brother plato, welcome back.
insha allah i will touch all of your comments in the last two posts, but let me point out the untouched comments of mine :)
And how about the rules of man? Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules? Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
If God is so Sublime, Why would he create a machine and not give us the manual? I.e. why create us..our bodies.. or minds...and not give us some sort of guidance?
You tell me, why did God allow the tsunami to kill so many people? Islaam gives us explanation for these calamities. How can God not interfere? Tell me, why does your heart beat? Do you tell it to? Who do you think controls that? Who do you think removes and add your soul into your body?!
why is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealations???
i have answered your claim about contradictions, have u read?
"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than GOD, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy." (chapter 4, verse 82)
So point out ONE,(Only one) contradiction in the Quruan..
GOD challenged the mankind in His revelation
"Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah.- If ye speak the truth!" (chapter 11, verse 13)
Again GOD makes the challenge 'simpler'
"Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"(chapter 10, verse 38)
The shortest Sura(chapter) in the Quruan is sura 103, contains only 3 verses.
1 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
2 Verily Man is in loss,
3 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
So this is a challenge to you and all the people who denied GOD revelation ( Quruan)
But if you mean that contradictions are in Torah and Gospel (collectively known as Bible), ok I agree that. But when GOD revealed this books to the Moses and Jesus (peace be upon both of them),there is no contradictions in that books.
After,this Messengers passed away the people changed this books according to their wishes.
“Exactly, Nature is all that surround us, some of us, Deists, belive that Nature is God, i belive that nature is at least part of God.”
What do you mean Nature is all around us? What do YOU believe nature is, who created it and its purpose. And Why is the All Powerful God in need of something like nature? And Where is God?
“Of course i have, that's why i become a medium, only stopped because at a certain time the messages were coming directly to my mind even before the glass would finish the sentence.”
When you say medium…you mean….you communicate with the dead? Or you connect the dead with the living? Explain yourself, it seems like this is treading on to the Sci-Fi channel!
“Where did i say that i don't belive his laws? As a Deist, i belive that everything obey's to God's laws and that's why i don't belive in Satan or evil or hell."
You denied the revelations as you do not accept the Laws sanctioned in them.
You don’t believe in Evil? So hitler is what? A good guy!
As for everything obey’s God law. That’s rubbish. So people who don’t believe in God, obey God’s law?
“Let me make you a proposal, i use the reasoning and you use your faith to fly it ;)
Mankind isn't a plane. Mankind has already shown that they can leurn just observing nature, and using the example you gave concerning piloting a plane, where is it written in any of the revelation books how to fly a plane? Weren't the Wright brothers the 1st to pilot a plane?"
I wouldn’t use ‘faith’ to fly the plane. I believe God has given me the ability to learn and thus eventually fly. However, even then, I put my trust in Him as I only have so much control over the plane!
Your question regarding the wright brs is very odd. It seems like you are looking for arguments without thinking first.
Ok, God does inform us that HE was the one who granted us knowledge and taught us how to read, write, etc Do you think the wright brs used reasoning to build the plane? If so, can you do the same? Ofcourse not! You yourself said you lack knowledge of physics! So my point is that God inspired them and showed them how to build the plane.
Infact, MANY inventions were accidents!
Lets see you utilize your reasoning now, we have flys that simply take of vertically, but our planes don’t, can you used your observance of nature to see why?
Why do we teach children how to cross the road? Shouldnt they know by reasoning that you should see if a car is passing before running onto the road?
“You are confused, probably due to the huge size of the replies, it's easyer to belive in 1 God that set all the laws of nature than in a God that contradicts himself, that says that he's perfect but shows demandings of a dictator? Please don't be offended with this words of mine, not attacking faith just stating my point.”
Demandings of a dictator? When God says to feed the poor, help the need and be good to your wives, He is being a dictator?
Just as you teach your son NOT to play with fire , or he will get burnt; God teaches us (His creation!) to be good humans and how to do so, or we will cause destruction to ourself. This is becoming evident. We have Gay marriages now, transsexuals roaming around and even legalized prostitution and Incest in some countries! All in the name of ‘consenting adults!’
Crime rates are soaring, the rich get richer, etc. This is what human reasoning leads to. When GOD's LAWS ruled, the world was at peace.
And please don’t say crusaders were Christians as their true intentions have been exposed. They used their greedy reasoning to try make a path for trade of spices from the east, but didn’t want to go through the arab world/traders.
“Already replied this question when i spoke about the spirit evolution until it becomes an angel and helps God with all his matters.I don't make hard questions because could be considered an attack to someone's faith.”
Hard questions, you mean offensive questions. Please ask what you wish.
You never prooved that the Angels or even Souls exists. Show me you’re your reasoning came up with that!
“I don't doubt that things maybe manipulated or organized by God, i want people to point me out in their Holly books where does God teach man to light fires, to build engines, to make reference to other planets, etc...”
If you want scientific miracles, then refer to the Qur’aan. The Qur’aan is not a book of science but of guidance.
It’s easy for God to put ALL inventions into book, but you know how many books that would take?
Priests? Well, as i stated previouslly, i'm converting to Islam but not because of reasoning but because of love, and according to the Sheik, beliving in God is already a huge step to be muslim and after reading some parts of the Qur'an i found out that God wants you to racionalize and not following a book blindly.”
The Qur’aan is a book of guidance. God has given it to men of REAL reasoning to follow. He never forced us to follow it or said we should follow it blindly. However, if we do not understand something, we may still follow it because our tiny minds cannot comprehend the wisdom and knowledge of God and why He revealed what He revealed. The below 5 verses are my humble wedding gift for you and your bride, barakallahu feekum!.
“…But those who disbelieve invent lies against GOD, and most of them have no understanding.” (Al-Ma'idah 5:103)
“Indeed in their stories, there is a lesson for men of understanding. It (the Qur'an) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of the GOD's existing Books and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a Mercy for the people who believe.” (Yusuf 12:111)
“Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you (O Muhammad SAW) from your Lord is the truth be like him who is blind? But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed.” (Ra'd 13:19)
“Is it not a guidance for them (to know) how many generations We have destroyed before them, in whose dwellings they walk? Verily, in this are signs indeed for men of understanding.” (Ta-Ha 20:128)
“(This is) a Book (the Qur'ân) which We have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may ponder over its Verses, and that men of understanding may remember.” (Sad 38:29)
“Well, it's not only the Qur'an, the Bible and the Torah have references to science too, not sure if more or less than the Qur'an, still have to fully read it to see how many references it makes to science.”
Yes, but many of the Biblical ones are wrong. Do you not know of Galileo and how the Christians locked him up???
“As a spiritist, how could i not belive in a soul if during the mediunic session i used to talk to souls/spirits. Regarding Jesus, his spirit/soul is alive but his body...is ashes by now.”
How do you know those were souls your were speaking to? So you use those séance boards?
Amazing, for someone who uses reasoning, you have been fooled by some small trickery. And you mocked Moses!
You need to prove using your reasoning that spirits and angels exist.
I can explain any supernatural phenomena you experience with your ‘magic board’
You were fooled by what is called a Jinn. And yes, they have knowledge of what people do and thus it can pretend to be someone.
Jinn have also been mentioned in the Qur’aan and other scriptures.
As for your séance. Let me explain what happens: Everyone is accompanied with a jinn and angel. The jinn is the one that tells you (by whisperings) to do bad stuff. Anyway, when you die, your jinn doesn’t necessarily die too. He then goes to these fortunetellers and ‘mediums’. So when you think you are speaking to someone deceased, you are actually talking to his jinn, who is pretending to be him.
“"Yes He could but he didn't ;)”
But why? If God was just, why not make everyone the same colour? What could he benefit from making different colours?
That site about spirit you given didn’t work.
How do you know God exists? How do you know All this isn’t an experiment by some Aliens? – as some people actually believe!!
4. You believe in Death, but don’t really know what happens after. To say souls turns into angels is as logical as a hindu saying souls are reincarnated!
5. You believe that pain and suffering has a purpose. Even though this is a concept only found in Religion. Most people, who use reasoning, never comprehend pain and suffering and often lose their religion.
Wake up! Your belief is made of bits and pieces of other dogmas! You deny revelation, yet you believe is souls? Why because you spoke to one? What if I say I believe in revelation because I read some of this revelation? That argument is weak.
How you managed to believe God created us all and then left us to roam around like animals is strange. You dont wonder some people are rich and some are poor? Why some people are tall and some are short? some are born with deformaties and some are not? How we have so much evil and hate? How we can have murderes and rappists? What are we here? What is our destination? Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination?
plz give agood reply to brother nice too nice!
we belive in Qur'an as revealation of GOD, its scientific accuracies, prophesises and perfection in linguistics, and preserved, protected right now from human hand attacks proves its divinity. Its the fastest growing faith and most of its reverts are scientists, professors, highly qaulified students and women.
so they might found good human reasoning for embracing this noble faith. That's why i answered your Questians with this glorious book. but u have to answer him!
as per you, Angels are God helpers and your God is nature, then what is Angels? Can you differentiate Your Nature God and your angels? So, as per your above post, all souls will be turned to angels- that means to forces of nature.......wow..interesting.
who wrote the non revelation book? how I know it is from spirit? what is the evidence for that????
what is the logic in something you find in man made websites and books, yet u denied revealations!
so if your reasoning fails, u support your comments with plato and other philosophers books?
may they have mistakes?
or did they claim as divine?
brother, you have no right to convince us with human written books only because that u denied the revealation books which billions of people beleiving in.
if you accept our books are good reference, then we can accept the logic bibliography in your answers
according to you, the good people become angels and the bad people…..they don’t become angels?
Really? Is this your theory?
First of all, can you prove to me angels exist. I have never seen an angel, spoken to one or even touched one.
but we belive in angels only because our revealtion holy book said so, we belive this book is from GOD,simply this reasoning enough for us.
There is no scientific proof that they exist or any human reasoning why they ever would need to exist, so how did you even consider that they exist.
Is this perhaps something you watched on tv?...
So tell me, it seems like you believe in re-incarnation?!
How do you know the soul exists? It makes no sense that it does nor can we prove it scientifically or with reasoning.
Second, everything happens for a reason? Really? And how did you come up with that? How could you possibly have reasoned that out? So you would sit next to your son’s death bed and tell him ‘everything happens for a reason?’
Closer to God? Tell me, What does your God look like? Where is He? Who is He? And Why would He create things then kill them?! if u use any man made books to answer this Qs clearly proves that u r not following your brain reasoning. Belive in the book of a perfect being GOD and not belive in the words of imperfect being like philosophers because sure they might have mistakes!
“Regarding situation in Africa, my body doesn't accept such situation, but my soul says that those souls suffering all that will be 1 step closer to God if they manage to pass the test. Justice in animals: I may sound cruel with what i'm about to say but that's how an impartial being would see the things, 1 ant's life is as important as a human's or a plant's life, to God, all life is important, for him to kill thousands of ants or thousands of humans has the same value, he wont punish none because it's each being "nature".”
Test? Wow? Where did you get that from? So to you, seeing someone suffering is a test? This is your human reasoning? Test for……
Again with this ‘nature’? Who is this ‘nature’?
"As i stated previouslly, Nature is our teacher, remember that Man leurned to use fire without any other teacher beside the physic laws of Nature, can't be too specific because i don't know much about physics."
Again, you haven’t proved that ‘nature’ exists or even what it is.
Do you actually believe in things like cavemen? I hope you know that Evolution is baseless and any paints they made of so called cavemen were fictional. Perhaps they thought their older generations looked like apes, but we believe we were always humans, as science tells us.
And as for fire, its very likely God taught adam how to make fire. It’s very easy and doesn’t take a genius.
“Regarding Moses, don't you feal that a God that can't release His own people by himself but that imposes to that People to obey his laws sounds fake? Once again these kind of contradictions are the ones that make us racionalize and say that the people who wrote the "revelation" books have misunderstood some messages from God's messengers.”
No, I don’t feel this because its nonsense.
Because you have no knowledge of what happened, you have jumped to foolish assumptions.
God sent MANY messengers to Jews and told them to be firm in their belief. But they disobeyed him and He let them get punished. THEN they begged him for help and they ALWAYS asked for Messengers as they wanted leaders! (refer to the story of David and Goliath!)
Even with moses, they jews actually built and started worshipping a golden calf!! And even with all the common sense, they still were stupid enough to do that! Even when God saved them, they turned their worship to created things.
God has always imposed His laws on us. Is gravity not one of His laws?! and is it not His right to do so? Are we here to say what God can and cannot do?
“Exactly, you are reasoning now, remember that you said that "Prophet Jesus, Jews at that time had great knowledge in Medicine. They cured broken bones and the people were amazed by this. Thus, jesus's miracles revolved around healing, eg healing the blind, the leaper, etc.", how many medics have ressurected the death? Lazarus was a friend of Jesus of Nazareth”
Again, Lazarus’s resurrection is in the bible and we don’t necessarily believe it. Our scholars have said that infact the jews tested Jesus and said we aren’t impressed with anyone who died now and you resurrected him. They wanted someone who died some time back and then Jesus resurrected one of the son’s of Noah!!
Regardless, it’s not WHO jesus resurrects, but the fact he did so, by God’s will. It was just to prove he was not an imposter and was a real messenger.
“We could say that Nature is God. What some people think doesn't mean they were correct all the time, just like people always remember about the holly books being so old and needing to be updated, the same has happened with Human knowledge, somethings that were true some years ago are now lies after new discoveries by science.”
The Qur’aan doesn’t need updating, its countless consistant miracles justifies it and countless testimonials including it is perfectly preserved without attacking human hands and gaurded its authenticty and divinity. I have no authority to claim updation for another revealation books like bible. Because it edited and updated in nicea council already and have so many versions right now, so we can find so many scientific errors in it. You ‘could’ say nature is God? Is it because you don’t actually know?
“Remember that only in the 20th century that kind of mentalitty started to change, but previouslly it were the religious scolars that had those positions, remember that arabs were already slaving people from black africa even before europeans arrive to Africa and they had the same idea that black people were inferior to them, finnally that mentality is almost over and people today don't see them as a different race, after all we are all humans.”
Arabs would take ALL kinds of slaves. Slaves from black races, white races, etc. At the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) there were such slaves and they were freed eventually! Infact, one of these slaves, Salman, was a Persian! Who had a massive empire at that time. Anyway, there is no connection between Arabs and Muslims. Islaam is universal and the laws of Islaam were set in place in such a way to destroy slavery. First by giving them rights and respect, then freeing them in ways that involved doing good deeds. This had such an impact that many slaves eventually became scholars and some, even when freed, stayed with their Muslim masters (although not as slaves).
Islaam has a strict policy against racism. God is very clear about this in the Qur’aan and this was revealed BEFORE Darwin and co. Have you not seen the Muslims standing in line in prayer? or the Pilgrimage? This is when Malcom X really saw brotherhood!
“So, shouldn't i feal offended when you call such monster a Deist? Are the Zionists deists or jews? Bush is christan, not a deist.”
Why would you feel offended? Ok, perhaps I will explain in more detail: Bush believed (using his tiny reasoning) that it was right to invade Iraq. Everyone said no! and there is no scriptural backing for his actions or any religious. Thus he acted on his small intellect and now regrets it.
Even if they are not diest by name, their methodolygy (of using the human ‘reasoning’) is there and hence I used it as an example.
It seems like this conversation will never end. It’s not logical for someone to believe in things like angels, souls, nature, etc.
brother plato, welcome back.
insha allah i will touch all of your comments in the last two posts, but let me point out the untouched comments of mine :)
And how about the rules of man? Can man actually be allowed to rule with their man made rules? Is it hard for you to comprehend that God has a plan?
Would you send your children to school without telling them what needs to be done? Why not allow their ‘reasoning’ to figure out that they are at school to obey the teachers and study?!
If God is so Sublime, Why would he create a machine and not give us the manual? I.e. why create us..our bodies.. or minds...and not give us some sort of guidance?
You tell me, why did God allow the tsunami to kill so many people? Islaam gives us explanation for these calamities. How can God not interfere? Tell me, why does your heart beat? Do you tell it to? Who do you think controls that? Who do you think removes and add your soul into your body?!
why is it hard to belive your TRUE GOD WHO IS ONE AND ONLY, can send messengers and revealations???
i have answered your claim about contradictions, have u read?
"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than GOD, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy." (chapter 4, verse 82)
So point out ONE,(Only one) contradiction in the Quruan..
GOD challenged the mankind in His revelation
"Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah.- If ye speak the truth!" (chapter 11, verse 13)
Again GOD makes the challenge 'simpler'
"Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"(chapter 10, verse 38)
The shortest Sura(chapter) in the Quruan is sura 103, contains only 3 verses.
1 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
2 Verily Man is in loss,
3 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
So this is a challenge to you and all the people who denied GOD revelation ( Quruan)
But if you mean that contradictions are in Torah and Gospel (collectively known as Bible), ok I agree that. But when GOD revealed this books to the Moses and Jesus (peace be upon both of them),there is no contradictions in that books.
After,this Messengers passed away the people changed this books according to their wishes.
“Exactly, Nature is all that surround us, some of us, Deists, belive that Nature is God, i belive that nature is at least part of God.”
What do you mean Nature is all around us? What do YOU believe nature is, who created it and its purpose. And Why is the All Powerful God in need of something like nature? And Where is God?
“Of course i have, that's why i become a medium, only stopped because at a certain time the messages were coming directly to my mind even before the glass would finish the sentence.”
When you say medium…you mean….you communicate with the dead? Or you connect the dead with the living? Explain yourself, it seems like this is treading on to the Sci-Fi channel!
“Where did i say that i don't belive his laws? As a Deist, i belive that everything obey's to God's laws and that's why i don't belive in Satan or evil or hell."
You denied the revelations as you do not accept the Laws sanctioned in them.
You don’t believe in Evil? So hitler is what? A good guy!
As for everything obey’s God law. That’s rubbish. So people who don’t believe in God, obey God’s law?
“Let me make you a proposal, i use the reasoning and you use your faith to fly it ;)
Mankind isn't a plane. Mankind has already shown that they can leurn just observing nature, and using the example you gave concerning piloting a plane, where is it written in any of the revelation books how to fly a plane? Weren't the Wright brothers the 1st to pilot a plane?"
I wouldn’t use ‘faith’ to fly the plane. I believe God has given me the ability to learn and thus eventually fly. However, even then, I put my trust in Him as I only have so much control over the plane!
Your question regarding the wright brs is very odd. It seems like you are looking for arguments without thinking first.
Ok, God does inform us that HE was the one who granted us knowledge and taught us how to read, write, etc Do you think the wright brs used reasoning to build the plane? If so, can you do the same? Ofcourse not! You yourself said you lack knowledge of physics! So my point is that God inspired them and showed them how to build the plane.
Infact, MANY inventions were accidents!
Lets see you utilize your reasoning now, we have flys that simply take of vertically, but our planes don’t, can you used your observance of nature to see why?
Why do we teach children how to cross the road? Shouldnt they know by reasoning that you should see if a car is passing before running onto the road?
“You are confused, probably due to the huge size of the replies, it's easyer to belive in 1 God that set all the laws of nature than in a God that contradicts himself, that says that he's perfect but shows demandings of a dictator? Please don't be offended with this words of mine, not attacking faith just stating my point.”
Demandings of a dictator? When God says to feed the poor, help the need and be good to your wives, He is being a dictator?
Just as you teach your son NOT to play with fire , or he will get burnt; God teaches us (His creation!) to be good humans and how to do so, or we will cause destruction to ourself. This is becoming evident. We have Gay marriages now, transsexuals roaming around and even legalized prostitution and Incest in some countries! All in the name of ‘consenting adults!’
Crime rates are soaring, the rich get richer, etc. This is what human reasoning leads to. When GOD's LAWS ruled, the world was at peace.
And please don’t say crusaders were Christians as their true intentions have been exposed. They used their greedy reasoning to try make a path for trade of spices from the east, but didn’t want to go through the arab world/traders.
“Already replied this question when i spoke about the spirit evolution until it becomes an angel and helps God with all his matters.I don't make hard questions because could be considered an attack to someone's faith.”
Hard questions, you mean offensive questions. Please ask what you wish.
You never prooved that the Angels or even Souls exists. Show me you’re your reasoning came up with that!
“I don't doubt that things maybe manipulated or organized by God, i want people to point me out in their Holly books where does God teach man to light fires, to build engines, to make reference to other planets, etc...”
If you want scientific miracles, then refer to the Qur’aan. The Qur’aan is not a book of science but of guidance.
It’s easy for God to put ALL inventions into book, but you know how many books that would take?
Priests? Well, as i stated previouslly, i'm converting to Islam but not because of reasoning but because of love, and according to the Sheik, beliving in God is already a huge step to be muslim and after reading some parts of the Qur'an i found out that God wants you to racionalize and not following a book blindly.”
The Qur’aan is a book of guidance. God has given it to men of REAL reasoning to follow. He never forced us to follow it or said we should follow it blindly. However, if we do not understand something, we may still follow it because our tiny minds cannot comprehend the wisdom and knowledge of God and why He revealed what He revealed. The below 5 verses are my humble wedding gift for you and your bride, barakallahu feekum!.
“…But those who disbelieve invent lies against GOD, and most of them have no understanding.” (Al-Ma'idah 5:103)
“Indeed in their stories, there is a lesson for men of understanding. It (the Qur'an) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of the GOD's existing Books and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a Mercy for the people who believe.” (Yusuf 12:111)
“Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you (O Muhammad SAW) from your Lord is the truth be like him who is blind? But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed.” (Ra'd 13:19)
“Is it not a guidance for them (to know) how many generations We have destroyed before them, in whose dwellings they walk? Verily, in this are signs indeed for men of understanding.” (Ta-Ha 20:128)
“(This is) a Book (the Qur'ân) which We have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may ponder over its Verses, and that men of understanding may remember.” (Sad 38:29)
“Well, it's not only the Qur'an, the Bible and the Torah have references to science too, not sure if more or less than the Qur'an, still have to fully read it to see how many references it makes to science.”
Yes, but many of the Biblical ones are wrong. Do you not know of Galileo and how the Christians locked him up???
“As a spiritist, how could i not belive in a soul if during the mediunic session i used to talk to souls/spirits. Regarding Jesus, his spirit/soul is alive but his body...is ashes by now.”
How do you know those were souls your were speaking to? So you use those séance boards?
Amazing, for someone who uses reasoning, you have been fooled by some small trickery. And you mocked Moses!
You need to prove using your reasoning that spirits and angels exist.
I can explain any supernatural phenomena you experience with your ‘magic board’
You were fooled by what is called a Jinn. And yes, they have knowledge of what people do and thus it can pretend to be someone.
Jinn have also been mentioned in the Qur’aan and other scriptures.
As for your séance. Let me explain what happens: Everyone is accompanied with a jinn and angel. The jinn is the one that tells you (by whisperings) to do bad stuff. Anyway, when you die, your jinn doesn’t necessarily die too. He then goes to these fortunetellers and ‘mediums’. So when you think you are speaking to someone deceased, you are actually talking to his jinn, who is pretending to be him.
“"Yes He could but he didn't ;)”
But why? If God was just, why not make everyone the same colour? What could he benefit from making different colours?
That site about spirit you given didn’t work.
How do you know God exists? How do you know All this isn’t an experiment by some Aliens? – as some people actually believe!!
4. You believe in Death, but don’t really know what happens after. To say souls turns into angels is as logical as a hindu saying souls are reincarnated!
5. You believe that pain and suffering has a purpose. Even though this is a concept only found in Religion. Most people, who use reasoning, never comprehend pain and suffering and often lose their religion.
Wake up! Your belief is made of bits and pieces of other dogmas! You deny revelation, yet you believe is souls? Why because you spoke to one? What if I say I believe in revelation because I read some of this revelation? That argument is weak.
How you managed to believe God created us all and then left us to roam around like animals is strange. You dont wonder some people are rich and some are poor? Why some people are tall and some are short? some are born with deformaties and some are not? How we have so much evil and hate? How we can have murderes and rappists? What are we here? What is our destination? Why walk on a path on which you dont know the destination?
plz give agood reply to brother nice too nice!
we belive in Qur'an as revealation of GOD, its scientific accuracies, prophesises and perfection in linguistics, and preserved, protected right now from human hand attacks proves its divinity. Its the fastest growing faith and most of its reverts are scientists, professors, highly qaulified students and women.
so they might found good human reasoning for embracing this noble faith. That's why i answered your Questians with this glorious book. but u have to answer him!
as per you, Angels are God helpers and your God is nature, then what is Angels? Can you differentiate Your Nature God and your angels? So, as per your above post, all souls will be turned to angels- that means to forces of nature.......wow..interesting.
who wrote the non revelation book? how I know it is from spirit? what is the evidence for that????
what is the logic in something you find in man made websites and books, yet u denied revealations!
so if your reasoning fails, u support your comments with plato and other philosophers books?
may they have mistakes?
or did they claim as divine?
brother, you have no right to convince us with human written books only because that u denied the revealation books which billions of people beleiving in.
if you accept our books are good reference, then we can accept the logic bibliography in your answers
according to you, the good people become angels and the bad people…..they don’t become angels?
Really? Is this your theory?
First of all, can you prove to me angels exist. I have never seen an angel, spoken to one or even touched one.
but we belive in angels only because our revealtion holy book said so, we belive this book is from GOD,simply this reasoning enough for us.
There is no scientific proof that they exist or any human reasoning why they ever would need to exist, so how did you even consider that they exist.
Is this perhaps something you watched on tv?...
So tell me, it seems like you believe in re-incarnation?!
How do you know the soul exists? It makes no sense that it does nor can we prove it scientifically or with reasoning.
Second, everything happens for a reason? Really? And how did you come up with that? How could you possibly have reasoned that out? So you would sit next to your son’s death bed and tell him ‘everything happens for a reason?’
Closer to God? Tell me, What does your God look like? Where is He? Who is He? And Why would He create things then kill them?! if u use any man made books to answer this Qs clearly proves that u r not following your brain reasoning. Belive in the book of a perfect being GOD and not belive in the words of imperfect being like philosophers because sure they might have mistakes!
“Regarding situation in Africa, my body doesn't accept such situation, but my soul says that those souls suffering all that will be 1 step closer to God if they manage to pass the test. Justice in animals: I may sound cruel with what i'm about to say but that's how an impartial being would see the things, 1 ant's life is as important as a human's or a plant's life, to God, all life is important, for him to kill thousands of ants or thousands of humans has the same value, he wont punish none because it's each being "nature".”
Test? Wow? Where did you get that from? So to you, seeing someone suffering is a test? This is your human reasoning? Test for……
Again with this ‘nature’? Who is this ‘nature’?
"As i stated previouslly, Nature is our teacher, remember that Man leurned to use fire without any other teacher beside the physic laws of Nature, can't be too specific because i don't know much about physics."
Again, you haven’t proved that ‘nature’ exists or even what it is.
Do you actually believe in things like cavemen? I hope you know that Evolution is baseless and any paints they made of so called cavemen were fictional. Perhaps they thought their older generations looked like apes, but we believe we were always humans, as science tells us.
And as for fire, its very likely God taught adam how to make fire. It’s very easy and doesn’t take a genius.
“Regarding Moses, don't you feal that a God that can't release His own people by himself but that imposes to that People to obey his laws sounds fake? Once again these kind of contradictions are the ones that make us racionalize and say that the people who wrote the "revelation" books have misunderstood some messages from God's messengers.”
No, I don’t feel this because its nonsense.
Because you have no knowledge of what happened, you have jumped to foolish assumptions.
God sent MANY messengers to Jews and told them to be firm in their belief. But they disobeyed him and He let them get punished. THEN they begged him for help and they ALWAYS asked for Messengers as they wanted leaders! (refer to the story of David and Goliath!)
Even with moses, they jews actually built and started worshipping a golden calf!! And even with all the common sense, they still were stupid enough to do that! Even when God saved them, they turned their worship to created things.
God has always imposed His laws on us. Is gravity not one of His laws?! and is it not His right to do so? Are we here to say what God can and cannot do?
“Exactly, you are reasoning now, remember that you said that "Prophet Jesus, Jews at that time had great knowledge in Medicine. They cured broken bones and the people were amazed by this. Thus, jesus's miracles revolved around healing, eg healing the blind, the leaper, etc.", how many medics have ressurected the death? Lazarus was a friend of Jesus of Nazareth”
Again, Lazarus’s resurrection is in the bible and we don’t necessarily believe it. Our scholars have said that infact the jews tested Jesus and said we aren’t impressed with anyone who died now and you resurrected him. They wanted someone who died some time back and then Jesus resurrected one of the son’s of Noah!!
Regardless, it’s not WHO jesus resurrects, but the fact he did so, by God’s will. It was just to prove he was not an imposter and was a real messenger.
“We could say that Nature is God. What some people think doesn't mean they were correct all the time, just like people always remember about the holly books being so old and needing to be updated, the same has happened with Human knowledge, somethings that were true some years ago are now lies after new discoveries by science.”
The Qur’aan doesn’t need updating, its countless consistant miracles justifies it and countless testimonials including it is perfectly preserved without attacking human hands and gaurded its authenticty and divinity. I have no authority to claim updation for another revealation books like bible. Because it edited and updated in nicea council already and have so many versions right now, so we can find so many scientific errors in it. You ‘could’ say nature is God? Is it because you don’t actually know?
“Remember that only in the 20th century that kind of mentalitty started to change, but previouslly it were the religious scolars that had those positions, remember that arabs were already slaving people from black africa even before europeans arrive to Africa and they had the same idea that black people were inferior to them, finnally that mentality is almost over and people today don't see them as a different race, after all we are all humans.”
Arabs would take ALL kinds of slaves. Slaves from black races, white races, etc. At the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) there were such slaves and they were freed eventually! Infact, one of these slaves, Salman, was a Persian! Who had a massive empire at that time. Anyway, there is no connection between Arabs and Muslims. Islaam is universal and the laws of Islaam were set in place in such a way to destroy slavery. First by giving them rights and respect, then freeing them in ways that involved doing good deeds. This had such an impact that many slaves eventually became scholars and some, even when freed, stayed with their Muslim masters (although not as slaves).
Islaam has a strict policy against racism. God is very clear about this in the Qur’aan and this was revealed BEFORE Darwin and co. Have you not seen the Muslims standing in line in prayer? or the Pilgrimage? This is when Malcom X really saw brotherhood!
“So, shouldn't i feal offended when you call such monster a Deist? Are the Zionists deists or jews? Bush is christan, not a deist.”
Why would you feel offended? Ok, perhaps I will explain in more detail: Bush believed (using his tiny reasoning) that it was right to invade Iraq. Everyone said no! and there is no scriptural backing for his actions or any religious. Thus he acted on his small intellect and now regrets it.
Even if they are not diest by name, their methodolygy (of using the human ‘reasoning’) is there and hence I used it as an example.
It seems like this conversation will never end. It’s not logical for someone to believe in things like angels, souls, nature, etc.