To the Bad Parenting of the children at the Marriott Christmas

I’m impressed, I need to say. Really rarely do I encounter a weblog that’s both educative and entertaining, and let me let you know, you might have hit the nail on the head. Your concept is excellent; the issue is something that not sufficient persons are talking intelligently about. I'm very joyful that I stumbled throughout this in my search for something regarding this.

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els,butterly,sabiabella,PM, novita and other girls here(sorry dont have the names now)

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU GIRLS.

I PRAY THIS YEAR BRINGS YOU HAPPINESS,GOOD HEALTH AND PROSPERITY.

butterfly,leave it, ignore this discussion,its not good for you to get worked up.

i too feel the same way if i feel i am being criticised regarding how i handle my babies.you are the mother and you know your baby the best.i hope u can save money as much as you would like.i pray for things to improve for the best for you insha'allah.

having your mother to help you out is the best for you and for heidi.she will be excited when the new baby arrives.my son is very possesive about my little girl.i thought he would be jealous,its the exact opposite subhan'allah.no one should by mistake even suggest or joke if they can take her with them, thats it, he wont let anyone near her.

whats your due date?when in august?my son's a august baby masha;allah.

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drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home

Novita, I want another girl, but if it's a boy I'll be also pleased. I only plan to work for a few months...Honestly, I wouldn't if it was too much of a strain on us. ANd I plan to have this one in Spain, because I think I will need my mother's help for the first few weeks. Haha, you might call me lazy as well :D

ELS, yup your riht. Why on earth do I engage in such garbage???? Silly me. Must be the hormones. Happy Eid to you.

xxx

Butterfly, maybe it's the pregnancy hormones, but honestly why are you entertaining this...just let it be.

It's obvious you enjoy your child and are very much invested in her health and care. Don't feel you have to justify it to others, most importantly your daughter knows.

Just ignore, take it easy, and have a happy new year.

And to the others (especially Han) Eid Mubarak!

Sorrt butterfly ... just reading anc catch up with this thread. Congratulation for the pregnancy. Let me know wether it is a boy or a girl :-) I do think you will hv to take it easy ... I know you want to earn extra pocket money, but i think now something else is priority.

Hope to catch u soon. xxxxxx

You are so funny. But in an irritating kind of way...

YOu know what. TOday I took my 16 months to villagio and let her run around the main areas, only asked her to sit quietly on the trolley when doing the shopping in carrefour, because it's dangerous (something could fall on her). If any one gave me a dirty look while she was running, well, what can I do? There are miserable people everwhere, I'm not going to be considerate to someone who doesn't enjoy a kid being happy, why should I? I don't enjoy the sight of miserable people...,maybe they should have the consideration of being away, locked in their houses.

Anyhow...She didn't knock anyone down...LOL, funny you are.

Not having a hard time at all. I can not imagine a better age or a happier time in my life. And I can thank God that I have had very happy times in my life, and when not, I still had my sense of humour and the chances of laughing at small misfortunes.

Tell me, are you the kind of person that gets upset by other people's happiness? You come across as such... But maybe I'm wrong.

Oh, and you were the one that said that kids are not allowed out of their sits EVEN IF THEY CRY. That's sooooo sad. If there is no turbulence, hostess distributing meals or drinks or any ohter danger, then why not? Certainly a kid crying is likely to wake everyone up and is much more irritating than laughter. ANd other passangers will welcome the fact that your kid has a good sleep afterwards. But again, you get dirty looks sometimes...THERE ARE MISERABLE PEOPLE EVERYWHERE.

PM, really that was totally out of line. Take your accusation somewhere else. Butterfly NEVER said she had trouble managing her children and how dare you insinuate so.

It's Deanne :)

"Sorry to hear you have such a hard time managing your child"

WHAT?!?!

OK, Pm...whatever. Happy EID to you

I hope when I grow old and grumpy I still enjoy children laugh and energy as much as I do now, if not more.

Are you being sarcastic PM?

just curious.butterfly didnt mention even once that she is having a hard time managing her child.anyway thats between you and butterfly else you will accuse me of defending someone once again.maybe i didnt get the joke hidden in it.my apologies.

but i do agree with you on parents disciplining their children and making boundaries clear to them and it usually works.everyones happy.

on a lighter and happier note EID MUBARAK PM and wish your year begins with happiness and good health.

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drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home

Butterfly you don't need to justify your parenting to people who don't know you, your child, or your parenting to that child. There are a million methods of parenting and I am sure most of them are fine.

Children running and screaming in restaurants does drive me crazy, I must admit. But, oh well that's life.

I don't think any parent would sit on their sit whilst their little ones wander around. YOu probably have forgotten by now that tots have an amazing ability to get into trouble if they are left unsupervised for a couple of minutes. Ha!

PM, if your grandchildren get cranky and cry on long flights, for god's sake, they should be allowed to move a little and take them for a walk (or even a little run!!!) up and down the aisles. TO make a child suffer that way and force them to sit for hours is just plain cruel. Get your daughter to do that, after a fifteen minutes of movement it's amaizing how they get wind down and are able to sleep for a longer while.

Dianne, HI :) I think you are right, I wasn't there to see how these children were behaving. But to say that they were just hooligans sounds a little harsh. I think is just a cultural thing. Where I grew up it is an usual thing to see kids running around in restaurants. I use to play hyde and seek with my cousins during those looooong family dinners in restaurats that could last for hours until past midnight. Same happens in France. I understand that other countries are not as laid back as southern Europe. I remember I used to get horrified at how mothers shouted at their little ones in other parts of Europew when shopping and stuff. There are too many cultural differences to be considered before accusing parents and children of being ill mannered.

Girls, thank you again for the good wishes. My baby will be due in AUgust. Charlene, I feel good I'm not the only mother that has had and unplanned pregnancy...haha! the little buggers can manage to break barriers, can't they!!! Women, be warned, they have tools.

Han, good luck to your friend. Tell her husband to eat cocopops for breakfast each morning :D

you don't make any sense at all! are you ok? How on earth can a 10kg tot knock down an adult?

Any parent that abuses children, neglets their needs or has problems with drugs or alcohol should be kept from having children. A parent that acknoledges his/her child need for movement in an 8hrs flight is ok.

Thanks for the good wishes girls!!!!

Butterfly...I do agree on the flight thing. Although I don't think children should be running up and down the aisles of the plane. I have seen many parents on airplanes that get up with their children and walk around on the flights and look at different things, go to the bathroom, etc. I think this is a polite way to allow children to move about on a plane. I don't want to sit in a seat for so long without getting up and moving, why should a child have to? I also agree with PM on bringing lots of entertainment though.

If a child is being just absolutely unruly, there is a reason. Why not go into a restroom, sit down at their level and TALK to them? Put yourself in their shoes to try to figure out the root of the problem. Most of the time, giving them this attention and showing them that you care about what is wrong with them, will in itself calm them down.

So many people on this thread seem to think that randr88 is complaining about kids just being kids. However, none of us were in the situation. We do not know if these kids were being HOOLIGANS or KIDS. It depends on ones tolerance. The idea that I've gotten from these posts is that no one here believes that there are UNRULY children. CHildren are a product of their environment and if their parents are not around to shape their lives, there are going to problems. There are unruly adults, there are unruly children. We don't live in lala land where everyone is polite, kind and mannerful. That being said, I think as the good parents that we are in this forum, we have the right to complain when we see unruly kids.

Oh and by the way, when someone complains about unruly kids, it doesn't mean they hate kids. Don't assume this. There are bratty kids.

It's Deanne :)

My thoughts exactly. If anyone had bothered to read what I post in the beginning, it was the parents not the children. Like I have said earlier, the running in planes is a different thread all together.

Happy New Year and Eid Mubarak!

Congratulations butterfly! Are you due in July, August? Only one of my four were actually planned. However, if it happened it happened. And it did three times, ha.

YIPPEE YAIEE butterfly

CONGRATS LOVE, UNPLANNED OR NOT ITS A BLESSING...because conceiving is no easy task for me so it is...

A NEW YEAR GIFT TO YOU...MASHA'ALLAH.

no, please dont take any meds, take good care of yourself and its the right time, dont worry.get out of the shock cos the morning sickness or nausea is waiting to knock on your door,insha'allah it doesnt.

i pray that all will be well for you and your baby, insha'allah.

infact today i am fasting and i prayed for 2 other friends of mine to successfully conceive (one is our forum member) and herer you give this lovely news.

EID MUBARAK ESL TEACHER

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drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home

Wow congratulations Butterfly!

Hope you are feeling well.

Such good news, well take good care of yourself.

Congrats butterfly! I hope you feel better. I know how that goes. My pregnancy was not fun at all. Totally worth it though.

But not meds for me, I'm just waiting and hoping it will go away.

YEs, Han, I've got your email!!! Thank you, SWEET...!

I'm back to work on the 7th Jan, looking forward to it, but I only plan to work for a few months, just to get some pocket money which I very much need. I have been spending too much time at home lately, feeling tired and sluggish... I found that I'm pregnant again and this time it was unplanned (yes, you can call me stupid!!!) so I'm still in shock, but nevertheless happy.

But not meds for me, I'm just waiting and hoping it will go away.

YEs, Han, I've got your email!!! Thank you, SWEET...!

I'm back to work on the 7th Jan, looking forward to it, but I only plan to work for a few months, just to get some pocket money which I very much need. I have been spending too much time at home lately, feeling tired and sluggish... I found that I'm pregnant again and this time it was unplanned (yes, you can call me stupid!!!) so I'm still in shock, but nevertheless happy.

lets all load ourselevs with antihistamines and get a good night sleep, in my case sleep all day long.

seasons greetings to you too munozchick.hows your little one doing?

thankyou for the eid wishes butterfly, i did mail you today.

when do you start work again?

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drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home

Butterfly...im feeling the same way. I think it's the weather change for sure. Feel better!

Happy Eid and wishing you and everyone else a prosperous new year!

Hope you get better. Funny, I have been feeling ashmatic myself lately, must be the weather and all the sand getting into my lungs. OH well.

randr88 if you are celebrating new years eve i do wish a peaceful new year celebration for you.

happy heart

drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home

If anyone had bothered to read my first post, it was about the parents not the kids. Also in later posts I made it clear it wasn't the children it was the parents lack of supervision of the children.

i am a little late to wish you all christmas but i shall still do so. wish you a belated MERRY CHRISTMAS..........

i DO hope that you enjoyed the day inspite of kids troubling.

i have been loaded with antihistamines so cant keep my eyes open. this was the best place to wish all of you.before i go to sleep again HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL.

but let kids be kids. BUTTERFLY if hiedi starts running then both my babies will do the same, i have no doubt about that.they will be chasing each other.

STHAKARAN you need to read more of TERRAMAX and RICHARD'S posting to understand when they are joking or when they are serious.

rest of us all are peace loving people and not mentione we just enjoy tearing a thread apart and going off track whenever we can.

this has been pretty decent and to the point.

kids can get wild if they see other kids getting wild...else most kids behave well.if you have been to benigans you will see how the kids are on weekends. they are all going crazy there with the other kids.

the more the crowd the merrier and crazier.it gets so crazy that i have to be with my son all the time to stop him from getting hurt because the other older kids want to play rough and push around.

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drive safe because someone is waiting for you at home

Butterfly...that was all i was trying to say. Thank you. SOME kids are too wild, not all.

Peep, A+ for creativity...now run along.

To be fair Munoz has a point. In this coutry some parents tend to leave their kids with their maids in public places. Now imagine the poor maid who hasn't been fed for about a week and can't barely stand on her feet, let alone keep up with unruly energetic children, situations can get a little extreme at times.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that they behave like hooligans but yes, some can be a little too wild just because they do not have the necessary adult supervision.

And stop getting all creative with Munozchick's name! Made me laugh but it's mean!!!

lol Butterfly ... will let you know if we survive tomorrow night... don't think we would stay long though :D

Oh, my apologises, munchdick must have been a typo it seems, oops! Never mind hey?

And offend me? No, never!

I do feel I am constantly reiterating here, but for you my little cranially void muno, I will (see, I do have the kind festive heart) they could not have been “hooligans!” (A tough and aggressive or violent youth; youth is the stage from puberty), I believe her/his it's statement to be some what exaggerated.

Peep...honey, my name says munozCHICK. I believe maybe you had a Freudian slip about yourself? As far as your dumbass comments about christmas spirits, you need to chill. I am defending RANDR88 and HIS(randr88, sorry for assuming you were female) right to his opinion. I do not think he is saying that children should be still mutes. He is just saying maybe they should be supervised. Had they been supervised, they may have stayed reasonably calm in the dining area.

Novita, Butterfly and others: I LOVE children and LOVE their energy and contentment. I honestly can't wait to see my son running and playing. I just think there is a limit to how much running around is done depending on the situation. Children playing in a restaurant does not bother me. Children unsupervised and acting like hooligans bothers me. I do not mean any disrespect to anyone here...except maybe peep.

I'm not going...can you imagine moi bringing Heidi along???? My daughter can't hardly sit still for ten minutes, she is loud, happy and loooooves to run really fast...I would probably get stoned by some of these guys!!!!

And I can't go anywhere without my daughter cos (hi terra!) I have nobody to leave her with.

You go Novita, and take the chains.

Red_Pope, I hope by "Corinthians" you mean the football club.

I am planning to turn up with my 5 yrs old and hubbby tomorrow in Chilli. But i think everyone here have different opinion about children in the dining table. This thread making me worry will i feel welcome tomorrow or not???

I should get the chain ready for my son then ...

Lets face, there are places and places.

I was talking the other day to a friend who had the "misfortune"of having to dress as Santa in a five-star hotel for an event aimed at kids. The poor guy had a massive hangover that day and he was telling me how over a hundred crazy kids run towards him and he managed to scape thru the service door with some kids hanging out of his belt. Of course you would expect kids to go a little crazy and over exited at the time. And so you would expect them to run around crazily in a christmas lunch aimed at kids and families.

I'm not saying let your kids rund wildly at all times everywhere. If those kids were REALLY vandalising the place and posing a danger to themselves and others then parents, hotel staff or other adults would have intervened.

Lets get real, guys, if you go to a hotel for a family aimed event then you will have to expect to encounter noisy kids running all over. I don't see what's the big deal with that.

If you want a relaxed meal choose any other day of the year.

I will be there at about 8pm and will probably be having a chat with motorcycle maniac Tyler. I will be glad to stand you both a drink. I would buy Terramax one too but I can never get the bugger to come out. He's too busy learning a tenth language and correcting everyone's syntax

LOL, another mud word slinging action with Tyler?

Chill PEEP, I'll buy you all the chardonnay you want, when I get there. Save your words and energy for tonight. Of course in friendly terms.

My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. So be it.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 16,

Those dark fermented spirits are good for the soul.

My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. So be it.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 16,

*quote.....Hmmm- which personality is coming out today?I will make my appearance about 8 PM at the pool table. Look for the motorcycle helmet.

Why? do you have sock puppets on here then? (people who have false accounts)and chat away to themselves and support their own posts?

OI,Rcihard123!How rude, Have you forgotten your manners? Mine in a glassof Chardonnay, I'll met you in the bar in ten minutes, and if you see a sour looking guy in the corner mumbling it is Ranter88, throw him a packet of peanuts, it should keep him occupied for a short while.

Hmmm- which personality is coming out today?I will make my appearance about 8 PM at the pool table. Look for the motorcycle helmet.

At what time?

My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. So be it.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 16,

day of hard work and intellectual banter, I am off to Rydges 11th floor for a little drink (sorry bbk). Anyone up for a beer or teo?

MUNOZDICK SERIOUSLY!!! YOU ARE TELLING ME THE GIRNCH Ranter 88, sat in the dining room, then moved to the lounge with these “hooligans” terrorising the place and did not approached a member of staff? Yet she was compelled to jump up out of her chair and shoot to a computer to post about it on a totally unrelated site!?

I am not saying children should not be undisciplined anywhere, where do I say that? You still on the Christmas spirit bottle? Never mind, ho Hum, you’ll get to the bottom of it soon and pass out with some luck .Nope, I agree and through courtesy to other, but we are talking about kiddy winks at Christmas time here. And no body else in the hotel seeing it as a problem but her, he he-she, It or what ever the sex of Ranter is.

This is the warnings I used to get from my parents when I was acting like a hooligan in public.

1- They call my name real loud with authority.

2- Mom's Eye contact, Oh boy, I use to get terrified, looking at mom's, hazel eyes change colors.

3- My fathers classical, Hand gesture and "come here finger, bending gesture in silence"'.

4- The dragging and pulling chair, "I knew in that moment, I was timeout" by my parents.

5- Lets not forget the speech of day from my parents.

6- and my brother clowning and teasing, "I told you".

I do give thanks for my parents for their unity and brain power in raising us, to be good people.

My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. So be it.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 16,

He's a guy not a girl. That means a he NOT a she! Anyway, I think he's right. We should love and value our children. That means giving a little discipline and setting some guidlines. They shouldn't be running around like little hooligans. The parents should be ashamed and so should the hotel. The hotel should have told the parents off. Everyone there is paying and should have an enjoyable time. Black mark to the hotel and the parents of the little darlings.

Peep...seriously...RANDR88 IS TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN BEING LEFT UNATTENDED. There, I shouted.

Butterfly...for the simple fact that these children could be wiping my ass one day...I'd like some that have been taught manners and were supervised as children. I don't want one that is wiping my ass and then gets distracted and decides to run up and down a freakin hallway. Thanks but no thanks.

You people think that RANDR88 is saying that kids should sit down, shut up and not make a move or sound. Get real. Shes saying to teach your kids some manners.

Ah Peep. I think you will find that randr88 is a male. No point in heaping insult upon injury.

So,miss Grinch, AKA Ranter 88, do you have children? Have you had that luxury? Felt the joy that hearing a child’s laughter can bring? Nope, you were sat there for over an hours seething and huffing and puffing in the corner at Christmas whilst these little happy souls scampered round weren’t you? Children as teens do not run round for fun, they are little adults, it is young children who do. There is NO way a whole hotel fun of staff and guests would let “hooligan!” (as you put it) run round.

Were you sat there like some soar faced Grinch with her face all twisted, muttering to herself, of woe betide and humbugs to you children for laughing and having fun? Christmas Hun, it’s a time we do hear children’s laughter and see their excitement...... Lighten up and enjoy life, laugh with the children and have fun to see their little smiles.

If you felt Repelled, you should retired to another room, you may say why should you? I say why should children refrain from being happy and showing their excitement at Christmas if it is only you who were offended by it out of a whole hotel.

Ahem: 'tore around' as in rip and tear, run amok,etc.

For what it's worth, I thought putting things in capital letters means you are shouting ;)

stharakan...no one is speaking "inhumane" about children.

I think children should run and play as they like. HOWEVER, when it comes to being courteous to others, this has to be instilled by their parents. Leaving any child unattended is STUPID. For their safety and others, its STUPID. Children have to be taught to have manners for other people...this is taught by PARENTS. Love your children enough to teach them manners.

I remember a story a while back about 2 guys driving near the corniche and they decided they wanted to throw their trash out at some foreign national workers. Thats INHUMANE. I suspect these were kids that were left unattended or with their maid at a mall while their parents did all of their shopping.

Randr is simply asking parents to be involved with their children and their upbringing. Don't sit in another room and leave them unattended. Damn.

they were tearing the place apart??? I thought they were just running up and down the hallways?

1/2Russian, 1/2 brazilian

What a Daiquiri!

LOL J/K

My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. So be it.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 16,

Hamlet, you are right. Children are expensive, loud and at times the can misbehave. Lets all stop having children.

Oh wait...if that happens, human life would come to an end.

Maybe not a good idea then...

Guys, next time a little kid is getting into your nervs you visualise yourself in thirty or fourty years. TOday's children will have to clean your a$$es, feed you and do their best for you to die with some sort of dignity. They will have to pay the bill for the increasigly ageing population and how we misuse our natural resources. I hope they will have learned some patience and tolerance from us when they were growing up.

Whoa there...

I have a problem with these children's parents who sat in a different room while the kids(not toddlers) tore around the restaurant. It is unacceptable behavior. Bad manners are bad manners no matter what. You teach your children by example. As the child gets bigger so do the problems if not corrected. I never said I expected the children to be little robots and sit quietly at the table, I do expect the parent to curb the children's behavior when it becomes out of hand. It is not up to the restaurant staff to raise your child, it is not up to me to raise your child either.

?

Sorry, but I had to laugh at butterfly’s sign off written in caps.... "Anyways, I'm out. Have a nice day CHILDREN!!!"

st harakan,

One of the hardest things to do is get a feel for what someone’s mood is when they post and things can get lost in translation to text, especial humour and a western one more than any, we love wit, sarcasm and it can come across wrong, that is one of the main reasons for the introduction of smiles, this site does not seem to have that, it is difficult purely by text alone.

Using caps lock is to make a statement in a word in a sentence, but if a whole post is written in it, it can come across as aggressive,it represents shouting. I find a whole post in caps lock hard to read as you tend to not seen the punctuations and there are no immediate distinctions for the start and end of sentences.

and along hamlet's line...you can't sell your kids into slavery or even identured servitude any longer....what good are they if you can't make a few bucks off their labor or by pimping them out

Hmmm- which personality is coming out today?

Dears...no need to fight, to close the issue i declare that it is better not to have children from the first place, they are costly, messy and noisy....

Starkhan, racism has nothing to do with that, in fact indians and europeans belong to the same indoeuropean race, just in case you don't know.

The fact that "English who write something which they themselve dont understand" doesn't mean that one should follow this example. All "rite" "cos" "lotsa" in this forum come exclusively from pakindians. To me writing like this means to show no respect to others who will have to decypher this "pigeon english".

Now whether it comes from poor education or from lazyness, I don't know, but one thing is true - your arguments will not be taken by anyone seriously, same as when you write in capitals.

Peep, that's again the manners problem. If she behaves like this online, she will behave like this offline. And it will be her kids who will be noisy and misbehaving, because their parents have no respect for others.

Regarding the rest, most of indians here post in poor English. I believe this is what they have been taught at home or back home. This is their problem, not their guilt.

Come to get together for what? To see you and others of your ilk? I am definitely off to Qatar Blah Blah.

Terramax was making some sort of joke about australians or something.

I don't know, I quite don't get terra's sense of humour.

Anyways, I'm out. Have a nice day CHILDREN!!!

*Runs out to make popcorn………….okay, back, any one for popcorn?

Starakhan, do you see the difference between what I wrote "50% of expats here come from a country which was officially settled by convicted criminals"

And between what YOU claimed that I wrote "50% OF THE EXPAT COME FROM COUNTRIES SETTLED IN BY CONVICTED CRIMINAL".

If you don't, then it's back to school, my CAPITAL friend.

richard, I only saw your comment after I posted mine...

I think richard was only joking...

I was making a joke. If you are too stupid to understand that is your problem.

Richard123, criticise? Heaven No, never, I merely questioned if both hands were typing and whether he was fully concentrating.:)

We cannot judge by one person’s perception alone here, it was a buffet and the children were bouncing with excitement, as it was the Christmas holidays. Who knows how bad they really were! And if they were running round for “over an hour” surely the Staff would have asked the parents to restrain the children if they saw it to be too much, it is their reputation they must maintain, and a restaurant manager would have been on duty, Plus an hotel manager, to have gone from dinning area, lounge and up through a hall would suggest they passed numerous staff and gusts, I for one doubt if all those guests just sat there and said nothing if it was “so” bad, plus, to use the word “hooligan” portrays a Grinch. “Oh humbugs” should have been written in that post too.

Maybe its that uptight northern European, American protestantism thing. In my experience southern Europeans enjoy their children more and include them more in dining out and other family experiences. Maybe because they feel part of the occasion, they behave better.

Here there are too many nannies and too many crappy fast food places and too few nice restaurants that have facilities for children. In the words of the great Carlos Santana "Let the children play"

OF course I'm biased. I'm certain children do not mean to behave badly and would be absolute angels when given the chance and the praise and when adults make sure that their needs are met.

That doesn't happend that often here;.

Ok, let me give you an example. I was in the City Centre yesterday, and there were kids running unattended up and down over the escalator, one of them started to slide down on the stairs as if it were a mountain, and his shirt got caught by the moving parts. If I wouldn't have picked him up fast enough he could have had his fingers cut off, when he was trying to release his shirt. Aside from causing everyone else on the escalator (including elderly people to call). His parents were not even around. Is it what you call normal kids behavior, happy childhood etc?

Two weeks ago we went for lunch to the Intercontinental.

After a while my daugther decided she had enought of sitting and eating and it was time for me do something about it. OF course there were no play area inside the restaurant, so I asked a member of staff if I could go outside with my daughter to play whilst my husband finished his meal.

They wouldn't let me, they kept saying that the garden facilities were for members only. I tried to explain that she would be a nuisance for other customers but the staff wouldn't help so I asked to talk to the manager. The manager wouldn't help either. So I went to speak to the spa manager. To no avail. I had to go upstairs and talk to some other manager until my daugther and I were allowed to go the the play area outside.

Richard123, 50% of expats here come from a country which was officially settled by convicted criminals... what manners would you expect from them?

I kinda (sorry Terramax) agree with you but wonder if you are not a little biased seeing as you come from Spain. I used to live in Madrid and would take my daughter to restaurants when she was 3. The staff were brilliant with her. They treated her like a little princess and made her feel very important. The barman would make up a faux cocktail and the waiters would pay her a lot of attention. As a result she loved going out and soon learned to behave really well. I have noticed that in Spain in general, children are treated very well by restaurant staff, and that they generally behave very well even at dinner at 10.30pm. I wonder if there is a connexion.

Nobody seems to have noticed that the restaurant itself should have certain rules for general entertainment. For instance if I was to stand on the table and scream, I would be possibly kicked out. Or if as an adult I was to go to others tables and push against their chairs disturbing their eating, I would also be told to curb my activities.

However, when it comes to children the restaurants seem to say nothing at all to the parents & nannies?? Why is this? I don't understand the restaurant manager's attitude here. Public places should be for all to enjoy, old, middle, and young. Areas are usually set aside for kids to run around in, but the faults seem to lie with the establishment as much as with the parents and kids. The staff should intervene delicately at first, and with an iron fist later. But that doesn't happen here, so we live with it.

As a mum of 5, I like kids being able to participate in everything, but not to the detriment of others. On airlines, they often separated me from my kids in seating (and suffered the consequences) - and I couldn't get them to change the seating no matter what! Why do they do it I ask.

Having said that, there are some really lousy kids, and lousy adults. Sometimes they are related, sometimes not. Great kids reflect great parenting I think, but not always. There is always a chance of an independent thinker doing his/her own thing at a very early age, and causing much grief to the parents at the same time.

Be thankful you can sit down to eat. Some folks got nothing for Christmas.

Angel.

This attempt at English is intolerable and writing only in capital letters is inhumane. Also I don't understand the point. This makes me sad (Hi BBK).

I'm just guessing.

Anyways, I'm think ppl is taking things out of proportion now.

Given the challenge that is to cope with the toddler in an restaurant I think most parents only choice is to take their children to tot-friendly stablishments where there are areas to play and climb. Unfortunately these places lack in the nutritional department and quite frankly, there are not the ideal place for a family christmas lunch.

I'm sorry for any family that took their little ones to a venue that was advertised as family -venue only to find lack of tolerance and flexibility from the adult customers.

As far as I'm aware, toddlers run and jum and do toddler things. Eating in a restaurant can be a very unpleasant experience for the child, the parents and the rest of the customers given that tots haven't mastered the skills of waiting and sitting. ANd given their short attention spams you can only keep them entertained for so long.

To expect a tod to behave like an adult is unrealistic and will surely have a terrible effect on that child's sense of self-worth.

Richard123, numinous has rather German roots...comes from one of the Rudolf Otto's unreadable books.

Maybe I am just being a dumb yank but I seem to recall Peep criticising my friend Terramax's English. Maybe numinous is a quaint English tradition that no one told me about.

Two words: TIME OUT. Really, it works. There is tolerable play at restaurants. I don't think the poster was saying that the kids should not play at all. Just that they should play in an appropriate way for the area. The Marriot is huge. Shes just asking that they not have been allowed to run amok in the dining area.

There are limits to everything. There is normal kids behaviour, and there is misbehaviour, when it becomes disturbing to everyone, and I think it is easy to distinguish between them.

we r in public restaurant, how could we expect no kids around us ????

we r talking about eating a buffett.....? not private dinner ....

if a kid is not running around in restaurant....they must be not happy or sick...or something else....

when we were kid....did we run around ????

why do we impose adult standard to kid ????

my be the kids also allow to impose their standard to us ???? to be fair...........!!!

I did have to smile at stharakan forgiving randr88 lack of tolerance on his age; it is very much on what we perceive as “tolerable” this was over the Christmas period wasn’t it? and in a country that celebrates it? if so, i.m sorry, but I for one love to hear children playing and getting excited over the Christmas period, It is a time parents also wish to see them enjoy themselves, and do not wish to place to much restriction on them.

Agreed that it is in a public area and consideration must be for the guessed too, but in the same token, adults should at least have the intellect to understand them too. After all radr88 has had numinous Christmases to have realised this…. actually, quite few.

I agree totally!

Charlene...well said!

I think the point that was trying to be made is that the parents should take control. I'm nots aying to sit your child down for 20 hours and not say a word. Find other ways to entertain them in the mean time. If they need to tire themselves out, let them run around...but only if it is an appropriate time/place. Also, children should not be allowed to run around in a food court at a mall with no supervision. Its ridiculous. Its selfish on the parents part that shopping is so important for them that they leave their children alone especially when these kids are doing things to harm each other and other people around. Like I said before, there is a play area in the malls...use it.

Butterfly...yes the person was concerned about their meal that night...Christmas is very important and it wasn't much to ask to have a nice dinner. Yes, it was a family event, but NOT at the buffet! I believe there was an area for these kids to run around. I understand about the plane. Kids should not be allowed to run up and down for hours at a time. Its rude.

Where Im from, children are not allowed to run crazy in all places. There is a common courtesy from parents that in a restaurant they should keep them occupied. The rules are not set by the restaurants, etc. They are set by the PARENTS.

I've raised four sons and in my experience children do what children are allowed to do. Quite simple really.

Children are beautiful but some times can get on our nerves !!!

it is in children were gods presence and glory truly resides. you speak as if u never been a kid. give them a break. wait till you become a parent. arent you happy that dis hooligans u calling, is gods hands telling u of ther is hapines, love, and hope. behind dis busy life in doha.

peace pipol

just wait you become parent to dis kind kids u hate.

Butterfly, also try lollipops or some special candy on hand for those extreme times of toddler tantrums. It is amazing what something sweet will do to quiet down a child who normally may not get candy. It has worked for me!

Butterfly, fortunately when they were that young the longest flight we took was about 6 hours, and they did pretty well with activites I brought with me! This is not a new idea! No need for drugs!!I see parents do this all the time! When we came from the States we had over a 15 hour flight, luckily in Business Class so we all did great! At that time my kids were 4 and 6!

Where do I start...

First of all, the original poster seemed more concerned about his own needs of having a quiet meal in a hotel on CHRISTMAS day than the safety of those kids.

Of course parents first responsability is to make sure that their kids are not in danger.

These Christmas events in hotels are normally advertised as family events, so one would expect to have over-exited little kids running around. If you want a quiet meal, then choose any other day of the year, when parent's only choice is to take their small kids to McDonalds and feed them junk until they are old enough (and not before the age of three) to know how to behave in a proper restaurant. Really, you have 364 days to have your quiet lunch in a Hotel buffett restaurant.

OK, next:

Zakmama, are you honestly telling me that when your little ones were two or three years old they would sit still for eight hours straight on a plane? wow, I mean oh WOW!!! Were you putting Valium into their bottles or what? Ok, where is the catch?

Munoz says: "I don't understand why parents let their children run up and down airplane aisles though"

Ok, I'll explain to you why. Imagine, your kid is tired and very very frustated, you have been in the airport for a couple of hours or more, got into a plane and sit your toddler for another hour until taking off and drinks have been served. You can tell a masive tantrum is brewing slowly like a storm. As a parent you see the signs of the tantrum coming. You desperately want to avoid the tantrum, you want your toddler to get rid of some of his frustration. Yup, you let him run up and down the aisles, because walking wont be effective enough. If he runs long enough, maybe, just maybe, he will get tired and he will sleep a long nap on the plane.

We have experienced many times kids running around and not following rules, such as no food allowed in the play area, but they are not enforced by parents or the management of the restaurant, especially Bennigans. There is no point in having rules if they are not enforced. Again I think there are real cultural differences in expectations of childrens behavior

Stharakan...yes, some kids are hyperactive...but not all. Oh and by the way...I'm 23 and the kids that are not watched get on my nerves as well as my husbands. There is nothing wrong with teaching your children when and where is appropriate for activity. There are parks, play areas at malls, yards, play areas at restaurants, beaches, school playgrounds, sporting events, etc. Plenty of places to be wild. It's called discipline and alot of the kids here need it. And no, they are not all arab and frankly where they're from doesn't matter. Manners should be universal.

The kids that were running around me at Hyatt were endangering my son. They were also hurting each other. No parents to be seen. Don't expect other people to babysit your children. Also, there is a huge play area in Hyatt and the rest of the malls here. There is no need for kids to be running around in the dining area.

ADD and ADHD are fabrications of the pharmecutical and parental industries. If these were real issue sthey would have existed for generations and not have just appeared in the last 2 decades. Get over the excuses, stop pointing fingers at all the reasons why your children are misbehaving, and spank the crap out of a disobedient little runt running amok. Fix you problems through education and firm handed discipline not medication or excuses. These problems were invented by inattentive piss poor parent s to excuse their own inadequecies in raising children.

Hmmm- which personality is coming out today?

I like kids, I enjoy their energy, imaginations and lack of guile. There were other children at the Marriott who were well behaved. Go figure. Running around a restaurant with hot food and drink is not appropriate for safety's sake alone. Why should I be subjected to misbehaving children? These kids ranged from around 4 to 8 or 10. The younger ones were taking the lead of the older ones. With running in an out of the restrooms and splashing in the indoor fountain, you have to agree that is a bit much. Manners and socialization are taught by caring parents.

As to letting you child run around on airplane..that's for a different thread.

Well, if it advertised as a family-event it is to be expected that kids will run around and play.

That is the way it should be. But with parental supervision! (And not in a way that makes everybody else want to leave the premises.)

Kids will be kids, but... there is actually an illness called "Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder" and parents with hyperactive kids should really get their children tested if they are more "hyperactive" than usual and not just brush it off as if it is normal behaviour.

- and don't load your children with sugar...!

And don't expect everybody else to love and adore your children just because you do. :)

C.

Oh by the way why dont you put your hyperactive child in a active sport, so they can release their energy! It really does work for hyperactive kids. However there is a clear difference between hyperactive kids and kids that are undisciplined!

I am a special ed. teacher, so I am very understanding of children that have special needs. I do think culturally people are very different on how they raise kids, and I respect that. My concern is when the safety of kids are in question of them hurting themselves or others around them. IT HAPPENS! Hyperactive kids generally dont think and just react. This kind of child needs more attention! I do not agree with you about being stressed out parents and just need U time! Please take some responsibility for yourself and your kids! If you need U time book an appointment at the spa, don't bring them to the mall!

I can see all points of view here.

Yes kids will be kids and play, however letting unruly children run wild when surrounding people are trying to enjoy peace and quiet is uncalled for.

Kids learn from their parental teachers and if they are allowed to run riot and ruin peoples fun then yes the parents are to blame for not reigning them in.

Not everybody wants to listen to kids screaming and shouting regardless if you are a parent or not, if you cant control your children in a public area to a certain degree then you are not being a parent.

You're born, you take s**t. You get out in the world, you take more s**t. You climb a little higher, you take less s**t. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what s**t even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake son.

Thanks munozchick! You seem to understand my point. I am not real strict, but I have taught my kids to follow certain rules depending on where we are. This makes it possible now for me to take them just about anywhere and know they will be fine. All kids have meltdowns, and any parent can relate to this, but to ignore what your child is doing so you can shop or socialize is just rude and inconsiderate to others around you.

Kids are kids but manners are manners too. There are appropriate places for kids to run and play...a buffet is not one of them. When they come to a point where they are banging into my stroller, thats a problem.

Letting a WALK around on an airplane for a few minutes is not a problem as flights can be long. I understand this. I don't understand why parents let their children run up and down airplane aisles though.

I agree kids are kids, BUT kids must learn to distinguish where they are able to run around and NOT! A restaurant is not the place. Usually there are designated play areas for kids, and that is great. Children should be able to run around and be active, but at places that are appropriate for that! A buffet at a hotel where there is hot food and drinks being served is just not the place or is an airplane! Yes they all learn eventually, but self discipline is an important skill to have in life.

people complaining about kids being kids and behaving like what they are: kids.

Since when is a small kid expected to sit still for an hour? of course they will run around in restaurants and malls.

I hate it on the plane when people give me dirty looks because my loud, over exited and happy child can't sit still and I allow her to run up and down the aisles.

Isn't christmas supposed to be for kids? A family event? Kids will eventually learn that running in a restaurant isnt polite and as they grow they will be able to sit quietly and have their meal. In the mean time, give them a break.

Unfortunately there are parents who do not discipline or teach their kids how to behave in public. It is easier to say "yes" than "no" and to have appropriate consequences for negative behavior. It is a problem in a society where you see more nannies with kids than parents. I am sorry you had to deal with that on Christmas!

These kids were Western Expats with a nanny who wasn't in control at all. There were a couple Arab kids who were well behaved, we gave them our Christmas crackers(they were happy with the paper crowns)

I am glad others notice the misbehavior of kids here! My own two kids aged 5 and 7 are always asking why are they allowed to behave in such ways, and I just let them know that everyone had different ways of teaching kids right and wrong. We are slowly getting used to it, but I am always concerned about the safety of the children running loose without any parental guidance.

Not surprising at all. I went to Hyatt yesterday to do last minute shopping. I was sitting in the food court. My 6 month old son was in the stroller and I was giving him a bottle. There were 5 kids running up and down the area. They were pushing each other in a stroller and throwing each other out of it. They were hitting my sons stroller and he was crying. I told them to stop in Arabic and they laughed at me. There were no parents or maid to be seen. About 20 minutes later, a maid sat down. She IGNORED the kids. Didn't do anything about it. It's infuriating.