H1N1 Vaccines will not be tested for safety
Health Officials Admit Fast Tracked H1N1 Vaccines Will Not Be Tested for Safety
The media is reporting on the governments preparation for a massive vaccination campaign this fall for the hyped up H1N1 hybrid flu virus. Recently Katherine Sebelius, the Health and Human Services Secretary, granted legal immunity for vaccine manufacturers during the stage 6 pandemic declared by the WHO. Even more troubling than the new vaccines or antivirals themselves, is the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) declared by the FDA, which enables the use of expired stockpiles of Tamiflu or Relenza, and non-compliance with label requirements. The EUA authority will also permit the FDA to allow the use of “unapproved or uncleared medical products” during an established emergency.
The new stock of vaccines the governments purchased, has been fast tracked for approval by the FDA. Health officials admit that the clinical tests are about dosage amounts, and not safety. So the new vaccines being approved for the fall campaign, have the potential to cause severe harm or death, due to the lack of safety tests.
The AP reported-----
~~~
The clinical trials are mainly aimed at calibrating the doses to give to patients, not to test if it is safe or not, officials stressed.
"We are not trying to find some yet unrecognized problem with the vaccine," said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota
~~~
This is an appalling statement considering the 1976 mass vaccination campaign for swine flu, that injured hundreds of thousands and resulted in dozens of deaths from Guillain-Barré Syndrome. It is also a very cryptic statement, unrecognized problems, meaning that they will not explore how the body will react to new vaccines with unapproved adjuvants like Squalene.
The WHO even admitted the swine flu vaccine being fast tracked in the EU may be unsafe because it allows firms to bypass large-scale human trials.
So with reduced safety testing, would you trust a vaccine manufacturer whose contaminated vaccine could have potentially caused a pandemic?
http://current.com/items/90566135_health-officials-admit-fast-tracked-h1...
http://justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Health-Officials-Admit-Fast-Tracked...
yup forgot that one...
Thats why I think *everyone* at school should be made aware of the flaws found in human thinking so one can defend themselves against them.
Nah, smallpox just vanished all by itself, polio just so happens to only exist in countried who had low vaccine uptake, and outbreaks of measles only happened to exist in areas of the UK with low MMR uptake....yup, no proof whatsoever :s
Do you eat fruit? they contain natural pesticides which have been shown to cause cancer when injected into mice. Scared yet?
There is no such thing as a poisoness substance, just a poisoness dose.
FYI they stopped putting thimerosal (a mercury compound, not mercury) in vaccines back in the 90's to shut you lot up.
we going in circles here, I will watch the video , but I can tell you right now, it probably will not change my mined about vaccinations .
the "other " side , makes some darn good arguments against Vaccinations and it's getting to be more and more people speaking out against it.
I will see your side of the story.
But for sure I don't want to have thimerosal (mercury ), aluminum , formaldehyde , ethylene glycol , phenol , benzethonium chloride or methylparaben injected directly into my body. NO WAY
If they come up with an vaccination that doesn't have does nasty and evil ingredients, I may think about it.
But there is still the factor , that the effectiveness has not been proven , and there are no statistics done on it to proof it.
I fear, Jut, that Umm may also be suffering from confirmation bias. Nothing the medical establishment can say will sway her from her preset beliefs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
if the video is too long to watch for you, or a good book on the scientific method(sagan - demon haunted world, goldacre - badscience) is beyond your desire to educate yourself then hopefully a simple graph will ram the "causation/corellation" thing down your throat.
http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/001857.php
ty for the video link btw, may use that in class sometime.
"that is why I read up on it from people ( in my case the anti vaccination people) that know what they are talking about!!!"
and here lies your problem. You're looking at second hand information, choosing to listen to an apparent authority figure with impressive sounding qualifications that may or may not be genuine (and also supports your personal bias), instead of learning how to spot a dodgey trial, understand how vaccination is supposed to work or even the fundamental basics of the scientific method.
The scientific method leaves no room for authority figures or personal bias to creep in, it leaves only fact. Cheats are soon exposed thanks to science's continuous self critcism. It has a built in self correcting mechanism.
What you're trying to do is take a shortcut so you can skip the years of education part. Instead you are(self admittedly) not competent and choose to spread information that has a real concequence on other people's lifespan.
Umm, when you watch the video Adey has linked to, you will understand the error, and it is one that is very commonly made by people.
Basically it comes down to this:
Correlation does not imply causality.
That is to say - the presence of two seemingly related variables doesn't always (or often) prove that one thing led to another.
You can read more about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Better yet, just watch the video and you will understand medically and scientifically that the correlation of, for instance, autism and vaccination does not prove causality.
I'm saying that when it comes to understanding and commeting on vaccination and science you are incompetent.
Not only are you incompetent, your incompetence prevents you from seeing how incompetent you are, your incompetence also prevents you from recognising competence in this subject area.
Of course you would understand that if you read the paper, which I doubt you did in a couple of minutes.
BTW care to answer the questions I posted a couple of posts above? I'm actually curious to see your answers to them.
P.S. Fubar, the best thing about that paper is that it's actually a good quality, serious, peer reviewed study.
It's reminiscent of watching the American Idol auditions.
Some 'singers' (I use the term loosely) are so lacking in technical and musical skills, knowledge and experience that they just assume that they must be good singers, since they don't know any better.
Makes for entertaining television.
Pajju junior is doing good :)
And yes we can dream of a better world !
JUT,
you are right I'm not competent in those fields, that is why I read up on it from people ( in my case the anti vaccination people) that know what they are talking about!!!
If vaccines were good for us, there would be no reason for dishonesty and deceit. If vaccines were safe and effective there would be no issue here.
lol umm ... we can dream watever we want :) nyway how z junior ? :)
Pajju , LOL not you, is those brits , they keep attacking my , calling me stupid, because they are so much smarter then me and you , I GUESS
Have I attacked you personally ?!
no u dint .. and nobody cant .. lol :))
so saying I'm stupid is NOT attacking me then?! OH wow I missed something again!
Have I attacked you personally ?!
Great link Jut! That one's a keeper.
We've all met many people too stupid to realise how dumb they are!
umm really am n kerala now :)
Pajju , I guess it's only you , you have to do the hijacking all by yourself today
http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
there is little argument to attack. You would understand that if you took 4 years out to study the subject you're trying to comment on.
hmmm all hijackers on vacation
JUT,
so if I'm stupid according to you, what on earth makes you so much smarter?
If you can't attack the argument , attack the person , which is me here.
Very informative video.
Thanks Adey. I'm even more convinced now about the effectiveness of vaccinations.
"I'm not as stupid as you like to think , masha allah"
Yes, yes you are.
"If it makes you feel better I'm a Pharmacy Technical Assistant"
So was my girlfriend before she went to university to become a proper pharmacist. A "Techincal Assistant" counts tablets, makes up the odd solution and sticks labels on boxes.
Answer me this, for amusement sake.
1)How long does it take for something to be tested safe?
2)When should a sub-group analysis be used in controled testing?
3)When is an individual study more reliable than a meta-analysis?
It's good to keep an open mind, but if you open your mind too much, your brain falls out.
I will watch the video tonight when I have more time !
is no longer in child vaccinations, it is perfectly safe, it was withdrawn to placate scaremongers like you Umm.
Watch the vid I posted to see where your 'info' actually comes from and how it is misinformation - I am not saying that it is deliberate misinformation designed to do harm - it's just not scientifically correct, it is wrong information.
Everyone, please, please, please watch that vid - it spreads ou the debate clearly.
Thanks
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Yet most parents are happy to spray their houses with disinfectants and surface sprays and sanitizers and antiseptics and other products which have been directly linked to decreased immune function.
Go figure.
Most parents who feed their children properly would not let them eat a food which contained any of the many ingredients of immunizations.
Some of the ingredients in childhood vaccines are: thimerosal (mercury disinfectant/preservative), aluminum (additive to promote antibody response), formaldehyde (disinfectant), ethylene glycol (antifreeze) phenol (disinfectant, dye) benzethonium chloride (antiseptic) and methylparaben (antifungal, preservative).
fubar , in fact I do worry about all that stuff that you have listed so nicely.
I can't avoid it all, just impossible. I will try to limited it to what I can .
NO need to harm my body deliberately or others for that matter.
I don't mean to harm people I just try to make them understand the possible risk they will take .
After that it is up to them to make a decision.
That is all, I didn't know of all that bad stuff being in the vaccination until somebody informt me .
So maybe a lot of people just don't know and rather not take the vaccination after knowing all of that!
Is there time to test it?
They want to bring it unto the market sooner then later. Don't they say that over and over !
So when is the time to do a long time study on it ?
a lecture vid on debunking the anti-vaccination movement.
its 54mins long.
http://videos.med.wisc.edu/videoInfo.php?videoid=87
Just make up your own minds.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Umm, what gives you the qualifications to make a statement like this:
"There simply will not be enough time for long time testing to say it is save [sic]."
You remind me of people who believe that fluoride should be removed from drinking water, teflon frypans give you cancer and spray on deodorant will give you dementia.
You can find people who have serious doubts about EVERYTHING.
Have you ever stopped to worry about residual pesticides on fruit and vegetables? Genetically modified ingredients in food stuffs? The effect of artificial UV light on overall health? Inhaling noxious fumes when you get into a hot car? The impact of artificial hormones on the food chain? Anti-biotics fed to chickens? Heavy metals in seafood? Inhalation of dust while living in a desert environment? Dioxins in plastics? Chemicals from shampoos and soaps leaching through your skin?
Lots of people have lots of theories that lots of things are slowly killing us. You've just been taken in by the latest cause de jour.
This information is to provide a balance against the pro-vaccination literature which is easily available. Anti-vaccination philosophies are sometimes difficult to find and anti-vaccinationists are called names in an attempt to discredit their reasoning. One must concede that both sides are biased in their views, however skewed. Truth is what is needed and that seems to be lacking in the pro-vaccination literature. If vaccines were good for us, there would be no reason for dishonesty and deceit. If vaccines were safe and effective there would be no issue here. Anti-vaccination literature only wants to support the truth and honestly tell the facts as they really are. Only by becoming educated in this very important issue can one make an informed decision. Yet, every day parents are asked to roll up Johnny’s sleeve with very little consideration as to what their permission is for. Few people realize that vaccines are grown on monkey kidneys, mice brains and chicken embryos. Few people realize the dire consequences of injecting foreign animal tissues (DNA/RNA) and the auto-immune reactions they can induce. Few people realize that vaccines are immune depressing and may cause cancers, leukemias and even have been linked to AIDS.
V_A_T , You have not read the history well, maybe you read from the wrong source.
A 1992 study published in The American Journal of Epidemiology shows that children die at a rate 8 times greater than normal within three days after getting a DPT vaccination.
A preliminary study by the Center for Disease Control (CDC) found children who received the HiB vaccine ... were found to be 5 times more likely to contract the disease than children who had not received the vaccine.
In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.
In 1977 Dr Jonas Salk (inventor of the Salk polio vaccine) testified with other scientists that 87% of the polio cases which occurred in the US since 1970 were the by-product of the polio vaccine.
The Sabin oral polio vaccine (OPV) is the only known cause of polio in the us today.
The February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of obstetricians and 66% of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine.
Umm said 'But having an open mined and being able to think independent and not just blind following the mass is what makes a difference !'
Don't you think that people do have an open mind and 'choose' to go the way they want to go. So just because they do not agree with you, they are just blindly follow the mass? I don't think so. I think almost every parent thinks hard about whether to immunise their child, its not a decision that anyone takes lightly, becuase there is all this information out there but I would always immunise my children becuase i feel history speaks for itself. In the UK I don't think there are now any cases of polio (or only a very few), this is because of immunisation.
"Come on deep in your heard , you see what I am trying to say, but some people are to stuck up to admit it,
and say : yeah maybe there is something not right here!"
I fundamentally disagree with everything you espouse - it's ok to question but you are spreading disinformation and ignorant old wives tales - and in this situation this is life threatening and dangerous.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
ADEY that is the problem right there.
The WHO and the FDA are just allowing the vaccinations right now on a fast track. and as the links posted by jut showed they are still testing and recruiting people to be test objects. There simply will not be enough time for long time testing to say it is save . It will be quick and rushed and they say : oh it's save!!
just so they can get it to the market.
You can use common logic and count on your fingers how long they will test
you know what adey send me back home I don't care . I don't have to stay here.
so end of debate.
Assistant Minister of Public Health Dr Ahmed Naji told Gulf Times that :
“We will not accept any trial vaccines here. We will wait for the approved ones by the WHO and since a lot of studies are still going on regarding number of shots that will be effective against the virus, we will still ask for the WHO’s advice on the dosage administration, for instance, which age group should take one or two shots,” he explained. "
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=316355&version=1&template_id=57&parent_id=56
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Fubar I came into the country without any shot records !
So now all of a sudden they will track me down and others as well to find out if you got the shot or not,
PLEASE you are dreaming!!LOL
It makes no difference to me , at this time and place they simply can NOT make me take any vaccination ! Until they change the law and enforce it.
ah yeah, enforce it , wow, don't we have problems with traffic laws being enforced and even other laws, did you forget where we are!
I don't know how they will do it, and I don't care. I'm only commenting on what was published in today's paper.
Why don't you ring them and ask?
The MOI has issued everyone ID cards and ID numbers. They know who is in the country and who is not. They know where we live, where we work, which car we drive, which phones we use.
They know everything.
This isn't a democracy, don't forget. If they command that we all get a flu shot, then we all get a flu shot. Simple.
easy, just withdraw work permit/residency for the unvaccinated.
For nationals - I am sure there are various penalties.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Adey LOL, you talking about SUDAN
sorry , but in Germany we have higher education standards , please you know that!
IT doesn't matter, going to school or not, like you said, I agree.
But having an open mined and being able to think independent and not just blind following the mass is what makes a difference !
Come on deep in your heard , you see what I am trying to say, but some people are to stuck up to admit it,
and say : yeah maybe there is something not right here!
Also I have gotten a lot of private messages about people agreeing with me, they just don't go in the open and talk about it, like me!
LOOK fubar, Who is going to make me take the vaccination
the army , they will come knocking on my door ?!
they WANT to give the vaccination to all , BUT you will have to go to the hospital or health center to get it , right?!
Or am I missing something again?
Only joking
However since when does just attending a school mean you actually learnt anything there or since?
Hey I know of a young 16 yr old that has been accepted on a pre-med course with nothing more than average grades at o level standard - mind you it is in Sudan!
She may get a qualification as a doctor but I wouldn't use her services if my life depended on it - unfortunately it probably would - damn!!!
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
I'm starting to understand why she is spreading disinformation. Her literacy skills aren't so great...
No wonder she hasn't understood all the H1N1 information out there.
p[ease tell us which pharmacy......so we can know which one to avoid.
You could not have read the article posted by fubar very well - as it said that everyone in Qatar would eventually be vaccinated; Nothing to do wth going to Haj, this year or any year.
"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365
not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the
many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers
were given. Satan - 10."
Third time lucky.
"Mass flu jabs may begin in October"
The Gulf Times is reporting that the Supreme Council of Health is planning to vaccinate all the residents of Qatar. Everyone. That's why they have ordered 1,500,000 doses.
Just to make sure you are understanding this. Everyone is getting the vaccine.
Whether they want it or not.
Whether they are going to Makkah or not.
Whether they are Qatari or not.
Everyone.
Got it?
Try reading what I posted.
Or I'll make it even clearer for you:
First they will vaccinate pilgrims.
Then they will vaccinate children.
Then they will vaccinate pregnant women.
Then they will vaccinate the elderly.
Then they will vaccinate EVERYONE ELSE.
At least that is what the Gulf Times is saying.
fubar yes I have read , still that means this YEAR not for ever and a day !!!!
It is for THIS time around, and people have the option of not going , so they don't have to take any vaccination , please the article yourself again:)
JUT
I'm not as stupid as you like to think , masha allah
If it makes you feel better I'm a Pharmacy Technical Assistant, I went to school in Germany and I have somewhat knowledge in the medical field ! I worked with all that stuff for years !
Ok ,with that being said,your links are only showing that the test are being carried out RIGHT now, an they still looking for people to recruit !!!
RIGHT?!
No save data as of yet, it's all being rushed and that is a fact.
"Which also has the unfortunate side-effect of costing lives as seen with anti-polio vaccine in Nigeria, "
I wonder why?
Because it cost an outbreak of polio , of course they don't want any more of that nasty stuff putting their kids in the wheel chairs ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32418446/ns/health-infectious_diseases/
http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=tallahassee&sParam=35947156.story
fubar
my dear I'm not going to hajj this year , so masha allah I don't have to take the vaccination.And by Allahs might it will be all over and done with that non sense by the time I'm do my hajj!!!
I'm not even breaking a sweat about that :)
From today's Gulf Times:
“We hope to vaccinate those going on Haj against both seasonal flu and H1N1 as being requested by the Saudi Arabian health authorities, and then we will proceed to immunise the REST of the population ***starting with children, pregnant women and the elderly.***”
http://gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=316355&version=1&template_id=57&parent_id=56
I guess this means everyone is getting a jab?
Don't worry Jut. How many people agree with you, and how many people are disagreeing with you? And how many people didn't even comment on this thread because they thought it was insane to peddle nonsense?
There is nothing you can do, Jut. Pearls before swines.
The beauty of science is that if I so choose to, I can look up a trial on one of the many peer reviewed scientific journals, or on a trial register such as this...
http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=h1n (ooooh look at all those H1N1 trials)
...see how a trial has been, or will be carried out, including how the outcome will be measured, and if I so choose to, carry out a trial using the same method to see if I get the same results.
From comprehensive meta-analysis carried out by independent, non-profit organisations such as the cochrane collaboration
(for example http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004879.html)
I can eliminate any poor quality trials, and be left with the cream of the crop allowing me to reach a conclusion.
Unfortunatly learning how to understand the scientific method, read a paper, and tell good data from bad isn't something many non-scientists can do with ease hence we are left with people like you rabbiting on about conspiricy theroies and "opinion". Which also has the unfortunate side-effect of costing lives as seen with anti-polio vaccine in Nigeria, and quacks like Matthius Rath persuading people to stop taking anti-retrovirals in HIV infested Africa, instead recommending mega doses of his vitamin pills. Thankfully this quack has been shut down there, but the damage is done. These are real people who die, not numbers on a screen.
The same method that makes planes stay in the sky, provides heat for your home (and AC), produced your car, provides clean drinking water and sanitation, doubles the average human lifespan, and even is responsible for producing the very PC and screen you are now reading this post on, is exactly the same method that's producing life saving vaccines which you so happen to be against.
If you took the time to get an education you may one day realise that in the world of science, opinion counts for nothing.
dear Jut what makes your information so reliable ?!
You are doing the very same thing like my , finding web sites to support your opinion , just like I do!!!
I can say the same thing about your propaganda , you making a serious mistake in believing that the vaccinations are save and tested!
Of course the pharmaceutical industries has to propagate that it is save to take vaccinations , because their motivation is billions of Dollars( money talks , bull shit walks), as for people speaking out against vaccination , they are not getting paid for doing so!
I think people have the right to see both sides of the story and then they can say for themselves what is wrong or right!
Before anybody takes the vaccinations, they need to ask the doctor to inform them of possible side effects , which are mentioned in the information sheet of any medication !
Everybody has the right to know.
Yet again you're spreading dangerous information....
Meanwhile in the real world, clinical trials for the H1N1 vaccine are going ahead as expected with no adverse side effects reported
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-09/nioa-eri092109.php
http://zikkir.com/health/4758
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/20/h1n1.flu.kids.trial/
http://pregnancy.about.com/b/2009/09/11/clinical-trial-of-h1n1-vaccine-in-pregnant-women-begins.htm
I just hope a mod sees fit to delete both your threads as they pose a health risk to anyone who takes them seriously.
yes, like I said the US wants to do it, but doesn't have the legal back up for it , as of yet!
Maybe the GC wants to do , I don't know, BUT as of right now , it has not be pronounced , nor enforced!
So ,it has been all talk so far !
I dug this information from one the links that you posted,
Federal quarantine authority is limited to diseases listed in presidential executive orders; President Bush added "novel" forms of influenza with the potential to create pandemics in Executive Order 13375. Anyone violating a quarantine order can be punished by a $250,000 fine and a one-year prison term.
What makes you believe the GC will not follow suit?
Be careful for QL long list of names, they are embossed into my toilet tissue roll.
Your name is probably the next one to be stain severely!
Graduated from Xavier Institute for Higher learning
There was something in the Gulf Times a week or so back about a vaccination for all residents.
And pilgrims MUST have the vaccination before they will be allowed to go to Hajj this year.
legal pad,I understand this is a Kingdom, but Who says , we will be forced to be vaccinated?!
the USA was talking about it!
I must know something I don't , please let us know, how did you come to know of that?!
What would you do?
If the government of Qatar or other governments threatens with deportation, fines or jail terms to those people who refuse vaccinations?
I understand your concerns, I'll guarantee you there will consequences for those citizens that refuse.
Be careful for QL long list of names, they are embossed into my toilet tissue roll.
Your name is probably the next one to be stain severely!
Graduated from Xavier Institute for Higher learning