Western converts to islam?

Truth321: You should have read the original post. The question was not how to convert and not why to convert, the question was how to prove one's conversion in case it is legally required. As for your opinion, of course it counts as long as it is relevant.

Remember however, we have peace of mind here on this site and in Middle East in general by NOT discussing religion. Religion just exists.

Obviously grabbed the wrong end of the stick, so a westerner converting to Islam has nothing to do with religion???

Good point, how dumb could I have been, as for no one cares about my point of view, well thats just ignorance personified I believe.

Point proved!

I concur this was not a religious debate. Man everytime we start talking about boxing somebody has to pull Rock Marciano out of their .... lol

Act your age not your shoe size

The truth 321: My question had a purely juridical/casuistic background and please don't hijack the thread. If you want to discuss faith, do it elsewhere. Nobody cares what you think about your or other people religion.

All the topics on the Qatar Living site start off with good intentions, however, it seems the point slips. Each and every persons believes are personal, if they find that the way they feel and believe bends then let them.

Personally Im more aligned to Buddhism, however my faith and believes slip (see earlier notes).

However for me to suddenly wake up and want to change to Judaism/Islam/Catholocism etc I would need my head examined without comparation of my current religion and that of the one I wished to re-align to.

Granted there isnt a great deal of differences between the major religious beliefs (support my cause or you will go to hell), they all preach peace love and harmony, it is down to the individual to be able to follow what they have read.

What throws me the most however having listened and read the majority of religious texts is that ignorance is a sin!! Try telling me that the people we all meet on a daily basis are not ignorant!

sorry lost in translation. Their movies are very funny. The thing is they are very good story tellers. They usually drop some type of jewel

Tommy Johnson: I had to be up at that there crossroads last midnight, to sell my soul to the devil.

Ulysses Everett McGill: Well, ain't it a small world, spiritually speaking. Pete and Delmar just been baptized and saved. I guess I'm the only one that remains unaffiliated.

Qd06: Yeah, sure it's the Cohen brothers. Did I doubt it? What's your point?

The Big Lebowski..... Terramax that is the Cohen brothers for you. They make you laugh and think.

Act your age not your shoe size

Han19: Here is a translation "Don't entrust your thoughts to an oak chest, Entrust them to the paper so that everybody can see them" (and I would add "and wipe their asses with that paper").

Dvargas: Of course there are converts both ways because they change their mind and faith, whereas you have been talking about "you got divorced of your muslim wife and you resign their islam faith once divorced"

Remember the "Big Lebowski"? There was a polish catholic guy who converted to judaism to marry a jewish girl, and he remained a jew after divorcing her.

dvar goes off in another language i dont understand...cant even read it....pls translate.....

i know of muslims who have converted and the people discussing it didnt want to mention it in front of me....its doesnt bother me and it shouldnt bother anyone else either....its one's own free will to do as he/she chooses.ofcourse each congregation feels happy when a new member joins them from another religion.........but other than that its upto the individual what he wants to do with his religion.

as long as he true to himself and to Almighty.

Sorry Max, But there has being Muslims that converted to Jesus and Vise Versa.

Pensamiento del Dia:

-No confines tus pensamientos en una cajita de roble. Confinalos en un papel de escritura para que todo el mundo lo vea.-

http://www.qatarliving.com/qatar-forum/forums/free-will

Here.

I am...

really...death penalty..u joking or serious...

i dont think u need to leave a religion bcos u divorced from the spouse...its upto you to keep it and do otherwise.

as far as i know.if you are converting to the religion then u do get a certificate proving that you have and it will have the names of centre/mosque n people or authority who have witnessed the conversion.

for weddings...for ex in my case....my spouse belongs to another mosque and my father to a different one...so in our case it was both the maulvis who wanted the nikkah registered in the respective mosques......ego issues between the maulvis....didnt harm us in anyway...so i have two nikkah certificates with all details on it.

but i still had to have my legal marriage certificate from the court.

i dont think the religion comes on the passport but when u apply for any change in document....then u specify religion.....

...death penalty in some places if you do...

Dvartgas: you cannot resign a faith. It is a FAITH for God's sake, not a club.

Lets say: you got divorced of your muslim wife and you resign their islam faith once divorced? Do you need a piece of paper saying anything about it renouncing their faith?

Just a little pepper in this topic.

No es la maldad, si no la malicia de la calle que te ayudara.. Dego- reggaeton

Aisha,

Are you rushing the processs????? Sabr. Let the ink dry on the certificate.( Disclaimer: Joke)

Act your age not your shoe size

Mom says that QCPI would be better at helping you with this. Their number is 4885915- This is the ladies section fone no but they can transfer you. When our maid converted they presented her with a certificate stating that she's a muslim and she has to use it when going to Hajj.

Lmao ... :-)

Aisha, Bajesus - did you ask your folks?

I thought Jews get snipped also. In the US most people choose to do it to their babies now for hygeine reasons. I am glad my parents did it that way. Another friend who converted had to go through it as an adult. Really OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

Marriage is still a religious issue for many people in the US even if the spirituality of the moment has been lost. Especially in the South, it is still about class, family status, religion, and race. There are exceptions to the rules but for the most part things haven't changed.

Act your age not your shoe size

David,

I was not talking about conversion because of marriage. I asked how a western convert will be able to prove he is a muslim if he will have to - like in case of a marriage. Or hajj, or whatever.

Yeah man if you watched an old latino gang movie blood-in-blood-out then its kind of the same concept cause all you guys are focusing on the documentation when thats actually not necessary nobody here has a paper that officially confirms you are muslim, but we all got the snip!! OOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

This my radical point of view:

Sorry if I'm off the subject. But had to get it out of my chest.

The man converts to his wife’s religion for respect for her family, social status and economics.

But what happens when both individual love each other and conversion is a burden for both of them.

Why not the woman converts to her husband religion?

He has a family to respect and values to follow at the same time.

My opinion:

Love is blind in theory, but in reality Love and personal interest have an equal share in today’s modern way of life.

A traditional marriage comes with ages mandate by many things such as survivor of the race, tribalism, social status, religion and political gain.

If a man is willing to extend himself at the extreme of conversion in the name of love towards his partner, then let it be.

Don’t force religion into a man’s willingness and love towards his partner as proving point of loyalty of his love towards his companion.

Again the Question merges: What about the Woman? Does she has to prove or being force into it?

This is a complex issue with delicate sentiments, emotions and values rooted inside each man and woman hearts.

In Middle East, religion is the main ingredient, force, and deciding factor behind this matter. Let’s not forget the Families influence.

But in the west it does not matter. Marriage is declared as a social institution.

Respectfully

David

headaches...i would say not. u will have to ask my hubby for his version.........sweet.............definitely yes........always sweet...its like

"probably cant live with the headache but definitely n desperately cant live without it either :-)"

did i speak for the girls?????????

somehow this subject has been taking us off track more often than not.

terramax..sorry i didnt answer your question...i was feling tooo lazy today to do anything serious.

None taking, You're reply surely made me laugh real loud in my office.

FYI,we woman are sweet headaches. LOL

Qd06: "Act your age not your shoe size"

What do I do if both are the same number???? Of course I am not talking american sizes :)

lol, lol

dvargas said:

"God is a genius, he made woman to a perfection of headaches".

han19, b'fly, aisha, novita, Esl-T, princess....Are we??????

dvargas, is ur mom a headache to ur dad?(sorry to ask this)

Btw dn't forget w/out ur dad's headache, u don't exist.

FYI, we woman are sweet headaches. LOL

;-)

Act your age not your shoe size

Qd06: "Act your age not your shoe size"

What do I do if both are the same number???? Of course I am not talking american sizes :)

Butterfly I assume it was the sleep talking. Relax it was a joke :-)

Act your age not your shoe size

Butterfly : "Terramax & Princess - So are you a married couple? Are you not? "

Not in this incarnation, butter :) Btw. "bin his father" sort of sounds "and your mother too"...

Han19: I understood everything, but what really confused me is that you said something about "religion change in legal documents". Legal documents in non-islamic state which India is are by default laic.

Just answer me one question - is your religion mentioned in any state-issued document - like ID, passport, birth certificate, marriage sertificate, etc?

The thread albeit full of jokes (sorry, Aisha, and Princess!)is not a joke per se. I am genuinely looking for an answer.

Princess: "Terramax .. am joking ok, so don't start ;-)"

OK. I was about to give you my brand new platinum credit card for this shopping thingy, but if you say so...

Mrs. Novita

I get your point. I'm using my real name and not some nickname for the record.

Respectfully

David

One convicted felon told a judge once:

“I got nothing to hide", except my money in the bank.

The judge did ask the felon:

What money are we talking about?

Felon replied back:

Should I say?

What I own others in form of defaulted loans, an incoming bankruptcy, due to my incarceration and one nasty credit report.

Sleep well....

David,

I did ... but if you are the person i think you are ... you can go back in here with different user name.

It doesn't matter anyway :-)

Good night.

PS: Novita with Mrs in the front not Miss.

Miss Novita not really, look up profile and you will see the date I started to log in Qatar Living.

Respectfully

David

your signature remind me with somebody who used to post on here ...

BLAH! BLAH! Stay single is better.

Marriage is a moral and financial commitment.

Remember what the Priest said at the end of a wedding:

Until death do us apart!

That is your guarantee sentence, unless you get divorce then alimony, Child support, properties splits and you will grow old with white hair real fast and a bad attitude with a bad heart.

Respectfully

David

God is a genius, he made woman to a perfection of headaches.

:-) lol ...

no worries! thank you

ok then...

Good nite...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

your jokes have gotten our dear butterfly all worked up.

its all a joke, they have been at it from the beginning of this thread.its been fun reading them post their messages.

aisha dont worry , we wont take you the wrong way.

Dear noooo, none of what you asked about is right. He is just asking in general.. The rest are mere jokes. LOL can’t believe you actually believed or has doubts @@

Really you thought there was some truth in itttt… God, NO!

Guys please keep me awayyyy I don't like to see my name mentioned so much.. feels kinda itchy I dunno why LOL

I don't understand...

What's the joke...?

QD, what r you on about? "Liberated" women, what is that supposed to mean?

Terramax & Princess - So are you a married couple? Are you not?

Is terramax looking to convert to Islam so he can marry Aisha? Can he get a document to prove that he has converted? Will he change his name to Abdullah Terrahmedx bin his father?

Princess,

You really haven't been around Muslim women...... In my opinion they sometimes have more thoughts,opinions and jewelry than "liberated" women. :-)

Again a joke so don't send the liberated women mafia after me. Terra just marry someone older by that time the mother in laws are to busy with other kids and grandkids to meddle so much :-) or as a Indian friend told me move to a place with a lot of stairs and you will never have to worry about your inlaws visiting :-)

Act your age not your shoe size

We are all jokinggg princess..

:-D

Let's get back to the serious question that our Hus.aaaa.friend asked LOL

I still have my own thoughts and opinions, so I could not possibly be her... but I can see how the shopping thing would have thrown you off...

Terramax .. am joking ok, so don't start ;-)

i seem to confuse terramax most of the time.i dont know anything about pakistan.

india is a democratic country and a secular country,many religions living together. but in the face of secularity lot of wrongdoing take place.

there was a recent legislation in some states that if a person wants to convert then he has to sign an afidavit that he is in sane mind and out of any sort of pressure willingly making a conversion of his religion. this is because in some rural places, people were forcibly converted then reconverted. to avoid this, its all put down clearly in black and white.

it could be a different story over here in the arabic countries, simply bcos its an islamic country..for ex..back home even if you married by religious rites, u need to carry out a civil marriage, bcos legally they do accept the nikkah (islamic marriage) documents, but they prefer to see the court approved papers.thats not a pressure u get here in doha, for all my documentation purposes i would give my nikkah documents, but even the civil marriage certificate would do the work.

its just different ways of handling the same situation taking into the consideration the kind of place you are living in.

regarding the qazi,he is an individual registered to perform his activities by religion and by law...bcos india does not follow shariah.

this has been my understanding on the subject all along...if anyone else knows more about this...then pls indulge......

I'll ask for you too.

QD06 - the real problem would be to have three mothers-in-law! That's the only problem which keeps me from doing it;-)

Terramax,

You must be really wealthy. You have to be a millionaire to have three wives with the cost of living(Qatari rent) and the cost to maintain a wife especially in some Islamic countries.

I hear about the amount of money and gold given for dowries in some countries and it scares me. I think you need to recalculate your plans I think Aisha maybe out of your budget.. but you never know :-)

If want the certificate I can print you out one from my computer real nice with fancy borders.

Act your age not your shoe size

We usually change our names due to the fact the names usually given are Christian names which usually have no meaning. A name should be something that reminds you or you have to live up to. My father gave all of us Islamic names and also a name from our family. I have my mother's father name a my middle name.

Abdur Rahman sounds better to me than Bob or Robert. In most cases the names given to our families were names of Slave masters and not our own. Abdur Rahman is a name that reminds me of who my creator is, I am sorry but Bob does not. My families original name was Towns whose family were big Slave owners and politicians where my family is from in the America. So to me it has no significance besides being the name of people who oppressed my ancestors.

What would you do if the British had made you guys change your names would you change it back to an Islamic name or leave alone? If your parents named you Emily which has no significance to Islam instead of the beautiful name of Aisha. To many Muslims around the world converts and born Muslims these names are Islamic names not Arab names. Even though I have had to constantly tell people in America how to pronounce my name correctly. I always like explaining to them what it means .... i.e Dawa to Allah SWT and more reward for me. The chance I would never get if my father named me Bob Johnson or if Cassius Clay did not become Muhammad Ali.

Act your age not your shoe size

Next1: Han19 was talking about India,not an arabic country. I always thought of India being a democratic laic country, perhaps I was wrong.

Aisha, no...Princess is my 2nd wife (sorry hon, I had to give out this little secret), you will be the third :)

Most arabic countries do state your religion in official documents (ID's Passports etc...), but as the convert's keeping original nationality, most of western countries do not mention anything about religion. so no change there

Next1: cool, that means I have one more to go (that is if Aisha and Princess will agree).

But let's not turn the trend into a joke, the original question was serious.

Han19: What do you mean by "change religion in official documents"? Does it mean that your religion is mentioned in documents issued by the state? And how come that imams are related to the city magistrate? Is India not a laic state? Or you are talking about Pakistan?

new country = new rules...

over here you are allowed 4 wives.

You love shopping, right ;-)

looool :-D

Hope you dont mind being Terramax's 2nd wife, as his first wife is in Europe at the moment shopping LOL... and Terramax I wonder how Mrs will feel about you approaching Aishia's Father... mmmmh

It’s weekend now.. sooo I can’t call any place till Sunday. Sorryyy.

By the way, I don’t like it when people change their names after converting to Islam (though many famous ones did it.) Coz it’s the same person still.

in india, if u need to convert then you have to follow a legal procedure where some affidavits have to be signed, the court need to know that you are planning on converting. i need to still check into this matter.

over and above that conversions take place in the presence of witnesses..u cant take a guy to one corner and make him recite the faith.......usually its done in mosques or islamic learning centres in the presence of a qazi. Qazis need not necessarily be the local Imam, but are appointed by the Waqfs and in conjunction with the city magistrate.they have the authority to grant permission to marry, change of religion.

name change is not necessary, but if you want to change the religion in the official documents, then a certificate of proof is given by the mosque where the conversion has taken place signed by the qazi.

Anyone knows otherwise......?

Further a sharia lawyer will be able to give you the right answers.

Terra,

In some Muslim countries you have to affirm in front of an official or Imam and then you can get a certificate thats states you are a Muslim. A few people I know who married in Morroco and Egypt had to do this even though they were already Muslim. They however never changed there name legally through the US courts.

I think they did the same for my father when they first went on Hajj to Mecca back in the seventies even though they had Islamic names. Maybe they will come out with a Muslim brand or tattoo to identify who is Muslim or not kind of like the Copts in Eygpt.

We got a good laugh from this though....

Act your age not your shoe size

Aisha: Thank you! :-) If I decide to convert, I don't want your father to have doubts when I will ask for your hand!

Dvargas: that's the point. There is no procedure of "conversion". According to Koran we all are muslims, but we have to accept it. There is no rite to follow and there is no authority to execute a conversion rite, like in Roman Catholic or Orthodox church.

The closest I suspect might be a witnessed declaration in Sharia court by somebody who knows you. But it would be interesting to know what your landlord will say.

I believe is the same way in acquiring a certificate of conversion. It would be interesting to find out. I'll ask tomorrow my landlord. He is real good in explaining Islamic culture. Specially having a tea in his house, long night in understanding the different cast.

I'll ask for you , terramax

wait! :-)