GOAT SACRIFICE FOR EID

As our companion Edifis put it we'll have to agree to disagree. Even if we cannot accept anything from each other at this point let's accept that we are all different in our beliefs, in our faiths, in our convictions and in our personalities itself. And may God have mercy and guide us all and if any of us are upon the wrong then may He set us right.

Human can sustain without eating animal(s) and so I do not see any necessity or sustenance based killing of them which otherwise is only for the pleasure of eating meat... absolute necessity seems much beyond.

Also dont get the idea of instant killing... killing anyone is an ultimate form of torture IMO whether done instantly or otherwise.

OK Fathimah..in this case lets agree to disagree!

As Muslims we believe that God created us all for a purpose. An animal too has its purpose. Honestly the goat I saw being slaughtered seemed far more calmer than what a human being,God forbid, would be like when faced with the same fate. This is because we are all created differently.

I eat meat and fish. And I am aware that they were all once living and had to be killed to be consumed by us. But we as Muslims believe these animals are already aware of their future.

I am an overly sensitive person..very. So honestly be it a goat, a chicken, or even a fish I need to constantly remind myself that this was why God created them. That they will be of sustenance to another. Just like He created me for a purpose too. As humans we may go through many hardships and suffer much pains too. Its all a part of our mortal existence. And God is not unjust to anyone. Though it may appear otherwise to us, no one will ever suffer in vain.

That said one needs to bare in mind that killing an animal,for any purpose, has to be done devoid of torture and oppression. You must make sure their deaths are as instant as possible.Also you cannot kill for pleasure but sustenance or absolute necessity (like say you kill an animal that is dangerous and may cause you harm)

I hope I haven't offended anyone. bare in mind my faith is different from yours. My ideas and feelings too are hence different.

Doesn't it feel bad? I mean watching an animal as big as a goat bleed to death.....isn't it very violent and gory?

Just look at the eyes of a sheep...so innocent and calm....doesn't it feel horrible to have to kill it?

I have. When I was around five years of age.

Fathimah I have a question in my mind...Have you ever witnessed a goat or sheep slaughter from close range?

so true Fathimah, totally agree.. like i must say that he is one of the civilized and well mannered mate here ;)

now this will lead to buttering, i think thats enough :p

timebandit, you are always welcomed..

FathimaH, they refused to accept Prophet Muhammad A.S due to many reasons.. and since Muhammad S.A.W.W was on the Prophet Ibrahim's religion, so that they didn't follow anything of him also..

Inshallah will always try to be helpful but I must add you are one of the more easier people(read polite and friendly) to communicate with and I never need to make any special effort in remaining calm and patient with ya.. keep it up!

They,the Jews, refused to accept Muhammad as the final Prophet so they would not follow in his traditions.

Much appreciated ingeniero, I am grateful to all for their patience with me, especially Fathima.

Timebandit, we all are here, and will try our best to help you. if we don't know, will ask someone else, and respond to you insha Allah

FathimaH, for me i think, its because the conflict between muslims and jews, as you know that birth of Muhammad S.A.W.W took place on Arab land and in arab tribe, and Jews wanted the last prophet on their land and in there tribe. now Jews are not doing any thing muslims are doing or following.. and Prophet Ibrahim was muslim, and the religion of Ibrahim A.S was same as our Last Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W, and we are practicing almost many things what Prophet Ibrahim A.S did, like this Qurbani, Hajj,

though these all should be the part of there religion also, but they diverted from the right path. and were counted in non believers..

We covered what seemed to me, to be the whole lot. And at that time, it was very uninteresting for me. But I drew a lot of Buddhist temples and the likes. Plus I rally, really didn't like my RK teacher, and I don't think she liked me. So that didn't help. But I am here now, so I like to know more about the religion and culture of my host country. However I must point out that I wasn't that interested in my own back home.

Despite me having being far far away from a practicing Muslimah back then, I used to quite enjoy RK classes. We learnt about nearly all the major religions except for the Jewish faith which really was a pity. But like I said there just wasn't many Jews in Sri Lanka!

Sorry... got my story's mixed up. I never did like RK it was one of my worst subjects (no actually I think it was the worst). So once again I am going to get a comment in the margin saying "Must try harder" ;)

That was the story of Moses(Peace be Upon Him).

TFS DK and Inginiero for all your info. Regarding Jews I have very little knowledge of their religious practices. I actually don't have a single family member who is a Jew!(which is actually surprising considering we have pretty much all the other major religion's followers among us) And back in SL the only Jewish family I've seen was this man and his son, they were foreigners and we'd only see them passing by. I've never even spoken to a single Jew. I do know from my limited studies that they the Jews, are very secretive, specially with Muslims, about what their religious practices are. They don't go about propagating to just anyone and everyone. Therefore as to why they don't sacrifice for Eid Ul Adha is not something I know other than the obvious reason being they are not Muslims! But now from DK's explanation its more clearer. Perhaps the difference of opinion as to who was the chosen son maybe the reason,Allahu alam.

I remember having to draw a picture of this in my Religious Knowledge class back in school. Hang on... was there a burning bush involved or was my RK class a waste of time on me?

Doha Knight, Sorry i got you wrong, my mistake..

but i will correct you, that as per believes, and what is written in our holy book, says that Prophet Abrahim A.S was Muslim.

secondly about the sacrifice, it was Ismail A.S, who was chosen for sacrifice, as written in Holy Quraán, on which we believe. Allah Almighty took test of Abrahim A.S two times, first he got the orders to leave Ismail A.S in the area far away from the city, where now Makkah is present, and he did so,

then when the Ismail A.S grown up, then again Allah asked for the sacrifice of Ismail A.S from Abrahim A.S, which he followed again, and we are doing our sacrifice according to that.

regarding jews why they are not doing the sacrifice, i have an idea, don't know how to express, may be sometime later

or i will wait for FathimaH, may be she explain better then me

Eid Mubarak

Ingeniero,

I never said Abraham was a Jew. Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Muslim. He just had a strong feeling against polytheism. Now, I have done some research and found out the reason why Jews don't celebrate Eid al Adha..

According to the Hebrew Bible, Ishmael was Abraham’s first son, born when Abraham was 86 years old. Ishmael’s mother was Hagar, an Egyptian slave in Abraham’s household. Later, Isaac was born to Abraham by his wife, Sarah, in his 100th year, and was the first of his legitimate descendants. God demanded that Abraham sacrifice Isaac as a test of faith, but because of Abraham’s unquestioning compliance, God permitted him to spare Isaac and sacrifice a ram instead. God rewarded Abraham with a formal renewal of his earlier promise.

However, according to Islamic tradition, Hagar was the true wife of Ibrahim and Ishmael was the favored son intended for the sacrifice, rather than his son Isaac. Since Ishmael is said to be the forefather of the Arab people, they believe that God spared Ishmael so that Ishmael could give rise to the Arab population. This is the reason why Eid al Adha is primarily a Muslim celebration but the point is, whether it was Isaac or Abraham, who was taken to the sacrificial altar, is a matter of belief.

Ms. Ghazalz... I just asked a small question, and the topic got hot. It just flew from one side to another. Anyways thanks for your participation.

People get a hold of your emotion and ignore/forgive edifis... the thread has got off topic already and edifis is a win win for this moment... but the believer wud know his/her fate and that of edifis... and can spare some sympathy.

back to topic, i was advised to take part in the sacrifice physically, even preferably slaughter with your own hands or at least assist. but i know that it is not obligatory.

Faizal's comment is helpful:

"Go to any counters of Qatar Charity in Malls. Book your goat and pay your bills. Done. I have seen one in Lulu Hyper (Mall R/A)"

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/2230705#ixzz1cRtD2y4b

and Christians and Jews are not on the religion of Prophet Abraham A.S, they are followers of Prophet Easa and Mosa A.S,

so they had then different festivals and celebration occasions.. we Muslims are on religion of Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Abraham, as you know already, and said in your comment also.. while they just followed the Prophet Musa and Prophet Eesa A.S, they were not the followers of Prophet Abraham A.S,

lemme try to explain little more, see first Prophet Musa came, when the people diverted from the correct path, and were going on wrong side, those one are called Jewish, then after some time can a century of more Prophet Eesa A.S came, and he tried to keep them on the right path. some how he succeeded, but still many of them were on wrong paths.

and the problem was the people were not following the religion of the last prophet 100%, they made many changes in the holy book,

pardon if any mistake, or poor English, since am not that good in it, and its not my first language also.

again with some more details regarding Prophet Ibrahim A.S

check this also,

http://www.al-ijtihad.com/library/prophets/ProphetIbrahim.pdf

was trying to avoid this thread.. since edifis comment made my temper high. so to avoid him didn't participate in the discussion..

Doha Knight, let me correct you..

Prophet Ibrahim was not jew.. you can get the info from the following website also.. as he came before Hazrat Musa and Hazat Eisa A.S

if you have time, check this link..

http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/comparative/Abraham.htm

and

mind altering juices?

Sounds like a Black Mass......care to throw in an orgy as well?

:P

the_hippo - Well now coming to the QDC bit. Is it right that some persons can have a permit and drink to their hearts content while others have to make do with cologne, lotion and a cocktail of assorted mind altering juices and substances. I suppose they never had such a system or procedure of selective filtering of applicants and who can drink and who cannot even in south africa in its darkest days

miraaj_r, hope you've got answers of your queries :)

:P

Poor goat! Even her husband stinks! You can smell him from a mile away! Imagine how she feels at bed with him....

she wants to be with her husband and kids alone.....Leave her alone........please....

All's OK Thanks Fathima

Again my apologies...didn't really read over and analyze what I typed before punching save.Will Inshallah be more careful in the future.. hope alls cool.

Hey now you got me wondering...could "Hadi" the name and "Hady" the animal for slaughter mean the same or perhaps the two "H"s are different. ح and ه maybe...will do a search on this!

Exactly my point I know you made a mistake and was correcting you. But not all are smart like you . good at least there is google

DK agreed that the custom was relevant during the time of Abraham and later for the hassidic or shephardic jews who used to roam around with their livestock in search of pastures! For them parting with a goat or sheep was truly a sacrifice as those were there only possession.

Nowdays I think the sheep should be replaced by a Landcruiser!

Otherwise they should stop using the Landcruiser and use camels instead.

Now the question is how to sacrifice a landcruiser? They can dismantle it and give the parts away to needy people like me. In 3 to 4 years I could assemble a whole LC from different parts obtained from various sacrifices!

Sprouts!

How would you translate 'hady'? I know of a muslim called Hadi - would this be the same word? You would hardly name your child Qurbani! lol

....waits for someone to write in "Hey! That's my name, what's wrong with it?!"

what do vegetarian muslims sacrifice?

edifis, IMO..If we look at the time when this tradition first started amongst the Jews, their most valuable possession and worldly wealth was no more than a few oxen,cows or goats. So, parting with one of the animals did amount to sacrificing a part of their wealth for the less previlaged. Also, since this tradition is connected to Abraham's tale of 'sacrificing' his son, it is popularly termed as one.

"Mr. Edifis this is not the place or event to speak about religion"

and he didn't - Sajmarhab and you read into it something to get offended at. No one has a right not to be offended; I myself am offended by lots of things and there is not alot I can do about it apart from get offended......then move on.

I was mildly offended by the wording in the OP's title but I didn't go charging in being rude to the writer like Sajmarhab. That's because I do realise my views are my own and I don't have the right to press them upon others, as I'm not the centre of the universe.

Its my pleasure to be of any help with your queries. And trust me I understand your confusions. Just a few months back my MIL had similar questions regarding the slaughter and believe me answering you guys here virtually is far easier than answering my family and In laws!

And yes Adey is correct here. Its actually the lack of a better word to use that we call it "qurbani" or "sacrifice". The Arabic word "hady" makes more sense I suppose.

Mr. Edifis this is not the place or event to speak about religion so I agree with Sajmarhab!!!

Fathimah...thanks for being so tolerant as always. But I tend to agree 100% with adey as to the meaning of the word 'sacrifice'...I am still not convinced that you should call it sacrifice. I think the word charity or 'goat/sheep meat distribution charity' would be more appropriate in this case.

Thanks again to Fathimah for your patience and taking the pains to respond elaborately to my post...Although we may disagree..it's always a pleasure to discuss with you, as it enriches my knowledge too!

The whole discussion/argument derives from the contatations the word 'sacrifice' entails.

You may make a personal sacrifice - money, goods, time, food etc which in some way puts a burden on oneself for the benefit of others - for example, one can 'sacrifice' one's time and money to share food, in the form of mutton, to one's family, neighbours, the poor and hungary. This use of the word has beneign overtones.

However when you use the word in the contex of 'sacrificing' a goat/sheep(especially in the contex of a religious celebration) the word has a whole different meaning. It means to offer a blood 'sacrifice' to a diety. The goat is making the sacrifice not the devotee. This is where the word 'scapegoating'comes from; the ancient practice of offering the blood of an animal to appease the angry gods, which in turn harks back to the days of offering human sacrifices.

Maybe it would have been better for the OP not to have used the words 'Goat Sacrifice' in his title. As a native English speaker I can tell you that this term has a completly different meaning, in English, than the practice that is carried out over Eid by the muslims around the world.

Arabian Princess, You are right as far as the scriptures are concerned and I don't have any doubt on this Eid's genesis. However, my question was different and now that our most knowledgeable Fathima doesn't know the answer, I guess I have to look for a Jew to know why they don't celebrate this occasion with so much fervour that muslims do.

arabian princess...extremely right...good answer!!

And you have an awesome time too this year. No slaughtering of goats here though, way to expensive and we got dependents who need the cash more than the meat this year. I must say I absolutely miss the Christmas cakes and puds we got back in SL. The stuff here just don't match up. Oh for those yummy marzipan icing covered moist as it gets cakes.. My in laws make them really well too!

...entitled to voice their opinion. Michelrobot is right. Another example of the "intolerance" of some people to even allow others to speak.

Well I would have to give the whole goat away I think. I wouldn't know what to do with one.

Anyway I would like to wish all a fantastic Eid celebration with or without a goat. We all have different celebrations and events to mark in our calendar. I only know about my own, even though I do not celebrate these events in my country for the right reasons, I love them because they always involve family get togethers, good food, and in most cases good will to all. As do most events in the calendars of others I am supposing? So happy Eid everyone, I hope you have a fabulous time regardless of your faith, just get in the spirit of things. Spend some quality time with friends (and family if you can), and share some joy with those around you and be glad of their company. I am going to ;)

And I have Christmas to look forward to as well Ho Ho Ho!

I am going to sacrifice a large Christmas Pudding this year.

the hippo i wish others where bright us like too but sigh :(

There are plenty of goats and sheep for sale in the Livestock Market, off the Salwa Road. There's no shortage and it is not as though they are going to be extinct. I often see goats and sheep when I drive to QDC, aka the Booze Shop. If Muslims can be tolerant and allow westerners like me to go and buy some alcohol, why can't we just let them get on with killing a few goats? It's their own blooming country, after all, and we are just silly foreigners. Oh and is it true that QDC will also be selling pork soon? Yummy!

"Never talk about Religion or Politics"...is an old phrase as this will only cause conflict. everyone of us has his/her own belief and culture. What we need is respect and understanding. Fathima's reply was well thought of and not biased. 2 thumbs up for Fathimah!

As for your question, then the answer I really don't know cos that's something only a Jew can answer for. I do know that, according to our beliefs,it was Muhammad who actually took to reviving many of the methods of Abraham which people had abandoned along the way. Hence we as their followers do the same.

..................

Michael is right but when I said have it yourself I actually meant you can partake in a share of the meat as well. Sorry for the error. God knows you a'int dumb!

It is very important to understand that the sacrifice itself, as practiced by Muslims, has nothing to do with atoning for our sins or using the blood to wash ourselves from sin. This is a misunderstanding by those of previous generations: "It is not their meat nor their blood that reaches Allah; it is your piety that reaches Him."

Looks like English is not your first language.

at the end I said correct me if i am wrong.

Read Digest and then don't comment like a dumb a$$

tcom r u dumb to believe her see i googled and i got the answer

because Allah liked the way in which prophet Ibrahim was about to sacrifice his son in the way of Allah...and while he was doing so a sheep was sent instead to replace his son..so thats y to make Allah happy we sacrifice cow goat or sheep in order to make him happy

The meat from the sacrifice of Eid al-Adha is mostly given away to others. One-third is eaten by immediate family and relatives, one-third is given away to friends, and one-third is donated to the poor. The act symbolizes our willingness to give up things that are of benefit to us or close to our hearts, in order to follow Allah's commands. It also symbolizes our willingness to give up some of our own bounties, in order to strengthen ties of friendship and help those who are in need. We recognize that all blessings come from Allah, and we should open our hearts and share with others

Check Fathima's comment

Thanks Fathima. Sorry, I should have read the thread properly first shouldn't I.

who said they keep the whole goat

Fathima, I have a question..Accepting that the Prophet was a decendent of Abraham and Prophet's teachings have a lot in common with that in the Torah or the Halaka..in the sense Judaism can be considered as the mother religion of Islam and Christianity.

Now, in this Eid, people celebrate the Sacrifice of Abraham when he was willing to give his son to God..

My, question is, why is this more of a festival in the Islamic community than in the Jewish community despite Abraham being the central character for the Jews?

i first read edifis post and thought of commenting..but forget it people its no use arguing...or making those understand who dont want to..let them say what they have...may THESE people be guided...cooool everyone...:)

keeping the whole goat after killing is not called sacrifice. Correct me if I am wrong

Yes you can eat it yourself(ok..who can eat a whole goat now?) but it's better to distribute the meat among your relatives, neighbors and mostly to the poor and needy.

Errr.... genuine question. After sacrificing an animal, you do eat it don't you? Or is it left somewhere as an offering?

OMG

Such anger and resentment...

the answer to that will depend on which faith you follow. As a Muslimah I'll say its better to slaughter the animal(which is not "holy" to me) and distribute the meat to the needy than drinking its urine myself BUT you may disagree based on your faith so that's just fine. To you be your religion and to me be mine.. let's respect both of our rights to practice our faiths without intolerance and discourtesy. Peace!

u always crack me up

Very well said Fatimah ... !!

Even our slaughtering the goat is in order to distribute its meat among the needy as well so it is done in charitable intent. Of course with regarding it been "murder" "inhuman" etc then that will be the age old "vegetarian" vs "non vegetarian" argument that can go on forever.

That said your idea on giving money to the needy in the horn of Africa is excellent. Specially since this is the month of Zakath as well, that's one area that needs as much charity as they can get.So thanks a lot for your suggestion.

And to the you, O Muslims: remember always, we cannot get all abusive and angry when someone questions us on our faith. This was not the way of our Prophet,peace be upon him. You have to answer them with patience and have a great deal of tolerance. This is by far a great obligation upon us.May Allah guide us all and set us upon the straight path always...Barakhallah feekum, Aameen!

Saw this a few weeks ago... I think sheep fit amongst the cows.

Well said,bro.But regarding the permeability of getting someone to do it in your home country on your behalf, then there is dispute as to whether it is allowed or not. Best to do it in the country where you are currently residing in,Allahu alam.

cows meat is still very delicious

I love camels more than cows and goats .. :P

i love cows more than goats

why do you guys worship idols, cows, monkeys, rats, elephant?

Do you know why you were created? If you know the answer then you should know why goat was created.

Wake up before you end up in hell fire eternally.

May god guide you out of darkness Mr. Lao Tzuuuu

“The meat and blood of your sacrificed animals doesn't reach Allah, it is fear of Allah (Obedience) only that reaches Him.” [Hajj:37].

edifis... u plz keep ur mouth shut... why u always like insult for u ?. Lolz

you know whts hypocritical...

when guys like edifis and the dumb-a** lot who blurt out their self rightous BS and then naively say..."oh if u dont like it dont take it...!" spare the bull dweeb!!!!

so tell me edifis... i never heard of any trees tht grow pork chunks and bacon strips....u might enlighten me abt them?

what is that way u found it?

with due respect, it is hard to believe u r in Qatar or some Muslim country...

when you are in some country u follow their rules.. not what u like or what r in ur country...

If u have a religion or even not have one respect other religions. (I will say please)

even i do not like few things about few religion... but understood its not my right to share my thought over here.

with due respect, it is hard to believe u r in Qatar or some Muslim country...

when you are in some country u follow their rules.. not what u like or what r in ur country...

If u have a religion or even not have one respect other religions. (I will say please)

even i do not like few things about few religion... but understood its not my right to share my thought over here.

I agree with sajmarhab. If you doesn't about Islam keep quite on their religious issues.

Shazdin...????

loll...

is that for me??? :P

@Edfils

Keep you mouth shut. Nobody is asking our opinion here ok. the person asked some information which has been provided to him. so kkep your opinion with you.

so u mean.. every non-veg is a murdere??? loll

people eat meat everywhere in the world..not only in Qatar

and yes the sacrifice is the money we spend on buying an animal .. and then sharing it with our friends and relatives...and most importantly to the people who cannot afford buying food for themselves... this sacrifice is actually for them.... so this way u share part of ur wealth every year

If all of us start getting over sensitive like you my friend....human race would end very soon..bcoz nobody wants to be a killer or a murder... :)

Cheers!!! just Enjoy your Eid holidays and forget about the goats :D

for the topic..check it out at abu hamour market opposite to wholesale veg. market.. goats kind of do the modeling there every Eid Al Adha..buy one and u can give it to the slaughter house there and they'll do the job for u (EVERYTHING) !!

Dear Brother,

1. If you doesnt know about ISLAM, better keep quite...

Or Learn about Islam and talk with valid reason... or else follow Rule number 1.

Killing a goat is not sacrifice! It is murder! It is deliberate and cold blooded murder. I mean whose sacrifice is it?...definitely not yours, and the goat doesn't want to sacrifice it's life....So it is an unwilling victim.

Sacrifice would be giving away your one month's hard earned salary to the famine stricken people in the 'horn of Africa'.

PS: It's my opinion only....so neglect it if you don't like it...

faizel47 even we got this brochure from Lulu with rates, but do u know whats the procedure after booking.

Just needed is "Niyyah"(intention of performing sacrifice )

Go to any counters of Qatar Charity in Malls. Book your goat and pay your bills. Done. I have seen one in Lulu Hyper (Mall R/A)

useful answer !

check at Mawashi at Abu hamour !

Its a wholesale goat/sheep market.

Present cost is ragin from 1100 to 1200 !

go and check there for exact rate.

How can you sacrifice a goat online ? :(

Ya u can send the amount to someone to sacrifice on your behalf in your country.

poor goat..:(