Am i Christain or Muslim....?????
I am a true Christian OR true muslim.
I used to take ablution before prayer like my Jesus. [Exodus 40:30-1
I prostrate [touching my forehead in ground] during prayer like my Jesus. [Matthew 26:39, Genesis 17:3, 16:22, 20:6, Joshua 5:14, 7:6, I Kings 18:42]
Me and my sisters cover our head like veiled women lived around my Jesus. [Genesis 24:64-5]
I used to greet my brothers and sisters like my Jesus by saying “peace be upon you” [20:19, 1st Samuel 25:6] in Hebrew “shalom alekum”
I am fasting by neither eat nor drink like my Jesus. [Matthew 4:2, 6:16, 17:21, Exodus 34:28]
I keep away from taking or giving interest as opposed by my Jesus. [Deuteronomy 23:19, 23:20]
My brothers are circumcised like my Jesus. [Luke 2:21 and Genesis 17:10-13]
I will never eat pork as forbidden by my Jesus. [Leviticus 11:7-8, Deuteronomy 14:8]
I will never touch alcoholic drinks as my Jesus abstained from it. [6:1-4]
My brothers have beard like my Jesus.
BUT WHEN I FOLLOW MY JESUS, OTHERS CALL ME "U R MUSLIM" WHY?
Y ITS LIKE THIS....DID ANYBODY THINK ABT THIS..IF NOT START THINKING.......
Religion is often a very sensitive topic when it comes to the limelight of people with different view points and understandings under one common roof. The best thing while discussing this topic would be to try and understand what the other person is trying to convey rather than trying to force upon view points and self opinionated beliefs.
When you believe in something and it sounds right to you and your heart and mind is willing to accept that it is right, then it surely must be right. When confronted with points that go against what you though was right and accepted all these years, it really takes a mammoth step to try and understand that point. Basically, dear reader please bring in an open mind to this conversation and not a opinionated one. This thread is enormous and I unfortunately don't have the time to read through each and every post. I have been reading many comment here which are either for the "sake of posting a comment because someone questioned your belief" or "to prove to the reader, that you are true to your religion". Either ways, it is of no benefit to anyone unless your intention was to share what you know and understand rather than share what you believe and follow.
God said in the Quran about one of the evil unbelievers who forbade the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) from praying at the Ka'bah (Holy Mosque):
Let him beware! If he does not stop, We will take him by the Naseyah (front of the head), a lying, sinful Naseyah (from of the head)! [Noble Quran 96:15-16]
Why did the Quran describe the front of the head as being lying and sinful? Why didn't the Quran say that the person was lying and sinful? What is the relationship between the front of the head and lying and sinfulness?
If we look into the skull at the front of the head, we will find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum, in the area we call the forehead. What does physiology tell us about the function of this area? A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area, "The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. This is a region of association cortex.." Also the book says, "In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression..."
So, this area of the cerebrum is responsible for planning, motivating, and initiating good and sinful behavior, and is responsible for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth. So, it is proper for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth. So, it is proper to describe the front of the head as lying and sinful when someone lies or commits a sin, as the Quran says:
...A lying, sinful Naseyah (from of the head)! [Noble Quran 96:16]
Scientists have only discovered these functions of the prefrontal area in the last sixty years, according to Professor Keith L. Moore. [Scientific Miracles in the Front of the Head p. 41]
According to the scientists today:
"Water vaporizes from the oceans and rivers forming tiny clouds. The small clouds join together and the updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts closer to the center are stronger, because they are protected from the cooling effects by the outer portion of the cloud. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up. This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere where drops of water and hail formulate and begin to grow larger and larger. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc." [From "The Atmosphere" p. 269 and "Elements of Meteorology" pp. 141-142]
- Now just for the sake of argument, let us see what the "Muslim scientists" used to formulate their understandings centuries ago based on the revelation of the Quran (revealed 1400 years ago):
Have you not seen how God makes the clouds move gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it...
[Noble Quran 24:43]
Meteorologists have only recently come to know these details of cloud formation, structure, and function by using advanced equipment like planes, satellites, computers, balloons, and other equipment to study wind and its direction, to measure humidity and its variations, and to determine the levels and variations of atmospheric pressure.
The preceding verse, after mentioning clouds and rain, Quran speaks about hail and lightning:
... And He sends down hail from mountains (clouds) in the sky, and He strikes with it whomever He wills, and turns it from whomever He wills. The vivid flash of its lightning nearly blinds the sight. [Noble Quran 24:43]
Meteorologists have found that these cumulonimbus clouds, that shower hail, reach a height of 25,000 to 30,000 ft. (4.7 to 5.7 miles) like mountains, as the Quran says;
...And He sends down hail from mountains (clouds) in the sky... [Noble Quran 24:43]
Now this verse may raise the question: "Why does the verse say "its lightning" while referring to hail? This seems to indicate that hail is a major factor in producing lightning. Looking to a book on the subject (Meteorology Today) we find that it says:
"Clouds become electrified as hail falls through a region in the cloud of super cooled droplets and ice crystals. As liquid droplets collide with the hail they freeze on contact and release latent heat. This keeps the surface of the hail warmer than that of the surrounding ice crystals. When the hail comes in contact with an ice crystal, an important phenomenon occurs: electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer object. So, the hail becomes negatively charged. The same effect occurs when super cooled droplets come in contact with a piece of hail and tiny splinters of positively charged ice break off. These lighter, positively charged particles are then carried to the upper part of the cloud by updrafts. The hail, left with a negative charge, falls toward the bottom of the cloud, so the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged to the ground as lightning. [Meteorology Today p. 437]
This information on lightning was discovered recently. Until 1,600 A.D., Aristotle's ideas on meteorology were dominant in the non-Muslim countries. For example, he said that the atmosphere contains two kinds of exhalation, moist and dry. He also said that thunder is the sound of the collision of the dry exhalation with the neighboring clouds, and lightning is the inflaming and burning of the dry exhalation with a thin and faint fire. [Works of Aristotle Translated into English pp. 369 a&b]
These are some of the ideas on meteorology that were dominant at the time of the Quran's revelation, fourteen hundred years ago.
The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of 'smoke' (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition). This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology. Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that 'smoke'. The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that 'smoke' material. God said in the Quran:
Then He turned to the heavens when it was smoke...
[Noble Quran 41:11]
Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same 'smoke' we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous 'smoke', they formed and separated from each other. God said in the Quran:
Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?.. [Noble Quran 21:30]
Professor Alfred Kroner is one of the world's well-known geologists. He is a Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, Mainz, Germany. He said, "Thinking where Muhammad came from .. I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advance technological methods that this is the case." (From 'This is the Truth' [video]). Also he said, "Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin."
Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.
[Principles of Oceanography - Davis, pp. 92-93]
For example, Mediterranean Sea water is warm, saline and less dense, compared to Atlantic Ocean water. When Mediterranean Sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1,000 meters with its own warm, saline and less dense characteristics.
The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth.
[Principles of Oceanography p. 93]
The Mediterranean Sea water as it enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill with its own warm, saline and less dense characteristics, because of the barrier that distinguishes between them. Temperatures are in degrees Celsius (C).
Even in depths (indicated here by darker colors) up to 1,400 meters and at distances ranging from a minus -100 to +2,500 meters, we find that both bodies of water maintain their individual temperatures and salinity.
Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.
The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God said:
He has let free the two seas meeting to gather. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress.
[Noble Quran 55:19-20]
But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of "a forbidding partition" with the barrier.
God said in the Quran:
He is the one who has let free the two bodies of flowing water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. [Noble Quran 25:53]
On may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?
Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers."
[Oceanography p. 242]
This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water
[Oceanography p. 244 and Introductory Oceanography pp. 300-301]
This information has been discovered only recently using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: the fresh water, the salt water, the partition (zone of separation).
i'am pure christian.
I Love God for the everything he give it to me.....
and i have faith in God...
not becoz i'am a chirstian, it is becoz for me God only knows everything watever your religion....you must love God and the others...and you will find it what r loking 4..
lol coelecanth, i thought this was already dead too :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
That's the reason why i kept quiet...it's just nonsense responding to this posts...
In NATURE'S GOD, I TRUST!
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Thanks brother Victor
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
i already went away....
not very far though....
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"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"
IMO you are what your parents are in terms of religion.None of us have the social sanction of accepting a religion after due consideration.Except when you are converting. Other than that we are what we are born as. You are definately a Muslim.
Life is Beautiful...Indeed!
Plato...
if you (hisashi/bensone) like the thread stay here or go away without dropping rubbish comments.
lol, i thought this was dead :)
Now, to all those that are insulting my brothers (Malabari, coelecanth, nicetoonice, solomon) and sisters (yes, i do mean sisterfatima), we have been having a civilized discussion here, so, if your intelect can't beat ours, than you better just listen, if it's even or superior than just express your own opinions without ofending anyone. I'm always open to such debates
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
I cannot see why you have to be confused with your religion and if you are a muslim then stick to it and otherwise go and find out the truth.
and plus you are old enough to evaluate what you are. I tell you another option..why don't try out Budhist or Hindu?
Peace be upon you
In order to be a Muslim you have to believe in 5 things:
1-One God with no partners(Allah)
2-The Holy Quran
3-God's Angels
4-Muhammad being the last of the prophets of God. As well as other prophets that came before him i.e. Abraham, Moses, Jesus and many more.
5-The day of Reserruction.
Believing in predestination is also a part of being a Muslim. You must also believe that Jesus was indeed God's apostle but not his son.
Basically if you be leave that there is only one God and that Muhammad is his prophet, then you are a Muslim.
I hope you find righteous guidance and accept Islam as it is the same religion that Jesus preached about.
dear brother
sorry for the delay
no dear
its ur judgment lolz!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
jeeshh...
what can i say, you are one resilient dude...good for you!
you just don't know when to stop....
9 PAGES!.....i bet you're still confused...
lol;)
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"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"
no dear, i think u haven't read our discussion,
also i respect your views to close this, but look it went 9th page by good participation of more than 6 people, that's why no idea to close, if its a waste of space, it will close itself :)
Bingo:-i dont know how to close an open discussion forum.
can u help me?LOLZ
so that we can atleast defeat some rude personel attacks!
thank u dear brother
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
malabari....
you said that you're a muslim and true christian...
wtf?!?!?!
are you high on something dude?...
as i said, close this thread already...
what a waste of space....
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"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"
brother nice too nice
alhamdulillah, the lies exposed! falsehood bound to vanish! sure liars will be perished by GOD Almighty.
sisterfatima, yes Who cares for somebody's comments,please come back!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
qureshi2k.....
what?!?!
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"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"
Who cares for somebody's comments, who doesn't know..."Who is he"???
"""The readers/participants of this discussion are well aware about who here is having biased/rude/onesided mentality."""
Brother Nice Too Nice,Exactly You Are Right.
Brother Platoa please come to defend non stop abuses against our sister.
Sister Fatima, please dont stop posting only because of some people said something, who cares their unwanted posts, it was a biased judging, so don't be away from the forum. You just ignore those rude people and continue the discussion.We all are well aware about your character, Knowledge and good nature. We feel proud of you sister.
Now Brother Victor Bhat too used the word "curropted",and Brother The Mighty Solomon corrected it as "Mis-tranlsated", This is what our sister said "amended" in various versions showing different meanings out of context and I am sure Brother The Mighty Solomon will agree that some versions have more than books than some other versions.But unfortunately liars have no idea about our discussion which went to 9th page, they are not here to participate, but only here to make smart comments like
"i feel pity on you"
"coelacanth we are waiting for your replay"
"be happy in your dreams"
"Malabari please replay coelacanth"
"coelacanth please replay Solomon"
i just laugh at those who just want to post smart comments(personel attack is obvious)and just earn 1 point from QL)
Jazaakallahu khair all of my brothers and sisters for participating and posting your point of views, i will not mention the name of some people to appreciate(at the same time ignore some people and blame some people)
because i am not a biased creature to support when the things are favour to me and offend when i am wrong!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Sisterfathima, I do not expect(I do not want) any appraisal from anybody here. I look forward to get it from Almighty who provided me the sense to see the things in proper way, the strength to speak up, the will to stand for the right. The readers/participants of this discussion are well aware about who here is having biased/rude/onesided mentality.
Sister, don't be away from the forum. You just ignore those rude people and continue the discussion.
assalam alaikum brother Qureshi
i dont know why u still keep attacking me.
whatever u called me in ur last post, i am leaving it before LORD, ask brother plato, coelacanth, and solomon about my character u "sketched" here using words 'biased & one-sided mentality,Super-Natural or the Messanger of God,brain-washed, silly....etc
they knows about our discussion so i will not respond to these comment which is really very hurting to me.hasbiyallah.
ALLAH's knows the truth about our long discussion through private messeges of more than 5 debates,
only after ur rude personel attacks, i have blocked u.
and i left this forum only becoz of u and u alone, but even after u kept mention my name(while others invites me), then i have send a long message detaily to clear my stand and point. if u want to answer, i am ready to unblock, but i know u r here only to offend. thank u brother for blocking me because i was the one who sent u add request.
dear brother solomon
i have already said that it is the difference between u and me, so dont tell sorry for ur disagree. coz i know it already.
and we belive Jesus will return so that time u can recognize who r true christians, insha allah.
i know the beard is artistic presentaion, i have mentioned it in my post as imaginary.
my point is whatever it is, we follow him and love him.
and u said except pork, the remaining things malabari mentioned are ur people follows, i dont know u really follow and u have'nt given me the verses i have asked.
ok it upto u. i am OUT from this forum and just want to reply when my name mention anywhere, otherwise i will not enter here.
brother qureshi,
u have appreciated dmightysolomon, qatarocean, hisashi_mitsui, cutydog
and plz appreciate nice too nice, victor bhat, plato, and others becuase then only u can prove here that u r not biased!
Why did you send me Private Message, while you blocked me to reply.....this again shows that you just want people to listen you but you don't wanna listen people. You are really having a biased & one-sided mentality.
Why do you should be considered as correct???? are you something Super-Natural or the Messanger of God??????
I feel pity on such brain-washed people like you, who are just like radio, capable of criticizing & saying their own only & completely failed to listen & understand anything!!!!!!!!!!
Keeping in consideration to your silly attitude, I have blocked you to send any Private Message to me.
Dear dmightysolomon, qatarocean, hisashi_mitsui, cutydog........I do agree with you, as you people seem to have an intellectual level up to the mark, where you can think & present your ideas. That's really appreciable & necessarily required for an un-biased discussion.
A muslim is not a christian and a christian is not a muslim. Just as bible is not Quran and Quran is not bible.
There are many difference between christians and muslims. Don't go for similarities. I believe you are not muslim because a true muslim will never ask this question. A muslim has no doubt that he / she is a christian or muslim.
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Common sense is a sence which is not common.
better use "mis-translated".
Sorry to disagree with you Sisterfatima. Chist died and His resurrection is the proof that there is a resurrection comes judgment day. He died in the cross to fulfill His mission here.
You can not be true Christians as the same time true Muslims. You are Muslim and could never be Christians because Malabari only mentioned few that he follows and not the most important one.
The "beard" of Jesus is only an artist presentation. Nobody saw Christ personally.
And did you know that the model (person) use to portray Christ in the "The last supper" is the same model (person) in that painting represents Judas Iscariote?
The "veil" and I would presumed the clothing of both male and female Muslims are cultural, not religious. Since these clothing are prevalent in this part of the world, Islam made it a compulsory clothing for all Muslims around the world. So as circumcision thing.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Malabari.....
what?!?!
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"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"
dear hisashi_mitsui
i am its starter, and i am not an athiest but i am muslim who is true christian, the follower of Christ and u can call me diest who belives in one supreme GOD and follow reasoning islam, beliving in messengers and revealations.
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
this thread has dragged on forever....
close this already...
the person who started this may have been converted into an atheist for all we know....
jeesh....
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"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"
there are many versions of bible (new testament) are available in the market (corrupted versions); while old testaments still have many references which are similar in Quran such as Chapter Maryam..
brother cuteydog
to whome u r asking it?
if me, try to read the 8 previous pages.
more than 5 people attended this discussion.
so u can point out one by one.
ur brother malabari
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Happy to see your comments agains Sister.
and about the verses i have asked, u said i am an expert in bible, thank u brother.
and u invited me to manila, insha allah i wish to visit ur church.
but eventhough i am a gradual reader and student of bible, somethings u said about ur belifs are i have never read or heard about bible.
that's why i asked to provide me verses.
and all others,
i have some Qureis left with brother solomon, that's why i appeared.
assalam alaikum
He was born as a man, raised as a man
and we muslims belive jesus did'nt die, he is living and will come soon.
"they killed him not and crucified him not"
i think this is the one difference between u and me.
we belive the divinity of Jesus christ and prophet muhammed prophesized in bible.
if Jesus is the way of salavation(according to bible), we muslims follow him very best and right than christians themselves. so we are right fellows with your church who will enter the kingdom of GOD. My actual post is about it. Muslims are the only people in the world who follow him verily. jesus taught to follow commandements, not merely a simple belif can save a person. But doing good deeds, forbidding bad deeds, following the commandments of GOD, are the aspects of paradise people.
an example:-
Dont u see the imaginary pics and idols of jesus(Pbh), also the film "passion", Jesus beard is obvious!
Perhaps Jesus(a) has beard.
do u know growing beard is "sunnah" for us.
and u can read many more example from my true post itself proves how we LOVE our JESUS.
we are the only (I think) Christian Church whosays that Lord Jesus is man. He was born as a man, raised as a man, died a man and up to now that he sits on the right side of God, He is still a man.
The are no verses in the Bible that say that Jesus is God. It was a misinterpretation of some verses that (the other "Christians") they taught that Christ is God.
But don't get me wrong, although Christ is man, He was a divine one and God Himself taught that Jesus is the only way to go to Him (meaning be saved comes judgment day). That why Christ built His Church and said, whoever enters it will be saved. It is the church to whom Christ gave His blood.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
but christians differ in concept of GOD themselves, our solomon brother does'nt conveyed as Jesus GOD, but said Jesus was man.
Who said God does'nt mean allah?
a never heard idea, is'nt it coelacanth?
Allah in Arabic and Aramaic means "The Supreme GOD".
Yahweh or Jehovah in Hebrew mean "The Eternal". GOD Almighty's Names are Attributes of Him. They're all the same."Allah" in Arabic is "Elaw" in Aramaic. The Jews and Christians before Islam called GOD Almighty as "Allah" in the Middle East.
"Elaw" in Aramaic means "God" or "GOD", and it means the same thing that the Arabic "Allah" means.
archeological evidence that proved that the Arabic and Aramaic-speaking Jews and Christians in the 4rd century (200 years before Islam) called GOD Almighty as "Allah". The Hebrew speaking ones of course called Him "Yahweh" or "Jehovah", which means "The LORD" or "GOD". "Yahweh" is a Hebrew-language word. "Allah" is both Arabic and Aramaic.
Further discoveries from an Arabic Roman Catholic web site at http://www.al-bushra...
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
In the Jewish scriptures, God is called by many names in the Hebrew language, since those are Hebrew texts. The most famous of these names is the name Yahweh. The basic creed of the Jews is found in the Bible in the Book of Deutronomy 6:5.
The original name for GOD Almighty in Aramaic and Hebrew was indeed "Allah". Allah in Arabic and Aramaic means "The Supreme GOD". Yahweh or Jehovah in Hebrew mean "The Eternal". GOD Almighty's Names are Attributes of Him. They're all the same. Jesus by the way used "Allah" when he preached in Aramaic.
"Allah" in Arabic is "Elaw" in Aramaic. The Jews and Christians before Islam called GOD Almighty as "Allah" in the Middle East.
"Elaw" in Aramaic means "God" or "GOD", and it means the same thing that the Arabic "Allah" means.
archeological evidence that proved that the Arabic and Aramaic-speaking Jews and Christians in the 4rd century (200 years before Islam) called GOD Almighty as "Allah". The Hebrew speaking ones of course called Him "Yahweh" or "Jehovah", which means "The LORD" or "GOD". "Yahweh" is a Hebrew-language word. "Allah" is both Arabic and Aramaic.
Further discoveries from an Arabic Roman Catholic web site at http://www.al-bushra.org/arbhrtg/arbxtn04.htm:
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
cuteydog...you got me confused! Allah, in arabic is 'Al'-The + 'ilah'-God. what's the difference with "God" and "Allah". Where did you get the idea that God does not mean Allah? And Jehovah is another name for God; an approximation of the holiest name of God in Hebrew (the name was held so sacred that it was never written or spoken, and scholars are not sure exactly how it should be pronounced). It means “I am that I am,” or “I am the one who is.”
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Well i never....
thanks for that.
Jehovah is the name used by Jews to call Yahweh/Allah/God because they found it disrespectful to say God's name (YHVH) and considered it to be too Holy to be spoken.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Interesting ready.....here's another conundrum..
Who was Jehovah then?
RELIGION causes DIVISION. Religion is the no 1 promoter of DIVISION. Why? Because RELIGION itself can't fix the DIVISION inside. Does GOD ask for a RELIGION to be DIVIDED from within? NO. Why is there DIVISION? Because Religion is not created by God but by MAN, and RELIGION is initiated by POLITICS. No POLITICS, no RELIGION. But that doesn't mean that NO RELIGION = NO GOD. Remove RELIGION, there will be no more DIVISION among God's worshipper. Believe in the existence of GOD, and not of RELIGION. Will that happen? NO. It's like praying for WORLD PEACE, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Continue bashing each other, all of you claiming to follow the word of God. Do unto others what you want others do unto you. You can't talk peace and have a gun.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
so u know malayalam cheers!
thank u brother nice too nice
welcome back brother anas
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Lol ..this thread is on the 9th page...and request for calm down
Quote
Dear brothers, please calm down.
Unquote
Dear brothers, please calm down.
Anas
criminal israel
we have answered that binu brother twice and now he stopped it so please dont use bad words.
i know your feelings and me too belong to kerala, but as muslims we should not be agressive if someone said something.
be tolerate and respond in a very best manner.
Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(Wha Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
and Pajju, please use my full name next time, its Criminal Israel , without israel what criminal or crime
Criminal . i dint see his comments anyway , i just put comments that u called some bad mallu word .. thats all ... yea in our islam there s no terrorism ..
Yes, Pajju same time you may ask Binu from where he is having this wrong information, that all kerala muslim youth recruited to terrorist group, I am one of them, I never joined or not to join, and I believe terriorism its against the Islam.
oopsss time to close : criminal .. plzz
Binu thendi, why you are claiming all Kerala muslim youth recruited to terrorist group , from where you got this information. If there is a Abhaya case , that mean all Christian priest and Sisters are same as in Abhaya case. Don't be stuppid your self
AlhamduLillah. Mabrook cvsrm. May Almighty guide you to the success.
of our own convenience...
For a moment, we remove the controversies and contradiction (inter-sect) from all the religions; then we all are following the similar religion of universal peace, harmony, respect for all!
Let live in our own world of happiness and allow others to live peacefully and seek / follow continuously the true path.
it was believed that the original origin of not eating pork was that it spoiled very quickly and did not keep well. and it was avoided as to not get sick. but along the way it turned into religion.
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
I'll drink to that!!! coelacanth..Unconditional Love is we need..
...
Many religious people are basically loving, no disrespect but, as I understand now is..Organised Religion=Division=War=Slavery and eventually..MicroChipped Population
...
cheers
cuteydog...such wise words...and strongly agree with you. As what i've been implying before, RELIGION causes DIVISION. Life is not about having religion...it's not about how well you memorized the book...it's how you lived your life. Everyone will have a different interpretation of the book...and it will NEVER STOP...with everyone claiming to have the correct interpretation. Muslims are divided into TWO, with both claiming to be DOING what is IN THE BOOK, CHRISTIANS are divided into HUNDREDS, with ALL claiming to have the right interpretation of the book. Believe in GOD, not on the RELIGION. Religion will change, but not GOD. Do unto others what you want others do unto you. Simple rule to follow.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Cuteydog: i agree with your post previous to the last reply you gave :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
See? How Organized Religions Divide Us!!! :(
...
Peace out guys..
i will be OFF for a two days and will come to answer Qureshi brother's rude personal attacking insha allah.
assalam alaikum Qureshi
expecting more slaps from you, i will answer all those abuses after two days insha allah.
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
if u really want answer, just ask solomon, we have discussed it widely here canons and versions, i dont want to repeat it for biased people like u. that's why he is not asking. but u repeatedly blaming without knowing facts. all of us are knowledged here(u can exclude me because of ur intolorence), do u thik solomon is fool?, or u alone is intelligent?
No , but why he is not asking this funny Questian is that he knows the answer very well.but sadly u r so ignorant about these issues, that's why u alone respondng this way. and u did'nt answered my questian.
if you are a "peace maker" , where u gone while solomon asking offensive Questians against our faith without atleast reading the answers given by me, sisterfatima and nice too nice????
u have no right to blame others because ur biased nature proved here by the dealing of anasfk and solomon.
U can say anything to anybody, it's the state of mind
be happy in ur dreams!
perhaps no one cares ur comments except me so u can keep disparaging me like what u did to other members of Ql without knowing the flow of the debate, i will always here till my last breath to care ur rubbish comments against me, i am glad, u repeat ur fitnas till qiyama, GOD knows well.!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
One of the Miracle of Holy Bible is in front of everybody, whether Malbari likes it or not.....whether MALBARI considers Holy Bible as corrupted (just to prove himself for nothing)......ULTIMATELY...MALBARI Himself needs to go back to references from Holy Bible to proof what he is????
Malbari, what & why are you trying to prove that
"Knowledgeable person is somebody who believes & agrees with you that Bible is corrupted"
Just to increase your little knowledge with an important fact, please note that Holy Bible is the center of belief for major population of earth,
you cannot deny this fact...........rest, who cares for you & your comments about anybody
Platuo that exactly the point I am trying to make that practically a delicate discussion needs a lot of understanding typing reading is good to some extent, I guess face to face interaction is the best to discuss and update ourselves.
Now I am also thinking that i am repeating myself.
-----------------------------------------------------
When the eye becomes the heart, the heart becomes the eye ... Wasif Ali Wasif
Shajiv: Wise words
Frozen tear: We had discussions on sensitive matters, ofc there was some intensity at certain parts of it but what matters is that we all leurned each others opinion/thoughts concerning this matter.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Jesus never forbid to eat Pork
Jesus didnt forbid to drink alcohol... He was drinking red wine with his disciples at the "Last Supper" ... he said dont get wasted, so there's a big difference here buddy!
Please dont interpretate Jesus words the way u want to see it! Read again the Bible and u'll see the difference!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
yes brother frozen
ofcourse u r right!
all of us concluded here very well.
i am glad to read all those.
but some people deliberately make fight here.
beware about them.
i think now u can figure out who is repeating ignorantly.
i too wish the thread has to be end with peace and love.
but what can i do when some people make fitna here?
8th page itself proves the problem makers!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
You guys are repeating youself without making any sense to me, I dont see a chance of cease fire here only due to these reasons I dont recommend discussing this issues coz in the begining you will try to be nice later you will forget all goodies you talked about and indulge yourself insulting others.
If the thread has to end this way i wish it shouldnt have started.
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When the eye becomes the heart, the heart becomes the eye ... Wasif Ali Wasif
i feel the same on u brother qureshi.
u alone asking it because of ur ognorance.
see how solomon responds?
masha allah
i have already answered about canons and versions.
solomon knows well than u, that's why he not asking.
u have no right to blame others because ur biased nature proved here by the dealing of anasfk and solomon.
"He can say anything to anybody, it's the state of mind"
this really suits for u and u alone!
be happy in ur dreams!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Please feel pity on somebody who claims & blames Bible but again quotes from Holy Bible,
He needs support from Holy Bible......
He can say anything to anybody, it's the state of mind
reflect what kind of conviction he/she has! What is written is there and can not be changed, following or putting it into practice is another thing. No acceptable reasoning of any kinds for any deviations is acceptable to Him!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
indeed true!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
a true follower of christ is a true christian.
so i am a true christian.
Mark 1:35, 6:46, 14:35-36, Matthew 14:23, 19:13, 26:39, 27:46, 26:42-44 - Jesus prayed to God.
Matthew 24:36
Matthew 26:39
John 14:28
Mark 10:17-18, Luke 18:18-19
John 8:42
John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14
John 14:31 & 15:10
John 17:6-8
Acts 2:22
1 Timothy 2:5
Matthew 10:34
Happy and Blessed 2009
With Love & Prayer
Brother
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
And that's the reason why I shut up on forums like this... I just wanted one point added to my account! good luck to all!
-----------------------
When I write... I believe... I'm honest....
Don't you people think that enough is enough. Please stop criticizing and blaming each other. Christianity and other religions are going to stay forever. Please be happy in your own world. Remove hatred from your heart and look for a better tomorrow. Happy new year to all....
Dear, From your words, you are following JESUS right?. So believe Bible as HIS words. JESUS is our LORD and Saviour. Believe, JESUS has died for your sin and He risen from death. Ask JESUS to come to your heart and be a true CHRISTIAN.
JESUS BLESS YOU.
Remember one thing: If anyone who doesn't believe JESUS as their LORD and saviour, He/She is not at all a CHRISTIAN. If you believe JESUS as your LORD and Saviour YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN.
Happy and Blessed 2009
With Love & Prayer
Brother
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
already answered well before solomon ,
that's why he is not asking.
but u can't undersnad because of your ignorance.
that's why i said to ask solomon. sure he will tell u.
be happy in your dreams!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
what answer????u don't have answer for starting a thread with something u feel it's corrupted....
u ask solomon, he will tell u
not all are fool except some....same to u,
welcome....
already answered!
ask solomon, he will tell u.
so we all are fools except u
thank u brother
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Just answer one simple question!!!!!!!!!!!
If you claim that Holy Bible is corrupted, then why did you quoted Holy Bible verses.....to initiate this thread.
Don't try to hide yourself, you in your previous comment again urged on the BIBLE as corrupted.
I don't care at all for whatever you, sisterfatima or anybody say about me....because once you can claim & blame against Bible as corrupted.....you can say anything about anybody.
Dear all
Please note still Qureshi is doing his unwanted job,
"frankly speaking this thread was based on fitna....because it was initiated on the references from the Book which was climed as corrupted by the initiator of thread & his team later on......Then how did he use & take references from the book, which he claims as corrupted."
Dear brother Qureshi,
Your repeated posts proves that you know nothing about Gospels and its authors.
Please note, all others including solomon claims its a peaceful discussion except you.
Because they are well aware about the flow of this debate. But your ignorance made arrogance against our beloved sister fatima. Which made to stop this beautiful forum. I think now you feel much happy to disparage our sister.
if you are a "peace maker" , where u gone while solomon asking offensive Questians against our faith without atleast reading the answers given by me, sisterfatima and nice too nice????
Your "biased nature" and "false innosence" are well understanded by everyone in this QL by your dealing with our brother anasfk.
The "corrupted" claim appeared here only after the bit provoking of solomon brother, but atlast our sister apologized it and after that she never used it. She explained the reason behind it.
prophet abuse is defended by me, nice too nice, solomon here. no one allowed it keep mentioning. Our sister defended with 4 posts more than all of us.
So please stop your unwanted fitnas,
We all discussed a great topic much happily.
Please stop unnecessary lieing,
jazaakallah for everybody who participated here except those fitna makers.
salamalaykum dear all
with love
your brother malabari
SisterFatima: Dear friend, i apreciated your honesty and inteligence. That allowed me to leurn a lot more regarding all religions. I'll surelly let you know if my bride Azizah and i (Ayman) go towards abudhabi, doha, jeddah or riyadh, anywhere in india, and minnesota, i'll let you know.
In india i have a friend who's leading an association called Maria Mangte, ever heard about her? She was tribal leader's wife.
If by anychance you and hubby drop around Portugal, let me know, i live at Lisbon and if you come i'll gladly take you both to Lisbon's mosque :)
I still feal sorry that you leave this threat, i'll try to create another one about some other subject we could all discuss peacefully as we did on this.
Think no one should be blamed by the end of this topic, there will be time for other discussions :)
coelecanth: My deist brother, sisterfatima is right when she advises you to read what we spoke while you were away :) As our muslim/christian brothers/sisters stated, we all have leurned a lot from these peacefull discussions and at same time we have showed that even with our differences we found we can discuss sensible matters without "killing" each others ;)
Nice too Nice: You were a pleasent surprise to me, at beggining i was thinking you were one of those fanatics that can't reason but your arguments showed to me that you also used the head for more than just "use an hat" :)
I do wish that you keep that will of yours and keep reasoning according to your beliefs, religion can be wonderfull if we are able to love all our brothers/sisters seeing all as equals :)
Victor: I subscribe your words in your last reply except the part regarding Qureshi, can't really blame him/her but i think we all have showed how different civilizations/beliefs can get along without any wars.
May God bless all our main religious leaders to find a common path so that we may all be united again has His people.
Brother Malabari: It was a pleasure to talk and discuss with you, as promised, when i go Doha, i'll gladly meet you all so we can have a brain storm and enrich our knowledge, God bless you my friend for such an interesting post, i'm sure we'll have another friendly discussions in this forum :)
DMS: Also a big thank for all your argument in this topic, i'm sure that you are also pleased with this discussion :)
To everybody participating:
In times of hate as the ones we are living we all need to open our heart and leave it overflow with love.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Whatever you say it's your way of judging......but once the word fitna (creating confusion/dispute) is used twice in this thread...............frankly speaking this thread was based on fitna....because it was initiated on the references from the Book which was climed as corrupted by the initiator of thread & his team later on......Then how did he use & take references from the book, which he claims as corrupted.
GUD ! reallly appreciate it.. !
But jus keep in mind that, wen u start learning, u will have to face many difficulties.. May Allah Subuhana make ur path clear..
JazakAllah Khair !!
for me, religion doesn't really matter...and i just practice these things..
1. Self Awareness
2. Self Responsibility
3. Self Honesty
4. Give Unconditional Love
Coz We Are All One and Equal..
Peace out...
Dear All, It was very interesting to know more about other religion. I was not having any idea about the diesm which was explained by Coelacanth and Platao.(Though there were some contradictions still I got an overall idea about it). I appreciate whoever discussed the subject here without attacking personally (I know that some of the QLers used private messages to insult someone)and May Almighty Bless you to gain more knowledge and Guide you in the right path.
cvsrm I wish you all the best and May Almighty Bless you with Hidaya.....
I guess the doors of discussion are still open, we can still meet in person and discuss them.
Usually in discussion like that every body introduce themselves then thier religion, thier sect before starting the conversation exactly the way dmightlysolomon did at the end.
I guesss difference should have maintained between criticism and personal attack on ego.
-----------------------------------------------------
When the eye becomes the heart, the heart becomes the eye ... Wasif Ali Wasif
:O !!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
This forum really served the different points of views of all holy religions (past and present) and I agree to all of them but due to our own limited understanding, skills and interpretation, we end up mis-guided on certain issues but mostly cleared.
Now I strongly agree and accept the suggestion given by brother Malabari and brother Frozen to meet and discuss in order to clarify the doubts and obtain proper explanations.
I am very sure (100%) ISLAM has the answers/solution to each and every question/doubts in your minds with due respect to what ever is your religion or language or region/caste we are from.
Thanks to Coelcanth, Plato (Ayman), Solomon for their active participation in this forum to understand and investigate the religion we follow.
Really appreciate all the efforts made by sisterfathima, Nicetonice and Malabari to enhance the knowledge and understanding of Islam in general.
Finally, an advice to my very good friend Qureshi for playing a fitna in the thread and killed this forum.
Lets continue to put all our efforts to seek and search for the true path and wish May Allah shall lead us to the Right path...Ameen!
Prophet Mohammed now?
Our belief is, Jesus established a church during His time on earth and to this church He gave His life to give them the right to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven comes judgment day. This applies to all people covered by the time He started preaching until the end of the world.
This church was apostatized and resurrected in this last days with the same name. That is why our church is the only Christian church that believes Christ is man and not God as mostly all those who proclaims they are Christians. We believe that Christ is now sitting at the right of His Father, our Lord God and waiting for God to send Jesus back to earth to get all those to be saved comes judgment day. As for all the people that came before Him, God have His way to judge them as He did in "the great flood", the "destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah", the Israelite, etc, etc.
We don't believe in idolatry and we have no "saints" as other religions have. We don't have the "rosary beads" (which I think was taken by Catholic to Islam practice). We don't have divorce with re-marriage option. We don't believe in multi-marriage and absolutely not to child marriage. We don't believe in same-sex marriage and definitely also a big no for live-in condition.
Our prayers are not memorized and neither repetitious. We pray a lot and we do congregational worship services as God commanded.
Now, if Sisterfatima keep on asking for verses, she is the expert in Bible and Quran, I wouldn't mind if she just search for it, I am not an expert in memorizing verses. If Quran contains some of the book that is also included in the Bible, it means, some of the information I gave above can be verified accordingly. If she insist, then I will invite her to come to Manila and talk to our Minister of Gospel and she will have all the time to ask for verses.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Coelacanth, Is the language also belongs to particular religion??? I already clarified you that What is Islam and How one will be muslim. I agree that Moosa (AS) was sent to the Israelites, not jews. Judaism is established after Moosa(AS) by his followers and they altered Moosa's(AS) teaching. The same way, Isa(AS) was the Prophet sent to Jews, not christians to correct them. His followers altered his teachings and established Christianity. Prophet Mohammed (SAW) was sent to the people to get them back to Islam, which is originally sent through the first Prophet Adam(AS).
brother qureshi,
dream??? LOLz
dear all,
i am leaving this forum due to the rude self attacking of brother qureshi
proof posts of Qureshi's abuse:-
Mon, 05/01/2009 - 2:21pm
Mon, 05/01/2009 - 1:44pm
Mon, 05/01/2009 - 1:31pm
Mon, 05/01/2009 - 11:55am
Sun, 04/01/2009 - 9:33pm
Sat, 03/01/2009 - 8:31pm
Sat, 20/12/2008 - 9:15am
Fri, 12/12/2008 - 11:58pm
Thu, 11/12/2008 - 11:12pm
Sun, 07/12/2008 - 11:57pm
Sun, 07/12/2008 - 3:24pm
Sun, 07/12/2008 - 3:02pm
Wed, 03/12/2008 - 1:06pm
Thu, 04/12/2008 - 10:05am
Sat, 06/12/2008 - 8:03pm
Wed, 03/12/2008 - 11:35am
Tue, 02/12/2008 - 11:00am
Mon, 01/12/2008 - 6:54pm
dear plato brother,
u keep trusting human reasoning of some diests and philosophers, at the same time u reject revealation book.
as a best pal, i am saying good bye. whenever u have any idea to visit abudhabi, doha, jeddah or riyadh, anywhere in india, and minnesota, kindly inform me through a private message, me and hubby wishing to grant a warm welcom for Ayman and his bride. wishing u a graciuos married life, aameen
dear coelacanth brother,
u keep reading Qur'an and just read the informative and friendly talk between me and plato brother. we have covered so many hard Qs beyond brain reasoning and plato supported angels, souls and spirits.
dear nice too nice brother,
jazaakallahu khiar for supporting me through out the posts, beware brother Qureshi who just want to make fight here. for any need, send a mail
dear malabari brother,
do not upload these type of great topic infront of fitna making people like brother Qureshi. as far the actual post "am i muslim or christian?", the answer is u r true christian, every true muslim is a true christian, the real followers of Jesus Christ peace be upon him.
dear dmightysolomon,
u r well aware about our discussion than brother qureshi,
i have answered all of ur Qs here. and i asked verses to prove ur arguments here, but u still did'nt give, but talking about expelling, we have answered it already.
u keep measuring other faiths without knowing what is written in ur scripture. read the top of the 7th page where u stopped answering. that's enough for u. my catholic frnds say ther r true christians.who will expell them?.mail me those verses i have asked at the last of our discussion. May God bless u brother, u r my buddy here. stay in touch!
dear brother pierrot,
who is at the door of hidayat,
how is australiya?
May GOD Almighty Bless you and your Family, May HE grant HIS great rewardz and higher distinctions in here and hereafter, aameen
dear all others
assalam alaikum
this might be my last post.
brother qureshi won in expelling me here,
thank u brother qureshi.
May ALLAH bless u and ur family in pakistan
My dear friend coelacant totally agreeing to your point
while reading the whol threads you can simply see that some people agenda here is something more than discussion which is lasting thier scholarly impression or taking it as a chance to critice religion.
I personally believe that this discussion cant be done this way coz if you believe to improve your information than better go for face to face discussion so you can use your mind and verbal means of communication rather then copying and pasting from thousands of websites.
I will be loving to discuss those issue over a cup of coffee and believe me within half an hour you get a fruitfull discussion rather than seeing these threads that can be measured in feets.
If you want to see this just ask thier typing speed and imagine that how long it takes to type all that staff in five minutes.
Please treat this as a formal invitation aswell.
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When the eye becomes the heart, the heart becomes the eye ... Wasif Ali Wasif
Platao, my Deist brother...thank you. I had my series of unfortunate events during my vacation, but my R&R is enough to charge me for another year in the Desert. lol.
frozen tear...no one hear is posing as scholars. This is a forum...everyone speak their mind (and cut and paste their research. lol) Great minds talk about IDEAS, Average mind talk about EVENTS, Small mind talk about PEOPLE. Everyone pose to be on the aforementioned, and not of the latter. Whatever is the outcome will depend on the reader, just like reading the news. Whether it's fabricated or not, we still keep on reading and watching it and doesn't tell them to stop even if you know that they are EXXAGERATING everything. If you don't want to participate, there are lots of post in QL that talk about Ideas, EVENTS and People, you can browse and join them.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Who says Abraham, Moses and Jesus were Muslims? They were JEWS. Abraham speak Hebrew, Isaac, his son, speak Hebrew, Israel speak Hebrew, and all the way to Jesus time, they speak HEBREW. They don't speak ARABIC. Moses is a Descendant of Israel, which makes him a Jew. Was their ancestry of being a JEW ever mentioned in Quran? Was Jerusalem, the "City of God" ever mentioned in Quran? According to the book, When God gave the covenant to Moses, he was talking to the ISRAELITES, who were JEWS. Now, how in the world were these Israelite descent referred to as Muslims?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
First of all, welcome back Coelecanth, my deist brother, hope you had fun on your vacations.
Nice too Nice: I'm gonna recheck some readings i made because i think there's a reference to Abraham and Mohamed saying they were Monotheists (only belived in 1 single God), but like you all know, i always like to have enough information so i don't fool anyone unintentional.
Sisterfatima/Brother Malabari/Victor : Hope you had a nice weekend :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Ceolacanth, now you can see the difference of Christian and Islam. What Muslim belief is Almighty Is Single and not son or father of His creations. He doesn't have any resemblance or similarity with any of His creations. And He doesn't have any companions.....
And Muslim will not change the law of Almighty for the comfort of the followers. Whatever Almighty prohibited is not good and whatever He allowed is good for mankind. He is having the Ultimate knowledge of everything. I am not forcing anyone to do something the way I do. I am pointing out here the teaching of Islam.(That is one of my responsibility) Acceptance by others doesn't matter.
I believe Christ Jesus is the Son of God and I believe in another last messenger, not Prophet Mohammed of Islam, so I could never be a Muslim. Yes I eat pork because the prohibition on it is already obsolete. I believe in monogamy, not polygamy. I don't believe in divorce. I don't believe in child marriage also. I don't believe in serving God/Allah the way you want it but by the way He want to be served and worship. I believe solely on the Bible as God's written words
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
May Hell Raised Upon You....Be The WAY United Ways Devil...said so
Coelacanth, Who said they all were not muslim? The one who Believes and prays to One Almighty, the Only Creator, and accepts his Prophets and Messengers (not considers)and follows their teachings is a Muslim. Islam is the religion taught by Almighty to the Mankind through several revelations which uprgaded time to time by HIM. The other religions are made by the followers of Those Prophets by altering their teaching after their period. Adam (AS) was Muslim, Moosa(AS) was Muslim, Isa (AS) is muslim. Muslim accept all those Prophets as Prophet of Almighty and we accept their teachings. It is sure that Islam is the only salvation. If dmightysolomon or anyone else Believe on The Almighty, Only creator and accepts the teachings of The last prophet will get salvation.
There is nothing to confuse. It is very clear, Almighty has sent Many Prophets/Messengers in times and He sent the Last Prophet with His Final revelation for the rest of Mankind. There Islam completes. These teachings to be followed by one who will be alive until the end of universe to get salvation. The Jews and Christians were doing the right things when their Prophets were present and later they altered the teachings according to the peoples comfort. Like christians are eating pork which is forbidden for them. Jews started worshipping cows etc.
U r right, even scholars don't dictate & blame what some people are doing here
I think I was the one who advised earlier not to carry that kind of discussion in that forum due to sensitivity of the topic and now its very clear that this thread is ending up in blame game and winning the debate.
As I mentioned earlier you simply cant preach your religion thru threads like this, you might be enlighting somebody with your information but when you information is not complete you cant answer delicite questions so in real terms instead of getting him closer you will drive them away.
As i can imaganine none of the fellows possess enough knowledge to answer all the queries so for God sake stop posing as scholars and divert the people who are eager to seek knowledge to religious scholars and leave them who just want arguments for the sake of arguments.
-----------------------------------------------------
When the eye becomes the heart, the heart becomes the eye ... Wasif Ali Wasif
nice too nice...None of them were Muslims. Adam is not a Muslim...Moses is a Jew. Jesus is Judaist. But still you defend Islam with the word, and not by the Religion. Islam is for those who followed the teachings of the Quran...not just believing in One God. Muslims follow Islam. Jews pray to only one God, but they are not Muslim and they don't follow Islam.
Tell me now, does religion play a major role in Salvation of Soul? Is Islam the only way to salvation of soul? dmightysolomon's religion only pray to One God and considered Jesus a prophet, are they part of Islam? Lots of confusion, since you are defending Islam as a word and not as a religion.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
and yet there is no expulsion? Who accept the "conversion" to Islam? God/Allah had appointed people to oversee His people (in Islam, I think the scholars and Imams), so if there are "converts" or "reverts", they are confirmed (some sort of baptized) in Islam, right? So if this same guy does not follow the Islam teachings exposed to evrybody, isn't it this guy should be expelled?
Question Sistrefatima, you believe Christ Jesus as only messenger, it means you don't believe that as of now, Jesus is sitting at the right side of our God/Allah?. And Jesus is waiting for the time God will send Him again to get all those to be saved comes judgment day! There will still be living persons as well as those who passed away already will be resurrected to be with Him in heaven/paradise.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Be happy in your dreams............
i can admit all those post u pointing me here, but i know your biased nature.
u keep blaming, brother nice too nice advised me dont care or mind u, so i will follow it insha allah.
i have proved my stand with proofs, now everyone can understand who is biased and who is lieing!
brother dmighty solomon,
i have simply asked to give me those bible verses supporting ur arguments about your doctrine, but ur reply is about what??
What did I advise you????????
First of all I didn't advise you anything....
Secondly I don't like to advise you because you are having biased attitude.....
I even didn't addressed you except once but you are the one, who is frequently writing to me.....
Coelacanth, You have a lot of confusions. First of all, please understand, Islam not established by Prophet Mohammed (SAW). Islam was introduced to the earth through the First Prophet Adam(AS) and passed through all of Almighty's Messengers/Prophets and finally reached to Prophet Mohammed(SAW). T
he teaching of First Prophet and the Last Prophet is the same. Pray To the Only One Almighty, Only Creator of universe. Nothing else.
Those Prophets/Messengers until Prophet Mohammed(SAW) was issued with certain objective to particular generation/community/region/period and all those instructions and teachings were supserseded by the revelation of The Holy Qur'an. The Almighty confirmed that the Revelation is full and final with the last verse of The Holy Qur'an and He will protect the revelation Himself from any modification/addition/delition which happened to His earleir revelations through the previous Prophets by their followers...
Islam means Believe and Pray to Only One Creator, Accept and follow His Prophets and Messengers. That is why Muslim is Accepting and loving all the Prophets and Messengers of Almighty.,
of conviction is not the Bible but it is very clear in the book that for anybody to be saved, he/she should belong to the chosen "children" of God He had mentioned on every time frame of the man's history. It means that during the Patriach time, God have His way to say who was His people then. During the Prophet time, God also have His own people. And lastly, during the Christian era, those who belong to the Church He created will be saved comes judgment day. For those who believe in other books I can not comment on their salvation ways.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
can u give me a ref post where qureshi advised u???
he just said to check the claims of sister fatima!
i wonder what is his revenge against me, i have no personal angry with him, but why he always pointing me?
good ref from bible given by malabari bro, now who is biased, perhaps qureshi is biased by giving one sided philosophy advises and partiality against me/
brother Qureshi , STOP BLAMING YOUR DISPARAGEMENTS AGAINST ME,
LOOK SLOMON DID'NT CLAIM UR ALLEGATIONS AGAINST ME BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHY I ASKED THOSE 13 QS BUT U DONT KNOW!
IF U R IGNORANT ABOUT OUR DISCUSSION, KEEP SILENCE OR POST ANYTHING RELEATED TO IT, WHY STANDING AGAINST ME AGAIN AND AGAIN???
solomon's communication made me to ask those Qs not my communication made him to ask 6 Qs because everyone know who first asked 6 Qs one by one, not me but he !
stop lieing again and again.
i defended colecanth alot!
i will admit those post now insha allah then u can't respond against it!
brother dmighty solomon,
right, my answer is same as u said about catholics, those who dont follow what is written in scripture is out of the faith simply. God expelled those already, and islam is the a way of life, its not an organization to expell others.
But i want to know about what is written in your scripture . i want verses for supporting your arguments about your doctrine. i have explained our salavation with the help of Qur'an, (its your right to belive in your faith and my right is to believe in my faith as Holy Qur'an said "your religion is yours and my religion is mine")here what i said are written in my scripture i have admitted it.and whatever i said about bible are supported by bible verses. so its your duty to admit those bible verses for supporting your dictrine.
IF U R NOT FAMILIAR WITH VERSES, THEN ASK OTHERS AND PRODUCE HERE.
brother qureshi, now stop ur unnecessary arguments against me!
this is the proof that i never kept allowed insulting our holyprophet jesus in Ql, u can refer.<
1)
Jesus said : "Verily I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet; and He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Prayer, and Zakath, as long as I live."
[Holy Qur'an 19:30,31]
Jesus said : "Verily God is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path."
[Holy Qur'an 19:36]
Jesus said : "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of God unto you, confirming the Taurath [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad (i.e.Muhammad)."
[Holy Qur'an 61:6]
"Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. He shall be (in the company) of the righteous... And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (3:45-48).
"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (19:30-35).
"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65)
"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).
"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).
Fri, 05/12/2008 - 6:33pm
2)
God created Adam without father and mother, is it hard to believe about Jesus???
it might be a miracle from GOD, is it hard to belive GOD can do miracles???
your have'nt answered my QS below
how can a liar influence in 500 million people in the world???
jesus(pbh) is accepted by christians and muslims, the major 2 followers of the world.
so he might be a mighty messenger from GOD
why can't u accept the challenge of Holy Qur'an??
any reasoning behind it???
brother timtan,and nice to nice
divorce is allowed in budhism.
http://web.singnet.c...
Sun, 07/12/2008 - 9:40am
3)
Coelacanth, Please do not abuse The Prophet of Almighty, It is not his mistake as he was introduced in wrong way in some books.
Mon, 08/12/2008 - 1:42pm
BROTHER QURESHI, THIS 3 POSTS PROVES MY POINT, NOW SHUT DOWN YOUR ADVISES, I DONT NEED IT ,
I HAVE SO MANY BROTHERS HERE TO SUPPORT ME.(INFACT SOLOMON KNOWS WHY I ASKED THOSE QS BUT U DONT KNOW)
STOP LIEING, PLEASE DO NOT DIVERT A PEACEFUL DISCUSSION INTO THIS WAY.
solomon knows who forced me to ask those Qs and he knows well who asked offensinve Qs repeatedly even after good answers are given. and eveyone can check it except u.
Qureshi, we are discuusing a good topic pecefully, and may be u made it peaceless by diverting the topic. Don't try to hijack the discussion, please.
nice too nice...the religion of Islam was only introduced after Mohammad, same as Christianity after Christ. Moses lived before Mohammad and Christ, and that doesn't make them Muslims. Judaism was the religion of Jesus then, and Christianity was only introduced by his followers. still, my question wasn't answered clearly, since you were claiming that being Muslim is the only salvation of your soul, and you will be asked by God if you are muslim or not. They are not Muslim...so what happens to their soul? If you will say that whoever follows the prophets/messengers, he will be rewarded. You mentioned that there are messengers everywhere not mentioned even in your book. Why claim that Islam is the only salvation, when you clearly state that whoever follows the messenger/prophets will be rewarded?
Buddhist have their messenger, will they be rewarded? Hindus have their messengers also...will they be rewarded? Deism doesn't have messengers, are we not going to be rewarded? the prophet that you only mention are those written in your book or you recognize the messengers of other religions? Still, a confusion about religion being the way to salvation, and God asking your religion when you die. I thought "who did good will be rewarded and who did bad will be punished(Unless he repent sincerely) irrespective of his religion/race/colour." If God only chose Islam to be the ONLY key to salvation of soul, isn't he a BIASED God? Why would God be biased and select only a few? Is it because "it was written" and because "he said so"?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
it means, we can practice our religion FREELY and without fear of deportation. God is compassionate and just. Islam says something but tolerate those who don't practice it and never expelled those who don't follow the teachings. How can you convince us to follow your belief when you can not even disciplined your followers.
And why are we persecuted (as in, we can not practiced our group worship freely and without intimidation from your kind)? Do you call that compassion, just and good? God/Allah is! Islam has to put in practice what they preach so you can attract more people!
And mind you sister, Bro Qureshi already adviced me about your complain. Very well-taken. Prove me otherwise!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
now its you who is lieing,
I was the one (not you) raised against Coelcanth on behalf of Jesus Christ o.k.
regarding dmightysolomon.....his comments were the result of your communication with him.........
Sister Fatima, please calm down...
the one who cannot tolerate the discussion will try to interfere with baseless arguments...Just ignore it.
Please answer the questions which deserves an answer and ignore the others....
brother Qureshi,
i wonder why u did'nt advised your brother dmighty solomon when he doubted Qur'an and asked offensive Qs against islam repeatedly even after good answers are given!
he did'nt answered the references i asked from bible!
if u have a good philosaphy than me, first u have to advice him, if u can't then stop advising me!
advice brother coelacanth for abusing prophet,
advice solomon for his words "islam is not pro GOD"
stop lieing, u can see my posts defending coelcanths' comments against our beloved prophet jesus.
we never kept allow to hurt it, plz stop your lies against me!
yes this is a open discussion, i said why i asked those Qs to solomon because of his replys , u can check.
if u can't advise them, then shut down ur advising here because u too blamed while asnwering to anasfk, dont u rememeber??
stop advising me!
i did nothing against any faith, my posts are open before everyone!
i can grasp the intolorence against me here!
i dont know why u alone responding this way against me!
read the discussion with nice too nice, plto and coelanath, where it made agressive?
i think your will is just to harrase me, i can see it from first, whenever u have an opportunuty, u keep blaming me through out the discussion, i wonder why????
one is the book of acts, individually and kept by one angel per person on earth. All acts of individual man is recorded by the angel, good or bad, secret or not secret, not a single act will be hidden from the angel.
The second book is Book of Life. And God/Allah kept this book personally. Anyone who wanted to be save comes judgment day, their names should be in the Book of Life!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Coelacanth, It is very clear, religion is something taught by The Then Prophet/Messenger to the community/generation and if one is followed that and lived accordingly, he will be rewarded.
And my answer doesn't contradict with the statement of my brother/sister(whom you pointed) here.
Brother coelcanth has asked question, which shows his interest & very positive behavior & I feel that you should reply.......
Nice too nice...what i quoted was a conclusion from your post. I don't see any other explanation in that. Your own words were "So, who did good will be rewarded and who did bad will be punished(Unless he repent sincerely) irrespective of his religion/race/colour." It's entirely different with your recent post. The question is, since those who lived prior to the time of Jesus were neither Christian nor Muslim, how could religion be the basis of the salvation of their soul? It is contradicting entirely with the post from a Muslim QLer stating that Allah will ASK YOU OF YOUR RELIGION WHEN YOU DIE.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
In context to your quote, you are still insisting about BIBLE controversy.....
Then I do have only one & simple question???????
Why did you use references from BIBLE to initiate this thread if BIBLE is so controvertial?????
By the way, abusive word for Jesus Christ was used on this thread.....reference is still there?????
it's not considered to be a good practice to hide/deny the fact....by any of the religion on earth.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Only Difference between Jew ,christian AND Muslims are they all know who they are but they are misunderstanding other ...it is not about poke..not about Jesus it is about you ...they all think they are better then other ... Think that their religion is great ...how??
Can any Jew ,christian AND Muslims give life to man...forget what about job...forget what about food...??
think again it will not be the Jew ,christian AND Muslims will be standing last but it gonna be god or evil..so what about man...he is only their to fight and be kill and get kill either as in war(world war),white war (riots,civil war...etc).red war (plague,HIV,cancer,T.B.,..ETC)
and what more even nature wants to screw all the human (Tsunami,tornado,earthquake,flood..even temperature) So Go FOR Humanity coz it will be your religion which will destroy you...Think Again Who??????
Only Difference between Jew ,christian AND Muslims are they all know who they are but they are misunderstanding other ...it is not about poke..not about Jesus it is about you ...they all think they are better then other ... Think that their religion is great ...how??
Can any Jew ,christian AND Muslims give life to man...forget what about job...forget what about food...??
think again it will not be the Jew ,christian AND Muslims will be standing last but it gonna be god or evil..so what about man...he is only their to fight and be kill and get kill either as in war(world war),white war (riots,civil war...etc).red war (plague,HIV,cancer,T.B.,..ETC)
and what more even nature wants to screw all the human (Tsunami,tornado,earthquake,flood..even temperature) So Go FOR Humanity coz it will be your religion which will destroy you...Think Again Who??????
belief (religion or whatever) FREELY without persecution! Without the fear of being arrested and deported. Everybody knows that this RESPECT is not practice here in this region, whatever or however they reason this out!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Salam alaikum brother Qureshi,
What a misunderstanding is this, plz understand my brother
1) how can we abuse prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him) As muslim have more Respect,rights, love in Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) than a Christain . Then is it possible for us to abuse him.?????????????????
2) If you go thru the previous threads as well as sply Sister Fathima's thread, you will clearly understand we mentioned tat Bible was correptd by that its pointing only to the peoples who did this after the life time of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him)And how can that responsibility or that blame will fall on our prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him) , then how dare you say its our biased attitude that we are trying to abuse him bla bla, we have many proofs that the bible what you people are using is different from the Message revealed thru Prophet Jesus Peace be upon him. Can you bring any proof that it was not at all corruptd or no human hands didnt change the views,verses,thoughts,or the lessons favourable to them.....? And we never try to abuse Prophet Jesus (Peace be upon him) why shud we do it..?For Eg: if a person's grandson & the grandsons friends did any mistakes which was favouralbe and more affordable to him and other peoples try to making him correct, and try to guide him in a true path means will that equal to abuse his Grand Father ??????????????
3)Then all the peoples who are peacefully trying to accept the truth or seeking for the truth never say its a non-peaceful discusions am damn sure in that. Then still you have time to accept the truth or atleast open you eyes towards the true light and true path. So i hope you understand that, Muslims are more following,loving,& respecting prophet jesus (peace be upon him) than Christains.
May almighty ALLAH grace & guide all of us.
I appreciate your kind understanding.
With Kind Regards
ur brother
Malabari
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Coelacanth, Just read my post fully and don't quote as out of context. I said that whoever followed the teachings of Almighty through His messengers/Prophets and lived accordingly will be rewarded and the one who denied the teachings or lived against that will be punished. Is it clear now?
There were more than 124000 messengers/prophets sent by Almighty in different periods and different generations. And at the end He sent Prophet Mohammed (SAW) as the last Prophet/messenger for the whole mankind thereafter. Until Prophet Mohammed(SAW), All other prophets/Messengers were sent to certain generations/communities/regions and Prophet Mohammed(SAW) sent to All mankind. To follow the Prophet/Messenger teaching is one of the condition to accept your deeds.
Qureshi, Don't blame like that. See my comments below:
nice too nice said Coelacanth, Please do not ...
Coelacanth, Please do not abuse The Prophet of Almighty, It is not his mistake as he was introduced in wrong way in some books.
Mon, 08/12/2008 - 10:42am edit reply
nice too nice...the follow up question was...since they are neither christian nor muslim, whoever did GOOD will be rewarded. So that leaves us to conclude that RELIGION DOES NOT PLAY A ROLE in SALVATION, since the only basis is to Do Good. Why is it that on the previous posts from our Muslim brothers, they mentioned that Allah will ask you of your Religion when you die, which is in contradiction to your post as a Muslim that "who did good will be rewarded and who did bad will be punished(Unless he repent sincerely) irrespective of his religion/race/colour"?
RELIGION DOES NOT PLAY A ROLE in SALVATION...would you agree? If not, then you are contradicting your own statement.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Ceolacanth, Welcome back.
The question you raised is What happened to the souls of those people who had lived thousand years prior to Jesus and Mohammad's revelation? Are all of them thrown into the fiery pit because they were not Christians or Muslims? Can anyone confirm this?
The first Man on the Earth was Prophet Adam(AS)who was the first messenger of Almighty. And he taught about the Creator and how to Thank HIM. Since then each generations were given a Messenger/Prophet by Almighty and taught them how to live(how to obey/thank The Almighty). So who ever followed the teachings of the time and lived accordingly will be given the reward and who denied will be punished. So don't think that the souls of who lived before Isa(AS) and Mohammed(SAW) will thrown to the fire. The Almighty won't do injustice to any of HIS creations. He is the supreme Judge and He is Omnipotent. So, who did good will be rewarded and who did bad will be punished(Unless he repent sincerely) irrespective of his religion/race/colour.
Ceolacanth, Welcome back.
The question you raised is What happened to the souls of those people who had lived thousand years prior to Jesus and Mohammad's revelation? Are all of them thrown into the fiery pit because they were not Christians or Muslims? Can anyone confirm this?.
The first Man on the Earth was Prophet Adam(AS)who was the first messenger of Almighty. And he taught about the Creator and how to Thank HIM. Since then each generations were given a Messenger/Prophet by Almighty and taught them how to live(how to obey/thank The Almighty). So who ever followed the teachings of the time and lived accordingly will be given the reward and who denied will be punished. So don't think that the souls of who lived before Isa(AS) and Mohammed(SAW) will thrown to the fire. The Almighty won't do injustice to any of HIS creations. He is the supreme Judge and He is Omnipotent. So, who did good will be rewarded and who did bad will be punished(Unless he repent sincerely) irrespective of his religion/race/colour.
Such discussion which involves abusing to Jesus Christ & blaming Bible, might be peaceful for you..MASHAALLAH
@VICTOR BHUTT.....Kindly go back & review the communication & comments.....you will find evidences of abusing Jesus Christ & blaming Bible as corrupted... Most insulting word was used against Jesus Christ...sisterfatima & all others kept quiet and allowed him to continue WHY??? + sisterfatima is the one who claimed that Bible is corrupted......WHY????
Because of biased attitude
Is this a peaceful discussion......ya sistefatima????
@sisterfatima, first of all I know your purpose very well... that's why I don't want & I didn't write you.....I wrote my comments to foolish only....This is an open discussion.
whew...i was on vacation and didn't use the internet for awhile...and i had a lot of catching up to do. Before anything else, Happy New Year to all.
just one question though: What happened to the souls of those people who had lived thousand years prior to Jesus and Mohammad's revelation? Are all of them thrown into the fiery pit because they were not Christians or Muslims? Can anyone confirm this?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
sisterfatima/Victor/nicetoonice/Malabari/Qureshi: yes i can confirm we are only debating, as brother Victor just stated no one owns 100% trueth :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
dear brothers plato, nice too nice, malabari, parrot the clown, and victor bhatt
truth indeed!
brother qureshi,
look here, how many siblings are here in QL for supporting me?, masha allah, i am glad!
this page is a testimony that we discussed a great topic very peacefully and politley.
NOW RESPOND TO THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS OF MY BROTHERS
PLATO:-lol, we are just discussing not hoping to get "a Certification of Salvation" ;)
NICE TOO NICE:-We are not fighting here. We are discussing about islam and Diesm. I never blame any other religion or belief here. And there is no insult/dishonest/disrespect. I think Coelacanth and Platao will agree with me...
VICTOR BHATT:-yes we all are intelligent enough to understand what we have learned so far....but please accept that knowledge is a big sea and one could never-ever confirm that he is fully aware of everything.
Therefore, in this forum sisterfathima, nice to nice and Malabari are sharing informations with Plato and no claims for superiority here.
with foolish, Qureshi and Plato; yes we all are intelligent enough to understand what we have learned so far....but please accept that knowledge is a big sea and one could never-ever confirm that he is fully aware of everything.
Therefore, in this forum sisterfathima, nice to nice and Malabari are sharing informations with Plato and no claims for superiority here.
Remember even if one is 100% correct; one can only show the true path BUT only Allah could lead us to the True path.
Dear Foolish and Qureshi, We are not fighting here. We are discussing about islam and Diesm. I never blame any other religion or belief here. And there is no insult/dishonest/disrespect. I think Coelacanth and Platao will agree with me...
lol, we are just discussing not hoping to get "a Certification of Salvation" ;)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Your comments are relly intellegent & reasonable, but such people just want to impose their philosophy to others & those people do insult/disrespect/dishonour to the philosophy of others because they have prove their's 100% correct.....but they don't understand that this is a major cause of Hatred and Blood Shed........while as a matter of fact those forcing people consider it as a Certification of Salvation for them.
never ending topic....
why can't we respect each others belief and live in harmony? so we have peace on earth...
Meseri Cordiador= Beneficiente
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
I work at Lisbon airport :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Brother Malabari, that's a muslim pray translated to portuguese, i'm leurning in the book called Islam in focus, written by Hammudah Abdalati:
Em Nome de Allah , O Misericordioso, O Meseri Cordiador
-> Louvado seja Allah, O Senhor Dos Mundos
-> O Beneficiente, O Misericordioso
-> O Senhor Do Dia Do Juizo Final
-> So, a Ti Adoramos e so de Ti imploramos ajuda
-> Guia-nos no caminho correcto
-> O caminho dos que agraciaste, nao o caminho desses que incorreram em tua ira nem a dos desemcaminhados.
This is Al-Fatiha or Al-Hamd
Are you sure you want me to talk portuguese? ;)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Salam alaikum
Oh brother, i thought you are in DOHA, so you are in Portugal, so basicaly you are from. ?? You know Portugeese ryt..? plz read this one
Em Nome de Allah , O Miseri Cordioso, O Meseri Cordiador
-> Luvor a Allah, O Senher Dos Mundos
-> O Miseri Cordioso, O Miseri Cordiador
-> O Soberano Do Dia Do Juizo
-> So, a Ti Adoramos e so de Ti imploramos ajuda
-> Guia-nos a senda reta
-> A senda Dos que agraciaste, nao a dos incursos em tua ira nem a dos descaminhados.
So what you do in Portugeese.
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Brother Malabari: I would gladly meet you if i was at Doha but i'm in Portugal, but i want to go there one day to meet all QL friends, and this includes you, sisterfatima and nice too nice :) :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Salam aleykum, How are you....? hope you all doing well.
@ Plato, from your post you mentioned that you would like to share some ideas, so i am in DOHA itself, if you dont mind, shall we arrange a meeting. SO that insha allah, i hope we can share some ideas with real references. I think this will give you gud experiance. If you ready plz let me know brother. I wil arraange a meeting for us in FANAR (Qatar Islamic Cultural Centre)
Looking 4wrd to hear from you.
WassaLaaaaaaaM
Mohammed
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Platao.
you said Nature is God. Could you define nature please? And what do you mean by nature forces
Nice to Nice: As a last thought for 2008 i'll reply you, I don't see or feal God, does that mean he doesn't exist? I haven't seen any E.T. but my reasoning tells me that they exist.
Regarding Nature, just do like this:
God = Nature and Angels = Nature forces
Nature created the forces, just like God created the angels, it only means that Natural forces belong to Nature as Angels belong to God.
Please stop confusing messengers/spirits with angels.
hmmm, you don't know Allan Kardec....that's ok, i'll copy and paste some bibliograph details, espiritism isn't really a religion but it's part of all religions.
i'll even do better, gonna create some topics related to it in Politics, Culture and Religion forum area, feal free to read it and comment there.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Platao, May question was:
as per you, Angels are God helpers and your God is nature, then what is Angels? Can you differentiate Your Nature God and your angels?
and your answer was:
"then what is Angels? Can you differentiate Your Nature God and your angels?"
I'm only an human, i never contacted any angel or God.
(As per your Diesm theory, you should reason it to believe and unless you see or contact them, how do you believe that they are existing?(Diesm or reasoning theory fails here, isn't it?)
Do you think that you answered genuinely? Being nature is your God and Nature forces are angels, you clarifies that angels are part of your God??? Its Totally confusing.
My Almighty is not part of any of his creations. He is the Only Perfect. And I do not need to see Him or Angels to believe on Almighty and His Angels. We have the Revelations from Him, not from some like me and you, and sent to us through the Best human being ever born.
On what basis i should trust on the book of Allan Kardec? Who was he? Though(as per you)he wrote book only 200 years ago, how many people in the world know about him?
Did you seen him? How you make sure that the book is written by him. Was there one person named Allan Kardec lived in this world? Is there any proof for that?
ok dear bro, take your own time, i am not hurry in answers, i too have to cover some of your comments today, insha allah i will do it tomarrow.
one thing i have to remind,
1
just check this page! when i asked some Qs logically expecting answers from you in human reasoning to prove you that you can't answer some Qs with logical reasoning.
2
when u can't answer with diesm, u supported angels, souls, spirits, nature for justifying your answers.
3
and now pointing some references from man made websites, qoutes of some philosophers books yet u know their reasoning might have mistakes and they r not perfect beings or messengers!
4
what's the commonsence in it dear???
You really wish to trust human reasoning?
5
if yes, we muslims follow good reasoning,is'nt it?
following Qur'an is enough good than following certain unknown books(non revealation as u claim)written only 200years ago by human, is'nt it???
6
It seems like this conversation will never end. It’s not logical or human reasoning for someone to believe in things like angels, souls, nature, etc.
Dont you see, even when you think you are using your own reasoning, you have still come back to what is mentioned in some books!
Yes!!! not all humans believe in Allah. even after knowing the truth many ignore........ they r getting ready for the hell fire
Sisterfatima and all others Qlers participating:
I'm fealing lazy today and to reply to sisterfatima i need to pay a lot of attention and write some sort of "testament" (ironic word to define a big text ;)
I'll be back to this matter either tomorrow or thuersday ;)
Victor: lol, i'm enjoyning talking to them, mainly sister fatima, think we all have been leurning a lot with each others and that's how God wants us, His creation to leur to talk and exchange ideas without any need to use violence :)
God bless you all my brothers and sisters
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
GOOD ANSWERS BY IMRANY76 - Well done......... Jazakallah Khair
Yes i will tell u whom humans prayed to before the advent of the 'Messengers'? I think u know Adam & eve they were the first human beings who came on earth & they believed in Allah (God)
and Platao strength to Read and understand Quran with its real virtues! Ameen
Your heart need an Eye to see Allah and angle, we don't need support from Science and technology to prove our Faith.
Believe me it is Only in Allah's hand to grant you Hidayaa (to bring you to True path of Islam and nobody else either sisterfatima or nice too nice could convince you my friend! Anyway Happy new year to You as well!
Then y don't u make a research on islam & u will stop thinking wat a joke means......
brother plato, welcome back.
insha allah i will touch all of your comments in the last two posts, but let me point out the untouched comments of mine :)
And how about the rules of man? Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules? Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
If God is so Sublime, Why would he create a machine and not give us the manual? I.e. why create us..our bodies.. or minds...and not give us some sort of guidance?
You tell me, why did God allow the tsunami to kill so many people? Islaam gives us explanation for these calamities. How can God not interfere? Tell me, why does your heart beat? Do you tell it to? Who do you think controls that? Who do you think removes and add your soul into your body?!
why is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealations???
i have answered your claim about contradictions, have u read?
"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than GOD, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy." (chapter 4, verse 82)
So point out ONE,(Only one) contradiction in the Quruan..
GOD challenged the mankind in His revelation
"Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah.- If ye speak the truth!" (chapter 11, verse 13)
Again GOD makes the challenge 'simpler'
"Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"(chapter 10, verse 38)
The shortest Sura(chapter) in the Quruan is sura 103, contains only 3 verses.
1 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
2 Verily Man is in loss,
3 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
So this is a challenge to you and all the people who denied GOD revelation ( Quruan)
But if you mean that contradictions are in Torah and Gospel (collectively known as Bible), ok I agree that. But when GOD revealed this books to the Moses and Jesus (peace be upon both of them),there is no contradictions in that books.
After,this Messengers passed away the people changed this books according to their wishes.
“Exactly, Nature is all that surround us, some of us, Deists, belive that Nature is God, i belive that nature is at least part of God.”
What do you mean Nature is all around us? What do YOU believe nature is, who created it and its purpose. And Why is the All Powerful God in need of something like nature? And Where is God?
“Of course i have, that's why i become a medium, only stopped because at a certain time the messages were coming directly to my mind even before the glass would finish the sentence.”
When you say medium…you mean….you communicate with the dead? Or you connect the dead with the living? Explain yourself, it seems like this is treading on to the Sci-Fi channel!
“Where did i say that i don't belive his laws? As a Deist, i belive that everything obey's to God's laws and that's why i don't belive in Satan or evil or hell."
You denied the revelations as you do not accept the Laws sanctioned in them.
You don’t believe in Evil? So hitler is what? A good guy!
As for everything obey’s God law. That’s rubbish. So people who don’t believe in God, obey God’s law?
“Let me make you a proposal, i use the reasoning and you use your faith to fly it ;)
Mankind isn't a plane. Mankind has already shown that they can leurn just observing nature, and using the example you gave concerning piloting a plane, where is it written in any of the revelation books how to fly a plane? Weren't the Wright brothers the 1st to pilot a plane?"
I wouldn’t use ‘faith’ to fly the plane. I believe God has given me the ability to learn and thus eventually fly. However, even then, I put my trust in Him as I only have so much control over the plane!
Your question regarding the wright brs is very odd. It seems like you are looking for arguments without thinking first.
Ok, God does inform us that HE was the one who granted us knowledge and taught us how to read, write, etc Do you think the wright brs used reasoning to build the plane? If so, can you do the same? Ofcourse not! You yourself said you lack knowledge of physics! So my point is that God inspired them and showed them how to build the plane.
Infact, MANY inventions were accidents!
Lets see you utilize your reasoning now, we have flys that simply take of vertically, but our planes don’t, can you used your observance of nature to see why?
Why do we teach children how to cross the road? Shouldnt they know by reasoning that you should see if a car is passing before running onto the road?
“You are confused, probably due to the huge size of the replies, it's easyer to belive in 1 God that set all the laws of nature than in a God that contradicts himself, that says that he's perfect but shows demandings of a dictator? Please don't be offended with this words of mine, not attacking faith just stating my point.”
Demandings of a dictator? When God says to feed the poor, help the need and be good to your wives, He is being a dictator?
Just as you teach your son NOT to play with fire , or he will get burnt; God teaches us (His creation!) to be good humans and how to do so, or we will cause destruction to ourself. This is becoming evident. We have Gay marriages now, transsexuals roaming around and even legalized prostitution and Incest in some countries! All in the name of ‘consenting adults!’
Crime rates are soaring, the rich get richer, etc. This is what human reasoning leads to. When GOD's LAWS ruled, the world was at peace.
And please don’t say crusaders were Christians as their true intentions have been exposed. They used their greedy reasoning to try make a path for trade of spices from the east, but didn’t want to go through the arab world/traders.
“Already replied this question when i spoke about the spirit evolution until it becomes an angel and helps God with all his matters.I don't make hard questions because could be considered an attack to someone's faith.”
Hard questions, you mean offensive questions. Please ask what you wish.
You never prooved that the Angels or even Souls exists. Show me you’re your reasoning came up with that!
“I don't doubt that things maybe manipulated or organized by God, i want people to point me out in their Holly books where does God teach man to light fires, to build engines, to make reference to other planets, etc...”
If you want scientific miracles, then refer to the Qur’aan. The Qur’aan is not a book of science but of guidance.
It’s easy for God to put ALL inventions into book, but you know how many books that would take?
Priests? Well, as i stated previouslly, i'm converting to Islam but not because of reasoning but because of love, and according to the Sheik, beliving in God is already a huge step to be muslim and after reading some parts of the Qur'an i found out that God wants you to racionalize and not following a book blindly.”
The Qur’aan is a book of guidance. God has given it to men of REAL reasoning to follow. He never forced us to follow it or said we should follow it blindly. However, if we do not understand something, we may still follow it because our tiny minds cannot comprehend the wisdom and knowledge of God and why He revealed what He revealed. The below 5 verses are my humble wedding gift for you and your bride, barakallahu feekum!.
“…But those who disbelieve invent lies against GOD, and most of them have no understanding.” (Al-Ma'idah 5:103)
“Indeed in their stories, there is a lesson for men of understanding. It (the Qur'an) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of the GOD's existing Books and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a Mercy for the people who believe.” (Yusuf 12:111)
“Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you (O Muhammad SAW) from your Lord is the truth be like him who is blind? But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed.” (Ra'd 13:19)
“Is it not a guidance for them (to know) how many generations We have destroyed before them, in whose dwellings they walk? Verily, in this are signs indeed for men of understanding.” (Ta-Ha 20:128)
“(This is) a Book (the Qur'ân) which We have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may ponder over its Verses, and that men of understanding may remember.” (Sad 38:29)
“Well, it's not only the Qur'an, the Bible and the Torah have references to science too, not sure if more or less than the Qur'an, still have to fully read it to see how many references it makes to science.”
Yes, but many of the Biblical ones are wrong. Do you not know of Galileo and how the Christians locked him up???
“As a spiritist, how could i not belive in a soul if during the mediunic session i used to talk to souls/spirits. Regarding Jesus, his spirit/soul is alive but his body...is ashes by now.”
How do you know those were souls your were speaking to? So you use those séance boards?
Amazing, for someone who uses reasoning, you have been fooled by some small trickery. And you mocked Moses!
You need to prove using your reasoning that spirits and angels exist.
I can explain any supernatural phenomena you experience with your ‘magic board’
You were fooled by what is called a Jinn. And yes, they have knowledge of what people do and thus it can pretend to be someone.
Jinn have also been mentioned in the Qur’aan and other scriptures.
As for your séance. Let me explain what happens: Everyone is accompanied with a jinn and angel. The jinn is the one that tells you (by whisperings) to do bad stuff. Anyway, when you die, your jinn doesn’t necessarily die too. He then goes to these fortunetellers and ‘mediums’. So when you think you are speaking to someone deceased, you are actually talking to his jinn, who is pretending to be him.
“"Yes He could but he didn't ;)”
But why? If God was just, why not make everyone the same colour? What could he benefit from making different colours?
That site about spirit you given didn’t work.
How do you know God exists? How do you know All this isn’t an experiment by some Aliens? – as some people actually believe!!
4. You believe in Death, but don’t really know what happens after. To say souls turns into angels is as logical as a hindu saying souls are reincarnated!
5. You believe that pain and suffering has a purpose. Even though this is a concept only found in Religion. Most people, who use reasoning, never comprehend pain and suffering and often lose their religion.
Wake up! Your belief is made of bits and pieces of other dogmas! You deny revelation, yet you believe is souls? Why because you spoke to one? What if I say I believe in revelation because I read some of this revelation? That argument is weak.
How you managed to believe God created us all and then left us to roam around like animals is strange. You dont wonder some people are rich and some are poor? Why some people are tall and some are short? some are born with deformaties and some are not? How we have so much evil and hate? How we can have murderes and rappists? What are we here? What is our destination? Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination?
plz give agood reply to brother nice too nice!
we belive in Qur'an as revealation of GOD, its scientific accuracies, prophesises and perfection in linguistics, and preserved, protected right now from human hand attacks proves its divinity. Its the fastest growing faith and most of its reverts are scientists, professors, highly qaulified students and women.
so they might found good human reasoning for embracing this noble faith. That's why i answered your Questians with this glorious book. but u have to answer him!
as per you, Angels are God helpers and your God is nature, then what is Angels? Can you differentiate Your Nature God and your angels? So, as per your above post, all souls will be turned to angels- that means to forces of nature.......wow..interesting.
who wrote the non revelation book? how I know it is from spirit? what is the evidence for that????
what is the logic in something you find in man made websites and books, yet u denied revealations!
so if your reasoning fails, u support your comments with plato and other philosophers books?
may they have mistakes?
or did they claim as divine?
brother, you have no right to convince us with human written books only because that u denied the revealation books which billions of people beleiving in.
if you accept our books are good reference, then we can accept the logic bibliography in your answers
according to you, the good people become angels and the bad people…..they don’t become angels?
Really? Is this your theory?
First of all, can you prove to me angels exist. I have never seen an angel, spoken to one or even touched one.
but we belive in angels only because our revealtion holy book said so, we belive this book is from GOD,simply this reasoning enough for us.
There is no scientific proof that they exist or any human reasoning why they ever would need to exist, so how did you even consider that they exist.
Is this perhaps something you watched on tv?...
So tell me, it seems like you believe in re-incarnation?!
How do you know the soul exists? It makes no sense that it does nor can we prove it scientifically or with reasoning.
Second, everything happens for a reason? Really? And how did you come up with that? How could you possibly have reasoned that out? So you would sit next to your son’s death bed and tell him ‘everything happens for a reason?’
Closer to God? Tell me, What does your God look like? Where is He? Who is He? And Why would He create things then kill them?! if u use any man made books to answer this Qs clearly proves that u r not following your brain reasoning. Belive in the book of a perfect being GOD and not belive in the words of imperfect being like philosophers because sure they might have mistakes!
“Regarding situation in Africa, my body doesn't accept such situation, but my soul says that those souls suffering all that will be 1 step closer to God if they manage to pass the test. Justice in animals: I may sound cruel with what i'm about to say but that's how an impartial being would see the things, 1 ant's life is as important as a human's or a plant's life, to God, all life is important, for him to kill thousands of ants or thousands of humans has the same value, he wont punish none because it's each being "nature".”
Test? Wow? Where did you get that from? So to you, seeing someone suffering is a test? This is your human reasoning? Test for……
Again with this ‘nature’? Who is this ‘nature’?
"As i stated previouslly, Nature is our teacher, remember that Man leurned to use fire without any other teacher beside the physic laws of Nature, can't be too specific because i don't know much about physics."
Again, you haven’t proved that ‘nature’ exists or even what it is.
Do you actually believe in things like cavemen? I hope you know that Evolution is baseless and any paints they made of so called cavemen were fictional. Perhaps they thought their older generations looked like apes, but we believe we were always humans, as science tells us.
And as for fire, its very likely God taught adam how to make fire. It’s very easy and doesn’t take a genius.
“Regarding Moses, don't you feal that a God that can't release His own people by himself but that imposes to that People to obey his laws sounds fake? Once again these kind of contradictions are the ones that make us racionalize and say that the people who wrote the "revelation" books have misunderstood some messages from God's messengers.”
No, I don’t feel this because its nonsense.
Because you have no knowledge of what happened, you have jumped to foolish assumptions.
God sent MANY messengers to Jews and told them to be firm in their belief. But they disobeyed him and He let them get punished. THEN they begged him for help and they ALWAYS asked for Messengers as they wanted leaders! (refer to the story of David and Goliath!)
Even with moses, they jews actually built and started worshipping a golden calf!! And even with all the common sense, they still were stupid enough to do that! Even when God saved them, they turned their worship to created things.
God has always imposed His laws on us. Is gravity not one of His laws?! and is it not His right to do so? Are we here to say what God can and cannot do?
“Exactly, you are reasoning now, remember that you said that "Prophet Jesus, Jews at that time had great knowledge in Medicine. They cured broken bones and the people were amazed by this. Thus, jesus's miracles revolved around healing, eg healing the blind, the leaper, etc.", how many medics have ressurected the death? Lazarus was a friend of Jesus of Nazareth”
Again, Lazarus’s resurrection is in the bible and we don’t necessarily believe it. Our scholars have said that infact the jews tested Jesus and said we aren’t impressed with anyone who died now and you resurrected him. They wanted someone who died some time back and then Jesus resurrected one of the son’s of Noah!!
Regardless, it’s not WHO jesus resurrects, but the fact he did so, by God’s will. It was just to prove he was not an imposter and was a real messenger.
“We could say that Nature is God. What some people think doesn't mean they were correct all the time, just like people always remember about the holly books being so old and needing to be updated, the same has happened with Human knowledge, somethings that were true some years ago are now lies after new discoveries by science.”
The Qur’aan doesn’t need updating, its countless consistant miracles justifies it and countless testimonials including it is perfectly preserved without attacking human hands and gaurded its authenticty and divinity. I have no authority to claim updation for another revealation books like bible. Because it edited and updated in nicea council already and have so many versions right now, so we can find so many scientific errors in it. You ‘could’ say nature is God? Is it because you don’t actually know?
“Remember that only in the 20th century that kind of mentalitty started to change, but previouslly it were the religious scolars that had those positions, remember that arabs were already slaving people from black africa even before europeans arrive to Africa and they had the same idea that black people were inferior to them, finnally that mentality is almost over and people today don't see them as a different race, after all we are all humans.”
Arabs would take ALL kinds of slaves. Slaves from black races, white races, etc. At the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) there were such slaves and they were freed eventually! Infact, one of these slaves, Salman, was a Persian! Who had a massive empire at that time. Anyway, there is no connection between Arabs and Muslims. Islaam is universal and the laws of Islaam were set in place in such a way to destroy slavery. First by giving them rights and respect, then freeing them in ways that involved doing good deeds. This had such an impact that many slaves eventually became scholars and some, even when freed, stayed with their Muslim masters (although not as slaves).
Islaam has a strict policy against racism. God is very clear about this in the Qur’aan and this was revealed BEFORE Darwin and co. Have you not seen the Muslims standing in line in prayer? or the Pilgrimage? This is when Malcom X really saw brotherhood!
“So, shouldn't i feal offended when you call such monster a Deist? Are the Zionists deists or jews? Bush is christan, not a deist.”
Why would you feel offended? Ok, perhaps I will explain in more detail: Bush believed (using his tiny reasoning) that it was right to invade Iraq. Everyone said no! and there is no scriptural backing for his actions or any religious. Thus he acted on his small intellect and now regrets it.
Even if they are not diest by name, their methodolygy (of using the human ‘reasoning’) is there and hence I used it as an example.
It seems like this conversation will never end. It’s not logical for someone to believe in things like angels, souls, nature, etc.
Nice to nice: Sorry didn't noticed your post, will reply to it, :)
"then what is Angels? Can you differentiate Your Nature God and your angels?"
I'm only an human, i never contacted any angel or God.
"So, as per your above post, all souls will be turned to angels- that means to forces of nature.......wow..interesting."
Probably yes, can't say how many.
"who wrote the non revelation book? how I know it is from spirit? what is the evidence for that????"
Allan Kardec wrote it. The book was written about 200 y ago, not over than 1000 years as the revelation books and it isn't considered revelation. Guess this replies to these questions.
The God os Deism is perfect, omnipotent, omnipresent and isn't a dictator but a perfect father that loves all creation the same way, he isn't jealous, and he lives on our hearts (just a metaphore), sorry if i don't make a very long exposition but i'm fealling lazy today :)
Anyway, happy new year :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Platao, you are ignoring all of my questions. What it does mean? Don't you like to reply or you don't have a clear answer for that. Any way leave it..
I have another question with reference to your latest post....
You summarized that "The God of the "Revealed Books" isn't perfect, omnipotent or omnipresent and was created by Man." I don't agree with your comments and the question is 'what about the God of Diest'?
Resuming my previous post:
So, you agree that God is perfect, omnipotent and omnipresent, good.
So, as a perfect being he doesn't commit mistakes, he creates everything as it should be, correcting His creations is the same as telling Him that he did a mistake. Right?
Also he doesn't need to impose His authority because He knows what He created.
We all know how fealings may betray reason, as a perfect being He'll always use His illimited reasoning to overpower any "human fealings".
As Omnipotent he controls/knows everything, including angels, seraphins, demons, djins, etc....
Why can't He control Satan? Shouldn't Satan obey Him?
As omnipresent, he sees everything and he's everywhere, so, you better watch out when you point that finger (just a bite of humor ;)).
Now more seriouslly, you can't hide your thoughts from Him.
"5.This question is similar to someone saying their brother is pregnant and you ask what the baby’s gender is?!!"
hmmmm, so, asking who created God is the same that ask "my pregnant brother" his baby gender?
I would undestand such a reply as asking to an impossibility who created Him?
Summary:
God is perfect but makes mistakes as any human would do.
God is omnipotent but can't control Satan.
God is omnipresent but he turns his face the other side when things are done by the "revelation" People but punishes any whom that makes some mistakes as the people of the "revelation".
Conclusion: The God of the "Revealed Books" isn't perfect, omnipotent or omnipresent and was created by Man.
P.S.- How many Angels have been reported to have died?
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Victor: Thanks i'll read more deeply about the profet, i'm already reading a bite, i have leurned that he was a kind and inteligent person ( inteligence has nothing to do with studying) ;)
But as a human, he had his limitations but i think that his good deeds should work as an example for everybody, just like Jesus, Ghandi and Delai Lama.
Peace
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Before i start replying, good morning all, hope u had a nice weekend.
Sisterfatima:
"So, according to you, these souls return back to their bodies and have to ‘re-live’ their lives?"
These souls reencarnate on a different body, and may not be in this planet or dimension.
"Where are these so called angels? And What is there purpose? I am still waiting for the proof that they exist. "
Angels / seraphins / Djins , all help God.
Hmmm, never had the fealing that you have "someone or something" watching for you on those times of need? God isn't private to each person but angels are.
"We believe angels have different functions. They are a creation of God, but have no freewill. They do as God commands and some bring revelation down (like angel Gabriel),some are gatekeepers of hell, some record good deeds, some are constantly in worship, etc. Believing in Angels is a pillar of our faith and we have a great amount of detail on them."
I agree with almost all you say about angels and will correct what i don't agree with.
A revelation, following the ideas of the "Revelation Books" is an imposition from one People over the others, " Do as we do or our God will destroy you", what a perfect father would only teach one of his children and than ask her to taught all others because he couldn't do himself?
Please, don't be offended with my reasoning.
Now to your summary.
"1. You believe in God, but don’t know anything of Him. You don’t know where He is, Why He created this world, etc etc"
Reread line 1 of my reply. Already told you why he created this world, i ain't a broken record.
"2. You believe in Angels, but have absolutely no knowledge of them. You claim you use reasoning, yet you believe in these insivible creatures found in scriptural books!"
Spirits of higher level don't lie and i wasn't the only one to whom it was said about angels, as you can find out if you read The Book of Spirits.
"3. You claim you believe in the Soul, yet this is illigocal. Where is exactly is your soul? And why can we see it? "
I advise you to read the allegory of the cave by Plato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave)
"Full name Plato (Πλάτων)
Birth c. 424–423 BC, Athens
Death c. 348–347 BC, Athens (aged 76 approx)"
As you may notice after you read about him, reasoning is even older than any revelated religion, before him, Socrates had studied about it too, if 2 of the world's more important philosophers of the world, 2350 years ago, already defended the same reasoning that us Deists do now.
"6. You believe in Nature. The reality is that Nature is something people use to explain phenomenon they don’t understand. For example, they associate nature with weather, earth, animals, plants, etc when in reality, It is God Who created and controls all these! If you look carefully at the definition of nature, you will see that they are just attributing God’s authority to this invisible non-existent agent."
i'll reply this one with a copy/paste from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato
Don't forget that Socrates dialogues were written by Plato and that in those dialogues he gives his own opinion.
"In several dialogues, Socrates floats the idea that Knowledge is a matter of recollection, and not of learning, observation, or study.[29] He maintains this view somewhat at his own expense, because in many dialogues, Socrates complains of his forgetfulness. Socrates is often found arguing that knowledge is not empirical, and that it comes from divine insight. He is quite consistent in believing in the immortality of the soul, and several dialogues end with long speeches imagining the afterlife. More than one dialogue contrasts knowledge and opinion, perception and reality, nature and custom, and body and soul. The only contrast to this is his Parmenides."
Now, lunch break, will continue afterwards.
"
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
I seriously feel that you really need to learn about Islam and Prophet's biography to understand properly. My humble request to you to visit FANAR or visit the website of www.qfanar.com or islamonline.net to improve your knowledge about Islam.
One need to learn, seek to educate themselve and investigate the history of Quran and Islam since its inception and obviously from correct sources. I am quite sure if you are determined, will definitely acheive what you sought and will identify your CREATOR.
Human brains have limitation to understand God; if you don't believe then why He need to send the messengers and revealations Holy books explaining HIMSELF through his several CREATIONS! Open your think tank my friend.
lol, i was out last 4 days, will reply later :)
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
I thik platao left. He did not answer any of my questions....
today holiday! so i would like to finish all of your encounter points.
“The bad/irresponsable souls will take longer to be turned in angels, just like students at school.”
So, according to you, these souls return back to their bodies and have to ‘re-live’ their lives?
Where are these so called angels? And What is there purpose? I am still waiting for the proof that they exist.
“To give you a clear definition need you to tell me what's your definition for an angel, as a deist i would call them God helpers, probably the forces of Nature.”
As a Muslim, and a rationalize human being, I only believe in angels because they are written in the Qur’aan, which I believe is God’s words. If God tells me there are angels, I believe Him, even though I have not seen them, herd them or can even imagine them.
We believe angels have different functions. They are a creation of God, but have no freewill. They do as God commands and some bring revelation down (like angel Gabriel), some are gatekeepers of hell, some record good deeds, some are constantly in worship, etc. Believing in Angels is a pillar of our faith and we have a great amount of detail on them.
If you wish to know more about what we believe, please refer to ‘Knowing Angels’ by Dr. Muhammad al – Jibaly. If you require a copy, we can get one sent to you for free
Again with ‘nature’??
“Hmmm, you like fairy tails...guess that's why you belive in a private god that behaves like any human.”
? I don’t like fairy tales, and I don’t believe in a ‘private God’
And God does not behave like His creation.
This is a Soorah in the Qur’aan that describes God the best:
“Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allâh, (the) One.”
"Allâh-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).”
"He begets not, nor was He begotten;”
"And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."
(Soorah Al-Ikhlas 112:1 - 4)
“Have you noticed that you are trying to justify your myths with my words that have an opposite sense to what you mean?”
No, that’s not what I am doing. I spoke to you as someone who had a sense of reasoning. You claim you use your mind to comprehend everything, thus I tried to expose to you your flaws in your belief system. But clearly I was wrong, because you are unable to answer the questions and you instead try to justify your ignorance of your belief by attacking me? This is childish!
Wake up! Your belief is made of bits and pieces of other dogmas! You deny revelation, yet you believe is souls? Why because you spoke to one? What if I say I believe in revelation because I read some of this revelation? That argument is weak.
Summary:
1. You believe in God, but don’t know anything of Him. You don’t know where He is, Why He created this world, etc etc
2. You believe in Angels, but have absolutely no knowledge of them. You claim you use reasoning, yet you believe in these insivible creatures found in scriptural books!
3. You claim you believe in the Soul, yet this is illigocal. Where is exactly is your soul? And why can we see it?
4. You believe in Death, but don’t really know what happens after. To say souls turns into angels is as logical as a hindu saying souls are reincarnated!
5. You believe that pain and suffering has a purpose. Even though this is a concept only found in Religion. Most people, who use reasoning, never comprehend pain and suffering and often lose their religion.
6. You believe in Nature. The reality is that Nature is something people use to explain phenomenon they don’t understand. For example, they associate nature with weather, earth, animals, plants, etc when in reality, It is God Who created and controls all these! If you look carefully at the definition of nature, you will see that they are just attributing God’s authority to this invisible non-existent agent.
“As a Deist i have never seen God and any Deist will tell you that we don't need to see him to know that he exists.
If you are so interested on obtaining those answers, please read : http://www.spiritwri...
Then, you can ask me what doubts you still have.”
That site didn’t work.
How do you know God exists? How do you know All this isn’t an experiment by some Aliens? – as some people actually believe!!
"Now, it's my turn to make some questions
1.Is God perfect?
2.Is He omnipotent?
3.Is He omnipresent?
4.What are the differences between a perfect and an imperfect being
5.Who created God?"
note! i am answering each and every Qs you asked, my reasoning is.. my book is the word of GOD, simple!
i am not giving man made website links to prove my claim!
but i am giving divine verses as reference what GOD answered your worthy reasoning Qs already in HIS Book.
1. Is God Perfect: To Only God Belong Perfection
“And you will see the mountains and think them solid, but they shall pass away as the passing away of the clouds. The Work of Allâh, Who perfected all things, verily! He is Well-Acquainted with what you do.” (An-Naml 27:88)
2. Is He Omnipotent: Meaning is He All-Powerful : Indeed He is
“Allâh is He Who created you in (a state of) weakness, then gave you strength after weakness, then after strength gave (you) weakness and grey hair. He creates what He wills. And it is He Who is the AllKnowing, the Allpowerful (i.e. Able to do all things).” (Ar-Rum 30:54)
3. Yes, He is Omnipresent, but not His selfwise.Because if He is omnipresent in selfwise there should be billions of gods.
But when a human declares that he/she is a muslim says that there is none worthy of worship but Allah alone. and
“Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allâh, (the) One.” (Chapter112 verse 1)
So He is omnipresent in the sense of knowledge wise.
"To Allah belong the east and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing."(chapter 2, verse 115)
We Believe God is Above and Beyond His creation. But that’s not to say He is in a specific location. Because location came into existence with creation. So, in summary, God is where He was before He created everything.
4.Perfect being: God
Imperfect being: Human
(simple difference!)
5.This question is similar to someone saying their brother is pregnant and you ask what the baby’s gender is?!!
God is Uncreated. He has No beginning and No end, thus to ask Who created the Uncreated is like asking what the gender of a baby born from a pregnant man!
By the way, we believe this question is Satanic, as related in the authentic Hadeeth.
actually its an absurd question.
God is The Unique,The One,The Alone!
There is absolutely nothing like Him in the whole Universe.Everything was created, except GOD; and everything will perish, except GOD! There is no creator,but He,and He creates whatever He pleases!
Holy Quran Chapter 57 Surah Hadid verses 2-3: To GOD belongs the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth. He Alone grants life and causes death, and has power over everything. He is the First, as well as the Last! The Manifest, as well as the Hidden! And He has knowledge of everything.
Holy Quran Chapter 112 Surah Ikhlaas verses 3-4: Neither has He an offspring, nor is He is the offspring of anyone! And none is equal with Him in rank.
Everything in existence is created, and everything that is created has to start somewhere. In light of the Holy Quran, we are commanded to believe that GOD is Creator and Originator of everything in the heavens and the earth and everything that is in between. There was nothing before Him; He was the First and He created everything in existence!
Holy Quran Chapter 42 Surah Ash-Shura verse 11:There is Absolutely nothing like Him (GOD) in the whole Universe! He is the All-Hearing, The All-Seeing! To Him Alone belong the keys of the treasures of the heavens and the earth!
Feel free to ask anything you wish, i hope you ask for your knowledge and not to offend.
Did Plato believe on Jinn???
assalam alaikum brother plato,
today, i will try my best to touch all points, if anything missed, i will cover it soon insha allah,
yes brother nice too nice, a little bit confusing.
brother plato let me start with your claim "contradictions" in revealtions, naudubillah!
"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy." (chapter 4, verse 82)
So point out ONE,(Only one) contradiction in the Quruan..
Allah challenged the mankind in His revelation
"Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah.- If ye speak the truth!" (chapter 11, verse 13)
Again Allah makes the challenge 'simpler'
"Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"(chapter 10, verse 38)
The shortest Sura(chapter) in the Quruan is sura 103, contains only 3 verses.
1 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
2 Verily Man is in loss,
3 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
So this is a challenge to you and all the people who denied Allah revelation ( Quruan)
But if you mean that contradictions are in Torah and Gospel (collectively known as Bible), ok I agree that. But when Allah revealed this books to the Moses and Jesus (peace be upon both of them),there is no contradictions in that books.
After,this Messengers passed away the people changed this books according to their wishes.
“Exactly, Nature is all that surround us, some of us, Deists, belive that Nature is God, i belive that nature is at least part of God.”
What do you mean Nature is all around us? What do YOU believe nature is, who created it and its purpose. And Why is the All Powerful God in need of something like nature? And Where is God?
“Of course i have, that's why i become a medium, only stopped because at a certain time the messages were coming directly to my mind even before the glass would finish the sentence.”
When you say medium…you mean….you communicate with the dead? Or you connect the dead with the living? Explain yourself, it seems like this is treading on to the Sci-Fi channel!
“Where did i say that i don't belive his laws? As a Deist, i belive that everything obey's to God's laws and that's why i don't belive in Satan or evil or hell."
You denied the revelations as you do not accept the Laws sanctioned in them.
You don’t believe in Evil? So hitler is what? A good guy!
As for everything obey’s God law. That’s rubbish. So people who don’t believe in God, obey God’s law?
“Let me make you a proposal, i use the reasoning and you use your faith to fly it ;)
Mankind isn't a plane. Mankind has already shown that they can leurn just observing nature, and using the example you gave concerning piloting a plane, where is it written in any of the revelation books how to fly a plane? Weren't the Wright brothers the 1st to pilot a plane?"
I wouldn’t use ‘faith’ to fly the plane. I believe God has given me the ability to learn and thus eventually fly. However, even then, I put my trust in Him as I only have so much control over the plane!
Your question regarding the wright brs is very odd. It seems like you are looking for arguments without thinking first.
Ok, God does inform us that HE was the one who granted us knowledge and taught us how to read, write, etc Do you think the wright brs used reasoning to build the plane? If so, can you do the same? Ofcourse not! You yourself said you lack knowledge of physics! So my point is that God inspired them and showed them how to build the plane.
Infact, MANY inventions were accidents!
Lets see you utilize your reasoning now, we have flys that simply take of vertically, but our planes don’t, can you used your observance of nature to see why?
Why do we teach children how to cross the road? Shouldnt they know by reasoning that you should see if a car is passing before running onto the road?
“You are confused, probably due to the huge size of the replies, it's easyer to belive in 1 God that set all the laws of nature than in a God that contradicts himself, that says that he's perfect but shows demandings of a dictator? Please don't be offended with this words of mine, not attacking faith just stating my point.”
Demandings of a dictator? When God says to feed the poor, help the need and be good to your wives, He is being a dictator?
Just as you teach your son NOT to play with fire , or he will get burnt; God teaches us (His creation!) to be good humans and how to do so, or we will cause destruction to ourself. This is becoming evident. We have Gay marriages now, transsexuals roaming around and even legalized prostitution and Incest in some countries! All in the name of ‘consenting adults!’
Crime rates are soaring, the rich get richer, etc. This is what human reasoning leads to. When GOD's LAWS ruled, the world was at peace.
And please don’t say crusaders were Christians as their true intentions have been exposed. They used their greedy reasoning to try make a path for trade of spices from the east, but didn’t want to go through the arab world/traders.
“Already replied this question when i spoke about the spirit evolution until it becomes an angel and helps God with all his matters.I don't make hard questions because could be considered an attack to someone's faith.”
Hard questions, you mean offensive questions. Please ask what you wish
You never prooved that the Angels or even Souls exists. Show me you’re your reasoning came up with that!
“I don't doubt that things maybe manipulated or organized by God, i want people to point me out in their Holly books where does God teach man to light fires, to build engines, to make reference to other planets, etc...”
If you want scientific miracles, then refer to the Qur’aan. The Qur’aan is not a book of science but of guidance.
It’s easy for God to put ALL inventions into book, but you know how many books that would take?
Priests? Well, as i stated previouslly, i'm converting to Islam but not because of reasoning but because of love, and according to the Sheik, beliving in God is already a huge step to be muslim and after reading some parts of the Qur'an i found out that God wants you to racionalize and not following a book blindly.”
The Qur’aan is a book of guidance. God has given it to men of REAL reasoning to follow. He never forced us to follow it or said we should follow it blindly. However, if we do not understand something, we may still follow it because our tiny minds cannot comprehend the wisdom and knowledge of God and why He revealed what He revealed. The below 5 verses are my humble wedding gift for you and your bride, barakallahu feekum!.
“…But those who disbelieve invent lies against Allâh, and most of them have no understanding.” (Al-Ma'idah 5:103)
“Indeed in their stories, there is a lesson for men of understanding. It (the Qur'an) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of the Allâh's existing Books and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a Mercy for the people who believe.” (Yusuf 12:111)
“Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you (O Muhammad SAW) from your Lord is the truth be like him who is blind? But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed.” (Ra'd 13:19)
“Is it not a guidance for them (to know) how many generations We have destroyed before them, in whose dwellings they walk? Verily, in this are signs indeed for men of understanding.” (Ta-Ha 20:128)
“(This is) a Book (the Qur'ân) which We have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may ponder over its Verses, and that men of understanding may remember.” (Sad 38:29)
“Well, it's not only the Qur'an, the Bible and the Torah have references to science too, not sure if more or less than the Qur'an, still have to fully read it to see how many references it makes to science.”
Yes, but many of the Biblical ones are wrong. Do you not know of Galileo and how the Christians locked him up???
“As a spiritist, how could i not belive in a soul if during the mediunic session i used to talk to souls/spirits. Regarding Jesus, his spirit/soul is alive but his body...is ashes by now.”
brother nice too nice, this may help to understand what is the reason of plato became a mediator who speaks with spirits.
How do you know those were souls your were speaking to? So you use those séance boards?
Amazing, for someone who uses reasoning, you have been fooled by some small trickery. And you mocked Moses!
You need to prove using your reasoning that spirits and angels exist.
I can explain any supernatural phenomena you experience with your ‘magic board’
You were fooled by what is called a Jinn. And yes, they have knowledge of what people do and thus it can pretend to be someone.
Jinn have also been mentioned in the Qur’aan and other scriptures.
As for your séance. Let me explain what happens: Everyone is accompanied with a jinn and angel. The jinn is the one that tells you (by whisperings) to do bad stuff. Anyway, when you die, your jinn doesn’t necessarily die too. He then goes to these fortunetellers and ‘mediums’. So when you think you are speaking to someone deceased, you are actually talking to his jinn, who is pretending to be him.
“"Yes He could but he didn't ;)”
But why? If God was just, why not make everyone the same colour? What could he benefit from making different colours?
brother plato, in the last post u have asked me a detailed answer for some Qs, but today the time is being tight, sure insha allah i will answer tomarrow. please be patient and wait.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
God bless u brother plato.
How are you.? how you all doing.? at the begining many members asked Me that what are you expecting frm this thread.! what do you want from this thread bla bla bla...
ALhmdulllillaaaaaaaah am very glad, tat now 3 peoples are learning ISLAM. Hope they too will one of us as a true slave of Almighty allah and the follower of prophet muhammed (Peace be upon him). insha allaaaaaaaH. May allah grace & guide all of us.....
Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
So Platao, as per you, Angels are God helpers and your God is nature, then what is Angels? Can you differentiate Your Nature God and your angels? So, as per your above post, all souls will be turned to angels- that means to forces of nature.......wow..interesting.
who wrote the non revelation book? how I know it is from spirit? what is the evidence for that????
SisteFatima: Welcome back :)
"But according to you, the good people become angels and the bad people…..they don’t become angels?"
The bad/irresponsable souls will take longer to be turned in angels, just like students at school.
"First of all, can you prove to me angels exist. I have never seen an angel, spoken to one or even touched one.
but we belive in angels only because our revealtion holy book said so, we belive this book is from GOD,simply this reasoning enough for us.
There is no scientific proof that they exist or any human reasoning why they ever would need to exist, so how did you even consider that they exist."
To give you a clear definition need you to tell me what's your definition for an angel, as a deist i would call
them God helpers, probably the forces of Nature.
Hmmm, you like fairy tails...guess that's why you belive in a private god that behaves like any human.
Have you noticed that you are trying to justify your myths with my words that have an opposite sense to what you mean?
As a Deist i have never seen God and any Deist will tell you that we don't need to see him to know that he exists.
If you are so interested on obtaining those answers, please read : http://www.spiritwritings.com/kardecspiritstoc.html
Then, you can ask me what doubts you still have.
Now, it's my turn to make some questions Is God perfect? Is He omnipotent? Is He omnipresent?
What are the differences between a perfect and an imperfect being?
Who created God?
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Nice to Nice: You ignore that souls are eternal? Why would i ask them that if it was already replied and written on a non revelation book, need a link for the Book of Spirits by Allan Kardec?
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Sister Fatima, nice to see ur answers. I also feels that Platao is not a true diest, nor a true believer. He is totally confused. Now we can see that he is believing on Angels. But I don't know how he started on believing angels without seeing them. Is it not against the so called reasoning theory.
And how about the rules of man? Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules? Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
If God is so Sublime, Why would he create a machine and not give us the manual? I.e. why create us..our bodies.. or minds...and not give us some sort of guidance?
You tell me, why did God allow the tsunami to kill so many people? Islaam gives us explanation for these calamities. How can God not interfere? Tell me, why does your heart beat? Do you tell it to? Who do you think controls that? Who do you think removes and add your soul into your body?!
why is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealations???
insha allah, i will answer your last post soon, and about "all scientists are not diest but belivers" means they belived in certain revealation books. They never denied holy books besides beliving in God and his messengers.
yes brother timtan, i am copy pasting the words of brother plato in italic font, LOLZ.
"i know the answer, so i just limit myself to make you same questions to make you think because you'll find the reply on your own mind.Because i don't belive in Paradise/Hell, or even in evil, i don't see why shouldn't both their physicall bodies rest in same place, Sister Teresa spirit will be nearer from becoming on of God's angels that Hitler's spirit. Just like when you go to school, you study to get your diploma right? See the spirits life just like they were at a school whoose main purpose is turning them into angels, to pass to the next level you must reborn with a body that will try to deceive you but the stronger is the soul the harder will be the proofs it has to pass by."
Wow, so much for human reasoning! What you have mentioned sound like a fairy tale! When we finish school, does life end? No we continue our studies and MOVE ON to the next phase.
But according to you, the good people become angels and the bad people…..they don’t become angels?
Really? Is this your theory?
First of all, can you prove to me angels exist. I have never seen an angel, spoken to one or even touched one.
but we belive in angels only because our revealtion holy book said so, we belive this book is from GOD,simply this reasoning enough for us.
There is no scientific proof that they exist or any human reasoning why they ever would need to exist, so how did you even consider that they exist.
Is this perhaps something you watched on tv?...
So tell me, it seems like you believe in re-incarnation?!
"Who do you want to reply to it, my body or my soul?
My body will say that God isn't just for allowing that man to have a "good and happy life" and would want to avenge the death, but my soul says that everything happens for a reason, if God decided to call my son's to His presence than it may mean that my son's soul is 1 step closer to God, is it that bad?”
Again, another fairy tale
How do you know the soul exists? It makes no sense that it does nor can we prove it scientifically or with reasoning.
Second, everything happens for a reason? Really? And how did you come up with that? How could you possibly have reasoned that out? So you would sit next to your son’s death bed and tell him ‘everything happens for a reason?’
Again, this is NOT from human reasoning but from religion, which you must have learnt from your TV!
Closer to God? Tell me, What does your God look like? Where is He? Who is He? And Why would He create things then kill them?! if u use any revealtion books to answer this Qs clearly proves that u r not a diest, but a muslim more or less!, masha allah.
“Regarding situation in Africa, my body doesn't accept such situation, but my soul says that those souls suffering all that will be 1 step closer to God if they manage to pass the test. Justice in animals: I may sound cruel with what i'm about to say but that's how an impartial being would see the things, 1 ant's life is as important as a human's or a plant's life, to God, all life is important, for him to kill thousands of ants or thousands of humans has the same value, he wont punish none because it's each being "nature".”
Test? Wow? Where did you get that from? So to you, seeing someone suffering is a test? This is your human reasoning? Test for……
Again with this ‘nature’? Who is this ‘nature’?
“I didn't created the universe, and as you say God has infinite knowledge so why he asks humans to work on His name?”
He doesn’t ask people to do things in His name, He tells people to do the things they do whilst in His remembrance. So, for example, Before we eat, we start in the name of God. This is part of our worship and is our purpose of creation.
"As i stated previouslly, Nature is our teacher, remember that Man leurned to use fire without any other teacher beside the physic laws of Nature, can't be too specific because i don't know much about physics."
Again, you haven’t proved that ‘nature’ exists or even what it is.
And again, you watch too many cartoons. Do you actually believe in things like cavemen? I hope you know that Evolution is baseless and any paints they made of so called cavemen were fictional. Perhaps they thought their older generations looked like apes, but we believe we were always humans, as science tells us.
And as for fire, its very likely God taught adam how to make fire. It’s very easy and doesn’t take a genius.
“Regarding Moses, don't you feal that a God that can't release His own people by himself but that imposes to that People to obey his laws sounds fake? Once again these kind of contradictions are the ones that make us racionalize and say that the people who wrote the "revelation" books have misunderstood some messages from God's messengers.”
No, I don’t feel this because its nonsense.
Because you have no knowledge of what happened, you have jumped to foolish assumptions.
God sent MANY messengers to Jews and told them to be firm in their belief. But they disobeyed him and He let them get punished. THEN they begged him for help and they ALWAYS asked for Messengers as they wanted leaders! (refer to the story of David and Goliath!)
Even with moses, they jews actually built and started worshipping a golden calf!! And even with all the common sense, they still were stupid enough to do that! Even when God saved them, they turned their worship to created things.
God has always imposed His laws on us. Is gravity not one of His laws?! and is it not His right to do so? Are we here to say what God can and cannot do?
“Who said we don't live forever? Only our bodies die not our soul. We spend some years in this world as a test for our soul to continue evolving to become one of God's angels.”
Even the word ‘angel’ where did you get it from?? I wont repeat my argument above. (it again an evident that u r not a diest like coelacanth brother who perfeclty belive in reasoning but u r more or less a true muslim, masha allah!
“Exactly, you are reasoning now, remember that you said that "Prophet Jesus, Jews at that time had great knowledge in Medicine. They cured broken bones and the people were amazed by this. Thus, jesus's miracles revolved around healing, eg healing the blind, the leaper, etc.", how many medics have ressurected the death? Lazarus was a friend of Jesus of Nazareth”
Again, Lazarus’s resurrection is in the bible and we don’t necessarily believe it. Our scholars have said that infact the jews tested Jesus and said we aren’t impressed with anyone who died now and you resurrected him. They wanted someone who died some time back and then Jesus resurrected one of the son’s of Noah!!
Regardless, it’s not WHO jesus resurrects, but the fact he did so, by God’s will. It was just to prove he was not an imposter and was a real messenger.
“We could say that Nature is God. What some people think doesn't mean they were correct all the time, just like people always remember about the holly books being so old and needing to be updated, the same has happened with Human knowledge, somethings that were true some years ago are now lies after new discoveries by science.”
The Qur’aan doesn’t need updating, its countless consistant miracles justifies it and countless testimonials including it is perfectly preserved without attacking human hands and gaurded its authenticty and divinity. I have no authority to claim updation for another revealation books like bible. Because it edited and updated in nicea council already and have so many versions right now, so we can find so many scientific errors in it. You ‘could’ say nature is God? Is it because you don’t actually know?
“Remember that only in the 20th century that kind of mentalitty started to change, but previouslly it were the religious scolars that had those positions, remember that arabs were already slaving people from black africa even before europeans arrive to Africa and they had the same idea that black people were inferior to them, finnally that mentality is almost over and people today don't see them as a different race, after all we are all humans.”
Again, you watch too much TV!
Arabs would take ALL kinds of slaves. Slaves from black races, white races, etc. At the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) there were such slaves and they were freed eventually! Infact, one of these slaves, Salman, was a Persian! Who had a massive empire at that time. Anyway, there is no connection between Arabs and Muslims. Islaam is universal and the laws of Islaam were set in place in such a way to destroy slavery. First by giving them rights and respect, then freeing them in ways that involved doing good deeds. This had such an impact that many slaves eventually became scholars and some, even when freed, stayed with their Muslim masters (although not as slaves).
Islaam has a strict policy against racism. God is very clear about this in the Qur’aan and this was revealed BEFORE Darwin and co. Have you not seen the Muslims standing in line in prayer? or the Pilgrimage? This is when Malcom X really saw brotherhood!
“The question you refer, as you may have not noticed, i refered a muslim familly belonging to Al-Qaeda (Bin Laden organization) and not a regular muslim family, guess this will help you to understand were you misinterpreted what i said, if needed, read again,”
If this is not a ‘regular’ muslim family, then why refer to it? You dug yourself a grave and now you’re trying to come out?
“So, shouldn't i feal offended when you call such monster a Deist? Are the Zionists deists or jews? Bush is christan, not a deist.”
Why would you feel offended? Ok, perhaps I will explain in more detail: Bush believed (using his tiny reasoning) that it was right to invade Iraq. Everyone said no! and there is no scriptural backing for his actions or any religious. Thus he acted on his small intellect and now regrets it.
Even if they are not diest by name, their methodolygy (of using the human ‘reasoning’) is there and hence I used it as an example.
It seems like this conversation will never end. You are not a true diest. It’s not logical for someone to believe in things like angels, souls, nature, etc.
Dont you see, even when you think you are using your own reasoning, you have still come back to what is mentioned in religion only (i.e. things like angels and souls). I am calling you a muslim because a christian will not belive in oneness of GOD, but belive in trinity and jesus as God,&God's son,(naudubillah!) also they do not recognize prophet muhammed even he is in their holy Book but idol worship the statues of their messenger, apostles and mother marry.
and Allaah knows best that you are a true muslim who belives in the oneness of ALLAH and HIS messengers Jesus, Moses, Muhammed.
so its the time to say your bride, "honey call me Ayman right now, because i am already converted.!", masha allah.
May ALLAH ALMIGHTY Bless You and your family, portugal.
aameen
Allah akbar
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
WHAT ARE ALL YOU BANTERING HERE ABOUT.
A PERSON TOPIC WHO DOESNT HAVE A FAITH IN HIMSELF OR HIS RELIGION.
"in Rome, do what the Romans do!"
Make Love... Not War!
Platao, only Jesus soul is alive or any other soul also alive? Could you check with the spirit/soul whom you can speak about their whereabouts?
What Muslim believes is Isa (AS) is not died and still alive, whereabout is only known to Almighty.....
lol timtan
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Sisterfatime: Before starting, hope you had a nice weekend :)
"You speak of God and the devil and death, yet your knowledge of these are limited to what you learnt from nature or ‘television’."
Exactly, Nature is all that surround us, some of us, Deists, belive that Nature is God, i belive that nature is at least part of God.
"Havent you ever wondered why we are here? What things happen around us? And how?"
Of course i have, that's why i become a medium, only stopped because at a certain time the messages were coming directly to my mind even before the glass would finish the sentence.
"Everything has laws and we follow them. Our countries have laws, we follow them; animals have laws, they follow them; even the planets have laws and they follow them. Have you ever fought with gravity? Why don’t you use your intellect and prove that we don’t need gravity?
In America, after the hurricane hit, look at how man turned into animal because of the lack of the law!
Everyday, like it or not, you and your body are goverened by the laws of God. The only difference is, the spiritual law (i.e Law related to our soul) is something that we have a choice in following. So you have bleed when you get cut, you have to fall when you jump, etc but you don’t have to believe in God or worship you….and this …is the Ultimate Test. What will you do with your free choice?
You find it absurd that anyone could doubt God’s creation…we find it even more absurd that you believe in God, but not His laws."
Where did i say that i don't belive his laws? As a Deist, i belive that everything obey's to God's laws and that's why i don't belive in Satan or evil or hell :)
"Do me a favour, go sit in an airplane and use your 'reasoning' to fly it. See how far you can get!! And dont say you need lessons! because if you believe you need a few lessons just to fly a tiny plane, then what about mankind! Would they not need a guide to live rightous lives?"
Let me make you a proposal, i use the reasoning and you use your faith to fly it ;)
Mankind isn't a plane. Mankind has already shown that they can leurn just observing nature, and using the example you gave concerning piloting a plane, where is it written in any of the revelation books how to fly a plane? Weren't the Wright brothers the 1st to pilot a plane?
""Why do you believe in God? Isnt in more convinient to not believe in Him? because you never see him!Then to say He exists but Does nothing!!as brother malabari asked "What is our destination? Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination? Is it hard to believe God can communicate with His creation through messengers and revealations? Considering He created every Atom / quark, etc (!) how difficult is..speach!"
You are confused, probably due to the huge size of the replies, it's easyer to belive in 1 God that set all the laws of nature than in a God that contradicts himself, that says that he's perfect but shows demandings of a dictator? Please don't be offended with this words of mine, not attacking faith just stating my point.
"You claim you follow reason. Then why dont you ask the Hard questions? Why are we here? Why did God create us?"
Already replied this question when i spoke about the spirit evolution until it becomes an angel and helps God with all his matters.
I don't make hard questions because could be considered an attack to someone's faith.
"who said the discoveries from cave man to moon fly are not manipulated or organized by GOD, all of our scientists are not diests, most of them are believers, and what about the challenge of Qur'an in science???
why scientists, professors, priests and women are embracing islam day to day, are they fools to accept a faith without any reasoning???"
I don't doubt that things maybe manipulated or organized by God, i want people to point me out in their Holly books where does God teach man to light fires, to build engines, to make reference to other planets, etc...
"why scientists, professors, priests and women are embracing islam day to day, are they fools to accept a faith without any reasoning???"
Priests? Well, as i stated previouslly, i'm converting to Islam but not because of reasoning but because of love, He gave me a beautifull gift in the form of a wonderful muslim girl, and according to the Sheik, beliving in God is already a huge step to be muslim and after reading some parts of the Qur'an i found out that God wants you to racionalize and not following a book blindly.
I think you are confusing Deism with Atheism.
What do you mean with "all our scientists are not diests, most of them are believers"? You mean belivers in God or Muslim?
"and what about the challenge of Qur'an in science???"
Well, it's not only the Qur'an, the Bible and the Torah have references to science too, not sure if more or less than the Qur'an, still have to fully read it to see how many references it makes to science.
"If you don’t die, then what happens when the soul leave the body? Do you even believe in the soul?
Death has its place, but clearly you don’t know what it is.
Who said Jesus is dead?"
As a spiritist, how could i not belive in a soul if during the mediunic session i used to talk to souls/spirits. Regarding Jesus, his spirit/soul is alive but his body...is ashes by now.
"This is common sense. But its something that doesn’t have to happen. God could have easily made everyone with skin colour that is the same and wouldn’t change.!"
Yes He could but he didn't ;)
Hope you have fun, Allah akbar
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
i am pasting the untouched points again.
You speak of God and the devil and death, yet your knowledge of these are limited to what you learnt from nature or ‘television’.
Havent you ever wondered why we are here? What things happen around us? And how?
Everything has laws and we follow them. Our countries have laws, we follow them; animals have laws, they follow them; even the planets have laws and they follow them. Have you ever fought with gravity? Why don’t you use your intellect and prove that we don’t need gravity?
In America, after the hurricane hit, look at how man turned into animal because of the lack of the law!
Everyday, like it or not, you and your body are goverened by the laws of God. The only difference is, the spiritual law (i.e Law related to our soul) is something that we have a choice in following. So you have bleed when you get cut, you have to fall when you jump, etc but you don’t have to believe in God or worship you….and this …is the Ultimate Test. What will you do with your free choice?
You find it absurd that anyone could doubt God’s creation…we find it even more absurd that you believe in God, but not His laws.
Do me a favour, go sit in an airplane and use your 'reasoning' to fly it. See how far you can get!! And dont say you need lessons! because if you believe you need a few lessons just to fly a tiny plane, then what about mankind! Would they not need a guide to live rightous lives?
It's ironic. You claim to be someone who uses reasoning, yet you are so blinded to the obvious fact that Islaam is the logical choice and that It's laws have great reasoning behind them!!
"Why do you believe in God? Isnt in more convinient to not believe in Him? because you never see him!Then to say He exists but Does nothing!!as brother malabari asked "What is our destination? Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination? Is it hard to believe God can communicate with His creation through messengers and revealations? Considering He created every Atom / quark, etc (!) how difficult is..speach!
You claim you follow reason. Then why dont you ask the Hard questions? Why are we here? Why did God create us?
And how about the rules of man? Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules? Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
who said the discoveries from cave man to moon fly are not manipulated or organized by GOD, all of our scientists are not diests, most of them are believers, and what about the challenge of Qur'an in science???
why scientists, professors, priests and women are embracing islam day to day, are they fools to accept a faith without any reasoning???
If God is so Sublime, Why would he create a machine and not give us the manual? I.e. why create us..our bodies.. or minds...and not give us some sort of guidance?
You tell me, why did God allow the tsunami to kill so many people? Islaam gives us explanation for these calamities. How can God not interfere? Tell me, why does your heart beat? Do you tell it to? Who do you think controls that? Who do you think removes and add your soul into your body?!
“You don't die, only your body is eaten by the worms. Is Death a punishement or just part of life? Why did Jesus die so young?”
If you don’t die, then what happens when the soul leave the body? Do you even believe in the soul?
Death has its place, but clearly you don’t know what it is.
Who said Jesus is dead?
“As far as i know it was the climateric conditions that changed the colours of the Human race, have you noticed how Nordic people look so white and people living in Equator (not the country) are so dark?”
This is common sense. But its something that doesn’t have to happen. God could have easily made everyone with skin colour that is the same and wouldn’t change.!
brother, c u after 22 dec insha allah
why is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealations???
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
ayman
so u and wife wishing to convert, masha allah!
ok brother, wasalaam
assalamu alaikum brother plato
sorry for the delay, i am out of station.(a little busy in travelling so can't accompany laptop)
and the discussion goes beyond migrain, and i will replay tomorrow evening if i can access this page through handset insha allah.
let me to touch some few, both of the prev comments i have answered, perhaps they misunderstood, that's why frozen said so, u too supported my point(dear frozen brother, i will send small posts insha allah).
and about qureshi brother, we have an online discussion now going on through private messages, so he might be angry with me, but see he is in my buddy list!
so my image is stern and firm masha allah. and about your image, i said it because of your rude attack i got the first time from u, that's why i respond so because i never expected it.and your profile seems a good muslim alhamdulillah.
lol frozen tear, sorry so big posts, sisterfatima is right, she and coelecanth just joined to this discussion, i still think it's a friendly discussion but some times people have to stop and think without loosing temper :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
sisterfatima: Nice to see you have calmed down.
"remember whenever u skip my Qs, more and more Qs coming to answer!"
Lol, no one is skiping anyone's questions, i know the answer, so i just limit myself to make you same questions to make you think because you'll find the reply on your own mind.
Because i don't belive in Paradise/Hell, or even in evil, i don't see why shouldn't both their physicall bodies rest in same place, Sister Teresa spirit will be nearer from becoming on of God's angels that Hitler's spirit. Just like when you go to school, you study to get your diploma right? See the spirits life just like they were at a school whoose main purpose is turning them into angels, to pass to the next level you must reborn with a body that will try to deceive you but the stronger is the soul the harder will be the proofs it has to pass by.
"This hasn’t answered the Question. Let me give you a more serious example. Let’s say you have a son, and he is murdered by a man and then this man has a long, happy life and then finally dies and he is buried next to your son. Would you consider God to be Just?
What about famine and poverty? Have you see the children of Africa? They are so hungry that they have to drink urine of animals as water! Is this Justice? How do you explain this?
And Justice in animals? If I step on an ant? What will happen? How is God just by giving be strength over something so helpless?"
Who do you want to reply to it, my body or my soul?
My body will say that God isn't just for allowing that man to have a "good and happy life" and would want to avenge the death, but my soul says that everything happens for a reason, if God decided to call my son's to His presence than it may mean that my son's soul is 1 step closer to God, is it that bad?
Regarding situation in Africa, my body doesn't accept such situation, but my soul says that those souls suffering all that will be 1 step closer to God if they manage to pass the test.
Justice in animals: I may sound cruel with what i'm about to say but that's how an impartial being would see the things, 1 ant's life is as important as a human's or a plant's life, to God, all life is important, for him to kill thousands of ants or thousands of humans has the same value, he wont punish none because it's each being "nature".
"What does the ‘great flood’ and ‘universe’ have to do with revelation? Did you start the flood? Did you create the universe, if not, then why compare you small brain to the infinite knowledge of God?"
I didn't created the universe, and as you say God has infinite knowledge so why he asks humans to work on His name?
"Again I give the example of learning to drive a car. Just because you see a car, does it mean you know everything about it? Yes it’s obvious that someone created the Car, but don’t we need to read the instructions to know how to drive? Better yet, don’t we get someone else to teach us along side reading the instructions!!!"
As i stated previouslly, Nature is our teacher, remember that Man leurned to use fire without any other teacher beside the physic laws of Nature, can't be too specific because i don't know much about physics.
Regarding Moses, don't you feal that a God that can't release His own people by himself but that imposes to that People to obey his laws sounds fake? Once again these kind of contradictions are the ones that make us racionalize and say that the people who wrote the "revelation" books have misunderstood some messages from
God's messengers.
God taught Adam and Adam taught his sons and etc etc.
To die all you need to be is alive? What sort of nonsense is that? Why is death part of life? Why do we not live forever? What is the purpose of spending these few years on this planet??
Who said we don't live forever? Only our bodies die not our soul. We spend some years in this world as a test for our soul to continue evolving to become one of God's angels.
"U said, “Hmmm, what about Lazarus? How sick was he?”
According to the bible, he had died. We don’t know who this Lazarus was, but we do believe Jesus brought the dead back to life, by God’s will. This was a miracle to show he was a prophet of God. Not to impress people that he can bring dead people back."
Exactly, you are reasoning now, remember that you said that "Prophet Jesus, Jews at that time had great knowledge in Medicine. They cured broken bones and the people were amazed by this. Thus, jesus's miracles revolved around healing, eg healing the blind, the leaper, etc.", how many medics have ressurected the death? Lazarus was a friend of Jesus of Nazareth :)
"But who is this ‘Nature’? where did it come from?
Some people, like Darwin, believe its ‘NATARUL’ from white people to be superior to Black. It the survival of the fittest, the process of ‘Natural selection’"
We could say that Nature is God. What some people think doesn't mean they were correct all the time, just like people always remember about the holly books being so old and needing to be updated, the same has happened with Human knowledge, somethings that were true some years ago are now lies after new discoveries by science.
Remember that only in the 20th century that kind of mentalitty started to change, but previouslly it were the religious scolars that had those positions, remember that arabs were already slaving people from black africa even before europeans arrive to Africa and they had the same idea that black people were inferior to them, finnally that mentality is almost over and people today don't see them as a different race, after all we are all humans.
"This is a reply I don’t want to address. Because of this comment, I will no longer reply to your comments. I could have easily have torn apart you believed and handed it back to you in pieces! I only wanted to help you find the truth. In no way have I attacked your belief."
The question you refer, as you may have not noticed, i refered a muslim familly belonging to Al-Qaeda (Bin Laden organization) and not a regular muslim family, guess this will help you to understand were you misinterpreted what i said, if needed, read again, :)
What matters is that some teach hate and others teach love.
"Hitler believed he was saving the world when he was cleansing it of Jews! That was his reasoning?! The Zionists believe Muslims are lower then them, so its find to invade and take their homes in Palestines!
You really wish to trust human reasoning? Bush believed what he did to Iraq was right! He used his 'reasoning' and now look, he is having people through shoes at him! and he himself admitted he made a mistake!"
So, shouldn't i feal offended when you call such monster a Deist? Are the Zionists deists or jews? Bush is christan, not a deist.
REgarding who's image was affected i would say that your image was more affected than mine, as you can see from the 2 previous comments.
lol, i don't wanna go to one of those nuts forum :)
I think it would be better if we could chat directly with each other, so we could be arguing and preventing such big posts, if you have msn messenger, please PM me and i'll add you and give you mine so we can continue our friendly discussion :).
Btw, Ayman is the muslim name choosen by me and my bride when i convert, means lucky ;)
May God bless you sisterfatima, once again thanks for such an interesting discussion :)
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
brother the discussion is not about islam now, but about diesm, its a little compliacted , that's why u feel like that and i have answered apt to Qs of plato bro, he can understand it, but u can't.
here no literally torturing. u can grasp it if u read this 7th page itself!
its invented by platoe brother(last page), and nice too nice, me coelacanth joined.
and about long post, i wish to type once and sent, and qouting others' sentences makes it too long!
that's why i use italic words to describe it!
and i think interfaith dialogue is not a sin!
what is this starting the thread as sisterfatima and ending like platou..
guys please use smaller posts so the people can alteast feel like reading it or else you arrange a seminar and present your thesis.
And sisterfatima I dont think you are adding anything in favour of Islam coz your portrayal of Islam is a bit complicated. This is not the way of preaching as i said in my previous posts. I just want you to know giving information or arguments is something else and literaly torturing someone is different and while talking or arguing you are suppose to maintain those lines.
brother qureshi,
plz dont add my name with malabari, i already said, here a peaceful discussion going on about diesm, if u r tolerent then listen, if u r not interested, no matter that we all are interested! is'nt it plato brother???
brother nice too nice,
its true,I think Platao lost the track of his posts. Thats why contradictory statements coming from him. This is common. If one doesn't have any reference of fundamentals then he will end up in confusion. Now the problem is that whether to accept or deny Messengers, whether to accept heaven and hell or not? Is messenger is spirit? I don't know what is what and where is where???? Total confusion. This is the way one reacts when he is unable to answer questions.... I had asked some simple questions and no diest provided me any answer yet......
“God is always just, or do you mean if God is just on a Human point of view? Don't forget that He created several creatures besides Humans and his justice is equal to all His creations. Saddam Hussein is in same type of Grave as the Kurds resistants? Is God unjust as you perceive?”
still u have not answered my clear Questian, i belive in heaven and hell, so i have no need to answer it,each one is responsible for his own actions.God will credit what we did, if we are good, HE will reward, if we are bad, HE will punish,because he is just and merciful, this is simple reasoning. remember whenever u skip my Qs, more and more Qs coming to answer!
This hasn’t answered the Question. Let me give you a more serious example. Let’s say you have a son, and he is murdered by a man and then this man has a long, happy life and then finally dies and he is buried next to your son. Would you consider God to be Just?
What about famine and poverty? Have you see the children of Africa? They are so hungry that they have to drink urine of animals as water! Is this Justice? How do you explain this?
And Justice in animals? If I step on an ant? What will happen? How is God just by giving be strength over something so helpless?
“Dear Sister fatima, Remember the Big Flood? Remember who created the Universe? Do you truelly think that God needs to make revelations when he has created us with a brain that allows us to racionalize and be aware that he exists?
Regarding Moses, as far as i know from documentaries seen in the television, Moses was an assassin that was "selected" by God to free His people from the hands of the Egyptians because "God hadn't enough power to do it himself " ( not attacking any faith but just being ironic ) so, God decided to send some angels on a pious mission to kill every first born of the Egyptian citizans, than, when the army followed the people on the run, He allowed Moses to Kill the Egyptian army, that was only following their Pharaoh orders, than, as a way to thank their efforts God made the Choosen people to walk in the desert during 40 years."
How did i do with my reasoning so far?”
I don’t know which magical version you have read or seen. There is a reason why we don’t take TV as a source of info! Honestly, do you believe everything you hear? Surely someone with a mind to reason will see the foolishness in this?
What does the ‘great flood’ and ‘universe’ have to do with revelation? Did you start the flood? Did you create the universe, if not, then why compare you small brain to the infinite knowledge of God?
And who said the purpose of revelation is to prove God exists? In fact, God hardly addresses this in the Qur’aan as only a select few, how truly need help, can recognize that they are in a creation created by a Creator!
Revelation was sent to primarily turn people back to the worship of God alone and to teach them the correct way to salvation.
Again I give the example of learning to drive a car. Just because you see a car, does it mean you know everything about it? Yes it’s obvious that someone created the Car, but don’t we need to read the instructions to know how to drive? Better yet, don’t we get someone else to teach us along side reading the instructions!!!
Your story of Moses is far from what is related in both the Bible and Qur’aan (which have very similar stories!)
Moses was not an assassin, but a Jew. God sent many prophets and messengers to the Jews, but they loved to kill them and disobey them. The Jews are been caught and were being oppressed by the Egyptians, so Moses was sent as a leader for the Jews, to rescue them.
It’s like that saying, feed a poor person a meal, you feed him for a day; teach the poor person how to grow and cook his food, you feed him for a lifetime.
Ok, so he was a Jew. The Pharoah was aware that a prophet would be sent to these people (maybe because they always had prophets sent to them, or fortunetellers overhearing the angels in heavens). He decided to kill each first born. It was not God who did this and sent angels to do this. What God did was inform Moses’s mother of this plot and told her to put him in a basket and put him in the river. It turned out that the baket floated to the pharaohs palace and the Pharoah’s wife (who later became a great Muslim) loved him and told him as a son. Thus Moses was saved. Moses only drank the milk of his birth mum, so in that way, God reunited him with his mum when the pharoah’s wife (Asiyah) paid her to feed him.
Then when moses was old enough, he started seeing the injustice the Jews were going through, and he saw one jew being harassed by a solider, so he pushed the soldier and the soldier tripped and died (accidentally). Obviously this was a problem and He decided to leave (even though it was an honest accident). He left and found refuge in a village, wheren he got married and started his training to be a prophet (i.e. he became a shepherd).
Later, God spoke to him and informed him that he was to save the people and lead them to the holly land. God gave him the relevant weapons (speech, his br as a helper and miracles). Moses eventually went back and had a big encounter with the Egyptians. Evetually, he was allowed to leave with the Jews, but the pharaoh changed his mind (or had tricked him) and wanted to kill them all, but God saved Moses and the Jews and He destroyed the army and preserved the Pharoahs body for us to see today! (you can see it at the Egyptian museum)
Then, when they reached the promised land (Jerusalem), the jews refused to follows God’s command and fight the people in the land. They basically told Moses to Take God and fight those people and then when you’re done, come back and tell us and then we’ll go to the land.
They were punished for this and thus had to wonder in the desert for a long period.
That’s the main bits that you spoke about. I have missed a lot and the details of this story are so much that the Qur’aan was almost considered as some as the Story of Moses!
It’s a beautiful story and if you wish to learn the Christian version (although it has some errors) watch the cartoon, ‘Prince of Egypt’
You said, “Isn't death part of life? Afterall, to die all you need is to be alive. Who tought caveman to paint? Who tought them how to create fire? Was it their father?”
God taught Adam and Adam taught his sons and etc etc.
To die all you need to be is alive? What sort of nonsense is that? Why is death part of life? Why do we not live forever? What is the purpose of spending these few years on this planet??
U said, “Hmmm, what about Lazarus? How sick was he?”
According to the bible, he had died. We don’t know who this Lazarus was, but we do believe Jesus brought the dead back to life, by God’s will. This was a miracle to show he was a prophet of God. Not to impress people that he can bring dead people back.
“Why would he interfere? Don't you belive that God controls the forces of nature? Do you think He'll punish the sea because some humans got drowned by it's waters?
Remember the Tsunami that killed so many people in 2005?
Will you blame God for it? Couldn't he had save them?”
its 2004 december 26th and my home is just 5 Km away from the south spot of kerala where tsunami waves hit!
You tell me, why did God allow the tsunami to kill so many people? Islaam gives us explanation for these calamities. How can God not interfere? Tell me, why does your heart beat? Do you tell it to? Who do you think controls that? Who do you think removes and add your soul into your body?!
“You don't die, only your body is eaten by the worms. Is Death a punishement or just part of life? Why did Jesus die so young?”
If you don’t die, then what happens when the soul leave the body? Do you even believe in the soul?
Death has its place, but clearly you don’t know what it is.
Who said Jesus is dead?
“As far as i know it was the climateric conditions that changed the colours of the Human race, have you noticed how Nordic people look so white and people living in Equator (not the country) are so dark?”
This is common sense. But its something that doesn’t have to happen. God could have easily made everyone with skin colour that is the same and wouldn’t change.!
you said, “Again i remind you, Nature is our teacher.”
But who is this ‘Nature’? where did it come from?
Some people, like Darwin, believe its ‘NATARUL’ from white people to be superior to Black. It the survival of the fittest, the process of ‘Natural selection’
“Boy B is brainwashed from Birth that Jewish people are the animals and scum of this world. Just as we all evolved into humans, jewish evolved from monkeys and stayed that way. They worship the devil and he should go explode himself because God will reward him with 42 virgins”
This is a reply I don’t want to address. Because of this comment, I will no longer reply to your comments. I could have easily have torn apart you believed and handed it back to you in pieces! I only wanted to help you find the truth. In no way have I attacked your belief.
First of all, we don’t consider Jews as animals. Many prophets were Jews and So was JESUS! WHO WE LOVE! And many Jews did also become Muslim!
We Don’t believe in evolution
Jews are our cousins, so if they are animals, then so are we!
but the apathy of white people to black people is well known by all people, so my reasoning is social, but your reasoning is rubbish!
Worship the devil? Who does? Do you even believe in the Devil?
do u think a muslim family will taught it about others(jews) as animals?, heyy we are living together with them here in kerala, palestine muslims lost their homes, children, family even livies from 1957, if freedom struggle against oppression is terrorism, then u can call the liberty of inda, american revelution all are terrorism, but the apparthid of white people to african countries is written history, no one will deny it!, if u are dark, then only u can understand our feelings!
the same para i said about Boy B is almost a true fact in social, but u used your muff reasoning to change it with jews and muslims, i feel pity on u.its foolish to tranplant a truth about black people sorrows to jews, is diesm cheapest to answer this???
do u feel its a joke??? if u responding like a joke, u r not worth for a peaceful discussion!
if u read anything about our national father mahatma gandhi connected with south africa and nelson mandela, u will never respond like it!
because of your last lumpish post, u lost your good image as a diest here, i feel so sorry of u!
and the Qs unanswered still!
If God is so Sublime, Why would he create a machine and not give us the manual? I.e. why create us..our bodies.. or minds...and not give us some sort of guidance?
Hitler believed he was saving the world when he was cleansing it of Jews! That was his reasoning?! The Zionists believe Muslims are lower then them, so its find to invade and take their homes in Palestines!
You really wish to trust human reasoning? Bush believed what he did to Iraq was right! He used his 'reasoning' and now look, he is having people through shoes at him! and he himself admitted he made a mistake!
Do me a favour, go sit in an airplane and use your 'reasoning' to fly it. See how far you can get!! And dont say you need lessons! because if you believe you need a few lessons just to fly a tiny plane, then what about mankind! Would they not need a guide to live rightous lives?
It's ironic. You claim to be someone who uses reasoning, yet you are so blinded to the obvious fact that Islaam is the logical choice and that It's laws have great reasoning behind them!!
"Why do you believe in God? Isnt in more convinient to not believe in Him? because you never see him!Then to say He exists but Does nothing!!as brother malabari asked "What is our destination? Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination? Is it hard to believe God can communicate with His creation through messengers and revealations? Considering He created every Atom / quark, etc (!) how difficult is..speach!
You claim you follow reason. Then why dont you ask the Hard questions? Why are we here? Why did God create us?
And how about the rules of man? Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules? Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
who said the discoveries from cave man to moon fly are not manipulated or organized by GOD, all of our scientists are not diests, most of them are believers, and what about the challenge of Qur'an in science???
why scientists, professors, priests and women are embracing islam day to day, are they fools to accept a faith without any reasoning???
why is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealations???
if u r a good diest, try to answer this Qs without twisting, diverting and confusing,
if u have no answer, then keep silent like brother coelacanth,
Finally, I would like to say that our conversation has reached an end. I only wish to speak to and help people who have a genuine interest in the religion. I have no spare time to waste with rude people. You seem like a person who speaks about reasoning and the mind, yet when facts are presented to you, you try brush them off with ‘smart comments’, which simply expose your lack of interest.
You speak of God and the devil and death, yet your knowledge of these are limited to what you learnt from nature or ‘television’.
Why don’t you atleast thinking about what we have said? Are you so scared that Islaam may actually be the truth? Havent you ever wondered why we are here? What things happen around us? And how?
Everything has laws and we follow them. Our countries have laws, we follow them; animals have laws, they follow them; even the planets have laws and they follow them. Have you ever fought with gravity? Why don’t you use your intellect and prove that we don’t need gravity?
In America, after the hurricane hit, look at how man turned into animal because of the lack of the law!
Everyday, like it or not, you and your body are goverened by the laws of God. The only difference is, the spiritual law (i.e Law related to our soul) is something that we have a choice in following. So you have bleed when you get cut, you have to fall when you jump, etc but you don’t have to believe in God or worship you….and this …is the Ultimate Test. What will you do with your free choice?
You find it absurd that anyone could doubt God’s creation…we find it even more absurd that you believe in God, but not His laws.
If you cannot use your intellect to reply with sensible answers and without being rude or offensive, then please do not reply. There are plenty of nutcases on the web who love to fight, you can go join them on the forum and debate with them.
Sorry if my post is too big :)
God bless you plato brother
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
You are right, Sisterfatima & Malbari both are just trying to win the arguments........ignoring the fact that other religions, their books & Prophets or any religious personalities are as same respectable to the followers as Islam, Quran and other relevant are respectable to Muslims.............
Ohh my God such big posts, I tried reading them all but quit after seeing thier size. Why the QL is being used as a preaching tool. I just want to say if you want to preach something you have to win the hearts by showing practicle examples not by winning arguments.
Sister fatima, I think Platao lost the track of his posts. Thats why contradictory statements coming from him. This is common. If one doesn't have any reference of fundamentals then he will end up in confusion. Now the problem is that whether to accept or deny Messengers, whether to accept heaven and hell or not? Is messenger is spirit? I don't know what is what and where is where???? Total confusion. This is the way one reacts when he is unable to answer questions.... I had asked some simple questions and no diest provided me any answer yet......
"what is this brother???
i never expected this from you, this is utter hypocracy!
do u think a muslim family will taught it about others(jews) as animals?, heyy we are living together with them here in kerala, palestine muslims lost their homes, children, family even livies from 1957, if freedom struggle against oppression is terrorism, then u can call the liberty of inda, american revelution all are terrorism, but the apparthid of white people to african countries is written history, no one will deny it!, if u are dark, then only u can understand our feelings!"
Sisterfatima: This is not hipocrisy. Look at the example you gave, isn't that hipocrisy? I gave you one example like u did, just changed the religion and race of the people, if i would think as you are thinking now, i would have insulted you as you are doing now, in my example u can see that i say a muslim familly that belongs to Al Qaeda as a reply to the family belonging to KKK.
Yous said:
"Let us experiment:
Boy A and Boy B and put in two houses with two different families. One family is part of the KKK (Klux Klan), while the other is Muslim Family.
Boy A is from Africa and is sent to the Muslim Family, while Boy B is from England and is sent to the KKK family."
My reply:
"Let us experiment:
Boy A and Boy B and put in two houses with two different families. One family is part of the Al-Qaeda, while the other is a Deist Family.
Boy A is from Africa and is sent to the Deist Family, while Boy B is from Israel and is sent to the Al-Qaeda family."
My suggestion is, calm down and be racional, you can resume all just by saying one was correctly raised and the other was badly raised, without mentionating religion/race.
When you are less nervous, we can resume chat.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Platao, you and coelacanth helped me to understand what is diesm and what I learned is enough to me. No more confusions required. Myths about islam could be there, that is not the mistake of islam, it may be the misunderstanding of those who raise the concerns.....Islam is very clear and straight. La Ilaha Illallah, Muhammadurrasulullah..... Belief on Shahadath is islam.... No more reasoning is required......Sincere belief is enough, the further guidence will be received from Almighty.....
its funny that u r asking the same Q to me, already i said i belive in heaven and hell, and God will credit what we did, if we are good, HE will reward, if we are bad, HE will punish,because he is just and merciful, this is simple reasoning.
but u r the one who said "i dont belive in heaven and hell"
so now come to my Q
"and yet they both(teresa and hitler) end up in the same type of grave? Is God unjust as you preceive?"
brother nice too nice,
i found plato is bit confuser here, he knows twisting methods, and diverting skills well.
first he said i belive in messengers like moses, jesus, muhammed.
now responding a little against to them just like brother coelacanth.
so u have to update your profile!
and now he said "spirits are the messengers"
what is what??? which is which???
and brother plato, sure insha allah i will touch all of your unnecessary Qs which are not even merely touched to my logic Qs, i found all are confusing, twisting diverting answers to clear QS of mine! and today friday being busy here, i will touch a few points , and rest tomarrow i will post, i am not a coward to run away and twist, divert, confuse the discussion.
""Boy B is brainwashed from Birth that Jewish people are the animals and scum of this world. Just as we all evolved into humans, jewish evolved from monkeys and stayed that way. They worship the devil and he should go explode himself because God will reward him with 42 virgins""
what is this brother???
i never expected this from you, this is utter hypocracy!
do u think a muslim family will taught it about others(jews) as animals?, heyy we are living together with them here in kerala, palestine muslims lost their homes, children, family even livies from 1957, if freedom struggle against oppression is terrorism, then u can call the liberty of inda, american revelution all are terrorism, but the apparthid of white people to african countries is written history, no one will deny it!, if u are dark, then only u can understand our feelings!
the same para i said about Boy B is almost a true fact in social, but u used your muff reasoning to change it with jews and muslims, i feel pity on u.
jews evolved from monkeys??, here u proved ur reasoning is nothing while answering this! "they worship devil"?? its foolish to tranplant a truth about black people sorrows to jews, is diesm cheapest to answer this???
do u feel its a joke??? if u responding like a joke, u r not worth for a peaceful discussion!
if u born in kenya and working in UK, u will not respond like it!
lets' come to my turn, if u born in south india and working in minnesota, u will not respond like it!
if u read anything about our national father mahatma gandhi connected with south africa and nelson mandela, u will never respond like it!
because of your last lumpish post, u lost your good image as a diest here, i feel so sorry of u!
and produce a proof verse or hadeed for suppoting your 42 virgin claim!(for slughtering them)
ask your brother coelacanth about the discussion in QL this thread, we have already refuted the misconception of 72 virgins and suicide bombing with the obviouse verses from holy Qur'an, do your people blind-duff to repeat the same grabage which is answered clearly once???
and the Qs unanswered still!
If God is so Sublime, Why would he create a machine and not give us the manual? I.e. why create us..our bodies.. or minds...and not give us some sort of guidance?
Hitler believed he was saving the world when he was cleansing it of Jews! That was his reasoning?! The Zionists believe Muslims are lower then them, so its find to invade and take their homes in Palestines!
You really wish to trust human reasoning? Bush believed what he did to Iraq was right! He used his 'reasoning' and now look, he is having people through shoes at him! and he himself admitted he made a mistake!
Do me a favour, go sit in an airplane and use your 'reasoning' to fly it. See how far you can get!! And dont say you need lessons! because if you believe you need a few lessons just to fly a tiny plane, then what about mankind! Would they not need a guide to live rightous lives?
It's ironic. You claim to be someone who uses reasoning, yet you are so blinded to the obvious fact that Islaam is the logical choice and that It's laws have great reasoning behind them!!
"Why do you believe in God? Isnt in more convinient to not believe in Him? because you never see him!Then to say He exists but Does nothing!!as brother malabari asked "What is our destination? Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination? Is it hard to believe God can communicate with His creation through messengers and revealations? Considering He created every Atom / quark, etc (!) how difficult is..speach!
You claim you follow reason. Then why dont you ask the Hard questions? Why are we here? Why did God create us?
And how about the rules of man? Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules? Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
who said the discoveries from cave man to moon fly are not manipulated or organized by GOD, all of our scientists are not diests, most of them are believers, and what about the challenge of Qur'an in science???
why scientists, professors, priests and women are embracing islam day to day, are they fools to accept a faith without any reasoning???
why is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealations???
I'm really enjoying this friendly constructive argument, i just wished that more people would be able to discuss these matters as peacefully as we all have been doing, thanks a lot for not getting angry me
Sorry if my post is too big :)
God bless you plato brother
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Nice too Nice: You didn't read all i wrote did you? Read again: "Regarding knowing that they are really spirits, try ask them a question that only you and the spirit with whom you are talking know, if he gives the right answer he's being true, if he fails, he's lying to you, easy."
Got it now?
I have answered your question but apparently, you didn't read the part where i said :
"try ask them a question that only you and the spirit with whom you are talking know"
Was it on purpose?
Now, i advise you to read: http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm
Than we can talk more about Deism, i can add here another article regarding the Myths of Islam but that could hurt some of my Muslim brothers so i'll restrain myself from doing it.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Platao, your answer is not relevant to my question. I asked how you know the answer from spirit is right or wrong. Your answer is "if the answer from spirit is right, the spirit is true and vice versa." I don't understand this!!!!
You asked a question because you don't know the answer, then how you confirm the answer is right or wrong when the spirit replies??????
Please try to provide answer in simple way. Otherwise I may have to find another diest to understand the reasoning theory behind your answer.
The diests here again ignored my question as usual...
Sister fatima, diest doesn't have any basics or fundamentals. diesm is based on the person and his surroundings. Thats what I realised from here. Coelacanth is not believing on Messengers but hell and heaver. Platao is believing on Messengers but not on heaven and hell. It contradicts each and every thing according to the person who claims to be a diest....
Sisterfatima:
" and yet they both(teresa and hitler) end up in the same type of grave? Is God unjust as you preceive?"
God is always just, or do you mean if God is just on a Human point of view?
Don't forget that He created several creatures besides Humans and his justice is equal to all His creations.
Saddam Hussein is in same type of Grave as the Kurds resistants? Is God unjust as you perceive?
"plato brother, if my soul or mind is my spirit, then my reasoning for believing in uncompramised monothiesm(la ilaha illallah)and believing in messengers(like u)and revealations send by GOD are simply answered by my spirit."
You can't talk with your own spirit, only the spirits without a body can be contacted.
I didn't said i belived in revelations, i belive that the spirits are messengers of God.
"Prophet Moses, was sent to people engulfed in Magic. He went head to head against the pharoahs greatest magicians, thus God gave him miracles that made these magic tricks to be what they are..i.e. mere illusions."
Dear Sister fatima, Remember the Big Flood? Remember who created the Universe? Do you truelly think that God needs to make revelations when he has created us with a brain that allows us to racionalize and be aware that he exists?
Regarding Moses, as far as i know from documentaries seen in the television, Moses was an assassin that was "selected" by God to free His people from the hands of the Egyptians because "God hadn't enough power to do it himself " ( not attacking any faith but just being ironic ) so, God decided to send some angels on a pious mission to kill every first born of the Egyptian citizans, than, when the army followed the people on the run, He allowed Moses to Kill the Egyptian army, that was only following their Pharaoh orders, than, as a way to thank their efforts God made the Choosen people to walk in the desert during 40 years."
How did i do with my reasoning so far?
"Deism is the dogma most open to problems. Many people have different ways of reasoning and who is to say one way is right? For example, if someone finds a man is beating is wife, one man reasons out that killing this man would save this woman. This is logical. However, what about the children? do you deprive them of a father?"
Isn't death part of life? Afterall, to die all you need is to be alive. Who tought caveman to paint? Who tought them how to create fire? Was it their father?
"Prophet Jesus, Jews at that time had great knowledge in Medicine. They cured broken bones and the people were amazed by this. Thus, jesus's miracles revolved around healing, eg healing the blind, the leaper, etc."
Hmmm, what about Lazarus? How sick was he?
"What about the purpose of Life? Why would God create all this? Why go through so much trouble (although Creating this universe is very easy for God) and then leave it all alone?"
Why would he interfere? Don't you belive that God controls the forces of nature? Do you think He'll punish the sea because some humans got drowned by it's waters?
Remember the Tsunami that killed so many people in 2005?
Will you blame God for it? Couldn't he had save them?
"What happens when we die? Where is the justice? You claim God is not biased, then why let some tyrannts live long lives and some good people suffer with illness such as cancer and die young?"
You don't die, only your body is eaten by the worms. Is Death a punishement or just part of life? Why did Jesus die so young?
"Why did God create races? If He is Just, why not make us one colour? Isnt race one of the big problems in our world?"
As far as i know it was the climateric conditions that changed the colours of the Human race, have you noticed how Nordic people look so white and people living in Equator (not the country) are so dark?
==========
Let us experiment:
Boy A and Boy B and put in two houses with two different families. One family is part of the Al-Qaeda, while the other is a Deist Family.
Boy A is from Africa and is sent to the Deist Family, while Boy B is from Israel and is sent to the Al-Qaeda family.
The Deist Family teaches Boy A that race is nothing more than colour of the skin. Just as God created different colour rocks, mountains and even animals, we are just part of this variety in creation. We wouldnt say a black rock is better then a brown one, or vice versa, so why should be descriminate with humans? The reality is that the best of us are the ones who are conscious of the existence of God and that don't try to make him belive that the same God we belive sent revelations to 1 People
and that all others must follow blindly some books supposed to be God's word.
Boy B is brainwashed from Birth that Jewish people are the animals and scum of this world. Just as we all evolved into humans, jewish evolved from monkeys and stayed that way. They worship the devil and he should go explode himself because God will reward him with 42 virgins
All his life he is taught this garbage.
Do you think this has no effect on him? What happens when Boy A meets Boy B in the future? Do you think he will use this reasoning to realise that Boy A is as human as he is?!
As you can see, everytime we answer a question another one rises up.
Remember what i said about low level spirits? Again i remind you, Nature is our teacher.
I'm really enjoying this friendly constructive argument, i just wished that more people would be able to discuss these matters as peacefully as we all have been doing, thanks a lot for not getting angry either with me or brother Coelecanth :)
Sorry if my post is too big :)
God bless you sister Fatima
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
The same God that created whirlwinds, volcanoes, Tsunamis, storms, etc...
As i stated before he may have created them to show us the way? Don't we all prefer to be loved than hated?
Maybe Mother Teresa is the way God wants us to be and Hitler what we shouldn't be?
this is not the answer of my Q, i have asked it because u said diest does'nt have belive in paradise and hell, now come to my Q and yet they both(teresa and hitler) end up in the same type of grave? Is God unjust as you preceive?
and please compare the posts of mine in this 7th page and the posts of u and coelacanth brother, most of my Qs are kept un answered by u comrads. May be your reasonings not works or very hard to answer them.if u wish, i will number it from 1 to beyond limit!
yes brother nice too nice, if they belive in the eixistence of GOD without seeing him like us, then they can easily belive about messengers like plato, and revealations, paradise and hell. because they both are humans like u and me. Both of them's response sounds similar to those people of Taif. They didnt deny the Messenger(peace be upon him), but they couldnt accept that he was chosen. They thought they would be better as they were wealthier, more powerful, etc etc.
Coelacanth, please be informed that Almighty will not pardon one who killed innocent people. It is very clearly stated in the Holy Qur'an. One more thing, the one who kill himself won't reach near to the heaven. So we don't think that the people who become suicide bombers and kills thousands of innocents will reach to heaven because of he claims to be Muslim. Muslim means who believes one and only Almighty and His Messengers, His Holy Books and who live a life according to the teachings and the path shown to him. I am not authorized to tell the future of people from other faith. But one thing is sure, He will not pardon the one who did SHIRK(accompany the Almighty with other so called Gods).
brother nice too nice indeed the truth!!!
brother coelacanth we have cleared about the misconceptions of sucide bombers u claimed here in this thread of Ql with the help of obvious verses from Holy Qur'an, dont u remember??? yet repeating seems that you have an ability of solomon's twistings!
plato brother, if my soul or mind is my spirit, then my reasoning for believing in uncompramised monothiesm(la ilaha illallah)and believing in messengers(like u)and revealations send by GOD are simply answered by my spirit.
brother coelacanth and plato, (the two diests pals of us)
please listen it,(and plz dont ignore it what u both did to my previous posts)i have compiled in my word document only for both of you brothers who i added as my buddy list of QL.
God isnt Biased. He is the Most Just.
God was not stupid to make us naively believe anyone who claims to have spoken to God. He gave them many signs. If you use that 'reasoning' you will see the wisdom in each and every sign. For example:
Prophet Moses, was sent to people engulfed in Magic. He went head to head against the pharoahs greatest magicians, thus God gave him miracles that made these magic tricks to be what they are..i.e. mere illusions. So much so, that even the Magicians ackowledged that Moses was saying the truth and, in the Qur'aan, they become believers and are severly threatend by crucifixion and mutilation, by the pharoah!
Prophet Jesus, Jews at that time had great knowledge in Medicine. They cured broken bones and the people were amazed by this. Thus, jesus's miracles revolved around healing, eg healing the blind, the leaper, etc.
Prophet Muhammad, Arabs are reached the peak in their Language. They were amazing and eleqouent in their poetry. Thus, The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) came with the ultimate miracle, the words of God that crushed the poets words into dust! No poet could and has and will ever match the level and beauty of the Language used in the Qur'aan
There were other miracles as well, some which were more relevant to those times. But the miracle and the main sign of prophethood of the Prophet Muhammad, is the miracle of the Qur'aan. It is flawless, accurate in everyway and touches the heart of anyone who hears and reads it. Not to forget its scientific miracles and predictions!(alhamdulillah, plato brother belive in the above 3 messengers of ALLAH)
Deism is the dogma most open to problems. Many people have different ways of reasoning and who is to say one way is right? For example, if someone finds a man is beating is wife, one man reasons out that killing this man would save this woman. This is logical. However, what about the children? do you deprive them of a father?
What about the purpose of Life? Why would God create all this? Why go through so much trouble (although Creating this universe is very easy for God) and then leave it all alone?
What happens when we die? Where is the justice? You claim God is not biased, then why let some tyrannts live long lives and some good people suffer with illness such as cancer and die young?
Why did God create races? If He is Just, why not make us one colour? Isnt race one of the big problems in our world?
If God is so Sublime, Why would he create a machine and not give us the manual? I.e. why create us..our bodies.. or minds...and not give us some sort of guidance?
You actually think you use your reasoning unbiasedly?
Let us experiment:
Boy A and Boy B and put in two houses with two different families. One family is part of the KKK (Klux Klan), while the other is Muslim Family.
Boy A is from Africa and is sent to the Muslim Family, while Boy B is from England and is sent to the KKK family.
The Muslim Family teaches Boy A that race is nothing more than colour of the skin. Just as God created different colour rocks, mountains and even animals, we are just part of this variety in creation. We wouldnt say a black rock is better then a brown one, or vice versa, so why should be descriminate with humans? The reality is that the best of us are the ones who are muttaqoon (Have the greatest fear of God - i.e. Piety)
Boy B is brainwashed from Birth that Black people are the animals and scum of this world. Just as we all evolved into humans, black evolved from monkeys and stayed that way. They worship the devil and should be burnt as God wills it!
All his life he is taught this garbage.
Do you think this has no effect on him? What happens when Boy A meets Boy B in the future? Do you think he will use this reasoning to realise that Boy A is as human as he is?!
My point is that our minds are constantly filled with rubbish from our surroundings. People do things the way they think is correct, when infact, at times, they way they did it is wrong.
Hitler believed he was saving the world when he was cleansing it of Jews! That was his reasoning?! The Zionists believe Muslims are lower then them, so its find to invade and take their homes in Palestines!
You really wish to trust human reasoning? Bush believed what he did to Iraq was right! He used his 'reasoning' and now look, he is having people through shoes at him! and he himself admitted he made a mistake!
Do me a favour, go sit in an airplane and use your 'reasoning' to fly it. See how far you can get!! And dont say you need lessons! because if you believe you need a few lessons just to fly a tiny plane, then what about mankind! Would they not need a guide to live rightous lives?
It's ironic. You claim to be someone who uses reasoning, yet you are so blinded to the obvious fact that Islaam is the logical choice and that It's laws have great reasoning behind them!!
i am saying as a loving sister of u both, this the universal brotherhood! portugal-philippine-india-qatar!
wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu wa magfirathu wa aafiyathu wa barakallahu feekum fi amanillah!
Nice to Nice: They already replied, wanna leurn about it?
Check: http://www.afterlife101.com/Spirits_Book.html
Would you like to ask them yourself?
Regarding knowing that they are really spirits, try ask them a question that only you and the spirit with whom you are talking know, if he gives the right answer he's being true, if he fails, he's lying to you, easy.
Another advise is, don't try playing with the spirits.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
So Coelacanth and Platao, since one of you claim that you have ability to talk to spirits...Then why don't you ask them about heaven and hell. And can you ask them where they are now?
Coelacanth, please be informed that Almighty will not pardon one who killed innocent people. It is very clearly stated in the Holy Qur'an. One more thing, the one who kill himself won't reach near to the heaven. So we don't think that the people who become suicide bombers and kills thousands of innocents will reach to heaven because of he claims to be Muslim. Muslim means who believes one and only Almighty and His Messengers, His Holy Books and who live a life according to the teachings and the path shown to him. I am not authorized to tell the future of people from other faith. But one thing is sure, He will not pardon the one who did SHIRK(accompany the Almighty with other so called Gods).
So you said that Platao has asked about the existence of God and confirmed through spirits. Did he seen spirits? How he confirm that the spirit has had chat with him. And even if he sure about the spirit, how he know the spirit is telling the truth???? I can't reason it. Please explain according to your theory.
I did not get the answer for my question. Here I feel that sister fatima claimed in her posts are very true. Most of the questions are unanswered or ignored. Why?
being a muslim, I am not confused at all. I already told why I asked that questions... I don't know whether there is a problem on diest to understand simple things?
Or you people are pretend that u did not understand the questions properly becuase of difficulty in answering....
Coelacanth: Exactly, but like i stated it was a gift from God, just wish that i'm worth of it, the main problem with talking with spirits are those people that are only worried about physical needs instead of spiritual.
Loving each others as brothers and sisters will bring to us all the peace this world needs, even scholars are trying to set a common plantaform to all religions and i'm sure that God will be proud of us all.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
nice too nice...the idea of Paradise and Hell comes from the Religious books...nowhere will you see any reasoning for the presence of hell nor of paradise (aka heaven). Platao here has the ability to talk to spirits, and the question about heaven and hell and God had been asked, and confirmed the presence of God from the "unseen" creation that some people has the ability to see. Presence of heaven or hell...NO. Deism is based on reasoning and wisdom...not just by what we see with our eyes. We can't see God, but the reasoning behind the creation is ever present and obvious, that leads us to believe the existence of the Supreme Being, not because we read it from somewhere and say Amen to it.
We are not threatened that if we die we'll be going to heaven or hell...God created us all the same...if the buddhist did not believe in your Qu'ran or the the hindus did not believe in the Bible, are they bound to hell? Imagine the weight in God's eyes a buddhist/hindu who haven't killed a single person to a suicide bomber who killed "infidels" because of his so called faith. Will God glorify the latter and condemn the rest? I am not attacking your faith but reason out the question that i gave. If God will favor the latter, why?
No one is twisting the questions nor playing the words to confuse the public...no one here is confused except you, since you are the first person to ask me, a firm believer of God, the existence of him.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
"You people raised question about His Messengers and His creations. Then how you can say that you are believing on HIM."
Nice to Nice: since beggining that i and coelecanth been stating that we are Deists, as Coelecanth already explained before DEists belive in God and reasoning.
Our reasoning says that a perfect being doesn't contradict himself or has a choosen people or that imposes his will, only imperfect beings like us, humans, would have such behaviors.
Again i remind that i'm only reasoning and not attacking any Faith.
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Coelacanth, It is very funny. "Imagine your brain...if i ask you if you've seen your brain, will you say yes? If yes, how you managed to see it without you getting unconscious? If you say no, does it prove that you have no brain? Your brain exists, but you haven't seen it...why do you believe you have a brain? "
You are asking the questions which I should have asked to you. I never said that my belief are based on reasoning, you the diest said it. You need a reasoning to believe on something. I never questioned the existence of Almighty. I was trying to understand how your reasoning theory works.... You said that you believe on God , but not believing on His creations like heaven and hell because you didn’t see heaven and hell. There my question arise. Though you did not seen God still you believe on Him. How this reasoning works. You believe on one which you not seen yet the same time you don’t believe on other one because you did not seen them……(can any QLer help me on this except the diests…)
Don’t try to fool the public by twisting the questions and playing with words to confuse them. As a muslim I believe on Almighty and His Creations without seeing them. I do believe on His Messengers also(without seeing them too).
No matter how Platao or I differ in belief about heaven or hell, or the messengers that you reffer, It matters dear brother. It shows the diesm has no any basics… It is based on the person. I have a question here. Can a blind be diest??? How he could reason the things?????
I did not challenge the Presence of Almighty , His messengers and existence of heaven and hell. You people raised question about His Messengers and His creations. Then how you can say that you are believing on HIM.
Nice to Nice: Not contradicting, i should have said Paradise and Hell, Heaven is used as the place where God lives. Sorry my error.
Shajiv: Exactly.
Sisterfatima:
"masha allah, he seem to be a good muslim as the word "peace worker""
Thanks for your kind words :)
"What sort of God created a man like Hitler and a woman like Mother Teresa, and yet they both end up in the same type of grave? Is God unjust as you preceive?"
The same God that created whirlwinds, volcanoes, Tsunamis, storms, etc...
As i stated before he may have created them to show us the way? Don't we all prefer to be loved than hated?
Maybe Mother Teresa is the way God wants us to be and Hitler what we shouldn't be?
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
nice too nice...why is it so hard for you to believe that my referrence of the word heaven is the sky above you? you were saying that we desit based our belief in seeing things and reasoning...and i explained to you the reasoning as to why we believe that there is God without even seeing him. you want another example of my reasoning about the existence of God? Imagine your brain...if i ask you if you've seen your brain, will you say yes? If yes, how you managed to see it without you getting unconscious? If you say no, does it prove that you have no brain? Your brain exists, but you haven't seen it...why do you believe you have a brain? No matter how Platao or I differ in belief about heaven or hell, or the messengers that you reffer, we have a common belief that there is One Nature God, and we are not bound by the politics of religion. What is the discussion about that? You are not an Atheist, but the way you challenge a question about the "existence" of God is how Atheist challenge a believer. Deism is not a religion...it's a belief of One God based on reasoning and wisdom.
Please read your post: "So, tell me how you believe on One God without seeing him? How your reasoning theory works here??? And you said the maker of Heaven....Did you see the heaven? Then how you believe that God made the Heaven"...this is how an Atheist challenge a believer of God. I am a believer of God, why challenge me of asking God's existence? We never challenge ANY denomination this question...we challenge the religion or the messengers or the book, but not the existence of God. You should be ashamed of yourself on calling yourself a Muslim, yet challenging a believer of God it's existence.
"LA ILAHA ILLALLAH"...challenge an Atheist, but not a believer of Supreme God.
Assalam aleikum!
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
they both differ about messengers also.
coelacanth brother qouted a verse from bible and interpreted it and refused to accept messengers
but see plato brother's profile,
"""I'm a peace worker that belives in only 1 God, it can be called either God or Allah, and no, i ain't either christan/protestant/jew/muslim but a monotheist just like Moses, Jesus Christ and Mohamed."""
masha allah, he seem to be a good muslim as the word "peace worker"
plato brother, muslims are monotheist like Moses, Jesus Christ and Mohamed and YOU.
so cheers brother plato.
unanswered Q by both of the buddies
is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealations???
The supreme being that created us and all the Universe gave us reasoning so we could leurn with all that surround us, the best example i can remember is the evolution than Humanity made since the caves time to the 21st century where we fly to the moon.
who said the discoveries from cave man to moon fly are not manipulated or organized by GOD, all of our scientists are not diests, most of them are believers, and what about the challenge of Qur'an in science???
why scientists, professors, priests and women are embracing islam day to day, are they fools to accept a faith without any reasoning???
The school is the human experience, nature is the teacher.
behold, this is not the answer of my Q "Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
and my analysis of 4th point is apt for it, but your Q is based on atheism i think. you said diests not belive in heaven and hell? What sort of God created a man like Hitler and a woman like Mother Teresa, and yet they both end up in the same type of grave? Is God unjust as you preceive? but brother coelacanth said some ago that "God will credit you for what you did," where? in this world or after death like heaven and hell? as brother nice too nice asked "Why do you believe in God? Isnt in more convinient to not believe in Him? because you never see him!Then to say He exists but Does nothing!!as brother malabari asked "What is our destination? Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination? Is it hard to believe God can communicate with His creation through messengers and revealations? Considering He created every Atom / quark, etc (!) how difficult is..speach!
You claim you follow reason. Then why dont you ask the Hard questions? Why are we here? Why did God create us?
And how about the rules of man? Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules?
Why does a perfect being need to be "paid"?
God is not gaining or losing anything. But God is Just and Merciful. If you are good, he will reward you, if you are bad, he will punish you. here your reasoning works. Where is the bribe there? Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
Ceolacanth, it is very suprising to me that your reply is in such a way that pointing me as an athiest who denied Almighty. I never denied Almighty. Am a muslim and can not deny Almighty at all. I did not had any problem in believing on Almighty without seeing him...
You, diest have said that you will believe only on basis of seeing the things and reasoning the things. And you said that you beleive on heaven...(I just copy your words here again; "I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen."). Then I asked about your reasoning. What happened to your reasoning when you start beleiving on heaven which is not seen by you. ???
dont say that "Heaven, in layman's term, is the sky. That is my referrence of "heaven" because if you ask anyone where is heaven, they will look UP as to where the sky is." If so, why you said that "I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is SEEN and UNSEEN." What about the belief on UNSEEN things???
NEXT THING YOU SAID:::
"Platao and I are different person...but you can see the singleness of our post because we have a common belief..." I don't agree with this statement. You and Platao differs in believing on heaven and unseen things... see platao's words "Deists don't belive in heaven or hell."
Finally "If you can confirm to me that nobody designed the buildings around you, then i would tell you that there is no God at all." I am here not to deny Almighty, being a muslim I am more sure than you about the presence of Almighty. You people has the confusion about him and need reasoning to believe on HIM. For me and other muslims in this world do not need any further proof to accept Almighty. We believe LA ILAHA ILLALLAH.." without any reasoning or requirement of seeing things......
nice to nice...there is no contradiction there. Heaven, in layman's term, is the sky. That is my referrence of "heaven" because if you ask anyone where is heaven, they will look UP as to where the sky is.
About believing in God without seeing Him, have you seen the architect of all the buildings around you? Do you believe that this buildings just appeared like mushrooms and no one created it? Just as my friend Platao was saying, look around you. Everything around you is "designed" to be there. If there is a design, who is the "Designer"? Have you ever wondered why the designer of your body placed such delicate organ such as the brain on your head and not on your ass? Have you ever wondered why your genitals are hidden and not on your face? That is because the designer wants it that way. If you can confirm to me that nobody designed the buildings around you, then i would tell you that there is no God at all. I hope i answered the "confusion and contradiction" that you mentioned.
Platao and I are different person...but you can see the singleness of our post because we have a common belief...a simple belief of the existence of One Nature God. Reasoning at work. :D
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
The first thing when you think in a rational way, try to be a good human being, all other things coming secondary ways. These so called names of different religions are the result of manifestations by people from different believe. So, don't worry about what others think about you, just be you. Do what is best for you and be happy in life.
Platao, There you are. Your fellow diest and you are contradicting each other... Coelacanth, the other diest here is saying that he belives on God who created the heaven and earth, the seen and unseen. You said that diest don't believe on heaven and hell.
Again, your reasoning is based on seeing the thing... Ok you seen everything in nature, but how you believe on Supreme power without seeing? Then your reasoning theory is not working brother.....
Here the religion helps you to believe on The Almighty who created the universe and sent His Messengers to us to teach about Him and his creations...Heaven and Hell.....
SisterFatima:
"my reasoning:-It’s hard to believe this Supreme being would create all this and let us walk on earth without guidance!
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!"
The supreme being that created us and all the Universe gave us reasoning so we could leurn with all that surround us, the best example i can remember is the evolution than Humanity made since the caves time to the 21st century where we fly to the moon.
The school is the human experience, nature is the teacher.
"This comment almost sounds like a criminal complaining about the law because he knows he will be punished for breaking it!
I’ll give you an example. Does a parent not tell a child to obey him and not play with fire or they will get burnt? This is the same as what Islaam teaches. God says to worship Him alone and you will be blessed with eternal peace in Paradise. However, if you disobey and cause mischief on earth, your adobe is the fire. "
The question is: Why would a perfect being that never fails or makes mistakes, being aware of His own Greatness, need to threaten one of His creations that if they don't do this and that they are bad and will be punished?
Such behavior may be interpreted as someone pretending to be the real God, why would a perfect being prefer humans over other creations? Just because we are the only racional beings that exist that doesn't mean there aren't others. Or do you belive that in such a huge universe we are the only racional creatures?
"Everyday, I am sure this person goes to work and gets paid. Why doesn’t he work for free? Is his manager bribing him to work? No, he will argue that my manager is rewarding me for my work. Likewise, God is not gaining or losing anything. But God is Just and Merciful. If you are good, he will reward you, if you are bad, he will punish you. Where is the bribe there?
Humans are selfish, if this deist has figured that out, then perhaps he should go and see what is happening in the real world! "
Why does a perfect being need to be "paid"? We just have to look around us to know that He exists. Ever thought that what was made at the image of God were our souls and not the physical body?
God is also omnipotent and omnipresent, he's also aware of our limitations but he trusted us to Nature to teach us.
Nice too nice:
"So, tell me how you believe on One God without seeing him? How your reasoning theory works here??? And you said the maker of Heaven....Did you see the heaven? Then how you believe that God made the Heaven."
Like i stated previouslly, you just need to go outside and look around you, see all the natural wonders and your reason will tell you that something had to create it.
Deists don't belive in heaven or hell.
3sure:
"3sure-hunk3r said wait a minute the monment i ...
wait a minute the monment i was reading the thread i noticed something platao and coelacanth is one person."
You kidding right? I'm in Portugal, no idea where's coelecanth but mods can check IP's and confirm what i'm saying.
To all participating in this post: I'm stating my opinions, please, no one take my words as an attack to anybody or anything.
Ayman
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
we are all human here, whatever religion do we have it doesn't mean your good or bad it depends how you use your life. so, please stop fighting guys let's enjoy life.. peace to all
wait a minute the monment i was reading the thread i noticed something platao and coelacanth is one person.
I qoute what patao said;
"Deism doesn't have followers...the only thing that Platao and i have in common is the belief that "Revealed Religion" doesn't come from God, and there is only One TRUE God
see above post
"Born optimist nothing can keep me too low for so long"
Coelacanth, At a moment you said "faith is blindly embracing something without any reasoning, just like heaven and hell, though not one from your followers have gone nor seen any of it..." and very niext moment, your words are ""I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen."
So, tell me how you believe on One God without seeing him? How your reasoning theory works here??? And you said the maker of Heaven....Did you see the heaven? Then how you believe that God made the Heaven.
Anyone who believes in One God is a Deist.
it's a belief based on reasoning, so everyone will have different understanding but everything is based on the reasoning and wisdom given by the Supreme Being, our Nature God
i belive in one true GOD, who is only one.
and i follow reasoning.
so i am a diest , cheers brother coelacanth.
I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen
is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealtions???
ok u said those points are just a reference, let me say those 5 points are not a crieteria to scale a religion true or not. because that 5 points are not issued as divine scale and they are altimately man made, a human brain reasoning, so it might have errors, misconceptions, and mistakes. its baseless to measure a noble faith(assume)with 5 points written by a diest. do you belive that diest is an angel or messenger?, ever he claimed it? so we can just avoid it!
but for your sake only, i am trying to analyze it(5 things), and hope i use almost my brain logic reasoning here, not blind accepting, so please be diplomatic in replaying, as 'nice too nice' asked yet you too believing blindly about GOD, now you will say about Bing bang, and i can qoute it about Qur'an, then u will say 'interpretation', going non stop discussion, but still u did'nt accept my challenge to refer more than 3 translations about the verses i have given, and i can give some more about it.
brother coelacanth, this is a humble try(not copy pasted), but i typed in word yesterday after reading your last post,(may timtan say copy pasted, hehe), and assume its a running race, i am running with reasoning islam, and you are running with reasoning "______", u can fill this blank with the same word "reasoning" or simply "diesm", and diesm is not at all a religion, so u cannot fill the dash with that word!
“deism is not a religion...it's a belief based on reasoning, so everyone will have different understanding but everything is based on the reasoning and wisdom given by the Supreme Being, our Nature God.”
Hitler used his ‘reasoning’ that jews were not worthy of living and slaughtered them.
Darwin and co. used their ‘reasoning’ to justify slavery (i.e. that black men were animals)
my reasoning:-It’s hard to believe this Supreme being would create all this and let us walk on earth without guidance!
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
“Deism doesn't have followers...Imagine the same religions being interpreted in thousands of ways, and yet everyone claimed that their interpretation is correct. That makes division among each and everyone of you. Is the book that everyone is trying to interpret supposed to be that way? What made you so sure that your interpretation of the book is the correct one?”
One word answer is: PROOF
God didn’t just reveal the Qur’aan, he sent Messengers with the revelation. Thus, we follow the Qur’aan as taught by the Messenger of God and not by some unknown individual. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was described as the walking Qur’aan and there is wisdom in God teaching us the correct way using an example.
Without assuming there is an actual 'true' religion, it's safe to argue that all false religions will exhibit one or more of these five manifestations
According to…who?
1. The requirement to proselytize
Any God who is too powerless to reach his or her creation directly must not be a true God worthy of being followed. Humans are the worst vehicles for broadcasting knowledge when you consider two people who see the same exact event will tell two different stories about it, not to mention when they're asked to tell second and third-hand stories told them by others. False religions are easily exposed when they send out their members to make more followers for their impotent deity
Perhaps he may feel humans are worst vehicles, maybe from his personal experience, but we believe, as you said, God has given us a mind, a way to reason and wisdom. We do not accept information from anyone, we verify it and this is done in a lengthy process.
Each chain of narration contains an individual (or individuals) who has been checked using criteria such as memory strength, piety, personal behavior, etc.
We have children as young as ten who have memorized the Qur’aan by heart, so its safe to say, memory is not an issue.
As for why did God use man as messengers, simple, it makes no sense to send an angel to teach humans the best way to live as they are in no way the same as us. Thus the example of a good role model is used and even today, people tend to follow their own role models.
Islaam doesn’t go around converting people. All we do is spread the truth, we allow the human being to use his reasoning and wisdom to figure what is right and what isn’t. If he is smart, and chooses the right way (i.e. Islaam), we welcome him with open arms, otherwise they are still our brothers in humanity and we live with them in peace.
2. The requirement to pay a tithe
Any God who cannot afford to support his or her believers in their chosen doctrines must not be a true God worthy of being followed. If God created everything, then God certainly doesn't need his followers to pay his way. Why would God ask us on a date and then make us pick up the tab? False religions can be deftly divined when they start asking you for money.
True Muslims never asking for money. In fact, we have so many charity organizations. And the reality is, Muslims, especially in the middle east, are extremely wealthy. Islaam is in no need for money, as to us, this world is temporary and not worth even a wing of a mosquito!
If you read the scripture, you will see that In fact paradise is full of poor people! So wealth isn’t an issue, but a test, according to us.
3. Being founded by a human prophet
Any God who relies on fallible human beings to speak on his or her behalf is not worthy of being followed. Using a human only leads to different interpretations and understandings, which is why there are no major religions that have not splintered into contradicting congregations. False religions can be quickly culled from the pack when you find out they were created by a human prophet.
I have explained above why we need a human prophet. Plus, the interpretation he gave was that taught to him by God, thus protecting the integrity of the Message.
Islaam has no sects. We have one religion based on the Teaching of the Prophet Muhammad and what was Revealed by God.
Any sects you may see have clearly strayed from this. They either take up new prophets or change the interpretation of text based on their whims and desires.
However, like I said, we have the correct understanding handed down by the scholars and we stick to that understanding.
4. Fear-based decisions
Any God who uses the threat of violence against humans if they don't follow his or her word is not worthy of being followed. The threat of violence removes free choice and creates an inability to know if a follower really loves the God or merely feigns love out of fear of the afterlife. False religions can be immediately identified when they threaten you with eternal torture for ignoring their message
This comment almost sounds like a criminal complaining about the law because he knows he will be punished for breaking it!
I’ll give you an example. Does a parent not tell a child to obey him and not play with fire or they will get burnt? This is the same as what Islaam teaches. God says to worship Him alone and you will be blessed with eternal peace in Paradise. However, if you disobey and cause mischief on earth, your adobe is the fire.
5. Reward-based incentives
Any God who must bribe people to follow him or her is not worthy of being followed. What kind of God needs to rely on the selfish motivations of humans to get them as his or her followers? What kind of God needs to use payoffs to get people to show their adoration? False religions can be overtly outed when they try to entice you to follow their beliefs with promises of rewards and prizes.
Everyday, I am sure this person goes to work and gets paid. Why doesn’t he work for free? Is his manager bribing him to work? No, he will argue that my manager is rewarding me for my work. Likewise, God is not gaining or losing anything. But God is Just and Merciful. If you are good, he will reward you, if you are bad, he will punish you. Where is the bribe there?
Humans are selfish, if this deist has figured that out, then perhaps he should go and see what is happening in the real world!
“In summary, if your religion or faith-based system of beliefs exhibits one or more of these characteristics, you can be sure it is man-made dogma and most certainly is a false religion.”
Thank you for proving (again) that Islaam is the True Religion of God.
Perhaps he should test his ‘deist’ dogma with these points!
nice too nice...what do i need to explain more?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
ok then
the bible says and i qoute
"THY SHALL NOT EAT THE SWINE FLESH"
Coelacanth, Please see your words in above post:
"sisterfatima...faith is blindly embracing something without any reasoning, just like heaven and hell, though not one from your followers have gone nor seen any of it...you just accept that it's real because the book said so."
and further down:
"I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen."
Dear brother,
Can you explain the belief in simple words.
There is no need for confusion at all.
It is showing very clearly that there is lot of common things between bible and islam.so we have to ask and find answeres for following questions.
1.why there is common things in both books?
2.if bible is beleived to say it has similar teachings as quran, then why quran came after that.?
3.whats the purpose of God creating jesus and mohammed?
4.If the God of Jesus and Mohammed is one, then for whom is bible and Quran intended?
sisterfatima: mind repeating your questions? thks anyway :)
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
sisterfatima...faith is blindly embracing something without any reasoning, just like heaven and hell, though not one from your followers have gone nor seen any of it...you just accept that it's real because the book said so. If i put a website or a context from a website, that doesn't mean my faith is based on that. It's called referrence, and not faith. I am reading your book, and i am amazed about how Islam promotes faith, and yet other people interprets it in another way. About the messengers, as Platao mentioned, everyone is a messenger. The important thing about us is that, our God is not Biased, and doesn't favor those few. If i would tell you that God spoke to me, will you have faith on what i'll tell you or you'll use reasoning? Or someone will deliberately deny that i am a messenger of God because i am not in the book? I believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We have no division because we have no organization or doctrine. How can there be division among us when all that we say is there is ONLY One True God and no revealed religions? We have no book, but instead used reasoning and reason out on other peoples reasoning about God. Anyone who believes in One God is a Deist. You just added some politics that's why Religion was born.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
give me a day for analyzing those 5 things your said(copy pasted, YET YOUR FAITH ALSO BASED ON CERTAIN MAN MADE WEBSITS AND BOOKS!)
its the contrary in your diesm , i think.
u are blamimg that others have division, but your people differ about messengers!
diesm is based on reasoning, could you please respond to the reasoning for 5 pillars in islam i have replyed to plato brother?
and still you did'nt accept my challenge to read those verses, all those scientific facts do not have more than one interpretation!, you can verify them with the help of three or more translations, and you can read the commentary of more than three translators, and i am sure you can't find errors or contradictions in it.
"Deism doesn't have followers...the only thing that Platao and i have in common is the belief that "Revealed Religion" doesn't come from God, and there is only One TRUE God.
Imagine the same religions being interpreted in thousands of ways, and yet everyone claimed that their interpretation is correct. That makes division among each and everyone of you."
Right in the spot, of course every Deist is different, beliving God is common, we may even say that all revelated religions base themselves on Deism, the main prob is when the say that someone is the choosen ppl and all others have to follow them, He's not a politic, he loves all the same way because we are all His creations.
Sisterfatima: God's send a messenger from time to time but it's up to us to listen him, God wont allow him to be ambiguous on his replies.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
sisterfatima...deism is not a religion...it's a belief based on reasoning, so everyone will have different understanding but everything is based on the reasoning and wisdom given by the Supreme Being, our Nature God. Deism doesn't have followers...the only thing that Platao and i have in common is the belief that "Revealed Religion" doesn't come from God, and there is only One TRUE God.
Imagine the same religions being interpreted in thousands of ways, and yet everyone claimed that their interpretation is correct. That makes division among each and everyone of you. Is the book that everyone is trying to interpret supposed to be that way? What made you so sure that your interpretation of the book is the correct one?
I am pasting (timtam...another copy-paster here...hehehe) an excerpt from a Deist website on Five Faces of False Religion: http://elroy.net/ehr/falsereligion.html
Without assuming there is an actual 'true' religion, it's safe to argue that all false religions will exhibit one or more of these five manifestations:
1. The requirement to proselytize
Any God who is too powerless to reach his or her creation directly must not be a true God worthy of being followed. Humans are the worst vehicles for broadcasting knowledge when you consider two people who see the same exact event will tell two different stories about it, not to mention when they're asked to tell second and third-hand stories told them by others. False religions are easily exposed when they send out their members to make more followers for their impotent deity.
2. The requirement to pay a tithe
Any God who cannot afford to support his or her believers in their chosen doctrines must not be a true God worthy of being followed. If God created everything, then God certainly doesn't need his followers to pay his way. Why would God ask us on a date and then make us pick up the tab? False religions can be deftly divined when they start asking you for money.
3. Being founded by a human prophet
Any God who relies on fallible human beings to speak on his or her behalf is not worthy of being followed. Using a human only leads to different interpretations and understandings, which is why there are no major religions that have not splintered into contradicting congregations. False religions can be quickly culled from the pack when you find out they were created by a human prophet.
4. Fear-based decisions
Any God who uses the threat of violence against humans if they don't follow his or her word is not worthy of being followed. The threat of violence removes free choice and creates an inability to know if a follower really loves the God or merely feigns love out of fear of the afterlife. False religions can be immediately identified when they threaten you with eternal torture for ignoring their message.
5. Reward-based incentives
Any God who must bribe people to follow him or her is not worthy of being followed. What kind of God needs to rely on the selfish motivations of humans to get them as his or her followers? What kind of God needs to use payoffs to get people to show their adoration? False religions can be overtly outed when they try to entice you to follow their beliefs with promises of rewards and prizes.
In summary, if your religion or faith-based system of beliefs exhibits one or more of these characteristics, you can be sure it is man-made dogma and most certainly is a false religion.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
ok u dont belive profets, its your right and choice to belive, but alhamdulillah u said muhammed, jesus, moses as messengers of Allah!, that's why i said so.
about Nostrodamus
If you actually read anything nostradamus has said, you will see its very vague and majority of the time it's just garbage.ALL the prophesis of the Prophets have and will come true, and there is not one error in them. and however, we believe the messengers u said are our prophets.
As for how nostradamus could have got some predictions right, this is what we studied the 'the maximum possibility of appearance" in mathematics, that's tomarrow will rain, or not, may be or may not, perhaps or sometimes!!!
so one pillar only u touched, the rest may accomplish similar logic right???(perhaps diesm does'nt support it, but SCIENCE support it)
and as a muslim, i have explianed the scientific miracles and testimonials of so many scientist here to prove that our revealtion is the word of GOD. if its written by third person or human brains, sure we can find scientific errors, and your friend diest brother coelacath said "i am fascinated to read it and i comment u to challenge me to refer those qur'an verses u said".
here is the logic reasoning over!!!
so u can't give me verses from bible for supporting the issues we discussed here?
ok let me to conclude,
1)about pork and circumcission, u said they are obselete laws and abolished. but i have qouted the below verse from bible against to your argument, yet u did'nt respond(plz ask a scholar)
he was VERY clear that he WASNT here to CHANGE the LAW of MOSES (peace be upon him)!
“17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” [Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)]
2)rest u said we both are almost same unlike other christians i have seen in my life except 3 things
u explained 'sinless' here,we are promised the ‘kingdom of God’ as long as we accept Jesus. we belive our salvation is through following the commandments, work righteous, and repentence.
and u agreed with me in your last post, alhamdulillah.
the 2 things remaining are "son of God" and "crucification".
we did'nt discussed about crucification, but let me start here.
"son of GOD"
we muslims belive the virgin birth of Jesus without a father was not any more supernatural than the creation of Adam without a father or mother. The Qur'an says:And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of God, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of God. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old.. God (Himself) opposed them. How perverse are they!"(9:30)
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (112:3)
and u can qoute verses from bible for supporting the "son of GOD", but Do you know how many times the words 'Son Of God' are used in the bible???
For example:
38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. [Luke 3:38 (New International Version)]
Angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament. Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Psalms 29:1; 89:6. Daniel 3:25 Hebrews 1:5 "You are my Son; today I have begotten you." Psalms 2:7 David is stating what God has proclaimed regarding David's relationship to God "I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: he said to me, 'you are my Son; this day have I begotten you."
crucification
The Glorious Quran says. "That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-" (Quran 4:157)
and we belive jesus(pbh)is living and he will return insha allah
and about bible
Did Jesus bear his own cross?
* Yes (John 19:17)
* No (Matthew 27:31-32)
brother qureshi, i have sent the ayats and hadeeds u want as message, plz check it!
Dear SisterFatima, i'm a deist who was blessed with the power of talking with other spirits, every single spirit is a God's messenger, just that only the most perfect ones have the ability to understand God's will or ideas. Don't confuse messenger with profets ( Nostrodamus could be considered a profet but not a God's messenger ).
"2)fixed timely prayer is one of the pillars in Islam.
Reasoning for your people:-u people pray to one GOD, and its scientifically proved a GOD'spot in brain, and time fixed prayer improve the spiritual health of mind what is called "Yoga""
Sorry but Yoga isn't related to Deism, it's a way that will allow you to meditate about everything.
The main thing about Deism is that we don't belive in "Revelations" and in despotic "God", by reasoning, you must admit that we have no way to demonstrate that the "Revelation Books" are the word of God. All were written by 3rd persons and not by the messengers personnally.
Of course that Deism is similar to any of the revelated religions, the difference is just that we don't belive in revelations or profets.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
we never said they are not our messengers, infact your diest friend coelacanth brother said so. and i wonder you are a diest and yet belive in messengers, alhamdulillah
so diesm differ among its followers??
we belive our revealation book Qur'an is the word of GOD, and We believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) was revealed the Injeel (Gospels). And Musa (peace be upon him) got the Tawrah (Torah), together they are known as the bible, according to Christians. and about BIBLE,in Nicea it was altered to the form it is today and ever so often, we get new versions out. If you read what the New International version says about the King James Version, you will be shocked! they have so many versions of their own! Jehovah witnesses have their own, Catholics have their own, Protestants have their own, i have explained it.
and in our da'wa workshop here, we have to pass a module paper named "reasoning islam" for winning an unit. And i am amazed to see diesm is a "half-islam"
let me explain,
1) u people believe in ONE GOD-(the half of witness:kalimatu shahada in islam)
[and infact you belive Muhammed(pbh)as a messenger, so u fulfill witness!)
2)fixed timely prayer is one of the pillars in Islam.
Reasoning for your people:-u people pray to one GOD, and its scientifically proved a GOD'spot in brain, and time fixed prayer improve the spiritual health of mind what is called "Yoga"
3)Fasting-it also compulsory among the 5 pillars in islam.
Reasoning for your people:-fasting has so many benefits to health and spirit, which is also supported by science.
4)Give charity to poor-an obligation to every muslim.
Reasoning for your people:-this is a humanity related thing, and the base of mankind feed the poor!i hope your people are not against to it.
5)Hajj pilmigrage-for muslim who have health.(so that he can earn)
Reasoning for your people:-its a salavation trip, an amazing tour with 35 lakh people all around the world with uniform white dress and same voice, proclaim the unity of mankind, remembering the Holy prophet Abraham(pbh) whose name is mentioned in sematic faiths, and if return back, like a new born baby!
the 5 pillars over, the reasoning islam also over.
brother timtan,
who copy pasted?
if u r aiming me, then produce the proof that i copy pasted.
if u can't then lets come to discuss about budhism.
did u see i am copy pasting?
what is your problem here?
why you are so agressive?(do your faith teach to be agressive against christians and muslims?)
if no, then follow your good faith!
no one is here to mind or care you!
lol timtan
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Dear Brothers from all beliefs/faiths:
Like i stated in this post previouslly, all revealed books have shown contradictions, but this doesn't mean that Mohammed, Jesus or Moses weren't God messengers, as we all know, the "revelation Books" weren't written by any of them but by their followers/disciples or companions, and that maybe the main reason why we found contraditions in all 3 books.
bading ako: lol, funny joke
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
where i said less does mean right, my answer is same as u said about catholics, those who dont follow what is written in scripture is out of the faith simply. But i want to know about what is written in your scripture that i have asked a few questians, plz give me answer because i never read the things u said in bible that's why. i want verses for supporting your arguments about your doctrine. i have explained our salavation with the help of Qur'an, (its your right to belive in your faith and my right is to believe in my faith as Holy Qur'an said "your religion is yours and my religion is mine")here what i said are written in my scripture i have admitted it.and whatever i said about bible are supported by bible verses. so its your duty to admit those bible verses for supporting your dictrine. then only i can accept those are the teachings of Jesus or the word of GOD.
brother Qureshi,
i am not taking verse out of context, i have said to refer some bible verses, but still u r repeating the same and forcing me to again discuss about it.i have made a vow to solomon that i will not use "corruption' before any christian. this is what i learnt from this discussion. but i will use the word "amend" because its a truth known by all.
and about Qur'an verses, its very clear for a knowledged like u, i dont know why u r responding like that. may be u did'nt read it.
yes , believers follow holy books, Allah said about those true followers smell the fragrance of Jannah and almighty said many things about jews and christians in al baqarah, aali imran and maaeda about the mentioned 5 things and alot of other how they became disbelivers, dont u read? the qur'an verses are obvious, everyone can understand so i am stern in my answers, and whatever i said about bible is truth bibliography from bible itself, christian authentic sources, independent university papers, holy Qur'an and my countless dearest christian frnds in kerala, minnesota, chicago, tornado, tamilnadu, auckland, and moscow who i met throughout my small life. i console here that i did nothing against any faith, all those i have said here are supported by priests and scholors in open stage discussions and so many conventions i have attended. i never used "anti" sources against any belief, i have no need for it,i did'nt break or modify any sentences, so plz stop false accusations against me without reading the pure referernces which i have given from bible and Qur'an, i am not here for winning or losing a debate, still i am stern in my answers that christians are well aware about their book than YOU. if u want i will discuss, but honestly i dont like to discuss. all those i have written here for your sake only.
unless you can put into practice what is written in your book, then how can you claim you are good. You admitted that what was written is not what is practiced. You said what is written is marry one and yet multi-marriage is till "rampant". You said less in Islam, less doesn't make it right?
And if you point finger to Catholics or Protestants as Christians, that is where you are wrong. The spelling is already different (Catholics and Christians or Protestants). The belief is different, real Christians believe Christ is man and not God. Christians don't believe in Idols but they do. So if you are saying that since their practice is not what is written, the you can conclude that they are away from Christianity as you are saying those who practice multi-marriage and divorce with re-marry and child marriage are out of Islam.
I am not the Christian that you see in Catholics or Protestants. I am a true Christian, I believe in One God, One Savior and Mediator between man and God, our Lord Jesus Christ. I don't worship Idols or saints or any man-made sculpture. I believe the Bible is the sole source of salvation of mankind. I believe Christ as the begotten Son of God, although man in nature but God showered with many special characteristics.
Don't boast of the magnitude in numbers of Muslims and Catholics and Protestants and other world religions. It is written, the number of those who will suffer in hell is like the sand on sealine. Not because you are kind or wealthy or intelligent, you will be saved comes judgment day. It is who follows His commandments as written in the holy book.
What is "perceived" by man as good may not be actually what God commanded. God works in mysterious as it seem to man but actually so simple if man only knows how to refrain from doing what he wants but what God wants.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
You are displying my comments in a wrong way, "Allah says in Holy Qura'an "Moomenoon belive in Allah's books"
IT IS NOT MENTIONED "BOOK", IT IS SPECIFIED AS "BOOKS"....O.K.
I wrote that...."You are the one who claim all other books (BIBLE COLLECTION OF BOOKS) as corrupted".....Even Qura'an or Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) never raised such cliam/words......
Nothing else........I told you earlier as well.....don't break & modify the sentences, verses to conclude whatever you want........keep them as they are!!!!!!
As per your claim about BIBLE & as you said Christians know about it.....then it raises other questions....which I don't wanna discuss any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JUST READ R.S.V 1952 BIBLE, its not a media claim, its a truth known by all, may be u dont know it before, u can ask your christian frnds, no one will deny it,
do not add my name with malabari as a pair, check the posts i have entered here to answer coelacanth brother, the discussion twisted by dmighty solomon and he called your religion is not pro GOD that's why i admitted the flaws in his doctrine which he used to justfy other faiths. and plz note he did'nt deny my claims, as i said i have no need to search in web to find faults, may be u did so.
all i have learnt from the crash online course in biblical doctrate from the university of tornadao, canada, and i said my colleagues are missionaries from chicago and alberta. and a group of nuns in my class are the doubt clearing sources for me. so i belive its a truth i have learnt from authentic christian sources, i dont like "ANTI", i know there are false propogenda for evey thing. i belive Bible WAS the word of GOD. but u proved clearly your ignorance in bible books and written history. try to know Bible is not a single revealation book like qur'an. it revealed to jesus's apostles, and itself proved it amended . i have qoute 2 verses from bible and i can qoute some more. but i said i fear about my promise here.
so u questianed one holy Book's verse with practical example, and what is the logic in declining another book's facts? i wonder what is your problem here? i have given all the details and i can give some more. i think u did'nt read it or did'nt understand. plz ask a christian frnd.if u have a bible in room now, check the below verse right now and ask your christian frnd about a practical example
II SAMUEL-CHAPTER 11 VERSE 2 TO 5
II SAMUEL-CHAPTER 13 VERSE 1 TO 14
GENESIS 19 VERSES 30 TO 38
Numbers 31:35-40
Numbers 31:17-18
"Billions of People are following a corrupted book, knowingly."
yes they know about their book more than u, they know about king constantine, they know nicea council, they know apostle paul's gospel, they know 20 gospels which are not included in bible with the gospel of barnabas,they know The deciples of Jesus, they know catholics added a Few other writings of The history of the Roman empire and Guidlines set by the Catholic Monarch, they know Apocrypha added to the Greek version of the Septuagint were only in a general way accounted as books suitable for church reading, they know about canons they know the things very clear than you
"The Qura'anic references you have given don't mention anywhere "BIBLE IS CORRUPTED"."
brother qureshi, i have given 4 verses to cover this issue, everyone can understand it, its a simple conclusion here, plz read it once. Qur'an refuted crucification, sinless, son of GOD, trinity,and MONASTICISM.
just note todays bible supports all the 5 things mentioned above. this is the clear proof u asked.
Allah said "WE entrusted its protection in their hands
"they follow guesswork
"they did'nt kill him or crucified (Allah saved Jesus(pbh)
"dont say trinity
"they invented, WE did'nt prescribe it
"Jesus son of marry, not begotten son
the above are clear proofs u want!
did u checked below. thses are not anti christian sources, these are christian sources which our colleaguse used to study the versions of Bible. try to know bible is not unique for every christian as i said catholics have more number of books than protostants, perhaps u dont know it, ask a christian frnd about it, i am not using the word "corruption", http://www.av1611.or...
http://www.av1611.or...
VERSES REMOVED
http://www.av1611.or...
WORDS REMOVED
look here one simple difference in the meaning totally changed below.
Luke 24:46 (New International Version)
He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
Luke 24:46 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
I will send you what the Father has promised to give you. So wait in the city of Jerusalem until you have been given power from God.'
""I suggest you must go for the study of really Authentic scripture to its full length not partial......""
i already said i dont need to refer "anti" as u said UNAUTHENTIC & MISLEADING SCRIPT;, i am not a person like that.
i am following the suggesion u mentioned from my 5th STD, i am curiouse to read about it, i have a degree in it from distant education now. also have different versions, different transaltion, different bible softwares, i have attended almost all open stage discussions,conventions with my fellow christian frnds here. my sources are pure christian sources and i too hate false propagation againts any faith as u mentioned.
""You are just trying to create your own conclusion by joining different topics together. As per my studies of religion.....we should not make any assumption or claim by our-selves unless & untill it is not specified in that religious book in its own words. """
i said i dont follow assumption, again plz dont make false accusation against me, i dont have any need to disparage other books, the discussion diverted to here by dmighty solomon and infact u too.i have given clear proofs from bible itself, have u read the verses from jeramiah and deutrimony i have given when u asked me first.
about polygamy i and bro nice too nice cleared, i am not taliking about this era, in the era of Qur'an revealtion, its obvious and Qur'an limited its number and ordered to marry only one if u fear. Almighty knows about the practical man u asked, that's why HE said "its very difficult to be just between them" and "if ye fear, then "ONLY ONE", brother Qureshi, your GOD ALLAH is very omnipotent and HE answered your practical example thruogh HIS book Holy Qur'an 1400 years ago.
and u are very fearless while asking about Qur'an and very cunning while asking about Bible, if u are independent u have respect both the books as well.
""You are claiming that Qura'an is telling that Believers (Mo'omenoon) believe in the Books which are corrupted.""
naudubillah, where i said?
Allah assured the protection of Qur'an in it. dont u know, and i have given 4 verses about their disbelieving, plz read Qur'an about christians and jews, Allah answered your worthy Quetians 1400 years ago, i comment u to read translation of Al baqarah and ali imran, al maaida fully in your language, Allah covered all of your doubts in HIS Holy BOOK.
brother qureshi, i am living in trivandrum kerala india in a thickly populated area of catholic christians, our neighbors and upstair and downstair flat owners all are christians, my classmates are nuns, my diploma college is a christian management, and now in my part time evening college(for engineering degree)also i have countless christian frnds, in my office, the fellow workers also christians more than hindus, there is white church just infront of my home where i can see idol worship of marry, they too follow bible, i am a da'wa worker and to invite other people is my duty as per Qur'an, i have no need to show others faults which i have learnt from themselves, here first i can hear subahi adaan and church bells, so plz dont make wrong identity against me that i am an anti christian, in this eid ul adha also, we invited them to have a warm breakfast with us after our eid prayer in stadium ground which is common for hindus, christians and muslims, and while i was studying diploma, my hostel room mate is knanaya christian sister, i used to read her bible too which also different from others bibles, we sleep and eat together and used to attend their new years eves for preaching our faiths. so the things i have learnt all are from christian belivers and their authentic books, so plz dont say i am propagating false against any faith. i have no need for it!
"We are born on our GOD's designed TIME and SPACE... live life with good sense to the fullest."
Wowowwow !!! keep cool brothers(Malabari,formatted soul and Nathan)....cease fire. You are only giving justice and perhaps TRUTH to the claim of the Communists and the non-believers that "RELIGION IS NOTHING BUT A POISON". That poison makes us devided and initiates HATRED as what is happening now among yourselves. I believe the only antidote to that POISON is our GOD's LOVE and FORGIVING - let's all share the much needed respect to one's belief, the understanding (eyes and ears)to someone's shortcomings and the coolness of everyone's SMILE & warmth embrace/handshake for all the children of what we called....OMNIPOTENT-OMNIPRESENT-OMNISCIENT "GOD".
I am fine.....Alhamdulillah. Eid Mubarik to you.
I have gone through the link.....it is dated Oct. 05, 2005......would you please let me know what happened after this............if this NEWS was effective or authentic.....now we are in Dec/2008 what results (within 3 years) did this NEWS generated???????????????or was it a part of Political conspiracy between X & Y (I don't like to specify the names)??????????????
Such NEWS against every religion are common.....Do you think that Islam is not victimized by such media....."Do you believe on such NEWS & researches once they say something against Islam???" & "If you don't believe such negative propoganda against Islam by such media......then,,, why do you believe once it is against Bible or any other religion............
I believe you are based on philosophy which is too biased.
And I am much surprized that....you keep such NEWS as references to convence the people......My dear do you have any reference that Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H) & Sahaba Kiram.....anywhere mentioned or claimed that "BIBLE IS CORRUPTED", while they were preaching Islam. If yes provide me the reference....
How are you.! i Was bzy with EID holidays, with respect to your threads, plz chk
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece
Hope diz will answer ur qstn....
still more works to be finishd so will be back soooooon
My belated EID MUBARACK to all QL members
Malabari will be back soooooooN till that take care
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
As far as the knowledge concern............I would like to specify your (you & Malbari)malpractise (due to very superficial knowledge & biased philosophy) as follows;
1) First of all you tried to say that "When you follow Biblical rules, people say that you are Muslim".
2) Then by different ways you tried to prove that....
3) But when the subject was prolonged.....it exposed your inner feelings towards Bible.
4) What are you trying to do??????.......first praising Bible keeping all negative feelings (against Bible) in your heart........then ultimately trying to prove that "BIBLE IS CORRUPTED".........I do't want to say any thing more than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!should be understood
1) The Qura'anic references you have given don't mention anywhere "BIBLE IS CORRUPTED".
2) You are just trying to create your own conclusion by joining different topics together. As per my studies of religion.....we should not make any assumption or claim by our-selves unless & untill it is not specified in that religious book in its own words.
3) You again mentioned the practical example about polygamy in African tribes, Yes I didn't accept & don't accept because from very begining I asked for a practical example of a common man......an example from African tribes having 20 wives could be a common man for anasfk or you but I don't consider him a common man of this era.
4) Qura'an says; Surah Baqarah Verse 285
[The messanger (Muhammed P.B.U.H) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, HIS BOOKS & His Messangers. (They say) "We make no distiction between one another of His Messangers". - and they say, "we hear & obey. (We seek) Your forgiveness, our Lord and to You is the return (of all)].
5) You are claiming that Qura'an is telling that Believers (Mo'omenoon) believe in the Books which are corrupted.
6) Billions of People are following a corrupted book, knowingly.....What do you want to say????????????
I suggest you must go for the study of really Authentic scripture to its full length not partial......
UNAUTHENTIC & MISLEADING SCRIPT;
Above script is available against every religious book (Bible, Quran, Geta etc,etc)........
you follow and accept claims & history from such scripts for Bible......what about the script against Qura'an, definately you don't accept that...
I feel sorry if you use references from such script for preaching & proving your statements.
Such philosophy as of your's arises at initial stage, take my comments positively......you will realize once you go further deep in studies.
All the best..
u want proofs, i first i gave independent sources, but u did'nt accept it so i have given christian sources and qur'an verse as u asked. i think u r asking short sentences may be due to your ignorance in this issues, that's why i said to ask a christian frnd about all i said, he will openly accept all because all those are truth not bashing.
honestly, i feel that perhaps u have not much knowledge about bible books and its written history which are very clear for christian brothers and sisters.that's why u are responding like that. and i think u remember u asked a practical example for polygamy in Qur'an, when bro anasfk answered and i said about african remote tribes,and the era of revealation of Qur'an, u did'nt satisfy about it, so u questianed God's word? and i wonder why do u unnecessarly reject a fact about bible with all those proofs?if u have a bible in room now, check the below verse right now and ask your christian frnd about a practical example
II SAMUEL-CHAPTER 11 VERSE 2 TO 5
II SAMUEL-CHAPTER 13 VERSE 1 TO 14
GENESIS 19 VERSES 30 TO 38
Numbers 31:35-40
Numbers 31:17-18
that Qur'an verses i have given in my last post are enough for u to understand, do u know what is trinity in christainity?
Coming to the belief of trinity, the Qur'an refutes it
"and say not, "Three". Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be it from His glory that He should have a son; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; and Allah is sufficient for a Protector." (4:171)
They have truly disbelieved those who say God is one of a trinity" Surah 5:73
read the 3 verses from Holy Qur'an in my last post as u asked proofs from Qur'an.(that is three is enough to prove it/b>
and again i dont want to discuss about it, its a truth well known by all, if u dont know it does'nt mean its false news, but my last two posts are university papers for biblical research students in doctrate, no one will deny it, no one can refute it, however they all are well aware about it.
amazing! and good to know that people are concoius about religion.
"Born optimist nothing can keep me too low for so long"
dmigtysolomon still there? He never answers my questions.....
dear sister fatima,please let us conveance us with in short line sentance about the discussing topic instead of long text.
"Buddhist live a simple life with a simple doctrine, but will God DAMN them because they never joined your religions? If not, then what's the use of religion?"
You are right logically colecanth. but..
I want windows why you offer me macintosh?
A religion is a way of life. kids tend to follow the religion of their parents. I personally choose Islam for my kids because I think its my responsiblility to give them the best as per my knowledge. rest is their will when they grow up.
i am so sorry again, i just want to answer qureshi brother, after reading just leave it, i dont like to discuss about it.
am so sorry again, i just want to answer qureshi brother, after reading just leave it, i dont like to discuss about it.
brother qureshi,
i am not refering anti christainity books,i have no need for it, all i said about nicea council and king constantine are in written history, not garbage stuffs, that's why i said. and i think u have no ideas about authors of Gospels, they are written by apostles of Jesus, and i said why the mentioned 20 of books are not included may be due to unknown or assumed authors.all i have said may be new things for u but the facts are well known by christians, i am saying it because of my christian frnds in college and i have learnt all from nun sisters in class rooms. JUST READ R.S.V 1952 BIBLE, its not a media claim, its a truth known by all, may be u dont know it before, u can ask your christian frnds, no one will deny it,
ok u want Qur'an reference, sure i will give it!
Surah 5:44. It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah.s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah.s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
so we see that as a test God gave to the jewish rabbis, He entrusted the protection of His book in there hands. which they failed to do.
The Glorious Quran says.
"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-" (Quran 4:157)
Conjecture i.e Guesswork.
The above Quranic verse says that whoever differs in the matter of crucifixion and agrees that Christ (pbuh) was crucified are actually following conjecture.
brother qureshi one more evidence from the Quran
[057:027] Then WE caused Our Messengers to follow in their footsteps; and WE caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow them, and WE gave him the Gospel. And WE put compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him. And MONASTICISM they INVENTED - WE did NOT prescribe it for them - for the seeking of ALLAH's pleasure; but they observed it not as it should be observed. Yet WE gave those of them, who believed, their due reward, but many of them are rebellious
Proof for monasticism in the Bible
1 Corinthians 7:1 "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry."
i have asked a questian to my univerity collegue who is a protastant christian, my Q is below
Catholic
Coptic
Protastant
Ethopic?
DID HOLY GHOST INSPIRED DIFFERENT PPL DIFFERENTLY???
i am copying his words without any editting, all of my christian frnds can understand it well than brother qureshi.
he(his name jacob)said:
THE HOLY SPIRIT inspired only one bible and its is not the protestant or catholic.
the The Holy bible which contains the old testments (thora , book of the prophets and sacred writings ) and the New Testment Paul and The deciples of Jesus
Later in history Catholics added a Few other writings of The history of the Roman empire and Guidlines set by the Catholic Monarch in order to fuillfill their selfish ends to rule
wohever catholics were forbided to read the Catholic Bible as they concidered it Holy and is not avaliable till recent times ,
The Bible which was complied by the early christians before the fall of jersulame was adopted by the church
later catholics grew powerful they weakened by faith fell into worldly lust fr power later catholics has added 7 extra cannon to their Bible to justifi their stand , out of fear that ppl whould know the fact of christianity faith against idols catholics prohibited , the members of the catholic church from reading the Bible , thats why even todaymost catholics themselves are unaware of a catholic bible
since the other churches were opposes to the addition of extra canon and adaption of idols into churches they were consider as protestants against the catholic church
The Bible without the extra canon came to be known as the protestant Bible
The Jewish canon, or the Hebrew Bible, was universally received, while the Apocrypha added to the Greek version of the Septuagint were only in a general way accounted as books suitable for church reading, and thus as a middle class between canonical and strictly apocryphal (pseudonymous) writings. And justly; for those books, while they have great historical value, and fill the gap between the Old Testament and the New, all originated after the cessation of prophecy, and they cannot therefore be regarded as inspired, nor are they ever cited by Christ or the apostles.
i think no more proof i have to give bcoz, the above wordz are from my protastant frnd in the doctrate course of biblical studies i have mentioned in my previous post, no one can refute because all the above facts are well known by christians.
http://www.av1611.org/biblecom.html
http://www.av1611.org/biblevs.html
VERSES REMOVED
http://www.av1611.org/biblewrd.html
WORDS REMOVED
look here one simple difference in the meaning totally changed below.
Luke 24:46 (New International Version)
He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
Luke 24:46 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
I will send you what the Father has promised to give you. So wait in the city of Jerusalem until you have been given power from God.'
dear all brothers and sisters,i am so sorry for discussing this issue, plz leave this post, i have only aimed to answer brother qureshi,
brother qureshi, i have many more thing to qoute about this issue, but i fear that it may hurt anyone, so plz stop asking about it again and again, i would like to conclude the posts about bible as i vowed in one of my previous posts and apologized that i will not repeat it, so plz dont push me to break my promise, plz.
wasalaam brother
brother timtan,
i was answering brother qureshi and dmighty solomon in my last post, both of them have total 3 posts, so logically my post will elongate because i used to type while disconnecting the BB and after completing i used to post it, u can check all of my long posts, the reason is i cannot login from office and evening college usually. so i used to save time by login once in a day from home and free hrs.
dmigtysolomon, I hsve a doubt. Is it allowed idol worship in Christianity?
Your words: In Quran, to each his own meaning each person answers for his own sin. No father will be punish for the sins of the child etc, etc. (as I understand your previous posts, sisterfatima. I don't know if it iswritten in Quran that all people commits sins, so eerybody is destined to hell, who will be saved comes judgment day? Kind people? Philanthropists? People who gave their lives to others? Heroes? Who?
It is right. If you commit sin, you will be punished. whoever commit sins, he will be punished until he realise the mistake and repent sincerely. The Almighty is Very Merciful. He is the last judge. Without HIS mercy no one will enter into the Paradise. Muslim is accepting not only Prophet Muhammed (SAW) but all the Messengers sent by Almighty including Isa (AS). Muslim did not deny that Prophet Isa (AS)is alive and will return to the world at the end and will rule the world in the way Almighty decided. But we do not believe that Isa(AS) has taken all the sins committed by the human and thus the sinner will be saved by Isa (AS) on the day of judgement. As a muslim, I believe that no one will be spared for his sins until he repent sincerely to Almighty not to His Messengers.
As far as divorce and polygamy is allowed in islam to protect the society by preventing adultery, extramarital and immoral activities, muslim doesn't care about your comment as we follow Qur'an.
Whatever you have commented, I cannot agree on that at all....unless & until it is not supported by Qura'anic verses or Hadith Prophet Muhammed (P.B.U.H).
I am much surprised you are referring to Britannica Encyclopedia, Discovery Channel, etc, etc.....how come????????Do you know what such media is propagating against Islam as well.
That's why I have been telling if you believe on something then belive it all not partial (Partial=whatever you like) & leave the part whatever you don't like. Do you believe in such human written scripts against religion even ours or those scientific channels who can deny their own old theories and promote their new theoris frequently.
No further coments, please give references according to Islam or otherwise there are uncountable claims against every religion & every religious book on Internet and several Books written by non-believers......if you go for such references & beieve on them, you will be in confused about every religion even your's.....
brother qureshi
sorry to say, i have to remind your the below facts for your argument sake.
i am not talking about the translations of bible, i know they may varry, i am talking about the root source bibles in hebrew(arbani), aramic, suriyani and greek, u can download the books from google itself. i will not use the word "currption" as i acknowledged, but i have to say as replay to your post,u have to read about the history of Bible, its not a hidden truth, u can read about king constantine and nicea council from encarta,britanica of encyclopedia, they are very authentic source than wikipedia. i am not saying about the difference in translations, i am saying about the different in number of verses of a book, different in number of books(eg:catholics have more number of chapters than protostants) and verses removed out of context, verses changed meanings, verses added and editted,almost a kind of subtraction and addition, i am doing an online cource on bible from the university of tornado, canada, and passed many modules of it and won certificates, my collegues are missionaries from university of chicago and alberta, and i can read their thesis report with power point seminar presentation,all are independent proofs including the gospel of barnabas also i have so many catholic frnds here and nuns, they openly accepted it, its not a garbage, i have got a chance to know many facts including davinchi code issue with them. they are well aware about the "unknown" authers or assumed authers, for example i have asked some 20 books which are not included there in the bible, i wonder why that books are not included, any scale or crieteria for adding books? did jesus(pbh)teach it?i dont know, and my protastant frnds claim "they are the true christians" just like brother dmighty solomon, but when i ask something from bible, they used to qoute me the verse number and book name unlike brother dmighty solomon. just take a NIV 1950 published bible(which is now here in my table)and buy a new bible of same version, u can find so many differences.One open stage discussion convention, 2 hebrew bibles of two christian brothers laptop differed!just infront of camera.this is not a new issue,i belive Bible WAS the word of GOD, but christians failed to preserve it perfectly for the latest people.and about traslsation, the "periclitus" equivalent in hebrew bible can be translated to arabic as "muhammed",.take an another example, the qur'an in my home, in your home, the first printed copy of usman and oldest copies in egypt library, Qur'an printed in india before 1938(tarjjuma by our freedom struggler abul kalam azad and tranlsations with pure arabic sources of A yousuf ali after 1950s and all copies publishing from madeena university are exactly same amazingly.i just wished to remind u, just leave it, i dont like to discuss about it because all of my christian brothers and sisters well aware about it.
brother dmighty solomon
we dont believe our laws are obselete, we believe our laws are issued by GOD for HIS latest people, i have given some testimonials to prove its the word of GOD.
"we don't recognize Prophet Mohammad because we don't recognize Quran."
this is what jews said when jesus came. In kerala our ancestors are not muslims(hindus), king cheraman perumal embraced islam in the life time prophet Muhammed, and though kerala, islam entered into india.
"We can never be the same because, yes you are right, But you are entitled to your belief as I am for my belief."
but we have 2 million truth seekers every year all around the world that's why islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, most of them are christians from west and australia.
"I can not quote you verses because I am not familiar with verses but with God's words."
i want verses surely, them only i accept those u said are the teachings of Jesus or word of GOD, if u are not familiar with verses, u can ask other frnds or scholors, anyway produce the verses for each of your argument about the mentioned issues, if u can't qoute means that laws are nowhere in your holy book!
about your sinner claim, i have asked a Q about it, u can check my previous posts,
i dont know to whome u are blaming "u are not practising what is written in Qur'an", maybe u did'nt meet a good muslim in your life. but me and the muslims around here are very submissive to islam, so i can't say they are wrong followers. the world discovery channel telecasted "routes of islam", and it says that the only one faith wich have more number followers than any other religion who are practising according to their holy book is islam, one and only.
and i openly agreed that there are some wrong followers who are responsible for their own actions,(i said less number) just like the car example i have given. we have answered it that The one who doesn't follow the Teaching of Islam is already out of Islam. No one has to expel him. One more thing, Islam is not a society or union to expel some one. It is a way of life and the one who don't follow is already away from the system. and the one who disobey the teachings of GOD is punished by GOD.
about slavation in islam also i have explained here(it seems that u did'nt read my posts, is'nt it?)ok i will again give it.
The bible says:
“The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him…” [Ezekiel 18:20 NIV]
and the Qur'aan says:
"Or is he not informed with what is in the Pages (Scripture) of Mûsa (Moses), And of Ibrâhim (Abraham) who fulfilled (or conveyed) all that (what Allâh ordered him to do or convey), That no burdened person (with sins) shall bear the burden (sins) of another, And that man can have nothing but what he does (good or bad), And that his deeds will be seen," (An-Najm 53:36 - 40)
Matthew 19:16-17 and Mark 10:18 which says :
"One came onto him [Jesus] and asked him 'Good master what good deeds shall I do to have eternal life'
Jesus replies 'Why do you call me good for there is none good but one and that is God. and to have eternal life, keep the commandments'".
Well the main belief of christians is you simply believe in Jesus as your saviour and you will reach paradise. But Jesus told people to follow him and his teachings to reach paradise.
Sura Asr 103:1-3 from Quran :
"By (the token of time) through ages. Verily mankind is in loss. Except such as have faith, adn do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of truth, and of patience and constancy."
This sura gives the criteria to reach paradise. You need to fulfill all these four criteria to reach paradise. any one of them missing, you will not reach paradise. First one is that you need to have faith. then you need to do rightoeus deeds. Then you need to invite people towards truth.And then you need to invite people towards patience and perceverence.
According to Bible keeping the Law is must for Salvation. See what Jesus said;
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.{Matthew 5:20}
Same is testified by James, see the following of his words recorded in the Bible;
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"{James 2:14}
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."{James 2:17}
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."{James 2:24}
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.{Matthew 19:16-17}
So SALAVATION according to bible depends only KEEPING THE COMMNADMENTS and NOT MERELY A BELIEF.
so according to bible to get eternal salvation, we have to follow the commandments of jesus, NOT JUST HAVE FAITH, BUT TO FOLLOW IT,
To show that you love someone, you need to be obedient to them. Me muslims follow Jesus more than Christian themselves.
"Verily those who believed, and those of the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whoever believed in God and the Last Day, and worked righteousness - no fear shall be upon them, nor shall they grieve." [Holy Qur'an 5:69]
and brother dmighty solomon if u r a true christian, worked righteousness, believed in God and the Last Day, we will meet in jannah(paradise), heaven insha allah!
wasalaam brother, love u alot!!!
An atheist was walking through the woods. 'What majestic trees!' 'What powerful rivers!' 'What beautiful animals!' He said to himself.
As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charging towards him.
He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing in on him. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer. He tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw that the bear was right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw and raising his right paw to strike him.
At that instant the Atheist cried out, 'Oh my God!'Time Stopped. The bear froze. The forest was silent.
As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky. 'You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don't exist, and even credit creation to cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?'
The atheist looked directly into the light and said, 'It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a
Christian now, but perhaps you could make the BEAR a Christian?'
'Very Well,' said the voice.
The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:
'Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen.'
why can't you practice what is written in Quran. Quran says, marry only one, and yet many marry more than one.
Quran says respect others belief and religion, but you don't allow others like us to practice our congregational worship service.
You will say that many are cultural in nature, does it means that cultural thing is above God's law?
By the way, the child marriage involve an Imam, as it's been discussed here in QL. So this Muslim is already "out of Islam" as you mentioned above, why is it that he is still recognized as Imam.
In Quran, to each his own meaning each person answers for his own sin. No father will be punish for the sins of the child etc, etc. (as I understand your previous posts, sisterfatima. I don't know if it iswritten in Quran that all people commits sins, so eerybody is destined to hell, who will be saved comes judgment day? Kind people? Philanthropists? People who gave their lives to others? Heroes? Who?
In our religion, we don't practice divorce, multi-mariage, child or underage marriage. circumcisionis not a requirement for membership. Veil is not compulsory, we preached for modest and conservative attire for all members specially during worship services. We have only one God, the Father in heaven, Christ is mediator between man and God so all our prayers are course thru Him to reach the Father. We honor Jesus as our Savior and Lord. Jesus is man and not God but a man who God is very pleased. We believe Jesus is now sitting at the right of His Father, the only true God. Until now that Jesus is in heaven, he is still a man and not God.
We believe that every time God's people shy away from Him, or stay away from His teachings, God always appoint His follower who will serve Him the right way. And in these last days, the Christian era, He appointed His Son as Savior of the chosen people that will be saved comes judgment day. And contrary to a popular belief, Christ did not die for the whole mankind but for the church He founded during His time and resurrected thru prophesies in these last days thru a prophesied last Messenger who will re-established the same church Christ founded centuries ago.
and YES, we respect all other beliefs and let them practice FREELY their beliefs as what good human being should do
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
when did I say that Abraham and Solomon marrying more than one is against God's will. During their time, God's have His ways and will. But since you don't believe that there are new laws now that we are in the Christian era, you are basing your beliefs on some obsolete laws.
If you honestly believe on Jesus, Jesus has taught how to be saved comes judgment day.
We can never be the same because, yes you are right, we don't recognize Prophet Mohammad because we don't recognize Quran. But you are entitled to your belief as I am for my belief.
I can not quote you verses because I am not familiar with verses but with God's words.
What I am questioning are your practices that you admitted is against Quran's teachings. So it only means that even if you say you are a Muslim, salvation is not guarantee because you are not following Islam completely.
Tell me, sisterfatima, is there a perfect Muslim? Isn't it that all human being commits sins and trespasses everyday. Precisely the reason why all human are destined to suffer in hell! Being good and kind is not a guarantee that you will be saved. Whatever man do, he is destined to suffer the punishment of God because the payment for sin is hell and every human being is a sinner. That is where the need for a Savior which we believe as Christ Jesus. established thru Himself a Church He called His own and gave His life for the salvation of men. Anyone who enters this church, although the same human being committing sins or transgression against God (because of human nature), will be saved comes judgment day because the Savior already paid their sins.
Now for all the people that lived before this church was established by our Lord Christ Jesus, God has His own way to judge them but we should follow commandments as preached in these last days.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
After reading Above coments of sisterfatima.....I felt pleasure on her realizing attitude & positive behaviour.
But here I feel, I must interfere for clarification of the statement "BIBLE IS CORRUPTED"
1) The original Language of Bible is Hebrew (Ibrani), not English or any other Language.
2) The Bible you get in any other language is only a Translation.
3) Now, you may find several translation of any other religious book......which may have different words even within the same language.......it couldn't be claimed as corruption.
BUT
4) If you follow on translation & translation out of translation it may have some impact but the reality will still be the same.
5) Bible in Hebrew (Ibrani) language, is still existing....but unfortunately most of us don't know & don't understand that language.
So my friends, don't claim against the Books of God, Don't claim against religions OF God, Don't abuse prophets......
While insulting & abusing other religion will never give result other than hatred & war.
Coelacanth, Please do not abuse The Prophet of Almighty, It is not his mistake as he was introduced in wrong way in some books.
brother qureshi,
i have given references, its a truth u can find in google, i have partcipated so many open stage discussions, and christian friends of mine openly accpeted that the books are changed in each time, i think u are hearing it the first time. simply compare the new international Bible and NIV 1950 bible, u can find many differences in this 50 years and the past so many, simply check a proptestant bible and catholic bible, u can find differences!
and the answer of yours to coelacanth by qouting Qur'an and Bible is amazing, masha allah, jazaakallah for answering him.
and i can claim that is copy pasted just like what u said against me! but i will not say because i did'nt see u capied, so plz stop your wrong assumption that i am copy pasted, i have no need for copy pasting from here and there. i have different Bibles and softwares in room to qoute it.
brother dmighty solomon,
stop acting like an innocent, the proof is still u mention divorce, mutiple marriage against islam even after detailed answer are given by me. The one who doesn't follow the Teaching of Islam is already out of Islam. No one has to expel him. One more thing, Islam is not a society or union to expel some one. It is a way of life and the one who don't follow is already away from the system.
Qureshi, plz note, your frnd dmighty solomon is still using child marriage??? this the evidence of my claim.
and advice him to respect islam. its he who forced me to ask about the authenticity of bible, u both can read from first post all are infront u.
u asked me 6 Qs, i have answered it with pleasue, but solomon called islam "not pro-GOD", that's why i asked the authenticity of his doctrine.
just one example, divorce is not there in his doctrine does'nt mean that islam which allows divorce in a long process in extreme level and gradually decrease the situations of divorce is not pro god. the proof of its pro GOD is divorce is very less among muslims.
all the above stuffs are explained here detailly many times, and the repeating seems bashing exactly!
'''I will not argue with you about your 13 questions because even if admit you are right, it will not change the fact that''' again u keep repeating, this what i said hurting even after answering.
I will not argue with someone like you. You are not worth it. Bring it to your grave and let's just see what happened in the end.Let us just wait for the end of the word and let us know who will be saved? insha allah
and at least u accepted we honor jesus and muhammed equally? i am glad.
and brother dmighty solomon, ok i will not ask u about the authenticity of your bible, u keep belive in it, its your belif, u have the right to belive and i am not the one to force u, and i have no need for forcing as i said before, but qureshi, i have answered his questins very politely u can check, its he who said blamings repeatedly each time i answer so i want answers for the below questins(plz note, its not about corruptions and authenticity, its about plain faith in christainity, and plz note dmighty solomon trying to answer the below)
1)according to bro dmighty solomon
abraham married 2 wives against to God's will.
solomon married 100 wives against to morality.
now he will say
''Well you can always quote that Abraham and Solomon and other prophets may have many wives, but that is during their time. When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it.''
brother dmightysolomon, if i did'nt accpet the above answer of yours(like what u did againts islam), wat will u do to justify their marriages???
and why u can't accept your own words when it comes to islam???
2)Show me where Jesus Or God says to MARRY ONLY ONE in the bible???
!Qur'an is the only religious scripture in the world that says 'marry only one'
3)and plz give me a bible verse for supporting your below statement
""let a separated man remains separated and can never marry again unless the spouse dies (and so the ties that bonded the marriage is already broken) and the living person can marry again.""
(i am asking this Q 6th time!!!)
4)u preached a lot about MORAL VALUES, plz read the below bible verses
I CAN’T TELL IT, read it by yourself
II SAMUEL-CHAPTER 11 VERSE 2 TO 5
II SAMUEL-CHAPTER 13 VERSE 1 TO 14
GENESIS 19 VERSES 30 TO 38
Numbers 31:35-40
Numbers 31:17-18
AND JUSTIFY IT ACCORDING TO YOUR DOCTRINE???
5)I am amazed that u allows seperation in 'extreme' circumstances (even though it's againts God's will!), yet doesnt allow re-marry? Why? Why is it so sinful to remarry?
6)Pork is forbidden in the Bible:
7 and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. 8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you. [Leviticus 11:7-8 (New King James Version)]
7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you. [Leviticus 11:7-8 (New International Version)]
Jesus, it was VERY clear that he WASNT here to CHANGE the LAW of MOSES (peace be upon him)!
“17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” [Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)]
plz give me a reference for your below statement.i dont know how many time i have to ask this Q.
The pork issue as well as circumcision issue was already abolished or have been adapted to the Christian era. But the non-eating of blood was still a commandment in the Christian era so we don't eat it. As for pork, it was not mentioned in the three item not to be consumed, i.e blood, hanged animals and foods offered to idols.
brother qureshi, he asked me 6Qs, we have answered it, and now i am asking the above 6 Qs, u will be a good moderator between us, and please note he is answering or not, its your duty to advice him to answer, if can't answer us also no problem because we are not hypocrites and prejudists to blame other faiths repeatedly!!!(even after good answers are given)
and i am openly apologize here for saying that bible is curropt, i am so sorry for mentioning the fact in my posts more than once and i am aware about that it might be hurted my fellow christian friends and i will not repeat it insha allah.
(and the equal responsibility of currption mentioning is goes to brother dmighty solomon for provocking me and forcing me.) as a muslim i must not be provocked when someone said something, so i feel very guilty for wasting my valuable time with dmighty solomon brother, na udubillah!
i will be offline for somedayz to leave home for eid holydayz, eid mubarak!
Coelacanth, Please do not abuse The Prophet of Almighty, It is not his mistake as he was introduced in wrong way in some books.
Eid adha muabarak
I am waiting for your answer,
The sentence "BIBLE IS CORRUPTED" raises a big question about belief of Billions of people. How anybody can say, without reference??????It has to be justified.....As Muslims we do believe all revelations from God.....Although, we do believe those have been amended from time to time by God.....but I have never seen any reference that those are corrupted.
Be aware of the people spreading disinformation.
The differences are brought by humans, yes... us... der r loads of religeous leaders who say der own version of the Bible or the Holy Quran... and den, der r humans, who without thinking, follows des leaders... Wot i dont understand is, how come des very people who giv up der life in the name of Jihad, blah blah blahs... dont take a moment 2 think tht, dey r blowing up der very life which Allah or Jesus has given??? Seriously... r dey tht dumb... just shows how much of education is der in one's country. Man.. Even a 4year old kid knows how 2 operate a computer des days... And still... sad, really sad... people find differences b/w people... When wud it end?
dmightysolomon...it was written in Deuteronomy, that the blood line that Jesus has WILL NOT ENTER GOD's ASSEMBLY FOREVER...and then the bible said he is the messiah...another contradiction, don't you think? It was never said with malice, it's just how you interpret it. Why would i apologize for that? I gave you my reference and all which explains what i said. Why would i need to apologize to you? If my claim doesn't have any referrence, then i would apologize, but if you can explain to me why he should be called messiah when the same book that declares him a messiah is the same book that says the blood line from where he came is BANNED FOREVER IN GOD'S ASSEMBLY? That's why the bible is corrupted...lots of inconsistencies.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
I have answered all those question regarding early people's salvation many times and in early part of this thread.
Your word "bastard" is aggravated by your claim that Jesus is not entitled to be called "messiah", you said it. You even linedup the blood line of our Lord to some tribe or what.
Don't clean yourself now, when you use the word "bastard" it was said with malice. Just apologize and maybe we can forgive you for maligning the name of our dear Lord Jesus.
Yes, all of you said and keep on mentioning that "Bible is corrupt", I never said anything bad against Quran. What I am commenting are the malpractices.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
qureshi2k...my apologies...i didn't see the title that you were asking malabari and sisterfatima.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
qureshi2k...maybe you should learn to read the post from one of your sisters, sisterfatima, who said that the bible is corrupted, and i only seconded. move 5 messages up and you will see her reply to me.
Is my referrence credible?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Please provide the reference in accordance to which you claim that "BIBLE IS CORRUPTED"......waiting for your reply.....if you can't,,,, tell me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will tell you the right answer!!!!!!!!!!
What is the definition of the word "Bastard" for all of you to react as if it was a curse or what?
Bastard = Begotten and born out of lawful matrimony; illegitimate. http://thinkexist.com/dictionary/meaning/bastard/
Is it a bad word? was Jesus begotten out of lawful matrimony? If so, then what's all the fuss about? If not, is Mary married to God? Jesus was BEGOTTEN BEFORE Joseph married Mary, and Jesus was NOT the son of Joseph, and Mary is not married to God who had her begotten a son. you guys learn to research about the word.
dmightysolomon...i'll be looking forward to that time...and when that time comes, you'll realize that religion doesn't play ANY ROLE in salvation. If God judges based on your religion, what happen to Adam and Eve's soul? Their descendants? Was there religion before? If none, then explain from your books what happened to their souls, those children of Adam and Eve who committed the bible-god approved incest and later on banning it? If you can't show any part of your book what happened to the souls of those people who never got the chance to become Christian or Muslim, then stop assuming that you will be saved because of your belief in the book. Buddhist live a simple life with a simple doctrine, but will God DAMN them because they never joined your religions? If not, then what's the use of religion?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
COELCANT.............
IN QURAN, IT IS MENTION THE FOLLOWING:
(SURAH MARIAM....19)
VERSE; 19, ANGEL SAID "I AM ONLY MESSANGER OF YOUR LORD TO ANNOUNCE TO U THE GIFT OF A RIGHTOUS SON."
VERSE; 20,SHE SAID "HOW CAN I HAVE A SON WHEN NO MAN HAS TOUCHED ME NOR AM I UNCHEASTE."
VERSE; 21,HE SAID "SO (IT WILL BE), YOUR LORD SAID THAT IS EASY FOR ME (ALLAH). AND (WE WISH) TO APPOINT HIM AS A SIGN TO MANKIND & MERCY FROM US (ALLAH) AND IT IS A MATTER ALREADY DECREED (BY ALLAH).
VERSE 22; SO SHE CONCEIVED HIM, AND SHE DREW WITH HIM TO A FAR PLACE.
THE NEW TESTAMENT MATHEW SAYS;
THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST;
THIS IS HOW THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST CAME ABOUT; HIS MOTHER MARY WAS PLEDGED TO BE MARRIED TO JOSEPH, BUT BEFORE THEY CAME TOGETHER, SHE WAS FOUND TO BE WITH CHILD THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT BECAUSE JOSEPH HER HIUSBAND WAS A RIGHTOUS MAN AND DIDNOT WANT TO EXPOSE HER TO PUBLIC DISGRACE, HE HAD IN MIND TO DIVORCE HER QUIETLY. BUT AFTER HE HAD CONSIDERED THIS, AN ANGEL OF THE LORD APPEARED TO HIM IN A DREAM AND SAID, "JOSEPH SON OF DAVID, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO TAKE MARY HOME AS YOUR WIFE, BECAUSE WHAT IS CONCIEVE IN HER IS FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT. SHE WILL GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND YOU ARE TO GIVE HIM THE NAME JESUS, BECAUSE HE WILL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS".
ALL THIS TOOKPLACE TO FULFIL WHAT THE LORD HAD SAID TO THE PROPHET; "THE VIRGIN WILL BE WITH CHILD & WILL GIVE BIRTH TO A SON, AND THEY WILL CALL HIM IMMANUEL" WHICH MEANS, "GOD WITH US".
WHEN JOSEPH WOKE UP, HE DID WHAT THE ANGEL OF THE LORD COMMANDED HIM & TOOK MARY HOME AS HIS WIFE. BUT HE HAD NO UNION WITH HER, UNTIL SHE GAVE BIRTH TO A SON & HE GAVE HIM THE NAME JESUS.
PEOPLE LIKE YOU WERE REPLIED BY JESUS "REFERRED BY QURAN"
SURAH 19....MARIAM;
VERSE 27; THEN SHE BROUGHT HIM (THE BABY) TO HER PEOPLE, CARRYING HIM. THEY SAID "O MARIAM (MARY), INDEED YOU HAVE BROUGHT FARIYY (A MIGHTY THING)
VERSE 28; O SISTER(I.E. THE LIKE) OF HARUM (AARON). YOUR FATHER WAS NOT A MAN WHO COMMIT ADULTERY, NOR YOUR MOTHER WAS AN UNCHASTE WOMAN"
VERSE 29; THEN SHE (MARIAM) POINTED TO HIM (BABY). THEY SAID; "HOW CAN WE TALK TO ONE WHO IS CHILD IN THE CRADLE?"
VERSE 30; HE [ISA (JESUS)] SAID; "VERILY I AM A SALVE OF ALLAH. HE HAS GIVEN ME SCRIPTURE AND MADE ME A PROPHET.
VERSE; 31; AND HE HAS MADE ME BLESSED WHATSOEVER I BE, AND ENJOINED ON ME SALAT (PRAYER) AND ZAKAT (OBLIGATORY CHARITY), AS LONG AS I LIVE"
VERSE 32; AND DUTIFUL TO MY MOTHER, AND MADE ME NOT ARROGANT, UNBLEST.
VERSE 33; AND SALAM (PEACE) BE UPON ME THE DAY I WAS BORN & THE DAY I DIE, AND THE DAY I SHALL BE RAISED ALIVE"
VERSE 34; SUCH IS ISA (JESUS) SON OF MARIAM (MARY). (IT IS) A STATEMENT OF TRUTH ABOUT WHICH THEY DOUBT (OR DISPUTE).
I KNOW MUCH MUCH MUCH ABT ALL THE RELIGIONS, I HAVEN'T JUST COPIED & PASTED LIKE SISTER FATIMA OR MALBARI, BUT I HAVE WRITTEN IT BY MYSELF GOING THROUGH THE REFERENCES.
I WAS NOT GIVING U REFRENCE CUZ I DONT WANT ARGUE WITH SUCH PEOPLE LIKE U WHO USES A BAD WORD FOR A PROPHET, LIKE THIS & TRIED TO PROVE IT BY STUBBORN WAY.....................I CONSIDER THEM NOTHING MORE THAN ANY ILLETERATE IGNORANT,
BUT NOW I MAKE U KEEP UR MOUTH SHUT....
IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS ON BELIVING ANY OF RELIGIOUS BOOKS....THEN KEEP IT TO YOU ONLY, DON'T PUBLISIZE.
i do believe when there is a multi cultural blogs or any conversation politics nor religion should not be discussed! coz every one in here comes from a different back ground and every one have his own views! and every one will be kinda defensive about it!
every one should keep his views and beliefes to himself or herself!
the point is that u r discussing an issue that is between human to God.... not human to human! which is certainly should not be discussed in here!
when did I say that Quran is wrong? What I said is clear, what I "perceived" as malpractices is a sign that your religion is tolerating it, if not, why they remain Muslim.
You are the one who said Bible is corrupt and you keep on mentioning it in your posts. So now, who is bashing who?
I respected Islam by concentrating on the practices issue and not on the book itself because I have not read it, take note, I have not read it and only reacts on what you quote. But you admitted reading Bible and keep on saying it's corrupt, now tell me, who is making accusation here.
I will not argue with you about your 13 questions because even if admit you are right, it will not change the fact that "multi-marriage and divorce and child marriage" is practice and sanctioned by your religion, and that is a HARD FACTS!
Even you say only person practice it, as long as you don't expelled the practitioner, it means that the religion accepts and consented with it!
And you keep defending Coelacanth regarding his abusive words against our Lord Jesus Christ is tantamount to accepting his belief.
Coelacanth, you are asking if you have not insulted God? WELL, LISTEN UP, WHEN YOU SAY CHRIST IS "bastard", YOU ARE INSULTING GOD BECAUSE GOD IS THE FATHER OF CHRIST WHICH WAS CONCEIVED THRU THE HOLY SPIRIT. Wait 'til the Almighty God punished for insulting His Son. I pity you very much!!!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
sisterfatima...if you are going thru my post, i am saying that IF it says different from the bible, then i am willing to be corrected. If you say that the bible i am interpreting is corrupted, i definitely agree with you. About your question as to how can a liar influence 500 million people, i don't exactly know who you are referring to as a liar, whether the book or the person. If the person, they are not the one who spread the news but their followers. If you are saying about the book, the answer is they are very active in promoting it and willing to travel across the world. Just like the Catholic faith. In the Philippines, our ancestors used to believe in Nature God, the true God that provides everything. Then came the spanish offering us good tidings and new things, including religion. Religion before was not presented initially, but offered gifts before presenting it. People who don't know anything about what they were saying will not know the truth, so basically, no one will know if your lying if they don't have anything to compare it with. I hope that answers your question.
Qureshi2k...now your telling me to shut up? if you have no valuable inputs on this topic, better for you to shut up because you can't even answer a simple question i am giving you. If you can consider answering my question, then maybe i can consider your request.
God bless you all.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
first of all brother pierrot,
May GOD Almighty Bless you and your Family, May HE grant HIS great rewardz and higher distinctions in here and hereafter, aameen
brother Qureshi,
still u are advising me and not advising your frnd solomon???
we are well aware about everybody thinks that his religion is superior than any other religions, as they think about their's.
plz check who insulted our faith and advice him to give and take respect.OK
brother coelacanth,
u can interpret that book that way because its corrupted, so how can u believe the thing about a great Man from a curropted book?
if its divine u cannot interpret that false abuse.
God created Adam without father and mother, is it hard to believe about Jesus???
it might be a miracle from GOD, is it hard to belive GOD can do miracles???
your have'nt answered my QS below
how can a liar influence in 500 million people in the world???
jesus(pbh) is accepted by christians and muslims, the major 2 followers of the world.
so he might be a mighty messenger from GOD
why can't u accept the challenge of Holy Qur'an??
any reasoning behind it???
brother timtan,and nice to nice
divorce is allowed in budhism.
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/MoreQA.htm#Divorce
First I told you rubbish man, & now I will tell you to shutup & stop insulting Prophet out of your vulgar philosophy.......
wah
they people are/ were more intelligent comparable to Jesus(their God)as changed the bible.so nice i will pary to Allah to bring u on the right path or called jesus to pary these people who changd the bible.bcs they r more intelligent people.
wah
they people are/ were more intelligent comparable to Jesus(their God)as changed the bible.so nice i will pary to Allah to bring u on the right path or called jesus to pary these people who changd the bible.bcs they r more intelligent people.
Brother Coleacanth,
Quran says when God wills something He says 'Be' and it happens. So muslims have no problem in believing Jesus was born without a father by God's will.
This is just to let you know how logical is Islam...
qureshi2k...Rubbish??? Legallity??? what??? Answer my question to you so that we'll know who talks rubbish. Jesus, according to bible, was conceived into a virgin by the holy spirit. Mary was already bethroted to Joseph, but after Joseph found out that she was pregnant, he was thinking of leaving her, of course because of shame, but the "angel of god" spoke to him and asked him to marry her. Tell me, if you are bethroted to a woman, and on the eve of your wedding she'll tell you that she's pregnant because god conceived her, will you be glad and tell everyone attending your wedding that your wife is pregnant, and God is the father of your wife's child? I'll drop by your house and tell you that i'm the angel of god, and you have to marry her and announce to everyone she is conceived by the holy spirit. Will you be glad to call that child legitimate? I doubt, unless you'll be hypocrite enough to tell everyone here that you're proud that your wife to be is bearing a child that isn't even yours. That is how Jesus came to this world, 2000 years ago, unless there is something mentioned in Qu'ran that differs from how Jesus' story was told in the bible.
The terminology is a comment based on the aforementioned example, and is based on this link http://www.bibleorigins.net/MoabiteBloodMessiah.html.
My God is a just, merciful and kind God. If we have the same God, why focus on the person "sent by God" when all we want is praise the One and only God? Rebuke me if i talk rubbish about OUR God...but as long as i don't insult my God, i don't find anything rubbish in my post.
God bless all of you!
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Has Malabari decided what he is?
Don't talk rubbish man...........if you talk about Jesus Christ (Peace be upon him) who is prophet of God. What about your legallity....
Dear Solomon, Please see above comments of sister fatima about your rash style as well.
By the way, let me tell all of you;
1) Definately Islam & Christianity both are different from eachother, that's why Christianity is Christianity & Islam is Islam.
2) Religious book of any religion is respectable to it's followers same as Quran is to Muslims.
3) To claim against any religious book about it's authenticity, is same hurting as if sombody claims the authenticity of your book.
4) As far as sisterfatima & Malbari are concerned, they are tryimg to convey the message of Islam....it's a sort of preaching.
5) But everybody, especially Sisterfatima & Malbari must be well-aware that everybody thinks that his religion is superior than any other religions, as they think about their's.
dmightysolomon...i am using the verses not because i believe in it but because i want to show you what you guys are believing at. It's not hipocrisy. If i quote on some verses of your books to show you it's errors, flaws and inconsistencies, does it make me a hypocrite? I don't know where you learn the word, and i don't even know if it applies to my response. Do i preach your bible? no. I use the verses as an eye opener for people like you who already admitted about the flaw and yet still embrace it because of the so-called faith. Will you trust your girlfriend or wife after she told lots of lies? If you said you still will, then that's a hypocrite.
Please follow the hyperlink that i posted about the explanation of Jesus being a "bastard".
Qureshi2k...if you're looking for the word "bastard", you can only find it in deuteronomy. What do you call a son of your wife that doesn't belong to you? Will you gladly call it your own? If you happen to be getting married and you found out that your wife-to-be is pregnant and she told you it was conceived by God, will you believe her?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
you speak and raisonning with jesus book mean you are christian but try to learn quraa to know the real difference and you will know the truth
Hi all.
Firstly, thanks to sisterfatima for kind words off of this forum, via e-mail and also Malarbari for meeting me in Islamic Cultural centre in Qatar and bringing a frien (elder) to answer and discuss some of my Questions as a Christian on the difference and similarities between us. I must also point out that there was no "hard Sell" and my views were respected as well as Me respecting his and the company was very warmly accepted, as was the tea. It is refreshing to see this side of things as back in the UK it is persieved that you must convert and be converted at all costs and the attitude of Muslims is percieved by UK residance, Christian or not, as hard line and intolerent of anything but their ways. This was far from it, and the patience of the people there was beautiful. I made it quite clear that I was not making a comittment to Islam and may spend the rest of my life asking questions but some of the answers I got already have changed my outlook on the rest of my life already and indeed the way I do things as well as the reason why.
In viewing the litiriture I have, it reaffurms the feeling that I have in that although I am basicly very comfortable with my faith, some of the things in the Bible do not add up and although I have to say the books given do have a biased slant, they are no more than I have already understood, but that does not mean I am less convinced that Christianity is wrong, but that some of the details are flawed by political expedience over the 1000 or so years.
But above all, the peace and friendlyness of my new found brothers and sisters has been a welcome change from the bitter attitude of others and it is good to discuss, agree, disagree, argue, but above all, still remain on Gods earth as friends. To those who know who you are, may God bless you and make you prosper as much as I have in the last week.
If you can find out the real bible, "now the christians holding the amended one" you can easily find out that the jesus also a muslim.
timtan, I did not speak about Thai or specify any particular one, I did not said that it happened in Thailand. It is a general question. If it happens, what would be the solution in budhism??
Timtan, What one will do if one's wife found to be cheating him? What your Budhism says? Still he has to live with her or can he divorce her???? Is there any solution in Budhism?
still u say "child marriage"?
it proves that u did'nt read all of my posts, sure.
anyway its waste to talk with u who is a prejudist who did'nt even try to answer 13 Qs.after all we answered all u asked and Let us just wait for the end of the word and let us know who will be saved? insha allah
this is the exact conclusion for timtam bro and coelacanth bro too.
'''you honor you Prophet Mohammad more than our Lord Jesus Christ'''
u r wrong, read the below verse, we honor both equaly unlike u.
{Say you: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam).}* (Al-Baqarah 2:136)
brother Qureshi
i dont know about malabari bro who is the starter of the topic, and the topic is very respectful aspects of both christianity and islam.
i entered here to answer one claim of bro coelcanth, i did'nt used any type of bashing against any religion, dmighty solomon is the man who asked 6 Q and bashed Islam repeatedly even after good answers are given and who forced me to ask about the authenticity of Bible
if i did anything wrong against a faith without any provoking, i am ready to apologize, brother Qureshi, plz read from first, and try to find who spoke gentle and who spoke rude.
even after these long discussion, still solomon brother hurting islam with a word "mal prcatice" and note he is not answering 13 Qs.
dont u notice it, he said "your religion is not pro GOD, everyone laugh at your answer and very harassings against Islam on the issues of polygamy and divorce even child marriage with his own imaginations.
dont u see? why can't u advice him to respect Islam???
we love jesus as we love our Prophet Muhammed, but dmighty solomon's 3rd Q is a doubt against our prophet Muhammed, dont u see?
when malabari answered it, he said its false interpretaion, dont u see?
why can't u advice him to respect Islam???
we love jesus as we love our Prophet Muhammed, that's why i asked bro coelcanth a logic Q
how can a liar influence in 500 million people in the world???
jesus(pbh) is accepted by christians and muslims, the major 2 followers of the world.
so he might be a mighty messenger from GOD
is here any abusing against christainity???
bro coelacanth abused Jesus with the Bible of Solomon, that's why i said its corrupted so no one can blame a holy prophet from a curropted scripture. and i find nothing wrong in it.
so brother qureshi, first u have to advice that solomon brother who started bashing
u can read about Jesus in Qur'an and how we love and follow him.
brother coelacanth, i want to ask the same Q of dmighty solomon,How can you reason from something you don't believe? and u did'nt accepted my challenge about holy Qur'an???
and bro dmighy solomon, pork issue not yet solved here
Pork is forbidden in the Bible:
7 and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. 8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you. [Leviticus 11:7-8 (New King James Version)]
7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you. [Leviticus 11:7-8 (New International Version)]
Jesus, it was VERY clear that he WASNT here to CHANGE the LAW of MOSES (peace be upon him)!
“17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” [Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)]
plz give me a reference for your below statement(Q14)
i dont know how many time i have to ask this Q.hehehe
The pork issue as well as circumcision issue was already abolished or have been adapted to the Christian era. But the non-eating of blood was still a commandment in the Christian era so we don't eat it. As for pork, it was not mentioned in the three item not to be consumed, i.e blood, hanged animals and foods offered to idols.
Coelacanth called our Lord Jesus "bastard" and even accused that the lord is not possible to be the messiah because of His blood line. I am a Christian, although it is absurd, I could understand Coecalanth "ignorance" is still understandable. But for Muslim who acjnowledged that Jesus is a prophet, calling Him by that name is like asking for your death penalty.
That is why, I dare Bro Malabari to react on Coecalanth "wordings" as I perceived them as "friends" because they both go against me.
And you are right Qureshi, I have a high regards to Islam and any other religion or belief that is why I asked for the same treatment. If they can freely practice their worship service in our country, then why can't we do it here in Qatar or in other Muslim-dominated countries. Why is it that in Bahrain we are respected and not here. Is Islam dependent on goverment that runs the country? Was is not a teaching of Islam the "RESPECT ALL RELIGION"? Is this RESPECT only in words or should be PRACTICED? Just asking!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I have gone through Bible, but I didn't find any evidence for the "word" which Coelacanth used for Jesus Christ (Peace be upon him).......the reason I am referring th subject to your good-self is that.....you could explain me in a better....what & where did coelacanth perceived wrong.
By the way, I feel that Malbari & Sister Fatima both don't realize.....that everybody has respect for their religion in the same way they have for their's. You may ask them your concerns in a point wise questioning....for an answer from them which should be easy to understand, not hapazard essay just copy & paste.
but what was written, Since you don't believe the Bible, it is only logical that you don't believe in what is written in it. But you keep on quoting Bible verses, what a hypocracy! How can you reason from something you don't believe? After making bad names of our Lord Jesus, then you will quote the Bible? Shame on you!
This is our belief, there are three major TIME STAGES of the world, the time of our Fathers, from the creation of man to the birth of Abraham, the Prophet time, from birth of Abraham to birth of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Christian Era which is from birth of Lord Jesus 'til the end of the world.
Each era have specific laws and commandments that applies justifiably on the condition by that time. The pork issue as well as circumcision issue was already abolished or have been adapted to the Christian era. But the non-eating of blood was still a commandment in the Christian era so we don't eat it. As for pork, it was not mentioned in the three item not to be consumed, i.e blood, hanged animals and foods offered to idols.
Sisterfatima and Bro. Malabari, you honor you Prophet Mohammad more than our Lord Jesus Christ which we also worship as part of the commandments we received from Him. But do not get us wrong, we worship Christ as man and as the begotten Son of our God. But if to you, He is just an ordinary prophet, then it's your belief. Let us just wait for the end of the word and let us know who will be saved? Religion who accept 'multi-marriage and child marriage and divorce" (culturally as you defend it) or our religion who will not tolerate such "mal-practices".
Bro Malabari, you see, your friend Coelacanth admitted his wordings and he is quoting a book he doesn't even recognize! So it's your move, my brother!
And Coelacanth, as for what you are saying about other religion such as Buddhism, all religion we respect but we have orders to propagate God's words as we believe it so I will reserved my comment about their religion.
And Bro. Malabari, as you are aware of, you propagate Islam freely to all nations and all nationalities and religion and yet, you don't allow us to propagate freely our beliefs with you brothers and sisters in Islam. Tell me if I am wrong, do you honestly believe that you respect us, non-Muslim? Do you think that allowing Catholic in Qatar allows you to "harass" other denominations of faith? Does Islam give us "real" freedom to practice our congregational worship service to our God (your Allah)? Give me honest answers, please!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
sisterfatima...as i was saying...it was based on Deuteronomy, where it says about bible God damning the bastards AND those with Moabite and Amonite blood FOREVER. From the same book, if you are going to look at the geneology of Jesus, he has a Moabite and Amonite blood, and interpreting it from the book, he will NOT enter the assembly of the Lord FOREVER. This means that Jesus himself is DAMNED by God, but because he was "conceived by God thru the Holy Spirit", he was an exception, same with David and Solomon, who were exhaulted by the bible God. and quoting from your post, you said Jesus "might" be a messenger from God, which is a sign of uncertainty from you by putting "might be" on it. By the way, i forgot to include the hyperlink from where i got what i posted...so to give credit to the author of it:
http://www.bibleorigins.net/MoabiteBloodMessiah.html
timtam...you got a point. buddhist doesn't read the bible but they know what is right and wrong. So the bible can be ignored and yet you can still know right from wrong.
dmightysolomon...coming from timtam's post, can you tell me where he is headed because he is a buddhist and doesn't believe in your bible? If you can confirm to me that his soul is leading to "Hades" because of the simplicity of the doctrine that he is following, and not the one from the "word of god" like you guys are worshipping. Also, don't mix tradition with religion. Philippines before allowed the marriage of children, even at the age of 7, but after the legal law was established, it was changed to 21 and 25. Those taboo in one country is not always taboo in the rest of the world. Will you approve people from other country telling you what not to do with your tradition? Also, no one is forcing you to change your belief. It's a matter of eye opener to everyone to see all sides of the story about your so-called faith. So, don't give your prejudice as to where i am heading when you yourself only assumes where your heading. All you guys that were saying about your religion are all assumptions. People had spoken to the dead people's souls, it was even written in the bible, and those who made contact with the afterlife doesn't tell anything about heaven or hell, not even devil. Imagine the bible telling an epileptic person that he was possessed by the devil? Tell that now to your member that has epilepsy, and exorcise him and get his healing without the aid of medicine.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
i have read that verse, and the way u interpret.
now come to listen what is our response.
we are aware of the Bible, and its not Nicene but Nicea as u said .
'''when in fact the person to be credited for publishing the first Bible was a Pagan named Constantine! Ironic, isn't it? The Bible was the Selected text approved by the Council of the Nicene, and later on approved by Constantine, and now you are putting your faith on a book'''
we belive Bible WAS the word of God,The Bible WAS the word of God, but Paul 'sold' the religion to the romans and effectively destroyed it! that's why i said human hands worked behind Gospels to destroy its divinity.i have qouted, Deuteronomy 4:2 clearly declares that the Bible is corrupt.Jeremiah 8:8 confirms Deuteronomy 4:2!
literally 1000s of man-made lies in the Bible.The modern-day New Testaments are all corrupted.
so you cannot blame a holy prophet from a corruped scripture.
logically may i ask, how can a liar influence in 500 million people in the world???
jesus(pbh) is accepted by christians and muslims, the major 2 followers of the world.
so he might be a messenger from GOD
and i have given some testimonials to prove Qur'an is the word of GOD, and its perfectly preserved and protected without human hands.
u acknowledged it and said will read it,and comment me to challenge.
the scientific accuracy and authenticity proves divinity of Holy Qur'an, so logically u can accept what God said about Jesus(pbh) in Holy Qur'an. (if u cannot accept also no problem, but we Muslims belive it about our Jesus christ prophet)
Jesus said : "Verily I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet; and He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Prayer, and Zakath, as long as I live."
[Holy Qur'an 19:30,31]
Jesus said : "Verily God is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path."
[Holy Qur'an 19:36]
Jesus said : "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of God unto you, confirming the Taurath [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad (i.e.Muhammad)."
[Holy Qur'an 61:6]
"Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. He shall be (in the company) of the righteous... And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (3:45-48).
"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (19:30-35).
"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65)
"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).
"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).
sorry for the delayed answer as i've been pissed for the weekend and barely got out of my bed.
for your question about my comment, please refer to my post here:
http://qatarliving.com/node/252497?page=4
i quoted a verse from Deuteronomy about the bible God damning those born out of wedlock, as well as those who has a moabite or amonite blood, which was both present in Jesus Christ. If the Qu'ran doesn't base their belief on Deuteronomy and not mentioned in the Qu'ran, then i apologize, but my question is strictly for the bible, if you are going thru to my post on the above link.
dmightysolomon...you don't need a bible to know what is good and not. Do everything you like being done to you...what is hard to understand and hard to perceive on that? do you want to be treated harshly? then if so, do it to your fellow. the golden rule in the universe is, what goes around comes right back around. many people call it in their own terms, like Karma, and some found it being quoted in the bible "do unto others what you want others do unto you." Laws are based from that idea, and not from the bible. If you think killing is good, then expect to be killed because whatever you did will come right back at you. Remeber Jesus quoted that on the bible, those who live by the sword will surely die by the sword. It's simple rule. And please, don't tell me you haven't heard of dinuguan where only people of your kind in the philippines don't eat.
Qureshi2k...this is in response to your email. i will repeat...my statement is based from the bible, the Qu'ran verse for Jesus' so-called divinity, i have no idea.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
We are anxiously waiting for your reply...........to clarify for the ...........WORDS YOU USED FOR JESUS CHRIST????????????It is something cannot br ignored or avoided........
In my previous post regarding my sister's insulting. You can notice that i mentioned that its not only to brother solomon.who ever doing abusive words....I asked to our Coelacath. If he abused our prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) then its an non-forgiveable offense.
Lets await for his reply.
Thanking you always(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Respected brother.......
What do u mean by ur statement..?????? is there any truth in Solomon's statement.
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
thank u nice to nice, jazaakallahu khyrun kaseera dear brother
exactly, this is the answer u want
The one who doesn't follow the Teaching of Islam is already out of Islam. No one has to expel him. One more thing, Islam is not a society or union to expel some one. It is a way of life and the one who don't follow is already away from the system.
and brother dmighty i am qouting your words here
You don't understand how God works,... ...
the above cover all of your unnecessary doubts
now let us review what was happend here.
'''If you honestly believe in Jesus, you will obey His teachings.'''
we are obeying God's teachings from HIS divine word.the orginal post of malabari is a testimonial that we follow jesus more than christians.
i did'nt say polygamy is haram in islam, "more than one" is not an instruction that means not a compulsory thing because it based on the circumstances (if anyone miss use it doesn't mean than its sactioned by GOD). and i explained about the era which the revealation of Qur'an occured. at that time polygamy is widely practised by all.
but "marry only one" is a command and i have given two verses about it, plz check.(if u want to repeat it, i will)
Divorce is allowed in islam, i have explained all about it, repeating seems that u did'nt read it, plz read.(if u want to repeat it, i will)if some one did divorce at a wink of an eye does'nt mean that its the fault of our religion, and if anyone did against to the teaching of islam, he is punished well by Allah,
i explained well here and admitted why divorce is very very less among muslims when comparing to other religions. the reason is islam have a well explained method to reduce divorce.
we belive Qur'an is the true word of GOD and its perfectly preserved without a change in a single dot from the date of revealation to today , if the above things are not mentioned in your doctrine does'nt mean its not pro GOD. we have 2 million innocent truth seekers all over the world, most of them are scientists, professors, highly qualified students, and women.
if its against to morality, they will not embrace it.
because here no "brain washing".
all of them accpeted by fresh minded reading and comparative studies.
i did'nt blame your doctrine, because i did'nt read about it(but i read bible alot from my childhood), u keep follow your teachings as you belive(even if u did'nt answer my Qs), islam does'nt need doubters like u.
Qur'an nowhere tells to marry child, so your repeating claim child marriage is nonsence!
as plato said its a cultural practice u can see among non muslims also. if some muslims practice child marriage has no connection with islam. and islam doen't forbidd it and does'nt allow it.
let them to practice their culture if its not against to our faith.
and about coelacanth's comment u asked, sorry for the delay, i can login here only after my works all finished.
now this is my time, dmighty solomon brother, u know that coelacanth brother asked so many Quries against islam too, we answered it with pleasure, and i am glad that he is not a hypocrite because when the truth comes infront of him, he wished to read Qur'an, but u r not like him, i have answered your bashings so many time here, but i feel u did'nt even read my posts and go on with endless harassings.
we love Jesus as we love our prophet muhammed, coelacanth is speaking about the verse in Bible, its your duty to answer him because we believe human hands worked behind bible to destroy its divinity and we are busy here with answering your non stop attacks.
and brother coelacanth, please dont use bad words against a holy prophet, if u have no belief in it, ask dmightysolomon reasoning questians like what u did to brother malabari, but i am sure u will not get answers from dmighty solomon because he is busy in repeating same Questians against islam even after good answers are given.
Qureshi brother regarding your 4th Q
u have to read about the gospels and its authors.
just look at google.
Can anyone quote Leviticus verse regarding pork... ...
Pork is forbidden in the Bible:
7 and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. 8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you. [Leviticus 11:7-8 (New King James Version)]
7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you. [Leviticus 11:7-8 (New International Version)]
Jesus, it was VERY clear that he WASNT here to CHANGE the LAW of MOSES (peace be upon him)!
“17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” [Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)]
KINDLY REPLY OF MALBARI QUESTION??????
WHAT DO U MEAN BY UR STATEMENT:""your bible itself explains why Jesus should NOT be the messiah, so don't put into argument if i call him a bastard because i have proof from your book that he was one"
WE ALL ARE WAITING FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BE QUICK
dmigtysolomon may I ask you one thing. I know many filipino and filipina claims to be Christian has spouse back in Philipines and have partners here. Is this is right as per your belief?
Regarding polygamy, It is allowed by Almighty thus we are not the one to make it Haram.
The one who doesn't follow the Teaching of Islam is already out of Islam. No one has to expel him. One more thing, Islam is not a society or union to expel some one. It is a way of life and the one who don't follow is already away from the system.
Good comments........seems to be much practical for the real situation
They are not only religions but they are all a way of life since they are teachings and guidelines for living that deeply influence us. All religions teach goodness, but men tend to be too biased on their own view point. We should all learn to love each other in this world whatever our religions, for in the end only God knows what you did and how we all lived. He knows what is in our hearts. Who are we to judge people of different faiths when we ourselves are not perfect. Christian or Muslim? It is not a matter of which group you belong to, it is a matter of keeping a Good Relationship with Him.
to you previous posts. That's why I said, they are not true Christians. Maybe, I will let you know my religion but one thing is sure, do not blame the astrocities of what you perceived as Christians!
I am also against their actions in Iraq and in other countries. But the fact remains that the three practices which we are discussing is still an unfinished business.
The wrongdoings of what you perceived as "Christians" you are mentioning above proved that they are not true. But it also does not make your religion true because you are not practicing what is written in Quran. Your only option now is to make "EXPULSION" a part of your religion because it is the only way you can removed people who don't practice Islam. But as long as "NO EXPULSION" policy exist inside Islam, these terrorists will keep on wrongly using your religion in their action (and although you disagree with their action, many do agree silently). So tell me, are you true followers of God/Allah or not?
In our religion, we expelled members who do not follow the doctrines as instructed by God. It's very logical!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Please refer to your question no. 4.........Gospel/Injeel was revealed on Jesus Christ all together once......not in partial revelations.......by the way your another question about the Author of Bible, the reply is Bible is from God.........not from unknown authors.......please respect the religious books.
that I "abused" your sister (which I'm not which I apologized out of respect to her) but here is a guy who insult your beloved Jesus directly but you say nothing? I am confused about your action, my brother!
And to both of you (Brother and sisterfatima), I will answer you thirteen questions as what you expect to be the answer. But will it change my belief about God? Maybe there will be big difference about the Bible, but will it change what is written about "divorce" and "multi-marriage". About child marriage? If you will give me a good answer for these three things, which up to now is still not answered properly but a confirmation that what is practice is not what is written (sisterfatima admit it in her responses). If you honestly believe in Jesus, you will obey His teachings.
And one more thing, I was asking before, who came first and who preached last, Jesus or Mohammad. Do they belong in the same "time" or era. Lord Jesus is Christian era, what about prophet Mohammad?
Good morning again!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
if onw as you say "few" practice polygamy, does it make it right? Unless you expelled these practitioners, it still remains a fact that it is sanctioned by Islam and remains haram as you call it.
And don't say few, almost all Filipino Muslim I know pratice it. They have wives in Manila and wives here. Not only Filipinos, even other nationalities such as Egyptian Muslim, Indian Muslims I know. I also know two Indonesians. Are you telling me that it is not worth discussing it. You know very well that almost all rich Muslim in goverment and private sectors have more than one wife. Can you deny it. You see them evryday praying like others.
Coelacanth, so you follow the golden rule? Where did you learn it? You do "good" things only, how do you know if its good? What is your perception of good? Where do you based your perception?
So blood is a delicacy, that's why you eat it. Now I know what kind of a "good" man you are. Hope you won't be trap in a cannibal tribe where eating human being is a delicacy!
All action of God have reasons, maybe in your perception it is bad, but who is your God? Does it mean that your God is different from the God mentioned in the Bible? Now I know where you are heading, different from mine! And I assure you of that. Yes, my God is the same God that sent plague to Egypt so the pharaoh would knew who the real God is. My God is the same God our Lord Jesus pray to and the same God where everything comes from. I will pity your children for learning a different God!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
MightySolomon,
If you look at Islamic history, polygamy is quite obvious and practiced by all. But today you don't see many muslims practicing it, do you? That means if we go by what people practice, as you said the base for your arguments here, polygamy cannot be considered Islamic right? Then, what is your point in discussing it?
"your bible itself explains why Jesus should NOT be the messiah, so don't put into argument if i call him a bastard because i have proof from your book that he was one"
The above mentioned statement is urs......Plz may i knw...wat do u mean by this statement..?
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
dmightysolomon...your bible itself explains why Jesus should NOT be the messiah, so don't put into argument if i call him a bastard because i have proof from your book that he was one, and he came from a blood line that is damned by your bible God from the very beginning. And you were telling me that everything was given as food...but why aren't you guys eating blood, as it is a delicacy in the Philippines? Because as far as my understanding, it was part of the "banned" foods in the bible, but you guys only selected it and ignored the rest? Leviticus 11 explains what can be eaten and what cannot, and you will give me an explanation that god doesn't ban pork because it's not poisoned? In your number of years being a Filipino, how many have died of eating dinuguan? I've been eating it since i was a child but it's not poison...why can't you? My basis of salvation...don't do unto others what you don't want others do unto you. If you want to become a Deist yourself, its not my call. What's the point of believing in something that has lots of contradicting "facts"? Would you be happy to teach your children the story of how your bible god told his "chosen people" how to kill newborn, firstborn and all? you will tell that the guilt of the father is not transferred to the son, and vice versa, yet he sent the angel of death to kill the egyptian's first born for the guilt of their fathers as part of the 7 plagues? i would not want my child to know that salvation is based on a book written by unknown people who have lived thousand of years before i was even born. i will teach my child to be good, fair and just, and you don't need a bible to know what is right from wrong. you mentioned devil doing the same thing, are hindus devil? are greeks who believe in many gods devil? they are not. and they can live like yours and mine. Will you consider me devil if i don't follow your doctrines? Think. Religions are all politics. How many of your kind follow the so-called doctrines by the letter? If you ommit part of the bible to be followed, it's as good as not following the entire thing. And then you will tell everyone that whoever belongs to your congregation will definitely be saved? You have no assurance except your book who contradicts itself. What else you got left? What's the difference of other religion from yours? All buddhist will go to "hell" because they don't believe in Jesus? Is that your understanding of God, punishing those who don't believe in the bible in the judgment day? I want my child to think of God as a father, that's why i have a big role to become a model so that my children will not have a bad impression of my God. If i can't kill my child, so does my God. If i can forgive my child for her fault, so does my God. But i can't order my child to kill someone and explain to her that it's because i'm merciful. Your idea of God starts from home, and you don't need a bible to become a good person.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
what I rememeber was everything was given to man as food, except for blood, hanged animals and foods offered to idols. Of course nobody will consume poison, is pork poison?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
it doesn't mean that all laws during the Patriach, the prophet and Christian Eras are the same. And do not interpret Bible the way you want it.
Let us check whether your being a deist will bring to somewhere closer to heaven. What will be your basis, your kindness? Your belief in one God? Even the devil believe the same way but will they be save? Find the way and find it fast before it's too late for you!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
make it right. I am asking what's your doctrine, one or more than one? What is written, one or more than one?
And Coecalanth, for purposes of argument, I agree with your thinking about Bible, so what's now, you want me to become Deist? What is your basis for salvation? Tell me.
You know what suprise me, Sisterfatima and Bro Malabari agree or opined with you, but you call one of their prophet "bastard". And they are not against you, does it mean that Islam treats their prophets differently?
Your comment Bro Malabari and sisterfatima!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
dmightysolomon...multiple marriage, or even marrying at an early age, why does it have to be the focus of your quest in questioning Islam? If you were saying that everything in the Bible is correct, why is Abraham, Solomon, and the rest of the big names written on it married more than once and yet your bible God exhaulted them? Does it mean that you only have to select specific area of the bible to follow? If you really are abiding the laws written in the bible, like not eating blood, why do you guys eat pork when it was clearly written? Why don't you guys celebrate the Passover? Why don't you celebrate the Jubilee? Those were written in the bible and yet you are not following those? Jesus celebrated the passover meal, and followed all the so-called doctrines, but why you guys can't? Why aren't you doing the burnt offering? If you are only going to select specific part of the bible to follow, what's the sense of reading the entire book? You want me to point your doctrine that opposes the bible, answer my questions, as those opposes to your doctrines. Eating pork as it was written in Leviticus, Chapter 11:6-7, was not being followed...why? because you will tell me that it is not what goes inside the body that defiles a man but rather what goes out of it? Then why not eat blood, it's kinda contradicting, don't you think? Don't brag about your religion, as you guys only select what to follow from the bible and yet call yourselves righteous. Before you tell the splinter in your brother's eyes, look at the wood stucked in your eye, as those are preventing you from seeing what needs to be seen. Answer all my questions, because you keep on changing topic and defending your stand, rather than answering the questions. Starting from the Authenticity of the Bible being the word of God, all the way to my above question.
Romans 16:16 was your famous verse, but do you guys really do that? What is your holy kiss, hypocrisy?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
answer is very simple, i have said it.
polygamy is practiced widely during that time. Qur'an limited its number for caring widows and orphan due to the tribal wars.As Qur'an is consistant, the 'marry one' command is widely practising now.
be honest,my parents have more than 5 siblings and grand parenst have more than 13 siblings, in our big family, no one practiced polygamy, that's why i said its very less among muslims
and about the feelings of wives u asked,
allah is well aware about it, that why HE said
but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, (with them), then only one' [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
this is what most of the muslims doing.
then God says
'It is very difficult to be just and fair between women'. [Al-Qur'an (4:129)]
so its not against to morality and commandments.
here simply the reasoning and verse ends.
so please dont say its rubbish reasoning because Qur'an is the only religious scripture in the world that says 'marry only one'.
this is the humble answer i am giving from first, and i dont care what u feel about it, but i belive its the word of GOD, so its God's will and pro GOD simply.(from the testimony of scientists)
u can accept or reject it!
no matter that !
because as u know islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
actullay, be honest i did'nt aim to attack christainity, but i felt that u justfy islam with your doctrine, that's why i am forced to cite the flaws i learnt through fresh minded reading Bible, u may or may not answer, i dont care about it!
wasalaam love u alot bro
you but it was not meant to be.
You have not answered my question. First, you said it is writen n Quran that Allah commanded to marry only one, why is it not put into practice, it means you are not following Allah, very simple, isn't it. Now if other verses, He allows multi-marriage, the it cntradict the first verse you quoted. Which is which?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
sir, if i wrote anything hurting u, i am so sorry for it, and insha allah i will not repeat it!,(because islam taught me to ask forgiveness) but really these days your words hurted me alot from the first statment u said" everyone laugh at sister fatima", at the time i called u brother, check it all!
9)I am amazed that u allows seperation in 'extreme' circumstances (even though it's againts God's will!), yet doesnt allow re-marry? Why? Why is it so sinful to remarry?
10)when i asked about the legalised prostitution and divorce at wink of an eye in christian countries,killing innocent civilians in iraq and afganistan, u said they are not true christians,
now i have to ask u the same words
Was that the teachings of christainity? I know not, but in practice, very contradictory, indeed. And that's where the additional thinking should be done by TRUE CHRISTIANS LIKE YOU. Why can't U put in practice what U preach?The truthfulness of a religion is are you practicing the good values it teaches? Or you just pray and pray and never mind the condition of other? Where is compassion? Where is justice?
11)Didnt God say in the bible:
6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 7 "You shall have no other gods before [Or besides] me. [Deuteronomy 5:6-7 (New International Version)]
and didnt he say:
8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, [Deuteronomy 5:8-9 (New International Version)]
Amazing isnt it? How we just convinienty 'forget' this commandments?
12)'''two comments:
1. Jesus is not only a prophet, He is the Son of God
2. If you believe in Jesus, you should be Christian, not a Muslim'''
i belive in Jesus(pbh), and i am a muslim!!!
so i refuted your second comment!
and about the first comment, read it, i said it earlier, but u carefully ignored!
13)Sinless and Son of God
Do you know how many times the words 'Son Of God' are used in the bible!
For example:
38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. [Luke 3:38 (New International Version)]
Angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament. Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Psalms 29:1; 89:6. Daniel 3:25 Hebrews 1:5 "You are my Son; today I have begotten you." Psalms 2:7 David is stating what God has proclaimed regarding David's relationship to God "I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: he said to me, 'you are my Son; this day have I begotten you."
And, for arguement's sake, so what if Jesus is sinless? Does that mean he should be punished and tortured for everyone else's sin? You speak about issues such as divorce in Islaam, yet your 'Lord' is being killed and tortuted by man? And for what? For OTHER people's sin? This is either saddistic or pure evil!
The bible is VERY VERY clear:
“The soul who sins is the one who will die . The son will not share the guilt of the father , nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
"But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?” [Ezekiel 18: 20 -23 NIV, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2018;&version=31;]
first u asked me 6 things, i answered it with pleasure, now i am asking the above 13 things, if u did'nt answer it, i will repeat the above 13 again and again, insha allah
yes, everybody please refer all the posts and try to discover who first said
"Your religion is not pro GOD"
And who unnecessarily repeated foolish allegations against Islam even after clear answers are given from his own words.
plz check, u can find the real culprit who asked 6 Q, and after answering all not ready to stop the repeatations.
And who forced me to ask about the authenticity of bible here!!!
an innocent truth seeker can easily grasp my answers well.no one will say its rubbish except u.
'''if you allowed these three things to be practiced, it means that it is sanctioned by your religion. '''
its the rubbish statement.
now u added child marriage into the list, but i already said child marriage is nothing in islam. its almost a cultural practice, u can see it in north india among hindus, our national father Mahatma Gandhi married in his 13 and kastoorba gandhi aged 11.
anasfk said a practical reasoning for polygamy when Qureshi asked, but my post is based on the verses, so if some one did divorce at "wink-of-an-eye", it does'nt mean that its the fault of our religion but its the fault of its wrong followers as u said its very less in number like the crime statictics in philippine, a good country u claim!u can find wrong doers in your own doctrine.
Each one is responsible for his own sins, not what the faith he belongs to. as coelacanth bro said ""it looks like you generalize the muslim from some minorities about their actions, and then you don't want to be generalized yourself? ""
if a new and good conditioned car got an accident by the false driving of a drank driver, assume
do we blame the car?
or do we blame the driver?
'''But if the wife becomes old and ugly, then Islam tells you to find a younger one and more beautiful than your wife!'''
even after my clear answers..............
These statement really hurt my heart, in my da'wa experience no one said these type of foolish statements, your words proves your character well here.
one of my hindu friend who complted MBA with distinction embraced Islam by reading Holy Qur'an, we taught her arab,after she said "witness", my cousine brother married her, when comparing the words of u and her, I feel pity on u.
'''It's just a matter of what is more important, God or this world? If you choose this world, it means you DON'T love God so you are not to remain in our religion. That simple. Actually, the fact that "NO EXPULSION" is practice in Islam and other religion makes it hard for them to reason-out for misdeed by their members. Islam should start expelling undesirables but there's none in your side.'''
how can we change the culture of a country? the faith is simply "there is no GOD other than the only one true GOD, Jesus, Moses, Muhammed etc are his messengers. we love GOD and follow his final revealtion holy Qur'an.and we belive its divine, i have given the testimony of well known scientists to prove our belife. if u cannot accept it is no matter! u have your doctrine! well we have 2 million truth seekers every year who r embracing islam from asia, europe, africa,australia, latin america and north america, islam does not need cunning fellows like u!
'''Just keep asking you unimportant questions and maybe I'll find time to answer it (firstly, if you satisfy my querries).'''
who said all those are unimportant???
all those Qs are very very important FLAWS in Your doctrine. as u cannot answer them clearly proves Your Doctrine is "nothing", so justifying other religions (not religions, u look at the minority practices)with your "nothing" doctrine proves your hypocracy
the lengthy process of divorce is not based on money, but based on time of 3 months again 3 months and so on.
If you read about divorce, you will see that there are stages and even inbetween those stages, there are chances for the couple to get back together.
'''Social injustice.
One example, because a big country is doing social injustice (as they perceived), the solution is to bring down the World Trade Centers and kill innocent people. Is this what these "non-real Muslims" (but still they claim they are Muslims), claimed?
So if you are unlucky and your marriage becomes SOUR, the solution is divorce and marry again. I find it pathetic!!!!''''
i have cleared about terrorism, polygamy and divorce well here (with the last child marriage, a funny claim)
now my response is below
I will not argue with someone like you. You are not worth it. Bring it to your grave and let's just see what happened in the end. It's your life not mine. But one thing is sure, your life is empty. Me, I am fully contented with my belief and no doubt of anything. You, just be honest with yourself! The way you argue things prove that something is lacking in your life! And that's what I pity about you!!!!
1)according to bro dmighty solomon
abraham married 2 wives against to God's will.
solomon married 100 wives against to morality.
now he will say
''Well you can always quote that Abraham and Solomon and other prophets may have many wives, but that is during their time. When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it.''
brother dmightysolomon, if i did'nt accpet the above answer of yours, wat will u do to justify their marriages???
2)Show me where Jesus Or God says to MARRY ONLY ONE in the bible???
!Qur'an is the only religious scripture in the world that says 'marry only one'
3)and plz give me a bible verse for supporting your below statement
""let a separated man remains separated and can never marry again unless the spouse dies (and so the ties that bonded the marriage is already broken) and the living person can marry again.""
(i am asking this Q 5th time!!!)
4)Are these the word of God?
do christians consider the books that i am listing below to be the word of God? if no then please explain why are thy not the word of God.
These books are also attributed to prophets or disciples (ofcourse there is no strong evidence, but then the books in the Bible are no better)
The Book of Adam and Eve
Book of Jubilees
Book of Enoch
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Proto-Gospel of James
The Gnostic Scriptures of Nag Hammadi
The Gospel of Mary
The Gospel of Nicodemus
The Apocalypse of Peter
The Second Apocalypse of Peter
The Testament of Solomon
The Zohar (The Book of Splendor)
The Alphabet of Ben-Sira
Joseph and Aseneth
The Septuagint
Bel and the Dragon
The Acts of Peter
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
Mar Saba letter and The Secret Gospel of Mark
The Gospel of Judas
5) how can you claim to be following the true teachings of Jesus? Do you know about constantine and Nicea?
6)how can u say your bible is the only one trustworthy source?. The authors are unknown (according to biblical scholars- also see the encylopeadia britannica!) and it contains contradictions and scientific errors.
7)can u give an assurance that your bible is perfectly preserved from the first revealation of Jesus(the real Gospel called injeel)to 2008 december 2???
8)u preached a lot about MORAL VALUES, plz read the below bible verses
I CAN’T TELL IT, read it by yourself
II SAMUEL-CHAPTER 11 VERSE 2 TO 5
II SAMUEL-CHAPTER 13 VERSE 1 TO 14
GENESIS 19 VERSES 30 TO 38
Numbers 31:35-40
Numbers 31:17-18
AND JUSTIFY IT ACCORDING TO YOUR DOCTRINE???
Yeah...best example of those lessons taught in the bible...an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. He is just practicing what is written on it, i suppose.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
I never mentioned that, but you keep on mentioning Bible is Corrupt, is that not a sort of abuse. I told, I have never read Quran so I can not say something about it unless you quote it. But saying Bible is corrupt repeatedly is a big abuse.
If I say rubbish, I don't meant to offend, I am referring to reasoning being given which is beyond what is being discussed. It your interpretation against mine.
But if I offended you, I am sorry, not meant to be. But check the previous posts of your sister.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
definitely not me. I tried to be as respectful as I am, but she started it. Sorry if I offended you, but check again!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
How dare you say my sister fathima's reasonings are all rubbish.?
How dare you insult my sister.?
Who are you to judge that.?
If you cant agree with our statements then give me your statements from your side and ur religion and reply here.
Is this the way of answering a qstn/comment.?
Do you think that with your abusive comments we wil stay back. and the truth wil go change...??????? And we wil stop posting here.....?
Never brother, u r mistaken.....? if you dont hv proper answer means jst posting non-related things and abusing us ryt....? from where did u learn all these culutres...????????
First of all learn to behave.....!!!!! If u dont knw., thn ask us we wil teach you to behave in polite & kind manner.
NOTE FOR ALL QL members..PLZ DONT REPEAT ABUSIVE WORDS and PERSONAL ATTACKS LIKE THIS. Who ever it may....? and to whom ever it may.....?
Thanking you always,
Malabari
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Hmmmm...it looks like you generalize the muslim from some minorities about their actions, and then you don't want to be generalized yourself? It's not about the teaching in the bible...it's about the bible. How can you consider Jesus to be the Messiah, the saviour, if according to your bible, he didn't even qualify to be called one? that changes everything! Believe in the teaching and not on the situation again? How many visited Jesus on his "ressurection"? All 4 gospels who are "inspired" by your so-called "holy spirit" are inconsistent of the fact, which drives us to conclude that the bible is based on hear-say and not from God. I think i asked you this question but you want me to focus on the teaching and not the situation? A flaw in the bible is accepted by turning the cheek and bashing those who do not believe on it?
I stand corrected if he who is resting in peace now is not your founder. I know someone who can talk to the dead, and he confirmed the existence of God, but not of heaven or hell, as what the bible uses to scare people into believing.
As my previous post, the "God" who made the bible are men who voted which book to include and which not. Malabari and sisterfatima have lots of books that they mentioned, but because it was not voted, it didn't become the "word of God".
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
because I have not read it. The practice of religion is based on the teachings. I am commenting on the practices, not the book. But since both defenders keep on mentioning Quran, I don't question the book per se, but the practices which they based on their understanding of the book.
Now, since you are fellow countryman, well, if you can cite any practice of ours which is against Bible teachings, then cite it (with proof).
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
our doctrine does not specify whether Christ is Bastard or not? I won't even be surprise if you are an ex-member of us. Tell me, can you ask him directly, because right now, our beloved brother is resting in peace? Now if you the gift to talk to DEAD people, please do so!
BTW, he is not our founder. Another MISINTERPRETATION of yours again. I really pity you for your misunderstanding!!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
This is a baseless argument & you people are making the subject much complicated.........I must use a scientific term CALIBRATION.............Please get your philosophy calibrated on specified book, let' say "Quran".....................and go a head for your purpose "to prove that it is the most perfect in accordance with practical applications".....pls don't use other religious boos of references to prove the verses of Quran.
dmightysolomon...can you tell me how can i interpret that verse based on the teaching of your good founder, Felix Manalo? There is nothing missing in my life...so don't feel sorry for me. If you can talk to your good pastor and ask to interpret why Jesus is not a bastard based on Deuteronomy, a book from the Bible, then i would appreciate a response. You don't want to accept the flaw on your Bible and yet you keep on finding flaws on the Qu'ran?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
An excerpt from a letter written by Tom Paine, a Deist. (source: http://www.deism.com/bibleorigins.htm)
"But by what authority do you call the Bible the Word of God? for this is the first point to be settled. It is not your calling it so that makes it so, any more than the Mahometans calling the Koran the Word of God makes the Koran to be so. The Popish Councils of Nice and Laodicea, about 350 years after the time the person called Jesus Christ is said to have lived, voted the books that now compose what is called the New Testament to be the Word of God. This was done by yeas and nays, as we now vote a law.
"The Pharisees of the second temple, after the Jews returned from captivity in Babylon, did the same by the books that now compose the Old Testament, and this is all the authority there is, which to me is no authority at all. I am as capable of judging for myself as they were, and I think more so, because, as they made a living by their religion, they had a self-interest in the vote they gave.
You may have an opinion that a man is inspired, but you cannot prove it, nor can you have any proof of it yourself, because you cannot see into his mind in order to know how he comes by his thoughts; and the same is the case with the word revelation. There can be no evidence of such a thing, for you can no more prove revelation than you can prove what another man dreams of, neither can he prove it himself.
"It is often said in the Bible that God spake unto Moses, but how do you know that God spake unto Moses? Because, you will say, the Bible says so. The Koran says, that God spake unto Mahomet, do you believe that too? No.
"Why not? Because, you will say, you do not believe it; and so because you do, and because you don't is all the reason you can give for believing or disbelieving except that you will say that Mahomet was an impostor. And how do you know Moses was not an impostor?
"For my own part, I believe that all are impostors who pretend to hold verbal communication with the Deity. It is the way by which the world has been imposed upon; but if you think otherwise you have the same right to your opinion that I have to mine, and must answer for it in the same manner. But all this does not settle the point, whether the Bible be the Word of God, or not. It is therefore necessary to go a step further. The case then is: -
"You form your opinion of God from the account given of Him in the Bible; and I form my opinion of the Bible from the wisdom and goodness of God manifested in the structure of the universe, and in all works of creation. The result in these two cases will be, that you, by taking the Bible for your standard, will have a bad opinion of God; and I, by taking God for my standard, shall have a bad opinion of the Bible.
"The Bible represents God to be a changeable, passionate, vindictive being; making a world and then drowning it, afterwards repenting of what he had done, and promising not to do so again. Setting one nation to cut the throats of another, and stopping the course of the sun till the butchery should be done. But the works of God in the creation preach to us another doctrine. In that vast volume we see nothing to give us the idea of a changeable, passionate, vindictive God; everything we there behold impresses us with a contrary idea - that of unchangeableness and of eternal order, harmony, and goodness.
"The sun and the seasons return at their appointed time, and everything in the creation claims that God is unchangeable. Now, which am I to believe, a book that any impostor might make and call the Word of God, or the creation itself which none but an Almighty Power could make? For the Bible says one thing, and the creation says the contrary. The Bible represents God with all the passions of a mortal, and the creation proclaims him with all the attributes of a God.
"It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man. That bloodthirsty man, called the prophet Samuel, makes God to say, (I Sam. xv. 3) `Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'
"That Samuel or some other impostor might say this, is what, at this distance of time, can neither be proved nor disproved, but in my opinion it is blasphemy to say, or to believe, that God said it. All our ideas of the justice and goodness of God revolt at the impious cruelty of the Bible. It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
My God! Copy and Paste city here! Does anyone actually have time to read it all?......I think i'd have to become an aethist, never realised religions were so bloody complicated!
in your heart. Is that how you understand Bible verses? Are you given the insight of interpreting it the way you want it interpreted?
I will not argue with someone like you. You are not worth it.
If that's your interpretation, so be it. Bring it to your grave and let's just see what happened in the end. It's your life not mine. But one thing is sure, your life is empty. Me, I am fully contented with my belief and no doubt of anything. You, just be honest with yourself!
The way you argue things about the Bible prove that something is lacking in your life! And that's what I pity about you!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
dmightysolomon...
You want some proof that the Bible is wrong? Read this: Deuteronomy 23:2-3, which says that NO BASTARD (children born out of wedlock) or HALF BREED or MOABITE or AMONITE shall enter the assembly of the Lord; even to the tenth generation none of his descendants shall enter the assembly of the Lord FOREVER.
That is to say both David and Christ ARE ACCURSED BY GOD because of their Moabite ancestry via Ruth the Moabite who married Boaz, cf. Ruth 4:13-22 and 1 Chronicles 2:1-15 enumerating King David's descent from Ruth the Moabite. In David's case, he is a "3rd generation Moabite" in descent, he should NEVER had been allowed to be Israel's king or Messiah.
Jesus Christ, according to Deuteronomy 23:2-4 is disqualified as being God's annointed Messiah for the following reasons:
1. He has Moabite blood via Ruth (Ru 4:13-22), the greatgrandmother of king David.
2. He has Ammonite blood via Naamah (1 Ki 14:21,31) the wife of king Solomon and mother of king Rehoboam.
3. He is a descendant of Ben-ammi, A BASTARD who was conceived in an incestuous act between Lot and his younger daughter (via Naamah's Ammonite ancestry).
Note: a bastard is a person born outside of holy wedlock or marriage. We are not informed Lot "married" his daughters.
4. He is a descendant of Moab, A BASTARD who was conceived in an incestuous act between Lot and his older daughter (via Ruth's Moabite ancestry).
All this is to say on the basis of the Holy Spirit inspiring Moses to pen Deuteronomy 23:2-4, neither David or his descendants, including Jesus Christ, should have ever been allowed to be a part of the Holy Congregation much less be portrayed in the Bible as God-approved annointed Messiahs and leaders of the Holy Congregation!
And, had Phineas been alive in the days of Boaz and Ruth as well as the days of Solomon and Naamah he probably whould have slain them like he did Cosbi the Midianite daughter of Moab and her Israelite husband.
A Holy Spirit that bears witness against itself with contradictions is not real, its bogus and so too is the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments.
Bible God putting ETERNAL DAMNATION on BASTARDS, and here you are WORSHIPPING a Bastard by the name of Jesus, whom God already DAMNED since the time he was born? Who says he's the Son of God, the Bible? The same Bible who Damned the Bastards forever?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Social injustice.
One example, because a big country is doing social injustice (as they perceived), the solution is to bring down the World Trade Centers and kill innocent people. Is this what these "non-real Muslims" (but still they claim they are Muslims), claimed?
So if you are unlucky and your marriage becomes SOUR, the solution is divorce and marry again. I find it pathetic!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Thanks for your reply,
@sister fatima, how can you give example of @Somebody having 20 wives in one of remote tribe in Africa,
Why are you again using reference from Deuteronomy to use it against Bible.
etc,etc,etc,
@ Anasfk, do you really know what is the difference between philosophy/theory v/s Prctical model. Do you know all your write-up is theory based on the imaginations such as; if you you are married, if somebody doesn't get married.........my dear tell us the living prctical examples.....if we follow your theory staritnf from your writeup where you say " BUT LATER IT WILL DECREASE GRADUALLY (NOT THEORY, ITS PRACTICAL).......everybody will get bore from his life after few years & will divorc the wife & get another marriage.
etc,etc,etc.
You are messed up & messing up the subject
practicality.
So, if you are not contended with the first, get a second. If it is still insufficient, get a third, and if you are so unlucky and still not contented, get a fourth! What kind of reasoning is that? So inequality in Islam is very prevalent, I supposed so. It means that if you are poor, you can not divorce your wife because you need money for the process.
But if you are rich (you say practicality, so let us be practical) you have money for the process and "voila!!!" you can get another wife or wives again.
The only solution that is good to God is dedicate each selves to God's commandment and the marriage will be successful and blessed.
But if the wife becomes old and ugly, then Islam tells you to find a younger one and more beautiful than your wife!
Is my analysis correct, Mr. Anas?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
if you allowed these three things to be practiced, it means that it is sanctioned by your religion. Whatever you say, it will end up in one thing, Islam sanctioned it.
The process of "divorce" as you claimed is long, well think again, it will be long for Muslim with NO MONEY. But for wealthy Muslim, it's just a "wink-of-an-eye" (now, if you don't understand this phrase, ask somebody knowledgeable). Dare to contradict? I learned it in actual practice of Muslim I know and also based on past forum topic here in QL.
Now if you are talking about cultural against religious things, I'll tell you, we are already big in the west, and divorce is just a natural thing there, but still our members will face the consequence of expulsion if they do it. It's just a matter of what is more important, God or this world? If you choose this world, it means you DON'T love God so you are not to remain in our religion. That simple. Actually, the fact that "NO EXPULSION" is practice in Islam and other religion makes it hard for them to reason-out for misdeed by their members. Islam should start expelling undesirables but there's none in your side.
Just keep asking you unimportant questions and maybe I'll find time to answer it (firstly, if you satisfy my querries).
Good morning!!!!!!!!!!!!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Dear Qureshi2K,
If u thinks with logic or reasonably, u can reach the answer for ur qstn.”the practical example of multi marriage”
Islam never stands only in theoretical philosophy.
Islam’s teachings are purely for practical life.
Hope that matters cleared from that speech of Dr. Zakir naik about the “multi marriage”
Why I was posted that video link, coz, he is a well speaker and he can convey easily rather than me by the understandable words and coatings from the various scriptures (if need).
Even though I ‘l try to explain the practical situation about this.
Just take the life of u. (for example only)
If u married and u r happy with ur wife and kids.
Those intial periods just after marriage will b very interested and pleasure full.
But later that will decrease gradually…(Not theory, Its practical)
At that time if u got another one chance to have a relation with somebody, u never think about ur wife or kid if u r not fearing GOD.
U wil go for the other relations unknowingly ur wife.
Or,
Unfortunately, after ur marriage u realized that ur spouse not matching u by the thinking, by the idea abt life, or she s not respecting u, or she s not ready to live according to ur desire, or irritating/insulting u always.. or she is has lot of bad characters , rude behavior or she ‘l go for outing alone, coming only late night, not obey u…like that…like that……
What u will do????? (By practical)
Will u stay all ur life with her? And r u ready to spoil ur life by saying “Its my fate”??
Practically u cant……..!
Surely u will go for the wrong relationships, Pubs, dating and all such immoral activities…for fulfilling ur desire (As westerners doing. It’s practical)
So Islam giving u a chance to escape from such a situation by Divorce. (If happened like that).
Its not a simple procedure.
If u study about that, It’s a longer process.
In that period, ur wife can admit the troubles she made on u and ready to change her attitude and she may came to a new life with u as a good wife. (Practically possible)
(U can c these in family courts by the counselors)
Another one matter,
Statistics says female population is very much higher than male all over the world.
So how can be possible a married life for all females. (think practically)
If ur sister, or ur daughter….If they r not getting anybody to marry…
What will happen????
surely they wil have some relationship with others or they want to go for public to fulfill there desire.
Nobody can live virgin through out the life , according to the field experts ( we all getting the news and stories that happening daily in our surroundings and throughout the world)
So it is Social injustice.
So Islam giving the solution for that by the polygamy. One who can afford another one wife and can fulfill her in all aspects, then he can do..
But only one thing is do justice between them.
By this v can avoid such a evil and dirty practice of multi sexual partners (happening among westerners).
To avoid a great trouble Islam advising to do so.
Allah Says in Holy Quran 2:216
Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Platao36 said
"On the present time the most important thing is that all that love God unite themselfs, doesn't matter if u are jew, christian or muslim, fight hate with love, show to the world that God's love is stronger than the hate caused by humans....."
Plato, you are a true muslim whether muslims like malabari or sisfatima admit it or not! But the essence of Islam is just that as Islam demands its followers to respect all prophets and love each other. I respect your ideology brother.
God bless you.
the answers are very simple
1.Polygamy
do u know about men having more than 20 wives, u can see it in deep tribals of african countries not in the name of islam, but in the name of a cultural practice.
polygamy is practiced widely during that time. Qur'an limited its number for caring widows and orphan due to the tribal wars.As Qur'an is consistant(unlike bible), the 'marry one' command is widely practising now.
according to bro dmighty solomon
abraham married 2 wives against to God's will.
solomon married 100 wives against to morality.
now he will say
''Well you can always quote that Abraham and Solomon and other prophets may have many wives, but that is during their time. When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it.''
and i wonder why he cannot accept his own words when it comes to islam? may be due to his hypocracy!
'''do you have anybody in your family or in your close friend circle who has more than one wife......if yes, then what about his family life??????'''
be honest,my parents have more than 5 siblings and grand parenst have more than 13 siblings, in our big family, no one practiced polygamy, that's why i said its very less among muslims
and about the feelings of wives u asked,
allah is well aware about it, that why HE said
but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, (with them), then only one' [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
this is what most of the muslims doing.
then God says
'It is very difficult to be just and fair between women'. [Al-Qur'an (4:129)]
so its not against to morality and commandments.
Show me where Jesus Or God says to MARRY ONLY ONE in the bible!Qur'an is the only religious scripture in the world that says 'marry only one' Qur'an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase 'marry only one'. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife.
2.Divorce
according to hadeeds, in the permitted things, divorce is the worst thing to GOD.
Islaam allows divorce as a LAST resort and this divorce is in a lengthy process of waiting periods. You don’t simply just say 'divorce' and it happens. Many things need to be considered first.but is allowed when things are too bad to work out. If you read about divorce, you will see that there are stages and even inbetween those stages, there are chances for the couple to get back together.
that's why i said, if u refer in wikipedia rates or encyclopedia rates, the world divorce rate is very less among muslims, this again proves my point, islam is pro-GOD.
and plz give me a bible verse for supporting your below statement
""let a separated man remains separated and can never marry again unless the spouse dies (and so the ties that bonded the marriage is already broken) and the living person can marry again.""
(i am asking this Q 4th time!!!)
I am amazed that u allows seperation in 'extreme' circumstances (even though it's againts God's will!), yet doesnt allow re-marry? Why? Why is it so sinful to remarry?
and again u have any doubt about it, my clear answer is
When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it
u r justifying divorce on the basis of your bible, i said its not authentic and trustworthy, u respond nothing against it! so your allegations are illogical and utter rubbish.
3. Child marriage
Qur'an or hadeed nowhere tell to marry child, so no missinterpretation there.
in my class, hindu sisters get married before muslims.
and plato answered it well that
that's a cultural matter and not religious, in Europe, some centuries ago, it would happen just the same.
'''Do you have any reference of such claim or blame that other religion are amended or changed...........'''
Deuteronomy 4:2 clearly declares that the Bible is corrupt!
that is human hands worked behind it to destroy its divinity.
'''why did you use references from Bible......'''
because i am reading bible from my age 10, also have different bibles in home, if i did'nt use references before solomon brother, i can't stand infront of him to prove my claims.
'''Please give me logical reasoning and do not resort to other thing. I told you, I practice all those things Bro Malabri mentioned in his original posts, except the pork issue which I would gladly discussed once I checked the verses mentioned. But let us concentrate in two or three things, divorce, multi-marriage and child marriage.'''
brother malabari already given logical reasoning for divorce, dont u see?, brother malabari kindly re post it!
'''You mind your business regarding proving the practice of "divorce" and "multi-marriage" in Islam, Are these practices pro- or against God basic commandments.'''
dear all brothers, i have answered all those here well, now note him that he answered my below Questians
1)Are these the word of God?
do christians consider the books that i am listing below to be the word of God? if no then please explain why are thy not the word of God.
These books are also attributed to prophets or disciples (ofcourse there is no strong evidence, but then the books in the Bible are no better)
The Book of Adam and Eve
Book of Jubilees
Book of Enoch
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Proto-Gospel of James
The Gnostic Scriptures of Nag Hammadi
The Gospel of Mary
The Gospel of Nicodemus
The Apocalypse of Peter
The Second Apocalypse of Peter
The Testament of Solomon
The Zohar (The Book of Splendor)
The Alphabet of Ben-Sira
Joseph and Aseneth
The Septuagint
Bel and the Dragon
The Acts of Peter
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
Mar Saba letter and The Secret Gospel of Mark
The Gospel of Judas
2) how can you claim to be following the true teachings of Jesus? Do you know about constantine and Nicea?
3)how can u say your bible is the only one trustworthy source?. The authors are unknown (according to biblical scholars- also see the encylopeadia britannica!) and it contains contradictions and scientific errors.
4)can u give an assurance that your bible is perfectly preserved from the first revealation of Jesus(the real Gospel called injeel)to 2008 december 2???
and about the contradictions u asked, i will admit 101 insha allah.
but before, i want answers for the above 4.
if i did'nt satisfy with your answers, i will ask the same Qs repeatedly, insha allah till my last breath.
i am sure u will deliberately avoid or carefully ignore my above 4 Qs.
but i will not stop asking until i get answers
and i will not answer your Qs until i get answers for 101 contradictins, insha allah
Do you mean to say that all other religion have been changed, then
1) why did you use references from Bible......
2) secondly you are blaming the people for destroying, changing/amnding their own religious laws.
3)Do you have any reference of such claim or blame that other religion are amended or changed...........
4) What would you say about Islam, it has more than 70 divisions......definately there must be some differences among them.....how are those differences created!!!!!!!!!!!
as you can see Qureshi, they can not explain clearly the "multi-marriage" thing in Islam. Our dear brother ended it up by saying we should view it inside and not outside which is plain reasoning and not even a good reason. Well, if any Muslim man with many wives will allow us to live with them and observed it within, I may obliged.
And as our Bro Malabari admitted, marriage is not sex alone (can you please explain this, brother?). Are all the wives same age and looks? Are you sure they are given the same treatment in all aspects of married life? Do you think a Muslim man will treat a 50-year old wife and a 25 year-old women the same? What does a "partial wife" think if she knew that her husband is in another bed with another younger or more beautiful wife? Does equal treatment means equal sharing in "sex" and attention? Where is equality a true equality in Islam's "multi-marriage"?
Bro Qureshi, let us wait our Bro Malabari's response.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
WIth respect to your qstn. and our sister & brother Moneera & Qadeem, what they told are correct. All Prophet (Peace be upon them) came with same message of Oneness of Allah (Tawheed) but the peoples tried to destroy or change or ammend the beliefs/Religous laws according to peoples wish & will at living time of prophets and after them also. And in the time of other prophets (peace be upon them) and their srciputures, it didnt told tat they are the last prophet. That means still prophets to come. But in Quran allah says Muhammed(peace be upon him) is the last messenger and Quran is the last guide for the human kind. note the point here, Allah says Quran is the only guide to whole human kind,not only for muslims. And as Allah says in the quran that he will protect this Quran until the day of judgement with out changing a single dot. if you check the First Quran - till this time. nobody cant change its single dot.Allahu Akbarwalillaaaahi Hamdh. This statement is the one of the Unique miracle of Quran, is approved by world's most Historical & Research related peoples.
Brother Quershi still lot of miracles are there,....i wil give you insha allah
Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Have you got the answer from dear malbari for issue on marriage........what's your opinion
As you said that all Prophets were from God & preached same religion, then why there are so many differences that........ people following one religion claim that anybody following other religion will go to hell..........howcome the differences became so great & fatal. Every religion tries to prove that other is wrng!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you aware that, these difference are the main cause of major wars& bloodshed of humanbeings!!!!!!!!!!!
who will be converted to our religion, then they are the one who can initiate to build a house of worship, well, then, you should allow propagation of our doctrines here (but from what I heard, you don't allow Bible study here in Qatar.
So again, my Brother Malabari, where is respect for other religion there that Islam claims? For our particular religion, how can we asked citizen of this country to convert if they can not even listen to our teachings? And who built the Catholic church here, Qatari citizen? Wasn't it financed by Vatican City.
So if you allow Vatican to build a church here, why not us? You should already doubt your religion even only about this "respect for other religion" thing. You are saying you respect us, but you do not allow us freely practice our service to God/Allah. For this thing alone, you do not practice what you teach!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
with respect to your qstn "You said in Quran, marry one. Why in practice they allow four? Sound contradicting, eh! Does it mean Muslim, for this particular teaching, doesn't follow Quran."
Quran says marry only one, if you cant be justice to your other wives.
How can one love his wife when he has another two or three? Did God in particular give blessing or approval for the second, third or fourth wife? How were you brainwashed to accept to keep quiet when you know your husband is with another woman? Because Marriage is not only for sexual purpose. we have to love them, we have to feed them, we have to give all living facilites. Then only Muslims used to call it as a marriage. then if you want to understand how the love & peace happening in this marriage life ??? you cant understand it by watching it frm outside. for Eg: if you want to know hw Doctor is doing treatment means, you also have to learn that from its real source. then only you wil understand
i didnt get ur answers for old qstns towards you regarding Bible. but again again your skiping that point ryt......Y are you geting migraine to answr that qstn...?
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Yes sure these email from our dear malbari are causing migraine to me as well.............once he is been questioned for North...he replies about east....too hapazard, & its not good tactics to distract the topic......i feel this might be an out-come of Muslin-cum-Christian Philosophy
Your Qstn: Was is not the granting of Catholic to build their church here is as an exchange for Muslim to build a mosque in the Vatican City? What about other religion? In the Philippines, Mosques are allowed to be built anywhere, but all other churches are also free to build their own houses of worship. Why can't it be done here in the GCC?
hahahah, wat a joke yaaaaaaaaar, see in all these countries as you mentioned the Masjids are builing by the Muslim Citizens of that country, not from the Chruch's Fund or Govt Funds. The Citizens from that country, they are builing from their Money & their rights of buildling worship homes in their own country. If any Citizens in the GCC countries, who are Christain means means they can also build . But No Christains wat to do dear....Each and every corners of the World Muslims are there and Muslim Citizens are there who belongs to Christain Countries too. But Christains are not there. So hw can other Countrie's people can cum and build. They even cant build their own home in other countries unless they got the citizenship of that country. For Eg: Am a muslim can i build a Masjid here......no not all.Then Will allow to build a room in your home to other peoples...Will you allow to build a Masjid inside you home. like that how can it too possible. Then we are Muslims we are praying 5 times a days. But you are praying jst in Church for only once or twice in week. am i correct my repsected brother. So dont try to skip the topic by saying someother things as my sister fathima told to you.
Hope now you understand the reason.
Thanking you always,
Brother Malabari.
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Regarding ur qstn abt the Masjids in GCC
Soloman man was asking y churches are not allowing to build in GCC countries, and Masjids are builded in Vatican City and other Christain countries.....i said and i meant -->see in all these countries as you mentioned the Masjids are builing by the Muslim Citizens of that country, not from the Chruch's Fund or Govt Funds. The Citizens from that country, they are builing from their Money & their rights of buildling worship homes in their own country. If any Citizens in the GCC countries, who are Christain means means they can also build . But No Christains wat to do dear....Each and every corners of the World Muslims are there and Muslim Citizens are there who belongs to Christain Countries too. got cleared, sorry if u feel any gramatical mistakes, as it was typed very quickly.
Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
two comments:
1. Jesus is not only a prophet, He is the Son of God
2. If you believe in Jesus, you should be Christian, not a Muslim
Qureshi, are you having migraine also by reading Malabari's post?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
What did you write about Building & funds for Church & Mosque is really not easy to understand......would you please explain again.
Infact Islam is the new and revised version of christianity. Both religions are from the Almighty Allah and like two branches of the same tree. Jesus was the prophet of Allah (not son) same like Muhammed (PBUH)and other prophets of Allah (around 124000). But keeping in view the geographical, political, economic and other conditions of the time, Allah send his message to the mankind through his prophets. As a muslim, I believe that Jesus is the true prophet of Allah and any body having doubt in this fact, is out of islam.
although I am getting a terrible headache reading your last post regarding building houses of worship, the way I understand it, is money used in building Mosque comes from where? Can you clarify it, I am really at lost in your grammar.
But here is my challenge to you, If the government of Qatar will allocate us a lot for lease for at 50 years here in Qatar, we can build our house of worship as we did in Bahrain. Actually, there are plans to build more houses of worship here in the Middle East because we want to follow His commandment to build Him Houses of Worship where us as true Christians can worship Him in the true way.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Adam, Abraham, David, Jesus, Mohammed, ect are all God's messengers. They all carry the same message "ISLAM" with different religions names. So, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are, in fact, very close to each other.
Its not complicated its a simple question......do you have anybody in your family or in your close friend circle who has more than one wife......if yes, then what about his family life??????
Moreover, would you please answer me for my first question as well?????
You said in Quran, marry one. Why in practice they allow four? Sound contradicting, eh! Does it mean Muslim, for this particular teaching, doesn't follow Quran.
Also, as Qureshi mentioned above, how can the four wives be equal when they are different people? How can one man equally treat four different people?
As to contradiction in Bible, I asked to cite which involved doctrines or God commandment. Don't give me the "scientific or whatever contradiction" because it will not affect my salvation and how I obeyed my God.
You mind your business regarding proving the practice of "divorce" and "multi-marriage" in Islam, Are these practices pro- or against God basic commandments.
I believe in these two commandments: What God had joined together, let no man put asunder and Love you wife as you love yourself!
How can one love his wife when he has another two or three? Did God in particular give blessing or approval for the second, third or fourth wife? How were you brainwashed to accept to keep quiet when you know your husband is with another woman? That is concubinage, and because he married these other women, it became legitimate? This is the reason why I call it "legalized immoral act".
And if you practice "divorce with re-marriage" and keep on mentioning so many reason, does it make it right? If the marriage is unsuccessful (it meant only that the marriage was not blessed by God, because if God blessed the union, it willlast a lifetime) by any reason you keep on mentioning, then by all means, separate but take the consequence of not to marry again so as to abide by God's will. So you won't break the law of God that what he joined together, let no man put asunder.
You keep on mentioning that divorce is prevalent in non-Muslim and less in Muslim, does it make divorce RIGHT in front of God/Allah? But of course, if one party dies, then the other party can re-marry. The point here is, if a religion practice "divorce with re-marriage", however small the statistics is, it is still illegal in God's will proving such religion is not true.
Please give me logical reasoning and do not resort to other thing. I told you, I practice all those things Bro Malabri mentioned in his original posts, except the pork issue which I would gladly discussed once I checked the verses mentioned. But let us concentrate in two or three things, divorce, multi-marriage and child marriage.
Good morning here and good afternoon there in India. May Allah give you the wisdom to open your mind and seek the truth!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
May allah reward you for your support and your efforts in this thread.
May almighty allah grace & guide all of us.....
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
What do you mean by Successfull & Practical example of common human beings.....?????????
what do u mean by this qstn..?
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Thanks for your comments, by the way if you are married....try for another one & experience it personally.....zakir niak is good in talking, i know very well.....in one of his debates he proved the meaning of Arabic word "Ayyam" as "years"......i am discussing the practical experiences not theories
@ sisterfatima & malbari; would you please let me know any successful & practical example of common human beings..
Dear Qureshi2K , Pls watch these two videos.
Surely u wil get the answer for ur qstn.
Pls be patient and watch both.
Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)(Holy QUran 2:216)
DMS: Just like sister fatima told, i'm a Deist, so, i'm not a part on the convertion "wars" ;)
Converting to Islam wont change who i am, i'll stay as racional as i am now, just like i pointed out, both the Bible and the Qur'an have some contradictions, but not by God/Allah or any of the profets fault, it's natural that after their death that the disciples (Jesus) and companions (Mohammed) couldn't remember all teachings exactly as the profets and had to select which were the correct texts and didn't included all of them, but we shouldn't think bad about the writters of both holly books, Moses, Jesus and Mohamed were special men and unfortunatelly they hadn't time to write thoose books themselfs, probably if they did we would all have found out that the present differences between Judaism, Islam and christianism, wouldn't exist anylonger, never forget the profets words about loving God/Allah and not them.
We should never forget that God is love and when you love you please God. He sees and knows everything, keep your hearts pure and you'll please him.
Sister Fatima, regarding Adam and Eve, their nudity represents their purity, after eating the forbiden fruit they started to feal ashamed and covered their genitals with leafs because they fealt ashamed of being presented nude at the eyes of Allah, as a muslim, you should know that because we aren't fully pure we may feal that nudity is wrong but to prevent it Mohammed advised you that when talking/preying to God, you should a modest tunique to cover our body, there will come the day when we'll be as pure as Adam and Eve were once.
Even Plato, the greek philosopher spoke about how humans were pure beings and that due to a sin (he doesn't specify which sin was it) we were punished by God/Allah to carry a physical body.
On the present time the most important thing is that all that love God unite themselfs, doesn't matter if u are jew, christian or muslim, fight hate with love, show to the world that God's love is stronger than the hate caused by humans.
Never forget that everything is submitted to God's law, may God bless us all and enlighten the way, no human owns the Trueth, only God/Allah ows it.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
Would you please tell us "How first wife feels, When thier husband brings 2nd wife, & what 1st & 2nd wives feel when the husband brings 3rd & what about the feeling of 1st, 2nd & 3rd when husband gets married to 4th one" and the same way "what a newly comming wife thinks about old ones"
By the way do the existing wives attend the new marriage ceremony of their husband, & what about our Muslim-Society in which we are living always see & say "aww 2nd marriage having one wife" Translation""Aww ek biwi hote howay dosri shadi karli".
By the way, we are talking about normal people....not about Prophets. So please reply as per to normal human life.
In the many practices you are asking, I am practicing it so
masha allah!
again my answer is your own words
When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it
and as a practice, i gave some issues to prove that both are practiced less among muslims.
u r taking out of context!
i said the reason behind the permission,
"marry one" command is only in Qur'an, how it is against to morality?
and i proved its the word of GOD from the statements of well known christian sceintists.
so its not against to God's will.
another miracle, is islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
but again u repeat proves your hypocracy clearly.
and about plato,(ask him about Jesus, he will say he is not God's son and Prophet) like coelacnth bro, he is a diest, when i posted science in Qur'an, bro coelcanth willing to read Qur'an, let them to read it!
plato, i know u follow reasonings and logic, so u cannot belive about judgement day, and dead people.
brother dmighty solomon answered his belif on both.
lakum deenukum valiya deen.
about clothing, i said it for answering brother dmight solomon's Questian below.
"When was clothes invented by man?
and i found nothing wrong in my answers, i qouted genesis
Adam and Eve sewed fig leaves into an apron (Genesis 3:7). The Hebrew word for the garment is chargorah,
i am stern in my answer.
after 2nd world war only the russian and europe clothing changed, look into past 1850 women observed long dresses.
but in 1950's the dressing reflected in tennis court.
and i said we follow mother marry in this case, and rebeca observed veil from bible.
u respond nothing against it!
perhaps jesus have beard, muslims grow sunnah beard to follow our apostle(S).
about child marriage, brother plato answered it well, jazaakallah.
'''The greetings, the prayers, all the applicable laws in the earliest time if not contradicting the Christian time is practice by us. And there are no contradiction there.'''
i did'nt get it, plz explain!
again your "not religion of GOD' claim, i answered well here, u respond nothing against it about the scientic accuracy and authenticity.
but u know bible will fail in the two tests
but i will not say u r not pro GOD, bcoz i will not hurt u brothers.
'''That is also the reason I said, that if you can convince me about these two things, maybe I can embrace Islam.'''
i answered it with your own words, if u cannot read it, wat can i do?
the word of God will not against to God's will simply.
and u very carefully ignored my Questins about the authenticity of Bible, well brother, its a good character, bcoz i am answering by touching all of your comments, so i am a funny infront of u well.
if i qouted contradictins here and u will simply avoid it i am sure.
Deuteronomy 4:2 clearly declares that the Bible is corrupt!
The different "Canons" of the Bible!
Different and conflicting variations of "gospels" and "books" that are disagreed upon by the Churches today.
i can admit some 101 contradictions here insha allah
but before u have to answer my questins regarding its authenticity, read my post previuos
1. Adam and Eve "thing" regarding cloths
2. Child marriage
3. Looted and not lutted
4. You still have many doubts, Platao, do not convert! Bro Malabari and Sisterfatima will agree with me in this last advice.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
sisterfatima:
"ii. Soul.
The soul goes into a world known as al – Barzakh. It’s like a transit place between this world and paradise and hell. No one can return from it. When the soul leaves the body, it goes up to the heavens to get registered and will be returned back to the grave (however still in this other world – sort of like another dimension you could say) and will get questioned. Depending on how the person was, he may get rewarded (with peaceful sleep and hanging out with other good people), or punished in his grave, until eternity. These punishments are to the soul, but are so intense at times, that they affect the body."
Would you keep this statement if you had the chance to talk to one of those souls? Some of us receive a big gift from God that it's to be able to talk to those people, as you can read on the bible where Saul goes see a necromancer before going to the battle where he died?
"I believe that from the first day (i.e. Adam and Eve), wore clothes. They were human and felt the shame of walking around naked, just as we do now. Women have always covered themselves up. It was after the world wars (second I think), when the (American) soldiers started finding dirty magazines in Europe, this led them to start their own immoral magazines (like playboy!) and shows and stuff, and eventually, women started removing more items of clothing until nothing was left. Women were turned into sexual objects and their bodies sold for money. And this evil spread all over the world, eventually."
So, it wasn't for eating the forbidden fruit that made Adam and Eve to run away and hide their nudity from the Almighty? When you are born you come with clothes?
If you can't look at nudity without pervertion, than you aren't any nearer of being pure.
Brother Malabari:
I'll reply to some of these questions:
2)Why the innocent peoples of Hiroshima & Nagasaki still suffering.What mistakes they did. still the babies are there and who are going to born too physicaly or mentaly affected know.?
The americans did, do you know why?
I tell you, Japonese would have killed thousands or millions of troops if there would be an earth invasion, a huge amount died but even more would have died but this doesn't mean that there's any turn the responsabilities off.
All nuclear/atomic weapons should be destroyed. Who'll be the 1st to do it? India, Pakistan, Israel, U.S., Russia, Iran, France, U.K.?
3)Who Colonized & Luted all other wealthy countries
What other wealthy countries?
4)Who Colonized India & luted all the wealth of India
Portuguese and English colonized India, don't know how much it was lutted, but if India was part of an European country shouldn't be that country's right to lute it and help the full country?
5)Who Colonized Africa then Tortured & Luted all its wealth.
Hmmmm, Arabs? Please read about world history, you'll find out that before Europeans, Africa had several countries that were part of the big Arab Empire, around the 8th century d.c.
6)Who is Luted Iraq's Wealth
The world lutes Iraqs wealth and pays with medicines, even if we can only see references to Americans abusing of it's wealth.
To al QLers, my opinion is just that, not an attack to any religion or faith and that's how it must be seen, feal free to agree or disagree, just don't be harsh on me for my opinions, dialogue is the way to Peace.
Dms:
"And another thing, CHILD MARRIAGE is also a practice in Islam, actually, very prevalent as we see in many posts here in QL. Does Islam allows it? If not, why is it happening?"
I do belive that it happens due to missinterpretation of the Qur'an.
In the time of Mohamed (PBUH) it could be normal to marry at 9 or 12 but that's only because on that time life expectancy would be around 35/40 years, nowadays it's updating some parts of the Shariah. But i do agree that's a cultural matter and not religious, in Europe, some centuries ago, it would happen just the same.
Now, i go out, hope that people keep a peacefull and constructive debate concerning this matters, like someone said: If you can't hold the fire, than you better leave the kitchen.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
"whoever the killers is a big sinner infront of ALLAH ALMIGHTY!"
May the killers of the innocents have severest of the torment in HELL.
Sister fatima and brother malabari say AAMEEN.
"salute to the officers who sacrified their lives to save our nation!"
May their souls smell the fragrance of Jannah.
Sister fatima and brother malabari say AAMEEN.
I say Ameen...
The BIBLE says, JESUS is THE LORD & SAVIOUR
But Quran Says, JESUS is only a Prophet like Mohd.
But,See, In Quran, in the book of Mariam, It clearly says, JESUS born by 'Kalima' means The Word from GOD'.
you are confused by your answers.
In the many practices you are asking, I am practicing it so I isolated "divorce" and "multi-marriage" because we don't practice it.
The greetings, the prayers, all the applicable laws in the earliest time if not contradicting the Christian time is practice by us. And there are no contradiction there.
ALL WHO SAW YOUR REASONING FOR "divorce" and "multi-marriage" WILL KNOW THAT IT ONLY PROVES THAT YOU ARE NOT THE RELIGION OF GOD. EVEN FOR ORDINARY MORALITY ISSUE, IT IS ALREADY NON-ACCEPTABLE. WELL, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION BUT YOU DON'T KNOW MY RELIGION, THAT IS WHY YOU ARE REACTING THAT WAY.
I told you already, except for that particular thing "divorce" and "multi-marriage", our religions have many similarities so I don't want to tackle those verses you are asking.
That is also the reason I said, that if you can convince me about these two things, maybe I can embrace Islam.
You keep on mentioning that these things also exist more in your "prceived Christian churches" and small percentage in Islam. Small percentage doesn't make it right in front of God.
Majority if not all the things that Bro Malabari is saying in the original post are practice by us, will that make me a Muslim, of course NOT, because we don't practice "divorce" and "multi-marriage". It's part of you dictrine, no doubt about it so I could not accept Islam.
And another thing, CHILD MARRIAGE is also a practice in Islam, actually, very prevalent as we see in many posts here in QL. Does Islam allows it? If not, why is it happening?
Do not convince me to throw away Bible teachings because "if" and only "if" ever you may cite what "seems" to be "imperfection" in Bible, it doesn't go against MORALITY ISSUE and GOD'S ORIGINAL WORDS.
IF YOU CAN CITE A BIBLE TEACHING/S THAT CONTRADICT GOD'S WILL OR WORDS, SHOW ME.
BUT THE THREE THINGS I MENTIONED -- DIVORCE, MULTI-MARRIAGE AND CHILD MARRIAGE, BEING PRACTICE IN ISLAM, IS AGAINST MORALITY AND GOD'S ORIGINAL INTENT FOR MARRIAGE.
GOOD MORNING TO YOU!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Many thanks nice too nice for you kind support may almight allah grace & guide all humans. And shower his merci,love & peace to all over the world. And help all of us to understand the purpose of Life and grace all of us to live as how our Creator comanded us to live. AaaaaameeeEeeeeeeeeeeeN
Thanking you always,
Ur brother
Malabari
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
My brother you are targeting me like hw they Facists targeted those Encounter Officers. hahhaah........gud joke....jst kinly read this and 4wrd to all Indians BE PROUD OF INDIAN
1.Unlike other terrorists, Terrorists in Mumbay has not demanded anything? They don't demand release of their co-prisoners nor demanded money... why?? what was their target then?
2.Unlike other islamic Jehadis with beard and turbans, why Mumbai terrorists came with strange look - they wore jeans and T-shirts; clean-shaved and no turbans nor any sign of muslims terrorists we normally watch on media?
3.And the Terrorists attackers did nothing specifically for western, even Israelis, it was sure if they were Jehadists!
4.Beer driking terrorists; Jehadi terrorists and non-alcoholic, however Mumbai Terrorists goes to the cafe and drinks beer before they start firing??
5.Mumbai terrorists (as shown by media) had close similarities with RSS cadres: Mumbai terrorist wearing an yellow band on his right hand as RSS cadres wears normally (see pictures).
6.Mumbai terrorists immediately find their targets by killing ATS leaders [Hemant Karakare, CP Ashok Kamthe & Vijay Salskar) in early hours of their terror? How they so specific the clearly chose ATS leaders? And the terrorist immediately ran away, why? & who was that terrorist?
7.Only one terrorists is caught lively (?), all others killed as in every encounter in recent past?
8.Mumbai terrorits are very clear about their targets, they are well experienced their hide abouts in Taj and other places?
9.Prime Minister, Sonia & LK Advani visits Mumbai, but no clues or no claims about ISI or Pakistan.. However No1 terrorist, Gujarat CM Modi hurry-up to Mumbai and declares that Pakistan is behind the attack without any doubt! [because he is the one who hired them]
Note: no other CMs goes to Mumbai..
And he offers rewards to every military men killed of 1 crore unlike PM and LK Advani? Even he offers aid to MahaRashtra!
10.Media was widely reporting that there were IDs of terrorists recovered which shows Malaysian and Mauritious IDs however such references disappeared once Terrorist leader Modi's arrival!
11.The timing of Mumbay terror is well planned, just before state elections!
12.We are told that they came from Pakistan by sea? Indian military in boards sea were sleeping?? We told they came by speed boats? Yes, but not from Pakistan but from Gujarat!
13.It took contineous 60 hours to stop the terrorism! and most of terrorists killed with our brave, who are the pride Officers of Indian History
"WE SALUTE THE BRAVE OFFICERS WHO LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES IN PROTECTING US AND OUR COUNTRY INCLUDING HEMANT KARKARE, ASHOK KAMATE & VIJAY SALASKAR,MAJOR SANDEEP UNNI KRISHNAN etc, These facists can kill destroy them from the earth, but they are living in our hearts.!
PRAY FOR OUR INDIAN FORCES WHO ARE STILL FIGHTING THE TERRORISTS WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT THEIR LIVES AND FAMILY JUST FOR US, JUST FOR THE INDIANS, WE FEEL PROUD TO SAY THAT WE ARE THE CITIZENS OF THESE BRAVE MENS COUNTRY, and understand my brother A gud Muslim is the one who Respect his Mother COuntry, his/her fellow beings, his/her neigbours, and all human beings. My respected brother plz note a true muslim wil not be a Terrorist. And If he think abt terrorism then they are out of ISLAM.
We LOVE INDIA, We love ISLAAM.
Jai Hind
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
well, i have to respond your welcome TAJ, in the 13 of them contains british and pakistan civilians.
any namesake muslims, we r always agaisnt them.........
remember both of them led war against us in history!
our hearts belong to india! we celebrated our victory in 1947 august 15, kargil, and 2008 november 29 mumbai !
this is our condemn of Mumbai attack from all jamaat majlis all over the world, u have to read it!
Warfare is an awesome evil" (2:217),
global terrorism is utter anti islamic,
unwanted bomb blasts and terror activities occuring in our country india only aimed to kill innocents who are living peacefully in a populated area.
suiciding and killing innocents, women, children all are punishable and strictly forbidden according to Qur'an and hadeed.
God does not allow you to harm them.” (4:90)
"if anyone slew a person, it is as if he slew the whole mankind
and if anyone save a person, it is as if he save the whole mankind"
whoever the killers is a big sinner infront of ALLAH ALMIGHTY!
salute to the officers who sacrified their lives to save our nation!
MAY ALLAH PROTECT ALL OF OUR HINDU AND MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS
AAMEEN SUMMA AAMEEN
strive for our unity!
Do not call them Muslims or Hindus!
They have no faith or belief at all!
Do not call it a war, because a war has its own manners!
It’s a third rate shameless attack!
A normal man who has a fear in GOD cannot kill a number of innocents unnecessarily!
Even mad people will not do it!
They are the worst human in the world!
Allah hates those unwanted cunning cowards!
They have no right to still alive!
Live and let live India!
Curse be upon them for killing our 155 innocent civilians!
Terrorism doesn’t have any religion!
Pray ALLAH to control the death toll!
O Allah, grant peace and tranquility to our nation!
With wet eyes and wept heart,
INDIAN MUSLIMS ALL OVER THE WORLD
binuqatar, are you irritated with the discussions????
Siste fatima and Brother Malabari, Well done. Keep it up. Thanks for providing much informations about christianity.
now close this chapter and malabari most welcome to TAJ hotel mumbai
again u proved ur hypocracy!
1)still u r hanging in multiple marriage and divorce
i have answered it in good english!!!
When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it
the above is your owm words, dont u see it?
when i asked about the polygamy in Bible, u said that.
and marry one command we can find only in Qur'an, so its not against to the 10 commandments.
I am amazed that u allows seperation in 'extreme' circumstances (even though it's againts God's will!), yet doesnt allow re-marry? Why? Why is it so sinful to remarry? does u even know what adultery means?
ok i think u will repeat the same thing again,
look here
The report of the ‘Committee of The Status of Woman in Islam’, published in 1975 mentions on
page numbers 66 and 67 that
the percentage of polygamous marriages between the years 1951 and 1961 was
the polygamy found in muslims is very less than the major religions!!!
and open your eyes when the truth comes infront of u.
atleast u accepted its not compulsory in islam, alhamdulillah i am glad to teach a hypocrite!
about divorce, i explained it with bible and qur'an brother malabari answered it with reasoning and logic!
if u refer in wikipedia rates or encyclopedia rates, the world divorce rate is very less among muslims, this again proves my point, islam is pro-GOD.
now u will say they r not true christians!
(if ur claim is true that u did'nt produced a proof link or evidence site before us)thus i can also say, torturing muslims, terrorsist, one who marry non-beliver are also not true muslims
when i asked about the legalised prostitution and divorce at wink of an eye in christian countries,killing innocent civilians in iraq and afganistan, u said they are not true christians,
now i have to ask u the same words
Was that the teachings of christainity? I know not, but in practice, very contradictory, indeed. And that's where the additional thinking should be done by TRUE CHRISTIANS LIKE YOU. Why can't U put in practice what U preach?The truthfulness of a religion is are you practicing the good values it teaches? Or you just pray and pray and never mind the condition of other? Where is compassion? Where is justice?
DEAR ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS, THIS DMIGHTYSOLOMON BROTHER USED TO SKIP MY QUESTIANS CAREFULLY, PLEASE NOTICE IT, EVERYONE CAN COMPARE MY ANSWER POSTS AND HIS REPLY POSTS
'''Maybe small in number but again, it is happening and a reality.'''
ok after all u accepted its very small in number, alhamdulillah i am glad to teach an utter hypocrite who repeated his claims unnecessarly without giving a proof verse or a single hadeed!!!
and about practicing their faith in another countries, i have to tell u 2 facts
1)when i selected from campus placement to CSC(Computer science corporation India limited in Noida, Delhi, their minneapolice branch in USA refused my recruitment only for the reason that i observed proper hijab and veil, we can also Questian them why. when i asked why, i lost my working seat in Hyd branch.!!!
2)my eldest brother who is a BSC Nurse lost his recruitment in Swiss only for the reason that he have a sunnah beard!!!
wrong men are everwhere!
do not blame a faith for its minority wrong followers.
i know philippino-arab-indian unity in soudi very well.one of my brother is working there in a reffuted company which have common acommodation and pick up van.
also i have many female christian friends there working in batha riyadh, jeddah, damam and jordan border as IT professionals and nurses, i never had heard the "torturing" u claim!
As for America, everyone in the WHOLE WORLD, is well aware of what crap they do in 'Gauntanomo'
'''Study us in the Philippines so you may know who we are. What kind of people we are and how are we regarded by many nations. '''
a good country u claim, the crime statictics of philippine is here
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/rp-philippines/cri-crime
i have given it to show that not everysoul in the earth are Good even they belongs to islam or christainity! like adolf hitler and great mother tersa, both r human
'''As to your claim of completeness of Islam, you have not heard about us!'''
now GOD made clear for us about your hypocracy repeating claims without giving proofs and not ready to understand a truth even it comes infront of u!!!
'''Bro Malabari won't like it, the way you responded.'''
means???
'''Another funny thing, the first people wore clothes, OMG, where did you learned that? Study your Quran again, Sister! '''
u first read your bible ok?
i am reading bible from my 5th standard, that's why i am able to qoute verses against your falsehood!
. Adam and Eve sewed fig leaves into an apron (Genesis 3:7). The Hebrew word for the garment is chargorah,
NOW SAY, IS THIS FUNNY THING FOR U SIR???
i respect your age and country, dont be a silly man while answering!
i said many points about veiling.
and i am glad that u can touch only this point regarding my answer, WELL BROTHER
thank u.
another funniest thing is below
'''Bible is pure. If you find contradictions, it maybe on the translation.'''
sir, i am speaking about the bible in aramic and suriyani, the translation contains contraditions(u accepted .lolz)means its source also full of errors and curroptions and this is the main FLAW in your doctrine!!
now i am taking your challenge
''' If you can find any SINGLE flaw in our doctrine, I would be glad to "convert" to Islam.'''
how can u say your bible is the only one trustworthy source?. The authors are unknown (according to biblical scholars- also see the encylopeadia britannica!) and it contains contradictions and scientific errors.
can u give an assurance that your bible is perfectly preserved from the first revealation of Jesus(the real Gospel called injeel)to 2008 saturday, november 29???
and if u r a true christian, ever u fasted in your life without drinking a single drop of water like jesus, moses???
we muslims doing it every year, the month of ramadan and countless voluntary dayz!!!
ever u prayed in prostration(touching head on the ground, sujood in islam like all prophets including jesus)???
we muslims doing it everyday 5 times!!!
ever u took ablution before prayer like jesus???
we muslims doing it everyday before every prayer volundary or obligatory!!!
ever u greeted your fellow christian brothers "shalom walekum" like jesus???
we muslims doing it whenver we saw our fellow brothers!!!
assalamu alaikum
we never eat pork and alcoholic drinks showing that we are the true christians!!!
what about bank interests?
about veiling, i just say we follow our mother marry who and her fellow women covered their head and sometimes face!!!
8th day jesus circumcised, we muslims are the only people in the world who follow all the above.
and plz give me a bible verse for supporting your below statement
""let a separated man remains separated and can never marry again unless the spouse dies (and so the ties that bonded the marriage is already broken) and the living person can marry again.""
Show me where Jesus Or God says to MARRY ONLY ONE in the bible!
i think u people following the marry one command in Qur'an, well brother
as per malabari bro asked
Are these the word of God?
do christians consider the books that i am listing below to be the word of God? if no then please explain why are thy not the word of God.
These books are also attributed to prophets or disciples (ofcourse there is no strong evidence, but then the books in the Bible are no better)
The Book of Adam and Eve
Book of Jubilees
Book of Enoch
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Proto-Gospel of James
The Gnostic Scriptures of Nag Hammadi
The Gospel of Mary
The Gospel of Nicodemus
The Apocalypse of Peter
The Second Apocalypse of Peter
The Testament of Solomon
The Zohar (The Book of Splendor)
The Alphabet of Ben-Sira
Joseph and Aseneth
The Septuagint
Bel and the Dragon
The Acts of Peter
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
Mar Saba letter and The Secret Gospel of Mark
The Gospel of Judas
The only so called monogomous people were the romans, yet they had many concubines, so in reality, they were 'married adulters' And since christianity has more or less changed its ways to make the romans (men in skirts) happy, how can you claim to be following the true teachings of Jesus? Do you know about constantine and Nicea?
I said, it is WRONG way or reason that some people revert to Islam because of the "multi marriage reason", but reality is many do it as reason to marry again here in the ME. I know a lot of my countrymen and other nationalities who "revert" or convert" to Islam because they want to marry again here, and its a reality. Maybe small in number but again, it is happening and a reality.
And Bro Malabari, so if what you perceived as "Christian" misdeeds, you can also do misdeeds? If other torture Muslims, so Muslims also can justify tortures? Is that what justice in Islam is? You keep preaching about respect for other religion and yet you don't allow them worship services? You think giving the Catholic their freedom, you free all? Was is not the granting of Catholic to build their church here is as an exchange for Muslim to build a mosque in the Vatican City? What about other religion? In the Philippines, Mosques are allowed to be built anywhere, but all other churches are also free to build their own houses of worship. Why can't it be done here in the GCC? Except for Bahrain which recognizes our religion and we have our own house of worship there.
We maybe small in numbers compares to Catholic and Islam, but when we pray for justice and equality, no boundaries are ever built. But Islam has so many boundaries and restriction when it comes to other religion. Was that the teachings of Islam? I know not, but in practice, very contradictory, indeed. And that's where the additional thinking should be done by Muslims. Why can't they put in practice what they preach?
Study us in the Philippines so you may know who we are. What kind of people we are and how are we regarded by many nations. If you can find any SINGLE flaw in our doctrine, I would be glad to "convert" to Islam. But until the issue on "divorce" and "multi-marriage" practices in Islam are not cleared, even morality standard, it will not stand the test.
Good morning and peace be with you all!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I am so confused, these answers are wayyy to lengthy.
DMS, what religion are you? I know of no Christian faith which does not recognize divorce. RC are the most stringent of Christians and it is even recognized in the faith.
Hence, if all sects of Christianity allow divorce and anullment, would it not be against the teachings of the church to not recognize them? Even remarriage is permissable if the marriage is anulled.
I am not gettin it.
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Hello Brother dmigtysolomon,
Ashamed on you by ur last post ..and ur wordings regarding the people CONVERTING to ISLAM for marry more than one Women.
Its only your opinion or it shows ur narrow mind.
“”””this "multi marriage" is becoming one of the come-on on non-Muslim to convert. Since they want to have another wife, they convert from non-Muslim to Muslim so they can marry another one, its WRONG way of conversion but it's a reality.”””
Try to learn from the actual happenings through out the world.
The 60% of the people who revert back to Islam are Women. Then hw can they marry more? Islam doest permit Polygene ( one women cant marry more than 1 men).
This is due to the effect of realization, hw Islam treats Women..! The freedom and value of women in Islam.
They feel more secure and happy living. ( u can watch interview of some revert back women in youtube)
If you go through the statistics of America u can easily find what actually happening.
So dnt blame Islam, converting people….etc.
Open ur eyes and study from ur surrounding.
May allah guide us right path through out the life.
Respected brother (Sulaiman) Solomon
Sister fathima is my sister!
Then with respect to your qstn!
Q:If Islam is as you claim, can you give comments regarding torture and persecution of non-Muslim in Saudi? The inhuman condition of labor camps in GCC countries? The truthfulness of a religion is are you practicing the good values it teaches? Or you just pray and pray and never mind the condition of other? Where is compassion? Where is justice?
Ans:
1)Who started First World war & Second World war.?
2)Why the innocent peoples of Hiroshima & Nagasaki still suffering.What mistakes they did. still the babies are there and who are going to born too physicaly or mentaly affected know.?
3)Who Colonized & Luted all other wealthy countries
4)Who Colonized India & luted all the wealth of India
5)Who Colonized Africa then Tortured & Luted all its wealth.
6)Who is Luted Iraq's Wealth
7)Who is Torturing Palestine's men,women & small babies, kids,etc.
8)More over who Tortured Jesus(peace be upon him)at that time.
9)Then the prosicution in Saudi. If a man who do anything the contry's law means he/she should suffer the Govt. punshiment.Why other countries are not giving dealth penalty.????????
10) Then the peoples suffering in GCC Camps includes muslims too. So are you saying in GCC countries on labours are safe & Peacefull. IF 1 or 3 Camp labourers are suffering means hw can u claim that whole to the Muslim community. And more over there are lot Managers or campboss or Supervisors are non-muslims know so why cant they solve this. they too taking the chance of these peoples know. I didnt feel any prblm in these GCC countries AlhamdulillaaaaaHThen do you feel any tortures in this country...??????????????????????????
11) Then plz note the main Quality of A TRUE MUSLIM. Till this time Muslims didnt abused any other religions. But is that the case of other religious peoples ?????. What all Cartoons they are making against Muslims. What all Articles and false websites they are making against muslims. Is there Any thing happned frm Muslim's side. How many Priests and Ministers of Other Religions are Embracing ISLAM. Is there any Single ISLAMIC Scholar converted to anyother religion. Till this time.
If you try to point one finger at us. all the other fingers of the whole community is against you my brother. Then in my past threads i asked some questions abt Bible & its Origin to you. But i didnt get the answers for that plz try to answer that.
Thanking you always,
ur brother Malabari
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
you have to take care of your heart more on the way you answer.
When this I say that it is compulsory. I said "practices" "divorce" and "multiple marriage" are practices. I did not say compulsory, again read it carefully. But you admitted that it is practice in Islam, isn't it? Actually, many times, this "multi marriage" is becoming one of the come-on on non-Muslim to convert. Since they want to have another wife, they convert from non-Muslim to Muslim so they can marry another one, its WRONG way of conversion but it's a reality.
And again, you keep on mentioning "special men" who testifies the genuineness of Quran, where did they based their testimony. The truthfulness of Bible or Quran is if anything written on it are true to the words and will of God, not because many scholars testified for it.
Did God mentioned "Love your WIVES" or "WIFE"?
You asked me about Muslim man marrying non-Muslim woman and Muslim woman can not marry non-Muslim man NOT TRUE, well, maybe you are only reading Quran and never have the time reading QL. Actually, I just learned from the many Muslim member of QL. Am I right or wrong? This is one funny part of your answer.
I will stand by my view that 2nd, 3rd and 4th wife is "legalized adultery".
Bible is pure. If you find contradictions, it maybe on the translation.
Another funny thing, the first people wore clothes, OMG, where did you learned that? Study your Quran again, Sister! Bro Malabari won't like it, the way you responded.
For us, all dead people from the beginning of the world up to now are still in their grave until judgment day where all dead people will rise and be judge whetehr to inherit the kingdom of heaven or suffers the pain of hell. All men except our Lord Jesus Christ who is now sitting on the right of God and two men mentioned by the Bible who are already in heaven.
As to your claim of completeness of Islam, you have not heard about us!
If Islam is as you claim, can you give comments regarding torture and persecution of non-Muslim in Saudi? The inhuman condition of labor camps in GCC countries? The truthfulness of a religion is are you practicing the good values it teaches? Or you just pray and pray and never mind the condition of other? Where is compassion? Where is justice?
Good day Sisterfatima, although we argue, rest assure that love remains and seeking the truth never stops until there is a dot of confusion or doubt about what we believe in.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
now i feel guilty for wasting my valuable time for answering u who is answering like an utter hypocrite.
i can't say i am laughing as u say, veryone can understand that u simply repeating your claims without touching the points we mentioned. plz read our replays well before answering.
if u cannot then read below patiently!!!
""why is it that a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman but not the other way around.""
its a wrong assumption,
who said this to u, produce the proof verse behind this claim!
if u cannot give, do not repeat this kind of wrong allegations
""Anyone practicing "divorce" and "multiple marriage" is against God's will"".
how can u say it?
i answered well here about the reasons behind it. still u repeating your allegations tells that u r a kind of acting ignorant.
again my answer is here
When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it
as latest people, u also have to obey and follow it.
i admire how it is against to the Ten Commandments!even i explained the facts behind divorce and polygamy.
still u have wrong assumption that polygamy is compulsory in islam, how can i awake a sleep acting guy!
""And "divorce" and "multiple marriage", however long (or painful or financial-related matters it may bring, of course the process will not proceed without "huge amount" of money involved) the process is, is not God's will. ""
how can u say its not God's will?
how can u say your bible is the only one trustworthy source?. The authors are unknown (according to biblical scholars- also see the encylopeadia britannica!) and it contains contradictions and scientific errors.
can u give an assurance that your bible is perfectly preserved from the first revealation of Jesus(the real Gospel called injeel)to 2008 saturday, november 29???
i explained the things according to Qur'an, and we can give assurance that its perfectly preserved and protected and millions of people memorized it!
its truly the word of GOD, not i am saying, its said by the great christinas scientists below, refer them in Google
1> Dr. Keith L. Moore is a Professor of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada.
2> Dr. E. Marshall Johnson, Professor and Chairman of the Department of Anatomy and Developmental Biology, and the Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, USA.
3> Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson. Professor and Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Baylor Collage of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA.
4> Dr. T.V.N. Persaud. Professor and Head of the Department of Anatomy, Professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, and Associate Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology and Reproductive Sciences, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.
5> Maurice Bucaille addressed the French Academy of Medicine in 1976 and expressed the complete agreement of the Quraan and established findings of modern science.
6> Dr. Tejatet Tejasen, Head of the Department of Anatomy, Faculty of Medicine, University of Chiang Mai, Thailand.
7> Dr. Gerald C. Goeringer. Professor and Coordinator of Medical Embryology in the Department of Cell Biology in the Georgetown University school of Medicine. Washington, D.C. USA.
8> Dr. Alfred Kroner, Professor of Geology, Germany.9> Dr. Yoshiodi Kozan, Director of the observatory of Tokyo, Japan.
10> Dr. William Hay, Professor of Oceanography, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, USA.
11> Dr. Pete Palmer, Professor of Geology, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado.12> Dr. Sayawida, Professor of Marine Geology, Japan.
13> Dr. Armstrong, Professor of Astronomy, University of Kansas, Lawrence, Kansas.
14> Dr. Draga Persaud Rauw, Professor of Marine Geology, King Abdulaziz University, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
15> Dr. Schroeder, Professor of Oceanography, Germany.
i mentioned some of their names only, will u say they are not true christins like u???
but u cannot say they are not scientists!!!
if its not the word of GOD, they will find errors and corruptions in it like Bible.
so we follow the word of GOD, how its against to GOD's will.???
"""The second, third, and if there is a fourth is already a "legalized" adultery."""
my rsponse is, the above statement is utter rubbish because i have answered it already,
and if u r a true christian, ever u fasted in your life without drinking a single drop of water like jesus, moses???
we muslims doing it every year, the month of ramadan and countless voluntary dayz!!!
ever u prayed in prostration(touching head on the ground, sujood in islam like all prophets including jesus)???
we muslims doing it everyday 5 times!!!
ever u took ablution before prayer like jesus???
we muslims doing it everyday before every prayer volundary or obligatory!!!
ever u greeted your fellow christian brothers "shalom walekum" like jesus???
we muslims doing it whenver we saw our fellow brothers!!!
assalamu alaikum
we never eat pork and alcoholic drinks showing that we are the true christians!!!
what about bank interests?
about veiling, i just say we follow our mother marry who and her fellow women covered their head and sometimes face!!!
8th day jesus circumcised, we muslims are the only people in the world who follow all the above.
concept of salvation in bible
The bible says:
“The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him…” [Ezekiel 18:20 NIV]
and the Qur'aan says:
"Or is he not informed with what is in the Pages (Scripture) of Mûsa (Moses), And of Ibrâhim (Abraham) who fulfilled (or conveyed) all that (what Allâh ordered him to do or convey), That no burdened person (with sins) shall bear the burden (sins) of another, And that man can have nothing but what he does (good or bad), And that his deeds will be seen," (An-Najm 53:36 - 40)
Matthew 19:16-17 and Mark 10:18 which says :
"One came onto him [Jesus] and asked him 'Good master what good deeds shall I do to have eternal life'
Jesus replies 'Why do you call me good for there is none good but one and that is God. and to have eternal life, keep the commandments'".
Well the main belief of christians is you simply believe in Jesus as your saviour and you will reach paradise. But Jesus told people to follow him and his teachings to reach paradise.
Sura Asr 103:1-3 from Quran :
"By (the token of time) through ages. Verily mankind is in loss. Except such as have faith, adn do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of truth, and of patience and constancy."
This sura gives the criteria to reach paradise. You need to fulfill all these four criteria to reach paradise. any one of them missing, you will not reach paradise. First one is that you need to have faith. then you need to do rightoeus deeds. Then you need to invite people towards truth.And then you need to invite people towards patience and perceverence.
According to Bible keeping the Law is must for Salvation. See what Jesus said;
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.{Matthew 5:20}
Same is testified by James, see the following of his words recorded in the Bible;
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"{James 2:14}
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."{James 2:17}
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."{James 2:24}
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.{Matthew 19:16-17}
So SALAVATION according to bible depends only KEEPING THE COMMNADMENTS and NOT MERELY BY BELIEF.
so according to bible to get eternal salvation, we have to follow the commandments of jesus, NOT JUST HAVE FAITH, BUT I HAVE TO FOLLOW,
To show that you love someone, you need to be obedient to them. Me muslims follow Jesus more than Christian themselves.
and plz give me a bible verse for supporting your below statement
""let a separated man remains separated and can never marry again unless the spouse dies (and so the ties that bonded the marriage is already broken) and the living person can marry again.""
Show me where Jesus Or God says to MARRY ONLY ONE in the bible!
3. In Islam, when is judgment day?
This knowledge is only known by God (Allaah).
However, we were told to look for signs, about 50 small sins and 10 major ones.
They include things like, increased killing, increase earthquakes, etc… Major ones include the return of Jesus (peace be upon him).
However, from each individual’s perspective, we believe our day of judgement starts when we die. This is because this is when our time is up, and our deeds cease. We now enter the world of the hereafter and there is no return. You now either get punished for your bad deeds, or rewarded for you good ones.
And since we have no idea when we will de, we are advised to perform our good deeds (like prayer) as if it was the last time we will perform them. This way, we try to be our best, all the time.
4. Where are the dead people now?
The human being is made of two parts: The body and the Soul:
i. The body:
we believe ultimately, when he dies, his body returns to the ground. This is why the ground ‘hugs’ the body when it is place in the grave.
The body then decomposes, except a small part, which will be used to resurrect him/her
ii. Soul.
The soul goes into a world known as al – Barzakh. It’s like a transit place between this world and paradise and hell. No one can return from it. When the soul leaves the body, it goes up to the heavens to get registered and will be returned back to the grave (however still in this other world – sort of like another dimension you could say) and will get questioned. Depending on how the person was, he may get rewarded (with peaceful sleep and hanging out with other good people), or punished in his grave, until eternity. These punishments are to the soul, but are so intense at times, that they affect the body.
Before you wonder how this is possible, we also believe the soul leaves the body when we sleep, and then returns when before we wake up. If this is the case, how do people speak when asleep? Or sleep walk? The reason being that sometimes dreams can be so intense as to affect the body as a whole.
All this may sound strange difficult to understand, but Islaam is the only religion that actually offers a real answer to the afterlife.
We have been given some description of the punishment in the grave.
Think about it, how can someone so evil, like Hitler, be buried next to some1 good, and they both are in the same state in the grave? It’s impossible! We believe Hitler will be punished for his evil ways, and the righteous will be rewarded. So all the hardship someone goes through, for being good and avoiding temptation will not be of waste, but instead will have great reward.
3. Veiled women is cultural, not religious practice? When was clothes invented by man?
I believe that from the first day (i.e. Adam and Eve), wore clothes. They were human and felt the shame of walking around naked, just as we do now. Women have always covered themselves up. It was after the world wars (second I think), when the (American) soldiers started finding dirty magazines in Europe, this led them to start their own immoral magazines (like playboy!) and shows and stuff, and eventually, women started removing more items of clothing until nothing was left. Women were turned into sexual objects and their bodies sold for money. And this evil spread all over the world, eventually. Look back in history and compare how women dressed. See how much they wore ….dont you wonder how such a dramatic change could happen??
Just as you wouldn’t want some pervert to be looking at your mother, sister, wife, etc with dirt looks, we wish to protect the Muslim women and one way is to ask them to cover up infront of strange men. They can take off their veil infront of individuals like her br, father, etc. But really, her beauty should be hidden for only one person, her husband.
"Say to the believing man that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands"[Holy Qur'an 24:30-31] CHURCH NUNS LOOKS LIKE MUSLIM SISTERS
24:64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. 24:65 For she [had] said unto the servant, What man [is] this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant [had] said, It [is] my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself. genesis 24:64-65 [BIBLE]
The veil also acts as an identity. It tells the people that she is a woman of respect and she doesn’t want any silly men to come up to her and say silly things.
Religion just asks the woman to cover up, how she does it, that is cultural. You will see many Muslim women all over the world, who wear the hijaab, but which is tailored to their cultures.
I haven’t provided references to keep this short, but everything I have mentioned is either found in the Qur’aan or in the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
We have a detailed description of the Hereafter. Everything to the signs of the last day, the grave, the Day of judgement itself, and Paradise and Hell.
I assure you, you will not find any religion that is as complete as Islaam.
"Verily those who believed, and those of the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whoever believed in God and the Last Day, and worked righteousness - no fear shall be upon them, nor shall they grieve." [Holy Qur'an 5:69]
and brother dmighty solomon if u r a true christian, worked righteousness, believed in God and the Last Day, we will meet in jannah(paradise), heaven insha allah!
wasalaam brother, love u alot!!!
well, after this thread..i think you still don'e have an answer if you are a christian or true muslim...
but definitely...
you're one confused sanamagun...;)
"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"
we don't recognized annulment. We don't recognize divorce. Yes, in extreme cases, we recognize separation but no remarriage. We recognize only end of marriage once one party dies. So the living party can re-marry. Anyone practicing "divorce" and "multiple marriage" is against God's will.
Also, we worshiped one God only, the Father in heaven (the Allah that you called upon, Yahweh in some verses). If we worshiped Jesus, it DOESN'T mean we recognized him as God. We worshiped Him as our Lord and Savior and as Head of the Church.
So, Bro Malabari and Sisterfatima, don't put those words that we don't worship the True God in the Truest meaning of serving Him. And "divorce" and "multiple marriage", however long (or painful or financial-related matters it may bring, of course the process will not proceed without "huge amount" of money involved) the process is, is not God's will.
Marriage is a sanctity. Even morality dictates that you should only have one. The second, third, and if there is a fourth is already a "legalized" adultery.
And Coelacant, it's a C not a K! Open your eyes, you might be referring to other. Study your law. In our country, there is no divorce yet, only legal separation and annulment, and we don't recognize both of it. And we are the only Church that practice expulsion for those who can not follow the doctrines of a true Christian.
And BTW, Bro, Malabari and Sisterfatima, do you know how they torture non-Muslim practicing religion in Saudi Arabia? We condem America for what they are doing to Muslim captives in Guantamano Bay but their "percived crime" is against humanity (which are not yet proven). In Saudi, non-Muslim only practice their religious belief (which you said is RESPECTED by Quran and Islam in general), but you will be appalled by the torture they give to non-Muslim caught having religious worship services. If these tortures happens in the very heart of an Islamic country, how can you even say that you are a compassionate society?
In our country, Muslim and non-Muslim live harmoniously. All basic rights are respected by both sides. We co-exist without the fear of being persecuted. I pray that this country and all countries in the GCC region will recognize all, I said all and not only Catholic to practice their religion as written in the Bible and Quran.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
ANNULMENT = DIVORCE, WITH A DIFFERENT NAME. CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF ANNULMENT IS FOUND IN THE BIBLE BECAUSE IT'S BEING APPROVED IN ALL CHRISTIAN FAITH? Why question divorce not to be approved in the bible, when annulment is not even in the bible but being approved in all denomination? Does it mean that marriage is just man-made, so if you're annuled, the "blessing" done by the bible God just vanishes and you are free to marry again?
hmmm...kinda interesting. any response from our Iglesia ni Kristo brother dmightysolomon?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Pierrot: Let me try to help you, there's a slight chance that you maybe Deist. Do you belive in revelation? Do you belive in profets? If you do who was the last living profet for you?
Sisterfatima: Ever visited Fatima?
Now back to the subject, Muslims and Christians have pretty similar believes, in the present world, the main difference is that Christians have splited the religious from the social matter, while muslims still see religion and society as a single matter.
Of course that in the past, the main issue was that Jesus of Nazareth is considered the last christian profet while Mohamed (PBUT) is considered the last profet by Islam.
Of course that we may ask ourselfs what is a profet and how do you recognize one.
Should Nostrodamus be considered a profet? Is Delai Lama a profet?
How many of us would belive in someone who would show up and say that he was a profet? Anyone remember thoose events on Waco, Texas where a bunch of people quilled themselfs because they belived on a guy that said he was a profet?
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
U r in right these are different boats, but all of them lead you to the same destination.
We are lined up one before the are same as per the sequence Jesus and Mohamed cames.
don't be afraid think about it again, the right message will sound in your heart and lead your soul.
assalamu alaikum brother solomon
about seperation u explained, a little confusion!
first of all i have no doubt in my faith, let me explian,
What kind of religion do you follow? it sounds very oppressive to divorced couples!
Let's say for example a couple get married and are happy, have children, but maybe something happens. Maybe the husband starts drinking or become abbussive and fights with the wife alot. Isnt it her right to want to seperate from such pain?
But then what? is she supposed to be a single mother? Do you know the state of children in Europe because of broken houses?!
Islaam looks out for the woman, the child and the man!
Let me explain:
1. The divorced man is still a man, and will have desires. Islaam doesnt want immorality in the community and thus we do not allow girl friends, prostitutes, or even dirty magazines!! etc all common in the west!!
He is allowed to get married again, or he can fast and try control himself. Celebacy doesnt work and the christian priests/monks/nuns are proof for this!
2. Women: They also have desires and we know that women are the other half of men. Your bible claims women are 'under' men and we believe men are her protectors. So she shouldnt be left alone to wonder the streets when such evil is present. She is to be taken care of and protected as this is her right!
3. Children. Just as everyone deserves to have a mother and father, so do the children. If the parents cant work things out, why do the children have to suffer?
We have had many cases of divorcees marrying and their marriages being even better then other couples marriages!!
You claim we are manipulating your posts. You are saying you believe in God and that Jesus is the Lord, yet Lord doesnt mean God?
This is from your oxford Dictionary:
noun 1 a man of noble rank or high office. 2 (Lord) a title given formally to a baron, less formally to a marquess, earl, or viscount, and as a courtesy title to a younger son of a duke or marquess. 3 (the Lords) the House of Lords, or its members collectively. 4 a master or ruler. 5 (Lord) a name for God or Christ. [http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/lord?view=uk]
If you claim you believe in God, why do you not worship God? Why worship Jesus?
Didnt God say in the bible:
6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 7 "You shall have no other gods before [Or besides] me. [Deuteronomy 5:6-7 (New International Version)]
and didnt he say:
8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, [Deuteronomy 5:8-9 (New International Version)]
Amazing isnt it? How we just convinienty 'forget' this commandments?
Show me where Jesus Or God says to MARRY ONLY ONE in the bible!
Polygamy was always there, Islaam simply regualted it. The only so called monogomous people were the romans, yet they had many concubines, so in reality, they were 'married adulters' And since christianity has more or less changed its ways to make the romans (men in skirts) happy, how can you claim to be following the true teachings of Jesus? Do you know about constantine and Nicea?
Did Jesus say, WORSHIP ME? Infact, didnt he himself pray? Who did he pray to? Himself? or to God through himself?
how can u say your bible is the only one trustworthy source?. The authors are unknown (according to biblical scholars- also see the encylopeadia britannica!) and it contains contradictions and scientific errors.
We have explained that the divorce process is a lengthy one, but is allowed when things are too bad to work out. If you read about divorce, you will see that there are stages and even inbetween those stages, there are chances for the couple to get back together.
It's like running a race, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but should we give up all the time? We work hard to win the race, but sometimes its just not ment to be...
Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
the remaining 3 answers are coming soon insha allah, bcoz a little bit busy in office.
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
SisterFatima..Very impressed with you point of view.. especially nowadays where women in Islam are being potraited as surpressed and with no freedom.. You really stand out..
May God rewards you for the thoughts and information you share with us. Amen
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
your email id not working, why?
i can't send u mail, may be the problem in the charachters, i think bro!
Again, at the risk of repeating my self, the very first thing in this thread was that ther eare a great deal of similarities between us. This is what I want to look at before I go down the differences. I believe in one God, I believe that all things were created by him, I believe in the insprired word of god but make room for the limitations of man but when I open my heart to Gods voice, I will understand, even when the "transaltion" is right but I am still looking for the finer details late rin life. However, I know I am one thing, a sercher of peace between God loving people. So in this, I am also of the thinking "am I Christian or Muslim". I know I love God and wnat to listen to him and I know that every day I fall short but how does God clean me within Islam. These are the little things I need to know but I know that if we are all looking to please our father in heaven, then we are not all that far from each other, are we.
Would you please write your statements pointwise, short & simple............your reply seems to be a confusing essay.
whatever you are if you are not sure about yourself and religeon what are you expecting from others please dont make fun over religeon. you should have faith in your self. And i beleive this is not KON Bany GA KAroor Pati that you have given options and waiting for the answer to come.
Qur'an is the word of GOD, it can be proved through basic scientific accuracies, prophesises and perfection in linguistics. if we study this facts with bible, i am sorry, u cannot say bible is pro-GOD. i am saying it only because that i found u have doubts in the divinity of our noble qur'an, its holy and glorious.
be honest, i read bible alot and find many contradictins, errors and curroptions, i can admit all those here, but i dont want it because i respect my chrisitian brothers, i will not hurt them.
if u taked it as challenge, i am ready to discuss, but amoud sis and pierrot bro, and others feel it widen the gap, that's why i am speaking very polite as i can.
your reply tells that u did'nt read my posts well
ok patiently read below facts.
1)in the permitted things, divorce is the worst thing to GOD.
Islaam allows divorce as a LAST resort and this divorce is in a lengthy process of waiting periods. You don’t simply just say 'divorce' and it happens. Many things need to be considered first.
that's why i said, if u refer in wikipedia rates or encyclopedia rates, the world divorce rate is very less among muslims, this again proves my point, islam is pro-GOD.
2)Divorce in the Bible
Bible contradicts itself:
First Jesus claims he wont change a letter in the Law:
“17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen , will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” [Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)]
Then it says Moses did allow divorce, but Jesus thinks it shouldn’t be done anymore:
8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." [Matthew 19 (New International Version)]
So, according to Jesus, It is permissible to divorce in certain circumstances, like:
1. Adultery
2. The people have hard hearts
But why do divorce if your partner commits adultery? Why is it ok then?
As for your claim: " In a wink of an eye, they can change partners "
I don’t know which 'wink of an eye' you are referring to. Perhaps you shouldn't believe everything you hear. Tell me, can you show me where it says in the Qur'aan that you can divorce women like that?
Human beings aren’t perfect and they cant see the future. It can happen that you marry someone you believe is good, but prooves to be bad in the future, so what are you do to? Be unhappy and upset all the time? What if he is some1 how beats his wife or rapes her? You think this is fine??!
As for your claims: unhappy marriage God's fault? If marriage unsuccessful, was God to be blamed?
Why don’t you give us your perspective. Are you going to be naive and claim there are no marriages that have gone horribly wrong??
All happiness and sadness is from God. But, unlike the bible, we have been given clear answers.
So you see, we consider divorce a way of coming out of a bad relationship, and in the end, we believe it all happens for a reason.
After all....doesn’t God work in mysterious ways!?!!!
3)""why is it that a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman but not the other way around.""
its a wrong assumption,
who said this to u, produce the proof verse behind this claim!
if u cannot give, do not repeat this kind of wrong allegations
4)and u have a misunderstand that polygamy is compulsory in islam, its again wrong assumption!
as u said ""Well you can always quote that Abraham and Solomon and other prophets may have many wives, but that is during their time. When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it.""
at that time, due to wars, most of the men destroyed, the number of believers who passed away is very huge, that's why God decrees for the protection widows and orphans, marry more than one and also God issued His decrees that
but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, (with them), then only one' [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
then God says
'It is very difficult to be just and fair between women'. [Al-Qur'an (4:129)]
so the condtion is only for whome who deals with justly.
and however "marry one" command we can find only in Qur'an.
so i admire how it is against to the Ten Commandments!
and plz give me a bible verse for supporting your below statement
""let a separated man remains separated and can never marry again unless the spouse dies (and so the ties that bonded the marriage is already broken) and the living person can marry again.""
and as u r saying u r not a catholic, so u want answers according to your views, insha allah, i will give answers according to your beliefs after some reading because time is a big crisis for me as a computer programmer.
and its funny to read your posts seems that "catholics are not true christians"
here besides me, my fellow sisters and neighbors are catholics, i fear they may laugh or slap, lolzzz
so u r true christian(glad to see a true christian, masha allah)DO YOU OBSERVE THE ABOVE FACTS MENTIONED BY MALABARI BRO IN THIS FORUM???, IF NO, WE MUSLIMS ARE THE TRUE CHRISTIANS!!! is'nt it?
according to me, who follow christ(pbuh) is christians as jesus said follow the commandments, not mearly a belif, i can qoute verse for my above statement, also i can clear the facts about salvation according to qur'an and bible, and i can clear the things son of GOD, sinless, crucification, etc
but i fear the gap may widen, that's why i keep silence!
the third quiestian of u answered by malabari bro in a long post, really that post is very informative for me
jazaana wa iyyakum malabari bro
thus mohammed(pbuh)is our final messenger, u cannot deny it. as a truth cannot be refuted.
and the rest 3 easy questians , i will answer tomorrow, insha allah, because today i spent a lot in QL, :)
I have posted the divorce thing twice and no one is answering me.
The RC church grants anullments, which allow you to remarry in the church. The church of England permits divorce, as well as protestants (both of these by the way also permit the marriage of ministers to divorced women).
DMS, how can you profess that divorce is not permissable? I would really like to know this, sincerly.
____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
As long as you believe in one GOD / ALLAH and have faith in him...
The Church does allow divorce in the form of an anullment, and after that you can remarry in the church so why are you saying there is no divorce?
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
you make me laugh again, firstly, good morning to you!
What happen to the wife of your prophet is not divorce, but two death (widowed as you said. No question about that. I saud it first, if the other spouse died, then the knot is broken so the alive one can remarry!. What is your problem there?
Separation is different from divorce? It is true that separation was adviced to God's children but never to remarry. This is what I am saying, if you choose to separate from your spouse, then stay separated and don't marry again. Divorce doesn't legalize separation of two people married in God's commandments. So you say that divorce is rampant in christianity, which Christianity are you talking about? That divorce thing is already a proof that they are not TRUE Christian and divorce in Islam is also a sign that Islam is not pro-God. If Islam can practice separation without re-marry, maybe, maybe you are pro-God.
Worshipping Jesus doesn't mean He is God. My position is very clear, God the Father in Heaven is the only TRUE God and Jesus is the Head of the Church and Savior of which He, Jesus, will save comes judgment Day.
Do not manipulate my posting because I am just repeating what I have posted before.
Your admission of "divorce with re-marry in Islam should give you doubt on your belief. What your difference with those professing they are Christians but also practice "divorce"? Is that what God's words is.
The Christians you know is not the TRUE Christians as you can read in the Bible. Not all who believe in the Bible are Christians and not all people pronouncing they are Christians are really one. Those who follow the true teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ which He learns from His Father, the Almighty God in Heaven are the true Christians. And "divorce" and "polygamy is not part of God's commandments in THESE LAST DAYS or Christian Era/time/period.
Lordness of Allah/God is natural, but Lordness of Jesus was granted by God, so when we call Jesus Lord, it doesn't mean that He is God.
Do not mistake me as Catholic. See the difference, it's Catholic, not Christian? I am not a Catholic?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
I dont get it... there are thousands of similarities but the posters here insist on playing on the differences.
Is anyone actually here to try and offer something constructive or is everyone just trying to show how smart they are? I dont mean this as a compliment cause all any of you are doing is cutting and pasting without giving your sources. Please dont tell me your sources are the books themselves, that text is obvious, it is the spin I am referring to.
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I agree with you Pierrot, I liked this post in the beginning as I thought that people would see it an offer similarities instead of this nonsense. Islam and Christianity are not that different to be honest and the more people could focus on that the closer we would all be at understanding (and that doesnt neccessarily mean accepting) and respecting each others views.
For the rest of you... you all get a gold star.
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
guys, can I just remind you all, the begining of this thread was,,,, am I christian or Muslim. Yhe reason why I say this is because I am guneinly interested in the difference and for that matter the similarities of a Christain and a Muslim. I need some clarification as to what the Qu'ran says Jesus said as apposed to what the Bible says his words are. If it says they are different types (man of God or God's begotten son) then is what each of the reports of what he said different also. Remember I have not yet read the Qu'ran so I am ignorrent.
one who believes in Christ is christian
did anybody laugh at my answers other than this brother, let me know please? i have to reduce serious jocks!!!
Jesus is not God, he is a man, but is worshipped and is the Lord and saviour
If Jesus is not God, then why dont you worship God? Why do you worship the creation? Why not worhsip the Creator?Lord and God mean the same thing. Lord is the Christian way of saying God [check a dictionary!]
Sinless and Son of God
Do you know how many times the words 'Son Of God' are used in the bible!
For example:
38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. [Luke 3:38 (New International Version)]
Angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament. Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Psalms 29:1; 89:6. Daniel 3:25 Hebrews 1:5 "You are my Son; today I have begotten you." Psalms 2:7 David is stating what God has proclaimed regarding David's relationship to God "I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: he said to me, 'you are my Son; this day have I begotten you."
And, for arguement's sake, so what if Jesus is sinless? Does that mean he should be punished and tortured for everyone else's sin? You speak about issues such as divorce in Islaam, yet your 'Lord' is being killed and tortuted by man? And for what? For OTHER people's sin? This is either saddistic or pure evil!
The bible is VERY VERY clear:
“The soul who sins is the one who will die . The son will not share the guilt of the father , nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
"But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?” [Ezekiel 18: 20 -23 NIV, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2018;&version=31;]
Divorce in the Bible
Bible contradicts itself:
First Jesus claims he wont change a letter in the Law:
“17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen , will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” [Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)]
Then it says Moses did allow divorce, but Jesus thinks it shouldn’t be done anymore:
8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." [Matthew 19 (New International Version)]
So, according to Jesus, It is permissible to divorce in certain circumstances, like:
1. Adultery
2. The people have hard hearts
But why do divorce if your partner commits adultery? Why is it ok then?
As for your claim: " In a wink of an eye, they can change partners "
I don’t know which 'wink of an eye' you are referring to. Perhaps you shouldn't believe everything you hear. Tell me, can you show me where it says in the Qur'aan that you can divorce women like that?
Human beings aren’t perfect and they cant see the future. It can happen that you marry someone you believe is good, but prooves to be bad in the future, so what are you do to? Be unhappy and upset all the time? What if he is some1 how beats his wife or rapes her? You think this is fine??!
Islaam allows divorce as a LAST resort and this divorce is in a lengthy process of waiting periods. You don’t simply just say 'divorce' and it happens. Many things need to be considered first
Also, the highest divorce rates are in the CHRISTIAN west, and not Muslim countries....
As for your claims: unhappy marriage God's fault? If marriage unsuccessful, was God to be blamed?
Why don’t you give us your perspective. Are you going to be naive and claim there are no marriages that have gone horribly wrong??
All happiness and sadness is from God. But, unlike the bible, we have been given clear answers.
For example: The first wife of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) lost two husbands!(she widowed twice) imagine! two! Yet, because of her patience, she was rewarded by the best man, the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
So you see, we consider divorce a way of coming out of a bad relationship, and in the end, we believe it all happens for a reason.
After all....doesn’t God work in mysterious ways!?!!!
Polygamy
Where does it say in the bible MARRY ONLY ONE?
Polygamy is only for those people who can take care of more than one wife.
In Islaam, we find having and taking care of more than one wife(in the case of the protection of widowed women), better then having girlfriends and mistresses. It's funny, Christian countries are willing to legalise prostitution, but not polygamy...i wonder why!
and i have read your answers from the first post and find u did'nt give proper answers to malabari bro and coelacanth bro
and i found nothing laghable in my answers,
if u find anything hurting, i am very sorry for that
wasalaam brother
Would you kindly explain.....what do you mean by moon-god & who is he??????????what relation does moon-god has with all Islam, christianity & Jewism
Jesus is My Lord , My Saviour , I proclaim it Everywhere
He is God,The Son of Living God, The Lion of Judea ,The Saviour, Mighty God, King of Kings, Lord of the Lords,
No Matter what you all say ,
We believe he is the only begotten of the Father,The Word,Lamb of God and THE ALPHA THE OMEGA..
email address is roton(at)btinternet.com
IS Jews and Christians God is the same Muslim's God(Allah). What is moon God ?
The church gives annullments does it not?
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
anybody who will read Sisterfatima's answer on divorce will just laugh. You even justified it by saying divorce is less in Islam than in the west? What a funny way to justify "divorce". Does it make "divorce" lawfully to God?
All verses you quoted in the Bible are true and no question about it. Your interpretation that it pertains to your Prophet is what is wrong. Even the covenant between God and Abraham, you have interpreted it wrong? Sorry, bro, I have one God, the Father and Jesus is a man placed as mediator between God and men. Jesus is the head of the Church He founded during His time and thru prophesy, that church resurrected in this last time and our faith is strong that Jesus as head of the church (his body) will justify God's law that punishment would be for those who sinned. And I know and you know, Bro Malabari, all men sinned so all men are destined to be punished. You need to find the solution to this predicament. There is only one way!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
why is it that a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman but not the other way around.
God's commandment is never to unite in marriage with non-believers or in simple words, no marriage for non-same faith. No exemption on this rule or present day situation permits it, so it's not God/Allah wish already but who else?
To our church, no member can marry a non-member or face the consequence of expulsion, whether a man or woman commits it.
This is one of the gravest sin King Solomon did during his time, and God/Allah punish him for such mistake.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
your email id not correct i think, that i can't send u mail because a message appears that it contain characters that are not formal id.
JAZAAKALLAH SISTER FATHIMAH FOR ANSWERING SOLOMON
brother timtan, in my shirt there are red, green, yellow, black, white and vibgyor, etc colored spots and dots are there, i bought it from india, if u want i will buy on for u,:)
and u have to consult an english teacher for improving your grammer ok?
BROTHER SOLOMON
REGARDING THE ISSUE OF DIVORCE I READ, sisterfatima answered it quit well
Ever wondered why the Western nations and the Christian populations in general have high divorce rates? Ever thought about blaming the failure on Christianity for that?
Well, Islam is very fair in this area. Perhaps that is why there is far less divorce in the Muslim world than in the Christian one, even among the Muslims who are living in the West.
The marriage contract in Islam must have two dowry amounts paid by the husband to the wife: The first one is before the marriage and the second one is after the divorce if it were to occur.
The following Noble Verses deal with dowry in general:
"And give the women (On marriage) their dower As a free gift; but if they, Of their own good pleasure, Remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it With right good cheer. (The Noble Quran, 4:4)"
There are other expenses that the Islamic court would also add in the time of divorce upon the man such as Child Support, Maintenance, and others if they are applicable:
"For divorced women Maintenance (should be provided) On a reasonable (scale). This is a duty On the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 2:241)"
Christianity's marital system is utterly ridiculous. It is the main cause of the utter failure of marriage in the West. The Christians in opinion are the victims of the corrupted Bible.This book according to its Theologians and Historians is an utterly corrupted one, because no one knows who were the authors of the books and the gospels. These books were written by mysterious authors. Islam's marital system on the other hand is quite rational and very fair and practical. .
"I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of Quran which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness." [Napoleon Bonaparte as Quoted in Christian Cherfils, 'Bonaparte et Islam,' Pedone Ed., Paris, France, 1914, pp. 105, 125]
THE THIRD Q, I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED WELL HERE
."" If Islam believes Jesus is also a prophet, how come you recognize Mohammed as last Prophet, who is who is last?""
Muhammad in the bible
“18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.” [Deuteronomy 18:18 (New International Version)]
Moses is not like Jesus, thus has to be another prophet.
“25questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?" [John 1:25 (New International Version)]
Clearly the Jews were waiting for a prophet and this prophet was NOT jesus
“21They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, "No." [John 1:21 (New International Version)]
"THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE APOSTLE, THE UNLETTERED PROPHET, WHOM THEY FIND MENTIONED IN THEIR OWN SCRIPTURES, IN THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL…"
Holy Qur’ân 7:157;
Regarding Muhammad – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him –, we have records of early Jews and Christians, both monks and rabbis, who witnessed that Muhammad – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him – was the fulfillment of specific Biblical prophecies. The following are some examples of these people.
The first witness was Buhaira, the Christian monk, who recognized Muhammad’s – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him – Prophethood when he was still young and told his uncle (Muhammad’s – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him – uncle Abu Tâlib):
"…a great fortune lies before your nephew, so take him home quickly."
The second witness was Waraqah bin Nawfal, a Christian scholar who died soon after a meeting with Muhammad – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him –. Waraqah attested that Muhammad – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him – was the Prophet of his time and received revelation exactly like Moses and Jesus – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon them –.
The Jews of Madeenah were anxiously awaiting the arrival of a prophet. The third and fourth witnesses were their two famous Jewish rabbis, Abdullah bin Salam and Mukhayriq.
The fifth and sixth witnesses were also Yemeni Jewish rabbis, Wahab ibn Munabbih, and Ka`b al-Ahbar (d. 656 CE). Ka`b found long passages of praise and the description of the Prophet prophesized by Moses – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him – in the Bible.
The Qur’ân states
"Is it not a sign to them that the learned men of the Children of Israel knew it (as true)?" Holy Qur’ân 26:197
Now, let us start from Deuteronomy 17:15
"Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee whom the LORD thy God shall choose. One from among thy brethren shalt thou set as king over thee; thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, who is not thy brother." Deuteronomy 17:15 (Emphasis mine)
Christians quote this verse to put their innocent impression upon others that ‘No NON ISRAELITE KING’ over Israel. In fact, this is not the reality. If you analyze this verse by keeping the facts in your mind that, both Ishmael and Isaac – peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon them – are brothers and in that sense their children are ‘Brethren’ to each other. Now, when the verse says “among thy brethren”, it may mean “your Ishmaelite brothers” and when the verse says “not set a stranger over thee”, it may mean “One who is not among your kin” as it is more clear on further reading of the same verse “who is not thy brother”. Ishmaelites are BROTHERS to Israelites. So, the chance of ‘Ishmaelite’ being a king over Israelite is not at all demolished.
As the Prophecy reads as follows: "I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE......." The emphasis is on the words- "From among their brethren." You see, the Holy Bible speaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN- '......And Abraham called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON......" (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.' (Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and seed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, who was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael.
If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhammad is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHAMMAD THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!
I HAVE TO GIVE A LOT ABOUT IT BUT BECAUSE OF SHORTAGE OF TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO CONCLUDE
http://www.answering-christianity.com/umar_hassan/that_prophet.htm
Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.
1. Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".
2. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
1. John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."
2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."
3. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
4. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
I WILL ANSWER ALL OF THE QS OF BROTHER SOLOMON AFTER I GET HIS ANSWERS!
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
w8 for the judgement day...u will know if ur christian or muslim.
We are the only Christian church that says Jesus is man. No argument about that.
We believe that all things were place under Jesus and since Jesus surrender to the One God, God/Allah will above all and everything.
We worship Jesus not as God but as our Lord and Savior. We believe that He is the only human being who had not sinned and God is very please with His Son.
You, know, my brother, all your thinking is all who you perceived are Christians taught Christ id God. That is really wrong. True Christians are followers of Christ and followers of Christ are those who believe that Christ is not God but man.
To answer your question, if not included in the Bible, then it's not included. If all those books you mentioned do not contradict the Bible now, then it means that it will never change the doctrine I have my faith. But as I have mentioned, the Islam practice of "divorce" and "polygamy" is directly against God's commandment so if it is mentioned in some part of Quran, I could not accept it, morally, and based on the Bible!
It's God/Allah words that ties a man and a woman and God specifically mentioned that "no man can put asunder" to a man and woman married (in the true sense) in fron of Him. But in Islam, just pronouncing it, marriage is annulled and can marry again. What's your difference to the so called "Christians that revealed Jesus as God?". Divorce is haram to God/Allah. No amount of reasoning for practicing it. Marriage is not a joke or should be taken lightly as most people do think so nowadays. In a wink of an eye, they can change partners. Is that what your Allah/God think so? Is unhappy marriage God's fault? If marriage unsuccessful, was God to be blamed? Asked this question to your scholar and give me a good answer!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
u have to qoute required bible verses for your last post.
and u did'nt answer the Qs of brother coelacanth, and my Q also, i am pasting here below
Are these the word of God?
do christians consider the books that i am listing below to be the word of God? if no then please explain why are thy not the word of God.
These books are also attributed to prophets or disciples (ofcourse there is no strong evidence, but then the books in the Bible are no better)
The Book of Adam and Eve
Book of Jubilees
Book of Enoch
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Proto-Gospel of James
The Gnostic Scriptures of Nag Hammadi
The Gospel of Mary
The Gospel of Nicodemus
The Apocalypse of Peter
The Second Apocalypse of Peter
The Testament of Solomon
The Zohar (The Book of Splendor)
The Alphabet of Ben-Sira
Joseph and Aseneth
The Septuagint
Bel and the Dragon
The Acts of Peter
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
Mar Saba letter and The Secret Gospel of Mark
The Gospel of Judas
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Matthew 24:36 - Jesus was not all-knowing.
Matthew 26:39 -Jesus and God had different wills.
John 14:28 - One was greater than the other.
Mark 10:17-18, Luke 18:18-19 - Jesus denied divinity.
Mark 1:35, 6:46, 14:35-36, Matthew 14:23, 19:13, 26:39, 27:46, 26:42-44 - Jesus prayed to God. (If Jesus was God himself, who was he praying to?)
John 8:42 - Jesus did not come of himself.
John 7:16, 12:49, 14:24, 17:14 - Jesus' words were not his.
John 14:31 & 15:10-Jesus followed commands.
John 17:6-8 - "I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me."
Acts 2:22 - Jesus was "a man approved of God."
1 Timothy 2:5 - Jesus was the mediator between God and humans.
Jesus says that he wasn't sent with peace on earth but with a sword (Matthew 10:34)
In Short Jesus Peace Be Upon Him is Not God
but why u worship Jesus?
Dear all on this thread
I must thank all of you who have e-mailed me and sent personnel messages via this forum on this subject. One in particular who sent the articles on Christians who also said as i do that "something dosn't fit" and I am sure you know who you are.
I have recieved warm hearted communication that is neither a hard sell or trying to convert me but simply shows me the facts and from both sides. Not just Muslims. This is the whole point of this and other forums, healthy open debate without anger, aggresion or blind biggotry.
If anyone wants to e-mail me, please feel free on roton/-at-/btinternet.com
I am not saying I am not going to stay a christian or convert to islam but neither am I saying I am not. I have a lifetime of questions to answer and indeed I may yet have to find what the questions really are.
God bless you all my brothers and sisters, what ever your faith.
It's very obvious that you have not met a true Christian. And since the quotes you quoted are incontradiction with the Bible, that'e where our difference is.
But again, the old testament that is also part of the Bible we believe in is very particular about "divorce". When He said that you separate yourself from unbelievers spouse, He really meant it because it despise Him for being in relation with an unbeliever. But the person who He asked to live separately can not marry again or if the spouse return back to God, then they can live together again.
But in Islam, after the divorce, one can marry again which is contradicting to God's wishes.
Well you can always quote that Abraham and Solomon and other prophets may have many wives, but that is during their time. When God issued other decrees concerning His latest people, you have to abide by it. Plurality of women against men is not an excuse to marry four people. Divorce doesn't nullify the marriage in front of God. Marriage is a sanctified thing. God specifically said that you can't covet thy neighbors wife, so if real marriage (I don'r know how Islam view marriage in front of Allah) can not be annulled, let a separated man remains separated and can never marry again unless the spouse dies (and so the ties that bonded the marriage is already broken) and the living person can marry again.
That is why God/Allah laid-out His commandments to both man and woman who wants to get married because marriage is a lifelong commitment. I could never agree with polygamy because it destroys the fundamentals of teaching as mentioned in the Ten Commandments!
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
on the one hand, that is what I am afriad of, but on the other, if God is in control there should be some truth remaining.
yes, to an extent I agree with you and this is my big question, and now you have said that, you have made me aware of what it is I am truly asking.
that is,,,, taken for granted that there is a God and men are weak, fallable and prone to error, how much of what we are "spoon fed" is truly from God and how much is what we are wanted to think based on, sometimes misguided interests of good people and sometimes the self interests of bad peolps over the 1000's of years.
Osman. You forget that there are people here asking for the opinion of others, not just me, that is why it is a discussion forum. How can you summerise. The questions are far from answered, but I do agree with you that answers need to be more concise, shorter and fitting for a forum, not a meeting room in a mosque which is where the bigger longer questions can be answered, but i feel we are far from summurised. I for one still need answers
Hey, actualy when we are talking about the fundamentals of life, some of us can be bothered to read every detail, so for those of you who have taken the time to share your thoughts, there are some of us who have taken the time to read it all.
I for one am still in a mind of not knowing who is right and who is wrong. what I know is that to ask God for an open pair of eyes and to ask people to share their opinion is good but to say we are bored with the answer is not exactly rude but does not respect the time people are taking in various parts of the world to help each other.
I prey God blesses you all that are here to either listen or speak and some perhaps both. I do not know what itis I am asking yet, I just know something in my own belief does not quite fit. Not exactly wrong but as has been said a number of times, inconsistant. So, until I have sat and read the Qu'ran, I wont know the question. If this takes a while, Insha Alla. For me, I thank you all for your help and opinions, both soft and hard. Keep the good work going guys. God bless and peace be to you.
i wish to qoute ayats for every answer, but for shortening the post, i did'nt
if u brothers want verses, i will coute insha allah
1)Why is divorce allowed in Islam?
Many people are surprised to learn that divorce is allowed in Islam. After all, Islam is so strict and rigid in many ways, why would divorce be allowed?
Marriage is Allah's gift to mankind. It offers peace and security, physical pleasure and children. Marriage is meant to nurture the soul. While no one is happy all the time, marriage in general should bring happiness and fulfillment to both parties. Marriage is the center of the family, and also its thermometer. When the marriage is strong, the family flourishes. When it is weak, however, the entire family suffers.
the above answer suit not only to muslim but also to all human, i.e islam is not only for muslims but also for the entire humanity.
2. Why is Polygamy allowed in Islam?
Qur'an is the only religious scripture in the world that says 'marry only one' Qur'an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase 'marry only one'. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the religious scriptures like the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.
Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives. In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a couple of centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.
Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had 2 wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah. (960 A.D to 1030 A.D) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, when an Act of the chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.
Qur'an permits limited polygyny As I mentioned earlier, Qur'an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says 'marry only one'. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur'an: 'Marry woman of your choice in twos' threes' or fours' but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly, (with them), then only one' [Al-Qur'an 4:3]
Before the Qur'an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals with them justly. In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says: 'It is very difficult to be just and fair between women'. [Al-Qur'an (4:129)]
Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to marry more than one wife.
and the example facts behind the permission of polygamy in limitted way is that
1)Average life span of females is more than that of males
2)India has more male population than female due to female foeticide and infanticide
3)World female population is more than male population
rest i will answer tomorrow , insha allah
wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu wa magfirat hu wa aafyat hu wa barakallahu feekum
dmightysoon bro, i will answer all of your qusetians one by one today or tomorrow insha allah, sure, i will, its my pleasure. and its vey easy!
sorry for the delay, its a busiest tuesday and i am now in india so its funny that my posts are appearing 2:30 hrs earlier than the local time here.
dear brothers pierrot and colecanth,
i am very much pleased to read your reply post that both of u willing to read the book which i am reading everyday. hearty masha allah
and coelacanth bro, i am taking your commend
" i challenge u to refer all those the writings in Qu'ran with those of science discoveries", then i will give some more verses to prove its divinity!
if i won in this challenge, R U READY TO BREAK YOUR VOW THAT that i will never again join any form of revealed religion????:P
and I am much satisfied that I spent 2 hrs before my pc for preparing that post in a word document.be honest, a non muslim fellow sister’s research report helped me a lot while composing and I did’nt cover all points here,but touched some best points only, and alhamdulillah(praise the LORD) my valubale time not wasted.
my hometown is in the capital city, trivandrum, south kerala india. here in our Qur'an classes, we have a number of non muslims and new muslims who wish to read Qur'an,
but they have no time to sit before an arabic teacher to learn Qur'an, so we taught them first letters and reading, writing ability. then if they wish, we will continue, if no, we recommend 3 things.
1)translation of a Holy Qur'an along with a Qur'an copy.
http://www.islamway.com/SF/quran/
download holy qur'an in your language free(any language including arab)
u can acquire pure qur'an copy from muslim friends because the Qur'an in my home shelf and the first Qur'an copy of usman in egypt libraby are almost same, amazingly, that's why we are saying its perfectly protected and preserved even in the case of a single letter.
Verily, We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian, (Al-Hijr, 15:10)
This verse of the Holy Quran promises that its text has been safe-guarded in its original form by a divine plan for all times to come.
for both of u brothers, i recommend
THE HOLY QUR'AN, Text-Translation-Commentary of A Yousuf Ali. (becoz he is my hero in tarjjuma)
http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation_index.php
the above site give translation of yousuf ali only.
and u can buy it from everywhere in the world.
also Abdullah Yousuf Ali's can be buy through Publications of presidency of islamic courts & affairs, state of qatar.
all tafsirs from madeena university also in simple english.
2)a home teacher of Qur'an, personal computer and internet.
coelcanth bro, u said u know to read and write arab, masha allah, so the rest is easy to understand i think.
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=10&tSoraNo=3&tAyahNo=102&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0
the above is an english and arabic translation site, in it u can access more than 10 tafsirs(translations) written by different authors.
http://www.tafsir.com/Default.asp
the above is popular english translation tafsir ibnu katheer.
i think its very useful for coelcanth as u know to read and write, because the above site is word by word translation.
3)buy a recitaion CD of Holy Qur'an, i recommend sheikh abdur rahaman al sudaise, well known qari' and the imam of masjidul haram makkah , because his voice and tune of reciting is touching when we open a translation while listening his resitation. Emotional reciation we can here when thinking verses of Qur'an, sometimes i cried while listening it due to the innovative pleasure.
http://www.all-quran.com/documents/66.html
u can listen here while reading it.
http://www.muslimtorrents.com/torrents-details.php?id=633
u can download it with english translation from here
and malabari bro invited u both to meet in qatar so that he will give the free copies u wanted, i think.
and dear pierrot bro
ask all of your questions, i will try my best to answer with Qur'an and hadeed.and i will send an informative mail soon insha allah
dear nice too nice bro
thank u jazaakallahu khyrum katheera for supporting me.
dear amoud sis,
i am joining with your view about jackson, do u know a dileep kumar and his mother who accepted islam in 1987 before i was born and changed his name to "allah rakha rahman"? he is the ever natural legend A R RAHMAN.
dear anasfk bro,
convey the truth in a very best manner,
do not hurt anybody, we have no right for that.
"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching;And argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious:For thy Lord knoweth best,who have strayed from HIS Path,and who receive guidance"[Holy Quran16:125]
i wish to stop here by qouting a beautiful ayat from holy quran which made me to weep a single drop of tear.
"For submitting men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in GOD's praise,- for them has GOD prepared forgiveness and great reward.[qur'an 33:35]
again dear coelcanth and pierrot brothers, i have experienced many online discussions from 2006, have met peoples like cowards and hypocrites, but masha allah u both are comrades, love u alot
wasalaam
dmightysolomon...you haven't answered my question about the inconsistencies in your bible, and here you are asking such question where you can find the answer in your bible. Tell me, how many wives does Solomon and David had? Abraham? Moses? And now, if they have many wives, why ask such question? Another thing in the bible where it contradicts it's own writing? Makes me want to BELIEVE more in your bible...lots of inconsistencies and contradictions. Perfect book to put your belief! "Focus on the teaching and not the situation, you will say?"
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
I would ask you again, please go through the questions raised by "dmightysolomon" and answer one by one, first two questions are those of major differences between Bible & Quran. Please clarify to the gentleman.
7. Veiled women is cultural, not religious practice? When was clothes invented by man?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Would you please reply the questions of "dmightysolomn" in a simple & one line sentences. So that everybody could understand Islamic Point of view.
1. Why is divorce allowed in Islam?
2. Why is Polygamy allowed in Islam?
3. If Islam believes Jesus is also a prophet, how come you recognize Mohammed as last Prophet, who is who is last?
4. In Islam, when is judgment day?
5. Where are the dead people now?
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
Nice too nice,,,, Many thanks, I have more questions than amswers but at least I am asking them and for a change in my life, I am listening. God bless you all, we need to ask all the time and we will all find the answer if we really want to. just gota listen and ask.
pierrot the clown, wish you all the best. May Almighty bless you to find the righteous path.
My Brother Malabari.
Thank you. mail me at roton/-at-/btinternet.com and we will arrange something, maybe Villagio (it's about the only place I know) and we can sit and talk about our differences and similarities, but be friends at peace in the sight of God.
Peace be to you
My dear brother I can give the copy of Quran u asked....plz let me know..? where & how to meet..
Awaiting ur reply at the earliest.
Thanks & Best Regards,
Malabari
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Hello all..
I would like invite u all to study about Islam and comparitive relegion.
There is lots of Chance here to make it possible to study about Islam..for all people..
There s no Christianity.
Muhammad and Jesus(may Allah's peace and blessings upon them all)are prophets and messenger of Allah.
The errors in bible and the term Christianity are man made.
Those words are not from God.
and the last prophet is Muhammad(may Allas P b u h)and last guide for people is Quran.
If you watch this video by Dr.Zakir naik , u wil defently conveyed What is right and What is Wrong!!!
&feature=related
and see his all videos in similar topics.
Most of them are available in Youtube.
Malabari, I am not a brother... ___________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Yhanks "nice to nice". I am sure there is going to be someone who says there is more to it than that but I am going to start some reading. it may be a while before I understand but from what I gathered from the Muslims I meet here (in the UK) and the ones I met in Doha when i was there this year, it is about compasion, love and respect for others as well as the obvious desire to share their faith. For the love I have been shown by Muslim Brothers, I have been moved. This alone has been the thing that has attrackted me to the islamic thinking and attitude, not what the actual beliefs are.
Coleacanth,
"It just so happened that i voiced out my confusion, but that doesn't mean that i am the reason why people became confused"
I think I don't need to explain this more, you are too rational to miss out on this..
To be frank Quran has no ingredients to make rational people like you to believe, but God does make the impossible possible. Hence I will not discourage you..
"Seeing the reality is becoming rational, and i commend you for that"
I have to also admit that there is no rational being here except you..
Looking at our own weeknesses is wiser than blindly attacking others'
peace
The basic simple belief of a muslim is that There is only One Almighty whom to be offered the all prayers. And Mohammed (SAW) is his last Prophet.
thanks for that, but in short, to save me years of study, which i still might do, what is the basic simple belief of a muslim.
Coelacanth, pls try the following link where you can find Arabic Qur'an with english, http://www.alketab.com/quran_05.asp
Guys, this is all fasinating me, as a "questioning Christian" I do agree that there are inconsistences in the Bible but I am still, basically a believer and I understand the nuts and bolts of a person who has salvation, not through good works but through the free redemtion qualities of Christ paying the ultimate price of being without sin and yet giving his life for mine.
My Question is, as simply as you can please, because I have to admit to only haveing read a little of the Qu'ran, what is the basi fundamental difference between a person, as a Muslim, who is saved from hell or on his/her way there. As I said before, I have a healthy respect for muslims as they seem to have not fallen into the liberalisation trap that the west has and the laws of the land mostly still tie up with the laws of God so what is it that makes a Muslim different from a non Muslim. In Christianity it is whether you have accepted the free gift of Salvation and then turned from that old life and attempted to lead a better life but as you fail day to day, continually asking Christ to forgive you as you attempt to stick to the rightous path.
I do now promise my self that I will get a Qu'ran when I get to Doha next month and read it, if I can get an English one which I am sure I can in, say, Villagio, but if someone can short circuit the question, and agian, simply please, as I am not into a complicated faith.
Assalam Aleikum!
sisterfatima...your writing really fascinated me and it seems like you know my interest really well. To be honest, i was about to say that i would rather read Qu'ran rather than the Bible which has many inconsistencies. Anyway, i'll read Qu'ran for reference as i made a vow that i will never again join any form of revealed religion. I commend you for challenging me and referring the writings in Qu'ran with those of science discoveries, and with that you won another reader of Qu'ran. I will try to read it in it's purest form, in Arabic, and i'll keep an english version for me to understand what i read (i know how to write and read Arabic, but not understand :p) Anyone knows where i can get an Arabic AND English version of Qu'ran for free?
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Dear Malbari,
Take it in a positive way, it's not just a matter of improvement in talking but one must realize that communication is transferring of energy..........if you communicate in a way which hurts others feeling definately it would react in a negative way. Frankly speaking, religion is a blind faith........every religion is respectable to it's followers same as Islam to Muslims.
Have you ever heard of the terrible things he has done?
i have read about him alot in indian news papers, can u deny he is a legend in music world?
if i am wrong, i will call his brother jeramine jackson a legend in music world, he also embraced islam.
and about their personal life, i can't say both are good.
coelcanth bro,
its interesting to read about your faith, its a new information for me that i thought diesm may be a kind of rational atheism, but i am pleased to see u believe in one GOD, u know, one GOD concept is preached by every messenger, believing in one GOD is half in islam, because half of the witness(shahada) is laa ilaha illallah (there is no GOD except the only one true GOD),
i agree with u no one have special powers, but i believe jesus(Peace be on him) will come. i think its not against to our reasonings.
and i have read "Big Bang" in your post, so i would like to give a verse from Qur'an which u may say wrote in 1500 years ago,
Allah says in the Qur’an "Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that We exploded into existence?" (Qur’an 21:30).
One of the most plausible theories of the creations of the universe is the Big Bang Theory. This theory states that the universe used to be one whole mass that exploded into pieces. Moreover, the expansion theory is also mentioned in the Qur’an. Allah says "It is We who have built the universe and it is We who are steadily expanding it" (Qur’an 1:47). The expansion theory was first suggested by the general theory of relativity. It is backed up by the physics examination of the galactic spectrum. It states that the size of the universe is contatntly increasing.
what u think about it coelcanth bro?
and because of your last post, i have read all those post from first here, i read the interesting debate between u and bla bla and malabari, and i found a good manner and reasoning in your answer,
you said We believe in science
The Qur’an’s accuracy in science reaches far beyond the boundaries of biology. It explains many astronomical facts including the Big Bang Theory, the Expansion Theory, the Atom theory, and the concept of times zones
scientists such as Keith L. Moore and Maurice Bocaille. They have adopted Islam as their religion due to its scientific nature.
i have to mention 30 of christian scientists here, but time is being tight, i can't type more.
Ironically, the simple thought of religion leading scientific discoveries and complementing modern science is unheard of in the western world. In many countries such as the United States of America, the separation of church and state is a wide and deeply rooted belief. To even consider a religious book as a book of science would probably merit a few raised eyebrows. However, it is amazing how the Qur’an not only complements science, but is actually used as a tool to investigate more about science. Thus, through proving that the Qur’an holds explicit facts concerning the fields of biology, astronomy and geology, one will deduct that the Qur’an is indeed a scientific book.
i think u will read my words with a kind of reasoning patience, if u can't, i will stop writing all those here.
However, the purpose of this post is not to prove the divinty of the Qur’an. It is only to prove that the Qur’an contains factual scientific information that deems it a necessary book of science to be studied by all scientists before a thinking brother like u.
The Qur’an’s contributions to biological science, the Qur’an excels in it’s vivid description of embryology. The Qur’an describes the development of the fetus from its conception to its birth in such great detail that it would seem to have been a recollection of a great obstetric surgeon.
Allah says in the Qur’an, "He makes you in the wombs of your mothers in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness" (Qur’an 39:6). Recently, scientists have named three layers of tissue as the anterior abdominal wall, the uterine wall, and the amnicochrionic membrane (Moore, 25). The phrase veil of darkness in this context is the Arabic word Thulumat which actually means covers (it is known that when one covers something, this something is in darkness), that is the layers that cover the fetus.
The Qur’an then goes on to describe the stages of the human fetus which have only been known by scientists in the 20th century (Moore, 15). Allah says, "Then We placed him as a drop in a place of rest" (Qur’an 23:13). The drop, known as nutfa in Arabic has been interpreted to be the zygote which divides to form a blastocyst implanted in the uterus—a place of rest. This interpretation is also supported by another verse in the Qur’an which states "a human being is created from a mixed drop." The zygote is that mixed drop since it is made up of the sperm and the ovum (Moore, 15). "Then We made the drop into a leech-like structure" (Qur’an 23:14). The word Alaqah in Arabic refers to this "leech-like structure." Dr. Moore thinks this to be an appropriate description of the human embryo from days 7-24 when it clings to the endometrium of the uterus in the same exact way that a leech clings to skin. In fact, if one looks at a picture of a leech and a picture of the embryo during that phase, one will notice the strong resemblance between both creations. Just as the leech derives blood from the host, the human embryo derives blood from the decidua or pregnant endometrium (Moore, 16). Of course since the leech-like structure can only be seen by a microscope which was not invented till the 17th century by Leewenhoek, Muhammad (PBUH) could have never fabricated such information. and our prophet is "ummi" ILLETERATE as u know.
"Then of that leech-like structure, We made a chewed lump" (Qur’an 23:14). Here, a "chewed lump" is mudgha in Arabic. Toward the end of the fourth week, the human embryo looks somewhat like a chewed lump of flesh resulting from the somites which resemble teeth marks. The somites represent the beginnings of the vertebrae. "Then We made out of the chewed lump, bones, and clothed the bones in flesh" (Qur’an 23:14). This verse indicates that after the chewed lump stage, bones and muscles form. This corresponds to the development of the embryo. "First the bones form as cartilage models and then the muscles (flesh) develop around them from the somatic mesoderm" (Moore, 3). "Then we developed out of it another creature" (Qur’an 23:14). Before the eighth week, the embryo does not contain human features. After the eighth week, the human embryo develops the primordia of all the internal and external organs and parts. At this stage the creature is no longer called an embryo. It is now a fetus, therefore it’s "another creature." "And He gave you hearing and sight and feeling and understanding" (Qur’an 32:9). Dr. Moore says in his study that the primordia of the internal ears appear before the beginning of the eyes, and the brain which is the site of understanding develops last. "Then out of a piece of chewed flesh, partly formed and partly unformed" (Qur’an 22:5). This verse refers to the embryo that is composed of both differentiated and undifferentiated tissues. When the cartilage bones are differentiated, "the embroyonic connective tissue or mesenchyme around them is undifferentiated. It later differentiates into the muscles and ligaments attached to the bones" (Moore, 3). "And We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term" (Qur’an 22:5). Allah here tells the Muslims that he is the one to determine whether the embroys will remain in the uterus until full term. Dr. Moore has found out that only about 30% of zygotes that form actually develop into fetuses that survive until birth.
Additionally, the Qur’an discussed time zones centuries before the scientific "discovery" was made. People, hundreds of years ago, couldn’t travel far enough in a short time to find out about the existence of these zones. The Qur’an however, addresses this when it states, "When the Day of Judgement arrives it will all occur at an instant; and this very instant will catch some people in the day time and some at night" (Qur’an, 27:16). The word day time in Arabic, Al-Nahar is very distinct. It cannot be misinterpreted to mean anything other than the time when the sun is out. Similarly, the word night in Arabic, Al-Layl, cannot mean anything but the time when the sun is not out. The concept of time zones was discussed in the Qur’an hundreds of years ago, even though it was not understood till recently. Lastly, the existence of atoms is an old concept. For years this idea was known after being advanced by the Greek philosopher, Democritus (Miller, 5). Atoms were viewed as the smallest existing particles. However, the Qur’an challenged this fact by stating "Allah is aware of an atom’s weight . . . and even anything smaller than that" (Qur’an, 30:21). Now, modern science has discovered that this smallest unit of matter (i.e. the atom, which has all of the same properties as its element) can be split into its component parts. This is a new idea, a development of the last century yet interestingly enough, this information had already been documented in the Qur'an. Overall, the Qur’an has provided numerous facts leading to great astronomical discoveries. The fact that the earth and the heavens had the same origin, the explanation of the process of day and night, the fact that the sun moves by its own motion, that the moon does not generate its own light, the prospect of space travel; all these discoveries were already mentioned in the Qur’an hundreds of years ago (Bocaille, Celestial 4). As Sir John William Draper said in his book, The Intellectual Development of Europe, "The Muslim has left his intellectual impress on the World. He has indelibly written it on the heavens as any may see who reads the names of the stars on a common celestial globe" (Draper, 80).
Finally, the Qur’an presents geological facts dealing with mountains and archaeology that could not have been fabricated by any human lacking the technological equipment needed to prove these facts. The Qur’an states, "When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still, but they are moving, like clouds" (Qur’an, 27:88). Geologists have now proven that although mountains appear to be standing still, they are not. They are constantly moving upwards as the earth’s plates fold into each other. In addition the Qur’an describes the mountains as pegs, part of them visible, and the other is not (Qur’an, 78:7). In other words, mountains have roots. Dr. Frank Press, author of The Earth, and president of the Academy of Sciences in New Jersey wrote that mountains have roots. He wrote that they play an important role in stabilizing the earth’s crust (Haq, 1). Simultaneously, Professor Siaveda, one of the most renowned Japanese geologists states that "Mountains have roots that support the earth according to the law of Archimedes" (Hag, 2). In the Qur’an it states that Allah, "Has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you" (Qur’an, 16:15). This verse has been translated, among others in the Qur’an dealing with the subject of mountains, as substantiating the concept that mountains have roots. When Professor Siaveda encountered these verses in the Qur’an he said, "This is very mysterious, but according to these verses this is truly a remarkable book" (Haq, 7). No man could have possibly fabricated this information fourteen centuries ago. Professor Palmer, who is one of the foremost geologists in the USA and the head of the Centennial Anniversary of the American Geological Society was greatly astonished when he was presented with these scientific facts. He said, "We [the Society] look forward to a continuing dialogue on the topic of science in the Qur’an in the context of geology" (Al-Zendani, 18).
Last, but not least, in the eighty-ninth chapter of the Qur’an, Allah mentions a city called Iram. However, most historians denied the existence of this city, as there was no proof of it. However, in 1973 a city named Elba was excavated in Syria. The city was forty-three centuries old. Researchers found records in Elba’s library listing all the cities Elba had dealt with. The city of Iram was on that list. The people of Elba had done business with the people of Iram! (Miller, 1). Once again the Qur’an stood the test of time. The Qur’an being only fourteen centuries old, mentioned a city thirty centuries before its time.
In conclusion, it has been proven that the Qur’an does not only support science and the quest for new discoveries, but it has also complemented science in the initiation of the process of the experimental method. According to Dr. Karl Pearson, a famous American scientist, "The hypotheses of science are based on observed facts, which, when confirmed by criticism and experiments, are turned into laws of nature… such is the contribution of Islam to modern science" (Zahoor, Muslim Scientists and Astronomers . . . 6). The Qur’an has become a leading source in the areas of biology, astronomy and geology due to its accuracy. Overall, its consistent accuracy can only be attributed to a divine source. No human in the seventh century and many centuries following could have known this information. As Allah says in the Qur’an, "Soon will We show them Our signs in the farthest regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the truth" (Qur’an, 41:53).
dear all brothers and sisters of this forum,
if i wrote anything boring before u,let me know, i will stop insha allah.
thank u coelcanth bro for reading above facts.
hehe nathan
thank u for caring me behind jackson, blaah
and reminding others that i am busy in searching new web pages, ding dong
i gone nowhere dear all, a little busy in office these dayz as nairan babu said time is precious, timtan also there to slap me everyday, i dont know why and i wonder why,
and thank u brothers bla bla , usman yessiah and sisfatima for answering peacefully to coelcanth.
and brother Amoud, i am well aware about him, his hisory, the last night there was a detailed documentary about him in a malayalam news channel asianet, it says he acquited from court about that issue and said justice prevailed but during those days after 2000, he was very disappointed about the disparagements and gradually adicted to morfin drug which he says in his new albums including thriller, against wars, and caring poor children, against drugs, that from 1980s (terrible childhood days to teenage) he earned great places in Pop rock that no one was there to decorate his seat. but all changed within years!
and personally i have no opinion about his convertion because God Knows the Best about him and all, i just Glorify the Lord, and i dont know whether 'he is attribute to the faith or not'
thank u Amoud and Qureshi for ur compliments.
i will try to improve my way of talking insha allah
wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu(MAY YOUR GOD's Peace and mercy upon u) brother coelcanth, u r the one may be the only one in this thread who listened my posts!
thanks alot.
again nathan, i am not going to full stop or behind jackson or search a new webpage, haahaa
am here in Ql with u guyz...........:)
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Malabari...you are busy in searching new Web pages...
¶¶¶ I have a pair of eyes but I can't see U everyday...
I have a pair of ears but I can't hear U everytime....
But...
I have only one heart that remembers U
everyseconds......¶¶¶
Sisterfatima...Deism isn't new and it's not another FAITH...it's the belief of the presence of One God, whom we call Nature God, who created all things around us and put rationality in our mind. From that rationality came the human's craving for fame and power, that's why religion was born. Religion wasn't born overnight. It was created and fought to death until their point was heard. We base our understanding with the world around us thru rational thinking. We believe in science, that we came from a single celled organism all the way to the great theory of Bing Bang...but we differ from Atheism with the belief that before the Big Bang, someone created that BANG, and that is no other than God. Jesus and the rest are all human beings who became famous because of some historians who wrote and exagerated the facts. They don't have special powers. And (assuming) Jesus would "return" as the book foretold, i would doubt that any of you will recognize him, moreso, believe in him, just as the jews did during his time. Do unto others what you want others do unto you. That is the Deistic approach.
Blablabla...what made you so sure that i am the only one confused? It just so happened that i voiced out my confusion, but that doesn't mean that i am the reason why people became confused. Seeing the reality is becoming rational, and i commend you for that.
Assalam Alaikum.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
sorry for that,
i misunderstand about the post.
but glad to see an innocent truth seeker here also.
diest? a new faith?
i think the things are now clear for u as answered by bro bla and osman yissah,
if a new and good conditioned car got an accident by the false driving of a drank driver, assume
do we blame the car?
or do we blame the driver?
George washington and mahatma gandi are the great leaders of american revolution and indian freedom struggle, did we call them terrorists?
thus palestine struggling for its freedom from israel, may be that's why hamas leader in Gaurdian report tells so.
and global terrorism is utter anti islamic, do not compare the "strive for existence" in palestine(also iraq) and unwanted bomb blasts occuring in other countries(like india) only aimed to kill innocents who are living peacefully in a populated area.
suiciding and killing innocents, women, children all are punishable and strictly forbidden according to Qur'an and hadeed.
our GOD granted some great rewards for both men and women(Qur'an and hadeed), to encourage doing good deeds and work righteous in this earth, here the reasoning of yours work, i think.
my reasoning tells that its a training of GOD to make an excellent humanity or a meaningful mankind.
so we practice good for getting the awardz in heaven like a kid who do his homework inorder to escape from punishing of teacher or to get chocolates from Dad.
and we dont questian our GOD ALMIGHTY, Exalted, Ominipotent, the most gracious,merciful and beneficent because we know he is "JUSTICE" and the magestic throne of both men and women
so we women in islam have no doubt about the equality in heaven as our LORD tells in our Holy Book.
(malabari bro posted a lot of ayats about the equality of men and women)
Dear Malbari,
You should change the way of Preaching you do, go & get lessons o.k........don't try to tell others that, you are the only who is doing right & rest all people & the way of folowing their religion are wrong. It is not an impressive way at all.
Your way of preaching isn't attracting but it is creating repulsion and retaliation.......see all retaliated emails by yourself & think about it.
Even if you don't realize & feel to negotiate, let me know how many persons you cnverted to Islam.
"That is confusion."
And you want to give this confusion to all!
Brother Coleacanth,
Sorry for bothering you.
Yes, I too wish all muslims interpreted Quran and Islamic teachings as many of us do(And the purpose I am participating in this discussion is exactly that), but the reality is different I must agree to that. Lets hope things will change.
Becoming a religion basher is easy but becomeing a reformer is very tough...
peace
blablabla...as i mentioned on my post...i am plain ignorant with your belief that's why i am asking. But my question wasn't addressed yet. I know malabari posted a lot about peace...but why do other people, or should i say, some of your brothers, interpret the Qu'ran in a way that is ENTIRELY different from your belief? I don't have any problem living with muslim, or jew or any other denomination. I respect everyone's belief. But how would the same religion, same book, be interpreted in another way? That is confusion. I just hope all muslims interpret Qu'ran the way you guys does, not by words, but by actions. Action speaks louder than words. You can't talk peace and have a gun.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
quote:
"...when i go ask about it they say it was mistake corrected in the new testament..."
I wldnt know if it was a mistake, or if it was corrected, or if it was a new testament for that matter. But dont you think it might be possible for them to have their own version of islam's concept of "nasikh wa mansukh" (the abrogator and the abrogated)?
But then again, how dare anyone measure you by the same yardstick they use to measure the kafirs!
---
Coleacanth,
Rational people talk about what they observe. They don't talk about the things they don't see, right? We have excluded faith from our discussions so far and with that go Hell, Heaven, virgins, servents, gardens,etc all unseen.
A kid is threatened against evil, so naturally, there is a need to reward him for good. As he grows up he gradually learns the truth and behaves sensibly. Faith lays foundation for responsible behaviour.
Brother Malabari has mentioned many verses from Quran that encourage peaceful living for the people. Reading the same, no sane person would choose to bash muslims and Islam. Your reason, unfortunately, only leads to disbelief and confusion among the readers...
sisterfatima...it's not my blog...it's a blog i found that refers to the "70 virgins" that i mentioned in my previous post. Am i a christian believer? I WAS THEN. I am now a DEIST who believes in the existence of only one God, but not of revealed religions.
malabari...I have an exerpt from "the guardian" http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5
*****
In August, 2001, the American television channel CBS aired an interview with a Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh, who recruited terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel. Abu Wardeh was quoted as saying: "I described to him how God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness." Wardeh was in fact shortchanging his recruits since the rewards in Paradise for martyrs was 72 virgins. But I am running ahead of things .
*****
So, why would i apologize when a muslim himself told this ON AIR for everyone to hear?
what about the question about 80,000 servants and 72 wives for every faithful muslim who died? Since you mentioned that women will get the same, will they be getting 72 husbands or they become the virgins in paradise as mentioned in the hadith? I am plain ignorant with your belief that's why i am asking. and the 80,000 servants, are they muslims who died or from other religions?
My eyes are not close, but my main question was never answered from your post that's why i told you that your response is irrelevant. You focus on the excerpt that i posted, but not on my question.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Guys, I have looked thru your comments and to be honest I have tried not to say anything as I didn't think it my place but here goes, gota get this off my chest. I have been a christian since I was 12 and over the years been comfortable with it, but then I became an engineer. this means that i measure everything if i can. In some ways with religion that is not right because it should be about faith but having said that, Jesus said to "try the spirits" (and no he does not mean to take a shot of jack daniels) so I have done a bit of background research.
I won't bore you with it in detail but I would suggest three books. Please take them all with a pinch of salt but there are elements in all three that really hit home. the books are 1) the Hiram Key. 2) he key to the book of Hiram and 3) The holy blood and the Holy Grail, latest edition.
Ok I know that there is some simply ridiculus claims but actually, some of the things we all take as blind faith have been skewed ny, what someone else touched on in this thread, by political interest. Every civilisation has been guilty of this. Rome, London, Paris, the promised land, all of us have, for good intentions sometimes, been weak in theinterest of misguided interest as well as downright deciept and political manipulation.
I have, over the years realsied that some divisions were put there just to do that, divide us I mean. I now have more respect for the Muslim Culture than the way my own religion has conducted it's self, or more to the point, it's self imposed so called leaders.
The Qumran sects, the dead sea scrolls, the name "barabus" not being a real name but a word meaning "twin" or "Lawer" when Pilate washed his hands. It seemed to me that something didn't "fit".
I am still a christain but now I am not sure if my "protestant" belief was right and the Catholic version is nearer the truth or indeed if Jesus should in fact be woorhipped.
The one thing I do know is this. I can eat with my Muslim Brother, my Jewish brother and my Hindu brother, sisters also, and I love them all. I would agre to dissagree in some things but in one thing we all agree.
To love one another more than our own selves, to share what we have been given by God, to tell the truth even if it hurts you and to look out for each other.
God bless you all while we all still search for the truth.
Sisterfatimah, surely you are not talking about Mr. Jackson as he is no attribute to the faith. I would not be trying to win over followers by telling them a child molesting weirdo converted. Have you ever heard of the terrible things he has done?
_______________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
indeed truth!
but i think this is not a good place for a peaceful discussion because hurting people are more than listening people here,
and dear coelcanth bro
one serious accuse i found in Your blog is homosexual claim, its much bashing than your suicide bombing.
"Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them. Youths (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded. (The Quran, 52:24)" "...Youths (handsome)..." is written in Arabic as "gilma-nun llahum". Gilma-nun literally means young males. This Verse is talking about young male servants whom Allah Created for the service of the Believers in Paradise.
"Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness), (The Quran, 56:17)" "...youths of..." is written in Arabic this time as "wil-daa-nun", which literally means young boys. This Verse is again talking about young male servants whom Allah Created for the service of the Believers in Paradise.
"And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls. (The Quran, 76:19)" "youths of..." uses the same exact word in Verse 56:17
However,it doesn't show anywhere of same genders, so plz paste this type of blogs into a good forum.
bcoz that blogs are created by anti islamic team by miss-defining and false-explaining ayats and hadeeds, they even dont know arabic, their only aim is to bash islam.
but they can't brainwash the innocent truth seekers as an assurance in the never ending list, finally the popstar legend also embraced the holy faith,
coelcanth bro , r u a christian beleiver?
nowadayz am busy that's why late replay sorry
straght answer i have given ALREADY(BUT FOR UR SAKE I DIVIDED MY ANSWER INTO 4 SEGMENTS, READ ONE BY ONE)
1) the blog nowhere tell about ur claim "suicide bombers", so u have to apoligize for ur falsehood claim againt islam
2)sucide is strictly forbidden in islam and killing also.
i have given a lot of verses for this.
3)the below sentence WAS easily refuted by dr zakir naik and Dr bilal philips, (and other christian missinaries priests who recently embraced islam)
""Homosexuality was and is widely practised in Islamic countries. To please the homosexuals among his followers he promised them pre-pubescent boys in Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life, the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls""
that's why i said this nonsence is ANTI ISLAMIC.
DONT U FEEL IT?
THE THINGS IN THAT BLOG EXPLAINED HERE ONLY TO MISUNDERSTAND FREASH MINDED TRUTH SEEKERS, BUT THEIR WORKS WILL NEVER WON, THE TESTIMONY IS ISLAM IS THE FASTEST GRWOING FAITH IN THE WORLD, NO ONE CAN DENY
4)and PLZ READ THE VERSES ABOUT the serving and helping boys in the heaven that mentioned in Qur'an
ITS UTTER RUBBISH to call them homosexual gay lesbian, naudubilla, HOW CUNNING FELLOWS BEHIND THIS BLOG!????
ThE Noble Verse is talking about young male servants whom Allah Almighty Created for the service of the Believers in Paradise. (MAY I QOUTE SOME MORE VERSES FOR THIS FACT???)
The Paradise and Great Reward that Allah Almighty promised and prepared for the "righteous" is indeed meant for both men and women.
MAY I QOUTE SOME VERSES FOR SUPPORTING MY ABOVE STATEMENT WITH UR PERMISSION???
6)
""""what about the female muslims who'd die, do they get the same benefits as the male?"""
YESSSSSS
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE ANSWERED WITH A LOT OF VERSES FROM QUR'AN WHICH TELLS ABOUT THE EQUALITY IN REWARDZ
IF U WANT I HAVE SOME MORE TO QOUTE.
Surah 3:195
So their Lord accepted their prayer: That I will not waste the work of a worker among you, whether male or female...
Surah 4:194
And whoever does good deeds whether male or female and he (or she) is a believer -- these shall enter the garden, and they shall not be dealt with a jot unjustly.
Surah 16:97
Whoever does good whether male or female and he is a believer, We will most certainly make him live a happy life, and We will most certainly give them their reward for the best of what they did.
Surah 33:35
Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember -- Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.
Surah 36:56
They and their wives shall be in shades, reclining on raised couches
Surah 39:34
They will have with their Lord whatever they desire; that is the reward of those who good.
Surah 43:70
Enter the garden, you and your wives; you shall be made happy.
Verily the Companions of the Garden shall that Day have joy in all that they do; (The Noble Quran, 36:55)"
"(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)? (The Noble Quran, 47:15)"
"As to those who believe and work righteous deeds, they have, for their entertainment, the Gardens of Paradise, (The Noble Quran, 18:107)"
"And those who feared their Lord will be led to the Garden in crowds: until behold, they arrive there; its gates will be opened; and its keepers will say: 'Peace be upon you! well have ye done! enter ye here, to dwell therein.' (The Noble Quran, 39:73)"
"They will say: 'Praise be to God, Who has truly fulfilled His Promise to us, and has given us (this) land in heritage: We can dwell in the Garden as we will: how excellent a reward for those who work (righteousness)!' (The Noble Quran, 39:74)"
"But those who have faith and work righteousness, they are companions of the Garden: Therein shall they abide (For ever). (The Noble Quran, 2:82)"
"Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous, (The Noble Quran, 3:133)"
"Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception. (The Noble Quran, 3:185)"
There are many more Noble Verses that elaborate on the Great Reward and Joy that the Believers (men and women) will have in Heaven, but I think the above Noble Verses are good enough to prove my point.
BROTHER PLZ DONT CLOSE UR EYS BEFORE MY POSTS AND ATLEAST READ THE VERSES I HAVE GIVEN AS ANSWERS, IF U READ IT U CAN'T SAY 'ITS NOT STRAIGHT' BCOZ ITS INDEED STRAIGHT.
malabari...the quote from Qu'ran that i posted is not "anti-islamic" because it is from Qu'ran, right? the answer you posted is irrelevant to my Question, and thus make you more defensive rather than giving me a straight answer. If it's not found in the Qu'ran, then tell me straight. If so, i need clarrification and not some more of your defensive response. Just a straight answer to my question, please.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
its an anti islamic blog, so the things are explained to misunderstand islam, their only aim is to behold the attention towardz brothers like coelcanth to islamphobia
i want u to read islam in authentic sites not anti islamic.
and the blog nowhere tell about ur claim "suicide bombers"
sucide is strictly forbidden in islam and killing also.
Warfare is an awesome evil" (2:217),
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"
"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"
"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"
"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"
Fight in the cause of God TO THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU , but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.” (4:90)
or to preserve decent values [22:40]. But Muslims may never initiate hostilities, and aggression is forbidden by God [2:190]
quran teach us that
"if anyone slew a person, it is as if he slew the whole mankind
and if anyone save a person, it is as if he save the whole mankind"
Holy Quran says that if anyone slew a person it is as if he slew the whole mankind and if anyone saves a person it is as if he saves the whole mankind.
i will clarify it now, insha allah (FOR UR DOUBTS ABOUT WOMEN)
Surah 3:195
So their Lord accepted their prayer: That I will not waste the work of a worker among you, whether male or female...
Surah 4:194
And whoever does good deeds whether male or female and he (or she) is a believer -- these shall enter the garden, and they shall not be dealt with a jot unjustly.
Surah 16:97
Whoever does good whether male or female and he is a believer, We will most certainly make him live a happy life, and We will most certainly give them their reward for the best of what they did.
Surah 33:35
Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember -- Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.
Surah 36:56
They and their wives shall be in shades, reclining on raised couches
Surah 39:34
They will have with their Lord whatever they desire; that is the reward of those who good.
Surah 43:70
Enter the garden, you and your wives; you shall be made happy.
SO I FIND NO "INJUSTICE" OR "UNEQUALITY", IN GETTING THE REWARD FOR MEN AND WOMEN
AND THIS HADEED BELOW IS NOT AUTHENTIC
"'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a "
ITS NARRATION NOT MENTIONED HERE also its not saheeh (acceptable)
and let me finish my office work
i have answer some more regarding this.
MY dear,
U r a muslim n trying to tell all christian that Islam has taught all those things same as Jesus but christans r not following their Bible while u r very great person who is following Bible n Quran both ........
Where is our malabari....is he behind Micheal Jackson...
¶¶¶ I have a pair of eyes but I can't see U everyday...
I have a pair of ears but I can't hear U everytime....
But...
I have only one heart that remembers U
everyseconds......¶¶¶
A muslim never pray to jesus. A muslim pray to the one and only allah...so this is for making confusion..
Malabari...maybe something for you to consider with regards to my post of "70 virgins" for the suicide bombers. This is an excerpt to one blogsite where they put the Qu'ran verse and Hadith for referrence.
*******************************************************
If they can make it to heaven, one of the rewards all Muslims are promised is 72 virgins. The number of virgins is not specified in Quran, it comes from a quotation of Muhammad recorded in one of the lesser known Hadith. ("Hadith" is an Arabic word meaning traditions. After Muhammad's death, several collections of his deeds and sayings were assembled. These collections are called Hadith and form the second most authoritative document is Islam, right after the Quran.)
The specific Hadith in which the number of virgins is specified is Hadith Al-Tirmidhi in the Book of Sunah (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah, chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise. The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Quranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman:
"The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]."
(QURAN 37:40-4 : "In the Gardens of Paradise, Facing one another on thrones, Round them will be passed a cup of pure wine; White, delicious to the drinkers, Neither they will have any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache, or sin, nor will they suffer intoxication from it. And with them will be chaste females, restraining their glances, with wide and beautiful eyes."
Homosexuality was and is widely practised in Islamic countries. To please the homosexuals among his followers he promised them pre-pubescent boys in Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life, the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls
(QURAN 52:24): "And there will go round boy-servants of theirs, to serve them as if they were preserved pearls."
(QURAN 56:17): "They will be served by immortal boys."
(QURAN 76:19): "And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls."
It is not surprising that we find contradictions in Islam of views on sexuality. Though sex with these virgin women and boys might be thought of as OK because it is happening in heaven approved by God and not on earth.
source: http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/11/72_virgins.html
*****************************************************
just a thought...if every muslim will be given 80,000 servants and 72 wives, are all those servants muslims also or the non-believers? what about the female muslims who'd die, do they get the same benefits as the male?
A clarrification on these would be appreciated.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
sisterfatima ???
Rig Veda, Vol.6,45:16: "There is only One God, worship Him."
"Truly, your god is truly One!" [Qur'an 37:4]
""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
thanks brother coelcanth and khansiraj
i have answered that narain babu many times, he is repeating, i dont know why and i wonder about his intolerence in this forum.
"there are labour camps many people are suffering,"
plz visit our own website dedicated to the people of somaliya
www.thebuildingblocks.org
i have given its details, my brother is its cheif co ordinator, i think i am not wasting time like narain babu by simply abusing others.
i have the right to start a topic and discuss.
if u have not time to critisize, kindly stay back, am not forcing others to discuss here.
narainbabu...this is a thread for opinionated people, not people thrashing other people. start your own thread and thrash anyone you like.
"Do not do unto others what you don't want others do unto you"
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
Mr narainbabu,mocking somebody personally is in the bad taste. 'Your behavior is your identity'
Why don't you ask your parents?
his okay sounds like hokay hiiiiiiiiii
did not feel like that
dear malabari
You are telling that you are studying all upanishads, bible, quran, sikkisom, buddisom, janison, parsisom etc.etc.
We do not have time to compare and critisize like you. Because our time is precious. If you are studying everything it doesn;t means we have to follow you.
i have seen many many muslims in india and in qatar too. but never seen a person like you. if going through your all correspondence, what i feel that you have started a tit for tat tendency. There are so many people here those who are not interfearing others privacy. There are many muslim people working with me from egypt, lebanon, indonesia, palastine etc.etc. Till this day they never asked us what religion you are or even if we celebrate our feast they never tell us that you believe only in islam. Till this date but i have seen many malabaris like your same tendency.
dear malabari instead of wasting time for these all discussion there are labour camps many people are suffering. Instead of wasting time if you can do something go and do. That is what we are doing(our group)It is not only that we are feeding many cats and street animals and birds. Only thing we do not have time. Better you do something like that
Holy Cowamoley!! This started off as a nice thread to show the similarites between faiths and everyone turned it into this?
No one should call someone elses beliefs "bullshit". Not cool, not respectful.
On that note, Malabari you should have quit when you were ahead. By overcomplicating things and your long religious rants the divide has widened. I know you are trying to be a good muslim by fulfilling your duty to educate but you have only suceeded in turning all the non muslims against you with words such as "non-believers" and such.
I commend you in the defence of Islam but you need to find another way to at least make people understand you rather than detest you as you are coming across as a bit of a superior know it all (I mean no offense, I just dont have any other words to describe your mini essays here in this post).
_______________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Respected brother Nathan am happy now.....now u r started identifying the fullstops & qstn marks......weldone, b4 u didnt.....is diz okey now....?
May allah grace & guide all of us.....
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
where u found full stop...???????
dont misunderstand the Qstn Marks as full stop...?. okay
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
malabari...you okey is not sounds well...okay..
¶¶¶ I have a pair of eyes but I can't see U everyday...
I have a pair of ears but I can't hear U everytime....
But...
I have only one heart that remembers U
everyseconds......¶¶¶
hey dear brotehr....where you found full stop......?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? dont misunderstand the Qs as fullstops.....okey....
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
Thank God...Finally we found one Fulllllllllll Stop...
¶¶¶ I have a pair of eyes but I can't see U everyday...
I have a pair of ears but I can't hear U everytime....
But...
I have only one heart that remembers U
everyseconds......¶¶¶
I didnt said anybody to follow me, then u told me know, "malabari is quoting something from here and there" yes am quoting from here & there bcz everywhere its truth but some peoples are not listening to them.or they are not opening their eyes towards tat side bcz they may addicted false belief or they may misunderstood the real purpose of life without thinking, wat is wrong and what is right..is that clear or not. IF they are not ready to think means its not my fault. then am not compeling anyone here. If they want they can refer based on my thread. Thats all...
thn wat u told.? "malabari is quoting something from here and there" okey brother if you are ready to stop breathing the air from here & there. Then i wil stop quoting frm here and there. As this whole Universe is created by Almighty allah. so i hv full right to preach the divine & pure message of ISLAM anywhere in this world. So dont try to stop my efforts. As all these are only for the sake of almighty allah. Okeyy..so better try to stop someother people.
I wil spread the message of truth, the message of Peace, the message of brotherhood, the message of Love, the message of self respect, the message of honesty, the message of justice, the message of equality, the message of politeness, the message of the real purpose of our life. all thru ISLAM. bcz only ISLAM can fullfill all these things in this world. if you are not intrested in this message or this threads kindly stay back. okey brother. Truth is not the thing, which is forcely given to others. bcz truth shud reflect in our hearts & brain. So it wil automaticly reflects in our life as i told abv. so our life's output will be peace, love, brotherhood etc etc......
Appreciate your kind understanding.
May almighty allah grace & guide all of us...AaameeeeN
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Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
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coelcanth,
"And why would i provide verses in your Qu'ran when i dont read them? "
my Q is 'if u not read it, how can u qoute a false sentence about islam by SIMPLY saying that "i heard it in a TV documentary"?
produce the proof otherwise dont qoute to misunderstand a faith!
i am sure u cannot find single verse for supporting that bashing argument.
I HAVE POINTED OUT THAT QS IN MY PREVIOUS POSTS, KINDLY CHECK BRO
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DEAR me2smiler,
A FORUM DISCUSSION IS NOT A WAY OF ACHIEVEMENT, MAY BE GATHERING KNOWLEDGE. THIS FORUM INTRODUCED ME ABOUT "DIESM" FROM BROTHER COELCANTH (BEFORE, I JUST HEARD ABOUT IT BUT KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT) AND BLA BLA AND DMIGHTYSOLOMON PARTICIPATED PEACEFULLY IN THIS DISCUSSION FOR CHRISTIAN AND REASONING VIEWS.
I DID'NT PLANT MY FAITH ON ANYBODY, U CAN CHECK ALL THE POSTS NOW!
THANK U FOR UR COMPLIMENT ABOUT MY KNOWLEDGE, I AM STUDYING NOT ONLY MY FAITH BUT ALSO HINDUISM AND CHRISTAINITY.
I DID'NT HURT ANYBODY HERE, U CAN CHECK ALL OF MY POSTS.
I DID'NT USED RUDE PERSONAL ATTACKINGS LIKE BROTHER NARAINBABU.(U CAN CHECK ALL OF MY POSTS FROM BEGNNING)
I AM SPEAKING BY SALUTING EVRYONE "BROTHER" AND GENTLE AS I CAN.IF U FIND ANYTHING WRONG FROM ME , AM READY TO APOLOGIZE.
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KHAN SIRAJ,
yes, i think so bcoz i find many similarities.
i dont think about all the things written in bible.
The inspiration behind this forum is the things i am doing as a muslim are mentioned in bible(but christian brothers dont follow it), i found its amazing and may this thread lead to soften the gap between two major faith in the world.
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brother narainbabu, SHSHSHSHS.........
again i can grasp ur "severe angry" (in malayalam 'asahishnutha' simply)from ur wordz.
"malabari is quoting something from here and there and others wants to follow him. best way not to give him answer he doesnt deserve it."
i dont wish to respond ur slapping.
i have already said i did'nt force anybody to follow me like HUMANGODS, i think u know their names in kerala.
LOOK, AT THE POSTS, I DID'NT QOUTE 'SOMETHING' FROM HERE AND THERE. IF U WISH I AM READY FOR A DISCUSSION ABOUT HINDUSIM AND ISLAM.
AS I RESPECT HEARTLY HINDUS BCOZ MY HOMETOWN IS IN A THIKCLY POPULATED HIND(INDIA) AND MY SISTER IN LAW IS A HINDU REVERTED TO ISLAM AND I LOVE TO READ VEDAS AND UPANISHADS.
Many thanks for participating in this thread & for all your compliments.
From this thread my 101% aim is to convey the Divine & pure message of ISLAM, then i didnt abuse any religions here As abusing others is forbidden in ISLAM.By conveying the message of ISLAM am trying to save the peoples (my brothers & sisters) those who disobeys allah & ALlah's commands. Those who are going to be the fuel of Hell Fire. May allah almighty grace all of us. Bcz ISLAM teaches humanity, Love & Peace. So its every muslim's duty to save those who are in wrong path. And I didnt understand what is in my thread to hurt others. Am quoting from their beliefs & from Quran. all are infront of you, u can refer, if those refrences are wrong then say me. I wil stop. instead of refering tat, wat is the use of saying me to stop this thread brother.So i would like to request to you to refer my thread. And think brother y peoples are not purely following Bible. Why they made corrections, for whom they made corrections. etc
Appreciate your kind understanding.
All the best for a divine thinking.....Jst refer to my all threads brother so you will clearly understand i didnt abuse anybody or any religion, again am requesting you to understand the truth or jst spent some time to think,so u wil understand the truth brother. All your questions abt ISLAM are gladly welcome.
(Holy QUran 2:216) Perhaps you May Dislike Something Which Is Really Good for you or Like Something Bad for you, but Allah Knows(What Is Best for you) & You Do Not(know)
this is the same thing i asked this malabari. malabari is quoting something from here and there and others wants to follow him. best way not to give him answer he doesnt deserve it.
I think what Mr Malabar is trying to prove is there is not much difference between christian and Islam if the christianism is followed in original,I mean as written in the bible.Am I correct Mr Malabar?
"who says the sciptures disallows such? I gave you the example of what's written in the scripture that "promotes" incest, why would you tell me that it's a sin as written in the Bible?"
Well Coleacanth I am not talking about Bible because I don't know much about what is in it. I talked about Quran which clearly prohibits incest.
You know alcohol was also allowed for muslims before it was made forbidden. Likewise the scriptures do say God created only a pair of male and female that grew the human race. Hence there was no way other than meeting two siblings to further human race. As the generation grew the same was made forbidden for believers.
Now don't ask me why your God didn't create multiple couples than just Adam and Eve. We muslims don't question God's wisdom....
DEAR MALABARI,
LET ME ASK YOU ONE THING. WHAT DID YOU ACHIEVE BY PUTTING THIS TREAD HERE. WHY YOU ARE PLANTING YOUR OWN INTERESTS INTO OTHERS? WHAT YOU GET FROM THAT? EVERY ONE HAS ITS OWN BELIEF AND THAT IS UNCHAGEABLE FROM EVERYONE'S HEART. I THINK YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD KNOWLEDGE ABOUT YOUR RELIGION. GOOD, KEEP IT UP. AND THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO USE THESE WORDS WHICH HURTS THE MIND OF OTHER RELIGION'S FOLLOWERS. IF YOU ARE EDUCATED PLEASE GET RID OF THESE ISSUES FROM THIS FORUM. TAKECARE DEAR FRIEND.
JAIHIND.
so, when speaking against islam, you can say whatever you want... It doesn't need any evidence, reference or reasoning??? very good. Guys, we are speaking about islam with references which we recieved through Messenger of Almighty. We do not make anything which develops in our own mind. We follow the instructions of Almighty.
I did not receive any reply for m y question yet.
blablabla...who says the sciptures disallows such? I gave you the example of what's written in the scripture that "promotes" incest, why would you tell me that it's a sin as written in the Bible? Does Adam and Eve's children not have sex with each other? What do you call it then? I don't see any contradiction with my reasoning, as my point in giving example in the Bible is to show the flaw which you people believe in.
Malabari...who would i believe then, your scripture? And why would i provide verses in your Qu'ran when i dont read them? My side is reasoning beyond your belief, so i don't need to use your book to reason out my belief. Also, can you point out in your questions which one i didn't touch so that i can give my point with that aspect?
Apologies for answering late coz been busy working and no time for internet. :D
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
we are all answerable to our actions...
"put that "70 virgins" as i saw on TV one documentary done. The figure may not be correct, but it's what i heard. Why would i give you a reference to Qu'ran when i don't believe in either of the book? "
HOW U BELIVED THIS NONSENCE ONCE HEARING!
do not learn islam from anti islamic medias
learn islam from its sources
brother coelcanth
u cannot produce the verses or hadeeds for ur claim(not only the figure but also the entire sentence)
how can u qoute a thing which is not mentioned nowhere in Qur'an or hadeed.
"Why would i give you a reference to Qu'ran when i don't believe in either of the book?"
if u dont believe in it, then why did u qoute that false argument which is not in holy book or hadeeds.
and i know u dont belive bible, then why u used bible to support incest?
STILL I HAVE TO SAY "COMPARE THE POSTS"
Even if it is a discussion, same reason, same stuff is repeated again and again.
If Sweden allowed incest then it is going by the scriptures not reason because the reason(science) clearly finds fault with such relationships. Going by the science, don't you think the authors of the scriptures had better apprehension of what is good for the human beings that they disallowed(made sin) having such relationships. when you reject the practices of people in near history, how can you support the very early, perhaps million yrs back , practices of humans.
Its pity that you justify incest as it folows from the scriptures while rejecting the same. Your reason again failed...Do you see it??
Malabari...i am not bashing your religion. I put that "70 virgins" as i saw on TV one documentary done. The figure may not be correct, but it's what i heard. Why would i give you a reference to Qu'ran when i don't believe in either of the book? I used the Bible in reference because a lot of Christians as well will find it taboo, but the bible stated that. If Adam and Eve is in your Qu'ran, then check if it's also written that they are the first creation. If they are, then they do not need to put in detail how their children had children...but believe me, it's not immaculate conception. :D
blablabla...this is not a debate. This is a discussion. But if you find it that way, then you can just stop posting and stop reading this post.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
but why u worship Jesus?
as u said there is only one GOD and coelcanth will call him allah,yehova, Jehova etc
why ur people worship Prophet jesus(peace be on him) as LORD?
I specifically mentioned that above. There is only one true God.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
JORNALISTGIRL i have already answered this Q with the below verse(abou his jew tradition)
he was VERY clear that he WASNT here to CHANGE the LAW of MOSES (peace be upon him)!
“17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” [Matthew 5:17-18 (New International Version)]
abraham(peace be on him) too circumsized
Genesis 17:9-13 (New International Version)
"9Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant."
I wonder, if Abraham is a jew?
and about muslim prayer(prostration,(sujood-touching forehead on the ground)
"3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him," [Genesis 17:3 (New International Version)]
"22 But Moses and Aaron fell facedown and cried out, "O God, God of the spirits of all mankind, will you be angry with the entire assembly when only one man sins?"" [Numbers 16:22 (New International Version)]
"6 Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of the LORD appeared to them." [Numbers 20:6 (New International Version)]
"14 "Neither," he replied, "but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come." Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, "What message does my Lord have for his servant?"" [Joshua 5:14 (New International Version)]
" 6 Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads." [Joshua 7:6 (New International Version)]
"42 So Ahab went off to eat and drink, but Elijah climbed to the top of Carmel, bent down to the ground and put his face between his knees." [1 Kings 18:42 (New International Version)]
THUS WE FOLLOW EVERY PROPHET
AGAIN SOME OF U ACCUSED ME THAT "AM FORCING" OTHERS TO BELIVE WAT I BELIVE
NO! I ALREADY SAID, THE INSPIRATION BEHIND THIS FORUM IS THAT THE THINGS AM DOING AS A MUSLIM IS MENTIONED IN BIBLE, I FOUND ITS AMAZING THAT WE MUSLIMS FOLLOW BIBLE MORE THAN CHRISTIANS.
brother coelcanth, u did'nt touched all points of mine, u can compare my post and ur answer post.
and about incest, i asked why as a reasoning example, u answered me with bible, i dont fully belive in it but i will not bash it like wat u doing.
GIVE ME A REFERENCE FROM QUR'AN AND HADEED FOR UR CLAIM "sucide bombers are promised 70 virgins for killing infidels.
if u cannot, stop ur bashing!
and u repated allegations "ur book written thousand years ago"
It can be prooved that the Qur'aan is the Word of God, through basic scientific accuracies, prophesises and perfection in linguistics.
if u wish am ready brother.
but still u have to respond all of my answers in ISLAM.
look at the post, U TOUCHED THE MIDDILE PORTION OF LOGIC QS, WHERE IS THE REST?
Malabari, I have one slight query regarding what you wrote up there. It's cool you've put alongside your quotes where you got it from, but regarding the whole circumcision and not eating pork - remember that for all that Jesus became an important figure in Christianity, he was born a Jew. Hence why he may well have not eaten pork and been circumcised. Does that make you a true Jew as well? I don't think so. Maybe more that it underlines how similiar, ultimately, Christianity, Islam and Judaism are - and also why human beings should just quit trying to force religion down others throats (of course, I am by no means accusing you of doing that - just that there are, unfortuantely many others who do this)
Coleacanth,
"As i mentioned, reasoning comes with common sense. The example does provide reasoning, but no common sense."
Just veryfy your reasoning capabilities here:
You said reasoning comes with common sense and you admit the reasoning but deny common sense in the example!
The example I gave applies to all here including me. You need to decide how much is enough. There should be an end to the debate at some point. Don't you think so? The problem with the internet debate is that people have enough time and they usually end up abusing each other out of desperation to win the argument.
Anyways, enjoy your journey...
Platao, I did not get the answer for my question yet. Who is your God? How you follow His Instruction? How do you know which Way you have to Act? And how you know what you do is right?
Malabari ur a great man my friend u can only enplane them my brother
You are Muslim like Jesus :)
Malabari, in response to your questions:
You claim you follow reason. Then why dont you ask the
Hard questions? Why are we here? Because our Father and Mother had sex and we were conceived in our mother's womb.
Why did God create us? - Only God can answer that. I haven't spoken to Him yet...but i'd gladly inform you once i get the chance.
And how about the rules of man? - What about?
Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules? - You are actually living right now on a place where man made the rule...like the traffic rules, for example. I don't find it in the Qu'ran or the Bible. DO you? Is it a man made rule or not?
Look at the state of places like sweden! where incest is legalised! Is this reason??? - I answered on my previous post.
We call this MADNESS!! - How come Adam and Eve's children had sex with each other and you never call it madness?
How you managed to believe God created us all and then left us to roam around like animals is strange. - We were given reasoning to use, and not roam around like animals. Have you seen the advancement of science due to reasoning? Tell me, are we just roaming around like animals?
You dont wonder some people are rich and some are poor? - I don't. Because they chose to be that way and use the phrase "God's plan for them". If you want to be rich like them, strive to be one, not pray!
Why some people are tall and some are short? - because of their genes...it's been explained by science.
some are born with deformaties and some are not? - because of the bad genes present...sometimes because of the effect of the environment and the food that mothers eat during pregnancy.
How we have so much evil and hate? - i don't have. do you? ask those suicide bombers who are now enjoying the 70 virgins promised to them...and those who planned to blow more "infidels" why they have so much evil and hate.
How we can have murderes and rappists? - because of uncontrolled anger and desire of flesh deprived of them.
What are we here? - need to rephrase this...
What is our destination? - it depends where you plan to go...but it all leads to the grave in the end.
Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination? - it's called exploration. Do you think there will be advancement in science if people just followed the "path to destination" and not explore the unexplored?
Why? - why what?
What is the point of all this? -???
WHY ARE WE HERE?? - refer to my reply to this post.
What sort of God created a man like Hitler and a woman like Mother Teresa, and yet they both end up in the same type of grave? - the same God who created suicide bombers who would kill "infidels" just to make a point and get the promised virgins. It is not God to decide your fate...it's you. He gave us reasoning, then use it. Otherwise he can turn us to anyway he wants us to, but he did not do that. Because of the freedom and reasoning.
Is God unjust as you preceive? - I don't perceive God to be unjust...it's the human being he created. He gave us freedom to think and decide for ourselves, and some people wanted more and they become unjust. Can you tell me if the killing of innocent children, man and woman, a.k.a. "infidels" just? Now you tell me if it is God who decide it or yourself?
I hope i answered all your questions with rational thinking and reasoning with common sense.
It's not because things are difficult that we don't dare, it's because we don't dare that makes things difficult!
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