Respect for Norway!

"Islamist terrorists carried out three attacks on EU territory.Separatist groups, on the other hand, were responsiblefor 160 attacks, while left-wing and anarchist groupswere responsible for 45 attacks. One single-issue attackwas reported from Greece' how do you know this???  

"Sure, some ratings-hounds ran with the whole Muslim terrorist thing" Some??? They all fell into line

Frenchieman, that is not only my views, most of others from the side of my world will agree with me.  You will not understand until you become one.

You just lucky to be the safe one. I have muslim friends who live in Oslo.  They saw the negative impact of that incident.

Anyway, as I wrote before, everyone has right to throw their opinion.

Medan--I think you are looking too hard for a double standard and then misapplying the exceptions to the West as a whole.  Sure, some ratings-hounds ran with the whole Muslim terrorist thing, but let's face it, it's not like that's never happened before.  Besides, how often in the Arab world (and on QL for that matter) do people in the ME automatically assume everything is a Western plot?IMO Norway has handled this with a great deal of dignity.  I'm glad that they have decided NOT to give this guy a platform--sticking him in solitary confinement and keeping cameras out of the courtroom.  Best just ignore him--the bet punishment for a maniac like that.

Britexpat, try to understand the multi ethnics and nationals are living here. 

This is as an eye opener that most of the people (non-westerners) feel hurt for the "double standard" acts being given to one religion.  Contradict the fact that the terrorist/extremist/fundamentalist are exist in any of religion/faiths in this world.  The fact that western had treat other part of the world unfair.

The sensitifity is too high.  The wound is still bleeding. 

For Frenchiemen, called others "a bunch of ego-centric idiots" totally NOT ACCEPTABLE.  People has right to sound their opinions.  If you want to admire Norway you go ahead.

But others might not, as they have a background behind it. As I have my own.

Respect others and others will respect you.

TFS ..

Islamist terrorists carried out three attacks on EU territory.

Separatist groups, on the other hand, were responsible

for 160 attacks, while left-wing and anarchist groups

were responsible for 45 attacks. One single-issue attack

was reported from Greece.

Pity the thread has gone off track :O( 

Interesting...I would consider Islamists as right wing as Facists and National Socialists.  To me they are all right wing extremists.

It might be time for everyone with an interest in this debate to read the facts regarding terrorism in the EU.You might find some of the statistics quite surprising: https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/te-sat2011.pdf

Pilgram, U can't convince him, he's suffering with Neighborsphobia, and only Dr.Phil can cure , www.drphil.com 

Garadene what are you not understanding?  Immigrants are not the only people who are vulnerable to right wing extremists, as evidenced by Breivik, Timothy McVeigh and countless other's who have commited "home grown" acts of terrorism.  The right wing preys on the vulnerable of all classes and religions, it is not an issue that is strictly limited to immigrants and it's down right myopic to blame immigrants from the rise of the right wing.   In fact, blaming immigrants is what the right wing does!  So by blaming them you yourself have fallen into their trap.

completely agree with frenchieman post , posted at 25/07/2011 - 6:34pm, however one can clearly read and judge the first pseudo intellectual idiot  with the first comment at start of the thread. PS: RIP Getho Panther, i wish if U could listen me on Mon, 25/07/2011 - 3:19pm :(( 

Breivik warned Monday that 2 more cells of “our organization” were organized for further attacks. Is this his “Templars”? The name, of course, refers to the medieval order coming out of the Crusades.Breivik visited Malta, where the remnants of the real Knights Templar,having turned their resources over to the Knights of St. John the Hospitaller, had run a pirate mini-state for a few hundred years in the early modern period. Breivik, from a Protestant background, advocated a return to Catholicism, but not to the really-existing current church, rather to a pan-Christian revival of a Crusade theocracy.The Crusade, he insisted, was necessary because in ten years Muslims would be a majority in most of Europe and they were raping Christian girls. The fear of brown men raping Norwegian women is of course the ultimate in iconic racism, redolent of Jim Crow in the Old South.

I undersatnd gutter press when I see it. and when they start spewing crap like If only Breivik had read more mainstream newspapers and magazines he might not have been led to mass murder, i call it as I see it. 

Thank you for the update, Cabbage..

Which bit of that article did you not understand? 

When Extremism Learns to Blow things Up http://www.juancole.com/ White Christian Fundamentalist Terrorism in Norway http://www.juancole.com/2011/07/white-terrorism-in-norway.html 

He appears to be a complete and utter racist - but current thinking is he is not a nutter just an evil man- He has shown no compassion at all, smiled when he came out of court and shows no remorse.. He has admiited he has done it but he says he is not guilty of terrorism.  He thinks he is 'saving Europe' from Muslims.He is now due to appear in court again in 8 weeks - he will be in solitary for four of those weeks.Looking at him - he makes my skin crawl and I would go with his has some kind of mental illness - how anybody can blow up and gun down innocent children is beyond reason.It is now becomming clear why it was at first reported as terroists - he used the same tactics as some terror groups' i.e. distraction by a bomb then attack. 

How about this trash from our gutter press.http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/25/anders-behring-breivik-norway-extremists Who is it that promotes war, bigatory and rascism other than our glorifed media??

So, this evening the prime accused was to be presented in the court where he was supposed to reveal why he did it...any updates?

I agree - they are handling this tragedy with great dignity.Such a sad day.

A 'proper' thread on QatarLiving should be: How much salary do I need? Why do people here drive like idiots? Is wasta in Qatar corruption? Why does Q-Tel censor the Internet? How do laborers live in Qatar? Where can I find this or that? Should Qatar host the Tour de France? Who is Bin Hammam? Why is milk so expensive? Can everyone buy alcohol? Will the 2-year ban be reduced? How many good schools are here? And then there are the 'opinion' threads of QLers. Of course, you can start a thread saying: I think they should ban smoking in malls. But again, it should be malls in Qatar!

"They are examplary in the way they are dealing with their tragedy..well done!" spoken by an apologist for Bahraini terror

Actually the whole thing is irrelevant. Qatar has nothing to do with it. According to the latest actions of the mods, this thread should long have been deleted!

""the threat apart from right-wing fundamentalists (of all religions) comes from immigrants unable to integrate into their adopted society" where's your evidence for this?The London bombers example you give, did what they did because of UK's involvement in illegal unjust wars of Iraq and Afganistan. Using your line of thought, they were influnced and reacted to the actions and policies of Blair's right wing govt

I love how a thread gets started by britexpat, who expresses his admiration for how Norway has handled its recent tragedy, and then a bunch of ego-centric idiots get on the thread and start complaining that it is all about the mistreated Muslims of the world.  So even when it is not about them, it is still about them.  Get over yourselves.  Muslims have killed more fellow Muslims and Christians more fellow Christians than they ever have of each other.  How about appreciating the way Norway has handled the issue--without blaming before the facts were known for a change (a bad habit of virtually every country out there).

@ Pilgram,once again,you're not reading,"the threat apart from right-wing fundamentalists (of all religions) comes from immigrants unable to integrate into their adopted society & who are then prime targets for being brain-washed by these right-wing fundamentalists to carry out attacks against innocent people & property."...please point out where above i have mentioned a specific religion,quite the contrary,i said(OF ALL RELIGIONS)...when the right wing influences a vulnerable immigrant & manages to convince that immigrant of their ideaology,that immigrant becomes a part of that right wing,it's not rocket science...i ought to specify here that i'm not of the opinion that every immigrant ends up as a right-wing fundamentalist...

nosebleed...

Yeah like The King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out by the militant right-wing Zionist underground organization ( Irgun ) lead by the terrorist Menachem Begin on King Daivd Hotel in Jerusa;em  on 22 Jly 1946. The Terrorist attack sent Brirish flesh flying in every direction   it also claimed the life of another couple of dozens of inoocent people .the British Mandate  at that time leballed  the man and his group as  terrorists but a couple of years later Menachem becomes a high ranking offical in the Israelo gove ( i think he became the Prime Minster of Israel) and not only that he even gets to win a Noble Prize!!!! (( fire cracks ))) prehaps for his buchering of british soldiers you think? /: 

Agree completely Fubar.  It's a word that needs to disappear from the modern English language.  It's overused and minsunderstood. Unfortunately it does sell papers. :( 

I am more or less in agreement that this whole incident has revealed a massive double standard in the mainstream western press.  The guy has rarely been labelled a terrorist, whereas probably he would have been had he been Muslim.For me personally, I think the term terrorist is too subjective to be meaningful in a legal, criminal or linguistic context.  There is no agreed upon definition or reasoning for how or when the term should be applied.I just think it was a Bush/Cheney inspired word, to play up fear (terror, of course) in the minds of Americans.  The sooner the term is done away with, the better.As they say, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.  The man who founded and led the ANC's armed wing, coordinating guerilla warfare against the military, before blowing up post offices, courts, and eventually killing many citizens would probably be called a terrorist in modern usage.  And yet instead we look to Nelson Mandela as some sort of hero of peace. 

GP it's still on the front page of every paper I read today, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Valve.... u want the answer turn on the Telly in ur room and tell me how much of the fuss over Oslo attacks  has suddenly died down after the photo, nationality, religion and intentions of the man were made public compared to the first few hours ?    and you will know the answer! 

If the attacker had been Muslim it would have been a different response because it would have fed the right wing's "fears" of THE OTHER (cue ominous music).  We would be hearing nothing but right wing blathering about lax immigration and blatent Islamophobia. The same would have happend from the right wing Islamists if the attack had happened on a mosque or a Muslim summer camp.  Except then it would have been Islamophobia and the "EVIL WEST"But it didn't happen to either of those groups, it was a right wing "Christian" facist who hopefully opened Norways, and Europe's eyes, to the dangers of the right wing.

and those, who have itching for democracy, they must accept Hammas as elected representative of Palestinians.

no under the UN charter- people have a right to resist occupation. Under the definition given for terrorism - the US and Israel engage in terrorism.  And for all those who hail Norway's response - a good point was raised. Would the response have differed if he had been a muslim??  Oslo was a politically motivated terrorist attack by a fascist against a social democratic party. 

Ghetto Pantheri don't know, why i've the feeling, that soon, U will be kicked again by SMS Crowd from QL.

I know she did GP, and it's all equally pointless dick waving.

i  believe she wrote that in response to some a loose-mouthed kid ^_*

I wasn't blaming you GP, I was speaking to fatlawia.

fatlawia don't ask me ask  the ppl who came up with the this defintion, the Exford  English lang nerds ^_*... 

Pligram.. scroll upo 'n check who started it first! lol this thread was  on the oslo atacks untill, untill someone jumped in the line and  intentionally wrote something to divert  abusive and degarding about cerian  race,just running their mouth loose and dirty on other people's buiz just  like lil annoyin kids ...

Why does everything have to come down to 'THe West is worse" "The Middle East is worse"  For Christ's sake there's bad things in every country.  No place is perfect.   Why can't we actually discuss the issues at hand rather than turn it into a pointless blame game. 

ouch Fatlwia! that really hurt my brains! lol

I've always associated the word with people who belong to a group, because I don't see how an individual can really expect to be effective in using terror in the pursuit of political aims. But that's my definition as I really feel the word needs to be redefined as it's misused so much,  so as I said, feel free to disagree. As for the neo-Nazi thing, I heard he didn't actually belong to a group, but followed neo-Nazi websites among many other crackhead websites. 

Pligram.. Exford Dic :a person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims.the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.so let's take the word back to it's roots:The term "terrorism" comes from French terrorisme, from Latin: 'terror', "great fear", "dread",so terrorsim is to  use murder and other forms of violence to strike  great fear " dread" in the people. nothing about belonging to any specific gurrela-styled KKK-like- militants or Al-Qeda for that matter.the term Terrorist still appliesand Oh yeh, did they say he belonged to the white supermist Nazi groups! u know 'em skin-headed creakheads!

CRIMINAL?

I think, technically (and everyone can disagree with me) the complication in calling this guy a terrorist is that he's not actually a part of an organized group that uses terror as it's method of attack.  So in the actual meaning of the word he's not a terrorist, he's an extremist (which can imply a lone actor).  He is also a fundamentalist, as well, but many people can be fundamentalists and not extremists and terrorists, and terrorists and extremists might not be fundamentalists. As you can see the exact terminologies can get very confusing, so you'll have to forgive journalists, they aren't that smart to begin with. :P

Of course the Middle East, fatlawia. They have the right to elect their representative in the Middle East (they call them 'leader', and most of them are not elected). They have the right to demonstrate (just a few get killed by the security forces). They have the right to write in the press without censorship, and they can go to any website (except when Q-Tel interferes). And they observe the Human Rights, and there are no people living under inhumane conditions in the so advanced Middle East. And, yeah, the last 20 Nobel Prize Laureates all came from the Middle East. Right? 

Madam  at least you are a multi-linquist. The fact that you can speak and commnuicate in more than one language is more of a pluse. lotta folks in here can't do what you are  doing  and if anyone here thinks ur English  is not clear enough well tell them to get a life  lol. your English is prefect as far as i'm concerned.... i can  read and understand everything have write so no need to apologize

unimaginable! And Norway should be LOOK-UP because of such treatment to crminals? To good to be true. So what is the guarantee it wil not happen again?

Qatargas;  need to hear the latest proof about it, the story you mentioned was for 1973, things changed alot afterward. 

Xena & Gadarene :  I read the news perfectly well (forgive my poor English I guess) this open forum discussion, just trying to understand the discrimination.  After killings more than 90 people this guys called "Fundamentalist" not "Terrorist" I thought it might happened cause of the nationality.  No matter what he did, he killed innocent people whether the motive is for his beliefs or politics. Oh common everyone know the truth out there.  hey, no offend.

FlyingAce : forgive my English, not English native speaker.

An interesting observation by Glenn Grenwald: "Terrorism has no objective meaning and, at least in American political discourse, has come functionally to mean: violence committed by Muslims whom the West dislikes, no matter the cause or the target. Indeed, in many (though not all) media circles, discussion of the Oslo attack quickly morphed from this is Terrorism (when it was believed Muslims did it) to no,this isn't Terrorism, just extremism (once it became likely that Muslims didn't)."

medan, its not moslem, it is "Muslim"....Well Certainly Norway has delt this tragic incident with lot of courage.. But again Norway is the same place where Holy Book was Burned, and Cartoon were made of Prophet Mohommad (PBUH)... 

thank you Pligram, i guess u 'n i can accidentally  high 5  some days lool

GP, newspapers have been calling him a terrorist, and Christian terrorist at that. And you are correct, fundamentalist is not the right word to describe right wing groups that advocate terror, extremists or terrorists is.

Extna with all due respect, but the last time i looked up in a Dic the word Fundamentalist did not mean terrorsimFundamentalist:A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism. Terrorist:a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activitiesSo since the Attacker in Oslo was like  the media says is  religious and you rightly mentioned  a Christian who used employed terror as a political weapon and  actually killed  people by the dozen for his Christian belief, then don't you think the right word to use when talking about this is Terrorist? really some folks just like to beat around the bush!

Garadene, it's not just Muslim right wingers that prey on the disenfranchised and scared, other right wing groups do as well.   And there are disenfranchised, scared, outcasts in every spectrum of society, from every class, every race, every religion, not just immigrants. The real threat in Europe is from the right wing, ALL RIGHT WINGS, not from immigrants.

Read carefully Pilgram,i said,they are PRIME TARGETS for being brain washed,meaning,the right-wingers work on these guys,some fall for it,some are smart enough not to...as i mentioned as a very clear example,the London bombers were'nt among the smart lot & fell for it...have you watched the movie 4 lions? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1341167/ ...It won 5 awards including a BAFTA & got 14 nominations,it is an excellent film that potrays through dark humour what can & does go wrong when 2nd generation immigrants fall for the right-wing rhetoric,if you haven't watched it,i recommend you do,it states perfectly the point i'm trying to make here...

So Gadarene, the immigrants who are unable to fit in are being brain washed by right wing fundamentalists?

Winn that is only one experimental prison.  And I think the statistics speak for themselves, only 20% of criminals reoffend in Norway, compared to 50% to 60% in the UK.   I think he should be jailed for life, but if Norway says there system works, who am I too judge.

@ pilgram,not completely true,the threat apart from right-wing fundamentalists (of all religions) comes from immigrants unable to integrate into their adopted society & who are then prime targets for being brain-washed by these right-wing fundamentalists to carry out attacks against innocent people & property...(think July7 London bombers,all were immigrant's children & UK citizens.)...

They are examplary in the way they are dealing with their tragedy..well done! @ Winn: I just opened the link in the presence of my daughter(6yrs) and she acclaimed "I thought prison was a jail...I thought prison was an empty space!" Seriously is that what a prison in Norway is like?Oh wow...that's bad! Hope the killer's cell is not the same as the one in the pics and yes 21 years for such a demonic crime reads pathetic even if the cells be as bad as it gets! 

britmay be the media got a shut up call, when it was known that the terrorist was a follower of 11th century chritians knight templars. 

Let's hope that this incident makes the rest of Europe realize that the true threat comes from right wing extremists (of any religion) and not from immigrants, globalization or cultural change. 

@ medan,try reading a newspaper or listening to the news before posting mate...every single article in the papers & on TV very clearly states that the culprit is a CHRISITAN FUNDAMENTALIST,how much more clearer can they be???...

If you have been following the news, you will hear that he was a Christian and all over the news reports he was spoken about as a Christian Fundamentalist - so please don't make this into an Islam bashing thread, when it so clearly isn't.

What a Norwegian prison looks like...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277158/Halden-Prison-Inside-Norways-posh-new-jail.html

http://unfabulouzz.blogspot.com/2008/09/norwegian-prison.html

medan, I can assure you that the reactions would have been the same whether he was a Muslim or a Norwegian, and anyone being caught in Norway are Procecuted in Norway no matter the Nationality.  He is called nothing else than a Terrorist in Norwegian Newspapers.

(In 1973, Mossad Agents Killed an Arab in Lillehammer , Norway and they were Caught and Procecuted In Norway).

But what I dont like about Norway in this instance, is that the maximum sentence the guy could get under the Norwegian law is 21 years in prison!!! (Somebody please prove me wrong!!) That is way too much tolerance, IMHO.

I am so sorry for their lost.  It had been dealt with a remarkable way, as the shooter is Norwegian (a blonde and blue eyed) 

I am wondering how they gonna react if the shooter is a moslem???

If a non-muslim did it, it was not a bombastic news, and he DID NOT CALLED A TERRORIST but if muslim did it FOR SURE HE IS A TERRORIST  and the whole muslim in the world called the same, and he will brought into international court and one poor moslem country will be attacked as a solution to stop the terrorism ??

But hey!  This is an advance Europe country, its okay, dont call them terrorist, right guys?? Mmm what a strange WORLD !

The point i was trying to make is that they have handled themselves with dignity and control - staying true to their beliefs.

They have started asking questions, but havn't jumped up and down looking for someone to direct their anger at. 

If this happens in Arab world no one in West ever cares.  What has west ever done for Arabs? 

Because it is tragic.  If you want to discuss problems in other parts of the world, start a new thread.

Norway has dealt with this in a remarkable way and I salute them for being so so civlilized. I just wish other countries elsewhere would deal with their issues rationally as well..

PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD SUFFERING....NOT ONLY IN NORWAY....WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT ALL PPL/NATION/NATIONALITY !!! ALL ARE HUMAN BEINGS !!! WE TRY TO HELP OR TALK ABOUT ALL PPL !!!!

Norway is one among those countries which have domestic and international policies based on the principles of democracy, tolerance, justice and the rule of law and respect for human rights. During this time this they have been a sterling example to the international community.

What i found interesting and illuminating is that there was conformance of views accross the spectrum of political allegiance. They speak with one voice and most of all with concern for all.

spot on Brit,felt the same way myself,one would normally expect any society to go into complete defensive mode after a tragedy of such immense proportions but they are holding firm to their values of freedom,respect indeed...

You are so right Brit. A totally different level of understanding and coping with tragedy and a true lesson to the rest of the World.

It's a very advanced society, brit. Don't expect the same in the Middle East!