Syria bans niqab (face veil) in universities

Syria is ruled by a minority sect, so a secular educational system will grant their future ruling.In 1982, the Syrian regime had brutally crushed the revolt in Hama, perhaps the deadliest act by a gov against its own people in the ME.

The article is interesting brtiexpat for one of the comments. He disagrees with what she writes so accuses her of not being a real Muslim and from some small sect. So actually he proves her article that it is some men who it pressure on women to cover up. Very sad all these god imposters

Perhaps am mistaken, religion isn't my playground :)

If you don't mind explaining why the ban on face covering during pilgrimage ?

Syria, Tunisia , Egypt and others consider extremists a threat to the ruling systems because the radicals are winning the hearts and minds of the poor ignorant populace (majority).

I Agree with Britexpat, let them choose.

@ britexpat,you do admit it makes communication EXTREMELY difficult i presume?...so banning it @ an educational institute where it is essential that teacher & student be able to see & by extension understand each other completely doesn't seem misplaced @ all when seen in that context...

As for toeing the western/US line like some QL'ers have stated as the reason for this ban,seems ironic to me because Syria is one of those countries in the region that actually doesn't kowtow to 'big brother' USA...

Anyways,like with France,the same applies here,this is,at the end of the day,a government decision so it doesn't offer people the choice,they must follow the law of the land...

for me personally,i would say ban it at every educational institute as well as work place or any place that requires human interaction @ a professional level because there is no question that it is a HUGE hinderance to the smooth functioning of a strictly professional/platonic relationship,i think we can all agree on that...

Sorry, I didn't mean to intrude.. :O)

As far as the article is concerned, I feel that it is right wing leaning..

In Qatar, I worked with many ladies who wore the full Burqa. I must admit , it was not easy communicating, since all you had was the eyes and no body language or facial expressions to deal with.

Having said that, I would still support their right to wear it if they want - whatever their beliefs.

left winger (my guess) or the right winger? How do you line up with the article?

wo grew up in this part of the world. You are not a woman and from what I understand didn't grow up here in the region.

But thanks for the link.

From what I can see , all three are valid as per the beliefs and understanding of the individual..

By the way, as I have said "again and again, I am "Pro Choice"..

However, I found this interesting article which gives a different stance on the topic.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1296132/The-burka-empowering-women-You-mad-minister.html

The metal nose and check protector is that for modesty or to protect the gave when the husband beats them???

That is not what I was thinking.

I was thinking more like this, only shorter (to the waist):

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ClQQFGnEdSo/SrxO8ZzfgvI/AAAAAAAAAgs/_Lg0CdM30Z4/s400/khimar+face2.jpg

And I have seen a lot of women wearing this:

Are you saying is should be worn like this?:

but the material is not transparent, when you need to look at items in shops one has to lift the khimar slightly

many women in Gulf wear it

I have seen some women wearing what you describe and they don't seem to usually cover their faces but sometimes they have pinned on an extra piece of material to cover their nose and mouth it seems.

I believe it is all to do with the peoples' interpretation of the Arabic phrase from the Quran and also from various actions / happenings during the Prophet's time.

Many Muslims regard it to mean just covering the head. Others say that it means the face also including hands and feet. I know a few Muslims who believe that it does not even mean the head, but just means "cover her modesty"..

So, at the end of the day, we shoudl leave each to his own. After all, they will one day be answerable to God ...

not like headscarf which is tied up, few women wear them here when you need to look at items in shops they just lift it slightly.

Khimar covers only the head right?

So you are still not covering your face.

I have enough evidence and khimar is not niqab

the poison they are spreading.

If you are performing pilgrimage (hajj) , you aren't allowed to cover your face. Niqab is a traditional dress not an Islamic one. Syria is giving radical scholars another reason to spread their poison.

I feel you have something to say but are reluctant....

...

The peer pressure that some women have to suffer must be hard for them to go against. However I was wondering does the same pressures exist for Arab men? Do they need to protect their chastity and is going to Thailand on holiday frowned upon?

Edifis, dont jump into the box. Candies are sticky.

Today..I am having an orgy! I just opened a box of candies and I found each one naked inside it.

going to get until after you marry and unwrap the woman ;)

Or as Forest Gump would say: Women are like a box of chocolates. You never know how they are until you bite them ;)

gkrammer thats the corollary!

edifis I gathered than Arab men are like flies ;o)

:(

Arab Women are like candies!

I am saying since it is not required, then it is perfectly legitimate to create laws where wearing it in certain places is unacceptable. People have to make adjustments to move around and live in a society. The alternative is to move to a different society or stay home and protect yourself if you think showing your face is so harmful.

You guys are tarring all the women with the same brush. I am sure that just as there are those who wear it for cultural / societal reasons, there are also those who actually believe in it and wear it for a purpose..

do you say "smile" just before you take their picture?

:(

Spain's parliament is to debate a proposal that could lead to a ban on women in public spaces wearing the Islamic veil that reveals only their eyes, but the ruling Socialist Party has vowed to vote against the plan.

I actually saw that down on the farm on Friday...

There are always lots of volunteers around the place, mostly western or asian....

There was a Qatari family down looking at the animals and the lady's face wasn't covered...

Then a friend of mine arrived, who is Qatari and immediately the lady covered her face...

britexpat yes it is :o)

Is that the Lone Star State Flag I see before me ???

You know what's funny? A lot of local women won't mind if their face is being exposed to a non-qatari male but if a Qatari male is around they need to cover up. In one restaurant I entered as soon as I walked into the place a woman eating a meal with her husband quickly turned her face to the side, however she was ok with all the other Indian waiters in the restaurant seeing her without the veil! LOL! It just shows that even for some it is more to do with tradition/culture rather than religion.

What's written in Arabic, can someone translate?

posters like this for advertising.... OMG... thats terrible... they should fire the PR company;-P

Kidding... sorry, I know its isn't the place, it just shocked me to see that its openly advertised as... Wear niqaab or have the flies sitting on you.... How disguisting....

What choice do some girls have when shown those posters

when they are told by their parents , relatives, friends or colleagues that wearing niqaab is their only option to get married and preserve their chastity

Just that my post is not taken out of context ,some of my relatives do wear niqaab. Some were made to do so by their spouses and other by their own choice.

What I object is distorting the image of those who choose otherwise

and personally I find the first add to be pure hypocrisy. How can you say turning women into anonymous figures who must completely cover to avoid harassment is treating women like diamonds? It is more like a scare tactic. All women reserve our respect regardless of the way they are dressed.

Besides, as long as adult women are not free to travel alone for appropriate reasons (such as work), or leave the country without their father, brother or husband giving permission are they really being treated like something precious or rather someone who is incapable of making mature and sound decisions? I just think that metaphor is overworked and has lost its meaning.

in my opinion. There should be clear, open communication between students, as well as between students and faculty. Niqaab is a barrier to communication and identification. How would a professor keep track of student participation when there is more than one niqaab wearer in his class? How can he identify who is doing what in labs. I just don't think it has any place in the classroom. The girls that wear it should remove it upon entering the classroom.

Furthermore, as Genesis has noted (and even I have heard this from friends in the West, niqaab has been used increasingly to make a political-religious statement. I can see why a country concerned about secularity would want to ban it.

Lol, Fluffy, you don't know students if you don't know why the niqab is banned in classrooms! There have been instances of students taking tests for each other, girls hiding mobile phone equipment under their niqab and boys posing as girls. Just to name a few hi-jinks of those fun-loving kids.

Mandi

Your concerns are valid, but can be addressed quite easily. The University could use female "inspectors" to check the identity of the student. This is quite common in Saudi and at many airports, hospitals etc.

I personaly don't believe that niqab is a good thing, however, it should be left to the individual to choose!

I don't agree with it (I wouldn't wear niqab if I were a woman), but I do think it's a matter of CHOICE!

Thanks for making such good contributions to this thread and discussing this issue. It's rare we see anything like this anymore on qtarliving where everything slightly religious, political or cultural gets deletede quickly, but I digress...

No one addressed my points of being able to properly identify the students for class participation grades, lab experiments, quizzes and exams. Can anyone add this?

Islam has more sects than Christianity. The Prophet (Peace be upon Him) said, in authentic hadhith, that Islam will divide into 73 sects & only one will be upon the right path. So that's what we are witnessing today. Each sect believes they are upon the truth. The only way to ensure you are upon the right path is to follow the Quran & authentic Sunnah & beware of deviations & extremisms. Which is getting harder & harder now!

this is just an observation, one religion but different interpretation of the holy book. Difference in the interpretation is normal if you are different sects as common in the Christian religion (as they say). Does it mean that Islam also have different sects? Just asking?

Those who have such extreme ideologies should be kept in check though cos they can be very dangerous. Wearing niqaab should never be forced on anyone! Thats exactly what the Thalaiban did & we know what a nightmare they turned out.

Yes not every Muslim who believes it's obligatory is an extremist but its extremism when they like Genesis said treat those who don't in a lowly way & think that "only niqab will bring them salvation" A Muslima wearing a niqaab cannot think one who doesn't is to be looked down upon.

For the record I wear it too but I follow the view of Sheikh Al Abani..ie that its recommended but not a must. Syria maybe a majority Muslim country however it is governed by secular regimes. In any case if it is an all female Uni why do they need to wear niqaab or even hijab within the premises? In fact wearing niqaab when in an all women environment is extreme too. Allahu'alim..I just hope the Muslimas there are not burdened in any manner!

The goverment have never interfere in that, niqab was debated for years among intellects locally. I wish if locals just follow the opinion of al Qaradawi for instance . In stead of following the many Saudi scolars who oppose face revealing.

My problem with this ban is that some schools of thought believe that the face veil is a religious obligation. so for some women it is a must that they wear it. and not every Muslim who believes it's obligatory is an extremist. i know a woman who thinks covering everything (including the hands) is obligatory but she doesn't try and push her views onto others nor does she has a n extremist mindset. there are people who think people who wear the headscarf are extremist for thinking that you have to cover your hair.

me personally i wear the niqab but i don't think it's something obligatory. in fact i think in certain situations and jobs (like teaching and going through airports) the niqab shouldn't be worn.

but if you are a student in university i don't see the issue of wearing niqab. i have friends in the states who attend university wearing niqab. so why is it in a muslim country like syria is banning it.

sorry double post

"For years, many salafi scholars have demonized women who reveal their faces" That doesn't sound like Salafis more like some extremist Kawarij types..Subhanallah! Yeah I'm aware many of these extremists do label themselves "Salafi" but yuck! How far are they from the path of the Salaf?? I pity your sister & any Muslima who has to deal with such ideologies. The truth is yes the niqaab is much debated even among the scholars of the salaf mainly due to the interpretation of the verse in Surah Ahzab where Allah says "Its better for them" Some scholars take that to be that its obligatory for all Muslimas as it was for the wives of the Prophet. But you have great scholars of the past like Sheikh Al Abani who debated that its "better for you" means its simply a highly recommended act & not obligatory.

However to spread the message that "that only niqab will bring them salvation. And women without face veil are naked " Sounds very extreme & thalaiban like! I hope the govt. cracks down on such campaigners as they could pose serious security concerns!

baning is not a form of interfering???

Let me tell you a personal story happened to my sister, she's been constantly harassed by group of her colleagues to wear niqab . According to them she's like a meat in a butcher shop, exposed to all eyes!!! ( although she preserves full hijab and wears abbaya). They operate in groups, that's how they do it . Until they convince the girl that doesn't wear niqab to follow them. There are campaigns by those women in local Internet forums, schools, colleges, and workplace that niqab wearing is the only right way.

I'm not really against niqab, I just hate it when they enforce there lifestyle on everyone else.

If it's a personal choice as they claim, why spread those Preaching messages everywhere?

For years, many salafi scholars have demonized women who reveal their faces.b Any form of hijab trends was criticized. At the end , it's a women's choice as they claim.

Then why interfere in what women chooses to wear ?

if that is really the line of thinking, then they should not let them get out of the house and they will be completely be not seen by men.

Niqab is a political/religious statement. While it can be acceptable for certain women, going main stream with it is just too much. Not only in France or Syria , how many banks in Qatar employes niqabies?not only banks, many government entities prefer non-niqab in the workforce. If it was all main stream Islamic attire, why it's being debated for years now in the Arab world more than abroad ?

The Syrian made it clear that their education system is secular, and they will not cave in for the salafi cultural invasion. You've seen their brain washing banners , where they spread messages among young Muslim women that only niqab will bring them salvation. And women without face veil are naked and exposed for men instinct

Ok, Whats wrong in seeing someones face??

LOL@all,

for me, I saw France as a "Free country", ... When Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Turkey restrict freedom, I see it as something expected.

But in France, they go with "You can have any color of car as long as it's black"... You're free to do anything as long as you look just like us. :(

a girl her faced covered on a bus stop ,

a man on a bike stops and says : can i drop you sweetheart ?

girls replies : its me PAPA

If it's a female institution then then can wear only lingeries too!

Sorry for not claryfying, but that is what I meant :O)

britexpat if it is a female institution I see no point in wearing the face veil anyway, or head scarf for that matter. Women only wear it in the presence of men, so it shouldn't be an issue if it's all females. I don't know what universities in syria are like though, but I am presuming they are mixed.

remember that Syria's government has been strictly secular since Daddy Asad took power. Baby Boy Asad isn't doing that much different from Daddy's regime. I don't think this os one to blame on your Big Dog Bogeyman ;)

exexexpat

i'm sure, Mr. Asad want to have mercy on him, and erase the name of country from the list of axis of evil.

Fried...Cant agree more on that.

You can see the story is picked up by a number of different media sources.

Don't believe Yahoo, pick your preferred news source from the list.

http://www.google.com.qa/search?rlz=1C1GGGE_enQA366QA366&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=syria+bans+veil&safe=active

All BURQA discussions should be BANNED on QL.

A nice move to shake hand with western Allies.

btw why do we believe on Yahoo news???

As brit said, it is as usual, the fault of the West. Funny thing though, as the West is not the favourite place of many here,they still curry favour...strange.

Oh, I actually do not believe it is so, but others seem to . ;)

kbaisi said .. Get someone to check them ...

Ofcourse if it's a female only institution, then it shouldn't be an issue..

are taking quizzes and exams, britexpat? How do you make sure that the right student is conducting graded lab exercises and participating in class discussions?

Agree with you there.

I agree that teachers should not wear it, but I don't see the problem with students..

places where it is banned. It is not required. It presents security risks and identification problems. It has no place in a university classroom.

Interesting

I think the best solution would be to employ a female guard just to check who is behind the veil, even in Qatar in the past they had issues with men wearing niqab and going into girls schools/weddings and also committing crimes. Yes it will cost more to carry out such a thing and will be a nuisance for women who to choose to wear niqab but this is the only way to ensure nobody is wearing the veil as a mask to commit crimes.

the compulsory veil is to cover the head including hair, ears, neck up to your ankles and wrist with lose outfits.

removing the face veil is not an issue.

a furor, britexpat. But don't you think you are pushing it to call for one in Syria? After all, you neither hold citizenship there or have your ethic roots there.

It should be banned in all universities. How can you be sure it is the proper student taking quizzes and exams?

It's easier to be naughty behind the veil!

by banning niqab, world will become a safer place, naughtier place and happier place...its a great step in favor of world peace, humanity, identity, lovers

I'm hardly ever quiet..lol! I'm here..and did give my two cents =)

Khattak, I cannot see you from where I am presently!

TCOM & edifis.....You'll see me there & here. I am everywhere ;)

I am sure they will be quite.

They should :O)

BE what edifis mean is will the same people who commented against France will comment here

Have to wait and watch.

I agree with you partly..

Remember this ban is being implemented in Syria, which has a rich history of oppression of its peoples and infringement of their human rights...

Britex, there were huge protests when France banned the burqa, and rightly so. But when Syria bans the niqab, one gets the feeling that there won't be so much fuss as the muslims won't see it as opression or infringement of personal freedom etc. as the ban would have been put in place by fellow muslims.

It should create a furor because this is in a region where Islam is the main religion.

However, there is one major difference. France is a free society with equality for all. Syria is not!

Sultan Qaboos University in Oman banned the niqab in classrooms.

Mandi

This ban is nothing in comparison. An Egyptian friend informed us of how in Egypt too the niqaab is banned in some universities.And point to be noted Syria is by large governed by a secular regime & what with many other secular nations banning the niqaab its only natural they would follow in their footsteps.Specially as the article states the wearing of niqaab has also increased. Do wonder what progress & success they are hoping for by such bans. I mean when they know its going to affect the lives & studies of many Muslims. Ok well if its an all female uni then of cos there is no need of a niqaab within the premises.Either ways hope the best for the Muslims there. May Allah protect them from any further oppressions & discriminations. & thank God yet again we are in Qatar!

I wonder why this move should not create as much furore as that against a similar move by France?

I wonder if this is a move to curry favour with the West ?

Well they have not gone as far as Turkey a predominatly muslim country which bans the headscarf at University.

what else

A truly surprising move. I wonder what prompted them to do it ?

I wonder what good would it do to the world or humanity?