Australia - What do you think?
Prime Minister John Howard - Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. 'If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you', he said on National Television
'I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option', Costello said.
Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should clear off. 'Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off', he said.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'
'However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.
This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!
Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.
If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like 'A Fair Go', then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.
This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.
If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU chose.'
But then again, that is because you were raised in a multicultural and harmonious country (for the most part).
We tend to be VERY tolerant of those different from us....but realistically you cannot expect the whole world to be like us....especially because we NEED more citizens in Canada, and a LOT of other countries don't.
Which is what puzzles me so much....I would defintly not blink if an old European Country was so closeminded and wanted people to shove off....but a country like Canada or Australia needs peoeple, and was built on immigration....it just surprises me to see this attitude expressed by their PM.
I am not for allowing Sharia rules or any other "special" laws for each sub group....but I am also against what Howard said, and more specifically the MANNER in which he chose to express his patriotism!
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Depends where in Italy, I mean, you don't want them tearing down some ancient building to build a mosque (though I don't see the issue with Chinese lanterns :S).
However in North America and Australia, heritage sites are pretty few and far between since the countries aren't that old.
I completely disagree with the idea of instiuting Sharia in Australia or any secular country, but is it just me that thinks the rest of the speech is taking in a bit too far? People immigrate to these countries for a variety of reasons. There's a lot of Sundanese refugees in Australia, that are running to escape conflict in Sudan. These people have been through hell, forced to leave their home, to expect them to change overnight and adapt to Western culture and learn English overnight is absurd.
Vancouver in Canada has a HUGE Chinese population, and in many areas of the city signs are written both in Cantonese and English, also most of the RCMP and city cops that patrol these areas speak Canto. This isn't because the Chinese immigrants are refusing to try and learn English, but because we don't assume learning another language is a piece of cake. These people are citizens of Canada and we should try and make their lives easier if we can. Many of these Chinese immigrants bring elderly parents with them. It's unreasonable to assume a 70 year old man or woman can learn English quickly.
What is the harm in allowing a woman to wear hijab if she works in a government office? Or requesting a female officer if she's pulled over and wearing niqab? I don't know maybe I'm just to liberal and accomodating, and don't see the harm in trying to make my fellow citizens lives easier.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
i would never live in a country where i wasn't prepared to learn the language. thats why i wouldnt live in south korea or japan.
thats me thats my opinion.
i am not talking about indigenous populations that is another thread.
i am talking about cultural identity and the right to preserve it.
in italy some areas have banned chinese lanterns, the building of mosques etc because they dont want the integrity of their towns changed.
are they right to do this?
to what extent should we adapt and what extent should we preserve?
any other good stuff to talk about out there
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
aww thats it... i just got on the computer
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
It's getting late as it is, and i am not here to create an arguement or win an arguement.
Just wanted to say something and that is what i have done.
Good night... or Good morning
yep yep im from americana
the land of the free and the home of a bunch of obesse TV watching rednecks with more time on there hands than opera has food...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
I think you are accusing me of things that i haven't said and of making generalisations. It is howard who made the generalisations as Muslims, targetting muslims
The racist kangaroo is Howard
hold on just a sec
you said that if majority of natives took the test they would fail right?
so
they were born there... and they have adopted the laws...now if you take this test and give it to anyone trying to enter the country and they fail the test ... either it be muslim jew cantonese japanese... then how in the hell is that directed towards muslims
now your just scrapping...
mexicans have been saying this for years to america because they wanted to get out of mexico... and the only way is to pass a test... so they screamed that this is racist against mexicans...even though a japanese imagrant has to take the test also...
its to keep the whole world from migrating to one country all at once... the test is there for checks and balances
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
I think its time to kill this one???
You can't teach experience...
it's always targeted towards immigrants, but in actual fact towards muslims.... it's usually the case in UK.
Until now UK didn't need this citizenship test, nad allof a sudden it does coz of the nonsense going on. YOu ask majority of the native white citizens to take the test, I would say atleast about 80% would fail. I tried this with various colleagues of mine back in the UK and none of them pass it.
Qatar or the other arab countries wouldn't have it, and if they did have a test it would probably be in english as well.
hahahaha nah were just racist americans hahahahahaha
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
qoute*
And I guess one could say that all Muslims are Australophobics because you hate them; but then where would we be with this kind of ignorant generalization?*
you would be in front of noddys computer
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
sorry i broke that down crayon style
hahahahaha
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
UH... wow when you say you racist kangaroo... that implaments you your self are being racists...
thats the same if i was to say
get a life you rasicst N-word... thats just wrong... and stupid... so yeah its racists...
now if i was to say
get a life you racists ...
thats not that bad... see were gaining ground here...
look what im getting at is simple... if i have rules in my house that state you can not wear your shoes and you come into my house and you say
"i am american indian i have to wear my shoes in your house"
i would tell you
" well that sucks... you can sit on the front porch"
because those are my rules...
now lets flip the tables
if i came to your house and you had a rule that everyone had to wear a red hat
i would say
"OK"
and then i would wear a red hat...
HOW HARD IS THAT...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
It's only freedom of speech when targeting muslims. I would like ot see the same speech targeting westerners in another country... then see what happens.
Mugabe did something like it, look at the response he got.
Get a life you racist kangaroo
well lets see... the country already spoke english... and not islam... and you want it to change... that doesnt make since...
if i move to mexico... i would learn spanish and the mexican law... if i move to france i would learn french and the french laws...
now whose being racist... because acording to you if you move to another country everyone must learn your habits and your language and your laws...
well the world doesnt revovle around you... ouch ... that was a burn
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'
We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!
What if this was the case here in Qatar, and we are told to learn the language i.e. speak arabic and follow the culture
Come on..... this speech is specifically targeted towards Muslims and telling them to clear off from Austrailia.
Pure Islamophobia, joining the rest of the so called modern world
Sick and tired of this rubbish....
Learn Islam in its truest form before you start criticising it.....
your a flipping genius... you keep stealing the words out of my mouth...
except for the fact that i didnt know that qatar had both sets of laws in place... hhhmmm sounds like it can make for a major loop whole when it comes to being punished...
sounds like its time for some one to come in and fix that... ONLY JOKES... I WAS KIDDING...
but as per mir and noddy thats what america is good at... hahaha wow bad joke...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
i think i may be missing the point of what you are saying ... but it looks like a cheap shot on americans...
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
wiat a tick... mir were you talking about american indians.. if so... then my post was on point...
if you are talking about India indians ... then disregard my last post about indians... actually maybe its better that you read it anyway
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
'I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option'
Turn the table round, if the westerner would prefer to have a so called democratic country (that invades other countries for their own selfish benefits, and is not even bothered about killing its own civilians) rather than the sahria law then clear off and go back to your democratic countries.
Doesn't sound good does it
we grow up and move on...
i mean what would you want for me to do... start a riot and tell george bush he owes me and my family money because the resorvations they gave us werent enough because they ruined our way of life... (oh and on those reservations we have pretty much free range to do as we please)
thats just stupid... we dont forget we just dont have the narrow mindedness to be idiots and act a fool over something some one elses ancisters did
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
jeebus...
i chewed that up like some sour bubble gum
ok
what i was saying is simple... if you have your own standards and "laws" dont expect a whole country to bow down to your needs just because you entered the country...
john howard has the right to keep anyone out of his counrty if he wants too... exspecially some one that would do something that is not justifiable in the courts of that country...
ok im done
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
Indians --- forget the past easily ;; Let the country go to the dogs
after reading what you wrote...
"If a Muslim feels they must live under a system called "shariah" -- even though what is called shariah can be widely varied depending on local culture and tribal custome -- then they should go to a country where that exists."
i think you spoke for the both of us...
i mean if there trying to get into a country that has a better economy and better living but want there old world culture and laws... THATS JUST TOO BAD...
if i wanted to smoke pot... and im from holland... and i decide i want to move to america... i just lost my right to smoke pot... enough said.
i understand that back in the day when europeans ran sacked america and stole the land from the indians we basicly did just that and made our own laws...
but... that was hunreds of years ago... and im sorry but i am part indian and i dont care that my land was taken...
now days everyone realizes that it is wrong and unless you take over in office of what ever country you are in... then you cant just expect to be treated like your more privalaged...
wow i just reread that and im jumping all over the place... if it didnt make since i will reiterate
Australians are known for their racism, after all they are a country made up of English convicts, you wouldn't expect much better. According to howard's comments all westerner's should leave this place. How many times do the westerners complain about Islam and the Qatari way.
I dont have to confess at all...... Believe me I have many friends from the west i dont have any hatred against them at all....Is the policies that govern that creates that hatred that expectations cant be met with?
Thats the truth.....
You are cordially invited to visit my Confession booth, but "Don't ask me personal questions or expressed others things of your interest" Just confess your hatred.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
Abba, Abba, Padre!
You can't teach experience...
THey arent generalisations For every thing there is a success and failure now the majority fall in the latter bracket.....
Based on that i made this comment...U didnt have to take it personally..... at all...
Some idiot on QL started another post ABout Saudis opinion regarding Dr Phil, and most of the people on phils show need psychiatric treatment.... Its ridiculous and u r saying about my attitude about the west is wrong Cmon..when people are wrong they have to be corrected and that is regardless of their nationalities or backgrounds or castes thats why there is a legal system to address such issues.... 2) there has to be a utilatarian concept ......The greatest good happens in the society where each one gets what he deserves....
I know several professionals in Australia who drive cabs and still return with unfulfilled dreams.... One thing is important its not the race that is brought up here but it gets sensationalised because of lack of tolerance on account of either of the parties.......
John howard whether be it Austalia, the UK or the US all ask for qualified people to work like slaves in their country Thats because we attained independence at very late stages......
" Some facts are true about the aborigines,about the red indians in the US, there are inhabitants everywhere We mix very easily with the western culture but the reverse never holds water. Look aussies are overbearing characters.... Tell that idiot to drink fosters and jump on the wall like a kangaroo a dozen times... US is US Freedom and equal oppurtunity for all....."
The person who posted this thread was angry against the policies of the west towards the Muslim Shariahs, not me, & in support of that i made some of my opinions..... Whose side should I choose? In support of the Majority or Minority communities?
wow the obscenities are back.... wooo whoo...and its about politics... count me in
so some one fill me in because 3 pages of useless posts dont help much... PM? can you fill me in... im bored and this looks like fun
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just hanging out and watching dvd's with helen keller... kind of a quite night.
YAY for the separation of Church and State...:)
You can't teach experience...
Your point is clear and very neutral. That is a big problem in the USA, they have too much liberalism in many aspects.
The Red Pope of Qatar Living
Abba, Abba, Padre!
Haa I dont understand this whole racism and terror issue Both are so complicated and very subjective........ Involves real analysis...
Think of qatar you can immigrate here gain residancy yet you can never be a citizen, you have to abide by the rules here,so quite frankly I fail to see your point
so why does Australia want more immigrants?
On the one hand they say they want immigrants and on the other hand they say you walk according to our rules?
Seems like they want to have their cake and eat it too.
over the differance of immigration and citerzenship. Providing you pass the immergration process you are eligable to immigrate to australia this does not however give you immediate citerzenship this is applied for once you reach Australia and you have stayed there for a period of 2 years it involves taking an oath that you in which basicaly state that you agree to abide by the australian laws and regognise that Australia is a british sovrenty. The trouble at the moment is the immigrants who are creating the problems are NOT Australian citizens.
mir, I've never seen you so worked up before...lol...your right about one thing, he is an ass****
'Our freedom is but a light that breaks through from another world'
I'm not exactly sure what the immigration rules are, but I do know that it is based on a points system. If you are a professional in a field that is seen as an area of need in Australia, eg Doctor, then you recieve a certain number of points. There are also age restrictions, if you are looking for citizenship then you must apply before your 45th birthday.
What are the rules for Ozzie immigration?
mir83- were did you get your info that most of our labourers are indians the fact is our labourers are mixed the unfortunate thing is most indians wouldnt get work as labourers in OZ as we have pretty tough OH&S laws and you are required to have a "ticket" before walking on to any site in OZ.
angel_eyes - I have one more interesting fact for you Australia is abb. to OZ because to so many people its like the wonderful world of OZ somewhere over the rainbow.
first of all calling them "red indians" as you did is racist in case you didn't know it. Having actually lived on indian reservation for a few years I can tell you things you don't want to know about how they live and what they do by their own choice and not because of what the US government has done.
How well do you and people from your culture actually mix with the westerners in western countries...so you mean to tell me that they are fully integrated or do you mean that you mix well by staying within your own circle but utilizing the same public places?
Yes, the US is about freedom and liberties but not for a few at the expense of everyone else. I am the son of an immigrant to the US and I spent 14 years of my life wearing a uniform to ensure that my children live in the kind of country that my parents fought for several years to get into. There is no other country in the world as welcoming to foreigners as the US, but I'll be damned if they think that they can change it to fit the environment of where they left...they can certainly go back to where they came if they don't like it. Bleeding heart liberals need to find something constructive to do...you too.
Some facts are true about the aborigines,about the red indians in the US, there are inhabitants everywhere
We mix very easily with the western culture but the reverse never holds water. Look aussies are overbearing characters....
And some part of it is equally true about the kicking out of immigrants because of their acts of terror and violence...... But there has to be some room for compatibility..... Tell that idiot to drink fosters and jump on the wall like a kangaroo a dozen times...
US is US Freedom and equal oppurtunity for all.....
what Christians lost their faith in God...I think you mean atheists don't you...because all the Christians I know call themselves Christians because they believe in God. ...and what thousand years back are you talking about...read a history book or something...or use the internet for something more than blabbering crap.
What an assol? He is speaking about tolerance.... When the Australian big brother show airs on paid satellite the whole world watches but when serials on ALjazzera, Star network airs only the Indians & pakis or arabs watch.....
And the moron is blabbering about tolerance..... Half the immigrants are indians hard working migrants in australia.... The christians have lost their faith in god although i condemn such acts of terror yet there is zero tolerance from both the arabs and the aussies......
Multi cultural rubbish... What happened to the aborigines? Arent they natives of Australia? Why were they kicked out by the brits thousand years back??? Where is democracy?
My opinion is that the statements made by the Australian PM are appropriate for any sovereign country to make. He is referring to people who have applied, for various reasons, to "immigrate" to Australia and then want the laws and society changed to fit their accustomed way of life. They are given the right to buy property, change jobs at will, receive education for their children and in return they want to overthrow the government? Perhaps they want to live like they do in Iran...but if they do, then why settle for Australia when they can have the real deal just as they want it by moving to Iran, or Saudi for that matter. Funny thing is I haven't met even one Muslim expat here that would even consider moving to Saudi except for pilgrimage...I wonder why that is?
The 'attitude' that made them as progressive as they are now, why more and more people from different countries/nationalities are trying their best to get their citizenship to live and work in Australia.
I'm not saying that this is the right attitude. But I am wodering how they keep their economy booming as ever. One thing for sure from this dialogue, they are expressing 'PATRIOTISM'...
WEIRD & INTERESTING FACTS ABOUT AUSTRALIA
- When it is daytime in Ireland it is nightime in Australia. When it is winter in Ireland it is Summer in Australia. It would not be unusual to find a family eating their Christmas dinner on the beach!
- An Akubra is a special Australian hat with a broad rim, usually made of hide. Cattle farmers and other outdoor workers wear an Akubra for protection against burning by the sun.
- The world's oldest Flower in the world was found in a fossil near Melbourne. It is called the Koonwarra plant, and it has two leaves and one flower. It is believed to be 120 million years old.
- The world's fastest growing tree is the Australian Eucalyptus. It can grow up to 10 metres in one year.
- Half the continent is given over to sheep rearing. In 1987, it was calculated that there were about 150 million sheep in Australia, about 10 sheep for every person living in the country. No wonder that Australia is the world's largest exporter of lamb and wool.
- Australia is not connected by land to any other country and so it had developed its own wildlife. The kangaroo, the koala, the emu and the kookaburra are among the creatures found only in Australia.
- Britain discovered Australia and as a result used it as a place of imprisonment for thousands of convicts and political prisoners. About 160,000 of Britain's unwanted were shipped out there. Many died on the high seas during the eight month journey.
- Of the 160,000, about 45,000 were Irish, leaders of the rebellions and risings of 1848 and 1867. After serving their sentence many settled down to a life of farming in Australia. Today a large part of Australia's population is of Irish and British descent.
- Australia has a "flying doctor" service, which provides emergency medical care to people who live in the "outback". Without such a service many isolated people would die.
- There are actually four types of Boomerang - the "hook", the "hunter", "the club", "the V". All were used for hunting and warfare. Only one of the four will return when thrown - The Hunter.
- Dideriedoos are instruments common to Aboriginal. The playing of the Dideriedoo has been proved to have definite health benefits . It stimulates the mind, enhances blood circulation, and is great for stress relief. It is played as background music in some doctors surgeries .
- Australia is the smallest continent in the world but the sixth largest country in the world.
[img_assist|nid=28861|title=believe and u will see...Life is as simple as we make it complicated|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
PM - like those points u rasied!
oh gosh I am agreeing with you! - time for the weekend LOL
123 is not going to Habanos... just a red herring 4 u SL!
I thought you are off to Habanos today :)
I'm off to Scandinavia. See ya!
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
But leave people with this:
" If everyone was to Judge a country by what is said or written second hand without having first hand knowledge, then we would all beleive
All Americans-are fat and stupid
All Indians-are unhygenic and live in garbage tips
All Muslims-are extreme terroists hell bent on taking over the world
All Women from Scandinavian countries - Enjoy sex
just to name a few. To judge a country or person based on these princables is what is wrong with the world. Each country has its good and bad I do not claim that mine is a perfect country nor do I always agree with its politicans but, in my country that is my right and if you dont like what my country has to say or what my country beleives in then I ask you to please stay away." Mis-Cat
yi\ou show how little you know about Australia, in Arnhem land were unless you are proven to have aboriginal ancetory or are permitted to you are not allowed to travel into and here they are allowed to practice there own laws outside of the laws of australia.
isnt all waht you are saying about immigrants true about eh the anglo saxons in Australia scarlett and in your own country?
The so called anglo-saxons occupied America killed half the Indians and now lord over them.
The criminals from Anglosaxon, deported to Australia took over the place from the locals and brought about their own rules there.
And now to talk about other immigrants not to ask for what they want!!!!
All Hypocrites or worse than that
that a majority of the Quotes were mainly made by our Treasurer not our PM and a majority of the content of this article was written by a jurno and are his opinions.
Thank you for putting the words right.
there may be strict-uneducated muslims all over the world including my country. like a woman may not want to a male doctor to go check make surgery etc. or stupidly think westerners-christians are all bad and sinners. but that kind of speech wont help to change this. he shud find other ways but that wont help him get votes probably..
also world is going to that division. muslims vs west. i think it is planned. to keep the war machine work. as it was mentioned above, only one religions followers are causing problems all over the world.. it is bullshit!! i m a muslim and i can live any part of the world with peace including saudi arabia:) i have religious friends and i believe they can do so too..
i m not religious, i m not defending or supporting islam. but i clearly dislike hate speech against anybody.
Richard123 is a wannabe Brit.
Stop it SL!
I am just helping my good friend 123 with his 'Blame it on the Brits' campaign.
He is welcome to blame this one on me.
"I was sick of SL calling you."
Home Sick? Love Sick????????????
I like morning call to prayers. That is my alarm to wake up:)
I flushed it down the loo because I was sick of SL calling you.
I can't find my phone. It is somewhere in the office insh'Allah
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
You may come to this country if you so wish but just don't infringe upon the national laws, languages or religions..
Too many times its happened that one natinality/religious group, basically takes over an area in a country..then starts to demand rights that are due to them as they had in their original country. That's wrong...they came to whatever country it was, enjoyed all the freedoms that were offered, then slapped them in the face. If where they came from in the first place is so great, and they can do whatever they choose according to their religion or laws...then why not go back instead of trying to change another country to fit themselves?
No problems with immigrants but do have issues with immigrants coming over and trying to change government laws, religious laws AND the language. And that goes for everywhere not just the US. Goes back to the old adage...When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
I like the call to prayer for some reason especially when the moon is clear in the sky!
However the other morning at 4am there was a replacement. He whacked up to full volume and started. it sounded like he had had some old woodbine cigarettes before his 'turn'.
It was Allllllllahhhhhhhhh (hack cough hack) Akkkkkkkkk (cough splutter) bbbbbbbbbahhhhhhhhh (cough hack splutter)
Oryx _ Ok Sorry for the interuption:)
you can run but not hide Richard!
pm him SL - don't hijack my lofty thread.
He didn't answer because I grabbed his phone and wouldnt' let him!
Richard123 - why you didn't answer my call?
thanks
Firstly my annoyance is when women's rights get compromised because people are scared of being called racist.
That is my dilemma...
honour killings
female circumision
etc are not things i want tolerated at the the expense of being politically correct.
A girl with UK citizenship should be protected by the full extent of the law regardless of her ethnic origin.
This just doesn't happen.
Secondly I have just read an article about the Chinese in Angola.
It is in all countries.
Freedom of Speech - yes but to what extent?
You hit the nail on the head, 'within the limits of the constitution'.
But those limits are not always respected and I don't like that.
It is an issue in most countries apart from North Korea....:)
I notice that a lot of comments flying on this topic are probably from "non Australians"
I'm Canadian - but I simply do not have enough knowledge of the topic to comment. Many of my Canadian colleagues have commented on Australian affairs (I suspect) without ever having visited the country!
Its an intersting topic: but please - at least research what you are commenting on before you post!
I think you have hit on the major topic that defines our time. These days with a transient global workforce and easy international travel cultures and religions clash constantly.
Conservatives like Howard want to preserve the past. They want a predominantly white Australia with an Anglo Saxon culture. There are many in America and the UK and the rest of Europe who want the same thing. The values of a culture should be preserved. Values like, free speech, separation of church and state etc but within the limits of the constitution of a country you should be able to do what you like without censure from bitter old dinasaurs.
I think Vasquez is spot on though. If you want freedom and tolerance you have to give up political correctness. It seems like a fair trade to me.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Mahatma Gandhi
if you look at it in one angle most of these problems have cropped up after the Australian governments involvement in Iraq isnt it?
What Howard is doing is similar to what Bush is doing in America.
Create a fear psychosis and make sure people vote for you.
The sad part is Bush can only have two terms which is over by now.
Howard has multiple chances to keep continuing.
But looking at media reports it looks he cannot save himelf from defeat.
from your other post I would say you are fairly uneducated if you were indeed in Oz at the Time of the so called race riots you would know there was fault on both sides and it was Cronulla the riots started and at not BONDI . The law is not racial but certain factions in australia wish to practice Religeous law that is what the main argument is about for australia to allow this would mean that then everyone should be allowed to go about practising law according to what they believe. This would mean (and sorry if I start ranting like a lunitic here) but Peodophiles can rape young children because they believe this is right, Serial rapists can rape whom ever they please because its what they beleieve, hell lets just release Martin Bryant and Ivan Milat after all they believed in mass mureder, the simple fact is this unfortunatly our Prime Minister is not always as eloquent as one would wish for and sometimes what he says is misconstrued (hell i dont know a head of state who has not been in this position, Remember when Bush said they had to bomb Iraq because of WMD's what he really was saying was we need to control the oil.) the fact is to allow a small contingent of a population to go about practising there own laws means that you have to allow everyone. this then creates a state of chaos were we all might as well do as we please with no regard to anyone else.
This crap has been going on and on for years by the wonderful Howard government, and all it HAS done is promote racism in Australia- with so many Australians thinking that ALL Arabs are terrorists- which of cause the right-wing government denies.
Let's not forget the wonderful detention centers Australia have to offer to so many immigrants!!
Australia has always promoted itself as a multicultural country and sadly over the last 12 years we have seen the government turn this around- the positive is that finally, finally, after all these years, people are seeing Howard for the monster he is!!
I for one can't wait for the bast@#$ to finally lose this election...oh lets just hope he loses his seat as well...hehehe
'Our freedom is but a light that breaks through from another world'
Again I fell this is an attack by someone that knows little or nothing about Australia. We allow everyone and anyone to believe what they want, in NSW (a State of Australia) alone we have several mosques and synagones ( I have yet to see a church here) so to say we want people but are unaccepting of there beliefs is simply not true. What our Prime Minister is saying is we will not allow a small proportion of the Australian public to follow there own rules and as stated before this includes the murder (and i use this word because the taking of someones life other than your own is MURDER) because it is allowed because of faith. Australia's laws are such that they do not infringe on peoples beliefs unless that belief causes harm to someone other than themselves.
All this stuff is for votes and nothing else.
First these people invite you to become their citizens promising the moon and now they say they want you but not your beliefs.
Why dont they just say only specific nationalities or beliefs are allowed.
Hypocrites
Well i'm no scientist, but what happens when you pour a liquid on to ice? Most of the time you can see a tiny bit of steam (depending on the amount of blood) as the blood is warmer than the ice =p
But hockey is so much more than just violence on ice...it's got a beauty unrivaled in any other sport....but then again I may be biased....just check out my avatar! LOL
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
I respect all religions and also the athesists. Everyone has the right to live by his own beliefs and ideas. Even if he dislikes the people of other faiths and as long as he does not practices his hatred or speaks of it, it is fine with me.
If someone drinks or commits adultery, it is his own choice. As long as he does not harm me or others with his ideas or spreads his ideas of hatred this world will be s safe place to live.
Lets keep our hidden dark secrets to ourselves lest we want to be accused of racial hatred.
I don't know, I've never bled on the ice myself, or been close enough to see someone elses do it.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Is it true that the blood bounces on the ice?
I know! I wrote hockey first but then I realized some people might think that I was talking about (ugh) field hockey!
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
You have been living in the gulf too long when you have to call it ICE Hockey! LMAO ;)
Stay safe.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
"guys i am not posting anything on this thread unless I see come concrete facts" to me which means if its in the media it is true unfortunatley in the west most have learnt the media is not always right and will only print what they truley feel will grab the most attention. I also stated that I did not have the FACTS and would never presume to do so.
We have similar laws Mis-Cat, youi can do whatever you'd like in Canada as long as your children play ice hockey. THere are no exceptions to this rule.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Its nothing to do with revenge.
World has become a little bad place than those times and need to be cleared of all unwanted elements. And those elements could be of any faith and religion. I am not for just one faith targetting.
My views would remain the same for LTTE hindu terrorists in srilanka, or for any islamic once.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
Beign a Muslim, I agree with Australian Persident. It is there Country and one should follow their rules and regulations. Also in Islam it is not allowed to do anything without the owner's permission.
As very well said: If you don't like the culture then find the one which suits you.
Otherside just Imagine, If Muslim Countries (Majority of them who do not follow true picture of Islam) start implementing strict Islamic Laws such as; All women living in Islamic state should wear Islamic dress, No Disco or Alcohol, No Pork, No preaching of Any religion other then Islam, No nudity on ther open beaches ...
How this will sound to Non Muslims ??
the new test for acceptance into Australia are as follows:
MEN
Must be able to mow the lawn on the downside of a hill wearing a pair of wet thongs, a blue bonds singlet and blue stubbie shorts, while drinking a stubbie of VB and smoking a winnie red and listening to the cricket. You must also b willing to change your name to Shane or Darrel (to which will be abb. to DAZZA)
Women
Must be able to push a pram while 8 months pregnant and carring a 10 month old and smoking a long beach ultra mild, down to the pub to pick another case of VB and place bets at the TAB for hubby. Must also be willing to change name to Crystal or Sharon (which will be abb. to SHAZZA)
skdkak
Dude you know how it feels to be accused or to be threatened? So why do you want the same to happen to others. I hope revenge is not on your mind
mis-cat
Its true all my facts come from the media. I dont have the time, money and power to go and ask people for the facts. I guess research is the job of media people. So if you are one of the media people and have facts to back you up do let me know of your sources and then my posts would be different
guys i am not posting anything on this thread unless I see come concrete facts
What bad luck you have wished for me is already happend once and I know how it feels. I was not the culprit but the one among a particular community in a muslim majority area.. we were only 4% of the population and still were not tolerated by them.
We all were asked to convert or leave within 24 hrs or die.
So... ur bad wishes doesn't effect any more. Had to start life all over. Absolutely no problem now. I and my whole cummunity is better of now than we were there.
For your information.. random checking is for your and my consumption. Its called cracking sleeper cells and very occassionally these things backfire.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
Sarcasm aside....those that do not live in multicultural societies probably don't know about ethnic communities or enclaves....I have cousins who live in the middle east and have only ever seen a China town in movies!
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Well perhaps this is the first big influx of people Australia has had, but in Canada we've been integrating communities for decades, the Chinese, the Indians, etc. They all want things to change so they are a little more comfortable and we do our best, within reason, to appease them. Makes Canada the delightful mosaic that it is.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
I do not want to discuss terrorism, that's why I said lets NOT derail the thread....I was simply trying to point out the slippery slope of curtailing freedoms in the name of fighting terrorism....something OUR neighbours to the south are learning the hard way!
Stay safe all
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
you Talk about FACTS as if you actually know what truley happened yet you yourself say you need to do more research. The Truth is if your FACTS come from media reports then i guess it is safe to say that your are only reporting what you believe to be true without knowing the full extent of the case. The Fact is I would never presume to know what is really happening nor ever would as the case to which i assume your refering to is still ongoing and to my knowledge there is only hearsay from the media (as no official report has been made public). I am assuming you have never visited or lived in Australia so please do not attack a country which you yourself admit you have little knowledge of.
quoting skdkak
"Bud Luck for them"
So the next time when they come to you I will say bad luck for you
Sometimes I feel some always learn the hard way
Ragna Ragna Ragna.....
What do you want to discuss.. Terrorism or the topic here.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
If you think random screenings will stop terrorism then you are mistaken as well....what about the issue of racial profiling? That opens up a whole new set of problems for a democratic society supposedly free from discrimination.
Do you honestly think that consistent international terrorist attacks against your (ANY) country just happen out of the blue? because "terrorists hate freedom" as Bush puts it? Bull....there is a perfectly good reason why Canada, Switzerland...and other countries WITH plenty of freedom are not targeted....but that is a WHOLE other thread and I think we have derailed this thread enough...my apologies Oryx...and kudos on the topic.
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
skdkak What! Are you saying they are going to all live in one place, where there will be Arabic restaurants and food stores! Mosques and Arabic language classes. Where they celebrate Islamic holidays, perhaps with parades! They will need to get special cops who speak Arabic to Patrol! Hey they might even give it a silly name like Arab town, or the Little Middle East! It can be right next to China Town or Little Italy. :P
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
What ever you have written is not enough for controlling terrorists.
Nations need to do much more than that. In that process if there is a percentage of people who are not actually involved but get harased... bad luck for them. Still better for few people to have problem than loosing thousands of lives and billions of loss to business and property.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
judging from your post you sound an Australian.
mis-cat if you believe my comments are wrong, then kindly enlighten me with the facts so that I can EDIT my post. If not than I will stand by what I have said.
Good Day
If you need to research Australia then you shouldn't comment on the way our government is run.
What i am saying, why does people of one particular faith only have a problem anywhere in west.
They will stay together and change the place look and feel like that of their native..
second stage comes when they try to implement the laws too. There is no concept of mutual respect. Expect respect from others after you respect them. I think you know that better.
As for the change. I would not like to change any part of the law which gives me the confidence down after some years to ask for more laws and again more and one fine day I will see all around me just one law and one faith.
You are trying to say the guest need not change for the host but it is the host that need to change the life style to suit his/her guest. I for one differ with that.
I would like to live (always have lived) in a multiculcural socisty with on one interfering with others.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
A land of peace and harmony, where people are detained and charge with terrorism just because they gave their sim card to their cousin.
A land where from where people's visas are revoked and are deported even upon being proved as innocent.
A land where the accused terrorists can be detained indefinitely under the pretext of a Safe Australia
A land where the parliament heightens the thread of terrorism and approves laws for the indefinite detention of suspected terrorists.
(Need to do more research on Australia, To be continued)
Just for the record...I am in no way saying that Sharia law should be implemented in Australia! I am 100% with you on that point.
I am simply saying that your PM is a hypocrite for shoving "his" (because I know MANY Australians who do not share his views) definition of Autralian culture down immigrant's throats and telling them to shove off if they don't like it.
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
As an Aussie i have to agree with our PM (but not the way he stated it.)We have laws in australia that protect everyones rights and despite what Rangarock thinks he knows about how we treat our indigenous people everyone is treated fairly. To allow Sharia law in australia is to allow these people the right to murder. There have been several cases in australia in the recent years were fathers and brothers have murdered their female family members in the name of islam simply for not marrying the husband they choose or having a relationship with a male not of the families choosing, they then tell us that this is the way it is done back home. The truth if the matter is these people come to australia for a better life a lot of them are there to escape there own countries. Sharia law has no place in Australian culture, and despite what people think they know of australia the majority of Australians are completly tolerant of differant races and religions more so than any other country in the world.
Well Ragna, Quebec does (except Montreal):P But noone listens to the French.
Hey, maybe that's why Canada is so good at it. We've been dealing with the French for so long Islamic extremeists are a piece of cake. :P
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Don't get me started on the absurdity of "Poulet Frit Kentucky" when in FRANCE it's called Kentucky Fried Chicken! LMAO
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Why must it either be chaos (with different laws for each sub group)...or a Tyranical theocracy? Is there no happy medium....I was trying to avoid tooting our own horn, but look at Canada....we have ONE set of laws for all, and we are a multiucultural society....and we have no race riots and major problems....the system CAN work....the difference is that we do not tell our immigrants that's its our way or the highway!
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
How does tolerance create sub nations? Laws are meant to change and adapt over time as new things are discovered and society changes. Saying the rules of Australia are set in stone and won't be changed for anybody is basically saying Oz is already under Shariya Law.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
So you want to create sub nations and rules for all faiths and religions seperately..
It will be a hue and cry all over. How are you gonna control all that. Believe me.. I know as I come from a country where all religions have their own laws... and it is legal. See the confusion there. Its practically not possible to control so many laws.
Keep life simple.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
With a comment like that Howard has just added fuel to a flame.
Yeah I believe in respect the law of the country you live in & abide by it etc etc. But i also believe you should respect other peoples cutures & beliefs. Howard the Cowards comments are always racial & everything he seems to say has initially been driven into him by Bush!!!!.
Besides, not all Australians accept Howard's definition of what Autralian culture "should" be....and his if you don't like it get back on the boat mentality is why there are race riots in Australia....which, like it or not, IS a multi ethnic, multi religious, and multi cultural society!
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Why should they? Lord knows not all "Australians" accept Australia as a whole, why should immigrants?
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Forget it Gypsy, Heinz ketchup is for Oryx....LOL.
[img_assist|nid=43195|title=Save Water Save Life!!!!!!!|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=120]
Gypsy & Ragna... No has stopped calling for a prayer or ringing of a bell.
He wants them to accept the country as a whole and not in bits and pieces.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
But they DID allow them when I was last back home....much to my chagrin there is a church 2 blocks from where we used to live....grrrr.
Stay Safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Sorry Sheerya, I'm lost on the Heinz Ketchup reference.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Do they even allow church bells anymore? :S I remember there was a Catholic church near my uni and they had to stop the bells cause it kept waking people up.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
I really don't care whether they are racist or not...I am really bothered about that Heinz Ketchup....LOL.
Ohhh....and really Sorry if I have offended any Aussies on this board in any manner. I am in a festive mood and don't want to spoil it over fighting and all.....Enjoy!!!!
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They are contradictory aren't they....you cannot have your cake and eat it too lol....there must definetly be a balancing act....but for immigrants to preach to other immigrants about their culture or tell them to get back on the boat is a little hypocritical don't you think?
No Gypsy....no call to prayers OR church bells...me wants to sleep lol.
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
I like the call to prayer. I don't know why, I find it peacefull (maybe that's because I have no sweet clue what's being said). I miss it when I'm home. :(
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
but it's kind of disturbing to non-muslims, at dawn! Church bells are not bad once a week
"Be strong but not arrogant
Be modest but not weak"
S.H
Maybe that was his intent sdkak...but not by shooting a shotgun into the barrel...as Gypsy said there are better ways to do it than the way that hypocrite chose.
Butterfly LOL....i'm all for it...but why stop there....let the church ring it's bells via animated gifs sent to people by emails....I don't want ANYONE (no matter what their religion is) to disturb my sleep =p.
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
As a liberal in the true meaning of the word "liberal" I am against such action. People in Australia and other places should be allowed to think and want whatever they want. For me that's part of the "freedom of speech" - so you should be able to tell people that you want to live under sharia law and the opposite.
However this also means that you can insult the prophet and all other religions. So if a politician decides to take a popular stance among the voters he should be allowed to do so like in this case.
You can't have freedom of speech and political correct behavior at the same time.
- I took the blue pill and found myself alive in Qatar - wish I had taken the red and stayed in Europe
"Be strong but not arrogant
Be modest but not weak"
S.H
I think it would be cool if they started doing call to prayer in Canada. I much prefer that to church bells. :)
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
admit that the above speech does not specifically talk only about sharia law and carries clear racist connotations. I, of course, agree that Sharia law should not be imposed into secular societies, period...he could have spared himself all the racist, love our flag bullc*ap
Talking about call to prayers...
I respecfully suggest the dawn call to prayer to be done by sms instead of microphones, as to not do disturb the sleep of those who do not practice Islam. Thank you..
Not all Australians are racist Shreeya, I know many many who aren't.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
He is only trying to remove spoiled fish from the pool.
No government wants future terrorists in their country.
They just do not want more like 9/11's.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
to run under sharia law !
How can a city run under a different law system to the rest of the country.
They were not very happy when they were told to get lost by Parliament.
The law of the UK is the law and everyone is bound by that.You cant decide your city should run a different set of rules, the Counrty would collapse !!
And just think what rights us so called capitalist westerners have in the middle east, not as many freedoms as people who migrate to the UK.
Can you imagine the uproar if in the UK,only Uk born citizens were allowed to buy houses, and no one else, the PC brigade would go mental, YET out here only Qatari or Bahraini nationals are allowed to buy property ( with a few execeptions)
[img_assist|nid=17018|title= PUSH THE TEMPO !!|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=|height=0]
Yes philbel, but by saying these things to target extremist groups, he makes Australia come across as an incredibly intolerant country. There are many ways to target extremism, but this isn't one of them.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
If ANY immigrant group's customs undermine a nation's LAWS, then obviously i'm not saying change the laws to suit them....i'm just saying don't Force feed your "culture" to immigrants...especially if you are a young nation founded upon immigration....let them keep their own culture (within the boundaries ofthe law)....that's all.
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
On your advice I'd brought a truckload of Heinz Ketchup...so how about pouring it all on those politicians? It is known worldwide that Australians are racist and everybody knows where have they came from. They can't even stop being racist to their own people, like native Aussies, let alone immigrants....But again the sad thing 'Take it or leave it'......
[img_assist|nid=43195|title=Save Water Save Life!!!!!!!|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=180|height=120]
I think it is important to remember that the Australian Government is targeting the extremist groups, and it is to members of these groups that the harsh comments are directed. You may recall last year there was a rape of a girl and the Mufty of the local Muslim community made the now famous comments of women who parade themselves like "uncovered meat" deseve what happens to them. No nation can afford to have it laws undermined by any religous group. I am by no means racist and I do not believe that Australia is any more racist than the next country. Again it comes down to respecting the laws of the nation in which you choose to live.
And i'm not for anyone changing anyone's way of life...i'm just trying to point out the difference between intolerant theocracies (which allow only ONE religion)...and supposedly open and democratic societies which allow freedom of religion....sounds to me like Howard is pushing for the former!
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
The fact of the matter is Qatar has done quite a bit actually to make our lives here easier. There's a distribution center, alcohol in the hotels, they don't make us wear hijab if we aren't Muslim, we have churches (they're building a Catholic one). I can wear a bikini at the beach without getting busted by the cops, etc. Qatar is not without its leniency.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
But I don't think that's what is being asked...the conversion of everyone to Sharia law....but IF freedom of religion exists...and you allow church bells to disturb people at certain times....then it would be awfully hypocrticial of you to not allow mosques to disturb people with their call to prayers....this is supposed to be a free and democratic society after all....NOT a theocracy like Saudi Arabia.
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Why talk of aboriginees only. What ever happend, happend to many others too. You think any region / country / continent was different those times. Its the same thing that happend here too. Lets not dig history.
Multicultural society does not mean you accept the country and try to change the way of life of locals just because you want your women not get spoiled.. as you want them to wear abaya there too.
Its just an example... I have nothig against abaya..
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
Agreed Ragna. It's Nazi style bull crap. We have just as many Arabs in Canada (and other cultures), yet we don't have these problems. Maybe it's because we've been dealing with the French for so long, who knows, it's all about give and take. Sure we'll allow you to wear hijab to school as long as you take it off when you go to vote, etc. The only thing this attitude will get Australia is more bombings and more race riots.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Wanna live by Sharia? There are many countries that would suit you, but not Australia.
Can't ask Aussies to "switch" to Sharia and can't ask an Imam of a mosque in Qatar to "switch off" his loud speakers!
What's fair is fair!
"Be strong but not arrogant
Be modest but not weak"
S.H
actually I can read and write Arabic - not very well
My spoken Arabic is basic but I have made a lot of effort to make sure I can get by in the language.
I respect Qatari values but I choose not to live according to them in my private life.
I think that is true of many diasporas. They keep their own cultural values - which I applaud it does make a country richer for it.
Mr Howard should have a chat with the aboriginees about that....hypocrite....a country founded by immigrants telling other immigrants that they should shove off...what a jerk! I could understand an ancient country saying that....but not countries like Australia or Canada...get your head out of Bush's butt John!
Multicultural society with race riots....hmn...
Stay safe all.
Perfection does not exist. The question therefore, is: what level of imperfection are we willing to settle for?
Minister is not propagating and forcing them to convert. He only says to adher to way of life and its high time a lot of countries start doing so.
You cant have a party near the mosque...
Cant sing and merry just because some one's thought is getting impure (so so say as per them).
You said, ""HOw would you feel if you are told that if you don't want to live by Qatari values you should clear off? I am happy for qataris to have their own culture, society language and lifestyle but I'm certain that I don't want to be part of it, i'm not interested in learning the language and change into their culture...does that mean that I should leave? Can't different cultures keep their identity and live pacefully?"""
Tell me do you have the ba**s to even dare and confront Qatari govt for taking a religious procession or for that matter anything else. But thesse guys do force it on all democratic countries... via force / arson / loot and sometimes by going to court.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
I think maybe it is talking about the underpinning ethos.
The law of the country.
Sure you can keep your identity and there are very strong diaspora identities in Australia but it is about changing the ethics by which that society lives.
Most of us do live by Qatari law. We know it is sharia law and I dont think any of us lobby to change it.
England has a long history of female emancipation and I dont' like it when that is undermined. That is my heritage that I was born into. When people try to change that I dont like it.
I am please when England fully penalises so called 'honour killings' they are not culturally acceptable in my country and dont try to change that.
I dont think that is racist.
how i wish politicians had the guts to implement it in india too!
do it right - the first time!
I am shocked...some of the messages are really strong.
'Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off"
and
"This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."
HOw would you feel if you are told that if you don't want to live by Qatari values you should clear off? I am happy for qataris to have their own culture, society language and lifestyle but I'm certain that I don't want to be part of it, i'm not interested in learning the language and change into their culture...does that mean that I should leave? Can't different cultures keep their identity and live pacefully?
Mr Paul - working in a education in the UK is full of clueless pc social workers who go to touch feely workshops.
I worked with asylum seekers and refugees from somalia afghanistan angola etc
Amazing kids who had experienced stuff that we will never have to go thru.
they didn't want all this stupid patronising stuff. By making all these 'allowences' they actually felt more marginalised. And people get confused because with all these 'cultural allowences' rules get bent and broken till no one knows what they are. They wanted to learn English access the British education system, get their exams and get on in life and be a part of the UK.
A large voice is given to a few and the place has gone mad.
When in minority.. need minority status and rights....
When in majority....No way they are gonna give a zilth of rights to minorities.
These guys hardly understand the concept of LIVE & LET LIVE.. They only want this world to go to dark ages because they want all to follow their 1600 year old laws.. No one has the guts within them to try to change with the changing times.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
I've read this before and I'm of two minds to it, actually. I completely agree that if you want to live under Sharia law go to Saudi or Iran, get the hell out of liberal Western democratic countries, especially since the vast majority of Shaira laws are considered illegal by our law codes (it's not ok to dump a wall on someone for adultry).
However this whole, we won't make any adaptations is absolute bull. Australia, like Canada and the United States is a country founded in immigration, just because it was the English that got their first doesn't make it an English country. The strength of these countries lies in their multiculturalism and acceptance. Not the other way around. It's a stupid Nazi attitude.
"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco
Yes nib but I knew Qatar had Sharia law and I dont try to change it.
If they want Sharia law that is their issue and if I can't live with that is my issue but I should not try to change it. It is up to Qataris to determine their laws not me.
And yes it is getting the balance between racism and defending your culture values. There is a big grey area.
As an Auzzie myself, I have to admit that I agree with the sentiment of this article. Australia has accepted many immigrants from many different cultures and religions and at some point, people who migrate to Australia must accept the way Australians live and be governed by the same laws. I did not move to the Middle east to work and decide that I would live by my counties rules and not the rules of my host country! Last Xmas there were child care centres in Australia that were unable to hold Xmas parties for the children because the parents of the Muslim children who also attended the centre were offended! How stupid was this? Yet here in a Muslim country there were christmas decorations on open displays in various stores!
He is completly correct.You move here, you live by our rules !!
If only the spineless idiots in charge of the UK would have the guts to stand up and say this, the UK might be a much better place to live.
When we all chose to move to the middle east, we understood that we have to live by that countries rules, whether its Qatar, Bahrain or whatever.
[img_assist|nid=17018|title= PUSH THE TEMPO !!|desc=|link=none|align=center|width=|height=0]
I am 200% with the view.
We need such stand to be taken by all democratic nations.
..**.. ""They walk among us. They vote & they even reproduce"" ..**..
so if we agree with this we also have to leave qatar cuz we dont accept sharia rules. or for me some cultural-religious things here are not acceptable for me.
but yea that is australia and they can think like that. but they shud also be careful about racism in australia. those words can be said by a regular one too so a prime minister shud be a bit different.
Actually i mostly agree and take this as my attitude to Qatar.
Also this seemed to be the prevailing attitude in Mexico.
Mexico wonderful country/history/culture etc... u don't like it..? .... not good enough for you?
Leave.
Also I like Aussies a lot. They tell it how they see it with little hidden agenda. They are easy to get on with. They have a great 'have a go' mentality and I have always found them postive and helpful.