Mother convicted of killing foetus in traffic
Dubai: In an unprecedented ruling, a court on Sunday convicted a mother of accidentally killing her foetus in a traffic accident, prompting a prosecutor to stress that the law preserves the right of foetuses to live.
The Dubai Traffic Court of First Instance fined the 27-year-old Lebanese woman Dh2,000 and ordered her to pay Dh20,000 in blood money for accidentally killing her nine-month-old foetus. The blood money is to be paid to the foetus's successors. A person has to pay 10 per cent of blood money for accidentally killing a foetus, according to Sharia. In the UAE, blood money amounts to Dh200,000.
Salah Bu Farousha, Head of the Traffic Public Prosecution, advised women in the third trimester of pregnancy to avoid driving except in cases of urgent need.
"We are trying to protect the foetuses' rights to live... that right is protected by law. Pregnant women who are about to deliver should protect theirs and their foetuses' lives and avoid driving as much as possible except in emergencies. The Federal Penal Code punishes any suspect who accidentally causes the death of an individual," Bu Farousha told Gulf News. He said he considered the foetus to be a life. Hence, the woman was prosecuted.
The fine was suspended for three years, during which the accused must not repeat the crime.
The woman said she was not at fault. Records said the nine-month-old female foetus died after the umbilical cord was cut.
Bu Farousha said they charged the woman with reckless driving and failing to keep a safe distance with the car ahead of her.
"We have laws which protect foetuses and yesterday's verdict should be a deterrent," he said.
"We ruled out any criminal intentions and concentrated on the mother's accidental error, recklessness and failure to keep a safe distance. We prosecuted the woman to protect the foetus's rights and because accidental killing is punishable by law."
What do you think of this decision? Have you heard of a similar case anywhere else?
http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Traffic_and_Transport/10310180.html
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"We are trying to protect the foetuses' rights to live... that right is protected by law. Pregnant women who are about to deliver should protect theirs and their foetuses' lives and avoid driving as much as possible except in emergencies. The Federal Penal Code punishes any suspect who accidentally causes the death of an individual," Bu Farousha told Gulf News. He said he considered the foetus to be a life. Hence, the woman was prosecuted.
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"EXCEPT IN EMERGENCIES"-(like what?)**** did the Judges consider this????
...WOMEN FORCE! that's what that poor woman needs to seek justice!!!
diamond also wrote that because a foetus was considered a living being a father was able to seek damages. That's where the parallel comes in.
Tallg, what Diamond wrote is applicable even in Europe. Recognizing the fact that the foetus after a 'medically decided" time frame, is a living human being is not in question.......... which by the way, according to islam, it's at 7-9 weeks (as soon as the heartbeat is registered).
At nine months that baby was ready to be born, poor little soul.
What is the wrong part, is how this was handled by the UAE courts. Protecting the rights of the foetus is one thing, charging the mother with MANSLAUGHTER is another all together!
It's like so many other "made up" laws you can see so often in the UAE. Designed to remove freedom, and discriminate. The poor woman was used as an example.
What about all the people in this region that drive with their children hanging out of windows, jumping up and down in the car, no seat belts......no car seats????
But of course...........that's just an ACCIDENT........
Lets all go back to the stone age............WOMEN, stay at home..........lie in bed............don't move, because GOD FORBID you might get your kids killed because you are a woman and therefore are less able.....! How stupid does that sound?
PS. Tallg, sorry to hear you are leaving :( best of luck ;)
"The woman said she was not at fault. Records said the nine-month-old female foetus died after the umbilical cord was cut."
I'm curious. Where was the cord cut...at hospital? If so, the ruling could have been that the baby was going to be still born, and the accident was just a coincidence?
smile lots laugh more
"A person has to pay 10 per cent of blood money for accidentally killing a foetus, according to Sharia"
HANG ON JUST A MINUTE HERE!!!!
Sharia is law devised from the Quran. The woman did not kill that baby. God did. They blame humans for Gods decisions?
"No soul can ever die except by Allah's leave and at a term appointed" Quran 3:145
diamond - thanks for that information. Interesting to know that other places take the same view on endangering foetuses.
mandi, it looks like they're saying she was at fault for not leaving enough space between her and the car in front, which technically she should have but it seems an odd thing to prosecute for. I think it's an overall thing of not taking enough care given the fact she was carrying a baby. But I agree that surely it means the car that struck her should also pay blood money.
I read the article in the Peninsula and was a little confused. In the Pen it said that she was struck from behind, forcing her into the car ahead. In the US, when one is rear-ended it is never considered that person's fault. Yes, she struck the car in front but that was as a result of her being hit.
Mandi
Here is an article written in 1996 about cases and rulings in the US in favour of foetuses being injured of killed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/a-mother-her-baby-and-the-bottle-1364089.html
........courts in seven states have delivered rulings in defence of foetuses damaged even during the pre-viable stages of pregnancy, in other words during the same time-frame in which an abortion under Roe v Wade would have been perfectly legal. Thus, last December, the West Virginia Appeals Court ruled that an 18-week-old foetus killed in a car accident could be viewed as having been a living human being, opening the way for the father, who lost mother and foetus, to seek damages.
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zayd - yes, I came to that conclusion above.
PM - yes, the article mentions Shariah and Federal. I was enquiring what the difference was and which was used, as it seems unclear from the article.
oh it's already been said...sorry then :S
tallg, there is a huge difference between the "baby in the lap" example you're giving here and the case of a pregnant woman. A woman with a baby in her lap could do something more to add to the safety of her baby and protect a life that can't protect itself (namely by using a car seat or even leaving the baby at home if its presence is not necessary). In the other case the mother has no option but to have the child in a relatively "dangerous" spot...its her duty to be careful while driving but i think that most of us try to be as careful as possible anyway. Accidents happen...there's as much sense in charging her blood money as charging henry ford.
there is no other option about where to put it. It's in your belly; can't strap it in the back seat or something.
That said, this region (to my knowledge) doesn't have ANY laws about child safety/restraint seats, and they rarely enforce seatbelt rules or having children ride in the back seat, so their charging this woman seems rather fickle in this situation.
But it also has to be understood that women's lives don't -- and CAN'T -- just STOP when they become pregnant. We work, drive around town and do errands, shuttle our other kids to and from activities, go out with our husbands...
Unless the government wants to become a whole lot MORE of a welfare state, they should trust that most women don't recklessly endanger themselves or their fetuses.
As another poster brought up too: why is the line drawn at third trimester? Is this because currently only fetuses of 24 weeks of age are viable outside of the uterus? Then they should say that (because with medical advances, that may change).
And if they're going to make this a law, then by God, EVERY 6 month old fetus that dies as a result of what they see as negligence better be prosecuted as manslaughter... You can't just pick and choose who to charge and who to let slide.
"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."
-- Maya Angelou
Yes, that's what I concluded above.
Manslaughter is defined simply as an accidental death. I am not sure how manslaughter applies to a fetus as it is not yet born. Tricky to say the least. She could be charged with negligence, that I can understand. Gypsy is point on about how this could happen in various ways, and I must say a person is probably more likely to fall down a flight of stairs in the third tri than get in a car accident. I also dont agree with the premise that because she was driving she is being charged. If she is advised that she should have a driver the same thing could have happened.
Tallg, huge difference between having a newborn and an unborn baby in the car. If you can put a feotus in a car seat I would love to see this.
___________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Tallg, I guess it's more like manslaughter. Sometimes the laws here in the region just frazzle me.
Motherhood...The hardest job you'll ever love! : )
I think it's more akin to manslaughter than murder.
Like the court is calling it an accidental death, but they are underhandedly treating the mother as a murderer.
Motherhood...The hardest job you'll ever love! : )
I don't know how to explain what I mean when I said murder. If it was an accidental death, then wouldn't you think the court would say, what a horrible accident, I am sorry for your loss. but instead, they put her on trial and now she has to pay blood money, kind of has the feel of murder to it.
Motherhood...The hardest job you'll ever love! : )
My mother's friend was a passenger in a car that got into an accident when she was 9 months pregnant. She lost the baby as a result, luckily the Canadian government didn't press charges against her or the driver (her husband).
It doesn't say it was murder. It says accidental death.
how the line of questioning during prosecution of the case was carried out. In the scenario that the mother slipped, it could be arued in a different way as compared to the scenarion that the mother is driving. As I said, so many thing to elaborate in this decision but news is limited. What was written in the news does not give the full details of the accident! Unless the full text of the court proceedings was brought-out, then maybe we could understand (or not) how the decision was reached!
"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"
"dgoodrebel is not plastic"
how can an accident be murder... :/
That's a good point MikaylasMom.
I don't see how it's a different scenario. She needs the car to get around as much as she needs her legs, especially in Dubai. The accident could just as easily of happened if someone else was driving the car.
The difference is the invention of the car seat. However, in all honesty that's not even 100%. The thing is accidents happen, and while surely there are ways to prevent every accident, like never leaving the house, ever driving, etc. There just not reasonable alternatives.
here the message is clear, protect the baby. ALthough the decision was really quite surprising, but no one really could argue differently.
But in the scenario as Gypsy is saying (where a pregnant mother slips and also kill her baby), it's a different scenario as in driving. But who knows, no one really knows how they view accident there? Maybe or maybe not?
"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"
"dgoodrebel is not plastic"
wonder what the difference is between having a car accident that kills your unborn baby and riding in a car with your newborn on your lap. It seems to me the mentality around here is if your kids die in a car accident, then it was their time to go, but if your unborn child dies in the same manner, then it's murder? That doesn't make any sense. If children's lives were so important here wouldn't all these people have their children in car seats???
Motherhood...The hardest job you'll ever love! : )
No gypsy, of course not. As I said above, I'm playing devil's advocate.
The fact is that, judging from the comments on this thread, people wouldn't think it's manslaughter if the day before a baby is born the pregnant women is driving and has an accident and the foetus dies.
But I'd bet they'd all think it was manslaughter if the day after the baby was born she had it on her lap and the same thing happened.
I guess the argument is that she has an alternative to placing the baby on her lap, but not to where she places the foetus.
But I can kind of see where the court is coming from.
SO what are you going to do Tallg, confine her to the house so she can't move around? She could slip and fall down the stairs too.
Accidents happen.
dmighty - but you'd condemn someone driving with a new born baby on their lap, wouldn't you?
Agreed lusitano, that bit is stupid.
I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to get people think about the difference between driving with a foetus and driving with a new born on your lap. I expect must people here would have no problem with the first but would condemn the second. But is there really a difference?
There's a reason that pregnant women are advised not to do things like skiing - because a nasty fall or bump puts the foetus at risk. Why is driving any different?
My wife is in her third trimester and is still driving. I'm fine with that, but stories like this make you think.
whether a feotus or young child on your lap, still the same. Just hope that accident don't happen. No accident, nothing to argue!
"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"
"dgoodrebel is not plastic"
yes tallg, the woman who lost the baby has to pay blood money to the baby's mother!
Sharia law and UAE at their best!
She should have driven more carefully, but she had no intention to kill her baby.
What if she slipped walking down the stairs and killed the baby? Are we not going to allow pregnant women to walk either?
Yes, I'm aware the foetus is protected in the womb, but obviously it didn't provide enough protection in this case. Hence my original question still stands.
So they used Sharia Law to calculate the blood money, and Federal Penal Code to charge her?
An unborn baby is protected by the placenta and the womb... he is relatively much safer than any newborn baby..
This is why they don't put pregnany women is car seats!
in your queston if a man is driving and same scenario where the fetus of passenger dies, maybe they will aalso prosecute with the same argument!
I go with Brit about the message about the decision. It is legitimate but there were really a lot to elaborate!
"Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship"
"dgoodrebel is not plastic"
from the article:
"A person has to pay 10 per cent of blood money for accidentally killing a foetus, according to Sharia. In the UAE, blood money amounts to Dh200,000."
This law is really very confusing and not justified at all.
First of all, she didn't intend to happen to her unborn baby or near to be born baby to be killed like this
.
Secondly, in this case she hit somebody from behind but I would like to ask what if somebody would have hit her from behind and killed the unborn infant too. Still she will be accused of negligence. COMMON it’s disgusting.
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Everybody wishes they could go to heaven but no one wants to die.
But is it Sharia law? The article says "Federal Penal Code". Is that the same?
And is there any difference between driving with a 9 month old foetus and driving with a new born baby on your lap?
Uncivilized archaic mentality mixed with power and wealth, is a weapon against humanity:
Sharia law and UAE at their best!
Since when a foetus is considered a living human being only in his third trimester or just before delivery ????
As far as I know, the debate is whether he/she is considered "living" since its transformation from embryo to foetus at the end of the first trimester or since its conception.
So, in all cases, a 2nd trimester foetus is as living as a third trimester one, and thus, if we follow Dubai officials' logic, women should not drive (or run or even fry French fries) once they get pregnant (or, once the first trimester is over depending on the earlier debate)...
What about driving to go to work? We live in countries that only give 50 days pregnancy leave (and most of the companies have policies not allowing you to take more than 10 days before delivery)?
or driving for a meeting during working hours??
this basically means that pregnant women should resign, hire a driver, a maid (to fry French fries and fish and clean slippery soapy bathrooms), and another “nanny” to carry her older kids and just pray nothing else would lead to her being convicted of hurting her unborn.
Silly....
They're saying it was her fault that the foetus died - i.e. she put the foetus at risk by driving at that stage of her pregnancy.
Regarding law, it says "Federal Penal Code" in the article. Is that anything to do with Sharia, or did everyone above just jump to conclusions?
well said MD!
on the bbc it says that she got hit from behind...........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8032780.stm
since when is it your fault if you get hit from behind?
poor woman, i cannot think of anything worse than losing your child.
Dubai never ceases to amaze me. I hated living there (for 10 years) and I would never return. It amazes me that people cannot see past the glitz and glamour and see all the crap that is hidden beneath.
mohannad has a point - does this have anything to do with Sharia law?
I can see brit's point about the premise being a good one. I
f a mother was driving with her new born baby in her lap and it was killed in an accident caused by the mother, then we'd all say it was the mother's fault.
How is it any different just because the child hasn't been born yet? I guess we end up with a similar argument to the one about abortion being murder.
Stupidity is the human kind's greatest asset!
women be punished if they have an accident? If the husband had been driving and the fetus was killed, do you thinkg HE would be punished like this...no way!!!
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
I've never heard of anything like this before..except where someone shoots a pregnant woman and the fetus dies...
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the main difference between a dog and man.
-Mark Twain-
its not islam rules, its UAE Civilian rules
Judges have tried to implement similar in the West and India.
I think the premise is a good one and should act as a warning / deterrent for women , late in their pregnancies to be more careful. It also sends a clear message to those who cause accidents.
HOWEVER, the law needs to be clearly defined and applied. In this case I am surprised that the fine has been susp[ended, yet the blood money is due..
Poor woman..she lost her baby... do she needs anyother punishment????????
I dont think you can blame this on sharia law, I would blame it on a stupid judge (sucessors?)
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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Thank you!!
sharia = confusion
Stupid people. How cruel are they? Totally disgusting.
SalahBu was on weed! ;)
i think the car she bumped was driven by a VIP, that's why she got all the blame , and is treated like a criminal and not a victim...
Little Artist
i think the lot of you said it all... crap crap crap crap and another crap! poor woman... :/
The mother of the foetus is already going through a lot of loosing her unborn child. and why is this even called KILLING. Why would she carry the foetus for 9 months? if she intended to kill it ? and in a car accident it is highly possible to kill herself with her baby, but just because she got to live, now she has to pay blood money? Where are the SANE PEOPLE??
crap...pure and utter crap!
Agree with previous comments re successor...WTF!
BS to women banned from driving if they are about to give birth. Mother nature holds her own clock so who is to say when someone is 'about to deliver'. Some babies come weeks early or weeks overdue!
Again.....crap!
smile lots laugh more
my thoughts go for this poor woman... Guilt feeling is exactly what she needs to overcome this stragedy :(
what can i say to the succesors?... tsk! tsk! tsk!
lol oops, bad connection probs tonight
i find sugar expensive than that
200,000 gazillion dollars
200,000 gazillion dollars
200,000 gazillion dollars
WHAT penny or cents?
But don't get any ideas because in my case it would be waaaaay more than 200,000 :-P
Blood money?
Well if i kill you here right now the i will have to pay blood money to your family.
Or if you kill alexa or notfromhere then you will have to pay blood money to their families.
THATS BY LAW.
:P
paid to the fetus's successors??
What a shity brain these guys have!!!!! Poor lady , she lost the kid and being tortured on that by law. wow
Big time @$$ holes
______________________________________________
- Listen to Many...Speak to a Few -
What century are we in?
Poor, poor woman who has to mourn the death of her unborn child and NOW be burdened with this type of barbaric ruling. Where's the justice? Where's the common sense?
what happen to the world now? OMG!
sorry, I often get lost, but what is "blood money" :S
And I feel sorry for her. And of course, If she was driving recklessly EVEN pregnant, I'm sure she will never EVER again be reckless at driving (I hope so..). The poor woman.
the region/Arabs/Muslims/all decent and rational-thinking people.
Women in their third trimester should not drive unless it's an emergency? Is he serious?
Does he presume that all pregnant women have drivers at their beck and call?
Perhaps the UAE government should subsidize/sponsor such a service for all pregnant women if they think driving is such a danger...
Yet another reason why I am glad not be from this part of the world...
"Most plain girls are virtuous because of the scarcity of opportunity to be otherwise."
-- Maya Angelou
they charged the woman with reckless driving and failing to keep a safe distance with the car ahead of her.
failing to keep a safe distance with the car ahead of her.
failing to keep a safe distance with the car ahead of her.
failing to keep a safe distance with the car ahead of her.
failing to keep a safe distance with the car ahead of her.
Power to the non believers, it’s a great feeling to have and hold.
OK, fine her with reckless driving for not leaving space but WTH is this about murdering her feotus?
This is just stupid IMHO, she has gone through enough with loosing the baby and now she was put through this court case which states she was careless and by driving she "killed" her baby.
Sharia law? Please.... they pick and choose as they please. She should never have been convicted of this. Would her husband have been convicted of murdering the feotus if he was driving and got in an accident with her in the car?
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
huh? zoobi, i am quite sure that i haven't heard of any case like this in any part of the world. come to think of it, there are lots of cases in this region that defies common sense/sanity.
kadaut...
Blood money for successors?wasn't enough for this woman she lost her baby before it was born??!!When pregnant woman loses baby she carried for 9 months this is trauma to her!!And the money will not bring the life back to the poor baby:(This is all so sad:(
As if carrying her unborn baby for 9 months and then losing her child at the last moment was not punishment enough. I'm curious, did men make these laws?
"The blood money is to be paid to the foetus's successors" ?????
I doubt, now that she's dead, she will have any successors.
WTF. The poor woman.