Optimism about Pakistan‏

wilsonp: den DHL

i am not fedex employee, if yu wish to believe so.

what was the thread heading, and where you have reached this topic .

pls go back to your other PERVERT topics, like How to Marry a Millionaire etc etc..... DONT EVER TRY TO DISCUSS A SERIOUS TOPIC. IT IS NOT YOUR CUP OF TEA.

people try to be fashinoable using "haz" "iz" "wat" "r" "da" ............ etc

it is just the US-mania some popole wanted to do in chat rooms "wanna" "gonna"..... immature rubbish !!!!!

some just moan that how threads are turned into chats when they have nothing better to say but 'state the obvious' or 'come up with personal attacks'

stone cold: now that you have identified the problem ie the govt is responsible for whatever happens in and around the country (what a discovery), why don't you suggest a solution as well.

At times I thought its hypocricy syndrome. Everything now are turned in chat room without real facts and substances. And the more of it will put yourself into the wrong shoes.

So W T F u wanna do?

i'm not sure that u r from ur profile country, seem to be in our Neighbor???????

The government of the day have to take full responsibility of what ever its citizen deeds or it is seen deem to failed. To cover one eye on a terrorist act is not a good sign of efficient govenance. And how could you declare yourself a nuclear armed nation while this kind of internal problem remains unsolved.

Arey nahin drywood, woh kisi aur ko bulaney gayi hai:p

"Think 100 times before you take a decision, But once that decision is taken, stand by it as one man" - Muhammad Ali Jinnah

the-birdie, I say without 'but' that Mumble terrorist attack was the heinous act.

I'm quite surprised to read from a moderate and reasonable person like you:

"sending terrorists to neighboring countries and still claim to be "religious" is foolishness. A true believer cannot justify those actions just because a terrorist belongs to my religion. This is applicable to terrorist in ANY religion.... I repeat ANY religion."

Do you really believe that Pakistan government sent those thug into India? If you do, what are the basis? Pakistan is accused of anything wrong that happens in India and vice-a-versa.

Another correction: there are no terrorists in any religion. As every person who calls himself/herself Hindu or Muslim do not represent Hinduism or Islam respectively. A person(s) is himself/herself responsible for his/her acts.

The fact is that India has still not accepted the existence of Pakistan. As long as this is not done the hatred will stay and develop further.

Please do not lose your reasoning when looking at such susses. I am still in awe about your comments.

exiledsaint: u r sooooooooo funy wen u r serious

I'm allowed my opinion and Pakistan is not a stable country. It has only existed since 1947 so in fact its a manufactured country created at the end of colonalism. Part of the problems stem from there and the other problems are due to the inhabitants themselves.

At the moment its one scary place and to have Pakistanis come on this site going woo hoo we are a nuclear power is scary indeed......

This is only for u from the bottom of my heart .... seriously ...

"THERE ARE MAD DOGS IN MY RELIGION TOO. JUST BECAUSE A MAD DOG BELONGS TO MY RELIGION, I WILL NOT BLINDLY SUPPORT"

Any more reservations??

You willing to pay a price .... as v have been doing it for u ... come on b a good ally

Its not for other countries to sort your problems out although they can give you support, its down to your own peopls.

you should not b in this thread my frnd ... cuz v cant discuss with sumone as ignorant as u.

Pakistan needs to be bought by some one...anyone!

Raison D etre: gud arguments. da only issue iz dat nt many ppl convinced wid reasonin n logic

Raison and crapcircle: thanks for coming to this thread.

i really sometimes wonder if reasoning can us get anywhere in a world full of prejudice and hatred.

exiledsaint "Its not for other countries to sort your problems out although they can give you support, its down to your own peopls"

Lets not mince words here, The west supports what supports THEIR interests, sometimes (often) being the cause of our problems!

Otherwise you wouldnt be as predesposed as you are to focusing on 'helping' yourselves to oil rich counties.

Have you forgotten creating the thorn in our side your mini frankenstien Israel?

Here , enjoy a nostalgic walk through a very sinister memory lane http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=970_1251009340

i mean u earnd 1 point on QL wid dis post

crapcircle: u hv a point

Yes the Pakistanis have only themselves to blame. And only when they answered your western demands, fueled by your ridiculous fears of the RED PLAGUE (which destroyed itself in the endpeacefully, bringing the whole intervention's logic in question) spreading, and intervened with full western blessing, the repercussions of which we all know. Therefore Pakistanis should learn from this mistake, and the next time the west comes with another ridiculous demand, wave them off with the same kind of retarded system of gratitude the west has displayed to them!

yousri u r angry. y? bridie iz gud girl just becoz of fasting she lost her reasonin

Come on birdie, please have a break from those matters, dont give me chance to ask you that WHAT YOUR COUNTRY IS DOING WITH KASHMIRI'S? Rape, Kidnapping and Assasination of UNARMED INNOCENT PEOPLE? We are fighting with armed forces who damaged our nation's image, better than what you are doing, isn't? And we better know 600kg or 1000kg bomb matrial never grows on trees. We know who are providing them. Remember that Afghan Government Advisor Ehsanullah's words? ( http://www.town9.com/india-using-afghan-soil).

Now if you please like to stick with the topic dear? If it is that much harder for you, you may leave this page.

"Think 100 times before you take a decision, But once that decision is taken, stand by it as one man" - Muhammad Ali Jinnah

"sending terrorists to neighbouring countries and still claim to be "religious" is foolishness."

dis statement waz hurtin thoug i support both india n pakistan equaly.

if u compare dis india haz greater history of dis. state terrorism in kashmir, asistnaiton of father of da nation, asiscation of 2 prime ministers, gujrat riots, mumbai riots, babri mosque, gold temple n many oders.

pakistan iz still much better on dat bridiedo.

heh- if we say that the-birdie, you will say, well there is no action to support the statement. we can never win.

don't you think mathboy has said it if not directly. yet you claim you never saw a single one say that.. maybe you mean seeing literally

lets arrange a meeting for you with mathboy. since i am a 'sister' i do not qualify :)

by this reaction. It was more or less expected.

i had mentioned that I was really moved by the loooong letter by Mathboy, which really depicts the genuiness of his topic. And I appreaciate his points.

My point was I am not blindly supporting my Religion or my Nation. Mistakes must have happened by all countries.

I want to say the below sentence

"THERE ARE MAD DOGS IN MY RELIGION TOO. JUST BECAUSE A MAD DOG BELONGS TO MY RELIGION, I WILL NOT BLINDLY SUPPORT"

now howmany Paksitani brothers can tell the above sentence. Honestly I have not seen a single ONE. The knees are jerked. Talking BIG things....and every Friday the Friendly Bombings killing 100s....

the-birdie, dont try to hijack the topic. Dont say what you are, PROVE IT by giving this topic some nice climax.

"Think 100 times before you take a decision, But once that decision is taken, stand by it as one man" - Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Its not for other countries to sort your problems out although they can give you support, its down to your own peopls.

Botham was right!

....Alexa!!! You said, "Oh....and also those images we saw about people on the streets in Pakistan burning Western flags and being generally quite vociferous?"

Have you ever thought, WHY these people do THAT? I can never justify this way of protesting and showing your anger.....but cant the WEST stop stirring the shit in someoneelse' pot?

-------------------------------------------------------Whenever I find the KEY to SUCCESS...Someone STEALS it.

exiledsaint!!! there is no need to quote Ian Botham here...and its not the Pakistanis to blame for all the MESS. It would be more appropriate to analyze it from the beginning. Better have some idea about the start of Afghan War (many call it Jihad) as a result of Russian Invasion, "Sources" of promoting Jehadism, strategic interests of some other countries and then leaving Pakistan in the MESS after Russian defeat.

Internal Strife, random murders & planning of terrorist atrocities doesn't exist ONLY in Pakistan.....its happening in almost every part of the world. Remember that We are fighting your WAR.....if you cant help us winning this for you then atleast dont curse us for having the MESS in our country.

-------------------------------------------------------Whenever I find the KEY to SUCCESS...Someone STEALS it.

the-birdie said...."sending terrorists to neighbouring countries and still claim to be "religious" is foolishness."

Yet Again, you are generalizing the issue with your comment. IF all of the attackers were from Pakistan....I repeat IF, even then you just can't blame the entire 17.6 Million people of Pakistan for that. Rest assured, that people at large from Pakistan do respect India (& Indians) and wish to have a healthy relationship between the two neighbouring Nuclear Powers.

If you see the State's Involvement in those attacks, you definitely are inspired by the Indian Electronic & Print Media. If you overlook the history between the two countries for a while.....and put your feet in our shoes, could you still think like that? Can Pakistan as a State afford to have such kind of Adventure under the prevailing situation WIHTIN the country?

You said, you still have to see a single Pakistani to condemn the incident loud & clear standing on the roof.....you would find MILLIONS.

We can never encourage TERRORISM as We have remained the VICTIMS of it for long. We want PEACE and just PEACE.

-------------------------------------------------------Whenever I find the KEY to SUCCESS...Someone STEALS it.

Its a great place to send your mother in law on holiday and that's about it.... you can help but think the Pakistanis only have themselves to blame why their country is in such a mess. By mess I mean, internal strife, random murders, murder of politicians, planning of terrorist attrocities worldwide...

Lets face it at the moment Pakistan makes Zimbambwe look like a good retirement destination.

Alexa said: Al of you are saying what "the media" is portraying about Pakistan is wrong.

if this is your interpretation of our thread here, maybe other posters will bother replying to you, i won't.

Alexa: You are offensive, please remove yourself

doodlebugs: the-birdie iz ful upto mouth wid hatred (dats y she don't fast) wont undrestand da rite thing

india has set examples in many fields for pakistan. i just mentioned one in my previous post. i and i believe many of my countrymen acknowledge that.

the-birdie, you said: sending terrorists to neighbouring countries and still claim to be "religious" is foolishness.

i speak for myself. i would not accuse someone of something specific unless in know for sure one way or the other. knowing how dirty political agendas are (all over the world), i would not take responsibility of any of such blames either.

let me share an example with you. in my university days, students were used by political parties as ammunition (pakistanis would remember PSF and MSF, representatives of PPP and PML). once they exchanged fire on campus, costing lives, and what followed that was worse. that day i learned that your own govt will use you, the masses, for their dirty agendas and propaganda. now i choose to refuse to be naive and part of that.

i dont have anything else to say to you the-birdie.

i belong to india n pakistan. n i hate wen ppl like birdioeoa talk nonsense.

I like that drywood. Seriously both countries are amazing. My ancestors belong to India. It's only a bunch of ppl who do not want to live in peace and will always come up with something. We fail to use our common sense to analyze different situations and believe in wat the media portrays

PEACE!!

birdie iz sick sufern frm pakphobia. biride: india iz gud pakistan iz gud. y u r bad bady?

I am not here to fight. I am just giving justifications and expecting some .... but probably birdie is going off track and looking to avoid a healthy discussion.

PEACE!!!

y u guys fight? minhajj u make the-birdie v angry. bridie wil cut da ice today b4 breakfast n minhaaj after

Watever is wrong is wrong. No one can justify the Mumbai attack nor the babri mosque incident. BUT .... u do not have an answer to my earlier BUT ..... rite??

Mumbai attack was a "terror attack" and still to be proven that sumone from Pakistan was involved, although I dont rule out the possibility.

Babri mosque incident was a attack on a religion, which has never happened in Pakistan. Infact the Baluchistan govt once shifted the site of the Dam cuz it was affecting the visibility of a temple.

... ur argument does not cut much ice

it is a fashionable for many pakistanis to talk like this,,the typical sentence is like this "it is a gruesome act, but - - - - -"

why BUT ??..... why IF ?....

if a person blindly beleive in a religion, this happens

i am NOT.

I do agree ,say in the rooftop, there are MAD DOGS, in my religion, who did the notorious act of demolishing the Babri mosque,

why I cannot see Pakistanis, a single one, to say the same above sentence, on the rooftop, in honesty...

this is the difference , between the two nations....!!!

and you should not pretend to see the differnce.

Just how did pakistan breeds these bunch of rock & roll guys and the authority did not stem it out at its roots. Can we further say shooting of a visiting sports team next.

I guess birdie is referring to the Mumbai attack. My frnd no doubt it was a gruesome act. It shudnt have happened. But u know after all this horrifying episode of Mumbai attack, one thing still amazes me. That a bunch of terrorists sailed all the way from Karachi to Mumbai with loaded up with all the amunition with complete safety. I heard someone telling me that the Indian Navy allowed them to sail away cuz they waived a white flag on their way (dont know if this is true).

I fail to understand that how can a country like India, whose spending billion of dollars on defence budget, could not figure out this.

i wish to continue in the discussion..... but due to some reason, I wish to keep away.

I wish to appreciate the letter by Mathboy and the post by Doodlebugs..... very valid points are raised.

the correction has to be done within the Nation... not by the words from "outsiders" like me...

50% of both countries Defence budget can be saved and utilized in the reconstruction of the respective countries, had both countries had mutual trust..

sending terrorists to neighbouring countries and still claim to be "religious" is foolishness. A true believer cannot justify those actions just because a terrorist belongs to my religion. This is applicable to terrorist in ANY religon.... I repeat ANY religion.

As long as we keep looking for our aspirations and information mere source from print media and electronic media, we are not going to be able to overcome our turmoils. Unless, we really educate ourselves in real sense by having a gut to differntiate between good and bad, and not by the footage of any biased tv channel or newspaper. Don't forget, no matter the media has role but afterall they are commercial entities.

Another optimism, Media use to potray that schools (madrassas) in pakistan teaches & breeds terorrist. What do you say on this.

When we learn to eliminate the difference between "I" and "We", we can undoubtedly claim ourselves as a proud nation. The real core issue of our society and the instabiltiy of Pakistan is tht the specific issues where we are suppose to behave as "We" we deliberately indulge in chanting and acting as "I " and whenever it comes out of circumstances that our homeland demands to behave as an individual, we just behave so naively and start quoting other's achievment's stories or failures, by forgetting our duties and responsibilties. One should ask for his/her rights when he/she can atleast differentiate between duties and rights.

Last but not least, if we are called Pessimists, we don't mind coz after all if the aeroplane was invented by an Optmist the Parachute was invented by Pessimist.

Long Live Pakistan

u r guys r too serious. who will read all dis

I often see people on QL accuse pakistanis' of 'turning a blind eye' to their internal problems and proclaiming pride for small achievements. to those, i say, please dont bother with this thread.

for those who have an open mind, being a pakistani, i can say that there are many problems in our country and we know what it is like to struggle against them. based on my personal experiences, i will mention a couple.

unfortunately pakistan is still a feudal society. feudalism has blocked progress and development in semi-urban and rural areas (70% of Pakistan). the biggest feudal lord is the president of pakistan these days. if we could get rid of feudalism (india did so), we could take power from a couple and distribute it to many. one wonders how? is there an infrastructure there? yes, in the entire rural region, there is a panchaiayat system (punjab/sindh) and jirga system (blaoch/nwfp). both are, in essence, very similar to the county system in Britian which is manageable and practical.

the second problem that i have come across is the interest-based banking system. there is a big population of people whose forerfathers took small loans and thanks to the compound interest system, the 3rd generation is still paying it back. for instance, say, your grand father took 100 rupees as a loan to buy a bull for ploughing the field. he could not pay it back as the amount doubled in no time. with the currrent interest system, you will be paying over a million back. what is the solution? we need to revise the banking system now. i know a step was taken by the state bank in pakistan recently that every bank had to set aside some form of quota for islamic banking http://www.financeinislam.com/article/6_31/1/431.

these problems are not unique to pakistan, efforts to fight them maybe are. all we need is proper leadership to help efforts yield. we do not have certain societal issues there such as racism. why not, because there is only one race there. we dont have 'caste-ism' in our society. i never knew the family names of most of my friends. it does not mean anything really if you are a cheema or chaudhry or hashmi. the only undertone is of provencial identities (i am punjabi or balochi etc). even that is not huge. i will write more..

Minhajj, i can feel the heat after getting know who are using what to destabilize our homeland. I am 21yrz old and i know much hell about who are my land's friends and enemies. Leave me, my 11.9yr old brother knows who are the, so called hidden, supporters of terrorists living in northern areas. But U see, Allah is watching. Allah knows everything. Let something to get solved by Allah at the end of world and just promote the message of Love n Peace.

"You can imprison a Man, but not an Idea. You can exile a Man, but not an Idea. You can kill a Man, but not an Idea." BENAZIR BHUTTO

Pakistan came into existence based on religion. But do u have any idea who is using these Religious Fascism against Pakistan. A mere fact that India has 9 different Indian consulates in Afghanistan says it all. No one can ever justify these 9 consulates. PEACE .......

I am really glad you brought this up. Thank you so much.

We do agree that these are the facts but before we dwell upon them we have to define the quantum and the extent of these issues and if we do not do that then we would waste our energy on isolated incidents which are not the representative of the whole society. If we would like to conduct a scientific research on women's issues/incidents in Pakistan in your opinion how large the sample should be? Remember that we have to generalize 176 million people of Pakistan and more than 86 million Pakistani women based on this sample! Most of the propagators e.g. the writer of the underlying article on women, quote 2 or 3 or 5 incidents and make naive people believe that this is what the whole country is about. The sample they use is not even statistically sufficient to generalize on 100 people and we are here talking about something close to 200 million. Use strategy to understand these complicated issues.. they are not just the wit for local entertainment. The serious things should have serious considerations.

Discrimination against women exists in Pakistan. Nevertheless I would really like to know the name of any country on this planet where there is no discrimination and discrimination against women. To understand that we have to study how the socialites are structured. Every country and every society is a male dominated. I do agree that many countries have laws protecting rights of their citizens but how effective these laws are when they come into practice. Traditionally power and control has remained in the hands of a small cliché of men in every society and every culture from pre-history till this day. How many modern democracies have women in leading positions? Does this mean women can't lead.. No.. but they are not being given the opportunities by men to reach into those positions . USA never had a woman president. UK had only one female prime minister. India the largest democracy had only one female prime minister. In most of the continental Europe and the UK the female students have higher ratio in universities than male students and their performance and brilliance is generally better than their male counterparts. But they still lag behind almost in every field. What you think is the issue? The whole point is that this is an issue of every country and Pakistan alone cannot be singled out. We take our incompleteness with the rest.

To your second point, incidents as quoted in the article did happen but they are isolated ones. I repeat they are the isolated ones. One could pick similar few incidents in a large country and say that 'this is what happens there'.. of course it does happen but without looking at the extent don't you think it would be a total waste?. Pakistani law, as the laws of any country provides protection to minorities, women and men alike. But if you are looking for a crime-free society.. that's not achievable in Pakistan nor in any other country in this world unless we choose to live in imaginations.

I do agree that we should do everything to ensure that these issues do not exist but unfortunately government had not done a great job on that ever since we got independence. Islam honours and protects women the way no other religion or system does. Another fact is that most of the people in Pakistan strongly believe in Islamic values. The isolated incidents that we talked about generally happened in very backward rural areas of Pakistan where people are uneducated and less civilized compared with Urban and even with other rural areas. I would rather call these incidents 'weired' as weired as getting married a girl with a holy book in Sindh or with a dog somewhere in India. Media hype is not a positive thing as they do not look deep into the issues and people who know little are befooled by media propaganda and false analysis. Media has not just exaggerated but also misquoted, quoted out of context, propagated, overstated, lied and misled the misguided in the most unprincipled and reckless fashion. Generally the propaganda seems to be the most life-like and convincing to many outsiders. I think portrayal of a type by any media has to be essentially and basically realistic by the very nature of the case.

Why many 'elites' and intellectual have not taken a big stab on these issues because they knew and they know the truth. And truth is what you know now perhaps. Why media does this to Pakistan.. I answered it above. Let's take the example of Qatar. If you read local English language newspapers you would note that they hardly report a positive news about Pakistan. I wonder a big country like Pakistan has no other news than the ones reported by these newspapers. Let's go beyond what we read.. See things with your own eyes, feel them with your own heart and think with your own mind.. And use good judgment.. everything is obvious.

As to the issues of Pakistan, I would say that those issues are largely non-existent. My above statement was not about political and economic situation in Pakistan. It was about issues related to women, minorities, misinterpretation of Islam, Talibans and their advances within Pakistan. I would not highlight economic situation as the world is going through the recession and no one is spared though some economies are hit harder than others. Political situation has improved lately in Pakistan. It is a democratic government which still has the support of opposition on all matters which relate to larger issues.

Of course some women but not just women but men too are deprived of many things including education. Any intelligent person can understand the class system and poverty and evils associated with them. When we say 'equal opportunities', it is not exactly what the words say. No one has equal opportunities in this world. There are less privileged people and people with unique and different circumstances. They should be integrated into the system but there are many barriers to it. And they are again not Pakistan specific! You would perhaps be surprised to know that number of female students is higher in schools and collages when compared with male students. There is one thing which deserves to be mentioned as I have personally witnessed it. That is even girls in remote villages are studying for bachelors and master degrees and even degrees like MPhil. I would not take this as a sample to generalize but it is a sign of great progress and advances of women in the society.

Women are treated with great dignity and are much more in peace if compared with many other countries. This relates to our Islamic, social and cultural values. I would like to compare it not with Saudi or Afghanistan but with USA, UK, Germany and India or any other developed country in the world. Women in Pakistani society have choices of their own but are protected and respected—our values call for it. Compared with individualistic societies where women are left all alone under the so called umbrella of 'independence', our society provides all the freedom to women while men still remain their guardians. Mother is thought to be 'holy' for her sons, sister remains the honour of her brothers, wife is the most lovable women who is provided with love and security by her husband, a daughter is blessing to her father and he remains her sponsor and guardian as long as he lives. Not everyone in Pakistan is a practicing Muslim but majority observes these values.

I agree. We should identify and correct the problems.. but to do that you will have to identify the real problems then only we can work out a solutions. We do recognize the existing problems. You would never find someone saying that Pakistan has the best economy or the best political system or the best education system.. We don't.. However You cannot resign to the notion that the nuclear arsenal is going to fall into the hands of few extremists. It's merely a joke... and I think no one should take a joke seriously!

There is a systematic approach towards teaching Islam to kids in school. Islamic study is one of the many compulsory subjects in schools and collages. Students learn the basic concepts not the 'fiqa' and all large groups of Muslims strictly have the common belief on the basics. The room for misinterpretation is a very little. The differences you see among Muslims are on minor issues related to general practices which do not do any harm anyway. People who generally think that many issues of great concerns are caused by Islam are the ones who have a complete lack of understanding of Islam and Muslims. Under these circumstances we cannot with any justification put the responsibility even partly on religion.

The entire tragedy of Pakistan has one parent cause, all other causes being only contributory. And that is crooked and dishonest type leadership. It is very simple to understand that the approach is top-to-bottom. Education reform should be brought, but to bring a change or to improve we need competent decision makers. It is very simple to say educate people. I say that too. but how to make a system and bring a large reform.. I would say educate everybody to the highest level.. but.. how should we do that unless we have resources and institutions in place. Things do not happen by themselves. The change is taking place but the pace is slow. Here I would think that every Pakistani should elect leaders who have the passion and honesty to serve the nation not to bump their own bank accounts. Good leadership can do miracles.. Dr Mahatir of Malaysia is one of the good examples of the modern time.

I hope you know facts little more than you did before reading this post!

How image can be improved? I would say just by uncovering the facts. I mean the facts not my or anyone's perceptions. For example...one of the facts is that women are much better placed in Pakistani society than many other societies in the world. This is what I meant by uncovering the facts. Tell people the truth not the tales.

I'm a sane realist and see reality in all its stark ugliness and beauty. I personally realize to put the matter on a very simple level indeed, that we systematize and establish institutions and 'all is light'.

I am not sure if this was sufficiently convincing but it is so nice of you that you raised so many good, relevant and current issues.

the-birdie, Your post is not misunderstood as I know, after reading some other posts of yours, you are a thoughtful lady. Not every Indian is against Pakistan. And, believe me most of the Pakistanis are neither against India nor Indians.

I'm glad you pointed out that we did talk about trivial things and left out the real problems. I'm coming to a very basic question. What are Pakistan's real problems? You said Relgious Fascism, which is not correct. This terminology itself is wrong. Not only in Pakistan, but it is not true anywhere on this earth. You might have some examples to quote in this regard, but please analyze them statistically before you draw a conclusion.

I generally do not engage in such discussions with everyone, but I see you a person who would see the right when shown. I'm posting below a note which I wrote a few months ago to an Indian friend of mine (a very fine fellow), who had many misconceptions about Pakistan and was completely swayed by the media propaganda.

He brought up many issues of Pakistan and Pakistani women being victims of the social and economic desecration, being a major one. He raised following questions:

- How much is the lethergic political system responsible for all this nonsense?

- How much is the misinterpretation of Islam responsible for this?

- How many of you think that woman is more than a commodity and should be treated with dignity and respect? If yes, than how the hell these 'CIVILISED PEOPLE' butcher women and girls like animals, why cant some NGOs/social groups/social activists etc come forward to stop such non sense?

- How much is the Pak youth responsible for favouring the so called representatives of Islam/Democracy?

- Do you think that the values given in the religion should be given a global thought and not to the territory specific?

- Can the Pak youth think of something which can re establish the lost image of Pak/Islam globally (I am not sure how feasible this would be in the given situations)?

Please read my note appearing in the following post which I wrote in response to his above questions. I think you will find it interesting. You are raising quite similar points.

I am quite sure my post will be misunderstood, since I am an Indian. If the same post was written by a Pakistani, may be someone see reason in it.

I read the letter in GT in the moring itslef, but did not know the author is here among us ...lol... congratulations

but achievement of a Nation is just producing more CCNAs, MCPs, OCPs, Red hat Linux professinals ?... We should not project our image with those cosmetic characters, but should address the internal issues.

The very concept of creation of the Nation of Paksitan was wrong. The theocratic dictatorship which ruled the country did take the country back to 50 years. While appreciating the achievement in Cricket, Hockey, Snooker or A Level or O level exams, Relgious Fascism has been a curse for the Pakistan,,,,,, not a blessing.

When young generation like Mathboy identify the real internal issues and fight them, Paksitan can emerge as a Modern Nation.

Exactly mathboy. And this internal problem should be address at its root before anything else. These Taliban has no value added to Pakistan right.

Stone Cold, The world does not see Pakistan in RIGHT perspective. Taliban issue has been over-exaggerated in the media and that's the only facet of Pakistan which the international media is showing to people. Its a case of sheer naivete of many people who just see what they find at the half page of a newspaper and form their impressions.

killibilli and minhajj, you guys are amazing and very precise.

Tat's even a bigger achievment. Cuz the british invented something and v taught them how to handle it. Unfortunately they are still learning and trying to win something out of their own inventions. Lolz

cuz the driver of the expensive car was kept under arrest till now. We are suppose to commnet about the positives of Pakistan and ur talking abt internal problems.

Please read my mail Hanif bhai.

"You can imprison a Man, but not an Idea. You can exile a Man, but not an Idea. You can kill a Man, but not an Idea." BENAZIR BHUTTO

So Pakistan holds four world titles in sports invented by the British. Do they have world titles in any sports they invented?

Well Pakistan is one of the best countries to live in if the bloody F**k other countries stopped interfering in its internal matters. As far as i know we are fighting other peoples battle. The area where pak army is currently fighting the so called militants is not because they are threat to pakistan but cause some so called civilised nations have given them the tagg of terrorist. Every nation have problems, tell me one that doesnt has. So just targetting pakistan is not fair at all

There was also a young Pakistan born boxer of UK....who was in the Olympics...a very promising boxer....forgot his name....

Nuclear power is just not about everything. Look at the internal problem first to see if that be solved. Its like owning a expensive cars and dosen't knows how to drive it around.

How about the only Muslim country to be the Nuclear Power.

The only country to have four world cup titles in different sports (Cricket, Hockey, Squash and Snooker)at the same time.

side of the coin to gain attention. Hope somebody is listening at GT Qatar.

You are right. The world does not see pakistan in your prospective. Infact TVs and medias have been busy reporting the Talibans threat within your country. I guess thats the first thing you must rid off amidst the current success your country achieved in countering their threat. Not just countering but finish them off once and for all.