assalam alaikum brother plato,
today, i will try my best to touch all points, if anything missed, i will cover it soon insha allah,
yes brother nice too nice, a little bit confusing.
brother plato let me start with your claim "contradictions" in revealtions, naudubillah!
"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy." (chapter 4, verse 82)
So point out ONE,(Only one) contradiction in the Quruan..
Allah challenged the mankind in His revelation
"Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah.- If ye speak the truth!" (chapter 11, verse 13)
Again Allah makes the challenge 'simpler'
"Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"(chapter 10, verse 38)
The shortest Sura(chapter) in the Quruan is sura 103, contains only 3 verses.
1 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
2 Verily Man is in loss,
3 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
So this is a challenge to you and all the people who denied Allah revelation ( Quruan)
But if you mean that contradictions are in Torah and Gospel (collectively known as Bible), ok I agree that. But when Allah revealed this books to the Moses and Jesus (peace be upon both of them),there is no contradictions in that books.
After,this Messengers passed away the people changed this books according to their wishes.
“Exactly, Nature is all that surround us, some of us, Deists, belive that Nature is God, i belive that nature is at least part of God.”
What do you mean Nature is all around us? What do YOU believe nature is, who created it and its purpose. And Why is the All Powerful God in need of something like nature? And Where is God?
“Of course i have, that's why i become a medium, only stopped because at a certain time the messages were coming directly to my mind even before the glass would finish the sentence.”
When you say medium…you mean….you communicate with the dead? Or you connect the dead with the living? Explain yourself, it seems like this is treading on to the Sci-Fi channel!
“Where did i say that i don't belive his laws? As a Deist, i belive that everything obey's to God's laws and that's why i don't belive in Satan or evil or hell."
You denied the revelations as you do not accept the Laws sanctioned in them.
You don’t believe in Evil? So hitler is what? A good guy!
As for everything obey’s God law. That’s rubbish. So people who don’t believe in God, obey God’s law?
“Let me make you a proposal, i use the reasoning and you use your faith to fly it ;)
Mankind isn't a plane. Mankind has already shown that they can leurn just observing nature, and using the example you gave concerning piloting a plane, where is it written in any of the revelation books how to fly a plane? Weren't the Wright brothers the 1st to pilot a plane?"
I wouldn’t use ‘faith’ to fly the plane. I believe God has given me the ability to learn and thus eventually fly. However, even then, I put my trust in Him as I only have so much control over the plane!
Your question regarding the wright brs is very odd. It seems like you are looking for arguments without thinking first.
Ok, God does inform us that HE was the one who granted us knowledge and taught us how to read, write, etc Do you think the wright brs used reasoning to build the plane? If so, can you do the same? Ofcourse not! You yourself said you lack knowledge of physics! So my point is that God inspired them and showed them how to build the plane.
Infact, MANY inventions were accidents!
Lets see you utilize your reasoning now, we have flys that simply take of vertically, but our planes don’t, can you used your observance of nature to see why?
Why do we teach children how to cross the road? Shouldnt they know by reasoning that you should see if a car is passing before running onto the road?
“You are confused, probably due to the huge size of the replies, it's easyer to belive in 1 God that set all the laws of nature than in a God that contradicts himself, that says that he's perfect but shows demandings of a dictator? Please don't be offended with this words of mine, not attacking faith just stating my point.”
Demandings of a dictator? When God says to feed the poor, help the need and be good to your wives, He is being a dictator?
Just as you teach your son NOT to play with fire , or he will get burnt; God teaches us (His creation!) to be good humans and how to do so, or we will cause destruction to ourself. This is becoming evident. We have Gay marriages now, transsexuals roaming around and even legalized prostitution and Incest in some countries! All in the name of ‘consenting adults!’
Crime rates are soaring, the rich get richer, etc. This is what human reasoning leads to. When GOD's LAWS ruled, the world was at peace.
And please don’t say crusaders were Christians as their true intentions have been exposed. They used their greedy reasoning to try make a path for trade of spices from the east, but didn’t want to go through the arab world/traders.
“Already replied this question when i spoke about the spirit evolution until it becomes an angel and helps God with all his matters.I don't make hard questions because could be considered an attack to someone's faith.”
Hard questions, you mean offensive questions. Please ask what you wish
You never prooved that the Angels or even Souls exists. Show me you’re your reasoning came up with that!
“I don't doubt that things maybe manipulated or organized by God, i want people to point me out in their Holly books where does God teach man to light fires, to build engines, to make reference to other planets, etc...”
If you want scientific miracles, then refer to the Qur’aan. The Qur’aan is not a book of science but of guidance.
It’s easy for God to put ALL inventions into book, but you know how many books that would take?
Priests? Well, as i stated previouslly, i'm converting to Islam but not because of reasoning but because of love, and according to the Sheik, beliving in God is already a huge step to be muslim and after reading some parts of the Qur'an i found out that God wants you to racionalize and not following a book blindly.”
The Qur’aan is a book of guidance. God has given it to men of REAL reasoning to follow. He never forced us to follow it or said we should follow it blindly. However, if we do not understand something, we may still follow it because our tiny minds cannot comprehend the wisdom and knowledge of God and why He revealed what He revealed. The below 5 verses are my humble wedding gift for you and your bride, barakallahu feekum!.
“…But those who disbelieve invent lies against Allâh, and most of them have no understanding.” (Al-Ma'idah 5:103)
“Indeed in their stories, there is a lesson for men of understanding. It (the Qur'an) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of the Allâh's existing Books and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a Mercy for the people who believe.” (Yusuf 12:111)
“Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you (O Muhammad SAW) from your Lord is the truth be like him who is blind? But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed.” (Ra'd 13:19)
“Is it not a guidance for them (to know) how many generations We have destroyed before them, in whose dwellings they walk? Verily, in this are signs indeed for men of understanding.” (Ta-Ha 20:128)
“(This is) a Book (the Qur'ân) which We have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may ponder over its Verses, and that men of understanding may remember.” (Sad 38:29)
“Well, it's not only the Qur'an, the Bible and the Torah have references to science too, not sure if more or less than the Qur'an, still have to fully read it to see how many references it makes to science.”
Yes, but many of the Biblical ones are wrong. Do you not know of Galileo and how the Christians locked him up???
“As a spiritist, how could i not belive in a soul if during the mediunic session i used to talk to souls/spirits. Regarding Jesus, his spirit/soul is alive but his body...is ashes by now.”
brother nice too nice, this may help to understand what is the reason of plato became a mediator who speaks with spirits.
How do you know those were souls your were speaking to? So you use those séance boards?
Amazing, for someone who uses reasoning, you have been fooled by some small trickery. And you mocked Moses!
You need to prove using your reasoning that spirits and angels exist.
I can explain any supernatural phenomena you experience with your ‘magic board’
You were fooled by what is called a Jinn. And yes, they have knowledge of what people do and thus it can pretend to be someone.
Jinn have also been mentioned in the Qur’aan and other scriptures.
As for your séance. Let me explain what happens: Everyone is accompanied with a jinn and angel. The jinn is the one that tells you (by whisperings) to do bad stuff. Anyway, when you die, your jinn doesn’t necessarily die too. He then goes to these fortunetellers and ‘mediums’. So when you think you are speaking to someone deceased, you are actually talking to his jinn, who is pretending to be him.
“"Yes He could but he didn't ;)”
But why? If God was just, why not make everyone the same colour? What could he benefit from making different colours?
brother plato, in the last post u have asked me a detailed answer for some Qs, but today the time is being tight, sure insha allah i will answer tomarrow. please be patient and wait.
assalam alaikum brother plato,
today, i will try my best to touch all points, if anything missed, i will cover it soon insha allah,
yes brother nice too nice, a little bit confusing.
brother plato let me start with your claim "contradictions" in revealtions, naudubillah!
"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy." (chapter 4, verse 82)
So point out ONE,(Only one) contradiction in the Quruan..
Allah challenged the mankind in His revelation
"Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah.- If ye speak the truth!" (chapter 11, verse 13)
Again Allah makes the challenge 'simpler'
"Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"(chapter 10, verse 38)
The shortest Sura(chapter) in the Quruan is sura 103, contains only 3 verses.
1 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
2 Verily Man is in loss,
3 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
So this is a challenge to you and all the people who denied Allah revelation ( Quruan)
But if you mean that contradictions are in Torah and Gospel (collectively known as Bible), ok I agree that. But when Allah revealed this books to the Moses and Jesus (peace be upon both of them),there is no contradictions in that books.
After,this Messengers passed away the people changed this books according to their wishes.
“Exactly, Nature is all that surround us, some of us, Deists, belive that Nature is God, i belive that nature is at least part of God.”
What do you mean Nature is all around us? What do YOU believe nature is, who created it and its purpose. And Why is the All Powerful God in need of something like nature? And Where is God?
“Of course i have, that's why i become a medium, only stopped because at a certain time the messages were coming directly to my mind even before the glass would finish the sentence.”
When you say medium…you mean….you communicate with the dead? Or you connect the dead with the living? Explain yourself, it seems like this is treading on to the Sci-Fi channel!
“Where did i say that i don't belive his laws? As a Deist, i belive that everything obey's to God's laws and that's why i don't belive in Satan or evil or hell."
You denied the revelations as you do not accept the Laws sanctioned in them.
You don’t believe in Evil? So hitler is what? A good guy!
As for everything obey’s God law. That’s rubbish. So people who don’t believe in God, obey God’s law?
“Let me make you a proposal, i use the reasoning and you use your faith to fly it ;)
Mankind isn't a plane. Mankind has already shown that they can leurn just observing nature, and using the example you gave concerning piloting a plane, where is it written in any of the revelation books how to fly a plane? Weren't the Wright brothers the 1st to pilot a plane?"
I wouldn’t use ‘faith’ to fly the plane. I believe God has given me the ability to learn and thus eventually fly. However, even then, I put my trust in Him as I only have so much control over the plane!
Your question regarding the wright brs is very odd. It seems like you are looking for arguments without thinking first.
Ok, God does inform us that HE was the one who granted us knowledge and taught us how to read, write, etc Do you think the wright brs used reasoning to build the plane? If so, can you do the same? Ofcourse not! You yourself said you lack knowledge of physics! So my point is that God inspired them and showed them how to build the plane.
Infact, MANY inventions were accidents!
Lets see you utilize your reasoning now, we have flys that simply take of vertically, but our planes don’t, can you used your observance of nature to see why?
Why do we teach children how to cross the road? Shouldnt they know by reasoning that you should see if a car is passing before running onto the road?
“You are confused, probably due to the huge size of the replies, it's easyer to belive in 1 God that set all the laws of nature than in a God that contradicts himself, that says that he's perfect but shows demandings of a dictator? Please don't be offended with this words of mine, not attacking faith just stating my point.”
Demandings of a dictator? When God says to feed the poor, help the need and be good to your wives, He is being a dictator?
Just as you teach your son NOT to play with fire , or he will get burnt; God teaches us (His creation!) to be good humans and how to do so, or we will cause destruction to ourself. This is becoming evident. We have Gay marriages now, transsexuals roaming around and even legalized prostitution and Incest in some countries! All in the name of ‘consenting adults!’
Crime rates are soaring, the rich get richer, etc. This is what human reasoning leads to. When GOD's LAWS ruled, the world was at peace.
And please don’t say crusaders were Christians as their true intentions have been exposed. They used their greedy reasoning to try make a path for trade of spices from the east, but didn’t want to go through the arab world/traders.
“Already replied this question when i spoke about the spirit evolution until it becomes an angel and helps God with all his matters.I don't make hard questions because could be considered an attack to someone's faith.”
Hard questions, you mean offensive questions. Please ask what you wish
You never prooved that the Angels or even Souls exists. Show me you’re your reasoning came up with that!
“I don't doubt that things maybe manipulated or organized by God, i want people to point me out in their Holly books where does God teach man to light fires, to build engines, to make reference to other planets, etc...”
If you want scientific miracles, then refer to the Qur’aan. The Qur’aan is not a book of science but of guidance.
It’s easy for God to put ALL inventions into book, but you know how many books that would take?
Priests? Well, as i stated previouslly, i'm converting to Islam but not because of reasoning but because of love, and according to the Sheik, beliving in God is already a huge step to be muslim and after reading some parts of the Qur'an i found out that God wants you to racionalize and not following a book blindly.”
The Qur’aan is a book of guidance. God has given it to men of REAL reasoning to follow. He never forced us to follow it or said we should follow it blindly. However, if we do not understand something, we may still follow it because our tiny minds cannot comprehend the wisdom and knowledge of God and why He revealed what He revealed. The below 5 verses are my humble wedding gift for you and your bride, barakallahu feekum!.
“…But those who disbelieve invent lies against Allâh, and most of them have no understanding.” (Al-Ma'idah 5:103)
“Indeed in their stories, there is a lesson for men of understanding. It (the Qur'an) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of the Allâh's existing Books and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a Mercy for the people who believe.” (Yusuf 12:111)
“Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you (O Muhammad SAW) from your Lord is the truth be like him who is blind? But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed.” (Ra'd 13:19)
“Is it not a guidance for them (to know) how many generations We have destroyed before them, in whose dwellings they walk? Verily, in this are signs indeed for men of understanding.” (Ta-Ha 20:128)
“(This is) a Book (the Qur'ân) which We have sent down to you, full of blessings that they may ponder over its Verses, and that men of understanding may remember.” (Sad 38:29)
“Well, it's not only the Qur'an, the Bible and the Torah have references to science too, not sure if more or less than the Qur'an, still have to fully read it to see how many references it makes to science.”
Yes, but many of the Biblical ones are wrong. Do you not know of Galileo and how the Christians locked him up???
“As a spiritist, how could i not belive in a soul if during the mediunic session i used to talk to souls/spirits. Regarding Jesus, his spirit/soul is alive but his body...is ashes by now.”
brother nice too nice, this may help to understand what is the reason of plato became a mediator who speaks with spirits.
How do you know those were souls your were speaking to? So you use those séance boards?
Amazing, for someone who uses reasoning, you have been fooled by some small trickery. And you mocked Moses!
You need to prove using your reasoning that spirits and angels exist.
I can explain any supernatural phenomena you experience with your ‘magic board’
You were fooled by what is called a Jinn. And yes, they have knowledge of what people do and thus it can pretend to be someone.
Jinn have also been mentioned in the Qur’aan and other scriptures.
As for your séance. Let me explain what happens: Everyone is accompanied with a jinn and angel. The jinn is the one that tells you (by whisperings) to do bad stuff. Anyway, when you die, your jinn doesn’t necessarily die too. He then goes to these fortunetellers and ‘mediums’. So when you think you are speaking to someone deceased, you are actually talking to his jinn, who is pretending to be him.
“"Yes He could but he didn't ;)”
But why? If God was just, why not make everyone the same colour? What could he benefit from making different colours?
brother plato, in the last post u have asked me a detailed answer for some Qs, but today the time is being tight, sure insha allah i will answer tomarrow. please be patient and wait.
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
God bless u brother plato.