"Hard workers at the lower end of the scale have no motivation to take pride in their work, and those at the top end have little motivation to improve themselves through education.
The amount of money being sent out of the country is just as bad for the economy as the amount of money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. The only way they can keep money in the country is to allow, or encourage skilled workers to settle with their families."
I agree absolutely with this point and the evidence as noted by britexpat 'USA and UK are great examples of this'.
If you look at many civilisations' pride before,the first factor in their power is to include other ethnies in the population. The last evidence being Rome and the previous Muslim Oumma.
History does not do anything more than repeating itself. So I still believe strongly that if the UAE (and any other Golf country) still stick to their rules, there is no chance to gain the full definition of a developed country. For sure, if the petrol's price falls down, it will be no more than a ghost town...
The main difference between Qatar and Dubai is that Qatar has oil and gas to pay for it's lavish spending.
That doesn't solve the problem of quality labour though, this is evident in the quality of buildings and the numerous cockups that have happened at some of the larger projects.
If people were not just here for the money, and instead made to feel part of Qatar, then I expect we would see a decrease in mistakes made, and a better quality of work produced. It's a question of getting people to take pride in their work.
Thankyou for correcting me...request you to kindly read b4 you comment the next time...Below are my facts..Read it again...I have also clearly mentioned...
I have clearly mentioned "Established in 1993, this independent institution is afflilated with the University of Wollongong, Australia." but not the university itself.
"Hard workers at the lower end of the scale have no motivation to take pride in their work, and those at the top end have little motivation to improve themselves through education.
The amount of money being sent out of the country is just as bad for the economy as the amount of money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. The only way they can keep money in the country is to allow, or encourage skilled workers to settle with their families."
A lot of Indians settled in Fiji and gained citizenship. Over the years they became a majority and finally they elected a Prime Minister of Indian orgin.. This caused resentment amongst the locals and the army staged a coup overthrowing the democratically elected government.
I don't think it's so much the greed, every economy needs some way of distributing wealth in an uneven manner. Even idealistic communism requires that some people are more equal than others.
Unfortunatly with Dubai, I think that the way wealth has been distributed does not support the growth of a society. Wealth is distributed based on where you are from, not what you do. Hard workers at the lower end of the scale have no motivation to take pride in their work, and those at the top end have little motivation to improve themselves through education.
The amount of money being sent out of the country is just as bad for the economy as the amount of money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. The only way they can keep money in the country is to allow, or encourage skilled workers to settle with their families.
I'm going to stop now before I write an entire essay on this.
Brit, Fiji I'm unfamiliar with, can you give me a condensed version or some references to read?
"Kindly note that dubai had their first foreign university in 1993."
No, not true. You have your facts wrong. Uni of Wollongong was first a language institute, and wasn't technically a university campus until 2000, ie AFTER VCU:
Located close to the Al Mulla Plaza in Hamriya, the Institute for Australian Studies was officially opened on 25 April 1993. Initially, short courses in English language were offered. To meet demand the undergraduate and postgraduate programs in Business and Information Technology were introduced.
In 1999 the UAE Federal Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research granted the institute a licence, resulting in a name change to the University of Wollongong, Dubai Campus. Increasing demand soon lead to a change of premises.
University of Wollongong, Dubai Campus – 2000 to 2004
The campus moved to Jumeirah Beach Road and was officially opened in October 2000. It has since become a well-known Dubai landmark. Increases in enrolments and staff, a robust engagement with the wider community and a global focus resulted in further growth and a requirement for additional space.
Knowledge Village – 2004 to Present
In 2004 the university moved to Knowledge Village, an education precinct located in Dubai. It was then incorporated as the University of Wollongong in Dubai (UOWD).
Significantly in 2005, the UOWD undergraduate and postgraduate programs received accreditation by the UAE Federal Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research. Coupled with this accreditation is the recognition of UOWD degrees by UOW (Australia), which has resulted in an internationally-recognised qualification for UOWD graduates.
didn't have any foreign university before QF. REREAD MY POST! I stated that Knowledge Village and Academic City came AFTER QF's EC.
I am aware of the Aussie uni being in Dubai. Perhaps you are not aware that VCU only replicates the Interior, Fashion and Design majors offered at the home campus. They were not contracted to duplicate the entire university, as QF has a different (and unique) vision for EC that involves bringing in universities to offer only specific degrees that are viewed as their greatest strength.
Kindly note that dubai had their first foreign university in 1993. Appended are the details
The University of Wollongong in Dubai (UOWD) (in Arabic:جامعة ولونغونغ في دبي) is a private university located in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Established in 1993, this independent institution is afflilated with the University of Wollongong, Australia.
And about QF
Virginia Commonwealth University in Qatar (VCUQatar) was the first university to come to Education City in 1998, and celebrated its seventh graduation in 2008.
Also note that
Cources offered by VCU Qatr were not even close the ones offered by Wollongong Dubai.
i am not trying to compare doha and Dubai.
Both have equally worked hard to come up and make a stand in the world today...
There were some areas in Kuwait that were full of grandiose unfinished buildings where people started building the concrete structures and had to abandon them because of finances. It always seemed like a stark reminder of greed and people living beyond their means.
I maybe wrong PM but I think Knowledge village and Academic city with all the big name universities in the world were developed in Dubai before QF in Qatar, I am not sure about this though. Maybe you can help out.
to sustain the current level of development. That's a pipe dream -- and pipe dreams are easily sold to those who are not very savvy.
I have always said the best thing Qatar ever did was focus on education before adding all the "frills". Dubai chose to be greedy and go for the frills first.
In the long-run I do hope Dubai will bounce back. I like Sheikh Mo's "can do" attitude and would take no pleasure in seeing them become a ghost town.
The problem with Dubai which everybody could see is that they were blinded by the moeny that was pouring in.. They were in great hurry to do everything and they wanted the whole world inside that small geographic area..
I remember last year. one guy from Dubai went to Lyon for vacations.. He liked the place and took permission from their city authorities to recreate entire lyon near Dubai.. He wanted to come visit that city everytime he liked, so he decided to build it near his home, don't think he will be doing that now.
The problem I see with Dubai is the subcontract culture.
The people building Dubai know they are only welcome there as long as there is stuff to build, no longer. There is no stake, no motivation to do a proper job, no pride to be taken in a project you've helped come to fruitation, no need to look at sustainability; just an oppertunity to get some cash and leave before the mud starts flying.
The only way to solve this problem is to
a) stop sub contracting and build it yourself
b) offer citizenship and erode the current inequalities between races.
Handing out passports is the only way they can secure long term prosperity for the region. Yes they like to subcontract everything out and we come but once the easy money runs (o&g) they they will not have the liquidity to support the current practise.
My grandfather rode a camel
my father rode a camel
I drive a Ferrari and leverage huge projects built on sand
The first dream would have been better to educate themselves and therefore improve their attitude and behaviour.
'Before buying a car, learn how to drive it.'
'The foundations are still there': I will say that it is the main problem, there is no serious foundation. The brain is the fisrt foundation to take care off, and then the physical part follows...
So no wonder of the result. This is just the starter. I will even bet that in the near future, the main course will be a nightmare...
These societies are not bothered about that. They "sub contract" out everything.
I recall during the Gulf War being based on a Base in Saudi and one of the locals telling me that they "prefer to outsource" the war because they can afford to. There will always be takers..
Money was being abused in Dubai.. Had to happen sooner or later, again as someone said there is no transparency so you don't really know how serious is the problem..
Societies that want to maintain ethnic purity can be sustained, but not at the pace and level of development that many of the Gulf countries aspire to.
Dubai's problem along with a lot of gulf states is that they will not have long term prosperity unless they start handing out passports. People with no stakecin the societywill get up and leave when times are tough but the Arabs are not ready to embrace a multi cultural society just yet.
Looks like Briitish banks have to lose the most when compared to everyone else, which in turn means another round of taxpayers money being used to prop up these banks
exactly brit yet they build d foundation of there dreams which we dont know might be a good start from them later on once the crisis is over. actually i'm not agreed in the rapid boom of dubai coz i know it will not suceed later (currently happening) but if u will see his infrastructure u will be amaze that in the short time of yrs they made everything like impossibe.
DON'T LET FANTASY ROB YOU OF YOUR REAL LIFE BEAUTY
are u guys happy in what's happening in dubai? i know they made lots of mistake but look how dubai created there dreams. the problem here is there's no transparency when it terms of there governance and now it's not only them is affected, the concern now is the world market. its better to keep quiet and hoping that everything will be back to normal. and there leaders should learn from there mistake. rayt?
DON'T LET FANTASY ROB YOU OF YOUR REAL LIFE BEAUTY
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As said by perfectstranger:
"Hard workers at the lower end of the scale have no motivation to take pride in their work, and those at the top end have little motivation to improve themselves through education.
The amount of money being sent out of the country is just as bad for the economy as the amount of money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. The only way they can keep money in the country is to allow, or encourage skilled workers to settle with their families."
I agree absolutely with this point and the evidence as noted by britexpat 'USA and UK are great examples of this'.
If you look at many civilisations' pride before,the first factor in their power is to include other ethnies in the population. The last evidence being Rome and the previous Muslim Oumma.
History does not do anything more than repeating itself. So I still believe strongly that if the UAE (and any other Golf country) still stick to their rules, there is no chance to gain the full definition of a developed country. For sure, if the petrol's price falls down, it will be no more than a ghost town...
I m sure you are a good team leader...
Just heard the news that the UAE central bank will support Dubai in this credit crisis. Hopefully it will avert the replay of last years GFC.
The main difference between Qatar and Dubai is that Qatar has oil and gas to pay for it's lavish spending.
That doesn't solve the problem of quality labour though, this is evident in the quality of buildings and the numerous cockups that have happened at some of the larger projects.
If people were not just here for the money, and instead made to feel part of Qatar, then I expect we would see a decrease in mistakes made, and a better quality of work produced. It's a question of getting people to take pride in their work.
we're turning away from the subject. :D
DON'T LET FANTASY ROB YOU OF YOUR REAL LIFE BEAUTY
Thankyou for correcting me...request you to kindly read b4 you comment the next time...Below are my facts..Read it again...I have also clearly mentioned...
I have clearly mentioned "Established in 1993, this independent institution is afflilated with the University of Wollongong, Australia." but not the university itself.
My facts are from Wikipedia..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Wollongong_in_Dubai
But Yes, good homework.
True.. USA and UK are great examples of this.
However, each country has to choose its own path..
where as per you does qatar Stand on this one..
"Hard workers at the lower end of the scale have no motivation to take pride in their work, and those at the top end have little motivation to improve themselves through education.
The amount of money being sent out of the country is just as bad for the economy as the amount of money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. The only way they can keep money in the country is to allow, or encourage skilled workers to settle with their families."
I feel its the same here ???
acclimate and build a healthy, diverse society; one that actually benefits from the diversity of its population.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
A lot of Indians settled in Fiji and gained citizenship. Over the years they became a majority and finally they elected a Prime Minister of Indian orgin.. This caused resentment amongst the locals and the army staged a coup overthrowing the democratically elected government.
I knew Wollongong was there but didn't know the details.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I don't think it's so much the greed, every economy needs some way of distributing wealth in an uneven manner. Even idealistic communism requires that some people are more equal than others.
Unfortunatly with Dubai, I think that the way wealth has been distributed does not support the growth of a society. Wealth is distributed based on where you are from, not what you do. Hard workers at the lower end of the scale have no motivation to take pride in their work, and those at the top end have little motivation to improve themselves through education.
The amount of money being sent out of the country is just as bad for the economy as the amount of money sitting in a bank account doing nothing. The only way they can keep money in the country is to allow, or encourage skilled workers to settle with their families.
I'm going to stop now before I write an entire essay on this.
Brit, Fiji I'm unfamiliar with, can you give me a condensed version or some references to read?
Where did we start and where have we headed ??
Similar to Dubai :O)
"Kindly note that dubai had their first foreign university in 1993."
No, not true. You have your facts wrong. Uni of Wollongong was first a language institute, and wasn't technically a university campus until 2000, ie AFTER VCU:
http://www.itc.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=70&Itemid=57
Institute for Australian Studies – 1993 to 2000
Located close to the Al Mulla Plaza in Hamriya, the Institute for Australian Studies was officially opened on 25 April 1993. Initially, short courses in English language were offered. To meet demand the undergraduate and postgraduate programs in Business and Information Technology were introduced.
In 1999 the UAE Federal Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research granted the institute a licence, resulting in a name change to the University of Wollongong, Dubai Campus. Increasing demand soon lead to a change of premises.
University of Wollongong, Dubai Campus – 2000 to 2004
The campus moved to Jumeirah Beach Road and was officially opened in October 2000. It has since become a well-known Dubai landmark. Increases in enrolments and staff, a robust engagement with the wider community and a global focus resulted in further growth and a requirement for additional space.
Knowledge Village – 2004 to Present
In 2004 the university moved to Knowledge Village, an education precinct located in Dubai. It was then incorporated as the University of Wollongong in Dubai (UOWD).
Significantly in 2005, the UOWD undergraduate and postgraduate programs received accreditation by the UAE Federal Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research. Coupled with this accreditation is the recognition of UOWD degrees by UOW (Australia), which has resulted in an internationally-recognised qualification for UOWD graduates.
noted..
The greed, very true. Main cause of inflation.
The gulf should not forget that, Every foundation in thier countries has been laid by expats who have put in their swet and blood for it.
didn't have any foreign university before QF. REREAD MY POST! I stated that Knowledge Village and Academic City came AFTER QF's EC.
I am aware of the Aussie uni being in Dubai. Perhaps you are not aware that VCU only replicates the Interior, Fashion and Design majors offered at the home campus. They were not contracted to duplicate the entire university, as QF has a different (and unique) vision for EC that involves bringing in universities to offer only specific degrees that are viewed as their greatest strength.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Kindly note that dubai had their first foreign university in 1993. Appended are the details
The University of Wollongong in Dubai (UOWD) (in Arabic:جامعة ولونغونغ في دبي) is a private university located in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Established in 1993, this independent institution is afflilated with the University of Wollongong, Australia.
And about QF
Virginia Commonwealth University in Qatar (VCUQatar) was the first university to come to Education City in 1998, and celebrated its seventh graduation in 2008.
Also note that
Cources offered by VCU Qatr were not even close the ones offered by Wollongong Dubai.
i am not trying to compare doha and Dubai.
Both have equally worked hard to come up and make a stand in the world today...
I bet that Dubai will stand on its own pretty soon..
Do not forget, Dubai is not just any city. The progress of dubai was not something that happened within 5-10 years.
Dubai is known for tourism, business past ages.
Every business has downfalls, runs into loss.
Does not mean they are out of the MAP, NO, Not at all.
Where till date people have not even heard of other gulf states, They know what DUBAI it.
Remember they have no oil to support their economy. Its their hard earned goodwill through the latest of towers, tech, museums and lot more.
I am not from dubai, neither have i ever lived there.
but for a matter of fact, they have with them the modern trasures such as the Atlantus, Burj Dubai ++ many more.
Yes, mortgage, property did screw thier economy, but as i said.
They will be back on thier feet and will run equally or faster than other gulf states.
There were some areas in Kuwait that were full of grandiose unfinished buildings where people started building the concrete structures and had to abandon them because of finances. It always seemed like a stark reminder of greed and people living beyond their means.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
With all the tall unfinished skyscrapers and buildings in it.
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Ah ok.. I thought Knowledge Village came earlier.
within a few years of the formation of QF.
Knowledge Village was launched in 2003 and Academic City in 2007.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
I maybe wrong PM but I think Knowledge village and Academic city with all the big name universities in the world were developed in Dubai before QF in Qatar, I am not sure about this though. Maybe you can help out.
to sustain the current level of development. That's a pipe dream -- and pipe dreams are easily sold to those who are not very savvy.
I have always said the best thing Qatar ever did was focus on education before adding all the "frills". Dubai chose to be greedy and go for the frills first.
In the long-run I do hope Dubai will bounce back. I like Sheikh Mo's "can do" attitude and would take no pleasure in seeing them become a ghost town.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
Ya I agree, it was amazing the way people were buying into it.
They are offering a product. The funny thing is the people who buy into it..
I have a friend who paid 5 million for an apartment in the Pallazio Versace.. To me its way over the top..
Here's the story.. Just shows the way they were thinking, money was the last thing on their mind. I want it, I will have it was the way to go.
The project isn't shelved for now, lets see if they go ahead with the planned construction in 2010..
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/world/europe/28lyon.html
In small countries, this could be problematic..
Remember Fiji !
The problem with Dubai which everybody could see is that they were blinded by the moeny that was pouring in.. They were in great hurry to do everything and they wanted the whole world inside that small geographic area..
I remember last year. one guy from Dubai went to Lyon for vacations.. He liked the place and took permission from their city authorities to recreate entire lyon near Dubai.. He wanted to come visit that city everytime he liked, so he decided to build it near his home, don't think he will be doing that now.
The problem I see with Dubai is the subcontract culture.
The people building Dubai know they are only welcome there as long as there is stuff to build, no longer. There is no stake, no motivation to do a proper job, no pride to be taken in a project you've helped come to fruitation, no need to look at sustainability; just an oppertunity to get some cash and leave before the mud starts flying.
The only way to solve this problem is to
a) stop sub contracting and build it yourself
b) offer citizenship and erode the current inequalities between races.
The theory is that the local population is growing and slowly the expats will build the country and "train" the locals to run things..
Now for sure they will not unpeg Riyal and Dinnar from Dollar
At least "Road to Dubai" still open for Tiger Wood, Henrik Stenson, Ernie Els, Rory McIlroy, Lee Westwood etc........
Life is a continual upgrade. ~JMW
Handing out passports is the only way they can secure long term prosperity for the region. Yes they like to subcontract everything out and we come but once the easy money runs (o&g) they they will not have the liquidity to support the current practise.
My grandfather rode a camel
my father rode a camel
I drive a Ferrari and leverage huge projects built on sand
my son will ride a camel
Perhaps the time is right for Britain to go back and recreate the "trucial states "
The first dream would have been better to educate themselves and therefore improve their attitude and behaviour.
'Before buying a car, learn how to drive it.'
'The foundations are still there': I will say that it is the main problem, there is no serious foundation. The brain is the fisrt foundation to take care off, and then the physical part follows...
So no wonder of the result. This is just the starter. I will even bet that in the near future, the main course will be a nightmare...
Welcome to 'Alice in Wonderland'
These societies are not bothered about that. They "sub contract" out everything.
I recall during the Gulf War being based on a Base in Saudi and one of the locals telling me that they "prefer to outsource" the war because they can afford to. There will always be takers..
Money was being abused in Dubai.. Had to happen sooner or later, again as someone said there is no transparency so you don't really know how serious is the problem..
Societies that want to maintain ethnic purity can be sustained, but not at the pace and level of development that many of the Gulf countries aspire to.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
but Dubai is fake
Dubai's problem along with a lot of gulf states is that they will not have long term prosperity unless they start handing out passports. People with no stakecin the societywill get up and leave when times are tough but the Arabs are not ready to embrace a multi cultural society just yet.
i'm glad i'm in doha now. lol
And I'm sad plenty of people are still jumping in on the Dubai bandwagon...
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
:D
"Think 100 times before you take a decision, But once that decision is taken, stand by it as one man" - Muhammad Ali Jinnah
i'm glad i'm in doha now. lol
DON'T LET FANTASY ROB YOU OF YOUR REAL LIFE BEAUTY
Looks like Briitish banks have to lose the most when compared to everyone else, which in turn means another round of taxpayers money being used to prop up these banks
im sure they'll do something and fix everything...if not they'll just buy 2 other landcruisers!!! maybe that will solve it
************************************
I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise
exactly brit yet they build d foundation of there dreams which we dont know might be a good start from them later on once the crisis is over. actually i'm not agreed in the rapid boom of dubai coz i know it will not suceed later (currently happening) but if u will see his infrastructure u will be amaze that in the short time of yrs they made everything like impossibe.
DON'T LET FANTASY ROB YOU OF YOUR REAL LIFE BEAUTY
Dubai was selling a dream. The foundations are still there, but now at least we are seeing some reality.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
are u guys happy in what's happening in dubai? i know they made lots of mistake but look how dubai created there dreams. the problem here is there's no transparency when it terms of there governance and now it's not only them is affected, the concern now is the world market. its better to keep quiet and hoping that everything will be back to normal. and there leaders should learn from there mistake. rayt?
DON'T LET FANTASY ROB YOU OF YOUR REAL LIFE BEAUTY
life's upside down...
Hahahahaha - brilliant!!
Dubai's situation is one of their own making because of their greed. The same can happen anywhere in the Gulf, if they are not careful.
I didn't drink the kool-aid! -- PM
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach