This really is going too far!
HOMOSEXUAL soldiers are to be paid travelling expenses so they can take part in Gay Pride marches – in uniform.
They have been told to apply for rail travel warrants or claim their car mileage for marches in London this Saturday and in Brighton next month.
Straight troops hit out at the move last night because they do not get the same privilege – even when they are going to see the REAL Queen.
A furious squaddie said: “A mate is off to London in his uniform to the Queen’s Garden Party but he will not be getting mileage to go. Fair, equal or what?”
It will be the first time Army and RAF gays have been allowed to march in uniform. Royal Navy sailors already can.
They have been ordered to change out of uniform before going to postmarch parties.
An RAF pilot stormed: “At first it was illegal to be a homosexual in the Forces, then it was OK but don’t flaunt it.
“Now it’s flaunt it and we’ll pay for you to attend parties in London and Brighton. I’m going to leave before they make it compulsory.”
The decision comes as men and women are being killed in underarmoured vehicles while serving in Afghanistan.
Another serviceman said: “I’m absolutely disgusted by this latest show of ‘PC gone mad’.
“I have no objection to what people do in their own time, but the taxpayer paying their travel expenses is ludicrous – especially as all we hear about in the services is cutbacks.
“The top brass have some explaining to do. It’s a very sorry state of affairs.”
Even a gay squaddie thought the ruling was unfair – and could lead to false claims.
He said: “Any straight guys wishing to have a p***-up in London should just sign up to go on the Gay Pride march.
“It’s a no-brainer – especially if you’re stationed in Scotland.
“A refusal of expenses claims would be a breach of the Sexual Orientation Discrimination Regulations.
It would also be a breach to stipulate that you have to be gay to go.
“A couple of years of processing 10,000 travel warrants should end this PC rubbish.”
The MoD told The Sun: “Personnel will be considered on duty for the uniformed parade element of the Gay Pride event.
“It is normal practice for personnel attending an event on duty to be able to claim for travel expenses.”
You could have it like this:
Country's health care system will offer procedures free of charge
updated 5:35 p.m. ET June 6, 2008
HAVANA - Cuba, in the latest change since President Raul Castro took office in February, has allowed doctors to perform sex change operations, a specialist at the National Center for Sex Education said on Friday.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25009830/
& Dmigtysolomon. I too think this has got a bit confusing, all that I was saying people just read a certain bit and gave comments, it was not until much latter in the thread that people picked up on the confusing bit, then gave their comments about that. Hope that makes sense. :)
And yes Brandylady, it's been lovely to have a decent conversation, without it getting out of hand. :)
the debate is over, the point made and no personal insults issued here.
A good end to a great debate even if some of us got the wrong end of the stick to begin with :)
and that's the whole point of having a debate or discussion, to scrutinize the subject in different perspective. If there is nothing "confusing" or worth arguing, what's the use of this forum?
We discussed it in matured ways, then it will be fine but going beyond that to the extent (of seemingly) of making personal tirades, that's what we are criticized at. And we acknowledged our mistakes one in a while!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Lima, I'm a journalist, and I KNOW the whole point of putting the actual facts at the bottom of the article was to create exactly this kind of reaction. I also know that there's usually no point in reading the bottom of the article cause USUALLY it's the least important information.
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yes I agree about the discrepancy, I was just merely saying people were posting without reading the whole story, and yes I have am guilty of doing that as well. Sometimes we read & see things we want to and block out anything we might disagree with :)
Gypsy, you could be right :)
No that's not what I was complaining about, I thought straight soldiers didn't get the same thing. Now that they do, there's nothing to talk about.
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many paragraphs quoting negative views of the recent move by the military will make all these views "stupidity" because of the last paragraph.
The mere fact that there were disarray or "sign" of discontent among the straight soldiers means there is really a discrepancy to talk about, and that's what we are giving a peace of our mind!!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
It's too daft to laugh at!
Why don't we blame what's really at fault here? Shoddy journalism!
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my point is, s few people only picked up on one thing, what a furious squaddie said & not read the bottom. I kept posting that ALL personnel were getting it but no one picked up on it until later in the thread.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
just accept it Mr. P.. you are used to it (taking the blame) anyway.. lol.. :D
[img_assist|nid=12867|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.
read the whole article and there is really a confusion as discussed by the majority posters.....
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
But im a big boy, i can take it :D
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
and check the title he used, does it implies something? Although the news, in my opinion, is to tackle the inequalities being rendered by the military hierarchy. Let's asked Brit, what his intention or what he meant when he chose that title?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
things, so might as well blame me for this as well....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
but non the less, it was there :)
Hey hey now. To be fair, it was at the bottom of the post.
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like a lot of people you only picked up on one thing and not read all of the post.
so it is your fault then Mr. Paul.. for this topic.. :D
[img_assist|nid=12867|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.
will be.....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
that is what I've been saying all along.
as is the Norm here on QL.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
which is which? I don't know how you define stupidity and respectfullness to ones' view and opinion.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
sorry Mr Paul, may we stupid people humbly apologise ;)
Great. So no big deal then.
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“It is normal practice for personnel attending an event on duty to be able to claim for travel expenses.”
So ANYONE on duty can claim...Everyone got that ?
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
AHHHHH I see attending a parade in uniform! Oh so it's definitely a PR move to try to attract recruits!
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wasn't it a gay right activist affair? Maybe it will answer the question whether this was part of gay activists' move or not?
But I agree that if the payment can be awarded to these homo soldiers, then the straight one should be entitled to it.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
one squaddie saying his mate is attending the Queens garden party but not getting expenses and at the end the armed forces saying it is normal practice to pay travelling expenses, who do you believe,
after all, you don't turn down the Queens invite because you cant afford the travel do you??
but I don't think the gays were "singled out", the MOD were just saying they too could claim for the travel warrant if they attended a parade in uniform.
gay servicemen service who?
"The army came out in style this weekend when it launched a recruitment drive aimed at tempting more gays, lesbians, transvestites and even transsexuals into the ranks.
It set up a recruitment stall at the Gay Pride festival in Manchester, backing its new-found commitment to homosexual rights by sending 10 gay and lesbian soldiers in combat trousers and tight T-shirts to join thousands of marchers on a five-mile parade through the city. "
(The full article..http://www.rense.com/general67/oeo.htm)
And yes Lima, people are not reading the last sentence !
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
so they have Straight & Bending Soldiers in the Army :)
Ok then, if all soldiers get it, then so should gay servicemen. But if that's the case why is the guy at the beginning saying they don't get it. I'm confused.
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Yes it does, but people seem to be missing what the last sentence says.
My comments was in general..
lately the gay rights issues have come more to the fore..
Are governments being forced / coerced into taking these actions or is it done in the cause of fairness and justice?
thats what it should be all for one and one for all, everyone having the same treatment.
Ok, the article is confusing, because at the beginning the straight soldiers are saying they DON'T get that privilege.
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Pay should be for duty and the service rendered. Fullstop.This is really bending over backwards I would say...
...If you drink, don't park; accidents cause people...
That is the point, personnel can get travel warrants to travel to a parade, now it's just been extended to ALL. I cannot see what the problem is?
Whats with all these gay threads going around? Is this some kinda gay month or something??? But i thought it was last month!!!
I dream of a better tomorrow where Chickens can cross the Road without having their motives questioned - Unknown
they fight and die the same way straight soldiers do, they train and work the same so they should never be singled out, either for privilages or for ridicule.
Just intergrated and accepted, losing the gay label along the way, somewhere in the far distant future.
Are they? this is what I'm wondering britexpat, it doesn't say in the article that this came from a request by gay rights activists, rather, from my point of view it's some PR move by the military to take eyes away from Afghanistan and Iraq.
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I will pay the costs of the trip if you promise to wear the white Wren's uniform with extra long heels..:)
on a serious note:
Why are the gays beginning to "punch above their weight" as far as exposure and rights issues are concerned ?
to the discretion of the superior or court or whoever. It should be treated by the straight one in a positive manner, how?, they can now asked for the same privilege as given to the homosexual soldiers.
It will sure be a BIG headache to the military organization since the bulk of their personnel are the straight one
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Either, the Forces pays expenses to ALL people, for whatever their reason for travelling, or it doesnt pay anything. Yer cant pay the Gays and not the straights,....Simple as that.
Gay marriage doesnt come into this topic at all.
Plus, when all is said and done, Gay or Straight, these people are ready to lay down their lives for their country to protect its rights and values.So before any one slags off the gays, they are willing to sacrifice everything....ARE YOU ?
Thats the trouble these days, too many Armchair warriors !!!!
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
that they were singled out and this goes against gay rights, they don't want to be singled out, just accepted and intergrated without all the fuss and trumpet blowing.
What is good for one should be good for all and that is the solution.
Legalization of gay marriage was not special, it was extending civil rights that already existed.
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“It is normal practice for personnel attending an event on duty to be able to claim for travel expenses.”
So should they not be able to claim a travel warrant?. If no other personnel get it, I agree it's ludicrous that Gay personnel should get it.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I'm not quite familiar with the history of this ruling but suffice to understand that this is a matter of rights by this "special" group of soldiers. Yes, you are right, this is a special treatment, but was the legalization of gay marriage can also be treated as "special".
It even mentioned in the thread the "prevailing" demoralization among the straight ones regarding the "special" payment of travel expenses even mentioning that at first, they recognize the homosexual soldiers, then so and so...
Recognition is the same argument I accepted before but going beyond that is as what Brit said "going too far!"
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
but to highlight the fact that they are paying them and the reason why is just drawing attention to so called equal rights and the flaws in it's progression.
I for one, agree that gay or straight we should all be equal but for some this sadly will never be the case.
No, if other people get paid leave to go to these types of things, then so should they, if they don't, then they shouldn't. Simple as that. The goal of gay rights is for homosexuals to be treated the same as everyone else, not specially.
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First of all, there's no sign the gay rights activists even asked for this. Secondly, as they said, nobody gets this so it isn't actually a civil right (unlike marriage) so it's simply special treatment.
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then its public relations gone mad.
Now they find themselves in the position of having to argue the case with heterosexual troops.
If they had offered the gay troops unpaid leave to attend the marches, maybe they could have saved themselves more embarrassment.
The issue is the fact they are paying for them to attend, money better spent elsewhere.
I find some parallelism regarding this action and the court who legalize gay marriage. Why a different perspective here compare to the other? Is this not a civil right being asked by this gay soldiers? If someone agree with gay marriage, then this move is also must be acceptable?, Just asking Paul and your comment Gypsy.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I think it has more to do with trying to make the Army look good by appealing to a supported cause. The British Armies looking pretty bad in the eyes of the public right now because of Iraq, so I think they are just trying to do a little PR.
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because of gay rights activists the forces are scared of any repercussions??
agree they are taking it a step too far though.
Well, everyone knows I'm a huge supporter of gay rights, but I'm not a supporter of giving people special treatment. Although....I'm off to Brighton pride next month...think the UK army would pay for me?
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Thankyou for bringing some sanity to the thread..
I agree totally. It seems that the Armed forces are "bending over backwards" to accomodate the PC brigade and the gay rights advocates.
"Is anything worn underneath the Kilt ?"
"Nah, its all in working order !"
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Ok, paying them to go back to march in pride parades is just stupid. I mean, I could understand if they were paying straight people to go march in straight parades but they aren't, so this is just stupid.
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'let the wind blow high,
let the wind blow low,
down the street in my kilt I go,
all the lassies shout hello!!!!
donald where's ya troosers"
"Bringing up the rear" will have a whole new meaning soon !
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
They have gone way overboard this time...
So whats the uniform..?
Scotsman's Kilts?.....yella ...go....go...go regimental.
Gays would love it!
PC brigade going mad.
Everyone should be able to claim Motor mileage allowance, Gay or straight.
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
attending an event on duty to be able to claim for travel expenses. Why not them? No different to others who get paid for attending events!
found them hilarious and they got away with it for soooo long:)
same as Dylan the dope smoking spaced out hare on Magic roundabout!!!
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
I believe they have to respect the uniform, to earn respect.
pykester
when you mentioned able seaman, am sorry but Captain Pugwash and his crew immediately sprung to mind,
seaman stains etc lol :)
I keep picturing the song YMCA..
Seriously though.. Another waste of taxpayer money..
Also, with uniforms, things could get awkward..
I mean what if "an able seaman" met an "Gunners mate, second class". Who would have "superiority"
Where the troops are camping it up on the parade square....
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NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
the idea of servicemen marching in a gay pride rally doesn't worry me one bit, each to their own as I always say but to use money better spent on arms to protect our fighting troops is I agree taking things too far.