Step in the right direction?

Let us see if others agree with you

genderside is just despicable..

I don't see why the bride's family has to pay.

I think it should be the other way around. the bride's family is losing a possibly productive member so they should be compensated, and the groom is gaining a future mother for his children.

To the word Mahr. Some websites translated it to be like a " offering" or "gift" but as a Arab I think you may know better how it is translated.

However that still dosent change the conditions of Mahr and that the Prophet adviced people that Mahr of lesser value was more virtuose and that even something like teaching your wife the Quran can be accepted as Mahr.

Hence those ladies who look for the man who'll offer them the best Mahr are going against the teachings of the Prophet, and can then best be described as "gold diggers"

And I agree with smoke that its just pathetic really!

i was told that there are many unmarried Qatari women coz the grooms refuse to pay (expensive gifts) towards getting them. Thats really sad :P

described it well some how

is not described as a gift, Another word for Mahr in Arabic language is "Sadaq", "Sadaq" is derived from "Sidq", "Sidq" means truth, therefore Mahr means that man is serious to marry the woman.

The Mahr is an indication for the serious intension.

some definitions about Mahr:

The Mahr (Dowry)

The mahr (dowry) is something that is paid by the man to his wife. It is paid to the wife and to her only as an honor and a respect given to her and to show that he has a serious desire to marry her and is not simply entering into the marriage

here is the source:

http://www.islamswomen.com/marriage/fiqh_of_marriage_6.php

In my community/family nobody is allowed to take or give dowry. I will not take even a pin when I marry. And moreover my parents will boycott me if I took anything from the girl.

- indian myself

- the very concept of paying people to not do what should'nt be done anyways is questionable

- female infanticide is a deeply rooted problem

- this initiative, while noble, is bound to fail because:

- throwing money at the problem won't solve anything

- the basic cultural preference for boys over girls needs to be remedied

- 5000 rupees is a pittance of an amount to be any help at all..the equivalent of the cheapest mobile phone/fully loaded night out/and others you can think of..doesn't get anyone married in india

- some good points about the practical implementation aspect raised by other forum members

Sun, a lot of women do not think that way. Some women are not allowed by males to pursue an education that provides them with an earning opportunity. And yet other women are allowed to get an education, but then are not allowed to work.

When I was younger, I used to think dowry & greedy grooms are part of Indian culture only, but later on realized that dowry is part of all the affluent classes of the world where men believe in acquiring a ready made easy fortune without any hard work. Read Sir Charles Dickens' novel or meet those American guys whose university education totally depends on finding an earning wife. These are all one & same things. Greed is there in all human hearts in some or the other form & the weakest will always get exploited. Weakness may be physical or emotional.We cannot eliminate greed, but we can eliminate weakness.Why do women think that they need support to live their life? The whole problem & it's solution lies in this question & it's answer.

No AUH. You can only go so far when you have an 11 month old at home.

celebrating in DXB or AUH? might be in DXB for the Rugby sevens..:)

Nah at a doctors appointment Fatimah. Will be celebrating this weekend. :)

My cousin's wife said something similar to me and I told her providence is from Allah. In truth the Prophet said the lesser the value be the Mahr the better and I just wanted to stick to that advice.

That said I always joke with my daughter that she should accept a better Mahr!

Let me guess, you were out celebrating ?

And may she always bring you love and happiness, and be your wife both in this world and the next..Aameen!

Well this thread got interesting while I was gone. Thanks for all the info!

Throughout her life yes, but it needn't be materialistic, expensive or even tangible.

smoke cannot carry on discussion after more than 5 comments then the satan takes over him

FathimaH from an emotional point of view your Mahr seems fine but from a financial security point of view it has no value!

Sometimes in life you have to think with head not your heart to what may happen in the future!

Why are you on the warpath today?

Sorry for the hijack MM

ok n wat use is the gift at the time of divorce , it is the mahr which comes to the rescue of the women

Not always brother... Mahr is better described as a gift. Not always will it be a "security" in a worldly sense because if so why did the Prophet advice a man and woman to get married and the Mahr was that the man teaches the woman certain parts of the Quran which she didn't know.

Personally my Mahr was good enough for me cos I couldn't afford to buy all those books at that time! And in case my husband and I ever call it quits, May Allah protect us, I get to keep them all!

i know u dont understand english MAHR IS NOT DOWRY go recite 10 times

OH STFU baburao :P

mahr is a security like safe deposit for the wife

dowry is like gift or bribe, u cant compare both pls understand mahr doesnt mean dowry

So there is not "proper" explanation to Mahr, some say gift for family, some say gift for bride, the Quran say one thing the PEOPLE do something else. Where does this end?

In India, the dowry system still exists, with more people being educated, grooms and brides to be do not entertain this giving and receiving of dowry. Its actually illegal now. If anyone is demanding dowry they can be taking to court. But does that stop the brides family from giving a "gift" to their son in law? No it doesnt and its also accepted.

In other parts where people are still not educated enough this does go on just like everywhere else. Its the SAME thing and nothing you can say is going to make it any different.

Yes, Its wrong , but it happens. Rape is wrong, but it happens. Murder is wrong , but it happens.

We live in a strange world :O(

Babu, no, I am not aware of any. Annoyed, yes, for sure :P

nomerci have u come across males who r tortured by wife n mother in law

Tahsinmim, I thank you for the offer, I'll give it some thought.

What is widely accepted to be the probable reason of Mahr. But that's not really accurate. Because from the evidences from the hadiths there is no way the Prophet would advice a lady to accept her husband teaching her the Quran as Mahr if it was intended to keep her secure should the marriage go bad or the man dies.

Brit, ok, fine. But Torture? Is that really true? I mean you can be as archaic as you want...but torture?????

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that is wrong.

i think kerala is an exception they drown the person with GOLD

HELL no one demands gifts true..and not whole of India follows the dowry system. Get your facts straight.

"can somebody answer my question as to why those people are so cruel and nasty?"

A: Archaic and ingrained cultural practices. Lack of education, ignorance and inability to change..

u can drag that guy to the court if he doesnt pay up, mahr is the right of every women

In my traditional culture the bride is SUPPOSED to bring each and every house hold item to her husbands house. Sewing machine, pots and pans to needle and threads, which is then supposed to be displayed for all the family to see.

How is then giving "gifts" to the bride or her family in exchange for her not seen as bribe? How much of this actually will go to the bride if there is a divorce.

Fathima in your case what use are the books to you in case of a divorce? Will that financially support you as pointed out by the monkey?

Babu, that answer does not quite do it for me. Got a better one?

Btw....check the dinner thread from last night...I made gravy for you and you did not show...:P

Honestly it's hard to pinpoint an exact reason. But some families just practice this from generation to generation.And as I said it's practiced among all races and religions too.

And I can understand this Mahr thing, IF the money is really for the woman in case of divorce. I mean the laws about this are different in Muslim societies, and I have heard about women living in poverty because of divorce, as the ex does not pay up and nobody seems to make him do what he is supposed to do.

satan no merci they follow the satan

One dosen't demand gifts...a gift is given from one's own accord with how much he or she can afford.

Anyway, can somebody answer my question as to why those people are so cruel and nasty?

As teaching your wife the Quran if she doesn't know. At the time of the Prophet a Mahr was even as little as an iron ring. It's a gift...not dowry...and if it causes a burden upon the groom then such is not a virtuous Mahr.

One of em dowry demanding folks some books and you'll see the difference.

mahr is a security in case of divorce for the female

dowry is like bribe mone

How is this Mahr different from dowry? in dowry too its giving the groom a gift is it not? Even if its a pin.

But Mahr is different in technicalities than dowry. Mahr is a gift that a groom gives his bride at the time of marriage, and this can be worth as little or as much as the couple want. And it's to be given to the bride NOT her parents. The rulings and wisdom behind Mahr makes it unlike the dowry system you have now even among so called Muslim families, hence the confusion.

My Mahr was only my husband's collection of Islamic books. Whilst for me it is invaluable, you can hardly call it "buying" me!

I think its the same in the GCC....

BUT we are getting off topic :O)

Smoke That happens in the Tribal Areas of Pakistan and Neighbouring Afghanistan is certain areas! Basically where the Groom pays the Bride parents!

Well, if they actually want to behave like this..well, each to their own I guess...

And in some religion the guy is supposed to BUY the bride by giving money and other things to the girls.

NM I think its illegal, but everyone in the sub-continent follows it anyway! :( If one family can not satisfy your requirement then they just go and find another one that can!

And this stuff happens in certain places in India only or everywhere?

And why does the government allow such things? I mean if you all know about it, then surely the government does too?

..as would be to bring the guilty murderers to justice

Wow...that puts a completely different light on things....Scary stuff.

Why are those people so incredibly cruel? What is the reason? What has made them become like this???

Go do a search on the famous "burning of brides"...thankfully though now we are seeing a decrease in such atrocities specially among educated societies. Truly education is light in matters like this!

So the girls has to bring a car all the household furniture as a minimum?

It's sickening really at how rampant and unbidden the whole thing is. Check any matrimonial page in the news papers back in SL and you'll know what I mean.

Tahsinmim...they torture the girl? Dear God, what kind of a society are we talking about here???

If this is true, it is rather shocking...IMHO.

Fathimah my wife is as fair as they come true Viking Blood..:)

Fathimah, is this dowry system some sort of slavery?

I mean to me it sounds like that a girl is sold to another family :/

Oh and remember the girl MUST be fair !

Fatimah is that really true about dowry? I think I have been short changed, let me get on to my Father in-law today!

Well said. Being part of Indian parentage(before anyone jumps on me with the "what would you Lankans know about India," "mind your own business" blah blah) I am fully aware of this problem, and yes it has gone on far too long.

However I believe by paying the dowry people will not be able to irradiate the problem by its roots. I know even back in SL where the dowry system is rampant among all races, the demands range from cars, houses, cash, jewelry etc....all way above 5000RS

Education is key. It's better for governments to invest in educating children and making the bare essentials affordable for them, hence preventing parents from viewing any child as a burden. Parents need to be educated too. They need to realize that their daughters are equally able and capable to fend for themselves as sons in the future, as opposed to giving them in marriage to some loser shameless guy for money.

What is the point in depositing 5000 Rs when grooms are not available for less than 5,00,000 Rs (present dowry rate). This is simply a politically motivated stunt for turning black money into white. The only way to overcome this problem is to provide safe working environment & education to women. Charity never does any good to anyone.

"n then he will divert all to holocaust"

what "holocaust", babu?

I thought that we were discussing the killing of girls in India, in this topic...no?

Surely, if the money is in the girl's name , then it will help protect her from possible abuse and also give her confidence .

Dont bring Islam into this now. We are not interested in what Islam says about killing here.

The Indian government should take this as an example and follow them in doing something similar to motivate people not to kill girl infants.

In Islam saving one life is like if you save all.

In Islam killing one life is like if you kill all.

Islam encourages to live in peace and not kill for no reason, and before attacking Islam (for a specific type of people) please read the following:

1. Extraordinary Value of Human Life in The Qur`an

By: Dr. Ahmad Shafaat

http://islamicperspectives.com/tafsirofsurah5_32.html (This is only one page)

2. http://www.questionsonislam.com/aboutus

The thing is, just giving money may ensure the child lives to marriageable age, but it doesn't guarantee that they won't be abused.

vast majority of Indian living in rural areas, under the poverty line and not educated dont understand the value of having a girl child. They still see them as a burden when they come of marriage age. Who will marry their sons if there are no daughters available? Educating them is one solution.

On the flip side giving money for every girl child might not be such a good idea as well. Such a step will just motivate them to have more kids perhaps..increasing population.

tahsin now we r educating abt $ex in middle east then we will solve in india

is india too in the middle east

Also, will this, somehow, become a money making racket?

yes, theer are concerns. However, remember that it is only a community that has started this. If it saves one life, then it is a good thing..

What Smoke said.

One of the various issues the country is facing. It has 1/6th of the worlds population, ie. 1.3 billion. It takes time.

Was wondering all that myself Smoke. While I think the underlying sentiment and idea are honorable, I do wonder how it will be carried out...

Why should it be edited? Its happening in India for the Indian girl child, we expat Indians need to know and give our take on this.

However I'm never truly satisfied with anything India does when it comes to money matters. Will the families have easy access to the money when the time comes? Will the money actually reach their hands? What are the hidden terms and conditions or costs? Nothing is ever straight forward.

I don't see why non-indians wouldn't care. As a woman I think this is a great thing. Hopefully we will see less infanticide.

I am willing to sponsor if someone can provide the details!

Non-indians can contribute towards the fund :P

n then he will divert all to holocaust

we can discuss anything haji india pakistan nepal china or UAE

Babu

now please don't start a new argument about India-Pakistan

then wat is indian group for discussing pakistan topics ?

What happens if the family want to get their hands on the money prior to her marriage ?

its a good and positive thing abt a community .... i appreciate it..... though dont know which direction, section it shud go :-)

Do you have anything else than trying to find faults in other people's posts? get a life man

very interesting indeed and a positive step. A very good idea if you ask me.

wrong direction as posted in wrong section

tahsinmim...

posting something in the indian group, when you are not a member in that group, would be a step in the left direction

A good move by the community. Using a fixed deposit account in the name of the girl to ease the financial burden.

I'm not part of that group.