To the Girl in Hotpants at Villagio

Max007 yes, the pay here is good, it is the only thing that is good.

I think what a lot of people who are criticising the young girl are forgetting, is that it wasn't long ago that woman wearing pants were considered sluts too. It's all a matter of perception. I think there are a lot more problems in the world than clothing. And coincidentally one of those problems is how humans relate to other humans. I say whoever is not guilty of doing "wrong" things can cast the first stone. I bet all of the men who were hassling the young girl have committed far worse sins than that girl ever had. It's funny though, in an "evil" Western country someone wearing short shorts is only glanced at by most passerbys, and looked at appreciatively by others, but in muslim countries she is leered at, hassled, and followed. Doesn't seem right that in an effort to keep the "purity" they break the very beliefs they are trying to enforce.

Davidak89 just show how "open minded" westreners are......btw u r not here volunteering but u r here cuz u get paid here better then u do in ur home country

Totally agree with justmoi, and maybe we should add in the fact that not long ago Qataris were nomads living in tents, and us 'westerners' gave them everything, and taught them everything, from oil, to buisness. We gave them this country, and now we are here fixing/building it, cause they are incapable of doing it themselves, to busy drive in shopping and what not.

how would ppl react if a bearded guy in thobe is walking in USA or london.......i know a muslim boy was shot in london bcuz he was "looking suspicious" and a woman was not allowed in courtroom bcuz she was wearing a headscarf. Now how can a headscarf harm or take something from anybody.

WIZZ14 GO AWAY IF U DON'T KNOW THE ISSUE?IDIOT

sod off! How can anybody forget they are here?

What a dick head statement. Only a wukfit!

Maybe she forgot that she is in Qatar

Get paid to write an article click here You don't have to pay for it. I will be the one to pay you.

justmoi: np :) I do agree that should be a compromise between nationals and expats for getting a middle term, once that they have to live together.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

I am not saying for one moment this girl was right in her choice of dress.

What I am saying, jasmine should have been the adult and defended her. And the male people who were 'abusing' her were wrong.

Let’s face it, over here, the males and females can be arrogant and dismissive of us, and yet we have to be so 'nice' to them.

I am a guest in their country so of course I respect their values.

On the other hand, we are building their country as they are not capable of doing so.

There should be some respect on their part. Allegedly their religion dictates it.

Globalization is a fact, nothing can stop it from keep going.

Now about African influence, Egypt is Africa, weren't we all influenced by Egyptian culture?

I may be wrong but isn't Amr Diab egyptian?

Justmoi: without intending to offend anyone, i can assure you that Good and Evil can be found in all religions. I would agree if you would speack about those men being arabs, their culture is the same only religion changes, but you'll see that christian arabs can be as conservative as any arab muslim.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

It is wrong to not wear seat belts.

It is wrong to talk on your mobile when driving.

It is wrong to 'flash' somebody who is in the right lane, but driving too slow for you the idiot behind them.

It is wrong to spit.

It is wrong for your kids to be in the front as human air bags.

It is wrong to throw your lunch bag, school bag at your maid.

It is wrong to jump the queue.

It is wrong to be totally arrogant to the people who are here as slaves building your country, because you are too thick/lazy to do it yourself.

It is NOT wrong to be a young girl in stupid hot pants to be ABUSED.

Imagine if that was your child. What would you say if your daughter left the house dressed inappropriately?

Then she was abused by the very people who you so obviously don't like.

Would you be so 'cool' then?

I doubt it.

sorry, no, I don't buy it....an adolescent would know right from wrong in their surroundings.....and its WRONG to wear effin hotpants in Villagio!!End Of!

Sorry justmoi, what you are saying just isnt true. Eastern culture is far different than Western and you cant limit this reaction to a religion here. After 11 years here I have seen it come from all sorts. To label a religion as the one with the most disobedient and unruly kids is just not even plausable.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Christians would have helped even though they may have disapproved. Jews over here rofl, if there are, do you honestly think they would make themselves known?

Amoud to be honest, if there was ever going to be any race/culture/religion that would kick off over 'hot pants' it would be Muslim.

u should know what u wear when and in wich places that s all especially in arabic country

Hold the phone a tick jusmoi. I agree she shouldnt have been attacked in this manner but how are you certain the men harrasing her are muslims? A lof of arabs (and no one even specified they were arabs) are Christians and.... Jews!!

I dont think you are justified in saying Muslims need to sort out their own kids first etc.... This is the sort of uninformed retort that gets tempers up.

_____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

She was a young girl, so yes it reflects her personality. She wanted to be trendy, young and daft etc.

As I have said, it was wrong, but she is young.

Forgive her. Somebody should have protected her.

For me, I would rather see a young person enjoying clothes than see a young Muslim child, spit at and then hit their maid or driver.

Why don't the Muslim adults sort that out?

Why not bring their own kids up better than pick on a young silly girl?

If we Westerners kicked off every time we saw a local child be rude, aggressive, spoilt and a downright brat, we would be shouting all the time.

it will reflects on your personality what are you wearing...

We have got the 'academics' in now.

The basic premise of this forum was; should Jasmine step in or not?

Yes, she should have done, in most peoples view.

I don't care if Qatar is 'behind' our so called Western 'values'. They are allowed to be 'behind' they are really only 45 years old.

Not insulting Qatar there at all, but it was 1964 when it started developing. In other words, they/some stopped being Bedouin. Therefore they are still to this day ‘old fashioned’, in OUR minds.

This girl for whatever reason and none of us know for sure thought it was OK to go to a shopping mall in a Muslim country and wear hot pants.

She was daft. She may have been new or naive.

My big thing is; why did these men shout at her? I can tell you now in England, and we are tolerant, if a Muslim lady was shouted at and abused it would be a racist attack. Over here it is not.

An adult should have gone to that girls rescue.

Even though I have given them ‘reasons’, i.e. only 45 years old etc. Just as much as we know their ways, we know theirs.

If a Western man had been rude to a Muslim lady that man would be out of here.

To me, we are held to ransom a lot of the time. Yes she was wrong, but she is YOUNG and wrong.

...if it is sold 'there' what's wrong in wearing it 'there' is ridiculous. It's like saying that use the guns where they r sold.

Life is Beautiful...Indeed!

With my comment earlier in no way was i saying that i support her wearing hotpants, my point was more general in that, we are told the country is conservative yet we see local girls and women dressing in tight clothing, lots of makeup, silly high heels etc which in the west are often seen as ways of further sexualising your appearance.

Westerners dream of the them being dominant while the conservatives dream of their dominance. Keep dreaming.......

Being Western I am naturally inclined to prefer the Western way of doing things and I feel that having liberal philosophy at the root of your social and legal codes is much better than having a rigid religion fill that role. However, out here I think we need to be very selective in the aspects of our culture that we promote.

All the cultural changes that are taking place now are driven by Western cultural values, whether it is food (McDonalds etc), fashion (Next, Mango), politics (the democratisation promised in the Constitution), education (switching to English as the medium of instruction in Qatari schools), "Press freedom" (such as it is) ... in every area the direction is dictated by exposure to Westernism or the demands made by the West. Can you name one single change that is taking place at the moment that is designed to align Qatar more closely with cultural traditions in Asia or Africa, rather than the West? I can't.

Ultimately - and not necessarily very far down the line, a generation or two perhaps - these changes will break the foundations that are seen as being untouchable at the moment - the union between "church" and state, the dominant role of religion in society and the existence of the monarchy.

There is no infallible yardstick to say whether that change will be for the better or for the worse. When a new equilibrium is established, those who live with it will for the most part consider that it is the best of all possible worlds. Westerners here today will consider that going in such a direction is a positive thing, many nationals - especially conservatives - will think it is unfortunate. But whichever side you take, I don't have any doubt that it is both inevitable and is a consequence of the cultural collision between West and East and the emergence of the West as the dominant force in spreading ideas. A kind of cultural Darwinian evolution in which the meme of Western thought is overwhelming Eastern ideas.

PM - I completely misunderstood you, then.

The rate of change in Qatari society is extremely rapid, far more rapid than anything we are familiar with, and I am sure the behaviour of Qatari girls is a matter of concern to many locals. It is all driven by stuff from the West, you never saw Qatari girls even in jeans before cable TV and the Internet arrived, and there were no boutique Western teen shops back then. I assume the local girls are modelling themselves on stereotypes from TV and the movies, I guess they are encouraged to push things as far as possible by what they see Westerners getting away with in the malls. And so the ball rolls on.

Fifty years from now attitudes and fashions will be completely different and today's teens will probably be tut-tutting over what their great-grand-daughters are getting up to.

If this has anything to do with the girl in Villagio, it is that she represents the extreme outlier of what local girls see Westerners getting away with and, therefore, her actions may encourage them to go one step further than they have so far. The blurred edges of acceptability that you referred to are made a tiny bit wider by her. Perhaps that is what made the men angry enough to challenge her - not that they necessarily care what she does but that she encourages their daughters to "go astray" as they would see it. Her daring, rebellious fashion choice takes on a new meaning as soon she goes out among the locals. I'm not calling it an awful crime, I am saying it is grossly insensitive and hardly surprising if it attracts unwanted attention. She really should have known better.

One of my colleague teanage daughter was taken to the police station for sticking her head out of the limosine and waving at passerby..

Some lady in the car did not like it and phoned the police and the bunch of girls were stopped a few stops from villagio. After visiting the Juvenile police they had to attend the court next morning where the Judge let them off with a caution..

Man this society is like a big Brother or a little Sister watching over you?..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Nope Uk Eng. Never wore a pair of hotpants in my life.

Gypsy have you ever tried hotpants? I mean not in public just tried them ever back home...?..lol

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HE WHO DARES WINS

Fair point, Gypsy, though I'm not sure we really know what the men "did". If it was just a simple dressing down (if you'll excuse the phrase) that's not so awful; the way teenagers learn the limits of rebellion is when their (overhanging) bottoms get kicked a bit, figuratively speaking. If the men were truly abusive and threatening, that is a different matter.

I don't think anybody has asked why some jumped-up security guard apparently thought he was entitled to take her ID card (and presumably note her details) which seems to me to be overstepping the mark far more than dressing "inappropriately" or simply telling off the person doing so.

Teenage rebellion is, by its nature, doing what is unacceptable to the old farts. This thread seems to indicate that there are some Westerners who psychologically are still in the teenage-rebellion stage, not against their parents but against the host society.

Maybe that is just what it is, a hard-wired rebellion against established order: instead of the "cool" in-thing being teen culture and the old farts being parents, the "cool" in-thing is Western culture and the old farts are the locals. If so, the "rebels" are unlikely to escape from their current thinking, because time will not automatically transport them to the "old fart" stage, which is what normally happens to teenagers. Well, it's just an idea.

I think what everyone is forgetting is this was a teenage girl and teenage girls ALWAYS push the boundaries when it comes to dress, make-up etc. (Western, Eastern, Qatari or Fijian) She wasn't thinking about the cultural issues she was thinking about how it would make her "cool" and piss her parents off.

What the men did was inexcusable, what she did was normal teenage rebellion.

There are some things that are hushed up, believe it or not :)

Look, if something insults people then the fact that some of their own people do it doesn't mean that everybody else should. We are guests here and I think it is simple courtesy for us to show respect for our hosts' feelings. Wherever you go, do you set your standards to be no better than the worst behaviour you can find among the local people? Of course not.

Some people like to spit on the street. Does that mean you are going to do it? It probably means that you are not going to get into trouble if you do, but it won't stop me thinking it is disgusting and thinking the worse of you for it.

Do you want all Western women to dress in a way that insults a significant proportion of locals? Or just some, to show that they can be as outrageous as any local girl? Or do you want Western women to get a reputation for being respectful and considerate, by not insisting on using the dress freedom that they have to upset a significant number of the locals?

I've known quite a few non-Qatari women who have been keen to involve themselves with Qatari men, including two who had babies as a result. One was a Filipina maid the other was a British housewife. Neither was expecting marriage or acceptance.

Since the topic concerns a Western girl, I'm not quite sure what your point is concerning the behaviour of Qatari women. Sure, their girls have a record of flirting, but I presume they know the boundaries of their own culture and generally work within it. I don't see how that is a justification for foreigners coming and flaunting themselves. Remember, Qatari girls have been killed for going too far and "shaming" their family. This is not just a matter of making a fashion statement.

Ten years ago a couple of French women were reportedly arrested outside The Centre for being dressed indecently, so maybe it is punishable.

I'm sure some girls/women don't think it matters, others want to show their Arab sisters just how liberated you can be, some do it deliberately to offend, some out of ignorance and some because they are tarts.

For some Qatari women I imagine it is quite distressing to see Jezebels flaunting themselves in front of the Qatari's husbands.

I saw a Western visitor in a Buddhist temple in Sri Lanka where they asked you not to enter if your arms and legs were not covered. She wore a bra and pants and a long, light, transparent gauze dress, thinner than a net curtain. Some people just seem to revel in causing offence.

Failing to show any respect for the local culture is a sign of ill-breeding, stupidity or arrogance. She shouldn't be harrassed - but by the sound of things she was asking for just that. Perhaps the security men should have refused her entry, but imagine the fuss her mum would be making here about that ...

so of a woman is caught wearing revealing clothes, is she punishable by law in qatar? can they deport her or even throw her in jail?

Let she who never committed a fashion faux-pas as a teenager throw the first stone.

Mandi

You obviously have no clue at how young Qatar is and that development takes time,(your comments about Westerners being needed) also, many older Americans and Brits that canot get jobs elsewhere due to their age, can find here thus they are able to have a safe environment in which to live and get good salaries tax free. I think with your attitudes you should find another place to live you obvsiously have very racist attitudes. Qatar Foundation is only a few years old and they are doing their best to educate and train young people. Respect for values and morals of a certain culture are world wide in any country you live in. Every country has rules to live by.

I hope she doesn't do that again.. She should've known better.. And I'm so sorry about the way she was treated.. This isn't right either..

[img_assist|nid=7232|title=Dua|desc=Amen :-)|link=none|align=left|width=440|height=56]

Roadster, it is posted in the malls to wear decent clothing, and I am sorry that if you move somewhere without first knowing where you are going (Qatar is on the Saudi border) you should make an effort at least once here to figure it out. Hot pants are a bit OTT in the mall but in the same breath I dont think she should have been ganged up on. ___________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Lol Carol "hotpants for development"

A mall isn't a church, the mall could just say in BIG writing what isn't and is acceptable. In the west we do get Malls/restaurants that do actually say no bare chests for men, no swim wear etc.

With saudi you know where you are, the problem here is that GCC females dont follow dresscodes here which makes it very difficult to know what is acceptable and what isn't to westerners.

Hmm, Carol I dont think it is a productive way of thinking that if foreigners are needed here they should also be able to impose their values and way of life on another culture.

I dont think dressing decently to go to malls is a bad thing, I have said before people should cover up a little more sometimes. Now if Qatar was forcing everyone to wear abaya and shayla (like Saudi) that may be a little OTT but in regards to Saudi, expats know these things before they go and still go because we all want their money.

Also if you go into any of the old churces in Europe you cant wear hotpants but this is construed as being respectful is it not?

__________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Really... I think the bottom line is that if the local people were professional enough to be able to make this palce work, they wouldnt need us here. So, who is the side to be blamed... the bottom line is...if we were not so necessary to make this place run properly... they would not HAVE to see us around in our horrific sinful outfits....

So, my tip is... learn from what is being done here by foreigners and then maybe we wont be so vital in some years time.

lol kim d spray on indeed

Nah, I'm sorry, theres no excuse...whatever country one is in...one does not frequent a mall in hotpants...there is absolutely no excuse and she deserves all the crap she got....scared or not.....

Qatari Stalker Jaunties..hmm I thought this was an Islamic country..lol

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HE WHO DARES WINS

I ,too, saw the girl with the bright blue boob tube in city centre,she could barely walk as her stilettos were so high and her jeans were so tight it looked like her clothes had been sprayed on!

I wonder where she thought she was-going to a disco??

>

May your dreams take you travelling all through your life.

That is why I feel these new fangled Qatari Abayas are made by "Speedo". The fabric is 50% acrylic, and are very stretchable. How else can the "abs section" of the Abaya pass thru the "bust section"?

And if they try it the other way around the "abs section" will surely get stuck at the hips!

BTW I love these Speedo Abayas!!

Jauntie: "I've NEVER seen an abaya so close fitting in my LIFE! I swear, if the girl had sneeezed the stitching would have split lol", now, that's funny :) rofl

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Fancy letting a 15 year old out in hotpants! Surely the girl would have more fashion sense...hotpants are sooo 90's.......and 70's....and errr 80's...

was when I went into Next. An older Qatari lady was yelling at the staff to make a young Qatari bloke leave the shop. I didn't understand what the problem was until I saw the woman's daughter - I've NEVER seen an abaya so close fitting in my LIFE! I swear, if the girl had sneeezed the stitching would have split lol

The young guy (in thobe and gutra) was obviously following the girl around the shop and her mum didn't like it!

Made me smile. :D

Couple days ago was an arabic female in bright blue boob tube and leggings with high heels she was with two friends in abayas walking bold as brass through city centre. Then day before yestreday was coming back to qatar arabic woman and her young daughter, who had open jean jacket with what could be called a large biking top on.

Both didn't seem to be gatting any hassle :p

as adage goes "When you are in Rome, do as the Romans do".

Qatar as a Muslim conservative country still follows practices that for them norms that are still acceptable are conservative dresses. We here being expatriates have no choice but to follow such, I believe.

Edifis, because jasmine sais she looked about 15.... so if you can still say thats anywhere between 6 and 40 you would need glasses or some serious lesson in visual perception.

Your posts are really ridiculous.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Seth, how did you know the girl is 15. The post says quite young. That to me is any age between 6 to 40.

Shem her parents and anyone who wants to get attention, should rember that Qatar is an atabic and Muslim Country.

"One arab guy was declined to travel because he was wearing t-shirt with arabic words"

I think many people have enough freedom in Qatar displaying proudly their non-muslim faith and so-called evolved mentality.

Whoever is not happy, he can go back to his better country with better salary and conditions than Qatar

Boycott Israel Campaign

I think that no one has the right to make the other person feel bad..not even when you "own" the place, I think that local people should also respect other cultures, I put myself in the place of that girl and she must have had a terrible experience. I know that we should be aware of all the culture and dress code issue, but obviously she wasn't.

I'll tell you something..in my country there are a lot of muslims, in Paraguay there is a city "Ciudad del Este"..and it is full of muslims..they have shops, stores, the women go to the mall and streets with their "local dress"..and do you think that someone stares at them as an alien?? do you think that other persons will go on them an said "why are you dressing like that?? you're in southAmerica! you can dress whatever you want!!"and give tham that "look" of horror. We treat them with the respect that they deserve, 'cause in my coutry we value the person 'because their intelligence, their wisdom, their culture, and their heart..not of what the're dresssing.. I know you'll say that we are very very very different..but i think before attaking someone you should think of how do you want them to treat you or your family, if you cross all the world to live somewhere else

Eve: "I went to Europe this summer and I would not be permitted in a church if I was not properly covered"

You are aware that a church is a religious temple aren't you? This girl was in a Mall, where, as leia said,

"in Paraguay there is a city "Ciudad del Este"..and it is full of muslims..they have shops, stores, the women go to the mall and streets with their "local dress"..and do you think that someone stares at them as an alien?"

Seth: this has nothing to do with Islam but with local culture. Islam is tolerant, i suggest you read the last post of Abu American in this page

"AbuAmerican said plato "Aishah (R.) reported ...

plato

"Aishah (R.) reported that Asmaa, her sister, entered into the presence of the Prophet (SAWS) wearing thin transparent clothing. So the Messenger (SAWS) turned away from her saying: O Asmaa' if a woman reaches the age of menstruation it is not allowed that any of her body should be seen except this and he pointed to his face and two hands." (Quoted from Al-Qurtubi's Al-Jaami fi Ahkaamil Qur'an)

It turns out this hadeeth is weak though so.. don't know what to think of it. None the less I would have done what I said no matter what.

It is well known that the Prophet was not harsh on anyone for anything but polytheism."

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

One day malls are for families, another day for rowdies.

anyways I came across this link

http://www.badfads.com/pages/fashion/hotpants.html

tolerance isnt one of islams principles is it?

Guys are monsters here. attacking a 15 year old girl? ffs spineless gits.

I will say this to you, if these men took a 15 year old girl dressed like that as an 'invitation' they are in big trouble.

As I said before, they should have guided her or at least got security to guide her. She was daft not bait!

PEACE BE UPON YOU,I am really sorry for her experience if she didn't knew the culture of this country but if she did know so it means she wanted more attention when she had such cloth on and she got what she wanted,plz woman for your own dignity and respect wear proper clothing her do not show the details of your body,men her takes this as an invitation

Like others have written you all know this is a Muslim country and you should be respectful. I went to Europe this summer and I would not be permitted in a church if I was not properly covered we all know the score some just like to push the limits. Lets be kinder and more respectful of each other.

hmm...reminds me of a song....altogether now.

Ooh man, dig that crazy chick.

Who wears short shorts

We wear short shorts

They're such short shorts

We like short shorts

Who wears short shorts

We wear short shorts.

In most of the world yes, over here NO. This girl was daft, her parents even dafter if they allowed it but the men were brutes.

So teenage girls are allowed to wear hotpants?

Parents should really watch what their children wear, i mean if your old enough to wear what you want that's fine, but letting some pre teen run aorund in hot pants i nthis country is asking for trouble.

escaping from mother for the day?

"Deaths in the Bible. God - 2,270,365

not including the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the

many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc because no specific numbers

were given. Satan - 10."

Abu: Thanks for the hadith. I agree with you if the Profet was quite tolerant, than, that's how we should be, tolerance is an important step towards the understanding between different people :)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Just read this in the Gulf Times today:

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=276042&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

If Qatar is working on allowing cruise ships to stop here you can forget about the enforcement of a dress code. Get ready to see more hotpants people.

hotpants are very good. Always wear them.

if you give your thobe, I am sure you will in starnge position, what do you think if you give her your white or my red gutra! she can have it with style!

awkhan

What would Allah do?????

Was it very Muslim-like to stare and jeer at this poor girl?

OR

Would it have been more Muslim-like to gently take her away from the testosterone filled circle and get her to a safe place?

The MEN should be apologizing here. The young girl was stupid, but would it not have been Muslim-like to find shelter for this poor lost girl?

Not one male saw fit to leave the circle and help this young girl.

What's that about?

At least it will liven things up and we'll have something to do now that Garveys is closed...

I was down at the Souq's last night and I couldn't get over how some of the Westerners were dressed, then it hit me..There tourists. Listening in on their conversations I realized that every last one of them were tourists, and I've seen more and more at the malls.

Well it's one thing to tell us residents how to dress it's a hell of a lot harder to enforce it on tourists, and I think as Qatar becomes more of a tourist destination you'll see more inappropriately dressed people like you do in Oman, Bahrain and Dubai.

you're still awake fadi... thanks for ur post and i appreciated it... and i don't say that you are wrong...

in my own perception, the bottomline here is im sorry but most of the arabs are hipocrate... why? they intend to be holy (special mention to the girls) but when they get out from their crib, they are more worst that the usual. especially when they went to europe... becuase the people there doesn't care about what u care... plus i used to meet some arabic nationalities and often pretending to be half citizen. see! now how will i call them? liers? pretenders? im not mad with this people... i just wanted them to be real and accept the fact that Qatar will soon be open and this is goin to be something like bahrain & dubai... otherwise u can't participate/hold some international events if u won't open ur eyes to reality.

Wow thats a huge post! Lads, lets be straight and honest about on thing and allow me if i will go a bit from the little girl's subject (which i totally agree that it should have been treatd in a more civilised way by the security personnel in Villagio)

# When we have decided to leave our countries and come over here, we should keep in our mind one thing! We are not in the US, not in Europe, not in Beirut. We are in an Islamic Country (which is not also Dubai), we are in Doha!!! i mean for God's sake, people over here follow a woman wearing a black robe (local dress) just because they feel like it! Bluetooth is used to hook up on chicks!! so what do u expect??

The bottom line is clear and simple! Just dont wear anything that might be concidered over limits! i do understand your need for freedom and to express your body! Well!!! honestly, doha is not the perfect place to do so!

Cheers,

Fadi

:D

They had a god for virtually everything - from War to Drinking to Love, etc

if I HAD gone to her rescue.

Sorry jasminejasmine, I can see you were apologising cos you are sorry you didn't, but I don't think I could have stood by if the scenario was as you described it.

Her friend left her! What was her friend wearing? :D

sorry if I repeated another person. I must have skipped through that one.

"What I don't like about this, this girl was 'abused' in my view, by grown men. All it should have taken was a local going to a security guard and asking for the girl to leave.

That's all what should have happened. Why scare the girl? She is young and therefore a bit daft. However, that does not mean she has to be 'abused' in public like this."

Just: that's what Abu was telling, even said that if he would be there he would borrow her his throbe, ;)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

people were ready to be aggresive with this young person. Local men shouting at a young girl is terrible.

Yes, I agree if her parents had seen how she was dressed should have stopped her.

I agree if she is a tourist, they know they are coming to a Muslim country so therefore dress with respect.

It's not that we don't have Muslims all over the world. We know how they dress and act etc.

What I don't like about this, this girl was 'abused' in my view, by grown men. All it should have taken was a local going to a security guard and asking for the girl to leave.

That's all what should have happened. Why scare the girl? She is young and therefore a bit daft. However, that does not mean she has to be 'abused' in public like this.

I agree with one thread, if in England, a lady who was covered had walked into a shopping center and was abused. That would be classed as a racial attack. So it should be.

Jasmine, sorry, I know you feel guilty, but yes you could have helped. I am not saying you should agree with how the girl was dressed but this was a young person being abused by grown men.

For me, I would have just tried to diffuse the situation by saying, yes she has done wrong, she is sorry, she won't do it again.

As for the Police. Yeah right, what a joke, what could they arrest you for? Coming to the help of a young person?

Abu: Thanks, i'll keep a close look on your post :) You can call me Ayman ;)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Abu: Good example, that's the kind of mentality needed to show that, as with all, there's good and bad everywhere :)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

that when we live in a foreign country that first and foremost read about its customs and traditions.better that we are well informed than be ignorant.

another,this is a muslim country,hot pants,tube tops and hanging blouses are not accepted in public specially in malls,souks and parks.

when in rome do what the romans do.

[mod note: english only in the main forum please.]

jasminejasmine - "think the girl was probably Western and looked about 15.... I guess teenagers who haven't been here long don't understand that. More education to people coming in is a good idea."

Agreed. The kids are just unaware. Could even be a tourist on holiday, right? Only those of us who are living or working here would be briefed or would have researched the cultural sensitivities. Having said that, of course, tourists should have also researched the place they were visiting.

Someone mentioned that s/he feels like whispering a warning to scantily clad ladies around the Souq, etc. But frankly, you'd be met with hostility. If they dare to flaunt their assets, do you think they won't fire you to your face for attempting to tell them what to wear?

*****************************************

Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

haha ok, thanks dragongfly..but what about my other questions...

Brit - I was wrong first time. It was Peter Kay, not Jimmy Carr.

hmm i got nothing against hot pants, guess we used to that type of thing back home. however as much as it sucks, there are rules and regulations and over here ya gotta abide or pay big time. feel sorry for the poor girl though. guess she wont be doing it again

Precisely, Saif.irq

"Giving up some freedoms (as with dressing liberally) not to upset social order is something should be given some consideration... Besides there is a great trick Arab women do, they dress like models liberally in their homes, parties and with their loved ones..."

With the youngsters craving attention, that's another issue. The reaction and scary experience might serve to remind the girl to be careful in future and be more aware of her surroundings. Hope no creep took advantage of her - because of her fearful, weakened state of mind. I trust she would have learned her lesson, traumatic though it was. If I was there, I probably would have tried to do something, call my Arabic speaking assistant or something, to get him to talk to those guys harassing the girl. Most times, it's the communication problem.

/Good example, Abu. I trust there are others like you who would help a poor girl in distress.

*****************************************

Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

leia have you ever watch the video clip from kylle minoque in Fever??? thats hot-pants.

Everybody is right everybody is wrong, it depend where you stand

hotpants? is that a very short -short-??or what? how is the proper way to dress in qatar? can we wear jeans? or pants? and what about t-shirts?do they have to be long sleeves t-shirts?...if i go there I should buy all new cloth before arriving..

Good on you Abu, I can forgive you now for double parking :)

I agree that she needed protecting (preventative would have been better but hind-sight is 20-20) and she probably indeed came away from that thinking all muslim men are animals (I am sure she cant differentiate)... Abu swooping in.... her hero in short thobe, would have made all the difference in the world of her future perception.

The jackasses were bullying her, trust me if it were a woman of proper age they would not have been so ready to jump on her, but they saw they scared her so the were a little reassured in being supreme assholes. _____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Thank you, Abu. You and jasminejasmine are my heroes for today!

Mandi

I just needed some attention. Thanks.

:-P

A young, scantily-dressed girl "surrounded by men complaining, security and bystanders" is a friendly, supportive group hug? Don't think so, Majnoon! I trust jasminejasmine's intincts when she reported being very troubled by the scene. But then, I wasn't there. Maybe it was all in good fun. I do let my imagination run wild sometimes. (And I keep my gun at home to shoot Bambi.)

Mandi

Its known as poetic license..

how did this go from "surrounded by men complaining, security and bystanders." to hostile, jeering, crowd?

“A lot of the people who keep a gun at home for safety are the same ones who refuse to wear a seat belt”

It wasn't Jimmy Carr.. It was a stand up comedian I heard in Blackburn of all places.:)

Absoloutely. I was uncomfortable with the whole situation, whatever the rights and wrongs.

Yes, I am a real attention seeker. Hotpants hotpants hotpants. I love the attention my computer gives me.

Yes, I'm sure she was inappropraitely dressed and yes, I'm sure she won't do that again. But I find the thought of a teenage girl surrounded by a hostile and jeering crowd of adult men absolutely horrifying. As were you, jasminejasmine, I am sickened by the thought of her terror and the men's self-righteous assesment of her sexuality. Does this scene remind you of another, more famous one of a woman caught in adultery? And what was the punch line that time?

Mandi

Jasmine - The reason for you posting this here is

A) You are having a guilt trip.

B) You know threads with "hotpants" in the title attract max attention and you love this.

C) Both of the above.

D) It is written. (Sorry couldn't resist. Go watch Slumdog instead)

She looked 15 you say. Most people learn how to behave properly in a society unsupervised by this age. I'd say she had it coming.

serves her a lesson. she wont be wearing any shorter than her longpants anywhere outside her bedroom from now on.

Why didnt the guards stop her? Guess the only real rule at the mall is "family day"

brit - how dare you try and pass a Jimmy Carr joke off as your own!

Abu: You double park vertically or horizontelly?

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

I have only read these sort of issues on QL.

Have seen many walkin around in miniskirts and low cut tops allover villageo and other malls without any prob.

______________________________________________

Listen to Many..Speak to a few.

Lol, Abu I was the lady in the silver BMW behind you who was too stupid to realize you were telling me there was parking on the other side of the car, so I waited like a numpter.

___________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Just watch for a whining post from the mom, complaining that her daughter was harassed at Villagio.

I used to see a girl at school (high school) who was always dressed inappropriately, at least by Qatar standards. And I'd always wonder, Doesn't she know where she is?? Also wondered if it was a case of leaving the house wearing one thing and then changing into something else when she got out of the house.

Then one day I saw her mom picking her up and I understood-

They were both dressed almost exactly alike.

Lots of cleavage, tight top with spaghetti straps.

Some people just don't get it.

Or perhaps they just don't care.

they are jealous

i am against arabs who seem to think tht ladies in hot pants are sluts or anything like that.

It is their wish tht they wear anything they want.

It is not against the law to do that hear.

the mentality of the arabs needs to change not that of the expats

Abu: lol, poor amoud :)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Amoud: ok, got it, shame on him (the security) ;)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Abu: Yes, i understand what you mean, please note that it was Carol that was wondering "if it was a muslin woman in her abaya being hassled like that by western men in a public place..." , i only explained that such thing would never happen here and explaining why that wouldn't happen here. :)

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Platao, I meant the guy bugging her was shouting to cover the fact he was being a deviant...

Abu, I think I was waiting for you to move your huge SUV last week at Landmark as you loaded your groceries.. were you blocking 2 parkings???

_____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Amoud: that would be even worst, she asks for help to a security and he starts shouting about the way she was dressed instead of adverting her that she shouldn't use those clothes without droving everybody's attention to the girl.

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

The hassll may also have been that someone was bothering her and she went to the security guards and he started on about how she was dressed to cover up his deed.

In any instance, I do feel sorry for her..... but am pretty sure it wont happen again as this can be quite distressing, especially to a young girl.

_____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

I think the girl was probably Western and looked about 15. The security guy had taken her ID card so must have seen if she was under age. In this clash of cultures these things are bound to happen sometimes, I think that the security guards should be given some guidance as to how to deal with this. I find it irritating when people walk around half dressed here because most of us just don't and it isn't a big deal but I guess teenagers who haven't been here long don't understand that. More education to people coming in is a good idea.

Carol: "if it was a muslin woman in her abaya being hassled like that by western men in a public place..."

That would never happen because people here are already used to see girls with few clothes, why would they stare and hassle a girl using an Abbaya? Just because men on that side of the world can't see a piece of flesh without having unpure thoughts.

yel_tiu: so, just because she was on an Arab country, not following the dress code, it's ok to shout or eventually offend her?

Only God Can Judge Me

الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي

I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer

أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ

Giving up some freedoms (as with dressing liberally) not to upset social order is something should be given some consideration by whoever wants to push it a notch. Conservative nature of this society and other Arab societies in the gulf particularly has deep rooted tribal traditions which coupled with some Islamic teachings to make up this kind of strict type of living style. Going against means you have to be ready for lots of unpleasant surprises mostly. Besides there is a great trick Arab women do, they dress like models liberally in their homes, parties and with their loved ones which seems to give them the needed satisfaction of priding their beauty I guess. I’m not preaching here just a simple advice from an Arab who knows the make up of mentalities in my part of the world.

The Mesopotamian

i appreciate the thought of your thread jasmine...

i'd like share almost similar scenario happens to my colleague during our lunch break. i went out the office with my collegues to take lunch. one of with me is a pretty-sexy-tall pregy colleague of mine, (if u were behind her, u won't say that she is pregnant), wearing over-all dresed line ending up to her knee. we separate our way coz ill be eating different meals. when we meet again in the table, she share this experience... there are three ladies walking behind her and one is calling her attention. she tought she left her purse or fone but she was wrong so she decided to look back into her. one kinda old lady speak arrogantly & scandalously and said, 'this is qatar and its written outside city center that wear appropriate clothes inside the mall... etc.' my collegues shake her head as her reply. when i saw them, i look around the food court and saw one white lady ( i dont know which nationality is she) with silk clothes and for sure u will recognize breast and nips, with black skirt above the knee using high heels.

the bottomline here is, it's unfair to tell that we asian are not legal to wear sexy clothes and european & other american countries are the only ones allowed... disappointing right?

Well there are little stickers on the door about wearing appropriate clothes...so security guards should have stopped her going in.

Just dress modestly..... you can look beautiful without showing flesh.

There seems to be general lack of common sense.....

ow, thaaat one..i think ill stick with rf:)

.madz- madonna, new face for LV.

.

.

another opppsss..**everything i need to know*** my mind is not working properly. sorry

malley, what's madz? heheheh...i read this line from robert fulghum's book. and i forgot which one was it (was it "everything i learned, i learned from kindergarten"? or from" it was on fire when i first lay down on it"?

I was at Vilaggio yesterday and saw a woman wearing a sweatshirt with 'Guess' on it.

I said Thyroid problem?'

at the ASD Friendship Festival, I saw loads of young Qatari girls wearing hotpants and shorts.. and yes they were qatari as I know one of them as a client's daughter... Wonder what daddy and mommy would have said if they had seen her....

"if you don't like the heat... get out of the kitchen... but stop trying to fan the flames before you leave... it will burn you on the a** as you go through the doorway...." ME

visit www.qaws.org

.

.arecel, is that a line from Madz?

stick and stone, blah blah......

.

.you can call me a sinner, you can call me a saint:)

oppppsss... **can break your bones**

sunset, words can hurt more than blows. and to be hurt like this in front of the general public is worst especially if she is still a teenager. "stick and stones can hurt your bones but words can break your hearts". amen.

Lol, Brit I can imagine that your fur lined thongs are leopard print as they will offset the snazzy interior of your pink Kia

____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Amoud is correct.. There a place for everything.. I wouldn't wear my fur lines thongs in public (even the beach).. Similarly, I'm sure, RP wouldn't be seen in Villagio wearing his leather chaps and long johns..

a bit of bum never hurt anyone.

U 50% right, coz she is in Doha, Qatar, not any were else, she of course knows well the traditions of an islamic country and she has to respect ppl here by wearing the suitable suit when she is in public places.

why 50% coz i am quite sure no body is going to hurt or touch her, all r going to be just blaming words which she deserve.

100% right if u see any normal lady and ppl trying to hurt her by any way, and u interferring.

i think this is humanity.

whatever. the girl is still young, should have been admonished gently, not ganged up by the rightious and pious citizens. hmp..hypocrites.

It is sold in the mall isnt it? How about a cocktail dress? Bikini? They all have their place correct? If you can wear a paii of shorts that show your ass cheeks is it much different than underwear? How about naming them panties? Does that make it accceptable..? Golly.

Even the guides and websites about Qatar tell you not to even wear shorts unless you are on the beach. ____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Eh, UNDER is the key word in underwear Amoud. Obviously you can't walk around in your underwear... *slap*

____________________________

Serves her right!To think her parents would let her out looking like a slut.....disgusting, she should be ashamed!

."hotpants" in public,

.

.be ready to braves a sea of wankers.

.

.

Well, it is posted at the door of the mall to dress respectfully, and the same old argument lies that it is terrible that they sell such stuff in the mall then you cant wear it in the mall. Come on, they sell underwear in the mall, with that logic you can go to the mall in your bra and pants?

I also hear the posters who have wanted to say something to someone to save them this sort of humiliation, but assured that if you went up to someone in the mall, or the souq and whispered to them that they werent dressed appropriatly you may likely get a curt "f**k off mind your own business"

This may have been a learning experience, as tough as it was. I hope the poor little lady didnt get too much of a going over but if she is that young her parents should have had better sense than to not let her go out like that (unless she changed into the hot pants in the toilet, then I assume she knew it may be wrong but was just looking for the attention).

_____________________________________________________

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

agree with you yel_tiu, thats why am currious what her nationality was? and why the parent never educate them whats dress code in this country.

Everybody is right everybody is wrong, it depend where you stand

agree with you yel_tiu, thats why am currious what her nationality was? and why the parent never educate them whats dress code in this country.

Everybody is right everybody is wrong, it depend where you stand

I was mobbed by the local males look you is it.... You wouldn't believe the offers I got..

I am now known as Dai the Hotpants in Doha...

am sorry to ask what you think her nationality is???

Everybody is right everybody is wrong, it depend where you stand

we are in arab country,,,, they must know what they need to wear here!!!! if she need really to wear that ,,,, she must go back to her country and wear ewhat she want,, even naked!!!!!!

What did they say to You when you wore yours? ;)

Most people in my company are complaining and scared with the possibility of leaving earlier than planned because of the slow down in the economy world wide... anyway, to me it is a bless... a guilt free reason to get out of here and live a normal life again.

I wonder what would be the repercussion if it was a muslin woman in her abaya being hassled like that by western men in a public place... what would this act be called? what would happen to these men and most important how the muslin comunity would react?

I agree that over here what we can buy we cannot always wear (well said before) and we need to be careful because local men seem to have a bit of a difficult to behave themselves in public with any sort of diversity.

Don't they seel those hot pant thingies in villaggio anyway? it's a bit off that what you buy there you can't wear there

____________________________

It's stories like this that remind me why I left.

Rest assures those men in pants were steaming and boiling with those bumming pants.

The problem is I think you’re an overeducated, 27-year-old virgin who holds the hands of superstitious old women and promises them eternity.

lately when I have wanted to go up to people (usually much older though!) and whisper a polite warning--such as last week with the woman in souq waqif wearing a halter top. I have also always minded my own business.

You would think that people would know to be conservative in a Muslim country, but obviously some people have no clue. Too bad we can't be given the DO's and Dont's for living in Qatar on a small card when we go through immigration after getting off a plane.

be careful of what you wear when you are in public :)

jamine

i understand ur point.

we'll just hope she'll be fine.

We've all been in similar positions.. Hopefully she will have been spared too much hassle and got home safely..

I think she was a kid, someone should have let her call her parents if she was as young as she looked. i agree that it is not worth it but still feel bad, people were right in her face and groups of kids were laughing at her.

As you said ... not your problem. If you dress to get attention, then get attention, what do you expect?

Please note I am not making a statement as to what we should or should not wear in public, I am just speaking from one human to another.