If a Qatari came to Melbourne, they would have to obey Aussie rules. Simple as that.
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
Jeez, I need to study language more :P
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
Having trouble with my keyboard
There would be uproar if western countries tried to tell them what to wear. Tolerance is a great thing & I can't understand people supporting intolerance
There would be uproar if western countries tried to tell them what to wear. Tolerance is a great thing & I can't understand people supporting intolerance
We did that not them and YET we seem to hate how we bent over backwards.
You hate how tolerant you have become in the UK. You sold your soul to the Devil.
Qatar is not prepared to do that.
Can you blame them, when it is obvious how feral we have become in the West?
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
The bars are still serving the alcohol so the feral booze culture as you call it will still continue. The only difference will be that the ladies will be wearing longer skirts. I drink very little, but like to wear strappy tops so how will topping me wearing what I like stop people drinking?
"I am from a christian country that has bent over backwards to make sure that other religions and ethnic groups are ok and looked after.
Some people have taken the piss.
Look at the Islamist extremism culture in the UK and tell me that is healthy ?"
Should we ban Islam and all non-christian religions.?
Knock down all the mosques/synagues/temples etc ?
No, we are tolerant of others, and in return should have our cultures etc tolerated.
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
I just saw 2 Philipino women wearing shorts and sleeveless top this evening at villaggio. the security obviously let them in.
I agree some people have taken the piss and there are areas that need enforcing such as clothing in the malls etc.
I just think that if they're going to enforce these rules it has to be the same rule for all - including the clubs entertainment. And then what about the beach parties? Or are they limiting it to inside the bars only?
And what about the arabic weddings - will they be monitored too or is it ok if it's a private function of just women?
I just don't think they've thought it out properly. It's certainly not going to stop people drinking - no offence but it's more the men that get drunk and rowdy then the women anyway!!
www.qaws.org
So what you're saying is that scantily clad women are used to lure men to the bars..
we are living in a conservative Muslim country that has bent over backwards to make sure we are ok and looked after.
Some people have taken the piss. This is their reaction.
I actually think they are right.
Look at the feral booze culture in the West and tell me that is healthy?
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
So are they going to make the singers/dancers in all the bars cover up too? The Ramada and the Intercon are well known for their "entertainment" being dressed in bikini tops and skin-tight trousers.
Makes me laugh - they spend years trying to persuade the women to go to the bars by offering all these ladies nights promotions, giving out free entry and free alcohol and now they want us to dress conservatively???
They encouraged the women to the bars to get the guys to go. Now they're turning them away. They need to make their minds up!! Are they going to stop the beach parties and the pool parties? What about the "chic pool party" at the Grand Hyatt?? Will we have to cover shoulders and knees to get into that too??
www.qaws.org
for 1 and 2 star hotels, now this in dohell....
There's something funny going on in this region just recently, and it's not good....
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I think you have me confused with someone who gives a sh1t.
All that is bad in the world happens here and it does not matter to me who 'allowed' it...they joined in.
Now they are trying to put the brakes on.
Good for them I say
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
If Qataris are making drugs in their farmhouses etc. I don't see how banning western women wearing strappy tops & short skirts in bars is being pro-active!!!
covering up won't stop me from having a glance.
The dresses that western women wear in nightclubs are nothing compared to the dresses worn by arabic women in those same hotels at weddings so where is the dress code for them? There is no-one that can be offended in the bars, if they are offended then they should not be in a bar in the first place. This is a big deal, we should be allowed a leisure time & the freedom to wear what we like in a place like a bar. Yes, we are in qatar & when at work, shopping etc. dress conservatively, but the hypocrisy of new dress rules in bars is crazy. It seems inane to impose islamic dress codes in a place where men & women freely mix & drink alcohol. So qatari women have the freedom to wear what they like in those hotels but women who go to bars don't. Makes no sense to me.It isn't a small sacrafice to make either. I've been in qatar a long times & have seen many moves forward. Lately though it seems to be going backwards.
I don't think this 'new law' is anything to do with expats at all. Come on they know we drink, smoke, go to bars etc. They provide that for us as they realise this is the way the 'West' is.
I suspect, and I am sure I will be shouted down, this is to stop the 'locals' from doing what we do.
In recent months I have seen more and more 'locals' in the grog shop and in bars. This is not allowed, so i suspect, this is not them controlling us. It is 'them' controlling their own.
Just my idea. xx
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
Sorry but I don't agree with you at all - I've been in Qatar 7 years and there has always been clubs and bars. 7 years ago the Oasis hotel was the place to be if you were underage and wanted to get drunk! Sleazy place and very glad it's gone but it was there. As was the Intercon, Sheraton, Ramada, Marriott, all with their bars and plenty of women in skimpy outfits!!
I agree that over the last few years the number has increased but things have always been ok - why fix what's not broken?
www.qaws.org
Good for them ! ______________________________________________
Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
To be honest I've seen some really badly dressed women in some places, so this may be a blessing in disguise :)
Donosa, don't we all! That is, we would all love to see the laws in their written form so that we would know and understand them. Ain't gonna happen!
Mandi
Interesting stuff Shaine.
from the Ramada Hotel. Went to the Library bar, no ID needed and then went to the Bombay Balti, nothing asked for there and there were women in there with shoulders uncoverd and with, gosh horror, knees uncovered! ;-)
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Man makes plans...............God smiles ;-)
And where can we find the official notice of this new "law". Because, unless they can show you a legal notice, I think they have no right of photocopying your passport or anything...
So everybody argues, but I don't see anyone arguing with a valid document to backup their arguments. I want to see where that law is printed!! Some more legitimate information, please!
xo
A concerned woman...
its illegal to leave a hotel intoxicated and after one drink that is what you will be. So its not logical to sell alcohol if nearly every patron of the bar is commiting a crime.
yes we are only temp in this country as we are reminded often, but we are here to do a job the locals can't do. What we are talking about here is not women going to bars in bikinis but strappy tops or whatever they are called and that is ridicolous. On your logic we should arrest every gulf arab that goes to london on holiday who has two wives as poligamy is illegal in the UK or I make my Flipina maid eat steak and kidney pie as in my house that is what we eat. (I don't have a maid so don't worry I will not abuse her will English cooking.....)
QS I have been here 11 years and the club scene was alive and well, and scantily clad then.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Macgyver - that is not the reason they weren't awarded the 2016 Olympics. That's the most ridiculous theory I've ever heard.
DJones, they dont mind YOU to go to the bars, don't worry.. :) go as much as you want..
...it's like getting QDC license.. :)
not everyone is allowed.. :)
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“You become responsible forever for what you have tamed”. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
tallg, "perhaps they should have thought of that a few years ago.".. Few years ago there were neither women in Doha, nor night clubs.. :):) Literally! I came here first time almost 4 years ago.. It was absolutely obviously: there were very few expat girls in Doha, especially the western and asian ones...and all of them were following "unwritten rule" to dress modestly. But while women's presence in qatar was growing, more and more girls started abusing this dress code. So now it is a right time to get back to status quo,and to remind the expats: you ARE in muslim country, you ARE temporary here, it is NOT your home, so please make sure you are following local rules and traditions... well.. what can i say? they ARE right..
and by the way, as per my imression, qatar never intended to develop tourism as much as Dubai...
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“You become responsible forever for what you have tamed”. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Where is this "tracking" rumour originating from ?
We were told as we left the golf club tonight, that as of tomorrow (3rd of June) we will be expected to show our ID before we go into Spikes or the other bars. I'm not happy about the whole idea of being tracked.
I feel like going out on the p*ss every night for the next couple of months (well would if I didn't have such a bad back) just to see if they turn up with a rep from Alchoholics Anon ready to do an intervention.
I'm ready to go home now I think lol
This place is turning into a Police State. Scary indeed
Why do they want to know who's going to bars?! I plan to go often when I get there... B-)
Well given that as westerners we now both have the same surname she's either my wife or sister.
But I think under local customs, that makes me the "responsible adult" either way?
actually take down your ID to be able to track you... Have it on good authority, they pretty much do it anyway - all they need is your car reg no or your mobile number - they can find out where you live, where you work and who your sponsor is...
"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME
visit www.qaws.org
Peternz, me think you should carry around your marriage certificate as well. You never know what 'they' will ask next :)
I was completely surprised last Thursday to turn up at Ramada with my wife for a drink & something to eat, to be asked for my ID. I'm not only clearly above minimum drinking age I'm above the age for almost everything else. I showed my ID ( why not ) but then they wanted to take it away. After that disagreement was over, they brought out a big ledger where they were writing everybody's ID details in & which they told me would be uploaded into a central computer.
I was uneasy for a while & then the thought of anyone that I've seen here being able to actually use it to track everyone's movements was a bit amusing. But I must say, I'm partly amused & partly uncomfortable to be tracked that way. My wife's ID was entered also.
Just as well it was my wife!
Qatar lost their bid to the 2016 Olympics? Why? They don't want lady swimmers and ladies' beach volleyball attires. Just imagine a swiimer wearing a swimsuit that covers the shoulders and the knees...LOL
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy....Martin Luther King
What does it really matter what people wear? Please don't give me that women showing a bit of flesh are like uncovered meat and if they get raped it's their fault. It's all very sad if you ask me. What next the govt censoring the newspapers and telling us what to think?
Question is...can they afford to close those shops? Then only few stores shall remain on the malls. Otherwise if they can regulate what they can sell or not...
Im not sure if they can strictly impose this dress code now.
I think I've discovered the secret of life - you just hang around until you get used to it. ~Charles Schulz
@Novita
House parties?? :)
Seriously now..very good point but then again, if you and I were Qatar..we wouldn't think, [hey if we must ban these clothes in public social events, why not ban the selling of these clothes altogether as well?], would we (in our right minds, at least)?
Thank you Shaine..That's why I'm here trying to put my good thoughts (you wouldn't want to read the many lousy ones, im telling you now) into being heard..err, read-- so you, Shaine, could have something to ponder over.
Simple to say, I'm just neurotic..It gets lonely when you're the only one, you know. One must need to pass it on. LOL
they sell all those skimpy clothes in shops in most malls and you cant wear it here? who will buy them then?
About your question, I can't help you with that, maybe the've just thought of it now?, we don't know for sure..we're going to have to call Qatar later for that. But here's what i think-- Maybe their putting the bar (metaphorically) down to what we think IS sexy. Here's my theory/hypothetical question..
If i was a single gal and I go on a night out, I would want to wear something sexy so I'd feel sexy..Now by sexy i meant, like if my back was showing, then my frontal is closed..And if I'm wearing a considerable lengthed mini skirt, I'd definitely wear a closed top (sleeves and all). The society that i live in has taught me to dress and flaunt accordingly..in moderation and class. Now, what if that kind of moderation can be more moderate? (I'm just playing with words now). What if THIS society is telling you, "Hey, you can be sexy by showing neiter or"?. What small price to pay for having a nightlife, unlike say- Riyadh?
If there's anything sad about this whole thing-- is that, the choices on what to wear has just gotten way too slim for women..and i stress, in general.
Amoud - perhaps they should have thought of that a few years ago. Tourism and investors have been Qatar's target for as long as there have been nightclubs.
And I never mentioned anything about people looking like tramps. I simply said that there is a certain style of clothing associated with night clubs. I never said I had a problem with that. I don't.
TIG
Always a step forward and a giant leap backwards.
[img_assist|nid=50852|title=hmm|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
between this and the whole deportation debaucle of 2 weeks ago. hmmmm
Why change anything Tallg? Perhaps what was common practise a few years back just isnt drawing the kind of attention that Qatar wants to project in its tourism or investor attempts. Who knows.
Just a side note... most women do not generally leave the house thinking "Wow, I sure look like a tramp tonight, WOOHOOO". We generally step out of the house thinking we look good in something, but truth is not everyone sees it the way we do.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I see where you're coming from, but from what I've seen the clubs and bars are trying to be like the ones back home. Hence why people here wear somewhat more revealing clothes to them, and hence my statement about wanting the best of both worlds.
Doha has had nightclubs for several years now, and people have got used to going to them and wearing what they wear. To that extent social life in Doha has been somewhat of a regular one - you got to a bar/club wearing what you pretty much like. The only difference is that these bars and clubs are in hotels (where, btw, you can wear bikinis on the beach).
So why suddenly start enforcing a moderate dress code after all these years?
I didn't say your point of view (in your third post) was totally wrong, tallg, but i couldn't say i agree. What i found also interesting was this, "They seem to want the best of both Worlds; Western trappings with Qatar conservatism. It wont work. They need to decide what they want and stick with it.". I do believe it just might work..as a country. It might not work to the social life of single people, in general..but I do believe in the path that Qatar is going (but in talking literally, they should have better city planning with the "roads" issue..but that's a whole other subject).
As of your question for me-- yes, there is a certain type of clothing associated with nightclubs, but then again you can't assume the clubs and bars in Doha are the ones we all have enjoyed in our respective cities back home, can you? Lastly, regarding your point-- yes and no. yes to what you said except I wouldn't use "attract" but rather, "has".
Which brings me back to my point..Yes bars and nightclubs have a certain style of clothing..but then again the social life in Doha is not you regular one, ergo the DRESS CODE.
Sorry to rub it in yah, mate.
Amoud - I've never know a woman be turned away from a nightclub because they don't meet the dress code. They always apply to the men!
seny0rita - I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say to me. Are you saying that there isn't a certain type of clothing associated with nightclubs? I totally agree with you that it's not necessary to show skin to look nice or hot, but go to any nightclub and you'll find people who think it is. That was my point - nightclubs attract a certain style of clothing.
and i quote, "there's a certain style of dress that comes with them"-- i think, he's talking..err, typing from a man's standpoint here. if i was a man, this is how i would help tallg in his post.."decent looking polos and pencil cut kneelength skirts: office. hot looking halter tops and slit up to their hips skirts: bar. now why wear something you'd wear in a business meeting be worn in a place that well, you dont have business meetings in?"
hmm. makes sense to me.
but then again, i'm a woman who knows how to be conservative when needed and i totally agree with what amoud said that showing skin is not the only way to look nice..or hot.
Doesnt really matter the extent of the dress code really, a dress codes a dress code. I would think that not showing the knees and "girls" would be a small consolation to be able to go to bars, dine with beverage and such. Lifes give and take I suppose.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
You seem to have said it better then me! I've just seemed to come across as a slut!! I'm not into tiny skirts or cleavage-bearing but I do like to wear a strappy top or something with a lower neckline.
A pretty, floaty dress just above the knee with straps shows knees and shoulders and is far from being tarty yet is now not allowed.
I find it strange to see the tarty outfits in the malls being bought by women (and no not just western women) and wonder where they will wear them!
www.qaws.org
But those type of dress codes might be 'no jeans' 'no vests' - go into any ladies clothes shops here, there are plenty of strappy dresses, that may show a little cleavage, they are certainly not tacky or slutty, most definitely for evenings out.
Like I said, no issue with covering up in the malls and supermarkets, I feel more comfortable anyway. I always think it looks tacky when I see some of the outfits on display in the malls.
I COMPLETELY agree with the need to cut down on the number of short skirts and low tops in the malls etc - I walk around looking at the women thinking they are asking for trouble!
However if they're going to have bars and clubs and encourage people to drink (there are so many ladies nights where women drink wine all night for free) then I find it quite hypocritical to start dictating what can be worn there.
Again - just my opinion.
www.qaws.org
Tallg, back home we have nightclubs with dress codes, why is this any different?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
qatar never wanted to be like dubai, and relax..certainly neither does it want to be like saudi. yup, better believe it..qatar texted me so early on today.
I agree with you its not the only way to look nice but sometimes it's nice to wear a skirt above the knee. I've heard many stories of the clothes worn by women at the weddings here and how short they can be! There is a time and place for showing off how good you can look and in the clubs was it.
The next thing will be no showing knees and shoulders when swimming I guess.
www.qaws.org
No! Its cultural. Many non Saudi women wear loose clothing. Sudanese and Somalian women don't wear abayas at all..
ok here is the thing, if it's a law or a decree it must be officially issued by the emir, Ministry council or a particular Minister in that matter and must be published in the official local newspapers. Apparently in this case it's a circulation from MOI to QNHC. As gypsy wrote, it's unclear. and since no official or newspaper commented on it. you'll only be left with speculations & rumors
Personally I don't go out with it all on show so to speak but I find it objectionable that I can't slip a pashmina off, so that I can sit for dinner with my husband in case my arms are on show.
As for the malls, I don't want to be confronted with boobs, etc so am all for a bit of modesty in there.
If as the original thread says, that Qatari ladies have complained, causing this, what are they doing in nightclubs?? eh? lol
I thought you had to wear an abaya in Saudi?
Amoud, maybe not, but if a country is going to allow nightclubs then it has to accept that there's a certain style of dress that comes with them. They seem to want the best of both Worlds; Western trappings with Qatar conservatism. It wont work. They need to decide what they want and stick with it.
This is GREAT news!!! Way to Go Qatar :D Its about time ..
Saudi does not have a law regarding abayas.
Amoud: Agree with you totally.
Hmm, I am not sure that showing knees and cleavage are the only ways a girl can look nice.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
What a joke - the clubs and bars were about the only place a girl could look nice and not worry about shoulders, knees and cleavage showing.
No offence but anyone who could potentially be offended by short skirts or low cut tops shouldn't be in the clubs anyway.
Is Qatar turning into Saudi? Qatar will never get any tourism with stupid rules like this.
www.qaws.org
ooops. :P
I saw someone being turned away from the zoo. But that's just the zoo :)
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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
How ridiculous. Either pass a law, like Saudi, saying we all have to wear abaya, or leave it be. The Middle Ground is too subjective.
I'm all for clamping down on inappropriate clothing in the shopping malls and in public, but I think there should be more leeway when it comes to the hotels.
Also, they should have started implementing these rules a decade ago. They've let things go to far to have a hope in hell of policing it properly.
Here's the content of the thread;
You are probably all aware by now that there are new dress regulations in place in Qatar - the 4 and 5 star hotels were given 10 days to comply with the new rules which are that you must be "appropriately dressed" - no explanation of what this is but it seems to be no knees (even at night in nightclubs etc) and no shoulders. I've heard of people being refused entry to restaurants for having slits up their dresses and (in the case of a 14 year old) showing their knees. I've been told the shopping centres are also now turning people away for wearing halter necks etc (Landmark in particular).
One friend just rang me to say that a group of her girlfriends were stopped from going into W last weekend - each of them had something "inappropriate" from cleavage, to knees to shoulders. You also have to now show either your ID card or passport for entry into bars and (the scary part) if you aren't dressed appropriately they take your ID card and scan it and send it to CID (apparently this is what happened to my friends friends last weekend).