Long ago, the world wasn't a bad place!

I think things will be safer for my child then they were for me.

Think about it. When I was 5 I had to learn to hide under my desk at school in case Russia decided to unleash nuclear weapons. My son will not have to worry about this. While there is the "war on terrorism" it's no where near as scarey to a 5 year old as an atom bomb is.

Halloween: Will be the exact same as it was for me. I was never allowed to go trick or treating on my own till I was 10 or 11, and then it had to be in a group of kids. The rules will be the same for my son, regardless of where we are...(unless for some reason we move to Inner city LA or something weird like that).

Playground: Remember playgrounds when you were a kid? Rusted metal slides with concrete blocks at the bottom, rusty swings and barely held together merry go rounds. Everything now is plastic with no jagged edges and sand instead of a concrete block.

Stranger Danger: From the get go, they actually HAVE something called Stranger Danger, and ways to teach and talk to your kids about strangers. I was just told not to accept candy from strangers and never get in someone's car. Now they have Amber Alerts and everyone is more wary of potential harm to children. Automatically that makes the world safer for my child.

The fact of the matter is: Crime rates are down worldwide, Child abductions are down world wide, teen pregnancy and STD rates are down world wide.

Unless you live in a war zone (the number of which are also down worldwide), the world is a pretty safe place to be.

You are today where your thoughts have brought you; you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you- James Lane Allen

A few things off of the top of my head.

1) The increase in technological innovation means we have access to more data ie more bad stories even if the overall amount of 'events' are falling, thus giving the illusion that violence is on the increase.

This is the 'fault' of the media but in an unconscious sense.

2) As children we were less aware of 'problems' around us; this is true for children today, and one day they will look back at a seemingly benign early 21st century.

3)Much more insidious, in what can only be said to be my personal opinion, is the conscious racking up of fear by some sections of the media for political and social reasons.

The differences in progressive and conservative mindsets are played out in politics, economics and social attitudes. As one gets older it is more difficult to be come accustomed to change - most change is for the better, though where it is not surely evidence based reasoning should point to where corrections need to be made.

Conservatives(small c) think all progress is detrimental, for reasons I pointed out above, and want the world to stop and stay the same. I read a scientific study recently that tested levels of disgust, and conservatives had a much lower level of disgust tolerance. They are also the section of the population that are most fearful about aspects of life. Papers like the Daily Mail play on this fear as a way to control the political and social agenda - they actually deliberately wrench up the fear in the population as a matter of editorial policy.

Conservatives also crave order; in the sense that someone, be it a supernatural governor of all life etc or an ultimate all wise authority leading their society is in charge; that there is stability, change frightens them as it breaks through the notion of an accepted order...the fact is that reality is actually in constant flux, no one is in charge.....therefore they cling to what they know from their past....it's always better no matter what the evidence suggests. To be fair the majority of humans subscribe to this notion completely unaware of it, not just conservatives. This trait of humanity can be easily harnessed by other to control politics and society and some media deliberately use this as a tactic

Just a vague snapshot of my thoughts - I could go on but really I have better things to do :P

That Is Called the Generation GAP

shake spear Said ::: The World Suffers A Lot Not Because Of The Violence Of Bad People But Of The Silence Of Good People

"I don't think the society is much safer now."

And your evidence for such a claim is?

What do categorise this 'dirty world' to be? It seems such an amorphous term; you compound this with words such as 'evil' and 'bad' - I think you should be more specific so we can get a handle on what it is you are actually talking about and worried about.

On a positive note, I'm sure your kids will be just fine.

:)

"How did we get onto porn ?"

I was wondering about the same.

I don't think the society is much safer now. This is because children are more exposed to the so called "dirty world". In my view point, there are two kinds of world - the good one and the bad one. Children are easily prone to be the victims of the bad world. Similarly, there are two kinds of messages delivered across internet and mass media- the good and the evil messages. Young minds grasp evil messages faster than the messages that could be educative/good for them.

What ever be the case, we don't know the real fact- whether our generation was better than the previous generation or not.

Having read the Guardian article - I must say that I am a little surprised. So, as parents , are our fears irrational. It would seem so.

Does this mean that the media is to blame ?

i'm asking whether you have solid evidence or not?

brit, I'd say it is pretty much the same...but way back we did not know as much about what was happening due to the lack of media as it is today.

Yes but your beliefs are not supported by the evidence - be it violence or sex abuse.

Every generation holds that veiwpoint....but it's simply wrong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/mar/04/childprotection-bulger

Thanks.. Looks like interesting reading .. I'll have to delve into it ..

From the man himself:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576583203589408180.html

How did we get onto porn ?

Perhaps we should just go with our own experiences and make a judgemental call. Do you feel that children lose their innocence earlier. Is society as a whole safer for children than it was say a generation ago ?

My own personal belief is that the society I grew up in was much safer for children a generation ago.

Of course you may have a different experience.

Adey, Stephen Pinker's concept of "More Peace Now" is certainly a consolation, and yes that dimension of lesser violence is true,....The world is moving from to an overcrowded, dirtier, less innocent, more tolerant, safer, more convenient, ever faster, place where an average person can expect to live longer than ever before,….Balances more or less…

His is a major academic study - your view is a vague rose tinted glasses look back at the 'good old days'.

I would respectfully suggest that his expertise heavily outweighs yours. Anecdotal evidence is just that- anecdotal.

:)

PA, I never blindly believe.

It's in the compulsory Drama curriculum for under 8's, didn't you know?! I always got the role of plummer with 70's moustace and german accent.

Hell, in my day the bright kids had graduated to directing their own porn movies by the time they were 11!

School productions were a hoot!

You can't blindly believe in what others say. indeed, you must do some research.

adey, my husband was asked by a former colleague, an educated man, how we deal with porn being shown to our kids in school,....he was told by an imam that this was happening in Western schools all the time, in fact, it is in the curriculum......I kid you not!

This is the view point of Stephen Pinker. Not all view points are correct.

it depends from where you come from.There are plenty of rural areas in Sri Lanka today, for example where an average kid will not have free access to the internet. X rated movies and porno mags have existed for decades now and as a five year old though I didn't even know what a computer was I knew what "dirty scenes" in movies were cos certain cousins and relatives forgot to press the pause button fast enough!

My daughter on the other hand doesn't have free access to the internet and is supervised by myself or my husband all the time.So again its cos the place she is in doesn't allow her that kind of knowledge.

And years ago where we were from my mom would never let us go out alone without a grown up accompanying us but I see here in Qatar many kids freely going out to the shops alone. Why? Because of course Qatar today is safer still than Kolpitty, my hometown, was even two decades ago!

Do you work hard at being idiotic or does it come naturally?

I want to know what is going through your mind when you think teacheres are showing porn movies to kids?

Ever heard of projection?

ismailerum, but don't they show porn in all Western schools????

adey, spot on!

Formula 1, we did not know about those things because they did not exist then...we did know how to operate a tv, a video recorder..out grand parents did not when they were children..etc, etc..

So, where they more innocent or better off than we were because of that?

Yes, they do. At least in the schools my child went to.

Or better said, yes, you are right, they do not have internet connections for 6 year olds...but they have classes with computers that are connected to the internet...and those kids are taught lessons on those dumb , connected machines.

Feeling gloomy because the world seems to be going from bad to worse? Well, here’s the antidote; Stephen Pinker’s majestic and very readable The Better Angels of Our Nature: The Decline of Violence in History and Its Causes. Believe it or not - and if you don’t, I’m afraid you can’t be someone who Asks for the Evidence – mankind is making progress. Over the centuries society in most of the world has become less violent, more compassionate and more tolerant. And if you are squeamish, you can skip the bits where he records the horrible things we used to do to each other that mostly we have given up

This riveting, myth-destroying book reveals how, contrary to popular belief, humankind has become progressively less violent, over millenia and decades. Can violence really have declined? The images of conflict we see daily on our screens from around the world suggest this is an almost obscene claim to be making. Extraordinarily, however, Steven Pinker shows violence within and between societies - both murder and warfare - really has declined from prehistory to today. We are much less likely to die at someone else's hands than ever before. Even the horrific carnage of the last century, when compared to the dangers of pre-state societies, is part of this trend.

Debunking both the idea of the 'noble savage' and an over-simplistic Hobbesian notion of a 'nasty, brutish and short' life, Steven Pinker argues that modernity and its cultural institutions are actually making us better people. He ranges over everything from art to religion, international trade to individual table manners, and shows how life has changed across the centuries and around the world - not simply through the huge benefits of organized government, but also because of the extraordinary power of progressive ideas. Why has this come about? And what does it tell us about ourselves? It takes one of the world's greatest psychologists to have the ambition and the breadth of understanding to appreciate and explain this story, to show us our very natures.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1846140935/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwsenseabout-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=1846140935

Nomerci &Fathmah,To learn about anything good or bad a kid does not need toget very creative these days or have a hypothetical molester ,what percentage of kids would have them any way,... in today’s world an average kid can slip in to watching pron videos on youtube, starting innocently watching Barbie videos, we can count ourselves lucky to have Qtel , but the world over this is not the case, anybody who knows to operate a wending machine can buy condoms, words and things definitely unnecessary for childhood, all this information available has it’s pros and cons but for sure the innocence of an average 70s or 80s kid is does not exist today:-(

Nomerci &Fathmah,To learn about anything good or bad a kid does not need toget very creative these days or have a hypothetical molester ,what percentage of kids would have them any way,... in today’s world an average kid can slip in to watching pron videos on youtube, starting innocently watching Barbie videos, we can count ourselves lucky to have Qtel , but the world over this is not the case, anybody who knows to operate a wending machine can buy condoms, words and things definitely unnecessary for childhood, all this information available has it’s pros and cons but for sure the innocence of an average 70s or 80s kid is does not exist today:-(

Time has really really changed...Nowadays children are more exposed to television,computer games,video games,movies etc...My 2 yr kid knows to put the mouse wire in its correct socket,how to charge the mobile and all the other things which we didn't know until we were adults...So I guess its all about exposure...But on same hand human emotions are still the same love,hatred,jealousy etc..

ismailerum, those dumb machines are now used in schools at the age of about 6.......

Its certainly where you are that makes a difference be it twenty years ago or now. There may still be kids, living in some remote village, who may have no access to the internet just as many years back, even without owning a computer a child learned the word "sex" cos some drunken/perverted relative or worse still parent decided to teach them what it means..graphically(not in a positive/ educational way)!

He was able to find dad's or big brothers porn mags...as simple as that.

It was always there...

But, let us not forget, if parents are as neglectful as not to install programs on the computer that will prevent this 8 year old from going there, or if they are not watchful of what he is doing on the computer, well, what can I say?

Oh, and I did know about the word then, but was not particularly interested...as I would think most decently brought up children at that are wouldn't be.

Nomerci, what about the 8 yearold who can surf about sex on google?I never knew about the word at 8 ...blissful innocence:-(

Brit, I say, that depends on where you live, today as it did then.

But the hills that we climbed were just seasons out of time.

I will beg to differ..

Children are not allowed to go alone for "trick or treat". Parents are more protective and perhaps rightly so.

No PA, I am not saying that.

Children learn things from experience, it is up to the parents what they experience to a great degree.

I also believe that there were many children in the "old days" who "lost" their innocence early.

Times really do not change that much generally, what we feel and experience is generally the same, only the circumstances may be different.

Reminds me of a quote by an unknown author "i wish i was a kid again skinned knees are easier to fix than broken hearts"

parents never leave their children out of sight because the world has degraded in its ethical qualities.

Yes ismailerum, it can be before 5 also.

nomerci, are you saying that its our innocence that get slayed?

Brit, my child is living pretty much the same way I did when I was a child.

He is doing all the things you mentioned. But I do live on a safe compound now, which I did not when I was a child.

But I also know that my husband, who grew up as an inner city child, could not do all those things.

So again, things are pretty much the same..depends on how you look at them.

We had joy , we had fun, we had seasons in the sun....

Good times :O)

Sorry I thought I was still in the music thread and was singing along with Brit.

Learned of love and ABC's

We are talking about children here..

We used to play out till all hours without worry. We went out alone on bonfire nights, climbed trees and grazed our knees.

Now parents hardly let children out of their sights.. :o(

"But the one thing that's constant is change."

Interesting!

PA, yes, in general the world is still the same..

Wars are fought, people are prejudiced,hate is all around us,people steal, murder, lie and cheat.

There is peace(in some places), people are fair (some are),people are honest (many are), there is love (you'll find it if you look for it),etc.

Has it not always been like that?

The only difference is that now we know much more about each other due to technology.But that has not changed people or the world in general.

The world hasn't really changed in essence..but yes people change, goals change, our expectations,wants and desires change. The more we learn the more we develop and either we can become better people or worse. But the one thing that's constant is change. And rather than fighting it all we should learn to accept and embrace many of life's changes even though it may not always be in our favor.

Perhaps its the effect of been from a war torn country and a tumultuous household, but even at five I was aware that whilst some people were very kind,dependable,good and even wonderful there were also those who were evil, moody and untrustworthy. Today I still feel the same somewhat only difference being that I also accept I myself possess a not so good side to my personality and certainly don't lack faults.

Times have changed. Gone are the days of innocence for young children.. :o(

That's what you get for watching the Sooty show.

yeah, we are still living in the stone age because the world has always been the same. :P

The world has always been the same. Nothing has changed.