Your View: Should GAY Marriage Be Legal ???

bring out the childishness in you. You'll die with your hatred. Up to now, you can't comprehend my position. you want your way, ok, then GO TO HELL, YOU S**T!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

So if homos3xuality is an 'illness', is it curable or are they born condemned into hell for their deviant behavior?

anyone who wants to go to Canada or anywhere else is entitled to it. It doesn't mean when you hate the western policy, you are not anymore welcome there.

That's prove how childish both of you. You just want to be surrounded by advocates of gay marriage.

Me, as long as you are human whether gay or not, I will respect you. What I don't like is gay marriage...

Is that clear to you, GUYS??????????? or I shal capitalize it because maybe, you HAVE a problem comprehending this thread: I AM AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE LEGALIZATION.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

Yes, it should!

No I don't believe in heaven and hell. My parentshave seen how hypocritical the church can be and so bought us up with the belief that we would find our own path, I have read most of the bible and have some understanding of Islam and Judaisim. I have also looked into various other religions from Hindu to Shinto. My beliefs are not allowed to be practiced in Qatar so thats all I'll say on the matter.

which "situation" Ms.Pussy Cat?

Do you want to "sandwich" me?

if you basically believe in God, the One & Only, then you are bound to end up in heaven in the end.

Now, will you go to heaven, straight away? Will you spend some time in hell? How much time will you spend in hell before you end up in heaven? All this depends on your Credit Account, i.e what were your deeds in this temporary life (which is a test/exam)!

Those who die denying God, have only one place to end up in: HELL

Mis-cat: Talk abt Happy Endings...lol!

On second thoughts, you believe in heaven n hell?

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

You do relise that "GAY" incorperates Homos, Lesbians and Bi-sexuals, so I find it rather hypocritical of you to say and I quote:

"(but please try not to be so harsh on the "woman-woman" thing ;-)"

Just a thought for you, although I would find it rather hard to believe that you would ever find yourself in this situation.

Rumpel: LOL...not an original statement that, I'm afraid.Heard that before, guess I'll hear it again.

But again, seeing how the norms for sanity is defined nowadays, I'd rather be nuts. :-p

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

According to most christianty, if you repent on your deathbed and confess all your sins you get to go to heaven anyway so its a load of tripe. In other words you can go through your whole life going against god and his teachings but in your last hours on earth if you can find a priest and confess everything and accept god into your life in those last dying moments then all is forgiven and you get to go to heaven after all.

Winn.....you're nuts!

:-)

"Mutual Respect, Tolerance and good governance are the foundation of all healthy societies"

Ofcourse I wudnt call it irrefutable or iron clad coz I respect ur right to feel otherwise.

About going around shooting people...

Just remembered an old quote...

"Even God almighty does not judge a man till the end of his days...Then who are YOU to do that??"

(Ofcourse I do not believe in the judgement day n stuff but I'm sure quite a few here would swear by it.)

Peace.

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

Actually it is waste like you that should not consume time from QLers

Rumple is actually an Australian citizen - a staunch ally of the United States, yet it seems he would prefer to move to Tehran (but wont) - a bit confused. Don't bother debating with him, it's a waste of time.

for you Dracula!

I know you are stuck with your family for ages!

"Marriage and the family is the foundation of all healthy societies.

This is the irrefutable IRON VERDICT OF HISTORY.

I defy anyone to show me differently with credible proof."

Is there an end for this thread?

I think this is one of the best words said in this thread: "..it is going against nature.."

(but please try not to be so harsh on the "woman-woman" thing ;-)

rumpel.. lol..

they are 650 even posts!

Even the though of a man-man or woman-woman having a physical relationship makes me want to puke. It is the most disgusting thing in the world. Religious beliefs apart, it is going against nature. Forget legalizing same sex marriage, if I had my way, I would shoot all the homosexuals in the world. They are sick people...

Cant believe it.. this thread has 650 odd posts...

about the exact words that Mr. Najadi said. He did NOT say: "we have no homosexuals", he simply said: "we have no homosexuals LIKE YOU DO".

Now who/which party deleted part of his speech, that's another issue!

You explained your opinion and I disagree with it. For me, gays should have no rights at all. I also think that Mr.Najadi's/Iran's policy concerning homosexuality, Israel and nuclear weapons is 100% correct.

I also saw the live transmission of Mr. Najadi's speech in Columbia and the (typical & expected) arrogant performance of an American dean/head of a university. They way this dean showed disrespect to a head of a state proves my point that this country (usa) and its people, is arrogant, brain-washed and full of hatred to the rest of the (3rd) world due to dense zionist effect on its policy. This is why I always say that it is absolutely justified that different parties in this world, have aggressive reactions against America.

Thai school builds transgender toilet

Last Updated: 3:20PM BST 19/06/2008

A Thai school has built a "transvestite toilet" after 200 students said they considered themselves to be transgenger.

The Kampang School has school unveiled a lavatory designated by a unique sign – a human figure split in half – part man in blue and part woman in red. Below it are the words "Transvestite Toilet."

Most rural Thais are conservative in many ways, but the initiative at the school reflects Thai society's tolerance for transgender communities, including cross-dressers, transvestites, transsexuals and those born with the physical characteristics of both sexes.

"These students want to be able to go in peace without fear of being watched, laughed at or groped," said school director Sitisak Sumontha. Transgenders who opted to use female lavatories made some of the other students uncomfortable, and those who chose the men's room often were harassed, he said.

By the way, Gay is not a gender, it never was until the recent generations. God has only created male or female and the reason why he created 2 gender is so they bond and increase the generation. Now I dont mind if people r gay, its actually good, they wont have kids... the world will stop being over populated... hence, it will reduce scarcity. God has cursed gays before and they will be cursed, its a sign of Armageddon.

A child is never born gay, its either a he or a she, not an "it". People choose to be it, just cuz they enjoy being "it" and they get addicted.

Back in the humble and decent times, gay was considered as a shame, but now people think that they are soo open minded when they are actually ignorant. Parents stop giving a rat's a*s about their kids and the kids take advantage of whatever they wanna become. Some turn into jerks, rest turn gay. It's all the result of either Lack of freedom or Lack of rules.

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You know, that you are screwed, when ur phone rings, while you sneak into your own house like a thief and your wife is asleep at 3 am in the morning... Perhaps that would be the last time you enter your own house lol.

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That's why Islam allows 4 marriages too (one of the reasons). Secondly and again "Science" has discovered treatments, if science fails, then there's always a 2nd wife.

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You know, that you are screwed, when ur phone rings, while you sneak into your own house like a thief and your wife is asleep at 3 am in the morning... Perhaps that would be the last time you enter your own house lol.

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I was raised and educated in the UK and so have refrained from answering this post for some time!

...as there are many here that resent the place of where I was raised for whatever reason and would attack me just because of where I'm from.

However, after reading so much intolerance on this thread I would like to share an article from the BBC news website for your information.

Please be respectful and not demeaning to others that may be different!

Remember, whether accepted in religion of not, God/Allah teaches tolerance (not that I'm religious, although most people I know are religious!)

The brains of gay men and women look like those found in heterosexual people of the opposite sex, research suggests.

The Swedish study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal, compared the size of the brain's halves in 90 adults.

Gay men and heterosexual women had halves of a similar size, while the right side was bigger in lesbian women and heterosexual men.

A UK scientist said this was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb.

Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure.

This is the first time, however, that scientists have used brain scanners to try to look for the source of those differences.

A group of 90 healthy gay and heterosexual adults, men and women, were scanned by the Karolinska Institute scientists to measure the volume of both sides, or hemispheres, of their brain.

When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.

In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.

A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.

In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.

The reverse, with more neural connections in the left amygdala, was the case in homosexual men and heterosexual women.

The Karolinska team said that these differences could not be mainly explained by "learned" effects, but needed another mechanism to set them, either before or after birth.

Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.

"As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," he said.

The amygdala, he said, was important because of its role in "orientating", or directing, the rest of the brain in response to an emotional stimulus - be it during the "fight or flight" response, or the presence of a potential mate.

"In other words, the brain network which determines what sexual orientation actually 'orients' towards is similar between gay men and straight women, and between gay women and straight men.

"This makes sense given that gay men have a sexual preference which is like that of women in general, that is, preferring men, and vice versa for lesbian women."

Now, these studies have been duplicated in many countries, not just the UK. If development of the "gay" brain happens in the womb, how is the gay individual to be blames for being gay?

btw, Adey, I would appreciate you repeating a ost that you made some time ago about the no of crimes commited by religious persons compared to that by atheists! ...just to prove to these people that religion does not dictate wether people are good or not! Thanks.

I saw his speech at Columbia while it was broadcast. I heard the comment about having no homosexuals in Iran. I understand that some things cannot be translated well but according to the follow up listed on the website PinkNews, this part of the transcript was deleted for domestic Iranian consumption (which I don't doubt. I know there is a 'grassroots democracy' in Iran and the press is always struggling with the regime. I personally had a classmate at university that was from Iran (she left after 1979 with family still there) who is a lesbian. I have not spoken with her in about 10 years but it would be interesting to hear her take on the matter.

I bring it up as we are all humans and have many of the same struggles wherever we go or are from. I am not personally for homos3xual marriages but I understand that there are homos3xual people that wish to have the same rights as heterosexual people (which is why I commented early on in this thread about the differences in words). I understand that they have to be vocal in order to obtain these freedoms (although I personally believe no one should be overzealous in public with any type of sexuality). I also understand that in many instances their being vocal can be deadly, without exception to country (although in some countries it is the government they have to fear not just the 'homophobe on the street').

I have lived in San Francisco and I can tell you that the 'gay community' typically is more well educated and financially well off (and does more good for the community) than your average American (although some of this wealth could be argued it comes from have a two income household that does not typically raise a family). I also understand the socio-religious aspect (it takes a man and a women to make a baby and children should have the balance of both a male and female influence in their day-to-day lives, and I think religion reinforces this natural order). I believe the last statement to be correct and also understand that 'parental love' by two people of the same sex is better than no love at all. I am not an advocate of 'gay rights' but understand they should have them in the civic realm to care for one another.

In short, you or anyone else can think what I see and believe is B.S. but I try to live in the world around me how it really is and use religion as a 'guideline' to help me better myself (we will never be perfect but in striving to be we must not overdue it). I think the 'Golden Rule' applies universally, 'treat others as you would like to be treated'.

In his Last Sermon, the Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] admonished believers:

"Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you."

No problem..u asked for it :)

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

the Iranian president said: "we dont have homosexuals LIKE YOU DO"!

"LIKE YOU DO" could mean: "as much as you do" or "as blatant as you do"

Thanks for YOUR oppinion.

________________________________

" Iarta-l Doamne ca nu stie ce face!"

"In Iran, we don't have homos3xuals" - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-5566.html

Inside Iran's Secret Gay World 1 of 3

&feature=related

Proud Gay Taliban

Sodomy Law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law

It seems that in 'conservative' religious societies (predominantly Muslim and Catholic) that with the 'insistence that women be virgins until after marriage' there is a higher percentage of homos3xual acts/sodomy (maybe 25%, whereas there are about 7-10% homosexuals in society at large). - My own input

I answered that question already and voted for option (B)

I can only speak for the US..YES it should be.. regardless of the name "marriage".. gay people are just people in the eye of the American constitution.

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

One personal question!

"Should GAY Marriage Be Legal ???"

I will start EXACTLY the same way I did in my previous post to you by saying ASALAM ALIKOM. Rings a bell ??

"Let me start by saying salam alikom to you. Second, what have I done to you to start hailing at me like that ?? " (my previous post)

"first of all, I didn't give myself a certificate as a mature ideal Muslim, so please don't put words in my mouth and stop accusing me for something I didn't say, especially when everyone here knows about it. 3aib 3alaik walla." (my previous post)

OOPS...I guess I really started by saying assalam alikom, not by saying SHAME ON YOU. !! Why do you do that?? Defense mechanism?? Not only is it shameful when you put words in people's mouth, it also portrays them as "liars" and I won’t give you the chance to do that to me. I will just face you. You did that to yourself. I wasn't attacking you just telling you it is a shameful thing to do. That's not an insult so don't read too much into it and try to make a weak point just to support your argument. Remember when Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) when he said if you see something wrong then change it…etc..and if you can't then by your tongue".. so I saw you putting words into my mouth and I'm telling you it is a shameful thing to do. You did an act, be responsible for its consequences. End of story.

I admire that you actually went back to the Qur'an and started quoting it. Honestly, good argument. I give you credit for that. Let me ask you this, what makes you think I don’t know that ?? what makes you think that I believe that gay sex is ok in Islam ? and what does the prophet Mohammed (PBUH) do when people go to him to ask for forgiveness? Does he tell them that they are sinners and quote Qur'an right a way, or does he work with them to solve their problems and tell them what to do AND comfort them and help them repent ?

Why don’t you follow that example?? Why don’t you help gay people to be straight if they can and/or wish ?? why don’t you leave a window for hope for change for them? why don’t you pray for them and ask God to show them the right way instead of quoting the qur'an on their face ? Is that what Islam is teaching you ?? didn't we learn that when you see a Muslim brother or a sister in a predicament to pray to God to make it easier for them and show them the right way ?? does it teach us to just slam the door on their face and just tell them that they will go to hell? If everyone does that, who is gonna help them ?? don't assume that a lot of gay people have the capability to change their sexual orientation on a blink of an eye. I got married to try to change, sought psychiatric help for 4 years, sat down with sheikhs and did whatever sessions they do thinking that I will change. DIDN'T WORK!!. That's not enough effort for you?? what are you expecting me to do at this point?..just kill myself because you are incapable of providing a solution or suggest a way for them to follow MAY BE they will change.. It is soooo easy to sit in your living room and just judge them..way much easier than being just and follow Islamic teachings. WAITING FOR AN ANSWER ON THIS ONE!!!

The prophet (PBUH) didn’t really provide a list of majors to study in China. And I don't know what university that teaches "Gayism" as a major.. May be you know more about this subject than I do. Sounds like you are just pulling answers outta God knows where to make an attack.. moving on.

" QatarBear did not answer any of my points. Just went around and started attacking me."

BULL!!! I gave you what I thought. You just didn't like it, and because of that, it automatically translates that I didn’t answer your questions the way it sounds appealing to your ears ???..Moving forward.

Next.. " One weird coincidence is that QatarBear joined at the same time this thread started and he is only posting in this thread. Any specific reason for that?"

Sure!!..there is a big reason for that. If it is not too much to ask, bring up my profile and scroll down and look how long has it been since I have been a member in QL. (4 days) and I recently moved from the US to Qatar. Sorry I didn't participate in the required amount of threads in order to express my opinion here. Boy was that a road block for your question!!.. Nice try!!

Any other personal questions I can answer for you ??

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Quote Rumple "Let's see where you come from...aah..australia...what a coincidence...WEST! This explains the western ill-hater in you! I rest my case!" And Rumple is .... Australian lol hahahahahahha - that is so funny. You live in a my country and attack it from the comfort of your living room - pathetic -

As for "Rumpelstiltskin said mis-cat ...

we agreed that you need to go back to school to study history before ordering an OZ withdrawal from MY island" - ah there are plenty of good public hospitals in Perth you can get your head checked at - its not yours lol. If you dont like it - simple - leave.

Hahahahah so funny - rumple attacked me ealier for being Australian lol - and I also noted then he lived in Australian territory lol. Talk about biting the hand that feeds u.

if both of them REALLY love each other why not???

Who are we to judged them right?!

Don't settle at being ordinary. Life is too precious. Enjoy. Have fun. Spend. Travel. Shop. Love. Fight. There's nothing wrong with being REAL.

The History of the australia's sovreignty on the Christmas Islands is covered in 7th grade it also covers the fact that during WW2 the indians on the islands, Head filled with propergander from the Japanese over threw the British garrisons onthe island and subsequently the japanese took over occupation forcing the muslim contingent on the island to pray everyday to a shinto shrine. It also covers the fact that had not the Australian government stepped in and bought out the mining co-op on the island when it did the whole place would have basically gone down the tubes.

YOU critize the west Yet it was the west that saved your country's A^&*. I am not the one Ordering an OZ withdrawl from your country I mearly suggested it since you Hate the west so much.

we agreed that you need to go back to school to study history before ordering an OZ withdrawal from MY island

who said those hateful things, but she knows herself! (althought you two are not different from each other in hating & bashing the culture, here!)

Don't worry about Rumelstiltskin as I revealed in another post he hates the west yet travels on a western passport. I have offered to help him with this affliction though by notifing the respective embassy that he wishes to hand it in as he hates the west sooooo much but to no avail he still seems to want to hold onto it.

didn't leave their internet crayons at home today...

so what, alexa? we have you, gypo, plus hundreds of westerners here in these countries, who keep bashing its culture morning, noon & night!

If you/westerners have a little bit of self-respect, you'd stay in your countries, accept your bit of "common wealth", and leave the extra Riyals to those who appreciate the "Sahara culture".

(Imagine what a dirty hypocrite she is when she comes to suck some extra bucks here while she brag that "arabs get married to camels & goats"! Can you imagine what kind of hateful people we are dealing with, here?)

actually, i have no idea about visa matters, except for my RP here in Qatar...lol :-P

I asked for PEOPLE'S VIEWS 8 pages ago...I'm taking the backstage for now...

I just hope DARUDE won't cuff my ears whe he sees me one of these days...lol

I'm on the READ mode ;-P

Remember a post about Adam and Steve?

Huh?

Oh dearie me

Here we go, bringing religion into it all again.

By the way Gypsy, I really like the way you present an argument

So here goes with my little contribution:

1) Religion is in the time of man. It was a way of explaining natural phenomena that science (such as it was) couldn't explain. It's a device that is used to control, through fear, the behaviour of a society.

2) Homosexuals are not homosexual because of "their beliefs". Homosexuals are homosexual. Period. It's not a matter of choice, it just IS.

3) The louder a man shouts about how disgusted they are by homosexual males, the more likely he is to buy "Men's Health" magazine.

'Nuff said?

.

"I told the doctor I broke my leg in two places. He told me to quit going to those places". - Henny Youngman

Just take yer A$$ back to the Phillipines and stay there, and dont be such a bleeding hypocrite.....Yer slag off the west , and then go live there.

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even in our country, the gays are accepted as human being and we respect them as our brother (and not as sisters). It's the gay marriage I find unacceptable. I will go there because you are here. It means there is a samll space there left by Gypsy so there is a possibility that I could contribute even ONE GRAIN OF SAND of my view to the relatives of my wife and other Filipinos there. who would still stick to the moral values we believe. I could not just imagine the filthy ways you want to spread to the east.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

"azilana7037 stop that bull[this post has broken our guidelines by using bad language - you will be removed from QL if this continues] ....u r in arab country respect it or leave to some place u can practice ur homosexuality free."

Respect the rules of QL or get off the site idiot. Azi is not homosexual eaither... Read the posts and contribute something meaningful or as I said, get off the site.

azilana7037 stop that bullshit ....u r in arab country respect it or leave to some place u can practice ur homosexuality free.

Roumania lifts gay ban; church objects

Gay.com U.K.

published Monday, December 24, 2001

Aging communist-era laws criminalizing gays and lesbians was removed Friday in Roumania.

The scrapping of the law, which was introduced during the reign of Nicolae Ceasescu, was prompted by the European Union's insistence that until the law was removed Roumania could not join the EU.

The law, Article 200 of the Penal Code, had been used to harass and imprison thousands of Roumanian homosexuals, and its demise sparked celebrations amongst the East European nation's gay community.

.

However, despite the law's removal, the EU forced the change on Roumania rather than being the result of Roumania becoming more progressive.

.

Roumania's powerful Orthodox Church, however, was furious at the decision. "We need healthy young people in mind and body, like any civilized country, and we must try to protect them from contamination by such serious sinners," said Holy Synod bishop Vincentiu Ploisteanu. "We want to join the European Union, not Sodom and Gomorrah."

"Why, don't you agree that all the problems we have now were created by the west?????????" No not at all - I don't know what shocks me more, the fact that you say something that is just so wrong or that it is so overly simplistic. In fact you have more to thank the west for then you could ever imagine. You think the west created homosexuality? lol. Put your head back in the sand! - But before you do, I take it you are for option C?

Cheers

Alexa, I can go anywhere I wanna go. Actually, my family is on the way to Canada where most of the relatives of my wife now resides. I can also adjust easily with wer=stern culture as I appreciate some. Just like what we learned from the Bible, pick the good ones and throw away the bad ones. That's why I'm throwing you out (your ideas of course, not you per se, I don't even know how you look like, just can't imagine).

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

are you serious? Want them to quote her & confess that she, and her culture, are behind all the problems?!

Man you have no idea about how twisted & hateful, some people are! They even believe in the "goodness" of bombing Japan with nucs.

Okay then. Let's have another 7 pages of spit and venom.

when I said Go backto west.... it was a defense mechanism for that lady who told me to stay in the east. Nothing more. nothing less. Why, don't you agree that all the problems we have now were created by the west????????? I don't want to expound this but that lady do really have a problem in her head for not stickong to the topic. Like you, two. Why bother to quote me but leave the same opposite quote of that lady?

It's shows your impartiality, guys.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

(B) Civil Union that grants ALL rights, including immigration rights..in other words..state and federal rights.

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Things are simple and people tend to complicate the issue.

Personally. I do not tolerate any person who intentionally twists facts about my religion.

Civil marriage: or whatever you like to call it. Is a bonding between a couple who do not fit into the criteria of Religious marriage. In other words it is illegal marriage. OR, could be conducted by some who are non-believers. SO let us not fool others. One is free to fool himself.

Before discussing Gay marriage being legal or no, one should discuss gayism itself. Some may say that it is socially acceptable. But it is definitely religiously not acceptable. One consequence of gay relationship is anal sex.

In Islam. Anal sex with wife nullifies marriage. Is this a sufficient evidence?

Also. Islam considers homosexuality to be the result of a choice. It is inconceivable that God made people homosexuals then declared it a crime and prescribed punishments for it in both this life and the next. To accept such a proposition is to accept that God is unjust. Inclinations can exist within humans for a variety of natural and unnatural acts, from fornication to rape and from necrophilia to bestiality. These inclinations may come from jinn-suggestions, media influence, or even from human whisperings or direct contact. Human beings are not like robots who only do what they are programmed to do. Humans choose and God holds them responsible for their choices. Were homosexuality a product of genetic destiny, it would be unfair for God to criminalize it and punish those who practice it. Currently, some scientists are even claiming that murder is of genetic origin. To accept that would mean to excuse murderers and tolerate murder.

Going back to fabricated story about LUT people and the twisted facts. Here is the story of the people of the prophet Lut who were addicted to this practice, is the best example. Prophet Lut, said to his people: "Verily, you do sodomy with men, and rob the wayfarer! And practice all wickedness in your meetings," (Al-Ankabut, 29:29). And he said to them: "Of all the creatures of the world, will you approach males, and leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your wives? Nay, you are a trespassing people!" (Al-Shu'ara', 26:165-166) But their answer to Prophet Lut, was: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if you are telling us the Truth." (Al-Ankabut, 29:29). And so Allah gave them the punishment they deserved: "And We rained on them a rain of torment. And how evil was the rain of those who had been warned," (Al-Shu'ara', 26:173

QatarBear did not answer any of my points. Just went around and started attacking me. And keeps jumping to new points. He even contradicted himself clearly when he defined "Being mature in simple English is having the ability to communicate your point in a respectful manner so you can have a dialogue" and he started his reply to me by saying "shame on you". Wonder why he did not say that in English.

Prophet Mohammad PBUH did not ask us to go to China to learn about gayism.

One weird coincidence is that QatarBear joined at the same time this thread started and he is only posting in this thread. Any specific reason for that?

===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409

"go back to west. All the problem of the world now is because of you. And that's a fact!!!!!!!!!!"

Really, then yer must have forgotten how much yer needed the West to help repel the japs in WW2

heres the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Philippines_%281941-42%29

So dont slag off the west (USA) cos they were there for yer country when yer really needed it.....

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Gee I got off this thread a while ago and I come back and there are 200 new posts~~~! I have read many but obviously not all. While it seems there has been some reasoned debate I think this thread has decended a bit into simple name calling and the like. ~ disapointing when big boys and girls get their internet crayons out and start scribbling - although admittedly some of that was in response to some nasty provocation.

While there are people here who are obviously opposed to "gays" or I would say hate them, why do people feel the need to insult and "bash" other posters? I mean it's really childish behavour ~ Perhaps one conclusion could be that those who are so virulently abusive to homosexuals are those who secretly are questioning their own sexuality (or who have represessed it). It's ok guys - we'll still love you even if you hate yourself lol.

Now for some grown up discussion: The point was made way way back that of the 17 countries listed by QB none was "a muslim country" ~ well of those not listed how many are true democracies eaither (ok Turkey lol)? It would be interesting to see the correlation between democratic societies and the prevelence of gay marriage. Honestly that would be a interesting study.

Lastly putting all the rubbish that has gone before can I now get a straw poll of those in favour of A) Gay marriage and B) Civil union or laws to protect the property rights of gay couples (As I said earlier what about the situation of a gay couple who have been in a relationship for 20+ years and one dies. Should the mother of the dead partner have property rights over their home as a matter of law?) or C) no rights.

Just post A, B or C - interested to know people's views although I am sure I can pick them.

So has anyone been swayed to one side or the other on this topic as a result of all of the discussion on this thread?

7 Pages and no hijacks?!

Anyone familiar with the Pushtu term 'ashna'?

I am sure about the "confused" but I'm not sure about the "guy"...bwaaaaaahahahahaha

the home I was brought up in, I wonder about the kind of home that produced a gay like you! Must be.....very "special" home

Dude.. give it a rest..i'm one hell of a confused guy..i'm worthless..and you are the all knowing God..so please..go bash someone else..it is enough to know that you have multiple personality.. scary!!!

do the world a favor and go get checked. May God be with you in your mission.

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WHAT ??? Airsupply??..

You mean i have been talking to a schizophrenic all that time ???..NOW IT MAKES SENSE.. Man..sorry for you sickness..i will keep you in my prayers.

Sorry again for hearing the bad news..Let me know if you need help..

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for using improper names if you continue to use them? Isn't that a prove that you are confused or stupid?

And why claim that you apologize to be "clear in front of God" when you are continuously proving that you are far away from God?

I NEVER claimed that you apologized because you like me or because you wanted to be my friend. I don't know where did you get that assumption from. It seems that you are suffering from a lot of confusion that is not allowing you to think right.

I apologized because I admit that i used improper names to refer to you. Not because i like you or want to be your friend, God forbid!! So please don't boost your ego.. Apologizing doesn't mean that i will like you from that point on..i will just draw the line that's all.

Letting you calling me stupid and confused doesn't bother me my friend. It just shows the forum what kind of a house you were brought up in. I will just play the big brother and let things slide because the more you curse the more THAWAB i get.. so please add to my pile..

and just for your records, I don't need you or anyone like you to clear things up for me. I'm an independent person who works on and not bitch about HIS problems. SO stop being may saving angel..I don't need you and your work is not appreciated.

And if you are proud to be a terrorist, then go join the military or Bin Laden brain washed troops and stop playing on the computer..AGAIN..DO SOMETHING FOR YOUR LIFE!!! that if you know what to do to begin with.

PS: whether i have an itch down there or not, stop putting your nose in people's ass..mind your business.

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in every war there are victims from here in there. This includes a few jews who were killed in this country & that! (much much less than the russian casualties in WW2).

Then they made a huge amount of false propaganda about it (documents, books, museums, movies...etc) but you are NOT allowed to dig & research about the real facts/figures of these (minor) deaths!

The ONLY holocaust I know, in the history of mankind, happend in Heroshima & Nagazaki!

and why "SHAME!!!!!", Dracula?

If people are not ashamed to declare that they deny MIGHTY God, do you think I will be ashamed to deny a lie called "the holocaust"???!!!!!!!!!!

600 posts.

Bloody hell!

Is there that much to say?

We all know everyone is either a little bit gay or a lot gay.

I took a test on facebook and got 10%.

And I couldn't have sex with a man.

I know because I have let myself ponder it.

But if you are gay and want to make a commitment then go ahead.

I wish you the best of luck.

We all need a little bit of luck with relationships.

Call me Maninibat!

There you are Airsupply - I mean -Rumplestiltskin. How many new ID's have you had on here because you have been banned for your love of terrorists killing techniques and hate of the West (oh and lets not forget your constant whinning that the Holocaust is just fiction at its best). Sooner or later your true colors come out and we once again realize - HE'S BACK ! Come on - seal the deal by calling me a few foul names.

Qatarbear - you seem like a bright guy. Leave this one alone - he is pure evil and to encourage him is to justify his thirst for violence and hate.

Good advice Tweety!.

TOPIC CLOSED FOR ME!

______________________

Salam!

what a coincidence! An American! Why am I not surprised that hate threads come from americans? I guess it is the amount of guilt that you people suffer from that pushes you to hate the rest of the world.

"fake stories about some unrealistic crimes by Hitler"????????????????????????

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SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!

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"I hate to hear everything that goes on with the holocaust and i have studied alot about it. I am Muslim and they say that all Muslims dont believe it happened but alot of us do. the children of the holocaust were lucky to survive (who ever did), but thoes who died were proble luckier, if they survived they would have to live with all the memories of Hilter and the holocaust. To the kids. i have great compassion towards you and hope this never happens again. they ahve taken the study out of England because of People not believing it and fighting for it. If we do not know what happened we are bound to repeat it. its sort of already happening wars are still going on and soon maybe WWIII is coming. i hear alot of people talking about Hitler rising again and others contiuing his work i;d hate to become a victim like all thoes little ones were. i have never cried so much when i first started reading about the holocaust its so horrible to think that one man could do this. i pray all of you will never have to go thru it again and that you are still alive"

http://users2.smartgb.com/g/g.php?a=s&i=g23-00715-94

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"If I can send the flower of the German nation into the hell of war without the smallest pity for the spilling of precious German blood, then surely I have the right to remove millions of an inferior race that breeds like vermin ..." Fekc you Adolf Hitler!

maybe this is because that all you care about in life is the itch you got down there! Otherwise you wouldn't attack people who are trying to clear things for you, and you wouldn't be so stupid by calling them "crying babies".

Earlier you were trying to play the "innocent guy/girl game" by trying to apologize to me (in front of God) but I always knew that a gay like you can never be a decent human & will start to attack again!

Anyway...I was not complaining about the west. I was only answering your confused statements. Who told you that we (honest, patriot arabs) have a problem with the west calling us "terrorists"? We are actually proud of it!

FYI, the enjoyment of fighting the aggressors, is not only thru military battles right there on the front. The battle also includes eliminating the diseases, dirt & worms right here among us, which are related to the aggressors! Yes, I am talking about gays like you!

Here's a tip: concentrate on satisfying your itch, and leave politics to those who know about it!

"go back to west. All the problem of the world now is because of you. And that's a fact!!!!!!!!!!"

So after they leave, are we all set ?? problem is solved ?? You know what!! i see as a much bigger problem. None wants to do anything about it!!!.. complete surrender!! the door is wide open for them to walk though..smart from their part.. are you gonna close the door yourself or should we just hire American soldiers to close it for us.. we don't have to get up you know!!.. God forbid if we do.

Alexa and Gypsy..sorry i'm not relating to you at all..i'm just making a point. I think you understand and pls don't take it personally. Thanks!!

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SO WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT ??

Use our oil wealth and pay someone else to defend you ??? are you gonna react at some point in your life and defend it or you are just gonna blame the western world for calling you a terroris and cry about it like a baby?? is there any room left on the western coat hanger to hang your problems on.

So the western world is calling you a terrorist for defending your country..So what?? let them call you a terrorist. Why cry about it ?? when are you gonna do something about it ?? stand up for what you believe in and DO SOMETHING AND QUIT COMPLAINING.

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on 1 side you say:"Why do we attack people?" and on the other side you say: "let alone Muslims in Sudan, Palestine, Iraq..etc, are dying and we do NOTHING about it."

You dont seem to realize that we dont attack people. On the contrary, arab/muslim countries are under attack since decades! Part of the war against us is the amount of hate directed towards us (specially from Denmark). Part of the war is if you try to support Palestineans, Sudanese, Iraqis..then you are a "terrorist". If you try to defend you land, family, honor, home, using the same means that they use against you..then you are a "terrorist"! Part of their war against us is their disgusting attemps to make us accept their filth (homosexuality, pedophiles, incest, bastards, adultry...etc) as "normal" things! Part of their war is hailing their disgusting criminals when they kill thousands of people in Japan, but selling us fake stories about some unrealistic crimes by Hitler. Part of their armies are not military, they are civilians who come to work as employees, to promote their twisted standards.

Yuck! NO!

Well, if its a girl and a girl, well, fine. =D Just kiddin'! Hehe! =p

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Once you go Mac, you'll never go back!

http://www.apple.com

http://www.philmug.ph

then make sure you don't indulge in such behaviour.

As for me , it's not something I have any urge to try as I like women, however, I don't see how the act of homosexuality or gay civil union affects my life in anyway at all.

Why so annoyed about it? What if one of your students came to you with questions about their sexuality? What would you say without putting the persons life down totally?

What did jesus say on the matter?

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Never ...because it`s disgusting !

Arabs agreed not to agree. We have always been like that and unfortunately it seems like it will never change. I have always hoped that one day we will change, but i don't think so. As long as we all claim to be scientist and professors in every single branch and field in life, and as long as we are all stuck up and refuse to admit our fault and recognize that we need to profoundly change from within, we will never EVER in this life see any progression and we will always be looked at the same way the world is looking at us right now.

Why do we attack people? why do we force Islam down their throats? Who taught us this? who told us to do this ? What makes us think that we are better than the rest of the world? For God sake, all we do is brag about the oil we have, the money we spend on some stupid stuff when other people, let alone Muslims in Sudan, Palestine, Iraq..etc, are dying and we do NOTHING about it. Absolutely NOTHING!!!.. What happened to this Muslim brotherhood ?? Not only do we discriminate against the west, but we discriminate against our own Muslim brothers. Islam is gone..waaaaaaaaay long time ago..we are only Muslims by label. Everyone is claiming how Muslim they are and just start hailing other people. WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??? Wake up..if have had it with all this garbage and non-sense.

And some of us wonder why we have this image? because we brought it to our selves. We deserve that image. You want to change it, then do something about it because guess what, the west will never help you in this aspect, the east will never help you in this matter, you gotta start it YOURSELF.

Otherwise, don't ask the world to change their views about Arabs because they have every single right to think that way. We gave them the reason why. Hope one day one will stand up and just admits all that and is willing to change.

Peace out!!

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so are Australia, NZ, ...etc. but they still call them "west"!!!

go to a hospital, tell them that you are not married but that you are pregnant (it would be a bastard child, ofcourse) and that you want to see the arrangement of the delivery/birth giving. Will they let you give birth & register your child?

because though you admired the feat...you already JUDGED that the families that does not conform to your age-old definition of a FAMILY is UN-NATURAL & ABNORMAL.

As I am at PEACE with my self and as I had faced all that kind of ridicule from people (like YOU)...

You think you're WISE..BETTER...MORE KNWLEDGEABLE...so be it...to me YOU (and your kind with the same mentality) are an INCOGNITO...and it will REMAIN that way.

Last time I chkd India was in the east..

...(The apex court) not only validated such a relationship, but going one step ahead, it said that the children born to such a parent would be called legitimate. Besides these children will have the rights in their parent’s property.

One advantage for the ruling that it would not only deter the couple to take hasty decision of splitting each other but also would encourage the couple to produce their offspring, who were earlier afraid of regarding their future in case of their break-up.

Children of such parents were not treated at equal footing in the society, now would live with their head hold up straight. Because born to either ‘in-wedlock’ or ‘out of wedlock’ parents would not decelerate their morality.

http://mynation.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/legal-tag-to-live-in-relationship/

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2708525.cms

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

here is one example:

"In Islamic law, marriage is a legal bond and social contract between a MAN and a WOMAN as prompted by the shari'a"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_marital_jurisprudence

(not that I trust wikipedia all the time)

Where in the East are you referring to. Because while there may not be gay marriage or gay adoption yet, in all countries children born out of wedlock are allowed to be registered.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

and again i say, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

"stay in the East...where the same things happen as in the West."

Can you show me where these things happen in the East:

-Legal Gay marriages?

-Bastard children legally registered?

-Adultrous/unmarried couples receive legal social rights?

-Gays legally allowed to adopt children?

just curious because according to the head of the Institute for Family Studies and Development (part of Qatar Foundation), males from the Gulf download more pornography from the internet then anyone else on the planet.

how about sexual harassment? because there never seems to be a shortage of women complaining about sexual harassment here (and of course it seems that much of this is from non-Qataris).

how about driving so aggressively and dangerously that it borders on reckless endangerment (again, not only Qataris)? isn't knowingly putting other people's lives in danger a violation of all religions?

and on and on and on and on....

all these people talking about homosexuality being against religions - i'm curious how many of these people don't violate their religion in some way?

a bunch of little rush limbaughs pointing fingers at everyone except themselves.

___________________________________________

"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I

Yup that's one of very very very many. So?

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then you are, too. Or you will say you're not and you are holy. I respect your opinion regarding the topic as I have said to QB's post, I respect your opinions but check how many are you and how many are we. Don't bother about the silent majority, just those who joined the discussion and you will see where you stand.

So long, my friends, the goodness of being incognito is we don't know each other personally and we fight each other very hard. Who knows, we are exchanging elbows outside or have shared the same table in a cheap restaurant.

Anyway, I hope to meet you all in other threads, whether we will be in the same side or protagonists again. GOOD DAY EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good day Alexa and Gypsy and Darude, don't you think Azzilana deserved a standing ovation for starting this "war"? hehehehehe. Good day, Rumpel, thexonic and the others whether we shared the same thought or not.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

It should be because that would be fair. I know that religion is against porn therefore for the sake of fairness, porn should also be against religion.

Just call me Tigasin. That's what I'm talking about

Maybe the religious wackjobs should go help out the guy looking to take a second wife. Seems more up their alley.

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go back to west. All the problem of the world now is because of you. And that's a fact!!!!!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

You're not judgemental?!?!?!?! Well that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day. The guy banishing people to hell and saying that anything beyond the nuclear family isn't normal is saying he's not judgemental. Dude, you're delusional.

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You want my opinion ?? hmm

ok.. you have a certain definition for the word family, Gypsy has a different one. I have a third one..do we all have to agree ?? no..can we say.."Aahh..i see your point but thanks for sharing and leave it at that ??"

Here is my definition of the family.

Family: I don't care as long as the kids are healthy and happy. Two moms, two dads, two whatever..I don't care..

the question is..if you finally reach a definition where everyone will agree one, is it gonna make your life better ? are you a complete person now ?? MOVE ON guys.. we already know that we won't agree..then let's just co-exist..and whoever needs help, just ask and we will be there for each other..don't get too much into details..

like..should we use spoons and forks or should we eat with our hands like older generations do ?? DOES IT REALLY MATTER ?? I mean is this the only problem you are facing now ??? what's wrong with changing definitions, at least for the sake of the Kids .. who wants to hear that a kid doesn't have a natural family just because his dad passed away ??.. what kind of torture and a psychological trauma are you giving to the kid? is it necessary ?..let him/her live.. Natural or unnatural..since when have we all become professors and scientists ??

khalas..we don't agree then we don't agree..end of story.. that's my opinion..

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that is why I said, I admire your family. But isn't it admirable when you know an "abnormal" thing or situation was overcome?. I said, if it's not normal then it's abnormal.. There is no other term to use. If it's not natural, definitely it's unnatural...... why are you angry with someone who admired the feat of your mother and you? So when you're angry to someone, they are judgmental?

Take an appeal, to a higher court (in this case, my father, maybe you may convince him of your hate-filled discussion)and reverse the decision!!!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

Awesome! Nobody wants you and your narrow minded thinking in the West anyway. You can stay here or whereever else and let the world pass you by. We won't miss you.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

I am not suprise now why everybody consider US and Canada's moral gage is down. Definitely, I will not let my children grow-up in that western culture of non-God-fearing people. They pretend to know God and dare to even change the definition of a normal family. My gosh... where is this world heading for???????

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

MY FAMILY IS UNNATURAL AND ABNORMAL....

Kindly contemplate that you profess being a CHRISTIAN when you are so JUDGEMENTAL OF PEOPLE WHO DOESN'T CONFORM TO YOUR BELIEFS???

As much as YOU HAVE OFFENDED ME and all the families (by force or by choice) of similar situation, I will keep my peace...

It simply comes down to how you define marriage.

If you think marriage is solely a religious institution between you, your wife/wives and god, then fine, do whatever your god tells you.

If you live in a country where marriage affords legal privledges/benefits, the 100% gay marriage should be legal. In most countries only a spouse can fully inherit, recieve pension dividends, share deeds to a house, be present in intensive care and critical health situations, etc etc. Why should gay couples be denied the same legal priveldges that are given to other couples automatically????

"Happy Now?"

You mean, DO I CARE ???!!..ABSOLUTELY NOT..

the apology goes to the people..not for me my friend. Whether you accept mine or not. I could care less..i just did my part..not expecting you to apologize in return cuz you won't anyway..after all, i'm the gay man here..the worthless one..you are God, the all knowing!!

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Sure, Go online and order a social studies or health book from Canada or the United States. The defintion will be there in black and white.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

not the normal interpreation. Ask QB, maybe there is still some common sense he can share regarding this family definition.

Can you send me a book being use in formal class and teaches the definition you are fighting for. I will start asking the co-workers of my wife in the school where she works about the definition of family. I will give you the percentage of who will fit your definition, two men or two women and a child or children. I will not hide anything because I know the normal definition.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

You naughty boy/girl! Where are you hitting at?

I thought you said in your last postthat you don't want to talk to me, don't want to come my path...blablabla!

"...clear my side in front of God.." Bwaaaahahaha! That's a new one!...from a gay!

OK I do apologize if I offended any person who is against gays & their marriages, but I feel pity for those who support gays & their marriages, specially those who prefer to end up burning in hell...may God grant them their wishes!

Happy now?

"This kind of marriages r useless, Why would someone get married if they cant have kids or a family???"

As we said before in this forum, because that certificate gives us civil rights that we don't have. gay marriage/union, or whatever, for us, gay people, is a civil right issue NOT a religious or natural or biological issue..it is JUST PURE CIVIL. You view it differently, that's fine, but this is not how WE view it.

Do you actually think that having a marriage certificate is gonna change anything between my partner and I or his family and my family? ABSOLUTELY NOT. We will still live together, we will still be discriminated against, we will still be doing the same exact things we do on a daily basis. It just gives us civil rights..that is ALL. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why is it hard for people to get that concept? i don't know. It is not gonna raise your mortgage, it is not gonna increase your insurance premium. It is not gonna be gonna affect your job. And if you are against same-sex marriage, then don't marry one. As simple as that.

Of course I'm not talking about Qatar or any Muslim country. We know that won't happen. I'm talking about the rest of the world or precisely countries with secular governments.

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Oh and dimightysolomon your defintion is not there, no where does it specify the number or sex of the parents.

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why they have to be married??? i don't understand... married for normal ppl ok but for gays???

they just wanna feel that the world accept them as they r and they r wrong.. they have to see ashrenk for that coz all of them have sick minds and bodies... thier image effectting the kids every where.. and they r making them confuse about themselves... and if it come's to my babies safty,oh god....

Then if you read my post, you would understand that we did dance at our prom.

Dimigtysolomon, You understanding of the difintion of family is 30 years out of date. If you read school books now, you would see that it's changed.

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fore heaven sakes dont you have any work to do

7 pagesssssssssssss on this shiiiiiiiit topic

[img_assist|nid=73057|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

I think it is a kind of trolley they use it for babies, No? (the next thing you'll tell me is that it means a party the high school makes to celebrate the graduation of the senior students...etc)

...I don't know...we are just arabs who get married to camels and pay a couple of barrels of oil to pay "common wealth" people, like you! (but you guys are cheaters if you send us people who have not danced in the prom!

formal education by year 1982. But I never stop educating myself with daily readings and regular attending church services. I am not a Catholic nor I am a Muslim but I am a Christian.

Gypsy, If you have no religion and does not believe in God, no point to argue with you because definitely, you will push for your own definition which is "unnatural".. Check the definitions you quote. It says there my definition!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

So you're saying people who can't have kids shouldn't get married thexonic? What if the person is sterile for whatever reason (Kemotherapy, etc) they shouldn't be allowed to get married?

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This kind of marriages r useless, Why would someone get married if they cant have kids or a family??? there's no such thing as a gay family lol.

You know, that you are screwed, when ur phone rings, while you sneak into your own house like a thief and your wife is asleep at 3 am in the morning... Perhaps that would be the last time you enter your own house lol.

Whatever you say man.. At least I did step up to the plate and apologized for my words. A man is not a word, a man is an action. And just to speak the truth, you still owe the people here an apology. I did my part to clear my side in front of God and in front of these people here.

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Dmightysolomon, I don't know when or where you were educated, but your defintion of a normal family is outdated and old fashioned. It's a 1950's defintion that no longer carries any weight in the real world.

As for religious books, they are YOUR religious books not MINE, so stop trying to force them on me.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

There are other definitions from religious books, you know!

you answered your question. Tell me, is it natural for a single parents to raise his or her children alone, that's not NORMAL, that's exceptional and I admire your Mother for her accomplishment. But that's not make it normal. If you are a single parent, by choice or by force, I admire you if you will single-handledly raised your children, but taht's exceptional and guys, I definitely admire people who can do that.

But still, a natural family is a father, a mother and a cjild or children. You can not get away from that normal beliefr or definition. I can.t remember somebody told me that a family is two men or two women and a child or children.

If you choose to be like that, you're exceptional and that's what we called unnatural or "abnormal"(anything not normal is "abnormal". I am not degrading you guys, it's only in your mind

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

Do you even know what a prom is?

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"Actually my graduating class got rid of the tradition of dancing at the prom with your parents specifically because not every boy had a mother or every girl a father."

And what would you expect from a nation that has spoiled its graduation dance prom? I mean imagine the destructive psychological effects you can have on the generations when the graduation prom is not danced properly. How do you expect these kids to be leaders in their fields if the nightmares of the lacking prom dance keeps hammering their young heads, all their lives?

So we (in Qatar) had to end up with a Canadian who missed dancing in the graduation prom! Hmmmm...they should have paid more Riyals to get get better brains, who have enjoyed dancing in the prom, otherwise they will never manage to host the 2020 Olympics!

So much of psychoanalytic interest has been concerned about trauma during the Oedipal phase that sometimes not enough emphasis is placed on the first year of a child's life.

Using the analogy of a tree, if we place a cut in a tree while it is very young, there will be a deep wide gash in it when it reaches maturity.

Similarly it would appear that the earlier in a child's life a TRAUMA occurs the greater effect it will have on the development of the PERSONALITY.

Also naturally there will be a different quality to the symptoms in an adult when the trauma occurred at an earlier age.

The adult who has been rejected during the first few months of life will be very concerned with oral matters and with acceptance or rejection and may react with great anger to any rejection.

One of the more common defenses against this is withdrawal of feeling from others so as not to get enough involved to be able to be rejected.

.

NOW, PUT THIS ADOPTED CHILD INTO A GAY FAMILY!!!!

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A rejected family!

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The defintion of family from www.dictionary.com

fam·i·ly Audio Help /ˈfæməli, ˈfæmli/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fam-uh-lee, fam-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -lies, adjective

–noun 1. parents and their children, considered as a group, whether dwelling together or not.

2. the children of one person or one couple collectively: We want a large family.

3. the spouse and children of one person: We're taking the family on vacation next week.

4. any group of persons closely related by blood, as parents, children, uncles, aunts, and cousins: to marry into a socially prominent family.

5. all those persons considered as descendants of a common progenitor.

6. Chiefly British. approved lineage, esp. noble, titled, famous, or wealthy ancestry: young men of family.

7. a group of persons who form a household under one head, including parents, children, and servants.

8. the staff, or body of assistants, of an official: the office family.

9. a group of related things or people: the family of romantic poets; the halogen family of elements.

10. a group of people who are generally not blood relations but who share common attitudes, interests, or goals and, frequently, live together: Many hippie communes of the sixties regarded themselves as families.

11. a group of products or product models made by the same manufacturer or producer.

12. Biology. the usual major subdivision of an order or suborder in the classification of plants, animals, fungi, etc., usually consisting of several genera.

13. Slang. a unit of the Mafia or Cosa Nostra operating in one area under a local leader.

14. Linguistics. the largest category into which languages related by common origin can be classified with certainty: Indo-European, Sino-Tibetan, and Austronesian are the most widely spoken families of languages. Compare stock (def. 12), subfamily (def. 2).

15. Mathematics. a. a given class of solutions of the same basic equation, differing from one another only by the different values assigned to the constants in the equation.

b. a class of functions or the like defined by an expression containing a parameter.

c. a set.

–adjective 16. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a family: a family trait.

17. belonging to or used by a family: a family automobile; a family room.

18. suitable or appropriate for adults and children: a family amusement park.

19. not containing obscene language: a family newspaper.

—Idiom20. in a or the family way, pregnant.

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"how was Family define in all the schools you entered."

Family was defined for me as any people living together as a family unit, be they parents, parent, guardians or guardian. Even by the 1980's in Canada the traditional defintition of the nuclear family was out the door, and we were taught, in fact, that a family can be basically any group of people living together as one.

In my Health book we had pictures of kids with two moms, kids with one mom or one dad, kids who lived with their grandparents, etc. Actually my graduating class got rid of the tradition of dancing at the prom with your parents specifically because not every boy had a mother or every girl a father.

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a single PARENT with kids could not be considered as a NATURAL FAMILY...

I am a (single) PARENT with two kids...so MY FAMILY is NOT NORMAL???

Would that make me a LESBO/GAY coz I choose to raise my kids with a partner of a similar gender? So... you mean to say that my kids are growing up to be ABNORMAL???

I grew up with my other 3 siblings with only my mother so...to your definition...I grew up in an ABNORMAL FAMILY...

With all due respect(being you FAR TOO OLDER/MATURE than me, i suppose) but connoting that a parent missing in your equation/definition of a family IS CALLED "UNNATURAL" & "ABNORMAL".

I find it distasteful and OFFENDING...but hey...that's your definition of a family...I RESPECT THAT.

Molae, as far as I can remember, was KICKING everybody around...those who deserve it, I mean! I actually respect that kind of style.

As for: "Read ur criteria for respecting gays. I guess they are better off without the respect..."

That's the idea, Winn!

1. dmigty ...start burning ur diplomas. I have seen kids growing in one parent family drawing a one parent family pic.

2.If we are going to live our lives/legalise issues based on...wait... a children's drawing contest...LOL...that one was really funny, dmigty!! You have a good sense of humor!! Thats a damn good idea for a fiction series though..

3. "How will you tell them to procreate or extend human survival thru birth??????"

Well...I did go to a school...u know...and I swear!nobody told me to procreate n extend survival.(Guess I bunked classes on that day??)

4.Once again, if gay parents are going to "teach" their kids to be gay, then who taught those gay parents to be gay? OH!!heterosexual parent's kids dont turn gay , u mean?

BTW, never knew you had to be taught to be GAY!!

Rumpel: Read ur criteria for respecting gays. I guess they are better off without the respect of someone like you.

BTW, why do u remind me of one Molae who was mauled n kinda unceremoniously kicked around in some previous threads??

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

Hey man..hope this finds you well..

I'm not here to challenge or debate because I got sick of it to be honest with you. But hey..i love drawing. wish I was a good artist. But anyway. I used to draw when I was a kid and I did like it. I agree with you and if you were to ask me to draw a family when I was a kid, I would have drawn the image you are talking about. But think why ?? I was taught how to pronounce "Mom and Dad" before learning how to hold a pen or a pencil. I was never taught Dad and Dad, or MOM and MOM. So whatever I drew was based on what I was taught previously in kindergarten or pre-school or from mom or dad when I was a baby. It doesn't really take that much to realize that. Ask any psychologist. Raise a kid with gay parents and ask him to draw a picture, what will s/he draw ??? find out!!!!!

What about the kids that draw horrible images of death and torture or whatever. This is NOT natural, eh ?? so drawing is based on your environment where you were brought up and NOT nature. That was also a question to my psychiatrist that I saw for 4 years and that was the answer pretty much.

Mind you that I'm not trying to say that gay sex is natural or unnatural or whatever. I don't know much about this subject and I'd rather say I DON'T KNOW because I don't have to have an opinion when I don't know much about it and have so many unanswered questions about it still. So it is early for me to say yes or no. I need to chew on it a bit more. I just draw a line for my knowledge and stop there. If I want to make an opinion, I would educate myself first then make a decision based on solid facts, not hearsay. Plus it really is irrelevant to my interest anyway.

Speaking of adoption, I'd rather help a child who is left behind in the street or a shelter and give him the attention and love that he needs in order to be able to grow up giving what he has received in the past. You can't give what you lack my friend. And that doesn't mean that this boy or girl will grow up to be gay just because he has gay parents.

Want me to prove it. My parents are straight and I'm gay. Explain that to me :) I should have been straight since I had two straight parents. Why did that happen?.. Think about that for a minute.. There is no guarantee what will happen to the kid. It's his or her fate. If s/he is gay, fine I will support him/her and I will be by his/her side when she faces discrimination even in school. I would do that because I know how much hate and discrimination I have seen in my life an di had to face it a lone at some point. I know how hard it is to be on this boat and I would hate to see any kid suffering form it. .JUST THE FACT THAT DADDY WENT TO SCHOOL WITH HIM/HER MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENT IN THE CHILD'S LIFE. Do you know how secure they will get ?? May be they'd rather be with gay parents rather than on the street. So saying NO to gay adoption even, means depriving kids from some loving homes!!..and yes..there are many many happy gay people who have less break up rates than divorce rates in the straight community. I know I'm happy and content with my life and there is no acting in my life. Neither do I need someone to tell me that I'm not without knowing anything about me..

We should be concerned more about the child's life than the adopting parents. Just like you should be concerned about gay people as PEOPLE rather than what they do behind closed doors.

Thanks for starting some good conversations. I enjoy talking with you.

those who will contraadict this last post of mine is considered "UNNATURAL".

This is precisely why I'm opposed to gay marriage. What shall we teach to the children they adopted, you have to change the whole school curricula. You have to redefine family?????????? How will you tell them to procreate or extend human survival thru birth??????

Will it only be logical that gay parents will teach their children to be gays and just follow their footsteps and be gays also (my presumption but very realistic).

This children will be isolated (maybe subject to rediculeness) because the "common" belief is he or she belongs to an "abnormal" or "unnatural" family (for you Azzi, I use the word family). And the domino effect will be there.

All adopted children have personal trauma that need special attention from the parents that will adopt them whether straight or gay couples but imagine, gay couples counselling an adopted child, what will they teach? Yes someone will argue that not all, of course not all, there will be those who will be successful but for sure many will be "unnatural".

What do you think, Dracula?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

"u have your way and i have my opposite way.. please keep on walking on your path and leave mine alone cuz i have no interest in walking your path.."

if you go back to my early posts, this is what I also said. I am fine as long as no gay comes in my environment, tries to change the (marriage) laws in my country, and exist in front of my children (spoiling their brains).

As for: "Also, please know when people don't agree with you, it doesn't mean that they don't understand. They do, they just don't agree with you that's all."...I think you should prcatice what you preach and don't say things like: "I wouldn't be surprised if he has Bin Laden posters in his room." because if you don't like him, that doesn't mean that he is a bad man & that it is wrong if people should hang his posters!

Finally; "i highly suggest some public debating classes and Academic Writing class. In both classes, you will learn that Speech is a form of art and word choice is a BIG BIG factor in public debates."...sorry to disappoint you, but no gay is going to give me advices. If gays are capable of advices, then they would have corrected themselves!

Sorry that I can respect gays in 1 condition only: if they realize that they are suffering from a psychological and organic sickness, that they should get treatment, that they have no hand in this disease that got into them, that they KNOW it is against the will of God to practice gay sex, that they should keep their ordeal discreet, that they should NEVER be proud of their sickness, and that they should NEVER allow their sickness to spread in the society they live in.

Salam

when you started your schooling, what did they teach you in school? how was Family define in all the schools you entered. Because if I'm wrong in my definition, I can burn all my diplomas right now.

Call a child, a normal child and asked him to draw a family? check what will he draw?

And here's another one, ask the same child to draw a couple, married one, check what he will draw? It will VERY UNNATURAL IF YOU SEE TWO MEN OR TWO WOMEN IN THE COUPLE? it will also be too unnatural to see a drawing that will picture a family with two people only, for sure it will be three and you will see a man, a woman and a child (at least).

Com'on gay defenders, anybody wants to challenge these drawing contest?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

what you are saying now strengthened my position. The issue is generation-dependent. When one generation come to their senses, they realize the mistakes of the old generations as you pointed out (acceptable b4, not acceptable now or vice versa).

Will it be logically possible that the people who legalized gay marriage in some parts of the world will change their position after how many years, who knows? Maybe after careful studying the effect of gay marriage to the basic meaning of a society. Children adopted by gay couples, etc. etc. etc

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

"Haven't you realized yet QB that Rumpel thinks Osama is a great man?"

so far, Osama is good, but not great, because his "victims" are very minimal. Once he has more "victims" than those who died in Heroshima & Nagazaki, then I will consider him a "great man" like Truman who ordered the "little boy" & "fat man" to be dropped on those 2 cities.

Gypsy..I wouldn't be surprised if he has Bin Laden posters in his room. I threw that example to see the feed back..and it confirmed my thoughts..end of story..

Rumpel..listen dude.. u have your way and i have my opposite way.. please keep on walking on your path and leave mine alone cuz i have no interest in walking your path..it leads to no where I would want to be.

And honestly, I'm sorry if ever offended you. I'm sorry if i used words with negative connotations to describe you and I hope u will forgive me for that. I'm just not interested in contiuing this discussion further with you. U have your way and I have mine. I'd rather part in peace because that's wht my God is teaching me.

And i highly suggest some public debating classes and Academic Writing class. In both classes, you will learn that Speech is a form of art and word choice is a BIG BIG factor in public debates. You will also learn that it is not about YOU, it is more about the LISTENER and how s/he will percieve your speech based on your tone, word choice, body language and so forth. You don't need someone to interpret to us what you meant. When that happens, know that you didn't communicate your point well. You could have used the word "unlawful" instead of "Bastard". We all know what a bastard is, but we all like to think that we have some skills when it comes to word choice and it will also help getting the point through. I know you are straight, and i know that straight men like women..that doesn't mean that i should say "woman f****r" to communicate the idea of a straight person.

Also, please know when people don't agree with you, it doesn't mean that they don't understand. They do, they just don't agree with you that's all.

I'm not being sarcastic. Seriously..i'm being honest and serious but i hope that u will give some thoughts about what i said and take it or leave it. I'm just giving you some final words of advice.

Sorry again for everything and may God be with you.

Salam

Civil unions between male couples existed around 600 years ago in medieval Europe, a historian now says.

Historical evidence, including legal documents and gravesites, can be interpreted as supporting the prevalence of homosexual relationships hundreds of years ago, said Allan Tulchin of Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania.For example, he found legal contracts from late medieval France that referred to the term "affrèrement," roughly translated as brotherment. Similar contracts existed elsewhere in Mediterranean Europe, Tulchin said.

In the contract, the "brothers" pledged to live together sharing "un pain, un vin, et une bourse," (that's French for one bread, one wine and one purse). The "one purse" referred to the idea that all of the couple's goods became joint property. Like marriage contracts, the "brotherments" had to be sworn before a notary and witnesses, Tulchin explained.

The same type of legal contract of the time also could provide the foundation for a variety of non-nuclear households, including arrangements in which two or more biological brothers inherited the family home from their parents and would continue to live together, Tulchin said.

But non-relatives also used the contracts. In cases that involved single, unrelated men, Tulchin argues, these contracts provide “considerable evidence that the affrèrés were using affrèrements to formalize same-sex loving relationships."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20464004/

The ins-and-outs of the medieval relationships are tricky at best to figure out.

"I suspect that some of these relationships were sexual, while others may not have been," Tulchin said. "It is impossible to prove either way and probably also somewhat irrelevant to understanding their way of thinking. They loved each other, and the community accepted that.”

*************************************************

Gay marriage = NO

Long term partnership = YES

Haven't you realized yet QB that Rumpel thinks Osama is a great man?

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to develop a brain:

"Sure sure sure..Let's all follow Bin Laden..he blieves in God..he does no filthy deeds. Point well made.."

This is the ONLY time you are talking logic!

"because when you believe in God, you will automatically have a moral barrier against filthy acts."

Sure sure sure..Let's all follow Bin Laden..he blieves in God..he does no filthy deeds. Point well made..

Ciao

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

no i was at home then a friend home thats all.

[img_assist|nid=73057|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

Da...Btw, heard u got locked up on Friday night. Is that true? :-p

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

LOL..Darude...exactly my thoughts...!!

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

You just added a new dimension to teh word 'spiteful' dude. Way to go!!

n comparing calling someone a 'bastard' to calling someone 'handicapped' really shows ur level of intelligence!!! Hats off to you!!

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

this thread is still on???????

qatariiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[img_assist|nid=73057|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

In my country, we don’t talk about “the disabled” as though they are a group apart, we say “persons with disabilities”

Also, we don’t use the word "handicap" because it can prompt negative images.

_________________________________________

“It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt!”

No we don't, we call disabled people disabled people now. Handicapped is offensive, just like bastard.

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("Wont be surprised if u did not get the point")

This shows what low-level brains some QLers have!

I believe that bastards have done no crime when they were born out of wedlock and that they should be treated as any normal person. They have no hand at all in the adultry that happened & caused them to be born. BUT...there is a word to describe them instead of using a long sentence such as "children born out of wedlock".

Now we come to discuss the "offensive" side of the word; maybe the person/people who invented this word had some wisdom in choosing an offensive word. Maybe they wanted it to be a permanent reminder to the parents, to the child when he/she grows, and to the whole society that there was a sin behind the birth of this child and that, beside being condemned by God, people will be suffering from this word/description for committing such a sin! Only God knows!

We also call a disabled person as "handicapped", and I don't see anything wrong/ugly in that!

Its not just abt using the right name Rumpel... Its about not using a name that will make someone look down on a child.

Thanx for the reference. The encarta dictionary says

"an offensive term for somebody born to unmarried parents".

My point is why do you need to use an "offensive" term for someone who has not committed any offence to anyone as per any standards.

Wont be surprised if u did not get the point.

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

"And abt 'bastard children'- I hate that word.

for me, a child is a child. If you hate the act that the child's parents did, fine! call them (the parents) names. But why give a despicable title to a kid for no fault of his/hers?"

I am not calling names! I am using the right word to describe things. You can check the dictionary, or ask "Southland" to check it for you!

"And Oh..let's not forget the "social diseases"..LOL.. As if pre-marital sex, gambling, robbery, murders, child molestation done by straight people, rape done by straight people,.oh wait..it gets better..getting married and cheating on your wife, having pre-marital sex and making illegitimate kids and throw them in an orphanage are NOT social diseases..they make a healthy nations..of course!!"

If you can develop some brain, you'd have understood that all the above ARE THE social diseases that I was referring to, and are common in societies where gays are accepted! You simply prove my point!

Bastard children made out of wedlock are accepted in the same societies that accept gays, simply because when you deny God, you will accept any filthy deed.

Bastard children made out of wedlock are rejected in the same societies that reject gays, simply because when you believe in God, you will automatically have a moral barrier against filthy acts. How low do I have to go to make you understand?

i think this is the peak of sexual sickness, as trying new things r always create adventure but already experiment shows that these r not normal.

Good to know you.. Hope all your dreams and wishes come true!

would be of a MALE & A FEMALE and their offsprings..correct?

You meen to say that if one part is missing to the/your "equation/definition" of a (NATURAL) family...it could not be called a family?

Then what do you call a mother with kids or a father with kids. The parents choose to be single and raise their kids by themselves...so THEY COULD NOT BE CALLED A FAMILY?

WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF (NATURAL)"FAMILY"?

You mean to say that 2 ADULT INDIVIDUAL (IRREGARDLESS OF THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION)could not raise a child and call themselves family?

I do agree with you on the drama queen point. Not that it is a big deal or anything ..sometimes it is fun and sometimes it gets on my nerves. And I will be honest to myself and say that if I see drama coming from a gay person, I wouldn't be shocked so to speak.. just because gay life is a drama by itself (to some extent, can't generalize).. but it is the truth and i will admit it.. but there are many gay people who are butch and masculine. I'm sure you already know that..

I can't really compare who makes better drama. But I have really enjoyed the drama here.. LOL.. now THAT'S Shocking. Why? because of the amount of weird illogical thoughts behind it. I mean, seriously Briexpat, if you were to think about it and close your eyes for a minute, you will start laughing because there is no relationship between any point. It is like a little Chihuahua with an ego as big as Alaska barking in the background just for the heck of it.. woof woof woof woof woof and there is no point to it..

For example, we have been accused for being sick and socially contagious or whatever..yet the same people who see us as twisted keep on talking to us..ok..if I'm sick, why do you keep talking to me ??..who is twisting your arms to stay in this forum ? which is more sickening at this point?.. I have always learnt that insanity means keeping on doing the same thing over and over and over knowing that it is not gonna get you anywhere. Do u see this scenario happening here? ??

And as I said, what do gay people have to do with unlawful children?. If anything, we pick them up from the orphanages or the street and raise them, but we don't make them. Why do I have to be blamed for that? It is like blaming me for Koreans because eat dog meat. Might as well!! That's the pointless and illogical part about this drama that amazes me.

But anyway.. I appreciate your support and you have your right to reject the word "marriage" when it comes to a gay union and I respect you for that. At least I'm glad to meet someone who is sensible, honest, respectful and straight forward. I admire than in a person. Thanks again man :)

Cheers

I'm on with read mode til i found the comment of d.solomon:

"Let them be what they are. What I am saying WRONG is the sexual relationship between same gender (man to man or woman to woman. It is already wrong and legalizing it is worse. What will be next?????????? Legalizing MURDER (as what the Vigilantes are doing), legalizing tribal cleansing (like what's happening in some parts of Africa) because in their opinion it's right, etc., etc."

I think there's no point of comparison between legalizing same gender sexual relationship to murder or tribal cleansing. Okei let say, sexual relationship between same gender is WRONG but with this no one is aggravated unlike in MURDER - it involves extermination of one's life.

Let's face it, same gender sexual relationships really exists and it is somewhat accepted in our society. But legalizing it a "NO NO" for me.

How to Find Your One True Love????? (http://onetruelovenetwork.com/)

What? You said: "What he is saying is that if at this time, what was unacceptable before are starting to be accepted, there is a very big chance that all the other unacceptable things will be accepted in the future and it will be our children and children's children who will debate the matters."

and I said all of those things, incest, beastiality and pedophilia that Rumpel keeps going on about, are things that have been previously accepted in our society and only in the last 50 or so years have become unacceptable. Sudan, UAE, India, etc already and have historically allowed marriage to animals, and it's only NOW that these things are being stopped. Until the last century, nobody thought anything of marrying off a 9 or 10 year old girl to a 50 year old man. So this whole unacceptable becoming acceptable thing makes no sense, because it's the opposite that's happening.

Now, perhaps you can try to have a mature conversation now?

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be matured. That's why I put in " P..." because it's not absolute. Debate my post by intelligent meaning and don't bring the camel to the picture.

To you, how do you define or what is your understanding of a society?

You're carrying your "abnormal" personal tirade in this topic. Be matured or you want to revert back to the early posts???????????? Your move!!!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

and have cut and pasted this bit of info from wiki

Marriage is an institution in which interpersonal relationships (usually intimate and sexual) are sanctioned with governmental, social, or religious recognition. It is often created by a contract or through civil processes. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution, in accordance with marriage laws of the land. If recognized by the State, by the religion(s) to which the parties belong and/or by society in general, the act of marriage changes the personal status of the individuals in the eyes of those authorities that recognize it.

For the full here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

Basically to sum it up a civil union is a state of marriage , it is just not that of a particular religion. so to say that a gay couple who have been through a civil union are actually married is not falsehood. In Australia and I am sure, but correct me if I am wrong, In America, Canada and the U.K. you still need to sign a marriage certificate, This crtificate is not issued by the church, it is issued by the government, hence the reason why most weddings, unions whatever you want to call them end in "by the power invested in me by the (fill in the state and country) I now pronounce you Man and Wife or Man and Man or wife and wife depending. It may also intrest you to know, that in these countries you have to be certified by the state you wish to preform wedding ceremonies in before officiating over a ceremony this includes all with no exeption to preists. If you do not sign the marriage certificate or the religous preist that presides over your wedding is not sanctioned then your marriage is void.(in other words you are not legally married.)

They aren't pretending to be happy families, they ARE happy families. And in the past society was a-ok with incest, pedophilia and beastiality (hell, they let men marry camels and goats in this part of the world) and it's only as society moves forward and realizes the damages these things cause that we are saying they are wrong, we are also saying that homosexuality harms no one, and has never been linked to any wrong doing.

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you are so amazing. I can't help but gain to comments as the defenders are back.

Rumpel is not saying if you are gays, you supporting the other "sinful" acts. What he is saying is that if at this time, what was unacceptable before are starting to be accepted, there is a very big chance that all the other unacceptable things will be accepted in the future and it will be our children and children's children who will debate the matters.

THE BASIC UNIT OF SOCIETY IS THE FAMILY (the natural one). The world was created as such. No other ways of creation but by union of the male sperm and woman's egg. This union will only be either natural or artificial (because society already accepted this method).

When Rumpel said that gay marriage will destroy society, it's because of this very basic definition of society. If gay couples adapted child or children and "pretend" to be a happy family, where will society go. If the children choose to be gays also, so who will be in-charge of our future. Encouraging such marriage will bring more moral issues and very dangerous. We will be living like "animals" where everything is ok to mate with or the law of who is mightier takes everything.

Your thoughts, please.!!!!!! Please excuse some of the words, I could not find a lesser bad words to describe what I want to relate.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

I can understand being against the term marriage, if you still believe in it's traditional meaning. But as I said, in Canada, we haven't subscribed to the traditional meaning for a long time, so it's just a word meaning a union between two people.

I know it's who you know, but trust me, the "straight" men here are bigger drama queens then the gay ones. :P

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If you read my last posting, I was against using the term "marriage" for same sex people. I agree fully that they should have rights under the law regarding txation, property, insurance etc etc.

As far as Drama Queens are concerned, I would beg to differ, but again it comes down to who you personaly know. I have a dear friend who is gay. he is the most tidy person I know, but when it comes to drama, he's in a league of his own. I also accompanied him to a couple of gay haunts in London.. Again, i found gays to be real drama queens.. But that is life and fun!

Agree with Winn, just look at the Cannibal Mom, she believes very very strongly in God, that's the whole point of the Grail Movement. Many of these people think God tells them to commit these henious acts. More crimes have been commited in Gods name then in denial of him.

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I think the problem here is that there is no education about being Gay, for the most part the religion preaches against it so those that are, are still very much in the closet and can't come out. Having done most of my adult growing up in the "Gay Capital of the Southern Hemisphere" I think nothing of it i have seen my gay friends fall in and out of love, seen most make a life commitment to their partner, even seen some who go onto have children with surrogate mothers or sperm donors and I have learn't one very important thing the only difference in their relationships compared to that of a hetro couple is NIL. For the most part their relationships are stronger as they have to go through so much just to be together and to have a child together, most of their children are teenagers now and have lived all their lives knowing who their parents are. In fact I've seen more hetro couples get divorced that were supposed to soulmates, made for each other BLah Blah Blah yet still my gay friends who are married are still together. So tell me again why Gays getting married should be any different from a hetro couple.

Rumpel:"Denying God is the main factor in destroying the society...... You will end up accepting homosexuality, accepting incest, accepting rape, accepting pedophiles, accepting prostitution/adultry & making bastard children....wives & husbands will be cheating on daily basis, making more bastard children, resulting in AIDS, crime, drugs, rape, homeless people/children...etc until the whole society sinks in such filthy social diseases ...."

Do u mean to say that criminals who did incest,rape,paedophilia or adultery are people who never confessed to a relegion/God? Gimme a break Dude...!!

Majority of the most notorious criminals I have read about not only believe the idea of God, they believe fanatically, forget Denying God. If you take the list of the worst criminals, I dare say, less than 10% would have denied the existence of God. So where does that leave you?

People who deny God but believe in ethics are any day better (for any society)than people who rave n rant relegion and spread hatred!!

And abt 'bastard children'- I hate that word.

for me, a child is a child. If you hate the act that the child's parents did, fine! call them (the parents) names. But why give a despicable title to a kid for no fault of his/hers?

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

QB, if I've learned anything from my gay friends it's that gays are nowhere near as capable of drama's as straights. I swear, the biggest Queen is less of a drama queen then most "straight" men.

I also don't understand how people can assume that if you support homosexuality you support all sorts of other things like incest, pedophilia, etc. I don't even see the connection between these things.

Britexpat, you don't have to personally approve of gay marriage, doesn't bother me one way or the other if you do, what I want people to realize is what QB says, it's about civil rights. If two gay people get married it in no way effects you. This is what I can't grasp, if it doesn't effect you, why do you care?

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

I bet you are having fun in here responding to some weird ideas. LOL..It is amazing how some people look at homosexuality and quickly give you conclusion like, once you are gay, then YOU GOTTA BE accepting incest, accepting rape, accepting pedophiles, accepting prostitution/adultery & making bastard children. You just can't be gay and not accept this..it is a combo.."please biggy size it too for me".. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH that you can be gay without adhering to these characteristics.. you just can't..

And Oh..let's not forget the "social diseases"..LOL.. As if pre-marital sex, gambling, robbery, murders, child molestation done by straight people, rape done by straight people,.oh wait..it gets better..getting married and cheating on your wife, having pre-marital sex and making illegitimate kids and throw them in an orphanage are NOT social diseases..they make a healthy nations..of course!!.. sorry..i just got the memo last week. I didn't know.. really..But let's call them "crimes" or "discouraged behavior" or a "cowardly acts" so it sounds better..anything..just don't call them disease..that word is reserved for gay people..i mean..cummon..u gotta be straight to have unlawful children..don't u think??..i just asked my friends and they all told me that you gotta have a man and a woman to make babies..i even asked them again ??..ARE YOU SURE??..two men together or two women together can't make babies ?? HOW SAD!! But we HAVE TO MAKE babies now..we have a social disease you know..i don't know how two men can make unlawful babies..i just don't see it...but that's ok.. two gay men/women can make unlawful babies now..whatever some diverted straight people do, you gotta blame gay people for it. i mean what da hell..we accept incest, might as well make unlawful babies..Why is the earlier more logical than the other..it's one big bowl of a social disease salad..can't pick the onions out!! EAT YOUR FOOD!! ALL OF IT..or be straight!!!

DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMA..and i thought gay people make good drama.. i should tell my gay friends about this.. they would love this..I LOVE IT!!!

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

buy nintendo wii games

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

Rumpel how eloquently you describe certain countries which shall remain nameless

"You will end up accepting homosexuality, accepting incest, accepting rape, accepting pedophiles, accepting prostitution/adultry & making bastard children....wives & husbands will be cheating on daily basis, making more bastard children, resulting in AIDS, crime, drugs, rape, homeless people/children...etc until the whole society sinks in such filthy social diseases (which will look for a new host everytime the people travel to a new country"

Azzi has stated time and time again that we have the ability to use “free speech” here. It’s not your position to tell us how we should word our sentences.

So instead of arguing about how somebody SAID something, why don’t you argue the actual TOPIC.

Stop nitpicking every single word in everybodys comments.

I think this is what bothers so many posters. (but I could be wrong)

The fact is, you’d rather pick apart somebodys “wording” then argue the actual topic at hand.

And just so we all understand, by “arguing” I mean debating, discussing and otherwise talking about said topic.

Thank you & have a marvelous night!

I don't believe Jesus mentioned his opinion on gay folk when we spoke the other day...I must ask God what he thinks, he probably doesn't give a toss, cos he's like that, he's got more to worry about than what people get up to in their personal lives.........mmmm musn't forget to ask....

I do wonder why some folks feel such a need to comment on religion in particular.

Religion is such a personal issue, it’s more personal than politics, even. I am an "Vampire" - Fallen Angel :), but I hold very firm to the right of everyone to believe how they want, and I hope their religion (or lack thereof) brings them comfort and joy. I think it’s an affront for one person to try to poke holes in another person’s belief system…

The interesting thing that I see is that there is a part of this thread where religious discussion CAN be made…yet no one bothers to comment there. Is it because no one really wants to have these discussions on this thread, after all ? Obviously not. So I wondered if the reason it must not be so popular is that the real need is not to share the joy of one’s own faith, but to make a public spectacle of the attempt to shred someone else’s faith.

Somebody suggested that QL's rule #1 be reworded to say:

“No religious discussions (for or against)."

and who is sitting next to Jesus at the last supper? None other than a bloke dressed as a woman...there you go..nuff said

it is just that your info is wrong

So we have Jesus and Mohammed, two great religious leaders who seemed unconcerned about homosexuality, and we have the incongruity of their followers who seem VERY preoccupied and concerned with it.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

and you sound so childish & silly when you ask: "which God" when people talk to you about God in general (which could have different names). As for:

"without referring to any gods, expand on 'it destroys the society..' Talk me through this rational."

1.people are free to address issues through any perspective they see from. You can not put conditions on that, just because it pleases you.

2.Yes, gays destroy the society. Also:

3.Denying God is the main factor in destroying the society. When you deny God, you have no more moral barrier against any filthy behavior. You will end up accepting homosexuality, accepting incest, accepting rape, accepting pedophiles, accepting prostitution/adultry & making bastard children....wives & husbands will be cheating on daily basis, making more bastard children, resulting in AIDS, crime, drugs, rape, homeless people/children...etc until the whole society sinks in such filthy social diseases (which will look for a new host everytime the people travel to a new country)

4.Believing in God/virtue will help you build a good character and a solid barrier against such diseases

Good for you. A bit obsessive for my tastes, but whatever floats your boat.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Is that your opinion Bae, or are you summarising the thread?

-------------------------------------

I've resisted entering this polarizing debate. From a glance of some posts, the discussion is interesting.

Bottom line: men are meant to marry women and visa versa. We are wired that way. Some men can meddle with the wiring and marry other men. But they are kidding nobody. Deep down...they know that what they are doing is hollow and meaningless. It may feel good and maybe it makes them happier for a time...but that little voice inside of them nags at them....convicting them, reminding them.

Thanks, you are correct..

You are entitled to your opinion on this matter and you don't have to agree. Your posts show thought about the issues and do not go all 'whacko' with hate speech and thinly disguised calls for confrontationaly drastic measures to solve the issue.

I think you are just against the word 'marriage'. I believe in the UK it is a civil partnership, extending legal rights to a partner of the same sex ie inheritance & property issues, classed as next of kin etc.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Thanks for shaing... Good article..

My parents are gay

Comments from kids

"Sometimes it's hard to tell people that my moms are lesbians because sometimes they don't understand."

"People at my school know my mom is gay and they know that my moms love me a lot and know we have fun with each other. There are lots of kids with gay parents but they don't want anyone to know because they think someone is going to make fun of them."

"My dads are gay and gay means when two men or two women love each other. It's sort of like having a mom and dad who love each other except it's a man and a man or a woman and a woman."

"It's really cool to have two gay dads because they brought us into a home and they adopted us and they love us."

"The only hard thing about having two moms is that sometimes kids use mean words for gays and lesbians and that hurts my feelings. I wish they knew it was OK to have two moms and it's OK to be different."

http://www.4children.org/news/101fam.htm

__________________________________________

Some "recommended" children's books:

Heather Has Two Mommies, by Leslea Newman

Daddy's Roommate, by Michael Willhoite

Who's in a Family, by Robert Skutch

Do I Have a Daddy? A Story About a Single-Parent Child, by Jeanne Warren Lindsay

_______________________________________

Somebody shoot me!

Yes, and fools seldom differ lol. Of course we are the former and not the latter ;)

-------------------------------------

The discussion is about legalizing / recognizing same sex marriage.

I have enjoyed this dscussion. Learnt thngs I didn't know. expressed my viewes and listened to others..

I have a number of gay friends. I have no problems with them "curling up in front of the fire with thir partners", I just can't reconcile to recognizing their parnership in a leal union called marriage. Perhas that is a weakness in me.

We are adults and should be able to disagree. Or do we all have to agree with what you belive to be right ?

I went through the same thought process as you just wrote Alexa.

-------------------------------------

I would have no hesitiation giving that boy to a loving gay couple. What are people afraid of? That they will 'turn' him gay? You can't 'turn' gay...you either are or you aren't.

-------------------------------------

100% my thoughts exactly adey. Unfortunatly most people on this forum won't agree with you, they see more bad in a loving same sex couple curling up by the fire with cocoa then they do a man who ignores his wife because he doesn't and can't possibly love her.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

and anyone else.

here is a very interesting article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/may/05/whatswrongwithbeinggayand

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Well Alexa in another thread there's a little boy who's parents tried to eat him....if a loving gay couple offered to adopt him (and all his multitude of major psychological issues) would you say no?

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

Sorry, I'm speaking of the Canadian/US definition. I don't know anything about the UK.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

My understanding is to the contrary. In the UK, it as brough in specifically for the same sex partners, but I will double check!

Civil partnerships in the United Kingdom, granted under the Civil Partnership Act 2004, give same-sex couples rights and responsibilities identical to civil marriage. Civil Partners are entitled to the same property rights as married opposite-sex couples, the same exemption as married couples on inheritance tax, social security and pension benefits..

Sorry Britexpat, civil union wasn't brought in for gay couples, it was brought in for couples that didn't want to marry. In fact, gays had to fight to even be allowed to have that little bone, which doesn't ensure you the same rights as a married couple. What happened in Canada, instead of making up new defintitions, etc, we changed the defintion of marriage. If it has stayed with the oringinal, religious, connotations I would never agree to marry.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

without referring to any gods will, or any other such terms of reference, I would be pleased if you, or anyone else, could expand on "it destroys the society, and will end humanity.

Talk me through this rational.

Many thanks

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

It's against god willing, and against nature for sure. And we must say that it's a psychological issue, not more than that. Because god created two sex, there are no 3rd or 4th sex.

I know many people would disagree with me, but honestly, FIX YOURSELF ! You can't call this freedom of act, because freedom is to do something which won't affect others. But by allowing gay marriage, it destroys the society, and will end humanity.

And anyways, it's legal in some countries as I know. But there is no way it's going to be legal in Qatar :)

You keep saying the same thing like some mantra.

As for this:

"Some countries around the world which have drifted away from God"

Which god would this be? - that's why there is separation because there are many people believing in many gods or none in a country.

I deny the existence of your god, or any other gods, so why should I be beholden to the diktats of your imaginary friend? If you wish to believe, then so be it, but your rules don't get to be imposed on everyone.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

THANK YOU..that's all I wanted to hear..

I don't mind it when people say No to gay marriage.. that is fine..But it would be much more effective when you provide a soultion since THERE IS ONE they just don't wanna spit it out..I always feel like i'm pulling teeth to get to that point.

All you need to say..No gay marriage should not be legalized, however, we can settle with something else like a civil union through which you can get all your civil rights just like anyone in whatever country they live in. Otherwise it will be considered discrimination. ALL citizens should have access to the same rights regardless of who, how, where and when they are.. We don't have to agree with each other, but since we both are citizens of a country, then under the law, we are both equal. The name of the certificates is just pure technicality.

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Winn: pork and Alcohol was just an example, to justify my statement about why things are forbidden.

You know, that you are screwed, when ur phone rings, while you sneak into your own house like a thief and your wife is asleep at 3 am in the morning... Perhaps that would be the last time you enter your own house lol.

on your previous list you forgot to mention NSW Australia as being a place that gay civil marriages are allowed. NSW also allows full rights to gay defacto couples after 6 months of living together as it is for hetro couples.

I would. Civil unions were bought in to cater for same sex couples.

It is now up to those governments to modify their legal and relate systems to come into line..

Dracula, do you have an idendity crisis, or why do you always seem to get personal?

Stalins role played in the Revolution in October 1917 was insignificant (which was hushed up later), but afterwards he proved himself skilful in solving the problems which popped during the Civil War.

He was named first Minister of the Nationalities

Stalins slogan,was “Socialism in one single country”

.

The "single country" = URSS

.

Former URSS countries (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan,. Uzbekistan, Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova,. Turkmenistan, Tajikistan)

"Destroy the (Former URSS countries)family, you destroy the (Former URSS)country." -- V.I. Lenin

.

"Divide et impera"— "divide and conquer" — is an ancient strategy...

_________________________________________

Light travels faster than sound.

This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

So i were to propose an upgraded version of civil union, or a two-fagot certificate, that would would give me all my rights, would u vote yes to that ??

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

"there is a separation between religion and the state in most sane countries"

these are the facts about your "sane" countries:

"Some countries around the world which have drifted away from God, abused "freedom" and ended up with serious social diseases. I am talking about countries where unmarried partners can live together legally, bastard children are considered legal, gays are accepted..etc. I don't care about the religion of such countries...but coincidence might have another say!

The thing that western people can't seem to grasp is that marriage, in the rest of the world, is still a religious institution.

This is the main reason behind their frustration when they see that the rest of the world has still enough virtue to reject the western filth to be dominant in their societies!"

One more for the anti gays out there. Ellen has announced that She and Portia have set a wedding date. YOU go Girls!!!

This is my single answer,QB!

LIFE TOGETHER IN LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS!

No marriage!

.

Sorry, i cant help you!

Homosexuality continues to be strongly rejected by the Roumanian society.

.

At the question "do you believe gay people should be accepted as any other people?”, most respondents, 52 %, said no, and only 34 % said yes; the rest of 15 percent refused to give an answer.

Homophobia is highly present at practically all social levels, although educated young people in urban areas are more tolerant.

77% of Roumanians would feel disturbed if made passes by a person of the same-sex.

Two thirds would have the same reaction if they saw two people of the same sex kissing in the street, irrespective if they are men or women.

More than half of the respondents would be upset to find out that a person in their entourage or their family doctor is gay, while 45 % would not feel comfortable to learn that an office colleague has a different sexual orientation.

And yet 9 percent of respondents admitted to having been attracted at least once by people of the same sex.

**************************************

In conclusion, couple life in Roumania is still dominated by tradition, saying that if you want to be a real man , you should achieve three things in life: build a house, plant a tree and have a child.

God bless you!

If I may! I understand and agree with your points. On a personal level hough, I am against "marriage" for gay couples.

I agree though that there needs to be mechanism, like the "civil union" to protect the rights of the partners. Although again, many countries have protection for couples who are co-habiting. As things are going, I am sure that taxation and pension benefitswill also be incorporated soon.

"Destroy the family, you destroy the country." -- V.I. Lenin

Great..i like the come back..

when you have two BF's or two GF's together, that's not a family..it is just two people together. and a piece of papaer is not gonna change that definition..it still the same..it just add more civil rights..period..there is no kid involved, no family reunion involved..none that would qualify as a "family" from a straight point of vie..and when we use the term "family" in a gay cotext..we really mean gay friends..doesn't go beyond that. There is no family in a gay couple relationship..

So..that gay person will either spend his life alone or with a BF.. there is no family involved... so how does this verse apply to us ??

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Quoting Dracula:

"Destroy the family, you destroy the country." -- V.I. Lenin

"In 1918, the Russian revolutionary Vladimir Lenin abolished marriage and declared the family obsolete. His motive was simple: the "family" prevented women from doing work that was useful to the state."

How can Lenin do that if he says this?

Which books? there are so many. Oh, you mean pushing your holy book! Well now, the thing is that 87% of people on earth don't proscribe to your book, so stop trying to push it on to others. Thats why there is a separation between religion and the state in most sane countries. Hey, just because a state legalizes gay marriage or civil union doesn't make it compulsory you know - if your religious conviction stops YOU from accessing that then good for you but others are not beholden to your view.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Good post..i agree with you..but here is what i want from you though:

You have two gay men in front of you who want to be together. You just told them what you just posted. Where does this leave them ?? how could u help them is what i'm asking? You said no to the word marriage, fine, ok..i respect that. But that didn't solve anything..so what solutions do you have for them ??? that's EXACTLY what i'm looking for.

It is ok for you to say NO..NO GAY MARRIAGE. sure.. But I'd much rather hear a solution from you instead of leaving it up in the air. It would make much more sense that way. So what can you offer them?..

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

"Destroy the family, you destroy the country." -- V.I. Lenin

So in other words, gay people shouldn't have rights at all? is that whay you mean by no to gay marriage ??

sorry..i'm a bit confused as to why you say no to gay marriage. or what's the reasoning behind it. Please put the sex aside and God and let's talk civil rights.. so from that perspective, why shouldn't gay people be united in a form of a contract?

Thanks again for listening to my points.

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

In 1918, the Russian revolutionary Vladimir Lenin abolished marriage and declared the family obsolete. His motive was simple: the "family" prevented women from doing work that was useful to the state.

Do you see the stunning parallel to the current crisis of our times?

The stability of the modern family today is not only being slandered, but slaughtered!

Indeed, bad things will continue to happen if good people do nothing.

We face a daunting challenge.

However, the well-being of future generations is dependent upon the way we answer this imminent threat now.

God and history will judge us on how we handle this crisis.

In the National Review Online article by Maggie Gallagher, the author notes: "Marriage is not an option, it is a precondition for social survival.

"Winning the gay-marriage debate may be hard, but those of us who witnessed the fall of Communism, despair is inexcusable and irresponsible."

Before closing, I want to offer a word of hope.

I have said on numerous occasions that the institution of marriage was created and ordained by God.

If that is true-and I wholeheartedly believe that it is-then no wrong-headed law can destroy it.

But while God's plan for marriage cannot be undone, man's attempt to create an "alternative" promises to leave a legacy of confusion, turmoil and broken lives throughout our society.

Please pray with me that a meltdown of that magnitude does not happen.

Yes, do be in concerted prayer for the family, for our leaders, and for our nation.

If we get out of the mess we are in now, it will be due to nothing short of divine intervention and guidance.

.

I pray that the Lord would grant us the wisdom and strength to defend marriage.

God bless you.

one example is through His holy books?

Want more examples? go do your homework, yourself!

No..i'm not Gypsy.. i'm only QatarBear

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

YOU check with god????!!!! Got a bat-phone? Even if there was one!

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

it is not the governments who define marriage. It is GOD!

Once we accept to marry according to GOD's law, then we can see, check & discuss if God has accepted, legistlated & blessed Gays & their marriages.

This has to be the most amusing of the things that most of the anti-homosexual people spout Azi or QB during their protests. I'm all for people disagreeing on whether it's "okay", but at least back it up with some kind of intelligence and debating skill.

Both sides have good points. I obviously don't agree with QatarBear, but I can respect everyone for bringing up valid points that stresses the views of their own side. But like I said: intelligence is key to any debate.

****************************************

Back to topic:

the governments should make up its mind and define marriage as it is first.

"The union between a man and a woman".

Marriage and the family is the foundation of all healthy societies.

This is the irrefutable IRON VERDICT OF HISTORY.

I defy anyone to show me differently with credible proof.

***************************************

GAY,GAY MARRIAGE? = NO,NO,NO,NO!

was before so why now? With all of my respect to all of them out there ...

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. (Gautama Buddha)

Azzi what adult discussion??? only adults r gay in this world?

You know, that you are screwed, when ur phone rings, while you sneak into your own house like a thief and your wife is asleep at 3 am in the morning... Perhaps that would be the last time you enter your own house lol.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

I can't help answering QB's post (BTW, QB, you are not Gypsy, are you?) As I've said, I'm not into profile digging....

anyway, maybe you can start another thread....and I'm sure it will a blockbuster such as this..... GAY RIGHTS? or THIRD SEX' RIGHTS (or 4th SEX for the lesbians?), start it and I'll join the discussion!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

no matter the amount of dogs barking.

Remember this arabic proverb, adey. It suits you 100%!

When somebody can't find a hole to insert their filth in a society, and when they lack logic to give explanation to their filth, they start making personal attacks.

Let's hope 1 day people like you will manage to lift their brain levels above the ground, and start to have a little education in order to be able to talk...not bark

Don't bother answering 'Airsupply' or 'Rupple...' as he is now called, he just spouts bile and is a lost cause.

He probably 'whacks off' to all the attention he gets, the more vile he is the more he 'chokes the chicken'. I just laugh at the mental image of him furiously doing a 'five knuckle shuffle' over his keyboard.......he protests too much.

:)

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

"The thing people can't seem to grasp is that marriage is no longer a religious institution in the West..."

The thing that western people can't seem to grasp is that marriage, in the rest of the world, is a religious institution.

This is the main reason behind their frustration when they see that the rest of the world has still enough virtue to reject the western filth to be dominant in their societies!

Hey buddy,

Like we talked before.. the problem is when people see the word "marriage" is when they start fighting. Just like gypsy said, we, at this point, have different definitions for marriage. There are people who will think God's blessing in that contract, and there are people who will think CIVIL RIGHTS in that contract. So we will never agree. EVER!!

I think we should reword the question.

Should gay people have some sort of a contract that will grant them all civil rights just as married straight couple ?

i dunno..how about that ?? just take the word marriage out because some don't have the intellectual capacity to understand what we are talking about and some do..so let's just make it easier for everyone.

Should gay people have any rights at all ?? or have a contract to be united in one way or another ??

I say Yes...surprise, hu ??...ROFL

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Ok.. you sound knowledgeable about the subject so if you don't mind, i will need your help. And i'm not being sarcastic..i'm serious.

So I got married for 2 years to try to change my "choice" even though I don't see why i would get someone else's life involved if it was just a choice. I could have woken up an say.."u know what?? I think i will be straight today. Better yet..i will be gay on weekends, straight on monday, tuesday and bisexual on wednesday, thursday and friday"..if i can do that, then that is a choice..

Add to that, I went to see a psychiatrist for 4 years..so i asked him about the choice theory..and the funny thing is that he gave me an apple and showed me an orange and a banana. He said "you like oranges and bananas? i said yes. he said, do you want either one ? i said..sure..he said chose one and give me my apple back. so i did, he told me to chose one. I took an orange. He said why did you do that? i told him cuz It's juicer than a banana. he said was it easy to give up the apple ? i said ya..he said, why ?? i said because i'm a bit thirsty and i know i can get more fluid out of an orange than banana or an apple, and to get more juices in these two fruits you have to pump them with jucie. Then he suddenly asks me, then why are you gay ?? I told him, I wouldn't be here if i knew why i am gay. So i asked him..what is the point ?? he said, you knew why you wanted the orange, you know what it will offer you, you also knew why an apple is not gonna help you because you know what makes an apple apple and what it will provide to you. So you have enough information that can help you make a decision so that's a choice at this point. You don't know why you are gay, yet you are one. So How are you expecting to change something you don't know where it is coming from? We- psychiatrist- work with other doctors to prove theories we have. the gene theory didn't work, hormone imbalance? we could have made the whole earth either gay or straight by manipulating that balance. So no..it isn't.. Then he said, I can give you more information about homosexuality and different studies that were conducted, different unproven theories but i can't change you. you are who you are and i can help you find a way to live with it from a psychological aspect..other than that u need to understand that there is a very slim percentage of people who actually DO CHANGE.. those are often ones that have a history of child molestation and get psychiatric help at early stages when they were kids. And often we find tendencies towards women and we work on that.. he was talking about 1-3%.

So red Pope.. my question is.. how is this a choice ?? how do you chose your sexual orientation ?.. why is it that i can't change my choice, and why is it called a choice when you can't chose something else? is it just because it sounds more convenient to you since you don't know how to answer it ??

What makes you believe it is a choice?..seriously..no hard feelings..just a mature discussion..because i did my part to change..i got married, i saw psychiatrists, i came out to my family to get their support, i even went to mosques and had 1-on-1 sessions with shiekhs..NONE OF THESE THINGS WORKED..is it still a choice?. Why would i drive myself nuts and go from one country to another if it was as simple as a choice i could do over a cup of coffee.I DON'T THINK SO..

and just so you know my friend, there are people who CHOSE gay sex for the sake of entertainment, like your professional colleagues of yours (I call them bisexuals in the closet). and there are gay people who are STUCK with it and would take the "Straight Pill" if you offer them one (i'm one of them). The later group happens to be the majority of gay people. So not because some PEOPLE who CHOSE to get involved in gay sex, may be because they are bisexual may be ??, then it means that gay people chose their sexual orientation. In other words, not because someone who doesn't know whether to go straight or gay then it means that gay people are on the same boat. No they are NOT!!!

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

but since RUMPEL also kept insisting I'M LESBO and do "INCEST"...I'll leave it as that coz that makes RUMPEL felt justified and happy...lol

RUMPEL have nothing much to say about the topic nor response to QATARBEAR & ZENON SO HE continously does his TIRADE TOWARDS me.

DMIGTYSOLOMON...i got friends here in QL who gave their VIEWS/OPINION and went to other threads. ZENON, QATARBEAR,DRACULA are QL posters actively participating in this thread, just like you.

Sorry QB, Canada has gay marriage. Couples getting married get the same license and the wording has been changed so that it's androgynous. A "civil union" in Canada is a common-law relationship, and while it does provide for some of the benefits of a marriage, it does not provide for them all.

I would agree with you about civil-union and marriage if A) the benefits were 100% the same or B) marriage was still considered a souly religious institution in the West. The thing people can't seem to grasp is that marriage is no longer a religious institution in the West, I can get a marriage certificate but I do not have to be married in front of a priest, reverend or imam, I would only do that if I wanted my marriage sanctified in the eyes of the great big sky daddy, which I don't. When Canada instiuted (5 years ago!) gay marriage it made sure that it was specified that religious institutions did not have to perform ceremonies etc. Luckily some have decided to see the stories of Soddom and Gormorrah for what they are, stories, and are now performing gay marriages. (You can see the little rainbow flags on the there signs).

Marriage is a word that, although, started with a religious meaning, no longer holds a purely religious meaning.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

it end up as QB and Zenon versus Red Pope and Rumpel on the other side.

To all posters, this is my final post:

Civil aspects or fighting for certain "human" rights or privileges, I'll go 50/50 if they can't do it outside of union.

Religious aspect. IT'S 100 % no and a big NO.

Now, what weighs more? It's up to you GUYs and GALs and the In-Betweens, whatever you are. Your personal conviction will bring you to the future life you want, whether UP or DOWN (that is, if you believe there is one true GOD who created this world, but if you don't, there's nothing to argue with you.

GOOD DAY EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!! For this thread only. Thanks, Azzi!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

With every post you make, you prove that you are a "smart a55!" Ooops! Sorry man/woman! I was reffering to your brain, not your means of living!

Don't worry, you are not an annoying constant reminder. It is fun to read some useless posts, sometimes!

I liked the joke that a gay is asking me to apologize! Once you quit being gay, have some self-respect & start understanding what is wrong & what is right, maybe then you can talk about apologies!

I am still insisting on not accusing a specific religion or a specific country.

All I said is there are countries around the world which have drifted away from God, abused "freedom" and ended up with serious social diseases. I am talking about countries where unmarried partners can live together legally, bastard children are considered legal, gays are accepted..etc. I don't care about the religion of such countries...but coincidence might have another say!

Red Pope,

My Facts about the US is VERY straight actually more of ("Gayly" forward).. I mentioned the US twice in my pots.once when i said that Hawaii, Vermont, Connecticut and add Oregon to that have have civil unions, Massachusetts and California (Recently) have legalized gay marriage.. and it is not a complete one none the less.

Rumpelstiltskin..i have 5 minutes to waste so i will waste it replying to your very embarrassing posts.

1.This is a topic that keeps coming up again and again in the press! (Imagine!)

what are you saying here ?? pointless..i don't need to imagine..it is a reality..pick up a newspaper.. that's all u need to do.

2.VARIOUS countries, cities, and states legalize same-sex marriage! (I was informed that they were "different", but now I know that they are "various")

Such a weak come back to cover up your embarrassing post. What a point you are making there..wow..i'm impressed..what's the point again ??

"I mean, where would be if there were no such informative posts like this, and like yours (about the 17 countries). I am sure we would be lost!"

Speak for yourself..may be YOU are the lost one??..other people know that there are countries that have legalized gay marriage..not because you are oblivious about this fact then the rest of the world is lost with you..YOU ARE LOST..not them.

Here is a new brilliant thought for you.. some religions don't have our GOD in them..happy now ???..one example is Buddhism where they celebrate gay marriage as well. of course this is way to advanced for you since you never knew about it as well i'm sure..by the way should i go get you 17 more examples too ?? are can you use google this time ??

so about my "smart" formula, i didn't say God, i said religion. If you can't separate between the two or know when both can go together and when both can go separate ways, then you are pretty much oblivious to the religion topic as well because you don't read my friend. You listen from people and you repeat like parrots..not expecting you to have that mental capacity to understand other religions that don't have God in them, yet they are still called religions.

"What is amazing, is that none of the 17 countries you mentioned, is a muslim country."

I fi remember correctly, you were asking about countries, NOT Muslim countries. So please don't add this "Muslim countries" now so u can save your face. No habibi..too late now..weak cover up and cheap too.. Hummer was not talking about Muslim countries, and your reply had nothing to do with Muslim countries; consequently, the reply will have no Muslim countries..but if you want one, google Oman..they may not have "legalized gay marriage", but they have something called "SUTRA" that allow men (Married or single) to have a relationship with other men. Of course this is all brand new news to you. News that are VERY OLD to the rest of the world. Oh wait..u want another Arab country that is recognizing gay rights slowly ?? Lebanon..Actually Gay Pride is next month..why don't you go bash them while they are marching down the street..may be you will scratch an itch or something..

and no..i still can't relate what you said with social disease because in fact you have nothing to support your argument. I have never heard anything from you that goes beyond social disease..no facts, no studies, no statistics..none..just rambling like a parrot and expecting people how have a grain of brain in their minds to just follow what you said..

Didn't I say the more you talk the more you show it..this keeps proving itself..great..keep it up.

PS: You still haven't apologized for the people here. And don't worry habibi.i won't forget it and i will keep on posting it until you make up your mind. Either continue being stuck up and dig a graveyard for yourself here and people will slowly start to ignore you or apologize and everything will be ok from that point on. But i will be an annoying constant reminder until you take that step.

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Zenon

As for religons -yes there are religons that are accepting of homosexual tendencies. Even western religons such as Catholisism accept that a homosexuality tendency is not, in and of itself, a sin. It is the homosexual act that is 'sinful'.

On the catholic perspective only, being Gay or Lesbian is being accepted, Ok fine.

But HUMAN nature and the lust of the flesh and the desire to interact sexually is always a major denominator in pushing the act.

In my opinion, the act of sex, among the same sex, is not acceptable still very sin-full and marriage of the same sex should continue to be ban by the 48 states.

Here is another fact, that gay people wont like to discuss openly, some facts of the truth about science.

When was the last time a man gave birth to a child?

When was the last time a woman got pregnant by other woman?

Unless they are carrying, both sex genitals and I doubt, if they are able to do any kind of fertilization, the hormones will be overwhelming destructive to the sperm or ovarian eggs or having any physiological deformity internally.

Don't tell me that is a natural thing to be Homosexual or lesbian?

Don't give us the excuse that your hormones is the issue?

There is treatment for hormones instability, you know that.

That you choose to be a GAY OR LESBIAN PERSON IS YOUR CHOICE! No one else.

Don't give me the excuse, that you are a being treated worst and unfair from the rest of the recognize minority group, is your choice not mines.

Yet it is true, you are and still a "human being," a very unique and special "human being", who needs mental and physiological treatment and not legal treatment. You still a citizen.

I guess the same religious fashions are always looking for converts, I guess that gay and lesbian people are doing the same.

But since we live in a democratic society and we all obey the laws, you are very bless or lucky, that is not the inquisition of the middle ages.

As for Canada and other places, I care less...

Will someone, Explain to me the percentage of AIDS recipients in the gay and lesbian population?

Unfortunately, it is illegal to ask anyone, about your sexual preference, when collecting demographic data.

Yet, I have encounter decent professionals that are gay, they admit to it, that was their choice and no one else.

Here is the funny part of applying for a job application, birth certificates etc, etc there is two sex genders to select, MALE OR FEMALE and not other......i guess they want to change that too.

Could someone tell me and correct me, that people are born gay or lesbian?

Again, is your choice to decide your sexual preference, not mines.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

In the Fall of 1999, the Kansas City Star sent a questionnaire to 3,000 priests in the U.S. 73% did not reply.

The low response rate could be anticipated.

One would expect homosexuals and bisexuals to be reluctant to respond to the questionnaire since it deals with such a sensitive issue, and originated from a newspaper.

Homosexual and bisexual priests would probably be less likely to reply to the survey.

Among the 801 priests who did reply: 75% said they had a heterosexual orientation;

-15% homosexual;

-5% bisexual.

.

During 1990, Rev. Thomas Crangle, a Franciscan priest in Passaic, N.J., mailed a survey to 500 randomly selected priests. Of the 398 responses, about 45% said that they were gay.

As Father McBrien said "the Catholic Church will run out of priests, [and] will certainly run out of heterosexual priests."

Thanks man/woman! This is very fresh information! 17 countries?

I mean your post was very informative but not as much as hummer's. That post was THE best. That post allowed us to know:

1.This is a topic that keeps coming up again and again in the press! (Imagine!)

2.VARIOUS countries, cities, and states legalize same-sex marriage! (I was informed that they were "different", but now I know that they are "various")

3.Various countries, cities, and states DEBATE the legalizing of same-sex marriage.

I mean, where would be if there were no such informative posts like this, and like yours (about the 17 countries). I am sure we would be lost!

So QB, 13 countries have gay marriage ("God" is included, according to your formula), but 4 countries have only civil union ("God is NOT included, according to your other formula)...hahaha

(I always knew that you were "smart")

What is amazing, is that none of the 17 countries you mentioned, is a muslim country. Can you now relate this list to my earlier statement that some countries around the world are infected with social diseases and that their subjects are dying to have the rest of the world be infected with the same diseases?

dmigty: Yes it was considered an abnormality some decades back and I have posted the reasons why in my previous post. Those studies were based on psychoanalysis and were not free from prejudice. Also they were mostly hypothetical not empirical or clinical.

(Pls read again the 4th para of my post on Fri, 20/06/2008 - 1:07pm if u want 2 know why)

Just because it was considered an abnormality till 1970's does not mean they were right in thinking so. And believe me, what made them do so was the overwhelming clinical (read unbiased) evidence in favor of the normalcy.

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

very well said!!!!!!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

GOOD MORNING TO ALL

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

10thFloor lol...but what if it were two women getting married?! Two wives! Yikes!!!!

Should GAY Marriage Be Legal ???

NO NO NO

Why should a man have the legal benefits of being married WITHOUT having to deal with a WIFE? That just wouldn't be fair to the rest of us. Let everybody pay the same price.

She is the author of this wonderful thread. Just additional toughts from me,....

Again, I would like to say that I abide by Azzi's request to "temporarily" released the religious aspects of the discussion but the posts made by the "letest-posters" seems to be concentrated to religious aspects.

Theye was even a very "intelligent person" implying that I was wrong when I say that in the medical point of view, it's considered abnormality and yet, the articles he/she quoted strengtened that it was until the 1970 wherein they re-classify it(I just don't know if re-classifying it will invalidate my view and all the doctors (I talked to)who viewed is as I am saying.

Anyway, Azzi' friends(QB and Zenon, and I supposed Dracula but some of his/her, are you a man or woman Dracula, I'm not used in checking profiles, latest post seems to side with me) opted also to go on name-calling and bashing heads. Ok guys, back to topic.

If there were great Gays who lived in the past, it has nothing to do with the topic. It does not solidify your argument to legalize gay marriage. Adoring them and their achievements is NOT a reason to legalize marriage. All along, I was right in saying that gay union (or marriage as to some) was a convenient ways to get their right to their partners wealth or conjugal properties and avoid the hassles of long court proceeding.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

"I do have a life outside QL "

I already told you what kind of life you have "outside QL"...or at least this is what I have been informed!

We're waiting... What did u get up to ?;0)

The question of this topic was straight forward, yet it has sparked such fierce debate.. This shows that its not jus a simple yes/no.. People make their deisions based on culture/upbringing/prejudices/religion/subjectivity etc etc..

There are numerous grey areas.

Perhaps the question should be "Would you accept it if your son or daughter announced they were gay and setting up home with their partner?"

If the answer is yes, then youshould support the legaliztion of gay marriages.

Actually, I do have a life outside QL so after making a post or two, I went :-)

No skin off my nose, really...have a nice weekend...

Interesting link:

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/125347

Gee Rumpelstiltskin put a lot of time and effort into quoting you multiple times in one of his ealier quotes - enough said lol.

And Red_pope another thought about an ealier quote if yours:

"Maybe in the future, In some far away Galaxy, in a distant planet, probably called "Gay Heaven," there will a colony for your kind, with their own Constitution and set of laws and maybe their own RELIGION!"

well no not really - just get on a plane and fly to Canada - in terms of laws - and the number of countries is growing. As for religons - yes there are religons that are accepting of homosexual tendencies. Even western religons such as Catholisism accept that a homosexuality tendency is not, in and of itself, a sin. It is the homosexual act that is 'sinful'.

Quote "Good luck, in your decision of being a gay person." I don't think it was exactly his decision ... If you read his earlier post he said he was married for 2 years in an attempt to "overcome" his sexual orientation. His wife knew this as well.

I don't think people choose their sexuality - albeit for sure some do and some expirement.

So much to read. . . Anyway I caught your points about marriages v. unions and appreciate your perspective and agree about the equality under the law issue, etc.

I guess I'm similar to the Libertarian point of view, in which government should stay out of people's private lives and consenting adults can do what they may (provided under basic human rights of course). I am also a believer in there is a time and place for everything and no couple should be overly flirtatious in public (common decency applies).

Anyone who believes in G-d will answer for their own actions accordingly (based in the logic that only G-d is judge for acceptance into heaven).

QatarBear said:

Here is why:

I'm a US citizen, Arab originally, but i can't sponsor a man from overseas if i fall in love with him, while my straight counterpart can issue a fiance visa, get to the US and start the immigration process. As a gay person, I don't have the right for tax relief because i can't file jointly to get that benefit, but if you are straight and have a girlfriend, u can file as domestic partner and get the tax benefits. Also you can add inheritance. If I have a partner that i lived with for, let's say 25 years and he dies, i have no right to inherit whatever we collected TOGETHER. EVERYTHING goes to the state and leaves you strip naked.

Respectfully,

Maybe in the future, In some far away Galaxy, in a distant planet, probably called "Gay Heaven," there will a colony for your kind, with their own Constitution and set of laws and maybe their own RELIGION!

In the mean time the fight and struggle will continue.

Good luck, in your decision of being a gay person.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

If a person is born with two sexes, is not consider a homosexual or lesbian, If his hormones, are more woman alike and he chooses to have a sex change, is up to science and the law to decide their gender in declaring that person a woman or a man.

But when you are a fully functioning and capable man or woman and you choose to be gay or lesbian, then is your decision.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

Hold your instincts:

Here is some information about the USA legalizing Marrriage of the same sex.

There is only 50 states in the Union.

Only two states legalized marriage of the same sex.

1-California.

This coming Election, the people of California will vote to decide the permanent status of this issue or too dissolve it.

Since the 61% per cent voted against it and the only technical part was that there is nothing legalizing sex of the same marriage in the US Constitution, neither it says is ilegal. That is why the lifted the ban.

2= Massachusetts, they lifted the ban.

The rest of the 48 states have a ban on it or they consider illegal, punishable with jail in some states.

Get your facts straight, when it comes to the USA.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

This thread is getting hotter by the minute but it's all about choices. Same Sex marriage(Civil Union) should be perfectly ok in countries where it's accepted my the masses and not ok where not accwpted by the masses :0.As for the monarchies - The religion will dictate the government stand. I know this sounds diplomatic but then people have the freedom to choose what they want. Not legalising it will lead to complications.Legalising it will make things easier for the involved and will not impact the uninvolved in any way. If you are not gya/lesbian - Why bother wherther they get married or not?LOL

Life is Beautiful...Indeed!

I'm sorry..... ROFL... but i really couldn't help it..LOL.

Which countries have legalized gay marriage ??..ARE YOU KIDDING ME??...you REALLY REALLY DON'T KNOW ???... LOL

Seems like you have slept your life away..you certainly never read a newspaper so it seems..in case you didn't get the memo here is the LIST of countries that have legalized gay marriage:

Denmark

Norway

Sweden

Iceland

Finland

Netherlands

Belgium

Spain

Germany

France

Luxembourg

Britain

Canada

wait wait..and here is a list of countries that have civil union:

USA

Argentina

New Zealand

South Africa

LOL..Maaaaaan...where do you live buddy ?? i mean not just one country, not two, not three, not four..but 17.. S E V E N T E E N..and you have NO CLUE WHAT SO EVER that such thing exist ?? Boy!!..seriously..the more you talk, the more you show it..keep it up..this is turning to be very entertaining. ROFL..

ok..let me catch my breath..wheeew..i never laughed so hard like that in a while...LOL.. thanks for the laugh!!!

Please more!!..MORE PLS!!...LOL..

Why do I even bother??!!...ROFL

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

very well-said. Thank you for the valuable information!

Where? In which press is it coming? which countries/cities/states have legalized/debating this marriage?

This is a topic which keeps coming up again and again in the press as various countries, cities, and states legalize or debate the legalizing of same-sex marriage.

These people are not worth arguing believe me. They don't worth any penny.

how silly & stupid you sound when you neglect the main topic and try to act as traffic police?:

"KINDLY ADDRESS YOUR MAGNANIMOUS INTELLIGENCE towards QATARBEAR & ZENON coz THEY are able to give their side (as clear as it could be) regarding their stand on the TOPIC. QATARBEAR is your fellow MUSLIM..."

what? fellow muslim? I thought you were braging that religion has nothing to do with this thread? Why do you keep jumping all the time? Why dont you make up your mind in what you want? Or is this a sign that you are lost & have no grounds to support your "pro-gay" theory?

My advice to you is to stick to the topic

As for:

"Wasn't it the reason you got banned before in the first place? because you questioned the QL admin/mods for deleting your topic threads???"

No I have not been banned before, but thank you for the information that the admin/mods of QL ban people if they dare ask/question about deleted threads! Very democratic indeed!

The person who creates a TOPIC here in QL is reponsible for that thread. The QL admins/moderators are the ones who will delete/edit a topic thread if it violates the community rules.

So, it's MY CALL to make sure that the topic stays in it's pace...it's called DECORUM, if I'm not mistaken.

Wasn't it the reason you got banned before in the first place? because you questioned the QL admin/mods for deleting your topic threads???

I have no quarrels with you except that we don't agree on this topic...BUT ATTACKING ME? Hmmm..that's not quite right...

Rant and rave...you're sounding like a broken record now.

Personal attacks on me and POLICING what I said doesn't prove anything at all. You're wasting your time trying to irk me coz it doesn't bite.

KINDLY ADDRESS YOUR MAGNANIMOUS INTELLIGENCE towards QATARBEAR & ZENON coz THEY are able to give their side (as clear as it could be) regarding their stand on the TOPIC. QATARBEAR is your fellow MUSLIM so both of you can go head to head in this topic...since you said you don't want to waste your time with PEOPLE LIKE ME.

AREN'T YOU MORE INTELLIGENT/SMARTER THAN ME?

Let me start by saying salam alikom to you. Second, what have I done to you to start hailing at me like that ?? Could u ever communicate your point without using a negative tone ??

first of all, I didn't give myself a certificate as a mature ideal Muslim, so please don't put words in my mouth and stop accusing me for something I didn't say, especially when everyone here knows about it. 3aib 3alaik walla.

Secondly, I'm not sure whether you are Muslim or not, but in case you are, do you know why prophet Mohammed PBUH said "Wa ekhtelaf ommaty ra7ma" ?.."disagreement among my people is mercy".. Do you have any idea why he said that ?? I don't have to agree with your views my friend and i'm not asking you to agree with mine. Islam is asking us to question and not follow blindly. I had a question and I took it to Al Azhar, they didn't help me. What is it to you ? If you are so jealous about Islam, what is stopping you from getting in touch with Al Azhar and get us an answer or come up with an answer by reading more yourself or do Ijtihad in that subject. the door is opened my friend. take a step in. I did, so please don't hate me for trying to find an answer. Sorry if that bothered you!!

Thridly, Being mature in simple English is having the ability to communicate your point in a respectful manner so you can have a dialogue. When you curse people and tell them they are sinners and will be burn in hell as if you know the whole subject is just so arrogant and extremely immature. You don't need a degree in anything to be able to be polite my friend. And please don't mix freedom of speech with being rude. U have the right to show opposition but you have no right to be rude. big difference. Is this a brilliant thought for you or what ??? and please, when u attack people, expect the same in return, and eye for an eye. I have a dignity and i won't let anyone to step on it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to speak politely. Is this too much to ask for ?? have you guys lost your manners ?? It is frustrating when people claim immaturity and they are bashing and cursing and showing the worst manner and expect their views to be respected. I mean Mickey Mouse can understand the difference between mature and immature. COMMON SENSE MY FRIEND..COMMON SENSE. You want a dialogue with me, you are more than welcome and i would love to speak with you with arms wide open, just PLEASE have some respect to the person you are speaking with and draw your the line and know your limit. You are not my God and don't play one.

Sorry that God blessed me with good education. I'm proud of it and happy that i'm learning every day. And know my friend that God will ask me about my education and what I have done with it when i meet him. At least I have an answer. "Otlobo el 3elm walow fel seen (China)" (Seek education even in China) Prophet Mohammed said (PBUH)..well i didn't go to China, but I went to Egypt and the US.. to seek an answer. So I did my part and I would love to help those who need help with my findings. So please don't be mad at me because i'm doing something with my education.

This an open forum, sure it is.. express yourself. 3ala 3ainy o rasy. Just express it in a way that is polite and constructive. THAT'S FREEDOM OF SPEECH.. the minute you start cursing people is called RUDE not freedom of speech.

May God bless you.

PS: There is nothing wrong with trying to be a better Muslim. Failing too many times helps you stand up. and i'm trying to be a good Muslim.

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

FIRST TIME WHEN I AGREE WITH YOU.

YES, SHE IS DAMN BEAUTIFULL!!

IF YOU WANT PEACE...GIVE ME HER PHONE NUMBER! :p

______________________________

Lol, Heero...

"GL"?

Request more gravediggers? :)

Then we must ask QL to propose a profile that indicates "Gay" in the gender. LOL

"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

Gypsy said All pigs are not sick, and ...

All pigs are not sick, and God doesn't exist, so Mohammed or whoever was the author of the Quran or the Bible or whatever other bit of fiction you're talking about.

If God or Allah does not exist to you will burn in hell, according to holy books prostitute existed and is an old jobs for women until now.

she is beautiful, isn't she.

It says "26-35 MALE" in your profile.

And i can see a beautifull... WOMEN in your avatar.

Then, are you GAY?

_________________________________________

Light travels faster than sound.

This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

(Sorry for hijacking Azzi!)

-----------------------------------

>

___________________________________________

Fu**k Karl Marx, the father of Communism.

50 years is ENOUGH for my country!

.

If you don't know Marx's theories, you're really inequipped for discussing, among other things, 20th century history.

I will not bore you with a lengthy description of Marxism, most of you wouldn't read it anyway.

Just read another Marxism-sh!t:

1)Religion is hypocritical

2)Religion is an illusion that provides reasons and excuses to keep society functioning just as it is

3)Religion is like other social institutions

4)Religion is the heart of a heartless world

5)Religion is meant to create illusory fantasies for the poor

Well, you are soo bright that you didn't even notice that I was teasing you.

1)my nick name..just goo!!e it!

2)the flag an my avatar

_________________________________________

Light travels faster than sound.

This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

very nice, Doha Girl/Gypsy ...

if people refuse to believe your funny/stupid "homosexuality is normal" theory, then they are "hate-filled people"?

Since you prefer to burn in hell with sinners, criminals, homosexuals, incest supporters, then there is nothing else to talk about.

Hell is what you choose, and let's hope that God will grant you your wish.

btw, "homosexual love" is one of the reasons behind crime & other social diseases.

Damn! Why didn't they pay more Riyals to get a cleverer Canadian?

Apparently, this woman has nothing to do but notice other people doing. thinking she is a great person.

once again all this garbage comes up. If I hear all these reasons correctly and everyone should be able to do as he/she wants then cannabilism, polygamy, bestiality amd lets not forget S&M is ok also. I think whether we like it or not there has to be some restrictions on our behavior and unfortunately democracy seems to be the best way.

As far as everyone heading to Canada and the UK my guess would be because they have a socialist government and they can get in line with their hands out.

Participant South East Asia War Games

Second Place

Dracula, it says "Qatar" in your profile. I didn't know they had 50 years of communism.

when all you do in this thread is work as a traffic police? Who needs you to regulate the the traffic in this thread? Can't you post something useful? Just listen to yourself:

"we're supposed to be discussing about the LEGALITIES OF (SAME SEX) marriage...NOT GOD."

"please refrain from citing from the Koran/Bible or anything religious coz as I am a non-Muslim"

"try to support THEIR/YOUR VIEWS without quoting religious books (scriptures/Bible/Koran, et al)...it's turning to be a case of "HOLIER THAN THOU" discussion..."

"you're out of the topic...try ...it later..."

"wait later...don't you ...have to answer some posts in your other thread about the "Manners..." thing? Check that, please...We're having an ADULT discussion here and I do believe you're OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE in this one...."

"don't be so cheeky ...the best person to answer you would be QATARBEAR and/or ZENON….The flow of the discussion is getting better, and thexonic's comment about GOD and what have you's are distracting the flow...like what you're doing..."

"Please don´t equate the subject to SEX or FORNICATION"

On the other hand:

"I believe IN GOD ...in ALLAH, IN YAHWEH...and everything HE represents...But this is irregardless/irrelevant to the topic." (who cares what you believe in? Is that relevant? Why don’t you stick to the topic?)

"My baby sister is happily married with 2 kids and 110% FEMALE..." Who cares if she had 2 or 20 kids? Is this relevant? Is being 110% female will prevent her sister from being attracted to her? Why don’t you stick to the topic?)

"I'm a PRE-MED GRADUATE and a LICENSED MEDICAL TECHNOLOGIST..." (who cares about your profession? Is this relevant? Why don’t you stick to the topic?)

"we both know that you're OLDER than me" (Who cares who is older than who? Is this relevant? Why don't you stick to the topic?)

Why some are trying to show the abnormal and irregular as a normal thing. You have me worried now. Are straight people wong or abnormal?

In the first place. Was God wrong when he started the cration of human beings by Adam and Eve. DO you think he should have started it as Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve?

If sombody is having propblems with their hormones or was raped/molested or experienced for some reason the first sex experience with same gender. Which reflects on him/her later and tends to prefer same gender. Or those who were neglected by opposite gender or had bad experience with opposite gender and find shelter with same gender. Such people are trying to impose their irregularities on others.

God created us. Each organ and part ofus is for a certain function. Gayism is not only sex. But it should be associated with sex. When we talk about male gays, they have to explore the A-spot with the P-tool which is a very harmful practice and the damages are numerous. Did any research prove that anal sex is not dangerous?

Qatarbear. Giving yourself a certificate as a mature person and a believer and ideal Muslim does not add much to the point and does not give you the advantage to try to twist facts. When you talk about LUT people. Looks like as if you are hinting that IF they were believers and gays, then God would not curse them.

Besides. Having conditions and almost threatening everybody that they should be "mature" in their replies. It indicates as if yu are the person who is eligible to decide who is matre and who is not. Let aside that this is an open forum. Every person has the right to express himself the way he knows and understands. If you are highlt educated and well exposed, please be humble and listen to others.

===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409

===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409

Yes, let's just make a poll: Who is for it, and who is against it? Spare your reasoning.

Should GAY MARRIAGE BE Legalized?....

Please don´t equate the subject to SEX or FORNICATION...

I don't know what makes you believe that I should know about Kant. He was just another philosopher, just like Jean Paul Sartre. (Could not be more discrepancy between two "thinkers"). But I have to oppose Dracula. Norms are really meant to guarantee the survival of a society, because, as you know, there are societies without clergy, but they do have norms. I agree, that the neccessity of norms has been grabbed by clergy and alike and misused as to secure their own power. But that would lead us to a new, and very dangerous threat: is religion of any use for the people or just for the "ruling" class?

(Karl Marx (another German Philosopher): "Religion is the opium for the people."

In the view of 18th-century German philosopher Immanuel Kant (1724 - 1804), all individuals possess a "rational free will" and are capable of recognizing the three pillars of morality -- God, freedom, and immorality -- and acting accordingly with them. Kant recognizes that every intended deed is purposeful and selected by its commissioner.

According to Kant, no set of circumstances, no matter how great their severity, can force a person to abandon the three moral virtues unless the individual himself selects to do so.

And this selection(n.a.-gay), then, permits for punishment to be distributed to an individual based on the action undertaken. Thus, every deed committed with the intention of being so done implies a moral accountability within the human responsible.

This model of thought is of immense help to understanding what actions Kant saw as necessary for the creation of justice within the real world, since, once again, every individual's worldview is based upon that individual's own set of experiences. Thus, any judgment by one individual of another's set of "data" will be subjective and skewed, which perverts any prospect for objective justice. That is, unless an objective framework such as one of "God, freedom, immorality" is used to evaluate a deed and not the person responsible, while properly rewarding or punishing the latter.

A Kantian justice system would thus solely focus on what was done, rather than on the character of the person whodid it. No excuses regarding a criminal's genome, upbringing, history of mental-sexual illness, or socioeconomic status can exonerate him from receiving punishment for the criminal act. The fact that a man was sexual abused during his childhood does not justify his infliction of similar abuse on others later. in life.

well i believe that what the actual nature of a human is demanding..taking this basic rule...and what is the +ve way to do so.

Well sex of any kind is fornication.

What is meant by the word “fornication”?

It comes from the Greek word por‧nei′a, which is sometimes used to apply to sexual relations between unmarried people. Elsewhere, such as at Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9, the term is broader in meaning and refers additionally to adultery, incest, and bestiality.

Other sexual practices between individuals not married to each other, such as oral and anal sex and the sexual manipulation of another person’s genitalia, can also be designated as por‧nei′a.

All such practices are condemned—either explicitly or by implication—in God’s Word.

The NT is explicitly against it.

That's in Romans 1:24-32.

The Hebrew Bible is not that explicit, but I believe it is understood from the fact that the purpose of sex is primarily for procreation.

Obviously, a man or an woman cannot be fecundated through the anus. :))

Ok, when I argue against homosexuality and anal sex I'm also arguing against heterosexual people who perform this.

After all for gay people or straight people the damage is the same.

More evidence...from:

http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/fcanal.htm From On the margins : "In many of the developing countries, the age of the participants in anal sex can determine what sex role they take, with younger men or boys usually taking the receptive role. Such role taking is often in the context of juvenile male prostitution, but it can also reflect strong cultural traditions of inter-generational sex between adult men and younger men and boys. In Madras, for example: 'Older boys, younger men and adult men have a liking for younger boys often because of their androgynous appearance. For them these boys are socially approachable and many indulge in sex with them. Often there are relationships of patronage between younger and older boys and men in the role of inserters. Not all juvenile anal sex is intergenerational. Boys and adolescents have sex with their peers, often in the context of sexual experimentation, and sometimes because of the sexual unavailability of girls and young women. Among the estimated 100 million streetchildren, 'comfort sex' between boys is common." ..." In many countries, especially among indigenous or 'first' peoples, and in many societies in the Pacific, anal sex between men and boys and between boys, has a sacred or ritualistic 'rites of passage' dimension."

(A SECOND LOOK AT ANAL SEX AND "AIDS"

Poisonous Semen and AIDS

By Fred Cline)

Who is in Qatar ?? do you guys know each other personally or have you known each other for a long time ?? Have you guys met before ? want to ??..

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

A simple answer from me here:

No

Math 4 All

Thank you so much for sharing such a post. I have read a lot about Sigmund Freud and I'm familiar with his position about homosexuality and his work. He is a piece of work indeed.I remember the debates in the classroom about his work and the different points of view we had yet we all managed to communicate in a civil manner.

The sad part, Winn, is that regardless of how much information and feedback that you want to share, some people chose to be blind. They know they can change, but they can't think. They'd rather be and stay ignorant because that's what they are used to live in. They don't wanna change, and even if they do, they want it to be offered to them on a golden tray. God forbid if they have to star the process themselves. And when you try to motivate their thinking by throwing a piece of information to chew on and start thinking, they quickly reject it because it is not compatible with their short line of thought and it requires creativity in thinking which they are not trained to do. So regardless of how much you talk, you will never get through and the only thing you will get from them is the complete Webster Dictionary of insults And Britannica Encyclopedia of stupid thoughts and conclusions. So.. save your breath my friend because they are not worth debating with.

Thanks again for your post and hopefully we will get more like that from future participants.

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

I beg to differ, Magic Dragon. Norms are patterns of behavior invented to serve the purposes of power crazy clergy and their ruling counterparts . They were not meant for the betterment of society as we all have been, time n again, fooled into believing.

But I do agree with you on changing outdated norms!!

Just wanted to add a point abt the 'sick and stupid' misconceptions that put paedophilia and homosexuality in teh same boat!

Child sex offenders use cognitive distortions to justify their behaviours. This, according to some others can also be seen in the beliefs of pedophiles who have not necessarily offended. The Encyclopedia of Psychology states that these defense mechanisms reflect one of the most salient features of the condition, with cognitive distortions being a hallmark feature of the pedophilia.

None of the symptoms like cognitive distortion, or a dysfunction at the cognitive stage of sexual arousal processing, which are found in paedophiles , have ever been reported in normal homosexual/heterosexual people.

Pedophilic men have lower IQs, poorer scores on memory tests, greater rates of school grade failure over and above the IQ differences, greater probability of having suffered childhood head injuries resulting in conconsciousness, and several differences in MRI-detected brain structures. Another study, using structural MRI, shows that pedophilic men have a lower volume of white matter than non-sexual criminals.

None of these are found in normal homosexual/heterosexual people.

OOps...I did it again....err...i mean deviated from the main point of legalising...guess i run before I get run over...LOL!

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

Yes, Winn, who is qualified at all to say what is normal and what is abnormal? Unless you have the guidance of your religion you will not have a clue. But "norms" are patterns of behavior invented to guarantee the survival of a society. Anybody not following the norms was considered being "abnormal" and endangering the survival of the society. This point of view made perfect sense in ancient times when the power of a society relied on the number of people. Nowadays the number of people is not crucial anymore to determine a society's power (weapons, money, science, are more important indicators). That's why norms become outdated and must be changed as the times are changing.

Rumple, dmigty...:Hav been seeing arguments abt homosexuals being 'sick ' and 'abnormal' people all along. No offense intended, but do tell me how qualified you are to judge whether a person is normal or not.

Hope you hav heard abt this guy called Sigmund Freud...yeah he was considered something of an expert in psychology, u know...

1935, Freud wrote:

"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime, and cruelty too.... "

Why early studies in psychology treated homosexuality as abnormal:

Although psychoanalytic theories of homosexuality once had considerable influence in psychiatry and in the larger culture, they were not subjected to rigorous empirical testing. Instead, they were based on analysts' clinical observations of patients already known by them to be homosexual.

This procedure compromised the validity of the (said)psychoanalytic conclusions in at least two important ways. First, the analyst's theoretical orientations, expectations, and personal attitudes are likely to bias her or his observations. To avoid such bias, scientists (now a days)take great pains in their studies to ensure that the researchers who actually collect the data do not have expectations about how a particular research participant will respond. An example is the "double blind" procedure used in many experiments. Such procedures were not used in clinical psychoanalytic studies of homosexuality.

A second problem with psychoanalytic studies is that they have only examined homosexuals who were already under psychiatric care – in other words, homosexuals who were seeking treatment or therapy. Patients, however, cannot be assumed to be representative of the general population. Just as it would be inappropriate to draw conclusions about all heterosexuals based only on data from heterosexual psychiatric patients, we cannot generalize from observations of homosexual patients to the entire population of gay men and lesbians.

Later studies:

In a review of published studies comparing homosexual and heterosexual samples on psychological tests, Gonsiorek (1982) found that, although some differences have been observed in test results between homosexuals and heterosexuals, both groups consistently score within the normal range. Gonsiorek concluded that "Homosexuality in and of itself is unrelated to psychological disturbance or maladjustment. Homosexuals as a group are not more psychologically disturbed on account of their homosexuality" (Gonsiorek, 1982, p. 74; see also reviews by Gonsiorek, 1991; Hart, Roback, Tittler, Weitz, Walston & McKee, 1978; Riess, 1980).

Confronted with overwhelming empirical evidence and changing cultural views of homosexuality, psychiatrists and psychologists radically altered their views, beginning in the 1970s.

In 1973, the weight of empirical data, coupled with changing social norms and the development of a politically active gay community in the United States, led the Board of Directors of the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).

Sorry Azi- I know the discussion is abt legalising Gay civil union/marriage n not abt their normalcy. Jus wanted to get some basic facts straight for those who consider themselves the final authorities in deciding who is normal n who is not!!

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

Good Morning, azilana. Nice to be welcomed personally. No, you are not a "lesser" person for what you do and what you think. Unfortunately there are many "fundamentalists" on QL. They haven't understood any of the great books. Let alone religion and these things: Buddha said to one guy who asked him for the right way: "You have to find your own, I only know what is good for me." And, I think, it was the German philosopher Immanuel Kant who said: "your freedom ends where the freedom of the other begins".

Same thing here...

I have 2 best friends (one in the Philippines and one in Qatar) who is GAY...but would that make me a lesser person because I am with them? I don't think so.

I never said this. But I would let others live their lives as they want. If they'd try to come closer to my circle they would have to do it my way, though.

the best person to answer you would be QATARBEAR and/or ZENON as they give the most intelligent and logical response here...but i'm not saying your posts are not. You know what I meant ;-)

The flow of the discussion is getting better, and thexonic's comment about GOD and what have you's are distracting the flow...like what you're doing...

I agree with you. LIke i said, it shouldn't be under the umbrella of marriage since we are capable of coming up with a different contract all together. For example, In Canada, gay union is not under the umbrella of MARRIAGE. There are two contracts in Canada:

Marriage = between hetro

Civil Union = between gay people

BOTH "certificates" are equal in rights in Canada.. that's why people don't fight about it.. but they are not equal in the US. And the US government is not willing to modify the civil union and upgrade it and insists on providing those privileges under the marriage certificates only. Where does this leave gay people ?? fighting for that certificate. Had the government agree on modifying the civil union and give us, American citizens, the rights that the constitution is giving us, we wouldn't be fighting for a marriage certificate. Our fight in the US is faaaaaaaaaar from religion and God's blessing. That is irrelevant to our interest. U want us to stop fighting for a marriage certificate, then fight with us to convince the government to upgrade the civil union and we will stop fighting.

It goes back to the same thing. Don't show sympathy or acceptance and not do anything about it. if you believe in my rights, then help me. If not, then there is no need for name calling..you take your path and i will take mine and call it a night. At least i'm providing a solution.. how's that my friend ? :) have a good one for now :)

salam

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

a thread before as hotly discussed as this?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

good morning to all, no reaction on my latest posts?

you want adult, matured discussion? I luv it!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

have to answer some posts in your other thread about the "Manners..." thing? Check that, please...

We're having an ADULT discussion here and I do believe you're OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE in this one....

Azzi, actually I will relate the whole thing to the topic. After she replies.

fear karma, it bites u in the butt.

the legal rights that a gay is fighting for are also the legal rights that mistresses and unwed mothers are fighting for. Like what you said, the privileges of a gay couple is related to privileges of the straight couples.

In our country, the family code already solved one, the rights of illegitimate child wheher a product of extra-marital affair or out of wedlock. Don't you think that these mistresses also can reason out the same reasoning you are expounding?

To put it bluntly, isn't it the privileges being run after by your group is for the "services rendered during union years, not necessarily limited to sex but serving coffee maybe, cooking foods etc, etc., and of course the wear and tear part (lost years of being young and beautiful?

Can these rights be not put into a contract without marriage in the case of "gay marriage"

We all know that in the US and IK, even mistresses can get a portionof the wealth of a deceased partner as long as they can prove to court that they slept with each other or had an affair?

I'm still firmed in my anti-gay marriage, not anti-gay recognition. All these legal rights being raised by you can be put in a diffrent contract that is not to be considered "marriage". Get my point??????

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

it later...i'll tell you when Gypsy's on line...

And I was expecting that you will be making an INTELLIGENT RESPONSE to either ZENON or QATARBEAR.

But no...you just went down and attack me with your ridiculous tirade.

Come on, RUMPEL...ZENON and QATARBEAR are waiting for your RESPONSE....

Gypsy ok, so who created the universe?

fear karma, it bites u in the butt.

Magicdragon hmmm... so r u saying that u dont have a problem sexual relationship with a guy?

fear karma, it bites u in the butt.

They have every right to become as miserable as other married couple!!!

I have left my online crayons at home today. Sorry to disapoint. You'll have to go bash some other nationality (yes I'm Australian) or minority group - maybe next time?

OK...let's what we have here:

1. A stupid guy (gay):

"didn't you say that it is not worth reading my posts ?"

No I didn't, stupid! I said "post"..and that was after your 1st looooong post.

"u r not expecting me to reply to you, are you ??"

But you ARE replying, stupid!

And to prove how stupid & twisted your brains is, here is a formula: "Gay + Bond + Religion = Gay Marriage"

(the is no "+" between Gay & Religion, stupid! Because religion is everything that is good while gay is worse than prostitution!)

And try to be a brave, decent human (not a gay) when you give answers. I did not ask for "Lakom deenokom wa leya deen", I clearly asked you about what the Quran says about gays!

2.A hater

"Rumpelstiltskin your not only childish but you are malicious too."

Why do you prefer attacking people & calling them names when you can not support your case with words. Let's see where you come from...aah..australia...what a coincidence...WEST! This explains the western ill-hater in you! I rest my case!

3.A pro-gay/pro-prostitution/pro-incest/pro-pedophiles old woman:

"QatarBear...don't waste your time ...

explaining to self-righteous, bigoted people"

As I said, when you are pro-gay there will be nothing to stop you against any filth deed! (this is why you only post about extreme sexual issues)

Bottom line is, if I was gay I will NEVER ask for gay rights! At least I will look at myself as a sick man, try to be decent, try to hide my shame, lead a decent life, and promise myself that if I ever followed my (gay) sexual insticts and started having sexual relations, then I'd better end up in hell. (this does not mean that other people who act to be religious but they commit the dirtiest deeds every day, will not/might not end up in hell, too)

Well done!!.. Bravo!!

I think the issue will be easier to understand once people take the image of gay sex out of their heads and think about gay people as PEOPLE.

The other example i want to bring up is how selective people get when they chose what sin they are ok with and which they are not. for example, here are two major sins:

1- Disbelief in God or associating another entity with God (The worst sin in Islam)

2- Homosexuality. A major sin but not the worst.

Now here is the amazing part. Some people are willing to hang out with someone who is a non-believer, have coffee, visit each other, laugh with each other and be social with him or her, but they would never ever dare to look at a gay person.

So my questions is: why is it ok to hang out with non-believers (if you believe that not believing in God is a major sin) and it is disgusting and a social disease and pedophile and rapers bla bla bla when it comes to gay people ??

Why are you favoring one sin over another ?? I don't care either way..it is hypocritical in my point of view. But whom are you fooling ?? not me for sure!!!

Salam Alikom

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

I was not going to weigh into this debate any further but I want to repond to the following:

"ghahat said I have to comment on ...

I have to comment on Qatarbear last resposne since it is very typical of the pro-gay crowd

1) that last post was a 10000 word name calling essay.

It had no point in it, NOT ONE. all you did was try to insult the other person as immature, unknowleageable etc"

No is wasn't really that - and it was barely 982 words lol. QB is just trying to make a rather simple point that you may disagree with homosexual activity but he is not arguing with you over that. What he is saying recognise the reality that same sex couples already exist and some legal rights should be extended to them - no marriage but some sort of legal recognition so as to protect them, not legitimise their sexual behavour - QB if I have this wrong please correct me.

That being said there has been a lot of abuse on this thread directed at QB and others - very immature behavour indeed from those that should really know better...

"2) just because you write in "mature, knowlegeable, grown up tone" doesnt mean you are making an intelligent point (or any point at all)" - True, but QB is making a point - read his post. He certainly writes in more clear, concise and lodgical manner then some on this thread who should really go back and resit English 101.

"3) the worst part is like i said in my first post. The pro-homos act like they are victims of namecalling while at the same time doing nothing but namecalling the other person" Well the natural thing to do when attacked and insulted is to hit back - although in QB's case I think his attack so to be speak has been very measured and thoughful - considering he has been compared with child molesters and persons who practice beastiality!

"4) just because a pedophile is worse than homo, doesnt mean you have justified homo" Well if you consider homosexuality in itself inherantly evil - yes you are correct. However I think you will find the "sin" amongst the Abrahmaic religions is not being homosexual so much as the "homosexual act". Anyway the point that was made in realtion to pedophiles was that gays where cast in the same light as them and that in itself is not fair. Agree?

dmigtysolomon: My position is that civil unions or some other protection under the law need to be considered for same sex couples. This is simply a matter of providing some level of protection to a group within our community who have always exisited. I

n my view this is not an issue of legitimising certain behavour - more so it is an issue of protecting individuals and their property rights. For example under non-islamic common law rules of probate (property division upon death) property is to be divided in cerain ways if no will is left. The property will pass to certain blood relatives. You might say well the man should have left a will - well what if he dies young but has been in a long standing relationship for 2 decades? Should the partners 'rights' be ignored? Should the partner be kicked out of house and home because the dead partner's mother now has a property right over half the property that he helped to pay for and maintain? How is this right?

So in short im talking about civil rights for individuals to prevent injustices - not full blown marriage or legalising same sex - although this happens and will continue to happen.

I said earlier:

"I'm not here to legislate gay sex but rather to try to get the image of two men screwing each other every time i say the word GAY."

what i meant is to GET RID OF the image of two men having sex every time i say the word gay.

Sorry for my typo..and confusion.

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

first of all..i'm not "PRO GAY"..i'm GAY to the bones!! ok?

"1) that last post was a 10000 word name calling essay.

It had no point in it, NOT ONE. all you did was try to insult the other person as immature, knowledgeable etc"

I'm sorry, if you have no knowledge about the subject then go pick up a book and share a point that makes sense. I'm sorry you didn't get my points or if you claim that i make no point then wait till you see other people's response. May be they are capable of understanding my points.

"2) just because you write in "mature, knowlegeable, grown up tone" doesnt mean you are making an intelligent point (or any point at all"

At least you recognize my tone to be mature and intelligent, that's all i want to hear. I take that as a compliment. THANK YOU.

"3) the worst part is like i said in my first post. The pro-homos act like they are victims of namecalling while at the same time doing nothing but namecalling the other person"

Again, you pointed out a problem. good for you, now come up with a solution or offer an alternative. You are Arab, right ?? and you have two Arab brothers fighting and name calling. What are you gonna do about it ?? Seriously, enough pointing fingers and start doing something about it for God sake.

"4) just because a pedophile is worse than homo, doesnt mean you have justified homo"

I'm not sure where do you read that i was justifying HOMO. Please copy and paste the part where i was justifying homo based on a comparison between that and pedophile and i ask the people here if they got the same interpretations you got. May be you are wrong ??? or misunderstood me ?? or readings something i didn't right ?? go for it..open challenge. I know what i wrote.

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Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

I always think that those that bang on about gays are protesting far too much, normal people just live and let live but I feel some just go on too much...have you feelings you are denying??

I will be more than happy to exchange my views with you my friend. I like they way you approach the subject and your willingness to listen to the other party. And Thank you for that, more people like you are needed to have a good life and co-exist.

Homosexual sex and premarital sex is forbidden and I'm not gonna debate that. I agree with you on that point. I'm not here to legislate gay sex but rather to try to get the image of two men screwing each other every time i say the word GAY.

People will continue doing what they are doing behind closed doors whether gay or straight, legitimate or not, right ?? sa7 walla la2 ? One thing you should know, my friend, is not not all gay people have the same understanding about the word gay as well. I have met many gay people and we all have different opinions, why ? because we are all different human being. The difference between you and I is what happens behind closed doors. THAT IS IT..NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. So when two men want to get married, try to think beyond the sexual part or the religious part.. why do they want to get married ??

Here is why:

I'm a US citizen, Arab originally, but i can't sponsor a man from overseas if i fall in love with him, while my straight counterpart can issue a fiance visa, get to the US and start the immigration process. As a gay person, I don't have the right for tax relief because i can't file jointly to get that benefit, but if you are straight and have a girlfriend, u can file as domestic partner and get the tax benefits. Also you can add inheritance. If I have a partner that i lived with for, let's say 25 years and he dies, i have no right to inherit whatever we collected TOGETHER. EVERYTHING goes to the state and leaves you strip naked. With a domestic partnership for straight couple, you can include your girlfriend on your health insurance policy even is she is not working. But if you have a boyfriend and he happens that he is dying in front of you, there is nothing you can do about it. My life would be A LOT EASIER if I obtain one certificate, it is called marriage certificate. Why, because I will get all those rights with that piece of paper. It has nothing to do with God and religion. It is purely political. When i think about this certificate, i think human rights, i think immigration, job security, anti-discrimination law, I don;t think religion and GOD AT ALL. And all you hear from the straight folks is GOD GOD GOD GOD.. you are not even listening to me to understand why i want this certificate. Now i explained it, does it make sense to you.

In other words, I really don't care about the name of that certificate, you can call it a two-fagot certificate. FINE!!..JUST GIVE ME MY RIGHTS. So unfortunately, the only certificate that will give you that right is called "Marriage" certificate. The civil union is not accepted in many states. As a matter of fact, only three states in the US that accepts it, Hawaii, Vermont and Connecticut. And they are useless, you know why ? because it gives you half of the benefits the marriage license would give you. Civil union doesn't give you immigration rights or health benefits. It only give you tax benefits..so it is not the same level, that's why gay people want the marriage certificate. Not because they wanna get married, marriage is not gonna change anything in the gay life from a religious point of view..it is still Haram.

Solution: Either to extend the marriage certificate to gay people, regardless of what religion says about it since the US constitution is not based on religion, OR upgrade the civil union and extend it to enjoy all the benefits the marriage certificate will give you.

Hope this helps. Thanks for listening again

=======================================

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

I have to comment on Qatarbear last resposne since it is very typical of the pro-gay crowd

1) that last post was a 10000 word name calling essay.

It had no point in it, NOT ONE. all you did was try to insult the other person as immature, unknowleageable etc

2) just because you write in "mature, knowlegeable, grown up tone" doesnt mean you are making an intelligent point (or any point at all)

3) the worst part is like i said in my first post. The pro-homos act like they are victims of namecalling while at the same time doing nothing but namecalling the other person

4) just because a pedophile is worse than homo, doesnt mean you have justified homo

Good morning to you sun shine. I hope you have a great day a head of you.

Believe me, they never get under my skin. It is not worth it at all. But I like to respond hopefully someone else will read it and benefit from it.

It baffles me when people come up with such idiotic conclusion just because they want it to be concluded that way. I mean..wow.. Stupidity at its best. If it shows anything, it's diffidently how oblivious they are when it comes to homosexuality. Do you know why ?? it is fear..

They are afraid that if they get to know any gay person on a personal level that they will find out that they are real people and not as sexually addicted as they think we are. Or we don't support child molestation or pedophiles just because we are gay. I mean you gotta be ROYALLY perverted and disturbed to commit such crimes. Even the pedophiles or child molesters, honestly, many of the cases that i hear about are straight old men who are chasing 12yo girls. Or a school teacher who forces her 13yo boy student into a sexual intercourse. Where is gay in those incidents..if anything it is heterosexual from A to Z. But what happens when u get to know that some gay people are actually very good people ?? All your negative thoughts about them will collapse and burn. You know what that means ?? a profound change in their belief system. It will SHAKE them and make them feel that whatever they were raised to believe is wrong. Consequently, the domino s effect starts..what else do i believe in is wrong ?? .. what a mind job that would be. So it is much much easier to continue your ignorance and continue hate rather than going through the process of change. Why do you think there is so much respect to be given for those who are willing to change and admit their mistakes, because they are willing to go through that mind job with clear intention to kick Satan out of their souls.

That's why when those people start talking, they often lack evidence, nothing more than personal opinions based on limited knowledge about the subject, waste more time on hating and bashing because they are empty from inside and have nothing better to do in their lives but bashing you and tell you that you are going to hell. Now, why would i let someone like that bother me when i spent years to educate myself in various countries to expand my horizon and learn people and appreciate the difference. Notice the difference between my speech and their speech.. I often try to educate and share my findings. They share nothing but insults and hate. See how empty they are ?? Thank God for giving me the chance to educate myself and may God help me use my education to share with my brothers and sisters, gay or straight, black or white.

Salam Alikom

---------------------------------------

Un-Learn what you know and Re-Learn it.

Bottom Line: IT IS BIOLOGICALLY WRONG

The male sexual parts are counterparts to the females sexual parts. NOT THE MANS ASSHOLE.

and if you say the arguement that a womans bum is the same as a mans bum then go screw a camels bum while you are claiming different species are ok as long as the body part is the same.

All the gay supporters try to act mature and that religion is unreasonable when they in fact are the ones who are bashing the people who follow religion.

They also argue that "its natural! animals do it". If you are the same as an animal then go live in a tree and eat bananas. HUMANS ARE NOT ANIMALS AND FOLLOW DIFFERENT MORALS.

as long as you hide this sickness and keep it private its fine by me, but dont get so arrogant that you can think that you will make my kids grow up in society where homo is viewed as normal.

Us citizens of a society who are biologically correct have a right to raise our children and shield them from legalised homo or bestiality (after all, why not if they are both old enough to declare their "love")

was the male organ design for female organ? Legalizing gay marriage means legalizing gay sex (nobody will tell mme, they want to get married and shake hands the whole life).

Let's elevate the discussion to matured discussion, there's nothing filthy about this, afterall we're talking about gay marriage. Please start QB, Azi, Gypsy, Dracula etc., etc. Want your views!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

are we level to level. Is the sexual orientation you're talking the same sexual orientation I was talking. You have somewhat hit the point when you say that sexual orientations of majority of gays (we include lesbians) is to have sex with the same gender, and this behavior is same as pre-marital sex or extra-marital affairs for the straight one.

That is what we condone, the sexual relationship whetehr it's homosexuals sex or pre-marital or extra-marital sex.

Azi's thread is legalizing gay marriage meaning legalizing same gender sex or parallel to it, legalizing pre-marital or extra-marital sex. If it's done in private, why the need to legalize it. If it's legal rights, in my native country, illegitimate children have the same full right of a legitimate children, does it means that we need to legalize pre-marital and extra-marital affair? But still the "shame" attached to being an illegitimate child is still there.

What we are saying is, confine the affair privately and legalizing it is not a solution.

Azi, this is what you want, right, NO RELIGIOUS aspect but pure legal. But QB, continue to site Quran, where's the balance?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

explaining to self-righteous, bigoted people who already concluded AND closed their minds about HOMOSEXUALITY.

Imagine me being a LESBO? allegedly supports incest and phedopiles....because I'm PRO-GAY....roflmao

:-D

"All these biologist, Darwinist, chemistry experts, microbiologist and Anthropologist have supported the gay movement for years with this unreasonable and conceptual studies."

U know why they support us?? because they don't look at us from a sexual point of view, they don't care what we do behind closed doors, they look at us as HUMAN BEINGS. You don't need "unreasonable or conceptual" studies to find out that I'm a human being. Whether I'm American, Arab, Black, White, heterosexual, homo, bi, male, female, Asian or Afro American, I'm a human being that have rights on this earth. Especially when my religion gives me all those rights. Especially when my Qur'an says "O humankind We [God] have created you male and female, and made you into communities and tribes, so that you may know one another. Surely the noblest amongst you in the sight of God is the most God fearing of you. God is All-knowing and All-Aware" (Quran 49:13) Please note that the Qur'an said the noblest amongst you in the sight of God is the most God fearing of you, not heterosexuals, not Arabs, not homos, not blacks.. So please don't make it sound like you are "closer" to God or you are more OK with God because of your sexual orientation.

When I came out to my family, which is religious, I was surprised by a bone crushing hug from everyone and i was crying my eyes out because i thought they would disown me, but you know what the response was ?? "You are a human being, you are a family member, What God gave you is for you to learn and discipline and we are behind you supporting you in your mission" That's a family that looks beyond what gay people do behind closed doors and realise what is more important in this society. That i'm a brother, a son, a person who contributes in his community, an athlete. The same goes to you, whether you have premarital sex or not, whatever you do behind closed doors, whatever woman you chose to be with, whatever creature you chose to be with, it is none of my business. You are still a human being in front of me. Your sexual orientation is not any different from your nationality or your passport. You can disbelieve in God for all I care, you are still a human being and I owe you respect for your being and i have to grant your rights because that\s what a civilized human being does.

Other than the sexual contact between two men or two women, what else do we do wrong ?? do we eat incorrectly, walk incorrectly, work incorrectly.. take the sex thing out..what is it in our "behavior" that bothers you and makes us a social disease ?? We are not living to screw each other..excuse my language..i'm capable of enjoying the beach, cooking, shopping, traveling.. i don't follow the first @$$ that i see in the street. I mean cummon..i think with the RIGHT HEAD!! (No pon intended)

"Just because you choose to be homosexual or Lesbian, No one has taken away your civil rights or strip you from them."

Richard Green, a psychiatrist from UCLA has compared effeminate with "masculine" boys. 5 Children who grow up to become homosexuals often engage in "gender inappropriate play" in early childhood. 6 "'Feminine' boys played about four times as much with the doll...a third as much with the truck." By interviewing their child subjects later in life when they were in their teens and early twenties, the researchers found that 75% of the effeminate boys had become gay adult males. It is obvious that these boys were not taught this behavior. They did not copy their behavior from other children in the family; they were often under harsh and severe pressure from their parents to change. One reasonable conclusion is that that they are driven to this type of behavior by an innate trait which is outside of their control and consciousness.

So in order for you to just feel like saying it is a choice, i think you need to read more about the psychology of decision making. When a person makes a decision, it requires conscious to be able to tell the difference between what you are choosing from. Often time is a vital factor in your decision making process. So how old were you when you decided to be straight ?? what did you know back then about the difference between gay and straight outside of the sexual context to take such decision?? knowing that sexual orientation is often determined in your early childhood. U must have been a superman for knowing the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality at an early age to make a conscious decision. I mean if sexual orientation is a choice, then you'd better be able to answer those questions. Awaiting your reply on those ones.

Let me share my personal experience about this CHOICE you are talking about. I was married for 2 years because I felt that I owe it to myself to try to "change that choice", but it never worked. Why ?? because i realized that i have to live with what i have. A person who choses a life that is against his own religion or belief AND his social surroundings is called STUPID not GAY. And please note that my ex-wife whom i admire for her courage for standing by me, knew about me being gay BEFORE we got married and she wanted to help. It just didn't work. I needed to know what was causing it to change it. I can't just split my mind open and start looking.. be logical please and don't through opinions. Quote some research studies, quote some facts to support your argument.

I hope this helps you understand our side better, God bless!!

NOW THIS IS SOMETHING NEW...AZILANA7037 IS (ALLEGEDLY)LESBO...

Baby sister you say? My baby sister is happily married with 2 kids and 110% FEMALE...

AND SO AM I, RUMPEL...A WOMAN who's very CERTAIN of her SEXUALITY = 100% WOMAN....ROFLMAO

PATHETIC CREATURE, aren't you?

And I thought you're far too intelligent/SMART to think of such...much less LISTEN TO HEARSAY and pass GOSSIP ABOUT A WOMAN...isn't it TAUGHT IN your RELIGION that it's not RIGHT to DO SUCH?? :-P

Couldn't you think something else?

You brought tears to my eyes. very nicely said. Thanks for your understanding and listening. If we have two or three more people like you, life would be worth living. Thanks again.

"i don't respond to haters and confused people who don't know the difference between gay and child molesters.. i dunno how you link the two or incests or whatever perversion in your head" I sencond that motion.

Rumpelstiltskin your not only childish but you are malicious too. You are incapable of a grown up reasoned conversation minus the silly name calling a three year old should be ashamed of. Reading through the posts it seems you have called me a lier "not worthy of respect" lol on a number of occasions and Azi a lesbian, while all along equating all homosexuals with child molesters. Go and get your head checked by one of those doctors people have being refering too.

Clearly you're in need of some further education to open up your myopic world view. 'M-Y-O-P-I-C" - Look that one up. Do not post anything directed to me as I will not respond (as I have left my online crayons at home).

Back to sensible discussion. I agree with QB's position. Civil unions is most likley the way to go. Marriage as an institution has been for time immemorial reserved for the creation and maintence of family. Extending this to same sex relationships - I am yet to be convinced. However, long standing homosexual relationships are a fact in Arabic and every other society around the globe. Acknowleding this fact and considering what can be done to assist these fellow humans is necessary regardless of individuals personal moral view of this behavour.

What I must say - as I think this may be my final contribution on this thread - is that I find the lack of compassion from self professed Believers very disapointing if not disturbing to say the least. I found QB's posts heart felt and genuine - a man struggling with himself and his sexuality on the one hand and religous conviction on the other. Doesn't this deserve some empathy? But what does he get for sharing with you this most intimate challange? He gets compared with a child molester! My God shame on you all - I am sure you have all never struggled with your 'weaknesses' - that's right you are all justified and holy and ready to go to heaven this instant. Well I for one will not judge lest I be judged.

I would rather try and understand people like QB and help where I could then act like a heartless, mindless, bigot homophobe. If you believe in God then at least pretend to have compassion. Remember the mercy and compassion you show others will be meeted out to you in equal messure.

Very well said. In my recent trip to paris, i went to a special screening of " jihad for love". it shows the struggle of being Muslim & gay. There are 1000's of arab/muslim intellectuals who are gay.Unfortunately, it will take decades for the main stream to realize that. The Arab media have always demonized homosexuals, linked them with prostitutes & pictured them as transvestites.It's a pity, knowing that gay people are part of this media (directors, writers, actors (maybe),etc).I think the change must come from within, by coming out. However, i don't see this happening in our life time.

"...You might have seen a housefly, maybe even a superfly, but I bet you ain’t never seen a donkey fly. Ha, Ha, Ha..." Donkey

In my Opinion, Is about the choices you make. We all know, that we live in a 'straight' and 'religious society' which the laws are model in the doctrines of the bible or Koran.

Meaning, that for centuries they have served a purpose in the survival of a nation, that includes the nations who served the faith of Islam.

Why change the current status and legality of marriage?

Just because you choose to be homosexual or Lesbian, No one has taken away your civil rights or strip you from them.

You just open yourself for criticisms from the dominant society. Your Sexual orientation is your decision, just deal with the repercussions and opinions.

That you choose to be a minority, is your choice not ours. The question of acceptance of marriage of the same sex, is on play to many viewers.

Only, in a modern day society, they will determine how far to continue and to accept that behavior and sexual orientation.

Just because, Two states, approved the marriage of the same sex in the civil law, does not constitute your right in other states.

Don't cross the line of pervasiveness and being blasphemous about the church and same sex marriage.

As for the civil law; Yes! You have the right to the same sex marriage, only in those two states and not in other states. You still Illegally married, when you cross the state borders.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

Why?

Is unnatural, pervasive and sodomite. It goes against all the values of marriage, between man and woman.

All these biologist, Darwinist, chemistry experts, microbiologist and Anthropologist have supported the gay movement for years with this unreasonable and conceptual studies.

Gay people are always Looking for ways to justify their behavior and conduct. Always asking for special Constitutional Civil rights in the governments, acting like they are a special minority group that needs to legalized their behavior.

Including the vast amount of GAY professionals, that are abundant in the thousands, in todays world market are fighting to adjourning many of the current laws.

and know the new intrusion and invasion of the gay activities in the church.

I don't care, How you paint or draw your self as a "GOOD GAY", but too me, If you are GAY you ain't right.

The gay marriage eventually, It will destroy the basic fiber of a society which is marriage between man and a woman, The family.

It will lead us, them, world nations and civilizations to a end.

The Gay marriage and their own movement, is A total defiance to the teachings of God and current laws that govern our civilization and society.

Yet, is your very choice and decision, but don't disrespect the church or any religious believes in justifying your sexual preference.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

Rumpelstiltskin

Don't bother with the intellectuals, who support "Marriage of the same sex." Just because, The supreme court of California voted in favor, It does not constitute the voice of other 48 states and other commonwealth territories.

Maybe we need to start our own "Holy Crusades,"?

It won't be proper at all.

Why?

"Our battle is not against human forces but against the principalities and powers, the rulers of this world of darkness, the evil spirits in regions above." —Ephesians 6:12

"The whole of man's history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so our Lord tells us, from the very dawn of history until the last day." —Catechism of the Catholic Church, 409

Just pray for their salvation and redemption spiritually.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

1. PLEASE don't call me "ATE" (meaning ELDER/OLDER SISTER in Filipino)because we both know that you're OLDER than me :-/

2. The topic is an "OPEN-ENDED QUESTION", which is a matter to be debated based on the views/opinions of those who participated... I asked for it.

3. Even if i'm PRO-GAY, my sexual preference is still (and will remain) STRAIGHT...but who gives a damn, anyway ;-P

4. THANKS FOR THE COMPLIMENT...at least it felt like the QL I knew before, it wasn't a boring day at all.

GOOD NIGHT....

I find it interesting that some people love judging people even though they're not ... hmmmm ... what's the word? God?

Ate Azi

I respect your professional attitude and your sexual preference, even I know for fact, we can't see each other 'eye to eye.'

Pat yourself in the back for this dammed good forum you choose.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

"You ask a normal doctor of medicine and he will tell you that medically-speaking, homosexuality is an abnormality."

Have you ever asked a gay doctor ?? ROFL

good luck continuing that line of thought!!

and happy weekend to all...including you, Rumpel.

i'm off to another thread...lol

Dude..why are you talking to me ??

didn't you say that it is not worth reading my posts ?? then why are you talking to me..are you not smart ??? u r not expecting me to reply to you, are you ?? cuz u r wasting your time my friend.. i don't respond to haters and confused people who don't know the difference between gay and child molesters.. i dunno how you link the two or incests or whatever perversion in your head..i'm not sure where you got this combo from..where were you raised anyway ?? MARS ??

Plus..wow man..such a mouth you have..u kiss your mother with that mouth ??

Obviously you are not the type of people that i would call MATURE to have a conversation with and tell them what the Qur'an said about homosexuality..but i can tell you what the Qur'an said about bigots and people haters and racists.. "Lakom deenokom wa leya deen"..in simple English, TALK TO THE HAND.

And just for the record, you owe these people an apology..so let's see the man you are..whether you are gonna apologize for insulting them, or you are gonna be a stuck up and not worth talking to..the ball is in your court. We are just watching. Have a sparkling life!!

there's quite a number of thread I went with Azi and not just went with her but defended hard her position or anybody's position specifically against Alecs....

But for this case, we just disagree on something I feel we agree a little bit (we just don't see level to level). Like you, I'm with you in rejecting same sex marriage but I do recognize the right of homosexuals to co-exist with "normal" people (somebody will quote me again) and not be banned as long as they subdue their sexual desire with same gender. Like a Klepto..., as long as they can subdue their desire to pick-up things that don't belong to them, it's ok for them to live with the rest. Good night everybody, specially to two valiant protagonist, Azi and Gypsy.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

you can do better than that...

I already said/admitted that I'm NOT as smart or as intelligent as YOU are, RUMPEL...

BUT you have to admit that I am "right" that you mis-read the PRO-GAY word...lol

of course not

I'm just laughing coz you WANT to bring this to another level thus the DARE....you are really serious with this???? :-D

Edging me to accept your DARE and your insinuation is kinda childish...sorry, not taking the bait.

Like I said, it's your view...and I asked for it, you answered.

AND PLEASE...I INSIST...I PREFER YOU AS AN INCOGNITO...and it will remain that way.

she is the "expert" and she knows "everything"! She is even giving me some lessons in English!

I don't think she needs the opinion of a doctor ;-)

your choice. Good, you are in the medical field, I just wander why you don't know it. Maybe you missed a classroom lecture? Hey, watch your BP, I feel it's getting serious. I don't have that kind of attitude, anyone who read this latest post of yours will think you have that kind of attitude. Relax, my dear. we're just into discussion. We have not agreed to go and see a doctor. Anybody wants to join us?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

Psychologist? a general practioner? a surgeon?

Being married to one or having friends in the medical profession doesn't make you one...don't you know that?

BTW...I'm a PRE-MED GRADUATE and a LICENSED MEDICAL TECHNOLOGIST...so don't give me that "I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU" attitude.

DARE ME? WHAT FOR? PHULEEEZZZ???? :-/

you think all people have your same level of English?

I was clearly saying that if you support homosexuality, then you have no problem in supporting incest & supporting pedophiles. As long as you have no moral barrier against one disgusting issue, then you will not have a moral barrier against all disgusting issues

gay marriage,, just fcuk off to all who supports it.....so what exactly was women made for....

god damn it...yuk and filthy than eating shiiiiit....

http://www.qatarliving.com/group/ql-kairali

YOU DONT KNOW ME, DONT EVEN TRY !!!

[img_assist|nid=98090|title=New|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]

PRO - meaning "for" or "supports"

ANTI - opposite of "PRO"

My BAD...you think PRO-GAY is 'PROFESSIONAL GAY'?...LOL

Maybe your understanding of being a PRO-GAY people means they are also GAY???

"Gay + Bond + Religion = Gay Marriage"

There is no religion involved in guy marriages that is allowed in some countries. It's pure civil laws

all those who don't know that homosexuality is considered abnormality in the medical profession. DARE anyone??????????????? Tell me the time and place and we all go to a NORMAL doctor!!!!!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

You could go on posting for years but that will never change the fact that homosexuals are disgusting & condemned in ALL religions.

Away from religion, they are one of the main reasons behind the social diseases that corrupt any society.

This is why that not only their marriages should be banned, but they should be socially isolated because they set an ugly example to the new generations.

we go to a doctor and ask this question. I'm married to one in the medical profession, I have a lot of doctor-friend but I'll still go with someone you knew to make it unbias. DARE??????? we're talking of real doctors here, huh?

And please, I never coerce anybody or anyone throughout my life. Maybe there is a slight truth in Rumple...'s "gossip" (you said it not me).

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

hehe.. thanks..

"i'm PRO-GAY"

this means you also have no problem at all with incest & pedophiles! Simple logic!

Since you are talking about "mercyful" religions, can you show me a verse from any of them were homosexuals are being praised?

You are a pathetic hypocrate...but still I am not condemning you if you do practice incest

Carry on :-P

let me try this in a different way.. MATH this time..hehehehe

Gay + Bond + Religion = Gay Marriage

Gay + Bond - Religion = Civil Union

is this clear now ?? I hope so.. :)

61.4% sound more than a majority. VERY FRUSTRATING INDEED

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

that being "GAY" is an ABNORMALITY...tsk tsk tsk

And I expected so much from you than this...talk about giving people the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

You are entitled to your opinion...we respect that...just don't FORCE/COERCE others to AGREE with you. I may not be as religious as you seemed to be...but I'm not A BIGOT.

Don't insist on telling us who your are...we prefer you as you are...an INCOGNITO.

no religious aspects on QB's post, ow, com'on.

At least he's brave to admit that he's gay BUT against gay marriage. He's for Gay civil union. Start a thread regrding civil union, then we'll tackle it separately.

Yes, QB was right that what was legalize was civil union and not gay marriage. Marriage is also a union but usually connotes church marriage with the blessing of God. That's what we stand for, NO RELIGION WILL EVER LEGALIZE SAME SEX MARRIAGE IF THEY TRULY BELIEVE IN GOD.

IT'S PRECISELY WHAT i SAID IN MY EARLIER POSTS THAT IF WE TALK ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE, YOU CAN NOT SEPARATE OR exCLUDE RELIGION IN THE DISCUSSION, tell me I am wrong QB

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

SBC Resolution #7 - On The California Supreme Court Decision To Allow Same-Sex Marriage

Posted on June 12, 2008 by Tom

SBC Resolutions

7. On The California Supreme Court Decision To Allow Same-Sex Marriage

June 2008

WHEREAS, On May 15, 2008, the California Supreme Court struck down the state’s ban on same-sex marriage thus frustrating the will of the people who, on March 7, 2000, voted in favor (61.4%) of Proposition 22 which affirmed, “Only marriage between a man and [...]

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

as long as they are happy and dont bother any one else,live and let live

Now at least someone from the MY group (I'm LESBO,remember...Rumpel said so...lol) could expound the facts without the 'religious aspects' butting in.

Kudos to you, Qatarbear!!!!

you're wrong. the only person I know is having a chinese username. so anybody who wants to know me, start searching. I'm not holy but definitely knows what's right and wrong when it comes to this topic. Let us make it an intelligent discussion, huh. com'on gays and .....ns. I told you, I accept your naturality, just don't "mess" with me

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

is considered PATHETIC here...coz you never represent (nor SPEAK in behalf of) ANYONE in this advocate of self-righteousness.

Still you tend to violate your religion's teachings.

Is in not against the teaching to JUDGE/BRAND/ASSUME about others ESPECIALLY THOSE who ARE DIFFERENT???

Resorting to CHARACTER LAMBASTING is also frowned upon?

ALL believe that ALLAH (GOD/YAHWEH, and/or whatever name HE IS KNOWN/CALLED) is EVER SO WISE & MERCIFUL...NEVER JUDGEMENTAL...then WHY are you so NOT?

I may not be as intelligent/wise as you are...but I do have my place in this world...and friends who accepts me for who I am and I am to them.

I may agree or disagree with some things in the world, but I respect/accept the things I have no power to change.

Even though I'm gay, I'm not pro gay marriage. However, I'm pro civil union. What's the difference one might ask!!

I would like to think of marriage as an institution between a man and a woman that provides religious acceptance to be together and all human rights that follows it, such as immigration, taxation, inheritance, insurance..etc. and I can understand how people may get upset because we are trying to "equalize" between the two when the reality is that both will never be equal from a religious point of view. That's why I don't want the gay union to infringe upon what was already established for the straight community.

A civil union however, will provide all the legal humanitarian rights without touching the religious part. I think that this is fair enough. As long as the civil union will give me the same exact rights, i mean immigration, inheritance, tax relief, insurance and so forth, without touching religion or asking for God's blessing on this union then I'm happy.

I think this is a good enough solution that will make the straight community happy since, religiously we are not equal and we are not asking for God's blessing in this union. So please, don't bring the religion as a reason to block my access to simple human rights. And if you are gonna say no, then please provide a solution or an alternative thought since I'm not gonna live my life according to YOUR standards and neither am I gonna wait for your acceptance. It is just super annoying when people say no and not provide any solutions. It means two things:

1)- U have no clue about what you are talking about and have a mental block that hovers over your head just because you don't like what you are hearing.

2)- You are incapable of freeing your mind and thinking outside the box. No creativity what so ever.

So, other than religion, morality and ethics, what else can you say about gay marriage..oops..gay civil union i should say!!..

Sorry for my long posts and thanks for your patience.

you even quote the Quran, you just strengtened our position.... we do not condone homosexuality. What we reject is legalizing same sex marriage.

You ask a normal doctor of medicine and he will tell you that medically-speaking, homosexuality is an abnormality.

And Azi, remember the words of QB, sodom and gomorrah was punished because of non-believing to God, precisely, that's why they practice sodomy and all filthu manners. Because if you believe in God, they could have not done all those sins.

I agree with QB, homosexuals are acceptable in the society, but legalizing gay marriage is another matter. Wake-up guys, we are not against homosexual, it's the sexual preference of them and the topic of legalizing gay marriage we are objecting.

QB even said that if the place where the same sex partner would like to tie the knot doesn.t accept it, then they have to move to another place. I don't know why you can't understand us but you clap your hands with QB.s post. Go on Rumple.... I think they are starting to feel the heat

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

servant / Houseboy

I am 23 year old Indian male looking for partime job as a domestic servant / Houseboy i am obidiant and sincere

if u want pls call..6825193

we are "pathetic creatures" because we choose to be straight, normal, moral and commit to our religion.

Once we legalize adultry, bastard children, gay marriages, then we will become a "developed" nation. Right, sport?

servant / Houseboy

I am 23 year old Indian male looking for partime job as a domestic servant / Houseboy i am obidiant and sincere

if u want pls call..6825193

Wow! We have a new scholar/preacher! Tell me my "dear brother"; what does the Quran say about homosexuality? Does it condemn it or does it praise it?

Zenon: "Repeat: "Stay on point my man - is that too much to ask??""

Repeat: "I will! Once I am talking to a worthy person"

Azi: "is that all you can accuse me of???"

I'm not accusing you of anything. I was informed that you actually practice it(only God knows)! But, hey..I am not condemning you at all!..it is your personal freedom...exactly like homosexuality! No one can stop a woman from being a lesbian, therefor, no one can stop her from doing it with her baby sister! it's all personal freedom in some "healthy" societies, no?

oh, I see. Dracula is very "messy" with his big teeth in his face.

Yes our current GOVERNMENT laws are based on the teachings of the bible, NOT IN THE REASONING AND TEACHINGS OF HOMOSEXUALS OR LESBIANS.

President Bush,In a message to Tehran, he said: "You bet you have a sovereign right, absolutely, but you don't have the trust of those of us who have watched you carefully when it comes to enriching uranium."

Magic Dragon, thats just it, it wasn't my choice of words I quoted them from Draculas post.....

meaning...there is no intent to "drag" said "certain group"...nor hurt "anyone's" feelings here.

Everything that's being discussed here are personal views, which is what it's all about.

As I said, i'm PRO-GAY...and the question was (and still is): Should SAME SEX MARRIAGE be legalized AND THIS TOPIC is an ongoing debate/discussion all over the world. I've been watching this subject in the news: CNN, BBC, etc...

If you remember the previous topic I started last year, I defended my topic to the end...and I still stand by it.

However, as this is a forum, people will express their views as they see/believe it....I can't stop that. Because I asked for their views/opinion.

It's their FREEDOM OF SPEECH & EXPRESSION.

I may not have been actively participating in the discussion but I am watching/reading each posts/comments.

supernurse, my concern was your choice of words. If they were quoted, you're not addressed.

MagiDragon...if you care to look closely at my post you will see the inverted commas meaning it was a quote from a former post....I pointed it out and made light of it.......and I didn't understand what you meant anyway....take a look

why not put up a thread about your pathetic life instead? since you are so proud enough to say that all the hot threads are from you... when the truth is that you just want to put someone elses life to shame and embarassment... ask them if you are hot or not? or who had the best night with you... how about that for a start?

supernurse, suggesting you are a woman: what about you "messing around" with the other sex? Is that "messing around" better just because there are two different sexes involved? Or shouldn't you try to look at the whole issue a bit more relaxed?

'messing around with same sexes at night'lol OR day even..heaven forbid...

you are correct...this is a LEGAL TOPIC

Though I follow Christ, I still admire the Islamic faith.

.

One reason, there is no compromise.

.

(Maybe except "adultery".

In fact there's not adulters!

Why?

Muslim men have the option of polygamy, divorce by repudiation (talaq) as well as the institution of temporary marriages (misyar) so they have no need to commit adultery!)

.

.

I notice how Christians try to bend the rules to fit their purposes.

And most pastors, especially the so- called "televangelists" just preach what the people want to hear.

I called them "prosperity pastors."

.

In Islam, it is different.

No smoking, no drinking, no form of homosexuality.

In most Islamic countries, same sex relation is a punishable offense.

The Koran in the 26th Sura says: "What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, and leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are froward folk."

.

I'm not advocating punishments, I'm just advocating for the truth to be told.

.

What is the truth?

.

It's ok to be gay, but it is definitely not ok to be gay while messing around with same sexes at night.

azilana...why don't you put up a thread that you can better relate with..not those kind that you will drag a certain group... good thing there are people who kept defending them.. it's just too depressing reading them...

so much for the friendship...

you are concerned too much about moral and ethics. This is a legal topic. If two people, for whatever reason, decide to spend their lifes together and support each other then they should be awarded with all legal rights of heritage, pension, and so on. And that's what it is basically about.

Well that's an excellent reason for them to keep a low profile is'nt it? They are only commiting social suicide by demanding rights of marriage etc.

Because Overlook, there are unfortunately a lot of people out there who don't believe in the saying of live and let live.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

My eyes work well tq. I know very well that all sorts of people from all walks of life live very different lives, many of them not very pleasant. They are welcome to do as they wish as long as they do not impose their views on me or my family. But nothing you can say will convince me that hs's are nice, normal people. If they are, then why do they have to make such a big issue about their sexuality? I don't and my friends don't, but maybe that's because we are hetero and have no axe to grind. Also we tend to keep our personal lives (and certainly our sex lives) to ourselves. Why don't you just do the same, what is the point of making such a big issue out of your sexuality? Be yourself and don't bother anyone else with it OK?

I am humbled by your erudite post.

Count me as your friend for that thoughtful, intelligent, balanced and candid post.

Best Wishes Orry x

ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.......get over it guys!

You called me "innocent" before. It seems you are the one that is really innocent! Persons with certain sexual predilictions do not change mid stream from one type of sexual behavour to another. If a homosexual (who I am not saying is a deviant) has no opportunity to have a sexual liason with a man dosn't mean they will turn to assulting young boys.

It may interest you to know that I have friends that work in prisons with prisoners. They will tell you that in terms of the real deviants, pedos and the like, you wouldn't know. They come from all walks of life, creed and standing in the community. A recent international police sting on pedos had the same result (it was an investigation into individuals downloading child p0rn). Doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, police, religous figures, married, unmarried - in short all sorts - were charged.

I think you are too one eyed. I am not telling you to like homosexuals - just open the other eye.

is that all you can accuse me of???

What would my FAMILY/FRIENDS would say? :-O

Poor man...Don't you worry...I will think of some topic about INCEST so you will have the chance to speak out your mind, share your WONDROUS VIEWS and teach 'US' who does not walk the right path. :-P

Uuugghh..talk about people who have a GIGANTIC 'something' stuck up in their sorry 'whatever'....lol

I am known to start hot topics such as this one...but do be clear...we don;t want to get censored here ;-P

Thank you guys for your comments and believe me, i'm not here to boost my ego or anything. I'm a regular guy who believes in the power of mind and the gift that God gave me and always tries to sharpen it by reading and understanding people more and more.

It amazes me how us -Arabs- are getting more and more ignorant about our own religion by the day. I'm not sure where in the Qur'an or hadeeth or sunna that states bashing people who are different from you is ok. And when they find something that is different or against what they believe in, they can't wait to see who will insult faster, cause harm quicker and more. They never EVER try to think or provide a solution for whatever problem they face. We, Arabs, are good at pointing fingers and blaming others without thinking about how to correct ourselves and admit our faults and start working on our own self development. Similar ideas to what is happening in Palestine.. Let's blame America and Israel for that crisis. God forbid if we wake up and say SHAME ON US FOR LETTING THEM DO THAT. The same goes on gay people. Let's just bash them and show them hell but when you ask them. WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO ??..that's it man!!..a deer in headlights!!

My dear Arab brothers and sisters. WAKE UP!!..there is nothing wrong with admitting your faults and learn and develop yourself because it is never too late. Please don't look at gay merely as sexual intercourse as opposed to a way of living which is ok in ALL religion to be gay but it is NOT OK to have the sexual contact. BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG DIFFERENCE between the two. And when you start criticizing us for being what we are, because none is the right mind would chose a life that is against religion and society, be smart and provide an alternative solution. If you can't then please let me enjoy some quiet time because my mind is constantly on the run trying to reconcile my sexuality and my belief. I don't need any more garbage. Im constantly thinking about what i'm gonna say to God when i meet him. I know I will ask him to ask YOU for what you have done to me. So please start preparing for an answer since you never know when we will all die. it might be right now..are you ready to face God with all this bashing ?? that's for you to think about and for me to listen when God asks you.

So PLEASE.. The mouth is a powerful tool. EXTREMELY Powerful. U can build a nation with one word and you can kill it with one word as well. So play nicely!!!

PS: there is so much respect to be given for someone who admits his faults and learns from his mistakes. Don't claim that you know it all. May God be with you all.

Salam

Don't assume things azilana7037 lol. Larry is my portable matress - I am going camping this evening...

"If you've any experience with "sexual deviants" Overlook you'd know that there are deviants who are hetrosexual, homosexual and bi sexual. Pedophiles that molest little girls will never ever molest little boys and think that homosexuality is disgusting, and vice versa."

What if the paedophile is bisexual? Or maybe he just a predator and is not particular about the sex of his victims. How would you know? A deviant is a deviant, if his particular prediliction is not available who can say what he or she would do?

TMI(too much info), guys?

;-P

I'm off to pump Larry....

Nope not at all. I don't think two people engaging in consensual sex could ever be considered deviant. I guess I have much more experience dealing with deviance to be able to consider such vanilla and loving acts a problem. Perhaps you should try fostering or adopting some children, and we'll see how you feel.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

Excuse me but are you seriously saying that Joe pumping Larry is not deviant sexual behaviour?

Exactly - I am sick and tired of these simplistic agruments being put forward. Once sexual predeliction dosn't lead to another. Anyway - this is an utter waste of time that could be better spend geing down and deiviant - in a hetrosexual kinda way of course;)

Repeat: "Stay on point my man - is that too much to ask??"

If you've any experience with "sexual deviants" Overlook you'd know that there are deviants who are hetrosexual, homosexual and bi sexual. Pedophiles that molest little girls will never ever molest little boys and think that homosexuality is disgusting, and vice versa. True deviant behaviour ie: getting off on unconsentual sex. Is much different then mere homosexuality or hetrosexuality.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

I am not sure there is much difference between your position here and what you say your position is not, although I acknowledge you say there is a difference.

Ok - Where is the barrier? Just because Adam likes Steve doesn't mean Adam also likes small boys. Correlation? Well why single out homosexual behavour?

I think the two sexual behavours you are talking about are seperate and distinct. One is a preaditory behavour - exploiting young children - the other is consentual behavour amongst adults. While you don't condone such behavour I don't agree that one necessarily correlates to what I consider to be sexual criminal activity. It's a bit leap.

"engaging in petty insults "

I dont do that. All I am doing is holding a mirror in your face.

I did not say that being a homo automatically means that you are a child molester. I said that I believe there is a correlation between homosexuality and other sexual deviations. Why? Because homosexuality is a deviant form of sexual behaviour, if you accept it and participate in it then where is the moral barrier between it and other forms of deviant sexual behaviour?

Well gald to your double standards in open display. If you can't discuss matters without calling people liers and engaging in petty insults I don't know the point of your being here. Stay on point my man - is that too much to ask??

I bring the manners that suit the person I am talking to

I haven't found them any different from other adopted children, are you against adoption in general Overlook?

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

Im not lying about anything - you simply misunderstood me. I ealier ackonwledged that your point was directed at countries other than but including the west - (although it did not change my point)....But gald to you have brought your bad manners along with you to QL. Gald to see you have also read 'All' of my 70+ posts to back up your claim..

when you are so corrupt to accept practicing homosexuality, you will do any filthy thing like incest, molest children, rape...etc. Once you believe in no God (hence you have no morals) then there is nothing to work as a barrier against corruption. It's all connected, and giving rights to one disease will lead to a life full of all diseases.

Well that would be understandable wouldn't it, I mean other people not understanding the parents lifestyle? You think those kids are normal, but how much stick do you think they have suffered from other kids at school, and don't you think they miss the other natural parent, either mum or dad?

Constructive post, I salute you.

It's interesting how the "Desert God"'s three religions all equate sex with death and death with life, don't you think?

Violence?- no problem! But fill the wrong hole with an appendage and they freak out!!!!

For our Abrahamic faith friends....you do realise that you partake in a death cult, don't you?

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

when there is a person worthy of respectful discussion, I'll gladly do that. I can't help it if you feel annoyed when I tell you that you are simply lying.

You need to get your figures right, understand what people tell you, respect them when they disagree with what you try to dictate, then maybe start giving advices.

Although I think it is a waste of effort trying to make understand such ethics.

I already told you that you were lying, like in ALL your posts, so why do I need to bother read an earlier post of yours?

"I believe there is a correlation between homosexual behaviour and other sexual deviations, because my common sense tells me so!" Well I must make an "observation" that your common sense isn't too common and dosn't make much sense. Simply because someone is a homosexual dosn't make them a child molester. Thank God you'll never sit on a jury! Oh and thanks for the obsevation - I am not as corrupted as I and people like you would have me think!

Cheers

WOW QatarBear, hat's off and kudos and standing ovation! I seriously bow to you. I can hold my own with the Christians in the whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing, but not Muslims cause unfortunately I don't know the Quran enough.

As for the rest of it, Britexpat, it's not to early to say the effects of same sex adoption. As I said I know 4 children brought up by same sex couples and they are perfectly normal. And no, they don't view heterosexual sex as abnormal (in fact they are all heterosexual)the only thing they view as abnormal is people's complete inability to understand their parents lifestyle.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

My response is that unfortunately many people do not possess much common sense! That is the reason why such ridiculous things as this become the subject of huge public debate, when they are obviously not worthy of it. I believe there is a correlation between homosexual behaviour and other sexual deviations, because my common sense tells me so! I will continue to distance myself from homosexuals and I will teach my children to do the same. My comment on your innocence was not intended to be personal, merely an observation.

I really think you should consider attending "constructive arguments 101" - Me and "my people" - who are they??? Seems you are contradicting yourself here - anyway read my ealier post at 5:41pm - I wont repeat it because I dont think it will make a difference.

I am growing tired of this circular discusion.

"Worked with an "Asian" guy... till he caught Hepatitus.."

Please don't read it then. I'm not here to discuss what you think i want to say rather than what i actually said. U have my post, take it or leave it. You won't change my life. Enjoy yours.

Salam

I must agree with you..

Worked with an "Asian" guy... He used to earn 4K a month salary and drive a Mercedes.. He was doing well for himself, till he caught Hepatitus..

Mind you , its ages since I heard the word "mincer" used.:)

who have your head in the sand, zenon. I NEVER accused the 'west'. This is just another lie as in all your posts on QL. Don't try to put words in people's mouths if you have no words to say.

My post is very clear and it is about sick communities who treat adultry, illegal children, homosexuality..etc as legal. Soon these (sick) communities will legalize incest & paedofiles

Haha - see!

Yes it may be offensive to you - so what is your response? To go out and paint all homosexuals as sexual preaditors chasing children???

I am not saying I don't respect your right to disagree with homosexuality or that you should not find it offensive. However to equate a homosexual with a child sexual preditor is not just offensive - its just plain wrong.

To be honest...I've never seen so many mincers since I've lived in the middle east and that includes locals AND expats (Qatar more so than UAE funnily enough!)

You do not know me at all Overlook so lets not make personal attacks here. Yes statistics can be manipulated to pursue a goal - but so can religon. In my 'innocent' recollection of history religon has been used on more then one occasion to justify war and worse. So - obejective 'clean' facts (including statistics) over religous bigitory and holier then thou proclamtions of right and wrong? Give me facts any day or night of the week!

Let me be absoutley clear - If you are going to make attacks on something such as gay marriage you'll really need better arguments then the ones you are constructing, based on - common sense - a common sense according to you! Many many people don't see your "common sence" so if you are going to argue the toss with someone other then a person with your same beliefs - think a bit more and have a stronger postion. Otherwise your words are empty. Your only preaching to the converted.

So what? Legalised homosexual marriage is very offensive to me and my beliefs.

- I have made over 70 posts - what do you mean "ALL"??you really love to generalise about everything including me now it seems!

Anyway your ealier post dosn't change a thing. Yes it includes the west and other countries too. The fact remains that in the Arab world has these same sexual 'diseases' wheather you are willing to pull your head out of your sand dune and see that or not.

Common sense is the ability, using ones own experience and brainpower, to determine if so called 'evidence' can actually be justified in reality. If you have any practical experience of the common use of 'statistics' you would know that they are commonly used, (as in construction safety statistics), to convey a totally false impression of the reality of any given situation.

You are innocent in the extreme.

you are assuming once again:

"By 'they' I assume you mean the west"

You need to read my earlier post. I clearly said:

" am not gonna specify a certain country but I assure you that any country in the world where adultry is legal (partners live legally together without marriage & have legal rights) and most of the citizens are bastards (they are born out of wedlock) (southland can get the meaning from dictionary.com), then such countries are sinking in social diseases & the society is corrupt. I am talking about ALL countries & ALL religions! (to be fair)"

Well I know who to call next time I need the moral police Rumpelstiltskin. Can you pass me your cell number?

"They lost such manners in societies that have drifted away from God & are now sinking in filth & social diseases". By 'they' I assume you mean the west? Well I have news for you - gays exist in the Arab world! They always have and always will - this not unique to one culture or another. So don't pull your holier than thou rubbish with me.

actually. And so are peopel who practice incest

Be very careful - you are equating homosexuals with paedofiles? One involves 2 consenting adults. The other is the sexual exploitation of children. I am not homsexual but that is very very offensive.

homosexuals ARE abnormal & sinners in ALL religions, but arabs maybe are still brave enough to point out/highlight a wrongful/sinful person. They lost such manners in societies that have drifted away from God & are now sinking in filth & social diseases!

So if we recognise the legality of homosexual marriages, how long before other groups of sexual deviants, such as paedophiles, pet shop boys etc., demand the legalisation of their own disgusting practices?

You are brave!

It was a pleasure to read your post.

It is good to finally see that not everyone in the Arab community would rather sit and suck their thumbs in their comfortable little reality, but rather wake up and face the real world.

This is a great step up - finally, homosexual Arabs can turn to some of their own peoples that won’t, with a finger pointed, mouth frothing, eyes bulging, scream “you are a sin and an abomination and you will go straight to burn in the hell”, but rather, “you’re not abnormal, you’re not a sinner and you’re not alone.”

___________

A hetero!

I take my hat off to you.. I don't agree with the "gay marriage" bit but your post was worth reading..

What i said was..try to support THEIR/YOUR VIEWS without quoting religious books (scriptures/Bible/Koran, et al)...it's turning to be a case of "HOLIER THAN THOU" discussion...

Hate to drive a truck through your paper thin argument - but I wasn't the one who stated there was 'evidence' to show that a child would be adversely affected. I simply asked a previous poster to show the 'evidence' he was quoting.

As for "simple common sense should tell us that children WILL be affected in some way if they are brought up by 'parents' both of whom are male or female" Well where is your proof for that other then religous texts and emotion? There are plenty of children brought up in the world by two adults of the same sex such as mothers and grandmothers. They may not be in a sexual relationship but it is analagous.

As for your other remark "As for 'evidence' read 'statistics', and we all know that 'statistics' is the art of manipulating figures to justify whatever it is you need to justify. Wakey wakey!" - wrong again on that one. True statistical study is a mathamatical objective study that dosn't rely on religlous or other bigitory to arrive at its conclusions.

So wakey wakey - you'll really have to do better then that to convince anyone with an open reasoned mind.

Cheers

if you intend to attack people when you dont like their point of views?

i know you always post about extreme sexual issues which you seem to be fond of. i was even informed that you are a big fan (and supporter ) of incest and that you are asking for it to be legalized & practiced in public. No?

it started wrong ("I love it when people use Qur'an to justify their position about homosexuality") and would be a waste of time to continue reading it.

Use any othe holy book you like to show me that Homosexuality is "good", "right" & "normal"

QatarBear your points are well made. I am not a particularly religous person but I feel compeled to quote from a religous text (which is very out of character for me lol), the Bible, seeing as everyone else has:

"John 8:1-11 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what say you? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not]. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her'. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

We shouldn't judge lest we be judged...

Ok that's my Sunday school moment for the day...

Don't talk about 'evidence' here, simple common sense should tell us that children WILL be affected in some way if they are brought up by 'parents' both of whom are male or female. As for 'evidence' read 'statistics', and we all know that 'statistics' is the art of manipulating figures to justify whatever it is you need to justify. Wakey wakey!

And I TOTALLY...DEFINITELY...200% AGREE WITH YOU ON THOSE POINTS!!!!!

whooooo hooo hoooo...

QatarBear....very nice....:)

"BUT....All evidence say that societies who allowe homosexual couples to be legal, IN THE FIRST PLACE, are societies suffering from social diseases, which prevent them from realizing the damage that is being caused to those poor children."

Ah what evidence????? Ah that's right - there is none. What "social diseases" are you refering to anyway?

Salam all,

I love it when people use Qur'an to justify their position about homosexuality, as if they are real Muslims to begin with, i.e wake up at 3 AM to pray Al Fajr, constantly reading Qur'an, pray 5 times a day, actually pay alms and live their lives as real Muslims to be an example to be followed.

Fine!!..u decided to open a can of warms..well here is my 2 cents. I'm a Muslim, Arab who happen to be gay and who spent YEARS researching homosexuality and it took me way far. Took me to Al Azhar University, Ein Shams University (Dept of psychology), University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA Dept of Psychology) to learn about homosexuality and to educate people about it. So, please if you are interested in a mature conversation, then stop bashing people for whoever they are and respect the difference. You are not obligated to believe in them, you are not required to understand them, just know that they are different and move on and keep your opinions to yourself. Whether they are gay, bisexual, trisexual, quadsexual..whatever!!..NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS...agreed ??? here is what i want to say and i will try to make this brief:

1)- None, in Islam, is in a position to judge anyone..Not even Immams and shiekhs just so you know. So keep your judgment to yourself because it doesn't mean anything.

2)- Mr. Muslim.. get back to the books and remember when prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said "Wa zeyaret al mareed sadaqah".."and visiting the sick people is a charity".. He never said and bashing or killing the sick people is charity, ok ?? and please also know that i don't mean by what i said that gay people are sick people, but if you view them as sick people then kindly please follow the Islamic etiquettes in dealing with sick people and stop being a hypocrite.

3)- Please note that the LARGER reason that goes beyond homosexuality that made God curse people of LUT is the disbelief in God to begin with, THEN the homosexual act. So you are talking about people who rejected God as a whole package. So don't equate the people of Lut to Muslims please, that's why we says muslims are believers not disbelievers. And that was my research in Al-Azhar University and the conclusion was "Ijtihad is needed in this point" i.e. it is not resolved yet. you want to make an opinion about this, then please, by all means, Go to Mecca or Al Azhar University and come up with a fatwa because there is none so far according to my records.

4)- Guys, there are gay people who are trying to live in a way that is compatible with what God said regardless of their sexual desires. There are some gay people who know that they are gay and can not change it but decide to go celibate just because they feel more comfortable with their lives that way. So please consider what you say about burning in hell and all that unnecessary talk because there are people who are genuinely trying. And their lives are not like anything that any straight Muslim can bare, so pls have some respect for that and give them credit for trying to go against their instincts. something YOU CAN NOT DO YOURSELF. And such comments are not making it any easier for them and you will be asked by God when you stand before him about what you said. So please prepare for your after death and save yourself from the hell that you are talking about where gay people will go to cuz you never know, you might go there First Class yourself just because you were bashing them. God knows!!!

5)- The social disease..God I love that term..Social disease..oooooo..as if premarital sex is not a social disease..as if discrimination based on sexual orientation, nationality (which happens here and we all have a taste of it), gender..etc is not a disease, not praying ON TIME is not a disease, being hypocrite is not a disease..i mean, where da hell do you live ??..sorry but get your head outta your posterior.

6)- Gay marriage, if the citizens of a given country live under a constitution that separates religion from state, then they should allow gay marriage because they don't have a religious government (BY CHOICE). But if they live in a government that implement religion and it is against religion, then they should immigrate and get married somewhere else.It won't be safe for them to live there anyway. I can't regulate other people's life. It is not my job and i don't want it to be. I mind my own business and wish well for everyone.

7)- Seeing a doctor to treat homosexuality is the most idiotic thing i have ever heard. You can't treat something that you don't know where it is coming from. So please don't make it sound like curing homosexuality is just as easy as buying ice-cream. And if you are going to recommend treatment, you'd better have some physical evidence of the cause itself. I mean, follow proper scientific research methods to reach a treatment. Top universities such as John Hopkins, UCLA and many others don't have a clue about what causes homosexuality cuz none knows..so please don't wear the lab outfit when you are not qualified to wear it.

Thanks for listening..and please if you want to reply to this message, please be mature because i don't waste time with bigots and people haters due to their inferiority complex. Those are the disease of the society indeed. Thanks again,

Salam Alikom

RESPECT BEGETS RESPECT, I SAY...

Anyway...the day is almost over...

so if you folks want to be "____"-headed ABOUT THE TOPIC...go ahead...

i'm off to enjoy my 2 days OFF...yeheeey!!!!

Have a nice weekend EVERYONE!!!!

"Isn't it more likely that a baby brought up by same sex parents would consider that to be the norm and may then regard heterosexual behaviour as abnormal" - Hmm no. I think that is a streach.

However I think a person brought up by a same sex couple would not view same sex couples as perfectly normal - assuming they were brought up in a happy and stable home.

As for the rights and wrongs of it all I'll leave that to others to be righteous about..

I have discovered why Azi, Gyps and others are arguing so strongly...

LONDON - Gay men and straight women share some characteristics in the area of the brain responsible for emotion, mood and anxiety, researchers said on Monday in a study highlighting the potential biological underpinning of sexuality.

I rest my case. I would also like to rest my hat, cane and overcoat.

"There's no evidence to support the idea that children raised by a homosexual couple will grow up any differently then children raised by a straight couple"

BUT....All evidence say that societies who allowe homosexual couples to be legal, IN THE FIRST PLACE, are societies suffering from social diseases, which prevent them from realizing the damage that is being caused to those poor children.

This would lead to children/new generations who see that it is normal to...for example...make bastard children (out of wedlock).

If youtruly belive in God, then you have to belive in the scriptures..

No good trying oplay both sides here..:0)

Obviously the evidence regarding same sex couples and children is not there because this is a recent phenomena..

Isn't it more likely that a baby brought up by same sex parents would consider that to be the norm and may then regard heterosexual behaviour as abnormal ?

I'm bored with religious babbel. I'm off for a nice cold drink and a relaxing weekend. See ya later y'all ;)

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Some guys are so awful that yes - the thought has crossed my mind!

Of course...

I mean I am a hot blooded girl who loves a chiseled bum in shorts but yes... some guys are so toad-like that they inspire!

I guess going to an all girls school didn't help either.

you have just gave a wonderful example of people who come from societies that are sinking in social diseases. Exactly your mentality!

Azzy they HAVE to quote their holy books because that's the only possible reason they have not to allow gay marriage. A work of fiction written 1400 years ago.

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All pigs are not sick, and God doesn't exist, so Mohammed or whoever was the author of the Quran or the Bible or whatever other bit of fiction you're talking about.

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"NORMAL from your point of view..." it is not only MY point of view. It is the point og view of all religions, also.

"And please refrain from citing from the Koran/Bible or anything religious..." it is not up to you to decide what people should answer. As long as we are discussing a topic, people are free to put on disply, their point of views in any approach they see fit.

Anyway I don't reply people with limitid views & when there are conditions on the discussion.

"ALLAH, IN YAHWEH...this is irregardless/irrelevant"

It is 100% relevant. It is not up to you to decide that!

Gypsy there's a difference between fiction and reality, we live in a real world not in the matrix lol. Quran is not a story book and god is not an author. This is the problem with media, people like u believe in it soo much that u think its real, then u try to compare the stupid message given in movies with what god has said. It has no logic and its pointless. Tomorrow your kids will grow up and say prostitution is legal, just cuz they watched a porno movie... believing in fiction.

When the chicken has bird flu or cow has mad cow, people avoid the infected ones, but they dont stop eating chicken or cow... there's a difference between a certain amount or all of them. What I said about pigs was about all the pigs.

fear karma, it bites u in the butt.

"SEX" per se...coitus...libido...

isn't MARRIAGE the UNION of two individuals who love each other and wants to spend the rest of their lives TOGETHER?

where can we see/read that only a man and a woman could marry/wed/unite?

Well,Rumpel...technically speaking, sexual orientation alone cannot decide whether a person is normal or not. A heterosexual person can be abnormal(in whatever sense of the word) and a homosexual person can be as normal as the next person.

They might not be normal in ur view, rumpel but clinical psychology and empirical studies have proven otherwise. So we have no option but to accept they are normal.

whats the problem? Come on guys you must have thought what it must be like eh??

There's no evidence to support the idea that children raised by a homosexual couple will grow up any differently then children raised by a straight couple. The only confusion comes from other children and parents who see it as acceptable to punish the child for his/her parents. I personally know several children raised by homosexual couples and they are all perfectly well adjusted and happy, functioning people.

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in ALLAH, IN YAHWEH...and everything HE represents...

But this is irregardless/irrelevant to the topic. With all due respect...let's also respect the others in their beliefs.

Gay behaviour is not normal social behaviour. It has always been accepted by society to a certain extent, but it should not be sanctioned by allowing/legalising gay marriages. Marriage is intended to be a loving union between a man and a woman, the object being to produce offspring and raise them. In a gay marriage neither partner can conceive offspring, children adopted by such couples are going to grow up very confused and potentially become very disturbed, simply because most of their friends have a female mum and a male dad! This is another case of political correctness gone mad, mad, mad! Gays exist and I accept that, but I don't want to fraternise with them and I don't want my children to fraternise with them. I'm sure most rational parents can relate to this.

because I would like to know why "they" aren't considered NORMAL from your point of view...

And please refrain from citing from the Koran/Bible or anything religious coz as I am a non-MUslim, WE may differ in this aspect.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

I MEAN "normal" people. The homosexuals are NOT

nice topic Azi.

Conraz.

See you later :)

as in we're supposed to be discussing about the LEGALITIES OF (SAME SEX) marriage...

NOT GOD...NOT who will burn in HELL...nor someone's CAREER, or what have you's...

Yeah..Go back again to Bonobo's, rumpel...i never said anything abt em, but u jus cant let go of em...LOL!!

LOL...no one's is talking abt making laws that will force 'normal' (u mean heterosexual) people to marry/live with same sex partners. If they did, it wud defenitely be worth revolting against.

They are talking abt allowing,legally, same sex ppl to be married. That doesnt bite me(or the place that I live in) at all, so why shud I protest.

Not allowing them to marry is not going to prevent them from loving each other or living together. SO, if that does not hurt anybody, what are you going to accomplish by deeming them illegal?

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

my pity is for all those who don't believe in HIM. Do you believe in God, Azi?

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

are you workin' for insurance claims?

_________________________________

Anybody has a lighter?

I want to make a fire in the Hell.

or something same, because your good in their tactics of quoting a phrase (and not the full context) and giving another meaning

a. "you misunderstood me", wow....you are making your presumptions!!!

b. "I am sorry Gypsy after telling her to BURN to hell", when and where did I said BURN to hell. BURN and GO are different word. and the way it was written and the way you imagine it, it's also different.

c. let me correct you a little, it should be "worse thAn a gay" not worst thEn gay. Back to school and study the proper usage of worse and worst.

d. "enlighten, not enlighted" I am referring to your post regarding the castle that you "burned" down (you're not an arsonist, aren't you)

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

"u mean jus like lungs shud not be used as smoking filters(which btw, is a matter of opinion, coz ppl hu smoke are as much human"

and those who choose to use their brain in the same manner of mis-cat's bonobos are free to do that....but...their (congo jungle) laws can not be applied on normal humans who believe in God

LOL...Rumpel...did not see u giving any answers to the first half of my post...go on boy...try again!!

u mean jus like lungs shud not be used as smoking filters(which btw, is a matter of opinion, coz ppl hu smoke are as much human as ppl hu dont) brain shud not be used to think beyond dogma!! Great thinking...Aristotle! Way to go!

As for relegions surviving centuries, so have virulent strains of plague, so has ignorance, so has lust, hate, greed and schizophrenia! Surviving centuries alone does not prove something is good.

"Abuse brain by living as a gay"- I donno abt living as a gay, so do tell me how it abuses the brain...lol..

n where I come from is strictly none of ur f***ing bizness! Hope you have enough sense to separate the topic of discussion from the person who discusses.

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

then the end of days have not yet come!

to yourself...PLEASE?

There's no country in the world where most of the citizens are "bastards".

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in the eyes of societies suffering from social diseases, because this is what homsexuality definitely lead to

anyone who don't believe in HIM, nowhere to go but.....

May God have mercy on all of you who don't believe in Him. I PITY YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

well Doha Girl/Gypsy I am not gonna specify a certain country but I assure you that any country in the world where adultry is legal (partners live legally together without marriage & have legal rights) and most of the citizens are bastards (they are born out of wedlock) (southland can get the meaning from dictionary.com), then such countries are sinking in social diseases & the society is corrupt. I am talking about ALL countries & ALL religions! (to be fair)

EVERY animal spieces practices homosexuality, it's a completely natural phenomenom.

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"Holy laws...amazing! Tell me then why are we given something called brains inside our cranial compartments if all we were supposed to do was follow some "Divine Law" like zombies?? Live in 21st century with something written some thousands of years back...not for me dude!! It insults my common sense.All the best to you n ur Holy Laws."

God also gives us lungs, but they should not be used as smoking filters. Do you understand now how God gave us brains?

If you want to abuse your brain by living as a gay in the 21st century and to deny the religions that have survived for thousands of years, then you must be coming originaly from the jungles of Congo, where mis-cat has clearly described such creatures:

"Homosexuality is not a social disease, nor does it defy nature. For those of you unaware there are a breed og chimps that live in the congo called the Bonobos that practise sex as a way of resolving issues, as well as for the hell of it they also practice homosexuality."

Dont worry, Gypsy.

The hell keys are with me and you're not allowed there.

Try UP!

Sorry dmighthysolomon I try to only be friend with people who don't think I'm going to burn in hell.

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You believe in God and think that a non-believer will burn in hell.

That is YOUR belief that Gypo is going to hell.

It is not my belief that Gypo or anyone else will end up in hell if they don't

a) believe in God

b) follow a particular relgious teaching

I just think it is one scary belief system that sees that people will end up in hell.

count me out...I won't ride that bus - it takes a wrong turn a plunges into hell

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

when she said she don't believe in God and God resides in heaven, where do you think she is heading? Saying "go to hell" is an expression to someone who is directly saying he or ahe don't believe in God. Check my post if there is any instance that it was said not as an expression.

Let us raise the discussion in a very intelligent (again, different interpretation of this word, up to you guys)level.

Gypsy, if you don't want my friendship, you won't be a lost to me. I want to gain a friend. It's your lost not mine!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

First : "you misunderstood me"

Second : you say "i am sorry Gypsy " after "you're telling her/him to burn in hell"

Third: you want to be "enlighted"

.

Ok:

1) i hate gays

2) you're worst then a gay.

_.________________________________________

Light travels faster than sound.

This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

As everyone who knows me, I'M PRO-GAY and though I'm not very well versed with the legalities and/or the religious aspects of this topic, however:

There are two kinds of marriage/wedding that I know of:

1. Legal/Civil - done by a judge, officials of the law/ the government

2. Church - done by a priest or pastor of whatever religion/church the couple belongs to

Church or Religion condemns SAME SEX MARRIAGE because it goes against GOD's teachings

The STATE/LAW however, may CONDONE it as the couple are two individuals who did not break any law and wants to practice/instill their HUMAN/LEGAL rights

Shouldn't there be a SEPARATION between the STATE/JUDICIARY(I don't know the exact term/word for it) and the CHURCH?

Not at all in any way.

Its

a) a factual answer about Freddie Mercury

b) my opinion of people who wish harm/insult others.

I wish them peace!

I won't go down to your level.

Dracula, sorry didn't catch your point, please enlighten me

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

You wish we would become friends but you're telling me to burn in hell? :S

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I can't imagine myself forgetting there is God even a split second. I believe, I breath because of God. The reason I still live, because He is merciful to me and my family.

We will and never will agree about this thing because you don't believe in God and I do.

From the time that I have my mind started to gain knowledge, everything was with and by God. If I have the ability to distinguish what is right and wrong, it's God-given. He gave me the freedom to choose and decide but His instruction is very clear..... choose or pick the right one and never experiment on what perceived to be right. We are human and prone to making mistakes but it did not give us the right to challenge God. In one click, God can take our life, this is my belief. If this is not your belief, you should worry, because you have a lot of companion in this thread alone and we'll only realize our present-day decision comes JUDGMENT DAY.

We may differ in opinion but hope we become friends in the true sense. Same with you, Paul and the others. Peace, men!!!!!!!!!!!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

Dracula created a very severe moral code for the citizens of Roumania.

You can guess what happened to anyone who broke the code. Thieves were impaled,even liars were impaled.

He killed gays and women who had affairs.

Supposedly he had one woman impaled because her husband's shirt was too short.

Hey, did I mention Vlad impaled the people on HUGE-AZZ spikes? :)

This is one solution for gays:

.

Dracula supposedly invited many beggars and other old,sick,and poor people to a banquet at his castle. When his guests had finished eating their meal and drinking a toast to him, Dracula asked them, "Would you like to be without cares, lacking nothing in this world?"

"Yes", they said enthusiastically.

So Dracula had the castle boarded up and set it on fire. Nobody made it out alive - and that was the end of their problems, as he had promised. "I did this so that no one will be poor in my realm," he said.

_________________________________________

Cheers,

Limited Dracula!

The late great Freddy Mercury was not Christian at all...and he never wore a cross. His family were Indian muslims from Zanzibar.

And aren't you a pleasant person wishing people would burn in hell!

Peace be upon you if this is how you think.

Quit Alcohol, drink Coke, Stay healthy!

Quit Pork, Long Live KFC n upsize fries, Stay Fit!

Somebody told me, "You are what you eat".Now I know why I'm nuts!!

...just copying and pasting quotes does not show your intelligence... you just become a theological ventriloquist.

FYI

1. There are contraceptions that contain no medicine and are known as barrier methods ie. the diaphram.

2. loads of people eat pork and we suffer no detrimental health effects - a far greater risk to health - food wise is eating junk food and eating too much. A huge amount of people globally are obese and unhealthy because of this.

3. if you are that anti-alcohol - fine...just stay away.

I little glass of red vimto has been proven again and again to actually be good for the health.

But I look around me and I don't see that Muslims live an espcially healthier life style than non-Muslims.