The Race to the White House/or Israel??!!!

Why the Jews back to Kirkuk?

By: Anwar Wajdi

(Story is commonplace in the Middle radio news bulletin this morning: Jewish Israelis of Iraqi origin and returning in large numbers to Iraq, stationed in Kirkuk in particular, where buying land five times the real price.)

This introductory paragraph, the gateway to an article by Jordanian writer creative, life Hwaik Attiya , In the newspaper the Jordanian Constitution, a few days ago. Then questions were raised, deep pain, I felt bitter, why Kirkuk?

Before I answer the question, we would like to point out that the news is nothing new, after the occupation of Iraq on April 9, April 2003, the flow of a group of Israeli Mossad elements to Iraq under the pretext of the Rafidain Company, and other companies with illusory. The number of first instalment 900 spy, has formed a special task force to implement the tasks of assassinations of Iraqi officials and dignitaries, political, military and media, scientific and judicial cooperation with the militia known as one of the Iraqi parties, long the world of 1000, an Iraqi specialist in one year. Turning (450 elements) of them, from the capital city of Baghdad to Kirkuk.

The Management Centre Alasiraelih Operations Task murders in the city of Kirkuk, currently in a house near the Kirkuk governorate building and includes among its members a number of Kurds who were the CIA had transferred from northern Iraq in 1996 to the island (Guam). Most members speak Arabic fluently in addition the Iraqi dialect of English. Israeli Party has intensified its efforts since the beginning of this year to buy land and homes and farms in Kirkuk and its environs, as well as continuing to carry out assassinations of political figures long Turkoman and Arab, Kurdish and bombed party headquarters of the Turkmen and Kurds in Kirkuk, with the aim of igniting ethnic discord. Watch for the Iraqi national resistance has acted cowardly killing 6 members of the elements in the city at the beginning of this year. These elements are still active in Kirkuk, Baghdad and Babil in addition to northern Iraq.

In any case, why Kirkuk?

Kirkuk is a painful memory in the memory of Jewish society, its relationship to the relatively straightforward Babylonian!! Having destroyed the Iraqi leader Nebuchadnezzar great victory, the southern state of Israel in 576 BC, leg 50 thousand Jewish captives in Iraq (Babylonian captivity), was among three Jewish prisoners from pleased (Daniel, Nostalgia and punitive). In return leader by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to victory over from Kirkuk, located on the strategic road convoys rising to the north, west and north (Turkey, Syria, and Palestine's current), the same path taken by the King of the Persians Dara and his army to fight in the Battle of Alexander the Great Arbajlo (Irbil current), which Macedonian Antsrfaita Iskandar. When he arrived Nebuchadnezzar important victory to the Kirkuk region (formerly called the Covenant Sumerian b, Park, a working very orderly). Found on the east side of the river (especially Sow) current three hills in relatively close proximity But, he scorned Jewish prisoners to bring sand and stones from nearby areas, and stockpiling of those hills, with the construction of Tel higher level among them, and thus were constructed castle Kirkuk. Following completion of construction, building a tunnel at the site, away from the door of the castle President (now called the Brick Confederation) about 300 meters. Prison where three prophets (Daniel, Nostalgia and punitive). Until take them to Babylon.

And respect for the status of prophets, the three have been built over a mosque Understairs (shrine prophets), in the last Abbasid, called the Prophet Daniel Mosque, known as Turkmen (Daniel Begmbr collectors) and was staying so far pillar tells the story of the city.

The mosque before young Aturkmaniat days of Idi Fitr and Adha, and they place Friday at its adornment in order to identify mothers searching for brides for their sons. As was accepted for Jews living in Kirkuk before the exodus to Palestine in 1952. The Jews were celebrating the Eid Mosque on the Jewish Kippur, which begins on October 6, October, with the front of the mosque imam, as a sign of religious tolerance that prevailed in the city, giraffes come from other Iraqi cities to mark the occasion, and then we were children standing outside the mosque Zlowhm to laugh at the clothes and Grunts near the wall of the mosque, it became apparent later that it links. There was another day, gathered outside the mosque near the walls and crying, and when I asked my grandmother one day Chezkil Why cry? She said: 'They say they remember the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem and the Prophet Daniel prison in this place!!! This is the story of Jews with Kirkuk as its reputation of the Senate of the cities several decades ago. You may need to document the historical story by specialists in history and effects, but serves as prophets in the three tunnel mosque, testifies to the correctness of a large part of the story. This is the first reason.

The second reason, as is known, this city of about 60% of Iraqi oil reserves, Iatbermn finest types of crude oil in the world, according to the plan, which was developed in the era of the former regime, the rehabilitation of oil Almnchaouat the need to invest 8 billion dollars to increase Production fields to the borders of 5 million barrels a day. As the doors of looting had opened wide thanks to the occupation in Iraq, the figure will rise to perhaps 16 or 24 billion dollars, and that is trying to Jews from now buy as much land as possible to convert to Las Vegas Middle East. That the amounts allocated to invest in oil Almnchaouat in this city, not percolated to the game with the Jews only, but has percolated for a game monsters as well.

The third reason is that 'Israel' made a presentation to the two leaders Barzani and Talabani Kurdish federal state protection from any danger, both from inside Iraq or from Turkey, Syria and Iran. According to the American plan - Israeli, the capital of Kirkuk will be a Kurdish state, therefore, where the Jewish presence has become a strategic necessity for its proximity to Turkey, Iran and Syria.

It has become clear that America invaded Iraq to protect Israel and make it the only superpower in the region, and stabilize her friends at the top authority in Baghdad, and obliterate the Arab identity of Iraq and the Islamic and severing all links with its history of ancient civilization, straining relations with neighboring countries without paying any regard for people's rights Iraqi and yet this is not the nationalities of us need to go into details for the richest or protect not heard of it was designed.

that needs help...help to rid the world of your type of pestilence which is a scourge on the humanity of this world...you are a dying breed...quite literally. You can keep to yourself those expired drugs that keep you blind from what is right in front of you yet can not see...yalla go ahead and wallow in the bliss that is your ignorance and intolerance for man...we are not hypnotized by your forked tongue and the evil oozing from your lips...yella go on...your time has passed Shaitan...off with you.

I'd take your advise....if I didn't know that you come from the same rotten swamp of ohmy (or does your swamp smells worse?)

nunca va a entender nada ese bobo

molae I think you need help - mental and educational

If they can't fix you in the hospital then please go and play on the cornishe road

you seem to have problems understanding a lot of things

- I took the blue pill and found myself alive in Qatar - wish I had taken the red and stayed in Europe

since you come from such a rotten swamp, you are blinded with hate because there are people who are so faithful & refuse to join your filth. Is this what drives you mad & full of rage & hatred?

genesis, who are you & what's your business? You sound silly! I'd be proud to be Iraqi

he is obviously not worth a moment of time or a wisp of air. He is entitled to what he deserves and he shall receive it...or should I say he already has.

it's only a matter of time & you'll get banned again. Oh my, just ignore him. He's one sad " middle age" Iraqi

ridiculous things and not expect everyone laugh at your pitiful self...is it not obvious to you that you are the one spitting out twisted and hateful vermin from your forked tongue? No, how can you when all your life you have been taught not to accept responsibility for your own situation...how can you start now. You poor pitiful fellow...may God have mercy on your soul because no one else will.

the words & character of a freak coming from an enviornment which is a swamp of AIDS, drugs, incest, male mothers, female fathers, bastard childred born out of wedlock, females of the family committing daily adultry...of course you'd end up with a twisted soul, hateful heart & damaged brain!

You are pathetic but thank God that the amount of faith here has created a shield against diseases like you.

Yalla come with more lies you pathetic victim.

that makes you come up with these fantacies or you simply enjoy lying mixed with ignorance & stupidity. You really should seek help if you can not see facts about the decent life of these societies.

I think the jealousy of coming from a rotten culture is blinding you so you start making stories about the things you wish to see in these decent countries.

You really need help man (if ever)!

Yalla continue with your lies/stories

because you come from such a rubbish world/family & it burns you to see decent societies & families. I understand why you feel jealous that the families in these countries know their parents and have no incest (the things you suffer from).

You can keep claiming that you know your parents but no one would necessarily believe you since these are facts about your culture

knowing that the one example, of many many more that I can give, would make you upset because these are things that are not spoken about in your imaginary world. How about all your friends that tell you how happy they are because they have just found out that their wives are two months pregnant, when miraculously they have not been home in nearly a year...they don't know any better nor would you...that's a lack of education. Or how about all the men that make absolute fools of themselves on the road chasing down women and try to pass their telephone numbers by throwing them on pieces of paper through the car windows (not going to mention the accidents they cause doing this every night). Or the women that pass on their numbers and photos via bluetooth at the malls to men. Heck I even had a friend that had to leave the mall once because he was being chased and harassed by these women...should I go on...please stop being a pretender and join the real world...lest you want me to give you more examples of how your imaginary world is as corrupt if not more corrupt than the real world. Try again genius.

your bubble...but unless all the women in abayas being dropped off at the front entrance to the mall by their husbands were not getting picked up by taxis at the the back entrance going off to do who knows what (does who's your daddy ring a bell?) then you might have had a leg to stand on but because you continue to deny the hypocrisies that abound in the imaginary world you live in then you will continue to be nothing more than a pest on the face of the earth the rest of us live on. You can try to pretend that you think your "situation" is perfect when, in fact, the reality is, as we all already know, the complete opposite of what you portray. Try again genius.

if you don't " suffer from genetic and mental anomalies" then who does?

You sure you know both your parents? The REAL ones? Are they both males? Both females? Do they consume the same expired drugs that you do? Or is it the pork? I am sure that both of them are not related....even to you!

I know that it is difficult for you to come from a culture were parents are not-known, both from the same sex, wives keep sleeping around, incest is normal, drugs & alcohol is consumed by all members of the family which is sinking in AIDS. All this would sure drive you nuts & dont know what to say

Thank God the Arab countries are still safe & well-guarded against diseases like you

boy you are so funny...of course I know my parents, but apparently that would surprise you. And guess what, they are not even related. What?...Blasphemous you say huh. Well sorry...that's how we roll and that is why I don't suffer from genetic and mental anomalies as you do. Try again genius.

you will always sound ignorant, stupid & lacking a lot of education. My butt is worth a hundred of your tiny brain!

As I said, we keep a decent society where we know our parents. Do you?

stupid you prove it by talking out your butt. Do you think the rest of us as stupid as you are? Of course you don't legalize nor publicize your proclivities...hence your hypocrisy. Hello!

ohmy you are still sounding very stupid...I think this has to do with the expired dope you are consuming.

Genocide or no genocide, at least we have no gay marriages, our kids are born within a wedlock and are not ba5tards, i.e they know both their parents, so someone like you sounds very silly when accusing other countries.

again you don't know what you are talking about. You have no idea what culture I come from and secondly what should the world think about the genocide that has been occurring in your native homeland for centuries? Duh...look before you leap genius.

if ppl suffer in their "personal hell" due to lack of education, I am sure the americans dont. They are so ignorant that they think they know everything! We have you as a solid example.

You have to realize that you come from a culture which was based on killing the original natives of the land; THE RED INDIANS

You are so funny...should I be the one to box you up and ship you back from whence you came due to the vast quantities of crapola that keep falling out your mouth? No, I think not...I'll just let you suffer in your own personal hell that is your feeble mind...your hypocritical self probably can not stand the fact that every time you say something ten people point out either how badly you are mistaken or how absolutely ridiculous your hypothesis sound to people that can actually think, have been educated, and have not been brainwashed by years of perverse upbringing. Yes, you are doomed to live the rest of your life in your own personal hell...too bad for you...not that I really care...bc we remember BHD and we won't forget...ever.

it's only that some mouths can only utter B.S and need to be boxed in order to help them to talk correctly

Molae you seem really frustrated and bitter--maybe you need a hug?

as an american, I dont think you know 5hit about what you are saying.

If there are women jailed for being raped in Arab countries, then for sure women get raped all the time all around the States & the police cant do anything about it. This is where I get my information, and I believe that the Americans are the last people who can talk about education & about rape/crime (your society is full of it)

RR

Are all the popes in the world, exactly like you? (can not be trusted, I mean?)

He's a politician who wants to become president!

I guess the speech was biased in favor of israel

Quit disturbing me with that bell, I'm watching Black Hawk Down, "THE MOVIE."

Is dinner served already?

Three things to remember when you get older:

Never pass a bathroom, Never waste a hard-on and Never trust the fart.

Just keep that on mind as you approach crepitude.

LOL,

I had to look up, the word "cheechako," that is a good one!

I like the idea of a not too big, fuzzy female, for those long and cold winters...:)

Three things to remember when you get older:

Never pass a bathroom, Never waste a hard-on and Never trust the fart.

Just keep that on mind as you approach crepitude.

The Arctic really isn't that bad Red_Pope....at least in the summer. And if you get a really big, fuzzy dog, its not bad in the winter either.

Also, the people up North cover each other's backs (and that it doesn't matter if you don't speak English, or are even an unprepared cheechako). Molae wouldn't like it because there wouldn't be enough violence.

You must be living a life full of "niggard" issues or you are just a dumb foul, "niggle" mouth person from the bush......

Three things to remember when you get older:

Never pass a bathroom, Never waste a hard-on and Never trust the fart.

Just keep that on mind as you approach crepitude.

I'm surprised that you call your country an Arab country. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the fact that it is actually in Africa. I thought you said that even you got educated...perhaps it's a good time to start. There is a distinction between being an Arabized country vs being an Arab country...even I as an American know that.

And by the way...no, a woman will not be definitely raped if she goes into the Bronx...please...where do you get such nonsense from? Have you ever been to the Bronx? Wouldn't be surprised though if you get raped there if you publicly speak what is on your feeble mind while in the Bronx.

"Many of us consider all your comments.. "

"us"..."us"...hmmmmmmm...are talking about popes? ppl with lousy english? or Arctic Round-Abouts?

However, we've seen that even with congress and the supposed checks and balances in plce a president and his band of neocons have hoodwinked and manipulated a nation and taken them into a war.

Nopw that the troops are committed , the old patriotism card is played to stop dissent.

Lisa, Well said,

I believe in the right of every nation to push their own agenda ahead, therefore we shouldn't blame the US for doing so, since they got the power to do so, I think any other nation would have done the same if they have the power, and it might be even worse.

If we agreed on the point that the US is ruling the world by using their power somehow, we hould look at the positive side as well, that the US is not being led by one person, as JMT, Gypsy and Britexpat stated, it's led by different people and the president himslef can't do anything without the blessing and the approvals of the congress and other commitees, what I mean that it would be worse if the world was controlled by a country which is led by a dictator, where this dictator will have the power to control the whole world by himself.

Back to the topic itself; it's not the Lobbies power which irritates me, it's just my bad feelings toward the Americans who get disappointed at the end, when all their hopes turn to some other lobbies agenda, whatever this lobby was, AIPAC, NACPAC, CAIR or NAAA.

And as you said Lisa, if the fighting parties in the world did not come to an agreement to stop the wars, our discussions will come to no result.

Molae,

Here is some of my lousy words to you,

Many of us consider all your comments: contemptible, despicable, pitiable, sorry and scurvy.

Which synonym will fit your personality?

All of the above.

Three things to remember when you get older:

Never pass a bathroom, Never waste a hard-on and Never trust the fart.

Just keep that on mind as you approach crepitude.

Sorry that I added to the hijacking of your thread. Thank you though for an interesting topic. I realized that we all come from different walks of life. Naturally our life experiences shape our views and opinions.

As for the Israeli lobbist in DC...I don't like it. I don't like any lobbist really. I do not agree with the Israeli policies nor do I agree with the Palestenians (Hamas and such) way of doing things. Until people learn to respect each other's differences (including religions) things will never change.

The negotiators can talk till they are blue in the face. It won't matter till the people of these two countries stand up and say enough!! The leaders on both sides have acted unjustly. Perhaps in our life time we will see this - God willing.

My opinions may be naive but that is how I feel. Also, most in Washington don't really trust Israel either...you know the term keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Molae,

Excuse me if I disagreed with you on this, I find no justification for violence for anyone.

And (even by mistake), this is too much man, human makes mistakes, you need to take it easy.

___________________________________________

"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I

is by not giving any chance to the aggressor, i.e never turn the other cheek. If an enemy fighter plane bombs a civilian home in your country (even by mistake) and kills a couple of civilians, do your best to kill at least a couple of their civilians inside their country. Keep doing this until your enemy/aggressor succumbs & breaks, and peace is restored!

FIGHT FIERCELY TO ACHIEVE PEACE

Hi Guys,

I just woke up, and got surprised of the number of comments so far, I spent the last hour reading them.

Although that this topic was hijacked in most of the comments, lol, but to be honest it made me happier to know that QLers are very well educated and has a great knowledge in many aspects, and worthy to discuss real life issues with.

I learned a lot from your comments, and I will keep learning, and thank you all for keeping such kind of polite and constructive conversation.

Let's just keep in mind that if someone is opposing another in opinion, doesn't mean that one of them is not educated at all, it's just different opinions, because this is the great mixture that makes our life worthy to live, differences in view points are the fuel for everyone to live another day.

And these diifference is why we are all here in QL, to discuss our thoughts, and share our opinions, and if we are all the same, we should ask Qatari to close this Forum now, because it will be useless and boring.

I don't wanna comment in any of the discussions that were posted before, but I wish to see some posts on how we can reach to the no-violence world, where peace and understanding is the only ruler in the universe.

Peace.

Exactly!!! What a sight I am LOL....

Half Cajun / Half German.. So you play the fiddle wearing a lederhosen..

you are dying all the time to show the americans that you are a more patriot american than they are

We cajuns do like our food. I may be small but I love my food. Thank God for good genes LOL. If you ever get down this way you will have to let me know. I know some of the good hole in the wall places with great gumbo and such.

Molae, who were you referring to as PM?

Always be proud of your German heritage. I am half German myself (half cajun - half German whoohoo) and very proud. I cannot help what those that came before me did. All I can do is try and make it better.

I thought you said good-bye

Airsupply....I get it.

I should have realized it. I know I am wasting my breath, but what the heck I didn't have anything better to do today. It was just nice to see a thread that would stimulate good conversation. Much better then the 2000 heartbreak threads as of late.

"the reason that some Americans don't know about other countries is because they don't care"

That's even worse!

"Most are hard working trying to take care of their families and enjoying their lives"

Aren't we all? Yet we still educate ourselves!

"enjoying their lives in a free democracy "

As I said, this means you believe in your system/ government/ politicians/ presidents, thus you will have to take all consequences!

."Where a woman can vote"

for the sake of voting even if she had to elect a lousy candidate?

"Where a woman can walk down a street...Where a woman if she is raped can get justice.."

Even in the Bronx? (she WILL be raped definitely)

"Where a young woman can go to school, get an education, have a career, marry whom she chooses if she chooses...speak her mind. Where a woman's opinion matters and counts."

Typical case in many Arabic countries!

"The fact that this does not happen in other countries.."

What? You gotta be kidding me!

"is just so confusing to us"

I am sure you get confused for the slightest thing which is different from your system!

"Americans look at people in these type of countries/cultures as ignorant and backwards."

Is this after, or before they realize that these countries exist?

"Just curious, I never did quite catch where you were actually from."

Do you think that matters? Is it fine with you if I tell you that I'm an arab & I consider all arab countries as mine?

(you need to ask Alexa! She posted about where I come from, earlier, then she deleted it)

...........molae!!...............really njoyed ur 2nd last reply..............

"He threatened a member with her family being bombed back home"

If you are not a liar you should prove your above statements but I am sure that you just lie when you have no more words to say :-P

..........i believe tht americanz by nature r good but the rulerz spoil the whole image............thtz the rezn why most of the people hate america..........whether itz bush or obama...........they all have the same mentality n will bring more wars in the name of Peace.............

I am just curious have you traveled to the states? If so who did you have conversations with?

You seem to think that all Americans are unintelligent idiots. Perhaps the reason that some Americans don't know about other countries is because they don't care. Most are hard working trying to take care of their families and enjoying their lives. Yes, enjoying their lives in a free democracy where they can come and go as they please. Where a woman if she is raped can get justice and not be put in jail or worse. Where a woman can vote and speak her mind. Where a woman's opinion matters and counts. Where a woman can walk down a street without her head being covered and not be called degrading names (happened to me many, many times in Saudi). Where a young woman can go to school, get an education, have a career, marry whom she chooses if she chooses. Where anyone can practice whatever Religion they want to without consequences. The fact that this does not happen in other countries is just so confusing to us. So you see many Americans look at people in these type of countries/cultures as ignorant and backwards.

I know you will have some snide comment to my words above. Let me save you the time. Yes, we have crime, we have young girls having children out of wedlock, yes, we have a high divorce rate. It's not perfect - I've said it before.

Just curious, I never did quite catch where you were actually from. Does everyone in your country know evertything there is to know about other countries?

Also, I am very thankful when I go to a foreign country and someone speaks English to me. I also thank them for that.

it's not bad to be a german so why try to be an american more than the americans themselves? have you developed some kind of complex?

do you see why I dont trust you, RR?

(I see you have been working on your lousy English, you....you..."North American Arctic Round-About")

"Things are notably different in this region... If a non-English-speaking Somalian came to my door, I would try to figure out why and wouldn't judge him/her if there was no ill intention"

I am sure you would....in this region!

Coz if you were in the States, you wouldn't know there exists a country called Sumalia.

This takes us back to your earlier comment:

"I'm am saddened that a 6-year-old would think she is "better than" someone because she speaks 2 languages and someone else only speaks 1"

I am saddened by that fact that there is a nation who thinks that there is no life beyound the East Coast & the West Coast! (which is not much different from the mentality of this little Arab girl)

In the North American continent they have a lot of pastoral grounds for your skills, I'll hire you, If you promised us, that you will stay there permanently.

I forgot to tell you this, The place is called; "The Arctic Circle", desolated, flat and very cold with man eating polar bears roaming around.

Three things to remember when you get older:

Never pass a bathroom, Never waste a hard-on and Never trust the fart.

Just keep that on mind as you approach crepitude.

You missed my point about equality. I meant that we should all see each other as humans despite color, religion or creed. Things are notably different in this region with many thinking they are "better than" someone else because of differences that only circumstance. If a non-English-speaking Somalian came to my door, I would try to figure out why and wouldn't judge him/her if there was no ill intention.

I must also say you are tenacious in your responses, and though I don't agree with you on most points, I appreciate you making your points anyway. This whole thread is a fascinating exchange.

LOL! sure sure. Way to avoid a question. :P

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

and stop posting wrong info, I might do

The words Hiroshima and Nagasaki are in your post aren't they. Nice to see you didn't answer my question.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

"In the US people can speak as many languages as they want and they are all EQUAL."

also in sumalia ppl can speak as many languages as they want and they are all equal!!!

Now what an American think about a non-english-speaking sumalian, and what a sumalian think about a non-sumalian-speaking american, that's another story

southland:

"*All 4 of these groups support the creation of a Palestinian state.

*All 4 of these groups support U.S. aid to the Palestinians so long as the aid is "used properly"

*All but 2 of these groups support the complete destruction of Israel."

non of the above theories are actually happenning!

Gypsy:

"I'm sure he'll respond to this with some comment about Nagasaki and Hiroshima"

all your posts are full of wrong info...including this one! I did not do as you cliamed!

Just look at the GCC growth since March 2003.

United Arab Emirates to name ambassador to Baghdad

By SAMEER N. YACOUB – 1 hour ago

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gkx-3oYeFwuWKCusr2jrojs98w8wD913VSV00

Well Southland, you know where most of that 14 trillion comes from right. Dubai, Doha and Kuwait. ;) The Gulf states are funding the war on Iraq whether they like it or no.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

I am aware of that, no doubt.

Campaign costs

Main article: Fundraising for the 2008 United States presidential election

The reported cost of campaigning for President has increased significantly in recent years. One source reported that if the costs for both Democratic and Republican campaigns are added together (for the Presidential primary election, general election, and the political conventions) the costs have more than doubled in only eight years ($448.9 million in 1996, $649.5 million in 2000, and $1.01 billion in 2004). In January 2007, Federal Election Commission Chairman Michael Toner estimated that the 2008 race will be a $1 billion election, and that to be taken seriously, a candidate needed to raise at least $100 million by the end of 2007.[62]

Although he has said that he will not be running for president, published reports indicate that billionaire and New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg has been considering a presidential bid with $1 billion of his own fortune to finance it.[63] Should Bloomberg decide to run as an independent, he would not need to campaign in the primary elections or participate in the conventions, greatly reducing both the necessary length and cost of his campaign.

With the increase in money, the public financing system funded by the presidential election campaign fund checkoff has not been used by many candidates. So far, John McCain,[64] Tom Tancredo,[65] John Edwards,[66] Chris Dodd,[67] and Joe Biden[68] have qualified for and elected to take public funds in the primary. Other major candidates have eschewed the low amount of spending permitted and have chosen not to participate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2008#Campaign_costs

Hence the phrase, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy".

It ain't cheap running a $14 trillion government

The amount of lobbies doesn't mean a lot Southland, it has more to do with their effort and the money they put into it. Although you do point out that all but 2 support the complete destruction of Israel, which will never ever happen.

Visit www.qatarhappening.com

Pro-Israel Lobby Groups

AIPAC- (America Israel Public Affairs Committee)

NACPAC- (National Action Committee)

JINSA- (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs)

CUFI- (Christians United for Israel "Christian AIPAC)

*These 4 groups actively advocate for Israel in congress

*All 4 of these groups support the creation of a Palestinian state.

*All 4 of these groups support U.S. aid to the Palestinians so long as the aid is "used properly"

Anti-Israel Lobby Groups

CAIR- (Council on American-Islamic Relations)

MPAC- (Muslim Public Affairs Council)

ADC- (American-Arab Anti Discrimination Committee)

Al-AWDA - (The Right of Return Coalition)

Atlanta Palestine Solidarity

ISM- (International Solidarity Movement)

AAPER - (American Association for Palestinian Equal Rights)

NAAA - (National Association of Arab Americans)

These does not include the powerful "arab oil lobbies"

*These 8 groups actively lobby congress against Israel

*All 8 of these groups support eliminating all U.S. aid to Israel

*All but 2 of these groups support the complete destruction of Israel.

http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/lobbygroups.html

Truth be told, it is an imperfect world. There are plenty of positives and negatives. The point is to be open-minded enough to take into consideration all sides and come to your own conclusion.

Yes where is the Arab lobby?? Where is the unified Middle East? How can you expect to have influence on the world stage if you can't even stop petty bickering amongst each other?

In case you all have noticed Molae can't answer any of these questions, all he can do is say the same things over and over, I'm sure he'll respond to this with some comment about Nagasaki and Hiroshima. ANSWER ME MOLAE WHY IS THEIR NO ARAB LOBBY??

The fact of this region, is while democracy is not perfect, at least there are fail safes to maintain the status quo should, say, neither party or president be elected, that's not the same as living in a region where the ruler/dictator dies and civil war ensues. What would happen if HH the Emir died tomorrow. I have loads of respect for Tamim, but he's a 26 year old boy who would have very big shoes to fill and a lot of people who'd like to see him out of them.

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I'm am saddened that a 6-year-old would think she is "better than" someone because she speaks 2 languages and someone else only speaks 1. In the US people can speak as many languages as they want and they are all EQUAL. As far as languages go, English was always stressed in America because a common language was needed among all the immigrants. There was also the effects of war on the language--German Americans stopped speaking German during WWII because Germany was the enemy.

The US is egocentric, but so is every other nation. That's life.

Thanks! I read it & I quote the below:

"Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder."

Doesn't this give you any hint about the 9/11 attacks?

Moalae.. and what is this example for? how knowing 1 extra language makes you "better" or "worse"??

brit..yeah...nowadays most of people know where canada is..for the immigration reason, as you mentioned..but not everybody.. like someone posted in other thread, that some 'new immigrant' couldn't locate canada on the map, and when someone showed it to him, he was quite surprised how big it was...again, not to mention the countries such as Mexico, Brazil, Chili, and others from SA...let alone having any clue about the systems and the lifestyles in these countries..

How about the USS Liberty attack in 1967?

http://www.gtr5.com/

I'll give you 1 small example:

I was once picking my little boy from school (in Cairo). I noticed an arab little girl (6 years old) having an argument in English with here blonde/western girl-friend. Then the mother pulled her little girl and ordered her (in arabic) to stop the argument and to apologize to her (western) girl-friend. The little arab girl exclaimed: "but we are better than them, mommy! We speak arabic & english, but they speak only english"

Try to beat the logic of this little girl with your "map" theory!

You'll be surprised. Saudis travel a lot and have access to a lot of information. When I was in Saudi, e Canadian embassy was quite active and thousands of expatriates based in Saudi have emigrated to Canada. Infact we used to joke that everyone we knew was going to Mississuaga. Are u from there :)

of their own everything... there is almost no place for the news from he other half of the world... I am sure not many saudis know a lot about canada...i am almost sure they hardly will be able to locate it on the map... let alone other countries of Central/South America

so do I need to take these ppl as a standard to my existance, history & civilization?

What's worse is, they keep brainwashing them with wrong info about the "rights" of the "zionists" in the Palestinean Arabic land, because it is their SO CALLED "promised land"....and stuff like that

wanna know the size of the conspiracy against Iraq (Babylon)? Read:

http://www.press.umich.edu/titleDetailDesc.do?id=136298

Agreed. They are lousy in public information or more likey, they don't want to know.

I remember being in the states and being amazed that most newspapers have local news and hardly anyting about the World.

"Ask the average American and he wouldn't probably know where Saudi Arabi is or the culture of the Arabs."

Some ppl think that my existance (or non-existance) depends on their information about me.

Most of the world speak more than 1 language while the majority of the Americans speak only English.

So are the Americans lousy in public information or does Saudi Arabia not exist?

You tend to find great satisfaction in insulting people and passing snide remarks. The mark of a person is to have a meaningful discussion without rudeness.

Arabs have a rich culture and heritage. We were howver discussing Arab influence in US politics. I think you will agree that the Americans only really "noticed" the Arabs after thy discovered oil and the US companies began prospecting in the region.

Ask the average American and he wouldn't probably know where Saudi Arabi is or the culture of the Arabs.

the 'coke' civilsation?? isn't that Colombia??

"It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid."

- George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

"Arabs have only been "around" for sixty or so years, whereas the Jews have been bankers , traders, loan sharks, businessmen for centuries."

There are thick things with pages & ink. They are called "books". Once you manage to read them, you will find how the arabs have educated the Europeans! Yes it is hard to swallow this fact but since you come from the "Coke" civilization, you will be able to swallow it!

inventors, scientists, musicians, artists,fabricants, manufacturers…endless…

Agreed. Arabs always thought by just being friendly with the USA , buying their arms etc , he would get preferential treatment. This has not been so. Remember that Arabs have only been "around" for sixty or so years, whereas the Jews have been bankers , traders, loan sharks, businessmen for centuries.

Molae: Nobody told the American people in their election manifesto that they wud attack this nation or that if they come to power. So how can u blame the people??

They might have looked at the particular party's policy on ,say, unemployment or economy in general or whtevr the individual was concerned abt and voted.

do u expect an average citizen to worry abt any lobby more than he worries abt his income and expenditure??

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

Yes, I will accept the results of my vote. No I am not happy when an official does not do what he/she says they will. However, the guy/gal I vote for may do what they said they would but will be outvoted by others in congress. That is the system I live in - not perfect but I'll live with it.

Have a good evening all. I am off to help the economy here in the states.

Lisa

quite bold claiming that you speak for millions...

i think you missed the point of my message. there are different kinds of democracy and while my canadian version might not work in the middle east, that does not mean that no version would.

you obviously did not attend the lecture by Prof. Esposito which was organized by Georgetown University. He conducted a large survey in the middle east, and the results were quite remarkable. It's a shame you did not attend, as the results of his research showed that the majority of arabs do not think like you. they may not like american foreign policy, but many have a lot of respect for several aspects of our western democracies.

___________________________________________

"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I

"Israel is the God's Country "

is it "the" or "THE"?

then in this case u'll have to accept & live with what you have chosen/elected.

And remember this simple rule of physics:

"for every action, there is a reaction"

your version of democracy simply doesnt work for millions like me. This is why our 2 different worlds will NEVER meet & peace will never prevail UNLESS justice is duely served!

RR, everytime I read your signature, I decide not to trust you!

Winn:

"You expect millions of citizens to think in same way and abandon voting in a collective conscience kinda thing??"

Not at all! I just want to highlight that it is totally wrong to claim that the American ppl are not to be blamed for the actions of their governments. THEY HAVE ELECTED THESE GOVERNMENTS.

I know I am not going to change your mind. I don't have a sit back and don't worry about it attitude. I refuse to do that. I will go out and vote and hope for the best. I think that the next time we have congressional elections there will be some changes. At least that is what I hope.

As for an arrogant American attitudes,(foreigners wanting visas) this is the truth whether you like it or not. I told you before, we are not a perfect country and we know that. However, I would rather be a citizen here then anywhere else on earth.

what you say makes sense, but i still think the middle east could do more collectively.

at the end of the day, money talks in DC and arabs have money. this region needs to step up and spend a little less time pointing the finger at everyone else.

at this point, arabs are partly responsible.

___________________________________________

"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I

winn - Remember "Safety First" :)

Molae said Israel is the God's Country :)

You are right. Howevr, there is he matter of perception. Israel is percieved as a pro American "democratic" state wich is sorrounded by people wishing to destroy it. Israel also plays on the "genocide" issue and lastly, there are numerous jews in prominent positions in the US government and industry.

The Arabs are percieved as nuveau riche, hedonistic, money grabbing and antiIsrael.

It will take many many years to change these perceptions.

Now you can tell that to oabazeed!

This is why I say: Never turn the other cheek!

This is why I say that if one party is acting as a terrorist then the other party should act even bloodier! There will be casualties in civilians in BOTH sides if one party is not going to stop & quit!

Peaceful riot?Lol...Molae...there are things called interim govts if there is a failure of a democratic system . Its not like in dictatorships where one person decides n all follows.

You expect millions of citizens to think in same way and abandon voting in a collective conscience kinda thing?? Happens only in dreams...wildest ones...we r talkin abt human beings here n not lemmings!!Gawd...which world r we talkin abt?

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

Got to love those very opinionated non-voters and non-citizens from other Regions of the Gulf, stating facts like they are experts in the matter.

Maybe they are experts in their own ecclesiastical teachings, definitely not in democracy.

Still, he is trying to live the dream of a free person, for that, I give him credit to recharge his phone for three minutes more.

Three things to remember when you get older:

Never pass a bathroom, Never waste a hard-on and Never trust the fart.

Just keep that on mind as you approach crepitude.

take a look at canadian elections over the last 30 years, and you will see new parties coming up and making an impact.

this is not to say that there are no serious flaws in our system, but the fact that american democracy has it's problems does not mean that democracy does not work.

___________________________________________

"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I

"I will fight for your right to believe what you want."

I think it was a French man who said this (some hundreds of years ago)

Same here: I also think that all your opinions & mentality is wrong

i agree they have way too much power in washington and that's a bad thing, but with all this oil money where is the arab lobby?

the middle east could fund their own lobby if they wanted to and create one with more money then any other lobby. so where are they?

it's easy to point fingers at everyone else, but once and awhile take a look at your own backyard.

___________________________________________

"Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day." Withnail & I

Exactly!!! We were in Saudi too and my husband worked with many, many people like that.

Winn- you worded it perfectly. You cannot elect someone on just one issue. There are too many variables that have to be considered. Yes, this election will be alot harder then in past years :/ but I will be there in November bright and early. I will cast my vote and hope for the best.

"So what should we do? If both of the candidates are lousy? Just not elect a president." I'd respect you for that. It would be a kind of a peaceful riot against some lousy system that needs to fail

"The biggest problem in the US is a two party system." This in itself, raises a lot of question marks about the American "democracy"

"Sitting home on my rear and not voting does no good" at least you'd have self-respect that you didnt chose such a lousy president and that no one can hold you resposible for the actions of your government, otherwise you have to take the consequences of your choice!

"I have a bigger problem with our congress right now then our president." then dont elect them!

"Just wondering, how many on this board that posts all of these negative comments are just waiting for that visa to get to the US?" This is another reason why americans are hated when they are ignorant. They have a complex that everybody is trying to get a visa to thier "Gardens of Eden"...

Molae: fine, u prefer a firm dictator to a lousy hypocratic dictator. But there are ppl hu prefer having a democratic govt to having any of these two.

n yes, the world is not a fair place, it has never been, it will never be. Simple truth.

Yeah Israel has flouted resolutions and nobody here has denied the existance of an Israel lobby. n ofcourse in democracy u might hav to choose between 2 lousy candidates, but what matters is YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE OR NOT TO CHOOSE"

n just beacuse someone's policy on israel lobby is not pro-Iraq/pro-huever does not make him a wrong choice. There might be quite a lot of other things he stands for which one can identify with!!

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

Your comment about the visa was spot on. In Saudi I worked with a guy who slated the USA every chance he got. Then when it came time for the US Visa lottery, he was the first to enter.

One more thing. I do not agree with your views or your opinions however, I will fight for your right to believe what you want. That is the beauty of a democracy - you are entitled to your own beliefs and opinions and voice them - even if they are wrong.

"Share with us, the kind of democracy you want to live with or within?"

Here is a news flash:

unfortunately true democracy does not exist in the world and I would respect a dictator who frankly admits it, admit that his country is not democratic, and do a good job in ruling the country with an iron fist, than a lousy hypocrate who acts democractic but nobody who elected him (if this was true) is happy with his policy!

So what should we do? If both of the candidates are lousy? Just not elect a president. Someone has to be elected.

The biggest problem in the US is a two party system. I'm more of an independent then a Democrat or Republican. However, there has never been an independent candidate that I agree with. So I have to choose.

Sitting home on my rear and not voting does no good. Too many people do that and then they complain. As Brit said, I would rather live in a democracy then anything else. Also, remember, the President does not hold all of the power. I have a bigger problem with our congress right now then our president. We have a check and balance system.

Your profile says Qatar, so I don't know where you are from. However, do you get a chance to choose your representatives? Like, I said earlier, we're not perfect, never claimed to be, and probably never will be. Just wondering, how many on this board that posts all of these negative comments are just waiting for that visa to get to the US?

"Long Live Isreal" shouted by Molae :)

"Why elect them? It is my civic duty to go and vote. I study the issues and the candidates. I will vote for the one that comes closest to my views and opinions. At least I can vote, I am thankful for that. Look at how many places in the world that don't allow that."

You elect lousy presidents because it is your right & duty to elect? What kind of wierd logic is this??? I mean I would respect ppl if they refrained from electing if the 2 candidates were lousy.

At least I can blame the "rulers" (not the ppl) in those countries that have no elections!

I am sure you are talking about grade 9,8,7,6..etc.

Please spare me the joke that you have more education! (but I assure you that there's a guy from Texas who'd appreciate a 10th grade education)

Oh sorry Molae, it was one of your other incarnations that was from Iraq. As for not being able to handle more then 10th grade history, Alas you misunderstand me, I'm proving you wrong with what I learned in the 10th grade, so far you've haven't presented me with anything worth using my other grades and degrees of knowledge.

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Most Western leaders do "what they feel is right" for their country. This sometimes involves making decisions which most of would believe immoral or unethical.

For instance, they talk about democracy, yet support leaderships in Egypt and Kuwait etc. They turn a blind eye to human rights abuses in Zimbabwe or female suppression in Saudi Arabia.

We as the electorate usualy turn a deaf ear because it does not directly affect us.

Having said all that. I would still rather live in a democracy, then NOT!

The Pineapple face is the famous nickname the Panamanians gave their former dictator MAnuel Antonio Noriega for all his bad pimples on his face.

Molae

Share with us, the kind of democracy you want to live with or within?

Not your political views....

Three things to remember when you get older:

Never pass a bathroom, Never waste a hard-on and Never trust the fart.

Just keep that on mind as you approach crepitude.

Well said!!!

I get the feeling that Molae is just out and out frustrated. That's part of the divide caused by the difference in ideologies.

In America we vote for someone who we hope is a good leader, but does not have the absolute say on any one issue concerning the nation because of separation of power.

In Countries where there is a true "ruler" (whether it be a miltary commander, emir, king, etc.) then no one is given a choice about who the leader is, and if they don't like it, the only way to correct it is through some bloody battle. On the other side of the coin, it can create a rabid loyalty which is not rational.

I can tell you I have no love of our current president, and I had no love of the president before him, but I do have a love of my freedom--the choice to vote or not to vote, to believe and practice my religion or cultural customs without someone killing me for it.

If someone has not had those options as part of their cultural history or their day-to-day lives, then it is very difficult to express just what those things mean without appearing arrogant. You cannot teach tolerance to someone who doesn't know what tolerance means.

Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. I know that things that were done were not right. However, don't you think that the powers that be at the time thought they were doing the right thing? Yes, they may have been wrong, but no one has a crystal ball.

Dictator of Panama? You mean that guy? Or Ortega once and now again leader of Nicaragua?

You need a new deck of dictator playing cards dude ;)

----------

ملة الكفر واحدة

اليهود والنصارى والملاحدة و الأشتراكيين

The sad fact is that th WEST knew what Saddam was abou nd hat he was doin, but thy tolerated it. He gassed his own people , the evidenc was sent to the Red Cross headquarters, but we gnored it.

The West supported Iraq in its war against Iran and Saddam continued his brutality.

When he was no longer of use to us, (as the case of Noriega from Nicaragua, Marcos from Philipines and to some extent The Shah of Iran) we took action to get rid of him.

Our leaders have a lot to answer for..

I'm sorry buddy but most of the things you posted here are incorrect. I'll just ignore your little insult at the end there.

Why elect them? It is my civic duty to go and vote. I study the issues and the candidates. I will vote for the one that comes closest to my views and opinions. At least I can vote, I am thankful for that. Look at how many places in the world that don't allow that.

Look, I am not saying that we are a perfect nation. We're not and we know we're not. However, at the end of the day I am proud to be an American. If people like yourself want to manipulate the facts to suit your agenda...so be it. I know the truth and yes, dear, I do know about world history.

On Israel:

The following is a list of United Nations resolutions that concern Israel only or bordering states (such as Lebanon).From 1967 to 1989 the UN Security Council passed 131 resolutions directly dealing with the Arab-Israeli conflict. Of the 131 resolutions passed, 43 could be considered neutral while the remaining 88 either criticized and opposed the actions of Israel or judged against its interests. Nearly half of the 88 resolutions against Israel "condemned", "censured" or "deplored" the member state or its actions. During this time, in the UN General Assembly, 429 resolutions against Israel were passed, and Israel was condemned 321 times. The United States has used its veto power to prevent resolutions concerning Israel from passing through the Security Council on 42 occasions since 1970.

Resolutions condemning Israel were not made under Chapter VII of the UN Charter, but rather under Chapter VI, which relates to the "Pacific Settlement of Disputes" between parties, and as such have no enforcement mechanisms and are generally considered to have no binding force under international law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

On Iraq:

On 8 November 2002, the Security Council passed Resolution 1441 by a unanimous 15 to 0 vote, which included Russia, China and France, and Arab countries, such as Syria. This gave this resolution wider support than even the 1990 Gulf War resolution. Although the Iraqi parliament voted against honoring the UN resolution, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein over-ruled them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1441

"I really wish our elected officilas will start doing what they were elected to do - represent the people of the US. This has not been done in a very long time"

Then maybe you should not elect them???!!!

"Molae, Lordoftherings...go back and study your history guys. You have been drinking the kool-aid way too long. Open your minds and start getting your information from different sources."

Well what can I say? You are American, so any person from any country, would probabley know more than you about the rest of the world!

This has got to be one of the most interesting threads on QL in a very long time.

I am not at all thrilled about this year's Presidential election. I would like a "none of the above" option.

As for Obazeed's comments - yes the Israelis do have a very powerful lobby here. As do so many others. I keep hoping that one day all lobbist will be thrown out of DC. I really wish our elected officilas will start doing what they were elected to do - represent the people of the US. This has not been done in a very long time. They all have their speical interest "groups" that they pander to. They need the support of these groups for money to run their campaigns. So very sad.

As for some of these comments...Molae, Lordoftherings...go back and study your history guys. You have been drinking the kool-aid way too long. Open your minds and start getting your information from different sources.

"Speaking of the UN. Just how many violations of UN resolutions was Saddam guilty of breaking, 17? How many Kurds/Shi'a, etc. killed by the 'Butcher of Baghdad'. Let's face it the man was no Nebuchadnezzar."

1.If we talk about UN resolution, then those "decent allied armies" should have attacked Israel decades ago when it refused, AND STILL REFUSING, to recognize UN resolutions!!!

2.I dont think Saddam killed more than 10% of the civilians who died in Heroshima & Nagazaki.

3.Iraq NEVER claimed to be a democratic country, and no one has claimed that Saddam was elected thru free elections. The shame is on the countries that claime to be "free & democratic", yet they kill civilians (for this reason or that)

"everyone on this board watching Gypsy pound you post after post"

Yeah man! Even though she can't handle more than 10th grade history! I wonder how do you see this pounding???!!!

"I am from Texas"

OK! This answers my above question!

"I'd be embarrassed if I was you...I would probably just disappear from here for good."

Maybe this what the guys in Texas do, put not me!

"I meant YOUR country Molae....Iraq"

Like in all your posts, you are wrong once again! I'm not from that great country, Iraq!

"I am kind of enjoying recalling my 10th grade history lessons"

I don't think you can handle more than 10th grade education!

Reminds me, I have to read this book.

Quite interesting Britxpat...reminds me of a quote...

Forgot who said this...

'The only force more ruthless and cynical thn the business of big politics is the politics of big business."

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

As we said Israel 'punches above its weight" in many areas and thus has influence..

The secret of Israel's high-tech success

From The Economist print edition

THIS week's initial public offering (IPO) by Saifun, an Israeli chip-design firm, on the NASDAQ exchange was one of the biggest flotations by an Israeli company in America for years. Saifun has developed a new, more compact form of flash memory, demand for which is booming as the storage capacity of mobile phones, music players and other portable devices increases. It has already licensed its technology to companies including Sony, Infineon and Fujitsu, and is expected to sign a deal with Samsung soon.

Having been valued by the IPO at $675m, Saifun now joins a list of globally successful Israeli technology firms such as Amdocs, Check Point and Comverse. Indeed, Israel is third only to America and Canada in the number of companies listed on NASDAQ, and the country attracts twice the number of venture-capital (VC) investments as the whole of Europe, according to Ed Mlavsky, a veteran of the Israeli technology industry and the chairman and founder of Gemini, a big Israeli VC fund that was one of the investors in Saifun. In 2003, 55% of Israel's exports were high technology, compared with the OECD average of 26%. Tech giants such as IBM, Motorola and Cisco have research centres in Israel, which is also where Intel developed its Centrino chip. Not bad for a country with a population of 6.9m. …

Tex...I think u r justified in being pessimistic abt tht...ther has been preemptive warnings against anyone tryin to mess with the veto powers.

Btw....aren't we hijacking this thread...we were supposed to debate abt Obama n Israel :-p

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and a flat tire.

That is interesting. I agree about the vetos. I just have very little hope that any of that will ever get fixed. I guess I'm kind of a pessimist when it comes to politics and governments.

Ya, they were still denying Korean women compensation for that when I was there 3 years ago.

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Vicious is a very mild word for Unit 731.

Not to mention about the "Comfort Women" camps!!

My psychiatrist told me I was crazy and I said I want a second opinion. He said okay, you're ugly too.

As an aside.. i don't blame the US for pushing its own agenda. Every country tries to do that.

My point was that the U.N can't do its job, unless the U.SW stops interfering..

My first option will be to do away with the U.N completely.

If not, then:

Move UN headquarters to a neutral country like Switzerland and

Take away the veto from the five permanent members. All UN countries must have equal voting rights.

Then lets see if the UN functions as it is supposed to.

Blah, yes sorry prisoner of war camps! :P

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Gypsy--do you mean Japanese prisoner of war camps?

Internment camps brings to mind the US camps for Japanese Americans during the war...

I am from Texas. Born and raised in a small country town outside of Dallas.

I do speak a little Spanish, although it is very rusty now because I rarely get to use it anymore.

I've been trying to relearn, but lately I hear alot more Arabic so I may just keep learning that for now.

I've heard of Unit 731, rough stuff. People don't realize just how vicious the Japanese were. I've had the fortunate/unfortunate?? opportunity to meet a woman who was tasked by Winston Churchill with interviewing all of the surviors of Japanese internment camps in WWII. She said she never left one interview without crying, and when she brought the papers to Churchill he read them, then put him in his filing cabinet and said that they could never let the people of Great Britain read of such atrocities. :S

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Just want to say I'm learning a lot by this thread, and glad it didn't get too far into the gutter. The exchange between Gypsy and Molae has been most telling....

I agree Southland, I wish I went to Gypsy's school!

Southland...Vietnam or no Vietnam communism was headed for collapse. I would defenitely agree tht its a great philosophy, but it was ne'r really followed in its true spirit. There was Stalinism, Leninism, Maoism n so on but they were not the wht the ideology visualised.

In his book "Perestroika", Gorbachev has given a wonderful sketch on how the fall of communism was a fait accompli even to its strongest supporters.

Abt use of atomic weapons, yeah the US beat the Japs to it, but there are arguments that the US used the weapon at a stage wer the war was as gud as won...well..i dont really know..

But given half a chance , I donot doubt it that the Germans /Japs wud hav used it against the US, if they cud.

Talking about atrocities I came upon something quite recently about something called Unit 731 during the Sino-Jap war in 1937. Guys, believe me, Do not search for info on it(tht is if u donno abt it already) unless u hav a strong stomach!!

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

LOL Southland, I was blessed to have the 4 x winner of the Best teacher in Atlantic Canada award as my history teacher. He was awesome! There wasn't a soul in the class who didn't love him and his class.

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Im pretty sure he was guilty of all of them under (ah God think back 6 years to Uni!) Section 19??? :S

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If you learned all of that in 10th grade, "Well, I'll be damned"! I wish I went to school there ;)

Very interesting comments.....

I just hope Allah was very Kareem and blessed Lionheart with extremely good looks as the forceps obviously slipped somewhere....

TexGary - I have been to many a country with UN missions... and the hot potato seems to get thrown to the US or then try to get UN action so the world won't condemn them for intervening... and then both get criticised for doing nothing....Tough one.

(surely you are not really from Texas...do you speak Spanish?)

Separation of powers was in the back of my mind when I said I didn't think of the US President as the "ruler" of the US. Whether Obama or McCain gets in really makes no difference--they have limited power bound by Congress and the Supreme Court. The pro-Israel lobby has to buy more than the president to be effective, as would the GCC.

Speaking of the UN. Just how many violations of UN resolutions was Saddam guilty of breaking, 17? How many Kurds/Shi'a, etc. killed by the 'Butcher of Baghdad'. Let's face it the man was no Nebuchadnezzar.

Thanks TexGary. I have to say I am kind of enjoying recalling my 10th grade history lessons. :)

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The problem with the Arab lobbies Southland, is the same problem that the Arabs are experiencing on a Global scale, they simply can't unify! If the Arab nations and the Arab lobbies joined they could easily turn the table on the US/Israel/Jewish lobby, however they simply can't work together enough to do it. It's not the US the Palestinians should be upset about, it should be the fact that their supposed Arab brothers can't or won't back them up.

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isn't it Molae, to have everyone on this board watching Gypsy pound you post after post.

I'd be embarrassed if I was you...I would probably just disappear from here for good.

I still have to question which came first, the chicken or the egg?

If the UN did its job well, perhaps the US wouldn't feel the need to run around playing international police.

I'm not saying I WANT the US to play that role. To the contrary, I've been stating that I wish we didn't. However, the UN is a major part of the problem in my opinion. If they would enforce the very policies they create with some kind of action and let countries know it isn't ok to commit atrocities like genocide, then perhaps the US government would not be so aggressive?

Since my comment about separation of powers was looked over, I'll bring it back by stating that the 'pro-Israel' lobby is not the only group on 'K street'. I guarantee you that there is plenty of Arab lobbies as well. With the latest global credit crises and the bailout from GCC sovereign wealth funds, their stock is rising in DC.

Avtually I meant YOUR country Molae, not the US. Iraq was the first and only nation to be condemned by the UN for it's un prompted invasion of Kuwait.

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TexGary!

Spot on again! That's what I said in my post. I just wish I had some ca$h to get one of those real 1950s pristine gas guzzlers ;) I hear they are all spoken for by various collectors.

This is why I said: "why do we need to give a damn about 3000 casualties in a couple of towers?" It's because this nation is the "one & only" as you said

Also the Soviets most certainly did not sit back and watch the US in Vietnam. It gave the Viet Cong money, arms and soliders.

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I agree that the U.N has no real teeth. however, the main problem is that the U.S ensures that it's own agenda is followed as much as possible, whilst brandishing the threat of Veto power if it isn't.

Also, the U.N head is usually the one who is supported by the U.S, otherwise he is not re-elected, as in the case of old boutros. By the way, how many had acually heard of "yankee Moon' before he was elected?

I've watched Gypsy tear your arguments to pieces post after post now. I have little doubt that adding even more logic to the battle against you will have any more effect. You're wrong and Gypsy has pointed that out for you time after time. I don't know that anyone could ever say anything to help you understand and thus, I won't even bother to try...

What's wrong with getting behind Simon Bolivar, instead of Ernesto Guevara?

I previously stated that motives weren't as important to me as results. I saw injustice in the way Afghanistan was being overrun by the Russians and the same thing in Kuwait. The REASON the US showed up in either situation isn't nearly as important to me as the fact that the right thing was done both times. However, in the case of Afghanistan, we didn't do nearly enough (as in nothing) after the war was over and it has shown to have been a very poor decision.

Ah come on Molae, you should be happy that your beloveded country was given the distinction of being the first (and only) nation to be condemned by the entire world!

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"How could we have sat by in 1992 and watched Kuwait be invaded and do nothing?"

in the same manner that you have been watch (and aiding) the Israeli invasion of Palestine...since decades!

in the same manner that we watched you invade Vietnam!

In the same manner that the world has watched the Soviets (then you) invade Afghanistan!

In the same way that the world has watched GB invade the Argentinean Falkland

Southland, actually Raul Castro is making HUGE strides in allowing more freedoms for Cubans. He's doing quite an admirable job so far.

No lionheart I have to idea what war is, please please do tell me.

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Well TexGary, in case of Afghanistan the US strategy was more to deal a crppling blow to USSR's territorial ambitions and thus tip the power balance more to their (US)favor. Yes, rebuilding was not taken care of and then Taliban rose out of the void thus created!!

As for Kuwait, dont u think it was the concern about Oil that made US go in rather than the right of Kuwaitis for their soverneigty?

Lol...u r right it did show "both sides of that conflict from the 'American' perspective"... :-p

But I really enjoyed the movie...Tom Hanks did a great job with tht role.

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

gypsy i need to ak u one thing ( do u know wut the real mean of war )

You have such a onesided view of history Molae. There's ample evidence and testimony from Scientists at the time that Japan and Germany were in an arms race with the US to be the first to develop nukes, the only reason Japan didn't use nukes on Pearl Harbour was because they hadn't been invented yet, but they did use the nastiess weapons they had available at the time (for no reason mind, as the US was set against entering the war).

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So what happens to the Middle East if they actually run out of oil and/or there is a breakthrough in alternative fuels? Maybe the burgeoning countries will do well to ween themselves off of the monarchies that are funded by these petro-dollars. Can Iraq actually be the future centerpiece in the ME once again if this scenario holds true?

The ultimate goal of the Vietnam war was to stop the spread of communism in SE Asia. Guess what? It worked.

As for the attempts on Castro's life? Let's just say that he has the Kennedy's in his corner. For over 10 years, you can celebrate Christmas in Cuba, go there on vacation and spend US dollars. Let's be real Castro was castrated when the USSR went bankrupt. Least we can do, is let them gradually switch back from the extreme, lest the Las Vegas Mafia moves back to Havana. The Yankees should've let him play baseball ;)

As to other wars, What is better, US, Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, USSR? Let's be honest here. The only thing the US is guilty of is being the most genteel on this list (and that's a good thing).

Remember, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - Lord Acton.

The strength of America is not so much in her democracy (she is the Republic of the United States of America after all) as in her separation of powers (it was her winning General George Washington from the Revolutionary War that turned down being crowned the new King of New England).

"Those that cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it." - George Santanyana

I couldn't agree more.

Only time will tell but right now the story on this doesn't look good. If we had only invested into the repair of Afghanistan in the 80s, who knows how history might be different. Sins of the past though...can't do much now but try to learn from them.

"You keep bringing up Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as if Japan or Germany wouldn't have done the same"

As long as people like you will keep on claiming that there will be "chaos" if the US did not act as the Int'l policeman, people like me will keep on reminding you of the BIGGEST chaos this "policeman" has caused.

We can not speculate about Japan's & Germany's intentions. We can only deal with the facts we have, and they are:

The Japanese pilots were brave enough to use conventional methods of war in Pearl Harbour, but the Americans were cowards & had to use nuclear bombs in order to achieve "victory" (was it)?

So the US is the ONLY country so far that has used nuclear weapons against humanity!

You actually bring up an interesting subject TexGary. For the most part (I would say with the exception of Afghanistan, which unfortunately led their backed fighters into becoming the Taliban) the US has always stuck around to help rebuild, Germany, Korea, Japan, etc. There are many reasons for this (mostly to establish military presence) but they do generally try and clean up their messes. This is one of the reasons they haven't pulled out of Iraq yet, they NEED to be there to clean up the mess they made.

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but I just think there is no way we could ever completely shut our doors.

How could we have sat by in 1992 and watched Kuwait be invaded and do nothing? Someone had to help (and many did). How could we have just sat by in the early 80s and watched Russia (our primary enemy at the time) walk into Afghanistan? That movie "Charlie Wilson's War" does a pretty good job showing both sides of that conflict from the American perspective. We helped tremendously by giving money and weapons to help the Afghans repel the Russians because we didn't want to fight them ourselves. However, we turned a blind eye to the difficulties the Afghans then faced rebuilding their country. The US was ok with spending a couple billion dollars to fight the fight, but was not willing to even spend one million to help rebuild schools.

all about politics and money i think...

all talk,nobody listen or does something useful...

ok,am not expert,but thats how i am looking at it...

"watch the chaos that ensues"???

No matter what the chaos, there can NEVER BE chaos more than what happened in Heroshima & Nagazaki!

but regardless of what the US does (or has done) the UN is like a parent that constantly scolds their child but never follows through.

If you tell your child to stop doing something or they will be punished and the child continues unpunished, you just taught them a valuable lesson. They can do what they want without fear.

The UN has no teeth.

The US should learn to back off some, but the UN has to learn to punish those that violate international agreements and standards. If the UN did a better job, perhaps the US wouldn't overstep their boundaries as much?

I guess that gets into a chicken/egg debate at this point. Would the UN be more effective if the US backed off, or would the US be less aggressive if the UN would enforce their own policies?

Lol...yeah Castro is still alive....a very interesting character I would say!!

638 ways!! from molluscs to exploding cigars...lol!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/02/19/castro.top10/index.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/aug/03/cuba.duncancampbell2

...jokes about Castro's apparent indestructibility have become commonplace in Cuba. One, recounted in the New Yorker this week, tells of him being given a present of a Galapagos turtle. Castro declines it after he learns that it is likely to live only 100 years. "That's the problem with pets," he says. "You get attached to them and then they die on you".

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

Well TexGary, the reason the UN doesn't work so well is because many countries (the US especially) refuse to follow any of it's suggestions. Sad, since it could have so much potential.

As to who should you vote for, I would say vote for who makes you feel safer. I would rather the situation stay the same for the next 4 years then get worse.

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Tex Gary: It would indeed be a sad day. but,frankly speaking,i feel US will be much better off if they did that. Why do they need to get their boys killed on somebody else's problem?( to put it in a 'pedestrian' sort of way)

But then the decision makers and the people who have a say with them have a lot of other factors in their mind. The mammoth armaments industry and Defence contractors for eg?

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

Well my only thing about a hit man is wellll Castro is still alive. :P

I don't think any of us will ever know the real reason the US went into Iraq a second time, there's no reason or excuse for it and the US will be feeling the effects of it for a long long time to come. After all it was just reported yesterday that sucide rates among soliders are the highest they've been since Vietnam.

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I've yet to see many conflicts where one side was totally right (although every country that helped Kuwait in 1992 was totally right, the US included).

Motives aren't always important to me. It is very rare in ANY country to have a leader that you agree with all of their policies. In the US, I always feel like I'm voting for the lesser of 2 evils. I'm only 36, but I haven't voted in a single election where I was truly excited about the person I was voting for. I always vote, but I'm just not happy with my options to choose from.

It would certainly help if the UN would do the job they are supposed to be doing.

Gyspy: Agree with you completely on what you said abt USSR. As for why Molae, did not mention it, I wouldnt venture into that. :-)

Yes. The whole world will ask "how they can sit around and watch people die."

But, Did their going in reduce the number of casualties in Vietnam/ Iraq than what was there before they went in?? I'm talking abt results here.

And if all that was required in Iraq was to replace a tyrant, they could hav done it by sending in a HIT squad/assasin( like they are said to have tried with Castro??) and i'm sure they are quite capable of doing that.

I Remember a talk by a professor who used to do guest lectures in some Brooklyn dept of Intl relations(dont remember which dept/uty xactly). It seems that the US govt was advised by the area experts (in some publicised reports) that they would have more of the local support if they did whatever they had to do without crossing Iraqi border.

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

The thing I dislike about these arguments TexGary is that I always end up defending actions that I don't neccesarily agree with myself. :P I mean should the US have gone into Iraq, no, should they have gone into Vietnam, no, Should they be so supportive of Israel, no. However, we say a lot of this stuff with hindsight. If the US had won in Iraq, Vietnam, etc, nobody would say a thing (Like no one brings up Korea).

I dont' know, I think it's just that I know enough about all of these situations to know how not one-sided or black and white they are. I always feel like arguing for the underdog I guess.

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You've made many good points but I'm afraid very few are getting through. One of the many reasons I generally don't even post in threads like this. There are just too many people everywhere that will hate the US no matter what is said or done.

Sometimes, I wish we would just close up shop and refuse to help anyone that asks for it. It would be a sad day when the US no longer offers help to those that need it but at the same time it would keep us out of the other more "controversial" conflicts as well.

We could be a little more non-threatening...just kind of neutral.

I spent the past year working in Toronto and really enjoyed it. That is a place with a very nice mix of different cultures and religions and they have very few problems there.

To clarify--there are just different ideologies at play in the regions, and I don't think either side does well enough to try to understand each other.

Winn, I do think all conflicts are power-struggles, but what the two sides equate with power are different. The US thinks the struggle is to correct things (peace) and the countries in the Middle East seem to be struggling to bring a dominant religion.

You keep bringing up Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as if Japan or Germany wouldn't have done the same thing to the US if they'd been just a few days quicker developing their bomb.

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Winn, in the case of the cold war it was about dominence, Russia was invading/funding/killing as many people if not more during the cold war as the USA was, why does Molae not mention Russian involvement?

As for just because their asked should they not go? No they don't have to go, but not going means the whole world asking how they can sit around and watch people die.

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It's not Islam that taught me this! It's the brutality of the enemies we have been facing for decades!

ALL religions say "an eye for an eye"...and they also encourage you to forgive WHEN YOU CAN!

Gypsy:jus because some faction asked US to step in, they dont necessarily have to send their boys, do they?

What has always prompted a US (or any other country for that matter) invasion of a territory, IMHO, has nevr been a genuine wish to correct things. Its all about power and control over some particular domain. Isnt tht obvious?

I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

I agree completely JMT, I think the US should bring every single one of their soliders home and sit back and watch the chaos that ensues.

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Just quick question:

are you sure Islam teach that "You should NEVER give the other cheek when you are slapped!" ??

Actually, I think the US should take its military back to its own borders, and send nothing more than a few diplomats to embassies around the globe. What the US is doing now under this president is totally unconstitutional and he should be impeached.

As Southland mentioned, however, it would be "damned if they do, damned if they don't" get involved in various conflicts.

Also, I don't think the "average American" of which I count myself, really understands the way nations and religions are "married" here in the Middle East. I know I didn't realize the extent of it (and probably still don't given my lack of knowledge on the whole history of the region). It is just a completely different way of thinking/living than the freedoms and separation of church/state that is practiced in North America.

I also notice Molae that you never mention Iraq's war against Iran, or when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Interesting that you mention some invading nations and not others.

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maybe 3 worldwar started in QL???

;-D

come on folks,peace please.

its weekend and time to enjoy,not to fight.

Of course they should, some of the most active peacekeeping countries are African and Asian nations. Granted the war in Ireland never came to full blown civil war, so there was no call for it, but peacekeepers have had to go into the former Yugoslavia and other nations.

If Iraq had ever had a force cabable or interested in helping other nations, then I'm sure it would have been invited to. Alas, they did not.

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Cubans did have nuclear weapons...Afghanis, Somalians, Iraqis and Vietnamese, you have to look at the issues invlovled...etc" (maybe Iraq had WMD???)

But aren't the other world countries (Iceland, Fiji, Malta, Brazil..etc) allowed to invade us to "help" us settle our "brotherly problems" when we "kill each other"

I actually prefer a Venezuellan Invasion.

On the same time, Iraq should have the right to ivade GB when the Protestants & Catholics have problems & are killing each other in Ireland

lionheart doesn't matter what you speak in, it will still be the same ignorant drivel.

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and i love it man but its coldddddddddddddddddddddd thats why i left ,,,,,,,,

i would like to use other lang to make u understand sorry my english is bad so it would be better if french arabic indian dutch not english

okay they stolen the world money oil and ++++++++++ to be that police lol it didnot came without blood look at Iraq so u will understand ( spend blood to get oil )

Lionheart what does what I do in Qatar and whether or not I speak French have to do with anything.

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lionheart,

I will tell you the present of Canada if you are interested,

Canada is very nice & peacefull place where all religions live in peace, Canada is open for everyone because Canada has no enimies basically.

This is the present, and since I'm living in the present I don't care about the past.

Let's not go into a side stories has nothing to do with the subject please.

and again I'm not in any side, I think that all to be blames for the current situation, so let's have some kind of a constructive conversation by being a neutral for one day.

The most logical thing is to find ways to stop the violence Molae. There is nothing more illogical in this world then reacting to violence with more violence, it just creates an unending cycle of violence.

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No it isn't the US's job to police the world, UNFORTUNATLY, people can't see to stop asking them to!

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iam wondreing how u are working in Qatar do u know how to speak french mis canadian

take Palestine for example, if you try to be peaceful with the israelis, make peace talks, sign peace treaties, you will end up being a traitor for your people because these Israelis never commit to the treaties they sign & they will continue killing your people & stealing your lands. So if your house is going to be taken anyway, and if you & your family will be killed anyway, then the most logical solution is to join Hamas.

oh gypsy right u are weak mam ( watch ur back )

USa standing on the blood of the world mam

If the U.S doesn't get involved they are guilty (Bosnia, etc.), if the U.S. does get involved they are guilty (Bosnia, etc.). No kudos for helping Kosovo? If you are lopsided how can you expect the world to be straight (even if it is, you will still see it lopsided).

Be careful what you wish for, it may come true.

its not usa job mam nobody tel them come and help when Usa army put the base in manila in phil the time of china and japan ( hiroshima and nagasaki ) the killd and raped to many philipina girls and that time phil was supporting usa do u know that check the history again

Lionheart what the Hell are you going on about, new history/old history/I have no history?? Judging from our contributions of this site I would say I at least KNOW more history then you (not to mention English).

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Well the Cubans did have nuclear weapons pointed at the US. And the US never actually killed any Cubans. The Bay of Pigs invasion was a total flop.

As for Afghanis, Somalians, Iraqis and Vietnamese, you have to look at the issues invlovled, in many of these cases they were ASKED to come in by one or another faction.

You also have to ask yourself, what's better, sitting back and watching people kill themselves (Somalia) or going in and trying to bring order?

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hey man leave gypsy alone see her profile Canada has no history to talk about it then u cannot balme her

"can you please give me a time when the US invaded and killed thousands of Saudi Arabians?"

1.as an arab, you dont have to be a Palestinean to defend your arab/muslim land. I could be from any nationality! (Saudi or any other)

2.can you please give me a time when the Vietnamese/Iraqis/Afghanis/Somalians/Cubans invaded US and killed thousands of US civilians?

a violent person MUST BE treated with more violence until he is broken. You should NEVER give the other cheek when you are slapped!

gupsy u are talking about the old history i think u know there 2 kind of history old and new the old history said u are right spain france and british right

but usa talkig in english not french and not latino not spanish good then british ppl the one who satying in USa now so can u tell me how they and why they are there

Molae,

As I said before, violence can not be treated by violence, there should be another way, we are just sick of wars everywhere.

I'm not defending anyone here, but I wil be opposing everyone who calls for more violence.

Also Molae, can you please give me a time when the US invaded and killed thousands of Saudi Arabians?

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If you're going to give an example at least give all the facts. You shouldn't try and diminish ANY civilian deaths, be they Arab or American, an innocent person dying is an innocent person dying. As for hundreds of thousands worldwide, in most of the those places the Americans also lost hundreds of thousands of people, which is why in places like Vietnam and Japan they really don't hold out any grudge, war is war.

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about any given destroyed civilian who is revenging his tragedy!.

And what is 3000 compared to the hundreds of thousands that America has killed all over the world? Why would we give a damn about a 3000 & forget the rest?

If you are gonna kill civilians then prepare for your civilians to be killed. A simple equation!

Plus I, as an arab, dont have to be a Palestinean to defend my arab/muslim land. I could be from any nationality! (Saudi or any other)

Spot on Gypsy.

They didn't just demolish a few trade towers Molae, they killed over 3000 people. And there were not Palestinians involved it was Saudi Arabians.

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"all these troubles started after the so called Islamic terrorism (I don't agree with this name at all), I don't believe that a relegion from God will call for a terrorism, but I believe that this is a personal behavior, that has been done by a Muslim"

This is definitely what the terrorists (Israel & America) want the whole world to believe. They want it to look like if some people decided to resist the tragedies, and to revenge these tragedies, then it is the begining of the problem, while we all know that the problems started when these terrorist invasions started by the Brits, French, Israelis, Americans...etc.

I am sorry to disagree with you but if a Palestinean loses his land, loses his house, has his family killed, has his religion & beliefs bashed..and all the things that Israel is doing, and America is blessing (and giving arms), then this is the begining of the problem, and I will be proud of this (hopeless) Palestinean if he decides to revenge by demolishing a couple of trade towers. At least he is not giving up, and is letting them suffer in the same manner that he (plus a million others) is suffering.

So it is very clear that the problems are not starting from some honorable individuals who are brave enough to fight back, but it is starting by army/government/state terrorism.

It is simply ethnic cleansing and/or genocide... holocaust was created as an industry and it became the way of providing "untouchable status" - therefore it is nothing but hollow-caust for me... and before I will be accused and jailed I have to say that I do not deny it, I am just tired of it... :-) ..and the worldwide double standard of the ZOG's...

oabazeed, on the points you just stated, I completely agree with you. I'm afraid Obama is going to be a disapointment for many.

Thanks britexpat....

You brought the whole point for the thread around again. I got lost and wandered away after reading all the other comments!

Anyway, I'm betting most Americans didn't read a lot into his speech or the venue. Pandering to various lobbies is part of the election process. Since Obama is a Democrat, he'd have a tough time convincing the NRA that he was pro-gun, so he had to find a group who might actually listen what he said, in this case AIPAC. Politicans are politicans, they try to calculate and time what they say so as to get elected. No one really takes to heart what they are saying.

JMT,

I completely agree with you on most of what you said, and more happy to see Americans commenting on this post.

If you allow me to cut this from your post:

" On a side note, I get rather confused when a religion is equated to a nation. I don't think of the Muslim people as one nation nor do I think of the Jewish people as one nation,"

Obama has stated those terms many times in his speech:(The Jewish Country), (The Jewish Homeland) and (The Jewish state), and they are well known and used everywhere as well.

Well, I'm not against any relegion by the way, but I feel bad when I see a country named based on a religion, where other religions has no right to live there, isn't this another Holocaust, but being done by the Jewish against all other religions.

At the end, the point is not Israel at all, my point was that the subject was not appropriate at all to be the subject of a first speech to the nation (or at least the democrats nation), he just made all his supporters disappointed, and made me personally questioning the situation.

Peace.

I think the point was that he made sure that his first speech was via AIPAC and that he made sure that he mentioned Iran..

The fact is that the Israeli / jewish lobby does have clout in the USA (as does teh NRA).. So politicians aspiring to higher office have to keep these lobbies happy..

I find it interesting that most of the comments here are not from people from the US. Seem to be just a bunch of American-bashing.

Personally, I don't think of the US President as the "ruler" of the United States. He/she is more like the chief representative of all the states, and if you look at the very short history of the US, its amazing that 50 individual states (which each have their own governor) can have relatively peaceful presidential elections every four years, which often times results in not only a change of power but a completely different way of going about the nation's business.

I have no idea about Israel or the Jewish people in America. Then again, I am from a state that doesn't have much of a Jewish presence.

On a side note, I get rather confused when a religion is equated to a nation. I don't think of the Muslim people as one nation nor do I think of the Jewish people as one nation, but they are individual people practicing their own religions. This way of thinking (and separation of church and state) is in the US constitution, but it is something that many who have country-wide religions just don't understand.

Oh Jeez, what a shocker! Obama's full of S**it, no S**it. Hope everyone's ready for another 8 years of Republican rule.

lordoftheringd, have you ever actually been to Vietnam? or Cuba? or Japan? I have, and most of these places have nothing against the States at all. Vietnam and Cuba go out of their way to make Americans feel comfortable in their country to show theirs no ill will.

Also in regards to the Native Americans (not Indians, the very fact that you call them Indians shows you know nothing of the history) speaking on their part, they did not kill all of the Native Americans (not by a long shot) and it wasn't the Americans who did it anyone, it was the Spanish, the Brits and the French who first came into the country. Also there's a lot of political factors, waring tribes, one tribe joining sides to kill another, that you know nothing about. So shut it.

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Regarding the kind of reaction that Iran or the Muslims should do towards the agression from the Dutch or the Danish,, this is a completely another matter.

I know that Muslims repect Jesus and Moses as much as they respect their prophet Mohammed, which is very great thing, you can't see it every where, therefore Muslims will never react in agression towards these two relegios sympols.

In the other hand, I know and you know that all these troubles started after the so called the Islamic terrorism (I don't agree with this name at all), I don't believe that a relegion from God will call for a terrorism, but I believe that this is a personal behavior, that has been done by a Muslim, which can be done by a Christian or Gew also.

So the best reaction in my opinion, is trying to get such relation between relegion (any relegion) and terrorism erased from the people minds, but how to do that, I will leave the answer to you.

sad but true at the end...

Molae,

Coutation: "THE American people who are electing these lousy presidents/governments, and they should take the consequences of what they have elected!"

I understand your feelings, but for me it's harsh a bit, which is the main reason I posted this topic here, which everyone started to move away from, Who is controlling the white house? and are the American votes enough for a candidate to reach the white house, or the lobby support is enough.

And based on a previous post that the Lobby support is what matter, then you can't blame American people for their lousy presidents.

aren't studying international politics and relations, gawd help us if you are.

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

electoral college...look it up then re-write your post.

"All my American friends are good and understanding, but the problem is the American government and rulers I think"

I agree that there is the good & the bad everywhere, but dont forget that it is THE American people who are electing these lousy presidents/governments, and they should take the consequences of what they have elected!

(at least other nations who are ruled by nasty dictators, have no hand in electing those dictators)

Sources and films do already exist. Read, watch and learn:

http://www.zundelsite.org/

http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2006/01/01/the-truth-behind-the-gates-of-auschwitz/

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

A simple boycott of Dutch goods and services will do, believe me! To kick somebody's balls is more painful than hit someone on the chin. :-)

hey guys lets not talk much we have to teach the new genrations how to love each others ,enough , we are at the end humans 3 religion three books thats it no one like to see blood wish love come over the world and flowers against the guns

I am only admiring the extreme reaction (by Iran) to the extreme action (by Denmark) although I don't prefer to insult a holy figure (Jesus) just because someone insulted my holy figure (Allah or Mohammed). Basically I should be respecting both of them, if I was believing in 1 of them!

Actually I'd have prefered that Iran, instead, make a movie about the facts of the, so called 'holocaust'. This way you are not insulting a holy figure (Jesus), and you will be sending a much more powerful message to the Dutch (they seem to have more respect to this issue, than to God or Jesus).

Molae,

That is a good reaction, if it was used in the right way, putting in mind, that the new movie the Irani are producing won't increase the ugly/hateful feelings between the humanity, because our aim at the end is PEACE, I hope Iran is trying to explain to the Dutch that they were wrong in a mature way, and not repeat the same mistake the dutch did, which is I'm completely against.

Some people simply understand only one language: force! I guess it is a matter of who has the bigger bat...or brings a knife to the gun fight.

good tis is the main point mossad now u became my freind USA ppl are great most of my freind Israel working hard Obama promise them alot to win on clinton its Israel then we know and u know and all who has open minded knows

jews are controlling the world

don't hold your breath...or perhaps you should.

there is another thread on the forum about Iran's response to the ugly/hateful Dutch movie about Islam.

Iran intends to produce a movie about the Christian violence during the crusaders era to show the world the facts that they try to hide.

My point is; this is the kind of reaction that I would love to see, to that action!

When someone threatens you & promotes hate about you, go threaten them & promote more hate about them! Let the whole world sink with hate! If they hit you with a stone, hit them with a rock! Never try to talk peace with such people, never show a weak point, never give the other cheek, never try to be civilized. Once they see that you don't compromise & you don't give a damn about the consequences, they will start to show some respect. Some people simply understand only one language: force!

will tell u one thing Usa teaching u wut they want to teach u not wut u want to learn okay man we know the truth its clear we who we are and we know very well who are they and one day the ( history will back again ) see Russia wut it was and wut is today life is like this we are waiting

was your post directed towards lardo?

Go and guess the riddle - Mossad is working on it hard, believe me! :-)

Have U heard about sarcasm? Do not be blinded by your emotions...

let me know when that makes sense to anyone.

Dear, Having this bloodthirsty maniac as your idol does not correspond with the intellectuality of the "The Lord of the Rings".. I think something is mixed up here.

Since the "Red Team" has been run by the same "managers" as the "Blue-Red-White-Striped with Stars Team" (funny, how the shapes and colors of the stars can be varied for the same thing) for me they are the same.

And I have heard and know about sabbra, and kanna... And do you know who were running the "Manhattan project"?

And believe me, my little island is the next for them for the sabbra, and kanna...

Democracy on the blood ha ha ha ha ha ha ha see Iraq man see ur Usa Democracy haha ha hah ah ah

wasn't even fighting for his own country...please give me another example other than mercenaries for hire.

if che killed 40000 for freedom Usa killed 90000000 without reason iam right and u know thats iam right u know wuts the tv hide and u know verywell wut the meaning of blackout of news we are not talking about persons we are talking about gove,,,,

the only reason for me is that he is black

but i got this feeling that he will be assassin ed hope not

A . D

us about Hiroshima and Nagasaki...so that we can see if your version is historically accurate...but obviously by throwing those out there as supposed examples you more than likely have not been educated in the facts surrounding those events. Although it does make great BS fodder.

why did Muslims the world over pen hopes on him...did you guys forget that he used to be a Muslim and is no longer? Isn't there a pretty serious penalty for that in these here parts...kind of ironic if you think about it...placing hopes on someone that you are supposed to or required to permanently eliminate from the face of the earth. Or do I have it all wrong? But please don't try telling me or anyone else that he wasn't Muslim...because he was and that is old news.

Democracy has two shortcomings: it is too expensive and it is too slow! :-)

he was right to fight for freedom not to kill for power okay and he didnot kill without reasons USA killing for oil killing childs and killing old men killing everyday check usa history very well starting christof colmbos tills date wut USa have done would u like me to tell u about hiroshima or nagasaki full countreis full of innocent chileds do u know sabbra do u know kanna do u know shatila u dont know nothing then

che was fighting for a victory for freedom of ur USA

Excessive support to israel is unjustified at any cost but in the end everyone is selfish and in his attempt to win the race to the white house he asked for israeli support..........

Quite crude initially he refuted Rev Jeremiah rights claims but now israel....... Quite starking...

Molae,

I could understand from your post, that you are with a war solution in order to be able to change the world situation, correct me if I misunderstood.

But even with that, and according to my Arab/Muslim friends, the Arabic/Islamic world can't not stand in face of the US now, that is why most of them choosed to be the small humble "friend" of the US, instead of being the Axis of evel, as G.W.Bush call them, Which whome suffering too much now in both economical, and political problems.

Dear Lord, Having the picture of a worldwide known communist terrorist - who personally executed innocent people - as your avatar is a little bit... He was also a ZOG mercenary... U know: once the tank, than the bank.. :-)

Hi, ZOG means Zionist Occupied Government...

nice issue man , okay amrica didnot left any place for love Vietnam

Somalia

lebanon

cuba

palastine

Sudan

syria

iran

lybia

iraq

japan

mayan

+++++++++++++++++ pla pla pla plah

wut they wont more then that how many killed in USA history first off all they killed all of Native INDian to build Usa on the blood and wut more then that they will keep kill and kill to get the oil and power and and and and and they wont stop

In my humble opinion North Korea was not the best example... :-)

bangyeeraaz,

What is ZOG machine?

excuse my poor political info.

I suggest that the feelings better turn into action. When you are strong (like North Korea), no America can threaten you. Arabs/Muslims should stop trying to be the small humble "friend" of America. They should not be afraid to play the game with higher stakes, as equals to America even if this means losses in civilians in both sides, instead of in one side.

Ladies and Gentlemen, It is simply called the ZOG Machine. Welcome to the real world...

That speech is just a promise to do what America has been doing. There's nothing into it but instead you guys are reading in between the lines too much. You are also forgetting that obama is appealing to both ends of the divided political ideology i.e. trusted leader vs politician. The former is dangerous if you're running for such a high profile position. Good example is Chavez....couldnt do it through elections and had to overthrow the govt even though he's become addicted to the power and starting to sound like a dictator.

What i truly believe is that none of us really understands how sweet and powerful that position is.....i'm sure you understand this much better if you are a manager.

Molae,

What you wrote make a lot of sense.

But, Is there anything you seggest to be done, better than keeping such feelings conrol the world.

Peace,

Don't hate becau...

Why does the world hate America???

All my American friends are good and understanding, but the problem is the American government and rulers I think.

What do you think?

about the American elections. It's a fake democracy because in the end there are red lines which no candidate can cross not matter which party they belonged to, or which god they believed in. The 1st of such red lines, is the security of Israel. If you are not a friend of the Zionists, you'd get kicked out even if the people elected you (like what happend to Hamas in Palestine & Haider in Austria). This is where you can clearly see that the whole world is following a fake democracy.

So no matter what president, America will always be an enemy to the Palestineans, Arabs, and muslim, and unless it changes its policy and starts treating nations fairly, there are millions like me who will treat America with the same kind of feelings that it has to Arabs & muslims.

Yes! America is 100% controlled by the Zionists.

And they say why does the world hate America?????

Exactly. He needs the Jewish support and thus being a politician went to AIPAC first..

Eve, Thanks for commenting.

The only reason I posted this, is the strong feeling I had when my American friend who is a big fan of Obama called me in the morning so happy about the Democrats nomination, and called me again in the evening so disappointed.

I just feel bad when I see most of the Americans so disappointed, when their nominees change overnight, all the promises just vanished in the air.

I know about the Jewish lobby which controls America, but the problem is that most of the Americans don't know that, and they never heard of middle east, and they don't care about what is going on in the middle east, where their leaders are concerned about the middle east more than the US itself.

If you don't get the Jewish vote you don't get elected, the Jewish lobby is the most powerful and wealthy in America. Lobbys control America!