The salary gap explained.

Exactly Bachus, we need to show our negotiating power using selling skils and demand what we truly deserves for providing our professional services to Global markets :)

The problem starts only after a year or 2; when they start comparing with their western educated colleagues.

Or we can all accept that we are in a free market, and we should demand to be paid what we think we are worth BEFORE we arrive. If the salary is not adequate, we do not accept the job. Instead of blaming others for making more money we would then only have our selves to blame for not making enough.

Lets agree on a Peace Agreement to minimise the gaps :)

I really like your reply. Very educated and diplomatic. Your actions denotes that you are very logical and educated person. May your God bless and protect you.

Polka--not sure what rankings you are referring to, but The London Times had the following world rankings for Engineering

University of Texas 13

University of Michigan 14

India had none in the top 50

This seems to go against your statement of "Every country will have some which are better than the ones mentioned. Being an Indian I can guarantee these names For Engineering related Studies-IIT"

Source: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/

In case you call the Times biased in favor of the West, the highly respected Shanghai system ranked the top two Indian Universities in the 300-400 category and the 400-500th category. Admittedly, the Shanghai system weights science more heavily than the humanities. In very sharp contrast (using the examples I gave): Florida 42, Texas 29 and Michigan at 18. Perhaps this is why so many Asians are studying in the US and so few Americans elect to study in Asian universities for advanced degrees. It might also explain why Education City is composed primarily of American branch campuses rather than Asian ones.

BTW Oxford and Cambridge came it at 10 and 5.

I have no doubt that the universities you mentioned have some admirable qualities, but forgive me if I don't accept your "guarantee" about them being superior.

Perhaps this is the sort of shoddy workmanship that PeterGriffin was referring to when he made his comments. I don't work in his field, but I can certainly sympathize now. I can also see why you are so bitter about the salary gap. If I thought someone with the equivalent degree was being paid more, I'd be agitated too, but it seems the degrees are not so equivalent and that at least some of your bitterness is founded on misinformation.

Asia is not a single country like the U.S so cannot name one single university as good for all,...Every country will have some which are better than the ones mentioned. Being an Indian I can guarantee these names For Engineering related Studies-IIT, For Management courses-IIM, Design Related-NID Ahmedabad.

As far as world ranking goes[I don't understand how the ranking is done] the first Asian Univ has the 53rd position, but then again Oxford and Cambridge comes 18 19 respectively!

Peter, you hit the nail in the Head!

This distinguish between Professionalism and Non Professionalism, commitment and Quality of work, against the pay package.

Asians are quick learner and adaptable to changes. Every individual is different in perspective of personality, method of learning and its application.

Thats why my point is either Westerner or Asian, characteristics are mainly depends upon his up bringing and education.

Qatar is a place, full of second/third quality Asians; who slog and struggle to survive in their respective fields.

All top quality Asians migrates to US and UK

Those find difficult to understand these gaps are generally young and amatuer; need to analyse and learn different management styles / perceptions

Agree with Peter.

I'm also still waiting for someone to give me an example of an Asian university that is the equivalent of an American one. I'm not even asking for the equivalent of Harvard. How about a decent state university like the universities of Michigan, Texas, or Florida?

PeterGrifin... you made some valid observations regarding punctuality, slipping on dates, language barriers, poorly dressed and who dont know much about what they are doing and inability to stand up to others when needed.

It always ends up being a war of nationalities and everyone becomes so Patriotic, which is pathetic.

OK, let us assume education is the same, which is clearly not the case. 95% of far east managers i dealt with in Qatar, were never punctual, slipped on dates, had terrible language barriers, poorly dressed and simply did not know much about what they were doing.

However, they were nicer in person and more polite. But in the business world this translates to being easier to manipulate and bully around. This never happens with western managers here.

Please don't take this as racist because that is just silly. If you can't see why westerns get paid more in here, then it is fair enough to assume that you will not get it through reading a QL thread.

Everything has its price in life. You get paid for what you bring. There is no magic. Trust me, if you were some Asian genus that they heard about and want, they would bring you on a contract that any westerner can't dream to get.

I personally think, your high numbers and your extreme need for immediate jobs make you the victims of these circumstances. Also, start standing up to others when needed. It is great to be nice but hey... you don't want people to walk all over you while you look down and say think you...

Victory...it is called Amaya Men's Salon, 3rd Floor, extreme right corner (I guess so) in Lamcy Plaza (Tel: +971 4 335 3282)...the persons name is Ali....& you are welcome..:)

More here:

http://www.idm.ae/almaya/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=99&lang=en

Prism.....on a serious note; can you share the contact detail of your hair dresser in Dubai; will surely visit to change my hairstyle. Thanks in advance.

polkadots: couldn't have said it better my self.

Prism: Very well said.

Just coz ur white doesn't mean you are right.

Triplicate

duplicate

pls read the whole debate, there are many factors involved in ascertaining ones salary package.

QS...just comparing nationality/cost to value benefits in return. Pay more to get quality job and vice versa.

The result is same either for skilled or unskilled labors; there are certain exception to the rules as well

Some people here still talking and comparing about educated Vs uneducated....not sure if there is any common sense...the salary gap here is about 2 people Same educated handling Same job BUT different salary coz just the matter of where they were born..

AGAIN WHEN IT COMES TO STYLE YOU ARE AGAIN REFERING WITH WESTERN CUT. HAVE YOU EVER WORK WITH FILIPINO? DO YOU SEE THEM GIVING EXTRA EFFORT TO PLEASE YOU? WHAT YOU HAVE ORDERED IS WHAT YOU GET.

For hair dresser part...I would agree as I also go to a Jordanian guy for hair cut for similar reasons...I feel great after I leave the shop and the shop is neat, the guys are neat and well behaved to spend that much time....:) It was different though when in UAE...used to drive all the way from AD to Dubai for hair cut...had an awesome Indian guy with his equally awesome shop there who in fact gave me even the new hair style which I have now....and I just love it....:)

while filipino cutting your hair may be he's feeling dizzy. Lol!

qatarium must learn the map instead.

qatarisun. Arabs are considered Asian too, why do think Asian cup includes Qatar & other middle east countries just for show? Isn't it ironic?

i know british barber he is the H.R. Manager of a big company.atleast earning 35k....

n a filipino engr. 12k......

really quailfied equality.

this is called BARBARISM.....

BESIDES 75% OF EUROPEANS JUST SPEAK BUTLER ENGLISH.

CANT CHANGE THE RULES OF THE WORLD ,BUT DEMAND MORE FROM URSELF,ONLY THEN U R UNIQUE....

IMPORTANT COMMONALITY- ALL ARE SEMI CIVILISED SLAVES OF MODERN IMPERIAL BUSINESS OWNERS.

Cupid, it's part of Middle East. When I say 'asian' i refer to filipinas, but in politically correct way.. just FYI.

qatarisun... FYI, Lebanon is part of Asia.

.. so when I need some routine casual job and want to save some money, sometimes I go to the agian hairdresser.. but for important job and/or in important cases, I definitely go to the western one..

I think every employer is acting more or less the same..

I know one thing. When I leave western (or lebanese male) hairdresser and when I leave asian hairdresser I look completely different .

Yes, they do "the same job" and even same movements: they shampoo my hair, they take scissors, they make haircut, then they style my hair with the blow dryer... but the result is dramatically different..

And yes, to have a great look, I have to pay twice as much to the western hairdresser, which i don't mind..

I think it explains a lot..

healthy discussion. Well said Mandi :)

A and W is two different world, education set up, cost and life style hence it is wrong to compare with.

No doubt westerners are paid more for many reasons explained in above comments.

We Asians should stop complaining; as somebody rightly said that they are not deciding their own package.

Lets identify our own faults and work to identify and realise our True worth, be confident, demonstrate our skills/contribution and negotiate with BOSS positively.

Trust this will work.

PD: Great work, lets accept the fact that Asian with western education shines in all fields.

@Mndi, If it is not clear from my earlier posts, let me categorically state that I am not undermining the quality of some Western Universities but the fact that many Asians even after graduating from such univs find themselves being undercut. The comparison is between an equally educated ie, same univ degree and experience Asian and Westerner. A westerner from an O.K [Not so great] Univ has a better chance of finding a managerial position where as an Asian from a similar univ in Asia or even from the West itself get labeled along with his peers from the country. How can you explain this particular occurrence here that, White South Africans who speak a heavily accented English are considered as Native English speakers and are preferred over perfect English speaking Asians, but this privilege is not available for any other ethnic groups of SA!. The ME, has a long way to go before they start looking at a person and his qualification and not start with his nationality, their visa system too has a hand in this policy. And if ,as you say that the salary system is like this, not need to even say any thing about it, and if you don’t like it leave don’t you think the same has to be applied to all the Westerners cribbing on QL and every where else, about every thing from the roads to the malls….. to you -name –it?

True Skittles, that feeling of power which your country has created for you is slowly eroding, don’t believe me? Look at the positive productivity of your youth -who are the future of your nation; in terms of High school drop outs, Drug abusers, Gangs, Teenage pregnancies, statistics in your own country ,and find for yourself which demographers The Asian students there or someone else are featured more?.So how will the West, with not enough “in-house” heads to fill up their own positions offer the same quality that people associate with being a westerner,? And to top it all Western univs are now finding an exodus of students from Asia,[ I would send my kids too if I had an opportunity]With the number of extremely qualified, multilingual , well bread Asians and “meeker’ as in your own words, are increasing at a very fast pace … yes, today it is better to be a white westerner for better job prospects , but it might turn into a liability at the turn of a generation!

atleAst indian doesN'T lick western ass as what westerners do. LOL!!!

Fisrt wash your mind and purify your heart.since most indians especially those belongs to kerla are problem creator in every organization,you will never acheive this western salary coz of your damn & blush mind..Correct yourselves then ask for the right things,otherwise you would cleared from the gulf.Even you should not compared yourselves with wertern.They had been f***ed you for more than one century... and still you're cheaper heck.....

Bachus...agree...nothing more to say.

i have nothing more to say but i know what and where westerners are great and that is taking us Filipino on their right hand to have their firm run successfully.

Prism--I would say the company will pay as little as it can. So if the Asian is willing to take less salary for the same post, then that is what it will pay. It is not the company's fault and certainly not the Westerner's fault.

Having said that, if the company advertises a position it usually has a salary range in mind, rather than a specific figure. It's up to the company to decide how much extra it wants to spend on what it perceives is a top recruit in order to persuade that person to take the job. If the recruit is in a high-paying job already, he/she is unlikely to take a pay cut.

To put it simply--Westerners, like Asians, require a higher salary that what they would receive in their home countries to come to Qatar. Offer them less, and they won't come. It's up to the company to decide whether or not the person is worth the premium.

I think the main point is, if there is a job 'X' for which two candidates are selected, one from an Asian country (A) and one from a Western country (W), should they be paid different salaries, where W > A.

Polka--I am not missing the wider point being made by some on this thread.

If an Indian and an American graduate with the same degree from the same university and with the same employment record and experience are being employed by the same company in Qatar to do the same job, but being paid grossly differently, I'd love to hear about the case.

But something tells me such examples are unheard of.

But my main point is this: employers have the right to offer whatever salary they want, just as prospective employees have the right to reject the offer. If you believe you are being undervalued, ask for a raise or work somewhere else. So long as you short-change yourself, others will too.

btw I agree with Mandi--huge differences in styles and quality of education between India and the US. That is why so many Indians are studying in Western universities but so few Westerners studying in India.

Polka dots that latter was set by countries, power, ways of life, economics, governments and politics, and by achievements of the citizens and the places they hold in society. It's all about power, sad but true, and maybe there are some Indian colleges better than Unites States, but because of the reasons stated only one degree will be nationally honored.

PD, I think you are missing the point that it is commonly agreed that Western and Asian universities have very different styles of teaching and learning, issues that deal with the management of personnel and problem solving. Note that I am not saying one is better than the other. What I am saying is that one seems to be more in demand in Qatar.

Mandi

Bachus , You are missing the point here, I am not saying that all Indian Universities are equal to ALL the U.S ones , some are same , some are better some are worse, my point is how can one explain the difference for an equally educated Asian and Westerner? more preference for the latter, just for being a Westerner?

Spybot--and NO Asian has ever lied about their credentials, of course. LOL.

Dunno, spybot, it's a little hard to fudge credentials with references, background checks and a security clearance required by the US universities for faculty here.

Mandi

Look yes I am comparing that's the real world and I'm sorry some of you don't want that slap of harsh reality, you busted your @SS in school to get a high ACT score to get into a good college and get Nationally recognized degree so your chances at getting a job and beating the competition are higher and better, no matter where you are in the world or what country you come from, and it's not my fault or any westerners fault that our education system is better and our degrees are more valuable and I'm not saying this to brag or to be rude, I'm stating the facts nothing personal. Most Americans spend a good chunk of their salary after graduating paying off student loans. And paying off my student loans is a huge part of why I chose to take the job in Qatar with a higher salary. We don't get our education handed to us, most college student work and go to school in hopes for a better life and a better job that's not minimum wage. So please don't sit here whining about salaries. I waited tables all through highschool and college making minimum wage, so I can put myself through school and get the job that I wanted wth the pay that I DESERVE..

Wow. So much sour grapes.

I love how posters are attacking each other for accepting contracts that pay more. What are the angry people expecting Westerners to do, reject salary offers because Asians in equivalent positions are not paid as well? Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that is what YOU would do? What an enormous sense of entitlement some people have.

Businesses exist to make money. If an employee is willing to work for less, then he/she will be paid less. If you don't like your salary and benefits package demand more. If your employer agrees that you are invaluable to the company, he will pay you more. If he disagrees, which is his right to do, you will have the option of keeping your current position or quitting.

To expect others to take pay cuts or to apologize for being paid more, is the height of ridiculousness.

Polka--there are lots of people with elite US degrees in Qatar, but virtually all of them are Americans and they work for the American Universities or the American companies because of tax liabilities and benefits. And say what you like, but Indian universities are way behind US ones. If they were equal, then Americans would flock to India for a cheaper better education, and Indians would stop flooding into the US. And no, I am not American.

I have been in Q for going on for 4yrs and I have found many of the westerners are just full of BS. They have the gift of the Gab and bull@#$% there way through things and yes the people that do the interviews are either of their own kind or some national that does not know any better.

At the place I work it was found tht people from some western countries actually had no qualifications as stated on the CV's how they got through the 1st time only tht person will know.

On the other hand I have come across asians that have qualifications and are not in positions that they suppose to be in and yes it all boils down to cheap labour from the asians side and bull@#$% from certain westerners.

Well, I actually wasn't even talking about salary, only motivation for coming to the Gulf, but in my experience one is paid according to one's university degrees plus where one's experience comes from. One of my husband's co-workers is from Pakistan but he is paid handsomely because of his US degrees and experience. I'm not judging the comparable worth of universities, but evidently someone is!

Mandi

True it's racist because people get higher salary based on race & not on skill. Loud voice is not a managerial skill it just shows how a person can boss people around but a good manager has the ability to handle people without the need to rise a voice especially if the work is fluid, there's no reason to get angry. Not all westerners graduated from Harvard but if they do, it can be a valid point. Why do Qatar need to have two years ban? Because one of the reason that can be acknowledge is that people will try to look for another job once they felt the salary gap does matter. Salary should be based on skills in general not on anything else & surely even westerners who thinks like that would agree especially if they're more skilled compared to their superiors even if both of them got the same passport.

I think it is a useless debate who gets paid what and why...end of the day, if talking of only monetary gains (though there can be other considerations specific to individuals), I found the offer acceptable and so I came here ...to cry foul after coming here and knowing things isn't right IMO. However, stereotyping that everyone who came from west definitely had a better life and whoever from India (or any other Asian country) definitely had a bad life is also not right. Same goes for skill set. We all are here for our own individual reasons, why get carried away by useless comparisons and feel miserable about ourselves and create unpleasantness.

Good to know you Mandi,And congratulation on your noble choices. Excepting the exceptionals, Pls tell me are the Westerners getting employed here from one of Ivy leagues only, No body from similar Asian Univs here?, and this explains the salary difference of the Asian and Westerner? I am not discussing your competency or lack of it, I am sure you, being a Harvard graduate justifies your pay packet but please do not use that as an argument to support the other people.LOL, If I were to use personal experiences, My husband, an Indian , graduated from a regular Indian Univ, currently occupies a position which previously was held by a Canadian and my hubby gets paid more due to the yearly revisions for the post, so can I safely assume that there is no “Pay by your nationality” system here?

I know several other Harvard (and other Ivy League) people are here besides my husband and myself. With an average of 20-plus years experience. So we do exist. But we certainly didn't come for the money or the purported lifestyle. We came because we share Sheikha Moza's vision of education and empowerment for a newly emerging country, especially the women. Has it been easy or comfortable? No, but we are glad we did it. It's not all about money! Believe me, we have lots of options, just as well-paid. We chose the Gulf. And we certainly seem to be appreciated, thank you! So let's not get carried away with derogatory stereotypes. I'm sure you'd think I'm very nice and very competent were you to meet me.

Mandi

Mnabster, For whatever false mental satisfaction the Westerners are hired for, it is soon eroding, due to the following facts

[1]Lower birth rates in the west and hiher instanced of the available youth going astray ie gangs, substance abuse so that now the West itself has started to rely on the Asian youth to pay their retirement money and keep the society going

[2]When better Universities were available only to a Westerner they were placed in higher positions, but now the scale is slowly shifting, More and more Asian students are getting admitted in western univs, due to a shortage of local students, declining birth rate, more high-school dropouts, so that more and more Young Asians are now better educated that their Western counterparts. This situation is getting graver by the day,20- years down the line there is a good likely hood of there being more Better educated Asians than Westerners .

So Pal, the concept of employing a Westerner for better productivity is slowly eroding, already gone in the West itself, and will slowly trickle down here too, You will have a better chance than your Asian counter part here in the ME, But don’t count on the same benefit at the time of your’s kids employment, for there will be 100s of equally or better qualified Asians giving the same out put, for a lesser pay! Who then would want these expensive show pieces, would become as redundant as the British Monarchy . Sorry to burst your bubble so early.

@Skittles, So when comparing an Asian and a Westerner you want to compare Harvard with a local University!!! … And here I am thinking Harvard was an Ivy league setup! …..any ways, from my experience from reading else where, Harvard looks pretty decent to me, and should ideally be compared with at least IIT, IIM of India, and like wise universities in other Asian countries, So tell me how many Harvard and IIT /IIM Graduates do you see here in Doha, are you telling me the average Westerner here is from the Ivy League univs and so the higher Pay? An Ivy league graduate would be staying back in the golden land of opportunity ie, back home and not sweat it out here where every thing,… right from roads to you- name it seems to be “not up the standard”!What’s more the money value is 3.6 to 5 times lower. So an average Westerner here is not the one of the best talent the land has to offer, whereas an Asian here would be, They are in a better country from their own with the money 14 to 30 times higher! So the competition to get here from their homes countries is TOUGH.

Now to clear a very misplaced thought of yours, you think screaming is the way to get work done, is the best management technique ???and you call yourself a part of the “highly paid “western work force? Like I said before the best from your land never dreams of coming here and this is the real quality of the ones who ventured to this desert. Allow me an Indian that too one of the “bowed- silent- ladies!”, to point out to you that Recent neuroscience studies contain useful lessons for managers:

Don't make your employees feel dumb or incompetent--this will make them worse at their jobs.

The "fight-or-flight" response to threats has been studied by psychologists for decades. When animals - including humans - are in pain or physical danger, their neural activity changes radically in ways that help them focus on the threat and confront or escape it effectively. But this focus comes at a cost to other brain functions. A person in danger is better at fighting, but worse at thinking.

Phew, That’s my free lesson for the day, for ALL further info you may Google or get yourself a Management/ Organizational Behavior Book, will make the higher salary paid worthwhile.

The comparison here is between similarly educated employees doing the same job, but from different countries, not between a Vet Dentist and a Dentist!

mnabbster, you mean he's igniting flamable westerners and cool asians?

And considering the Bull - S ** the economist has posted as resons .I request the QL Admin to revoke his User Id and ask him to change it .He doesn deserve to hold the title of a economist even on a virtual platform . My reccoo call yourself a drunken degenerate.:) Cheers all . Have a nice day

skittlle and peter grif . i am confuused . i really need to rip off my hand and throw at you .. dont know who is more deserving.

Skittlles .. haah .. ur boss is the cliche bosss you seee on daytime soap opera. what makes you think its necessary to shout or its the only way to get things done in a organization . You might have seen a few housewives in lulu hypermarket doeasn mean the Indian women lack the resources to shout at you and make you do the work you are supposed to do by default .

I am not even bothering to go after your dentist and cow teeth thing .Its smart of you come with something funny like that considering your educational qualification . wher the *freak(you know what i mean ) have to got your degreee..

Bring on a un biased recruting and . I am sure the comapny could atleast could have got 10 asians who can do you your job better for lesser pay .

BuT NO"" they want to make it more globally appealing by having white people.

So skittless eat your cake . dont brag about it .

my foreman was western, he doesn't speak english and know nothing but suspecting that we are talking behind him because of laguage barrier but still he's receiving 300% highier than i'm getting plus good accommodation. Now till me if it's not about country!

Hi skitless . I think I love you .I was always fascinated by blondes.:)

Polka love your five point explanation \m/.

I am still very very curious . Why are they paid so much .

I have to honestly disagree with the author of the original post, not on the content itself but on the topic. Our past experiences have taught us that some things have to be said because they represent the absolute truth and some have to go under complete silence because it instigates people . In this particular case, the author has (and I wonder if he did this on purpose or not) instigated the forum to racism. Westerners, Asians or Qatari, we all have the right to leave based on the standards we are used to, following the traditions we have been used with. Due to globalization and thus migration, we are now leaving in a country with very different customs and traditions we were not used with and thus, not only politically but also from a human perspective, we have to obey, respect and understand the customs in this country, without bringing any offense to the local people who have kindly allowed us to stay in their country, being at least 7-8 times more than the local population (please consider this a serious issue rather unique in the entire world).

Regarding the content itself, I want to remind everyone that we have all moved in this country based on the mutual agreement between the parties. If we agreed at that point in time on the salaries/benefits/allowances, there is no point to come back now invoking differences between nationalities and passport colors.

The post and all the replies emphasize in my mind the idea of us, the human race, in a continuos and accelerated stage of auto destruction. I'm very disappointed.

Point noted. Let me try again. You said "Salary gap should exist based on education, and degrees, a person who graduated from Harvard is going to get paid far more than someone who graduated from some local college despite them doing the same job".... if read in isolation, I agree...but I chose to (logically) read "local college" as a ‘local college from an Asian country’ because of the same reason of you mentioning the surgeon, cow and Asian women, before and after.

Anyways, if any of my words did sound harsh, consider them deleted.

As an aside... let me quote the signature line of one of my favorite QLers, apt to our understanding or misunderstanding .... “This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects”.

Have a great evening ahead!!!

I'm really not trying to mock you, but read the first post you wrote again and see why I said it doesn't make sense. "Doesn't fly with you" that phrase alone is creepy enough, so no please don't attempt to rephrase anything on my behalf

skittles007..... stating what some one wrote didn't make sense or the sentences were not well formulated is an old style of ridicule...it doesn't fly anymore, not with me. Anyways, since you started with a heart surgeon from India then mentioned a cow and then about the behavior of Asian women I logically concluded that your ire was directed at the Asians, more so towards Indians. And IMO I am not wrong in concluding so because the post itself is about the pay difference between Asians and Westerners in Qatar and reasons thereof. Hope it made sense this time else let me know, would try to rephrase.

Prism with all do respect please write well formulated sentences to get your point across because that just didn't make any sense. I didn't say anything about Asian colleges, but yes again just because you have a degree from an Asian School it doesn't mean it's nationally recognized and that's the difference. Anyways I gave up trying to make sense of anything your wrote, I guess it's just another example of "just because you think you speak English doesn't mean you do

Interesting, a Harvard graduate is compared with a graduate from a local (not equally renowned) college of an Asian country.... didnt knew Harvard standards where so low...anyways, how would I know, you know and so I have nothing to argue here. BTW thanks for tacit praise of the Asian colleges, though after this day it wouldn't matter.

Another interesting bit, 5% westerners (obviously as we know they dont work as laborers) being compared to laborers...talk of standards of whom. Who is deluded?

To carry on my point, if people are arguing that Asians who make up 55% of the population are similar in standards to the 5% Westerners here then you are clearly deluded.

Fact of the matter is that Westerners here are on average much better educated, experienced and bring niche skill sets compared to Asians. That's why only 5% are "good" enough to be here.

Most Asians work in fields where they can be easily replaced, where supply greatly exceeds demand and hence do not command a premium.

and sorry some Asians have no clue about management, they take a lot of crap from people and Asian women in general are too damn nice, maybe it's a culture thing, but it's frustrating when you see asian women walking with their head down or afraid to speak, up. I can't see an Asian woman as a manager yelling at an Arabic guy even if she is his boss. However I can tell you my boss is in her 30s she's from New York and I have seen grown men shake when they walk in her office, she is tough as nails hell even I make all my stuff is done and everything is researched before I dare to walk in her office.

Westerners that come here earn a high salary because they wouldn't be here otherwise (pay back home is pretty good anyway by global standards).

This isnt to say all Westerners would get a high salary; clearly those who would be paid a lot less than back at home would not come here (with one or two crazy exceptions).

Asian that come here will accept much lower salary, because it is still a big increase compared to back home.

Net results is Asian Population ( Indian 20%; Filipino 10%; Nepali 13%; Pakistani 7%; Sri Lankan 5%) > 50% of the population.

Westerners < 5%

salary gap exist everywhere.if a heart surgeon from India comes to the united states, sorry your degree isn't recognized and most likely he will be working as a taxi driver until he puts himself in medical school and takes the required exams to become a doctor in the united states so yes there is a huge salary gap in the Now if Qatar abided by the same rules maybe medical care wouldn't be so crappy in this country. sorry pullng teeh off of a cow in your country doesn't mean your a dentist. Salary gap should exist based on education, and degrees, a person who graduated from Harvard is going to get paid far more than someone who graduated from some local college despite them doing the same job. Its how the world works.

OK, so nobody thinks that Westerners (in general) have different management and problem-solving styles that an employer is willing to pay a premium for? Or lot more years of experience since the Westerners I see are quite a bit older than the average Asian expat?

Mandi

Sight.... read all through this and feeling so sick...Asian accepted the offer bcoz it better in our own country with someway "yes". but when a chicken lay out two egg one is 2$ n one 0.50$ what a ridiculous. Whatever, it is still what it is and they have the fully right as here is their country but abit funny as well that people still mind about the outlook or national background.

let me ask you a question. who are you to determine that a person who has a western passport is more capable of doing a certain job than one with an Asian passport and asian education ? its all based on the image that qatar has of the west and i`m assuming people like you are also taking advantage of it. getting a job shud be based solely on merit rather than "passport" or skin color.

"Dont judge a book by its cover!"

There is no standard rule which applies to this policy.....several factors involved such as political, economical and financial status of the respective country, considering in fixing the pay for an individual's based in merits, Focussed Specialised Education, Personal life style, Presentation and communication skills, accent, clarity of thoughts, management & people mgmt skills, clear vision, highly passionate and above all RIGHT Attitude towards job.

Those who have the above attributes PAID MORE irrespective of Asian or Westerners.

Fully agreed:-)

Is there a rule that a partcular no. of westerners or a partcular no. of Asians are to be employed...cos if it is then it needs to relooked at by whosoever as it doesnt justify the cost benefit analysis (may be the pinch isnt felt now as oil is flowing and everything seems fine but then it was the same just a few months back with several countries before the economic collapse/ difficulties currently faced by them due to their unruly behavior when it came to spending and hence should be act as an eye opener)...if not then the arguement of less people or more people from a particular part again doesnt fit well.

As for the arguement that the Asian countries cannot provide to their fellow citizens the kind of income they can have here and so they run to this part and hence should either be complaining to their govts. or shut up, guess this statement falls flat in the eye of the fact that the said asian countries are developing countries (I am bit generous in using this word) with population much much larger than the developed countries...so if a developed country cannot provide its handful (yeah, comparatively) of people with what they expect should the people from Asian countries be advised to shut up when the basis of arguement for equality of benefits is "JOB" for which one is hired, irrespective.

Wasnt it Aramco the first to implement this strategy?

don't accept and go to Qatar if you do not want the salary package... and if you accept it, please do not compare. we have our own way of life, cost of living and necessity.

I second Xena, and I also don't understand why the guys accept the offers, which they are not happy with.

If I was offered QAR.5000, I would never come to qatar. Because almost the same amount I would get in my own country as a welfair. Why to bother?

Also, demand-supply rule is in force here. Higher supply - lower the price. It is not invented by Qatar. For 1 westerner looking for the job there are 1000 asians doing the same. Whose fault is that? no one's but the Goverments' in your own countries. If YOUR government cannot provide its citizens with the basic decent life, why to blame QATAR or WEST??

And like someone's mentioned, if tomorrow West collapsed and thousands and thousands westerners had to seek an employment... then yes, salaries or "westerners" will go down. Feel happier now?

Roman in Rome ;D

Speaking Chinese in Qatar, I mean useless discussion.period

Well what do you know, ....

Who cares if they can speak at all,! From the above posts one can infer that Westerners are paid to be Just Westerners, others are hired to do the talking , and sweating a condition hopefully is eroding fast.

Do the French or Germans speak good English?

working in a company where all westerners are paid less than Asians; Bcoz, it is owned by Asians, acquiring higher positions ;D

Chill Guys!

It is all about Merit,

Focussed Specialised Education,

Personal life style,

Presentation and communication skills (totally missing in Asians),

Accent, clarity of thoughts and positive attitude.

Those who have the above attributes PAID MORE irrespective of Asian or Westerners.

IMO, other Arabs are paid more bcoz of bi-lingual advantage on their side.....

MORAL: who cares who gets MORE, focus on our jobs, Be happy and self content. Take care and act responsibly.

I agree with victory.

Best to ask yourself if you feel you are justly compensate for your efforts. If they answer is 'yes', why worry about what someone else is getting. It won't change and will just lead to ulcers.

PeterGrifin,

And how , by just being a Westerner one can hope to be better at:

1- Practical experience:When we have more people in ALL age groups in Asia, not in the West, for perfection in any work comes from Experience how better to experience other than human interaction?

2- Working with latest technologies-The latest tech is available in most of the Asian countries these days, However why would one need to know about the techs which are not yet in use here, I know for a fact the difference in quality/ technology in the medical field in India and here, no points for guessing which is superior!

3- Presentable: That debatable, if wearing miniskirts and spaghetti straps are presentable in the West,ME certainly has got other ideas about dressing and Asians are better suited to keep the status quo in dressing conservately.

4- Knows proper English: Well educated Asians speak all the English required to do business here in the ME, Besides English, They also speak Arabic, and Hindi the other equally important languages in of the region, how many Westerners can communicate with the sponsor/Qatri owner in Arabic, with the various clients in English, with the Blue collared workers in Hindi/Urdu?Why have a chief who cannot feel the pulse of the market or the masses?

5- Very confident and management material.

What do you mean by this?... Let me tell you a story[sorry if it is a repetition….]

An egg jumped from the second floor and didn’t break , why? ……Because he was confident .

Now, the same egg had to jump from the first floor , but broke! why….Because he was over confident.

PeterGrifin... In fairness not all westerners have that kind of qualities & you can also include the English language too.

It is NOT about education only!

1- Practical experience

2- Working with latest technologies

3- Presentable

4- Knows proper English

5- Very confident and management material.

Please tell me, how many Asians you met have these above qualities to even compete with westerners. This is not Racist and I Love Asian people, but it really is not about the Degree you hold. It is WAY more than this. I am not saying No Asian people have the above qualities. Some do and when they do, this is when it is very unfair to get paid less. But in general, they don't have these qualities and it is not their fault.

Polkadots--I don't know exactly why companies feel a need to recruit Westerners when they cost so much more. But the fact remains that they cost more to persuade to come to Qatar, because they are typically higher-paid and have a higher standard of living in their home countries than their Asian counterparts.

If Asians feel they are being cheated, they have the option not to come to Qatar. Why should a company pay more for something when they can get it for less? When you go to the grocery, do you offer to pay more for an item if you think it is worth more or do you pay the advertised price?

Bachus, Why does a company "need" to persuade such a very reluctant person? What does a company stand to achieve more by employing a Westerner instead of an equally educated Asian, who is more in tune with the market/ lifestyle of the region and of the labor workers?

People are paid to come and work in Qatar. Apparently it costs more to persuade a Western professional to work in Qatar than it does an Asian one.

If the lower-paid Asians don't like it, demand more money or don't come. As long as you will work for less, you will be paid less.

It is that simple.

This model was first implemented by Aramco in Saudi Arabia. People doing similar jobs were categorised according to their country of origin. At the top was the USA followed by Western Europeans and Australians . The Third Country nationals were mainly those from Asia and developing nations. However in recent years the salary gap has narrowed significantly.

ho ho ho guys i think we were discussing about salary gap b/w asians and westerns

from no where how this hatered towards qatar and hatred towards each other came from

but yes the salary gap is a fact sorry western expats its a fact

theeconomist, your initial post was geared towards justifying the salary gap, whereas mine is the other way around, I fail to realize how I have reworded your concerns.

"Boycott Qatar"....hmmmm... west and westerners consider themselves as torch bearers against racism, why then do they leave no chance to boast about the huge sums earned out of a racial differentiation leveraged in their favor...shouldn't they be the first to boycott Qatar and the differential (plus) salaries offered.

Ever thought why the department runs smoother with a westerner as the head and not otherwise. Isn't it because of the same bias and hence the local support...shift the balance or remove the leverage and then we can see how things work.

^ Simple, hiring a westerner provides a sort of security. Blame it on colonisation if you will but we have this view that if you put a westerner at the head of X department that department will run smoother.

As for Samix the whole point of my piece was to shed some light on this so called inequality. For some reason you chose to look past my attempts to answer and simply reworded the initial question.

@ Xena

“What I will never understand, is why people bother to come to this country if they aren't happy with their salaries, when they know ahead of time what they will be receiving...”

If you read carefully , neither the OP nor all the "Cribbers" are crying about the salary they receive, it's more of something like this… they are told in their Native country about this job, salary, perks painted a rosy picture, only to come here and see that another person doing the SAME job is paid more, this leaves the person having serious doubts about his self worth and what went wrong with him for the company to be paying more to another person for the same work he does.....

Besides my question would be if two people are doing the same job and one is way expensive than the other, in these financially difficult times why bother with the expensive person?

Xena, you will understand this very soon, considering the collapse of the western economic system, and vanishing jobs in your home country.

Secondly, if you look at this argument objectively, it cannot be used as a rebuttal to unequal salaries issue, what you have to agree is that the salary gap between equals based on their nationality is not correct.

A more appropriate response to this by unbiased, educated humans should be to fix this, rather than use reactive statements like "go back", "why did you come here", which are easier said than done.

biggest issue here - What I will never understand, is why people bother to come to this country if they aren't happy with their salaries, when they know ahead of time what they will be receiving...

Also, if you are going to quibble about who earns more, its another reason to stand up and boycott Qatar(don't bother coming here) into knowing what they are doing is wrong (like they will really care).... It will leave more room for the country to hire those of us who are quite happy with what we earn...

I am so sick to the back teeth of people whinging about how much more this one earns or that one earns....

Its up to the businesses in Qatar to decide what to pay or not to pay... and nothing you can say will change that....

The respect, salary and benefits that a person receives at their work place should reflect the value that they add to their organization, this should be clear as a bright sunny day to all the westerners out here who oppose this, as they are supposed to be the torch bearers of teaching the world, Freedom, Equality and Fraternity.

Trying to obfuscate this free market principle with other spurious arguments and trying to pull red herrings is nothing but a feeble attempt at distorting truth and blatant hypocrisy.

theeconomist, don't try to divide and conquer, and pit us against the Qataris by writing things like "It's not Qatar's fault", we know it, we respect our Qatari colleagues, and we are happy for them when they get a salary increase, it's their country, it's their wealth, they have every right to it.

Akaka,

Those ones they bring here are "CONTRACTORS". You only acquire this title when you have LOTS and LOTS of solid, up to date experience in the domain you represent.

Contractors anywhere in the world are hired for a lot of money. In some countries they don't take things like health benefits just because they get paid so much.

While Asian and Westerner professionals might have great scholar achievements, the preference is made based on the up to date part and the post scholar trainings, which you don't find much in old school establishments.

Would you trust an Iphone that was "Designed" in China?

thx

their countries?

Sorry, I don't buy this argument. Very few are, most won't even be able to get a decent job in their native countries. I'm not saying they're useless, but they won't dream of 1/3 of the salary they get here.

Anyway, the salary gap is a complicated topic in this part of the world. The bottom line is that if any country is really serious about economical development and getting the best of their expats, irrespective of their countries of origin, they really need to rethink the whole process. Until then it's all a big show ... with no substance and no durable development.

Sadly it all falls down to bad management because if they're also doing their job, they'll evaluate all personnel & easily distinguish who's not fit for the job though I hate the idea of unfair salary gap but technically with the currency rate involve Asians pretty much earn more compare to Westerners especially when sending it back home. I guess this is one of the reason why most Filipino professional come & goes, because salary gap makes you think, when you know you're more capable of doing the job than your counter part who's earning more, better look for another company.

Color of skin do matters a lot ..

Just check the link below

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/2469931

having read all,,, It is conclusion that a Gap or running 2 parallel systems is actually not worthy for the Employer. there are number of factors which come into play.

secondly, for the market it will inflate with a drastic imbalance,,, imagine three engineers (of three already mentioned origins) on a same project, of the same protocol, doing same job, almost of equal profile & for lunch Two of them go to have a lunch served by the Ravish Quarks,, and other one thankful with a dry cucumber....

theconomist5,

I agree with what you said but I think people who complain are complaining at ones who perform the same role for much less money.

It is not someone's fault if in their country the money they get would st them on the 5 % most highly paid. If you get paid for what you can bring to your company, the you are getting paid for the knowledge you have. Anyone with this same knowledge, whether Asian or not, should get that same figure.

Salaries should be classified by the roles not by where a person was born.

@its my life

I hope i get a board of hiring panels like you :)

I think I just lost all sympathy for these people.

PS: Last time I checked India had the highest increase in billionaires. Ambani just built himself a billion dollar house.... Right next to where people live in slums.

Infact the biggest prejudice an Indian of low caste will receive will be in India. Dont need to come to Qatar to find inequality.

I agree with zeegee84.

Why westerners will come to GCC?

Because of their incompetency they have no jobs in local market. Now a day’s also due to downward economic graph.

All westerner are incompetent except few but all have good presentation skills.

Westerners take the interview of westerners & they qualify them. They train them on job.

Now we have a panel of interviewers of mixed nationalities, which resultant in 80% declined in westerner & Philippino applicants due to incompetency.

Sometimes the western people save or hide their guys fault & put the blame on the Asian and sometimes even on Qataris because they know the manager or director will listen to them.

if it comes to competency , arrange a test it will definetly show the result , Asians are more practical and have technical approach.

The salary should be depending on experience not the race or background

I am sorry JMan_12 If it hurt you, your level of frustration can be judged from your writings. Once again I am sorry to say that you looked at my profile but you didn't notice that I am from aviation industry. Your thought of mind echos inside oil well but we are talking in general.

Thanks you XceptionalGreat for appreciating.

very well said ..

Color of skin does matter a lot ..

Also, I have noticed the big difference in the package of an original British & a British Passport Holder Indian for the similar position !!

Those Westerners getting 35k+, Villas etc are most likely working in the oil industry. Oil price is over $100/bbl. There is a severe shortage of experienced people in the oil industry due to older folks retiring. Hence the high pay - not just in Qatar but all round the world.

I can also tell you categorically that highly qualified Indians - ie those from IIT or similar - are getting equally lucrative packages all around the world.

So to be clear these large salaries are for highly skilled specialist, usually from top universities, working in a sector with huge demand.

Salaries should be at par with skills & should not depend on nationalities.

Other things being equal for example company, designation etc. but westerners get very high salaries, luxurious villa with swimming pool & gym, perks & other allowances.

They get more than QR 35000/- (this is minimum) over & above they get education allowance, which forget about the Asians even Qataris don't get. Also if an Asian gets 10K & westerner get 35K who is more eligible for education allowances. I think Asian kids don't have good or quality education rights.

The guy who gets 10K or even less has more difficulty even to meet his monthly expenses in Qatar where cost of living is high.

Westerners get hazard allowance QR 5000 which the Qatari and Asian don't get in the same company; even they are working in the same hazardous premises.

Salary Gap or Memory Gap?

This should explain how westerners got high paid. They have the brain and well understand the work. BUT! don't forget my friend, not all countries have the same salary situation. If in India and Philippines have higher salary and benefits, what do you think? we will not be here to compete to them right, we will stay for our own country right.

If they could not find people to do the work for the salary offered, then things would be different. That and only that will force change. Just Saying.....

Oh boy, so many ways to destroy your argument. Im not even gonna try unless you post another ignorant 'explanation' of the open racism out here.

CATALYSTVHAI-'Qataris don't even know to work' is a very rude, and uncalled for statement. There are many hard working, professional Qataris who take pride in working for their country.It just shows how some expats view the locals and the country who pay expat wages- you're here to do a job not to criticise the local people.

I agree..the fate of many suffering asian workers...is not the doing or the responsibility of Qatar or Qataris. And also those who come and do worse than their native countries, income wise, must be a very small percentage.

well explained theconomist5,

I agree with CatalystVhai

and as you said thecomomist5,,, here the business owners are taking benefit of being their country poor and pay them as less as can be ,,,

but they dont think they are also living in qatar and purchasing form the same market,, why there is not every thing cheaper in the same ratio of their salary,,,

The employer know that this is the limit more then this he can not earn in his country so giving them little bit more then that here too. of course any body will like to get some more money so people come here to work, and its true that they can save some money better then their home country,,

but employer and the employing country should thing of their welfare and not to just think how to take fullest benefit from the poor people

And honestly every single person who is working here in Doha is working out of their own free will. No one is forcing anyone to work, I know this argument has been used to death but if you don't like it then leave.

what is your right to say leave?  did you give work or money to us?

Its all about the PASSPORT . Asians with Western Passports. Weather Educated from the Western Universities or from Asian Universities get HIGHER salaries ..

Qataris Dnt even know to work . But Its their Country

Who are the sufferer - Asian With Asian Passports .

Salary - B.Sc Eng with Asian Passport Passed from BUET ( Bangladesh University of Engineering Technology ) - 15000 Inclusive of All Allowances.

Salary of the Same Eng. Passed fro mthe same university but some how has a Western Passport - OMG 40,000 .

Your assumptions & justifications are not correct.

When someone talks about the salary gap, it means peer-to-peer difference.

For instance, an Indian Heart Specialist Doctor will not be getting the same salary as of his peer Qatari or Westerner.

This is common in other professions, like Engg, Management, etc, as well.

Though back in UK/Europe or US, all peers are normally under same grade & package.

i read ,

but a few even though highly paid keep on opening their big mouth and talk bad about the same country which fills their pockets

You didn't even bother to read.

Asian works for 8 or 9 hours

Qatari works for 8 or 9 hours

( a few of them just work for 5 hrs not my business )

Westerner same for 8 to 9 hours

Who is the one paid more ? offcourse a westerner