How much to pay a maid? It is official now!!

It is my thread and I am ok with the slug fest. I guess no one else should have a problem. And I should have the option to call for its deletion or otherwise as by default I am the moderator of this thread and so far I dont see nothing of the sort which can call for its deletion..:)

P.S.: I almost always appreciate Thelonius comments, not only physics related...cos they are logical and encompassing what is happening around us, elsewhere, though many find them not to their taste in which case they can opt to ignore.

Your patience is commendable!

And a great way to get what was originally an informative and interesting thread banned!

Personally I have many times in the past given detailed explanations to the concept of slavery that existed even before Islam and how and why it was abolished over a period of time rather than instantly ,hence I will not go into it again..not right now at least! Because there is no connection between the topic of slavery and a maid working for a wage. The fact is a maid is NOT a slave..period. And the employers of maids, regardless of how oppressive and abusive they are, are NOT their masters and Lords!

Anyway I agree with TB. When QL has an option why not we utilize it properly.

As long as this thread is concerned I think Dude Lonius started first. :)

Lonius.. it allows only when lives are in danger..and the economy of a society is in danger.. slaves before were more happier than today freelance workers.. there was a huge population of slaves..Owners were encouraged to free their slaves..You know what..slaves used to cry to leave their owners as they were so close and their owners treated them as family members (cuz of religion) so slavery which religions practised was in concept of adoption. Considering their situation in the arab word if religion skips slavery there would have been a huge deficit in their economy with more homeless and jobless people.

Nope not all religions are man made concepts. If you know the concept of religion it never controls you. It gives you choices as simple as that and you choose from your will.

and please put the link,

guys you will not regret if you go and read what is it about the last link.

Kareena slavery in context with adoption to support poor socially & economically & treating them as human being is not wrong. I know religious people who were more kind with their slaves than most of the mom & dads at this time. Slaves were given a job, a shelter , food, clothes & allowed to practice their will.. if you read history you will understand it. Our mind is shallow without historical knowledge & proper cause & effect analysis.

BTW title is How much to pay for a maid but IDK who hijacked this topic. I control myself not to discuss these issues here as per QL guidelines but I could not resist myself not to clarify things asked here.

during your coffee break please have a look at this comprehinsive article in this link http://islamqa.info/en/ref/94840

Then that God would not encourage slavery.. God would say that all human beings are equal and that no human can own another human.. Every human is born free and dies free.. Slavery is a man made concept.

ok , Not Every religion , But all Semitic religions

A narrow perspective.

It is sarcastic that believers claims their religions against slavery . Instead Every religion supported slavery which is prevalent at their times , rather say every religion is a creation of human mind itself .

If your book tell you how to treat your slaves , your holy book is disqualified as a source of moral code .

There are religions which considers sex as sin and a reason to be killed , the same religions supported slavery throughout history .How funny

There were slaves who were good Muslims and as per our doctrines Bilal ( who was a Slave & a Negro ) was honoured to be the first person to invite people to mosque by prayer calls and he had same respect as other HUman Being.

If you really wanna know create a post in religious teaching I would be happy to discuss with you however to your question the main strategy behind slavery was to support them socially and economically.

There were so many reasons. One of them I would the Socio Economic Strategy.. slaves were jobless poor homeless and people with no money left.. and Islam supported them as a family member and given their rights..slaves got a shelter food & a real Kindness.

I remember the story of a Companion of Prophet (PBOH) that his slave accidentally put boiling water or a hot food on his kid and kid died on spot.

Salve read this verse in front of Companion word by word http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=3&verse=134

When he recite "who pardon the people" The companion said I forgave you. and wn he read "Allah loves the doers of good" he was released from slavery.

However a question that comes up often is that, if Islam really didn't advocate for slavery, then why it didn't just simply forbid it,?

You know like how Islam is explicitly intolerant with the eating of swine and the consumption of intoxicants why not the same level of intolerance towards slavery?

The existence of slavery is an ancient condition. It was there long before there was Islam.

Islam may not have been entirely successful in eliminating slavery; however I can safely say Islam was the only religion to recommend the freeing of a slave as a way of exemption of sins.

I hope the new president will band filipina maids for GCC.

Say Indonesia, Philippines and other countries will just raise the band in two years then well see if $400 would still be high for them.

I cant imagine how a local would complain to spend $400 to do all the crap wiping every once ass.

Thelonius ,, my dear Islam Ends the slavery

Cause the old time slaves were forced to consider their master their God.

All these Sura you put is talking about "The Right hands possess" which is something is not available any longer and it is not a random thing, i mean you can't pay money and say this woman is My Right hands possess

Right hands possess :The term itself is normally considered to refer to prisoners of war, or more broadly to slaves in general .. Wikipedia

And as Islam have no more wars like the old times, So no more right hand possess ,,, Add on Islam recommend Muslims to treat them very well, sometimes they were considered as wives .

hope i could answer your question :)

I forgot to include a sarcasm alert on my post!

There are some who will always look back at history and justify it as being okay, not matter what facts are revealed. There is little point expecting narrow-minded people to be, well, open-minded. They weren't brought up that way.

Thanks Fubar. However it is not about smile or win/lose it is about knowing the real concept I mean not some emotional judgement as simple as that.

Lonious I am glad you read all those references..hope you will Read This too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/slavery_1.shtml

Interesting link.

But maybe someone will say it's not valid because it's come from an evil Western news site, and not a religious/Islamic site.

Thankfully I was able to find a link to a religious scholar who has argued that slavery in Islam was actually a good thing, not like slavery in Christianity, which was obviously a bad thing.

Therefore, case closed - Slavery existed in Islam, but only as a way to help people and be nice to them. Smiley faces all round.

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/

Do you know something about Slavery in Pre Islamic Era? I think you did not read the whole article BBC link.

Lonius Are you sure you read it?

And let Kareena read it as well.

And very well said.. Now over to SA.

Was she deimvered via Cargo ?

I found my maid through a friend and then transferred her sponsorship to me.

Mandi

Don't most (western) people give their maid an entire day off over the weekend?

Why is that seen as weird??

office or personal?

Good morning to you both...Hope you both are fine :)...Can i please give you both a white dove :)

old man!

O Dementer Dementer, plz do tell????

it's demeter. Hope you know the word "sarcasm".

Anyway time for my squash game ciao

Dementer coming from u wow thx

SPYBOT - yes, you're the best... whatever!

Dementer..it has nothing to do with lucky like me it has to do with my opinion...I am actually tired of OPS how much must u pay how much must u give and don't get me wrong I am all for equality and fairness, I have an opinion I raise it I have a question I ask it, it has nothing to do with my luck. Yes they will starve I agree there as well, I am just tired of the moans and groans...its called FIFO....then stay home and starve.

And SA? I gave my maid off from Thursday after 6pm until Saturday after 6 pm.

Mandi

SPYBOT - Let me tell you something. Yeah, you're right, it takes 2 to tango. But most of these maids come from Third world country. Bad economy way back home, no job and they have family that needs to support, kids that needs to send to school. Not everyone is lucky like you. So they rather take that small amount than stay at home earning nothing. So even if it's so hard for them to take that salary, they are accepting it than to starve. "Selling their souls" - BIG accusation. :)

And btw, it's DEMETER.. Remove the extra "N". :-P

700-900 for a maid. 1800-2000 for a GOOD maid. You wanna hassle with a non-professional and then complain bitterly? Go cheap then by all means.

Mandi

It's not slavery if you intend to pay them next month, eventually.

While growing up my teacher told me, Slavery is abolished from our world;

Then I came to this wonderland of 'Maids'!!! and learnt that My teacher was wrong, I was wrong;

fubar...I will take that with lot of salt and with some pepper too, I mean the contract.

All Depends upon the How is your nature as employer. If your are good in behaviour to all and your servants, they will work happily and you will also help them more out of their wages. But if u r rude, then even u pay them more they will abuse you in your absence, As regards Relegion. Islam Always teach equality. Slave and the owner are equal to GOD. U can see this in mosque no diffrence of race and colour. Islam wants to apply this in real life too.

There isn't currently a hard and fast rule about working hours, duties, etc, but the same article does say:

---

A standard format for the work contracts of housemaids would be agreed upon with the countries concerned “to adopt indisputable and clear clauses that guarantee the rights of both parties, the maid and the employer”.

Al-Rayis said that discussions had been going on with other GCC countries to approve a form of standard unified employment contract for maids. “The process is still in the negotiation stage.”

---

Maybe in this new contract the issue of working hours, a day off, etc, will be legally settled?

She should be treated like a human not like a slave.

I guess the thread has gone in a particular direction. There isn't any hard and fast rule reg. working hrs or what she must do and what not since the need of two families may be entirely different and she is there to fullfil an identified need. Bottomline though stays that she needs to be treated fair and paid a fair wage commensurate to the work she does. Same goes for working hrs depending on ones own need though not suggesting that she should be working 24x7 or all through the night...for sure with necessary breaks to get rest and time for herself...when and how can always be worked out, again based on individual requirments and again a bit more or a bit less.

People need a day off to relax SA.

A day off work just means a day when you don't have any work to do. No one would interpret that as meaning that you kick the maid out of the house for 24 hours and tell her she can't come inside to sleep in her bed.

who send their maid for complete day off, probably no person who have live in house maid will give complete day off.

In this case many Qatari people apply the concept of giving her this day off where she does not do any work.

Where do "normal" people sleep on their day off from work?

In their bed, right?

How is a maid and her day off any different from an accountant and her day off?

SA, time off doesn't mean they have to leave the house. It just means that they don't have to work. They can come and go as they please.

I don't understand not giving the maid time off. Don't people want family time? Our nanny is off the minute I get home (usually around 5/5:30) and she has weekends off as well, because weekends are family time. She's welcome to come grocery shopping with us if she wants, but she never does because she values her alone time as well.

Exactly EmilyR - and what really makes it look so very bad and disgusting is that a lot of this employers treat them like they have bought them and all this sponsorship rules etc makes it much harder for this poor souls to run away or to seek a way out of their grievances. They should be given a way out if they are not happy with the way they are treated and certainly you cannot blame the poor maids if they are promised one thing back in their countries and made to do something else when they get here.

Kareena it is not only western people pay double I have seen Arabs also do it..I know some families who are very generous and kind. They do so much when someone of their family member is getting marry ( I mean maids family ) and so many stories.

P.S. Hope u had a great time having candle light dinner :)

if you bring a live in house maid and you give her one full day off, then where does she sleep?

I agree with Emily...

on one side peoples want them for 24x7 and wants to pay the minimum they can but on another side for themself they complain that we are working too hard for the company there is no increment and all like this....

I just wish others would treat that maid that way instead of making them work like slaves or rather donkeys all day long. They are humans just like us and deserve a fair and just life too.

Pay them little more than the minimum wage..that little depends on how generous you are and the unit of measurement for generosity is quality not quantity. Apart from wages some consider them as a part of their family..even if you dont pay them more no worries but treat them as a family member or at least as a Human Being.

Dont pay her too much that your wifey or girl friend thinks something else about you hahaha just kidding.

I think it's amazing (and frankly horrific) what so many in this country think these people are worth. They live with you, take care of your kids, cook your food... and you think anything approaching a living wage is too high?

We have had our maid/nanny for nearly a year now-- she's the sister of a friend's nanny and was looking for a new employer. We pay her 2000qr (with plans to raise it on her anniversary with us), she has the entire weekend off (out of the house), she doesn't have to cook for us, isn't dragged around town to carry shopping bags, and is off duty by 5:30 most nights. These people have souls every bit as valuable as yours, treat them like it!

I agree Brit. Lots of different people from different backgrounds mistreat their maids.

No one single culture holds a monopoly on treating their fellow humans like crap.

That's my verdict of the so called official recommended pay for a live in maid. Specially when you take into account the heavy work load, oppression and abuse many maids face at the hands of their employers and/or family members. My heart goes out to anyone desperate enough to agree on such a wage!

Its high time that some organizations like Qatar foundation or some human resources recrutiment companies started classes on "How to treat the maid" for the employers and maybe also some classes on how to work under demanding situations for the maids. Besides the new maids should be given a chance to change their sponsors or work with another employer or just to leave and go home if they are not happy with what they are supposed to do or made to do

Both Qataris and Expats hire maids / drivers.

As I said earlier, many are willing to splash out on a day out or designer bling, but the thought of paying a fair wage to a maid / driver / cleaner is abhorant to them.

Yes, Brit?

I don't think it's true to say that they are desperate for a job working in a house for very little money.

Given how many hundreds and hundreds runaway after arriving, many of them just accept the job because it gets them an entry visa into Qatar, and they know they can make 10 times as much working as a casual maid cleaning the houses of a bunch of westerners, than they will working for a single family.

It then becomes the embassy's problem to try and clean up the mess when they get caught and deported.

everything for Thelonius and I put it so that some guys will not be misleaded.

Dementer the problem is we shud not blame the modern day slavery, we shud blame the ppl tht take these jobs for tht salary...they desperate, come from third grade countries and will sell their souls for tht amount so yeah I guess it takes 2 too tango...stop the maids from accepting and tell them then to stay home.

Makes u think doesn't it

please proof it

1. Are you Muslim?

2. Did you study the holy Qur'an to speak about it?

Here is a link for some of what is mentioned in the Holy Qur'an

Does Islam condone slavery? Does Islamic teaching allow Muslim men to keep women as sex slaves?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/015-slavery.htm

Boxbe I'd make the comment that religion clearly has nothing to do with the ill treatment of people like maids - if religion was involved, and people actually followed their religion, they would treat their maids better.

what has religion got to do with it...the person himself is responsible for it..they very well know the islamic ethics but the only thing they are not following it...so its his mistake in the end

There was a seminar held recently about the ill-treatment of foreign workers in Qatar.

The attendees came to the conclusion that maybe if the employees were treated with "Islamic Ethics" it would solve the problems.

Make you wonder... doesn't that imply that the problems that are being faced presently are because people are treating their employees in "Un-Islamic" ways?

I thought Qatar was an Islamic country, so how is there such an absence of Islamic Ethics?

HGL I think this is why you see families with a maid per kid, or more, because they hire poorly trained, poorly skilled ones and end up having to hire multiple maids to do what one trained, decently paid maid could do on her own, no problems.

The article also states that some families rely heavily on these maids. Isnt then the poorly trained, poorly skilled maids hired due to low wages defies the purpose of having these maids in the first place. End of the day what is achieved. And when they dont do the work properly as they lack the required training and skills they also get ill treated. Doesn't sound a win-win situation. A few good hands paid properly would serve the purpose and would keep both the parties happy, I suppose.

Bringing a maid from your side (not through office)

25 QR/hr x 5 hr/day = 125 QR/day

125 QR/day x 5 day/week = 625 QR/week

625 QR/week x 4 week/month = 2500 QR/month

2500 QR/month x 12 month/yr = 30000 QR/yr

By the end of the second year you will pay another 30000 QR, so in two yrs you would have spent sixty thousand Qatari Ryal

Through office

Charges + visa = 9000 QR maximum

1500 QR/month salary = 18000

Total is 27000 QR in frist year

Now if we see the difference after two years

Maid from office 45000 QR

Maid through you 60000 QR

from office you save 15000 QR in the first two years

Exactly Miss Mimi. The maids who come to the Gulf with drive and ambition are the ones likely to abscond from their sponsors and find a better paying job.

It's more in the government's interest to bring in the cheapest, most poorly trained and poorly skilled young women as maids.

I think the government agencies are more interested in quantity, rather than quality. Better to have lots and lots of low paid maids who won't be inspired to work hard, than a few decently paid, hard working maids.

Agree with you Miss mimi, fubar and demeter.

I wonder how the government officials have decided this much LOW WAGE for the maids? I mean were they doing some LOTTERY game or what?? :)

Well, we hired our nanny/maid ourselves. It is more expensive, but we had the added benefit of getting to meet her (as she was already in the country) and her current sponsors, and see how she was with my son and the little boy she was currently looking after. We also got to meet her daughter, son-in-law and grandson. It was a very positive experience.

According to the gulf times the cost for hiring a maid through an agency is about 11,000Qar.

They must be lying again.

And I agree with Miss Mimi. Would you want someone paid such a small sum of money taking care of your children while you aren't at home? If I was a maid being paid such a small amount of money I'd just plonk the kid in front of the TV and ignore it all day. If it peed itself I wouldn't care. If it was hungry I wouldn't care. If it cried I'd just shut the door and walk away.

US$250 (QR 700- QR900 approx), 12 hrs work per day, no day off + employer holding the maid's passport = excellent way of modern day slavery.

People will because they have too soniya. But once they get here they will start looking for better paying jobs and won't do a great job at the one they currently have.

I've never employed any maids and don't even think that it might happen in future too.

But what i feel is that the rates fixed by the government (if at all it has become official)is relatively low..I doubt if anyone will accept MAID's job at such a low rate..

Well they say they can now get them from five more places. Getting them out here looks like the easy part but the big question is would they want to stay and continue for such little salaries once they get here

They do physical activity. I strongly believe they deserve a spa treatement at Sharq or atleast a massage at VLCC or the likes once every 15 days.

And yes, if someone wants them to start work at crack of the dawn they should be allowed to take rest after 6 PM the previous evening and served a bed tea by the host family to wake them up. If not they should start work not before 9 or 10 AM. Anything else is absolute barbaric. And dont forget, not allowing them tickets to travel back to home countries atleast twice a year is again barbaric. A vacation to some other country along with or without the host family wouldn't be out of place either. And if she has a BF pay for him too, I say.

I would say making them work till 7pm is also a little over the top...not to use the word barbaric ...they normally start at the crack of dawn....so i think 12 hrs + per day is barbaric

When it comes to minimum wage, that is you need to pay her minimum 200 to 250 USD but you can definitely pay her more than that.. I would not even dream of bringing a maid on that salary.. Anything less than 500 dollars is inhuman. Plus I would give her either Friday or Saturday off depending which is convenient for me.. Also on regular days I would make sure she finishes her up work by 7pm and retires to her room. Making them work more than 10 to 12 hours is barbaric.

So does this conform to wht the maids r asking if u get them from within Qatar and the rate is 25 p/hour or live in wants 2500p/mnth??/

You have to follow the contract from the office which you intend to bring her from.

If you will not bring through office then you agree with her.

I Have no Intentions of hiring a Maid... But non the less $200 to $250 is not a sufficient amount at all....

is good option to have embassyies the maids living in hostels and work for 12 hrs.

and its an irony traffic fines for me is more than what they receive as salary. for just a wrong parking. twice for me for this month. arrghh.

Also in my opinion every country embassy should provide housing to the maids and not 24 hours these maids should work...Morning 8 to Evening 8...Khallas...after that back to housing...Also thursday half day and friday complete day off...No restriction on using mobiles...but ofcourse during working hours only to work

Wow and how many hours they suppose to work and how many off days in a week? Yeah answer is unlimited & none. Wonder what Fifa saw to award the world cup to a modern slave system country :S

stop bringing maids...let the locals work by themselves...once they realize that they can not handle without the maids...then let the government in this case raise the salary of maids...if it is acceptable for the locals well and fine...if not forget it

In my opinion the maids should not work in local people house...lot of torture and the kids misbehave very badly with them

My only question is if they have such a hard and tough time paying decent and reasonable salaries to this workers when they themselves (the employers) are always demanding so much from the places where they themselves work then why dont they do the job themselves

And thew new airport was "expected" to open on Dec 12 2012, according to anonymous officials.

What they, the anonymous officials, tell us today with vague words like "expected to be in the range of..." may or may not turn out to be correct.

Let's wait and see what turns out to be the truth.

Brit has it right: QR700 far too low. Would any of you reading and commenting on this even get out of bed for this amount a day? A week? let alone a monthly salary. For in many cases, long hours and 6 or even 7 day working weeks and not always good environment an living conditions. Govmt should be ashamed!

Well I have no intentions of paying less than I'm paying.

QR 700- QR900 It is not even enough for 1 day pocket money for Qatari children . And do you really believe that they get same . you must be dreaming .

This is good to hear. You are paying for the services. Some people can only do so much with this amount. Simple math... good pay = good work(quality service), less pay = less work.

Two aspects to this..

Firstly, the reality is that "Many" people will try and get a maid at the lowest possible rates. Yes, we all on QL will always pay the highest. But the fact remains that many many people would happily spend 1500 riyals on a slap up meal, but not raise the salary of the maid.

secondly, if maids come in at this price, then they will be "tempted" to run away and work illegally to earn more.

Is this topic so controversial...I see many edits in just 3 posts...:)

Really?!

Good to hear that..

even if the government has fixed an amount between 700 to 900 per month, I know it for a fact that most western expats pay their maids double that amount and there is no way they would cut down their wages just because of some article in the newspaper..

The date of GT may be read as : 28/04/2013...:)

Sadly, it is all about supply and demand. For many , coming from developing nations will be happy with this..