brother qureshi
sorry to say, i have to remind your the below facts for your argument sake.
i am not talking about the translations of bible, i know they may varry, i am talking about the root source bibles in hebrew(arbani), aramic, suriyani and greek, u can download the books from google itself. i will not use the word "currption" as i acknowledged, but i have to say as replay to your post,u have to read about the history of Bible, its not a hidden truth, u can read about king constantine and nicea council from encarta,britanica of encyclopedia, they are very authentic source than wikipedia. i am not saying about the difference in translations, i am saying about the different in number of verses of a book, different in number of books(eg:catholics have more number of chapters than protostants) and verses removed out of context, verses changed meanings, verses added and editted,almost a kind of subtraction and addition, i am doing an online cource on bible from the university of tornado, canada, and passed many modules of it and won certificates, my collegues are missionaries from university of chicago and alberta, and i can read their thesis report with power point seminar presentation,all are independent proofs including the gospel of barnabas also i have so many catholic frnds here and nuns, they openly accepted it, its not a garbage, i have got a chance to know many facts including davinchi code issue with them. they are well aware about the "unknown" authers or assumed authers, for example i have asked some 20 books which are not included there in the bible, i wonder why that books are not included, any scale or crieteria for adding books? did jesus(pbh)teach it?i dont know, and my protastant frnds claim "they are the true christians" just like brother dmighty solomon, but when i ask something from bible, they used to qoute me the verse number and book name unlike brother dmighty solomon. just take a NIV 1950 published bible(which is now here in my table)and buy a new bible of same version, u can find so many differences.One open stage discussion convention, 2 hebrew bibles of two christian brothers laptop differed!just infront of camera.this is not a new issue,i belive Bible WAS the word of GOD, but christians failed to preserve it perfectly for the latest people.and about traslsation, the "periclitus" equivalent in hebrew bible can be translated to arabic as "muhammed",.take an another example, the qur'an in my home, in your home, the first printed copy of usman and oldest copies in egypt library, Qur'an printed in india before 1938(tarjjuma by our freedom struggler abul kalam azad and tranlsations with pure arabic sources of A yousuf ali after 1950s and all copies publishing from madeena university are exactly same amazingly.i just wished to remind u, just leave it, i dont like to discuss about it because all of my christian brothers and sisters well aware about it.
brother dmighty solomon
we dont believe our laws are obselete, we believe our laws are issued by GOD for HIS latest people, i have given some testimonials to prove its the word of GOD.
"we don't recognize Prophet Mohammad because we don't recognize Quran."
this is what jews said when jesus came. In kerala our ancestors are not muslims(hindus), king cheraman perumal embraced islam in the life time prophet Muhammed, and though kerala, islam entered into india.
"We can never be the same because, yes you are right, But you are entitled to your belief as I am for my belief."
but we have 2 million truth seekers every year all around the world that's why islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, most of them are christians from west and australia.
"I can not quote you verses because I am not familiar with verses but with God's words."
i want verses surely, them only i accept those u said are the teachings of Jesus or word of GOD, if u are not familiar with verses, u can ask other frnds or scholors, anyway produce the verses for each of your argument about the mentioned issues, if u can't qoute means that laws are nowhere in your holy book!
about your sinner claim, i have asked a Q about it, u can check my previous posts,
i dont know to whome u are blaming "u are not practising what is written in Qur'an", maybe u did'nt meet a good muslim in your life. but me and the muslims around here are very submissive to islam, so i can't say they are wrong followers. the world discovery channel telecasted "routes of islam", and it says that the only one faith wich have more number followers than any other religion who are practising according to their holy book is islam, one and only.
and i openly agreed that there are some wrong followers who are responsible for their own actions,(i said less number) just like the car example i have given. we have answered it that The one who doesn't follow the Teaching of Islam is already out of Islam. No one has to expel him. One more thing, Islam is not a society or union to expel some one. It is a way of life and the one who don't follow is already away from the system. and the one who disobey the teachings of GOD is punished by GOD.
about slavation in islam also i have explained here(it seems that u did'nt read my posts, is'nt it?)ok i will again give it.
The bible says:
“The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him…” [Ezekiel 18:20 NIV]
and the Qur'aan says:
"Or is he not informed with what is in the Pages (Scripture) of Mûsa (Moses), And of Ibrâhim (Abraham) who fulfilled (or conveyed) all that (what Allâh ordered him to do or convey), That no burdened person (with sins) shall bear the burden (sins) of another, And that man can have nothing but what he does (good or bad), And that his deeds will be seen," (An-Najm 53:36 - 40)
Matthew 19:16-17 and Mark 10:18 which says :
"One came onto him [Jesus] and asked him 'Good master what good deeds shall I do to have eternal life'
Jesus replies 'Why do you call me good for there is none good but one and that is God. and to have eternal life, keep the commandments'".
Well the main belief of christians is you simply believe in Jesus as your saviour and you will reach paradise. But Jesus told people to follow him and his teachings to reach paradise.
Sura Asr 103:1-3 from Quran :
"By (the token of time) through ages. Verily mankind is in loss. Except such as have faith, adn do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of truth, and of patience and constancy."
This sura gives the criteria to reach paradise. You need to fulfill all these four criteria to reach paradise. any one of them missing, you will not reach paradise. First one is that you need to have faith. then you need to do rightoeus deeds. Then you need to invite people towards truth.And then you need to invite people towards patience and perceverence.
According to Bible keeping the Law is must for Salvation. See what Jesus said;
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.{Matthew 5:20}
Same is testified by James, see the following of his words recorded in the Bible;
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"{James 2:14}
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."{James 2:17}
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."{James 2:24}
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.{Matthew 19:16-17}
So SALAVATION according to bible depends only KEEPING THE COMMNADMENTS and NOT MERELY A BELIEF.
so according to bible to get eternal salvation, we have to follow the commandments of jesus, NOT JUST HAVE FAITH, BUT TO FOLLOW IT,
To show that you love someone, you need to be obedient to them. Me muslims follow Jesus more than Christian themselves.
"Verily those who believed, and those of the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whoever believed in God and the Last Day, and worked righteousness - no fear shall be upon them, nor shall they grieve." [Holy Qur'an 5:69]
and brother dmighty solomon if u r a true christian, worked righteousness, believed in God and the Last Day, we will meet in jannah(paradise), heaven insha allah!
brother qureshi
sorry to say, i have to remind your the below facts for your argument sake.
i am not talking about the translations of bible, i know they may varry, i am talking about the root source bibles in hebrew(arbani), aramic, suriyani and greek, u can download the books from google itself. i will not use the word "currption" as i acknowledged, but i have to say as replay to your post,u have to read about the history of Bible, its not a hidden truth, u can read about king constantine and nicea council from encarta,britanica of encyclopedia, they are very authentic source than wikipedia. i am not saying about the difference in translations, i am saying about the different in number of verses of a book, different in number of books(eg:catholics have more number of chapters than protostants) and verses removed out of context, verses changed meanings, verses added and editted,almost a kind of subtraction and addition, i am doing an online cource on bible from the university of tornado, canada, and passed many modules of it and won certificates, my collegues are missionaries from university of chicago and alberta, and i can read their thesis report with power point seminar presentation,all are independent proofs including the gospel of barnabas also i have so many catholic frnds here and nuns, they openly accepted it, its not a garbage, i have got a chance to know many facts including davinchi code issue with them. they are well aware about the "unknown" authers or assumed authers, for example i have asked some 20 books which are not included there in the bible, i wonder why that books are not included, any scale or crieteria for adding books? did jesus(pbh)teach it?i dont know, and my protastant frnds claim "they are the true christians" just like brother dmighty solomon, but when i ask something from bible, they used to qoute me the verse number and book name unlike brother dmighty solomon. just take a NIV 1950 published bible(which is now here in my table)and buy a new bible of same version, u can find so many differences.One open stage discussion convention, 2 hebrew bibles of two christian brothers laptop differed!just infront of camera.this is not a new issue,i belive Bible WAS the word of GOD, but christians failed to preserve it perfectly for the latest people.and about traslsation, the "periclitus" equivalent in hebrew bible can be translated to arabic as "muhammed",.take an another example, the qur'an in my home, in your home, the first printed copy of usman and oldest copies in egypt library, Qur'an printed in india before 1938(tarjjuma by our freedom struggler abul kalam azad and tranlsations with pure arabic sources of A yousuf ali after 1950s and all copies publishing from madeena university are exactly same amazingly.i just wished to remind u, just leave it, i dont like to discuss about it because all of my christian brothers and sisters well aware about it.
brother dmighty solomon
we dont believe our laws are obselete, we believe our laws are issued by GOD for HIS latest people, i have given some testimonials to prove its the word of GOD.
"we don't recognize Prophet Mohammad because we don't recognize Quran."
this is what jews said when jesus came. In kerala our ancestors are not muslims(hindus), king cheraman perumal embraced islam in the life time prophet Muhammed, and though kerala, islam entered into india.
"We can never be the same because, yes you are right, But you are entitled to your belief as I am for my belief."
but we have 2 million truth seekers every year all around the world that's why islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, most of them are christians from west and australia.
"I can not quote you verses because I am not familiar with verses but with God's words."
i want verses surely, them only i accept those u said are the teachings of Jesus or word of GOD, if u are not familiar with verses, u can ask other frnds or scholors, anyway produce the verses for each of your argument about the mentioned issues, if u can't qoute means that laws are nowhere in your holy book!
about your sinner claim, i have asked a Q about it, u can check my previous posts,
i dont know to whome u are blaming "u are not practising what is written in Qur'an", maybe u did'nt meet a good muslim in your life. but me and the muslims around here are very submissive to islam, so i can't say they are wrong followers. the world discovery channel telecasted "routes of islam", and it says that the only one faith wich have more number followers than any other religion who are practising according to their holy book is islam, one and only.
and i openly agreed that there are some wrong followers who are responsible for their own actions,(i said less number) just like the car example i have given. we have answered it that The one who doesn't follow the Teaching of Islam is already out of Islam. No one has to expel him. One more thing, Islam is not a society or union to expel some one. It is a way of life and the one who don't follow is already away from the system. and the one who disobey the teachings of GOD is punished by GOD.
about slavation in islam also i have explained here(it seems that u did'nt read my posts, is'nt it?)ok i will again give it.
The bible says:
“The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him…” [Ezekiel 18:20 NIV]
and the Qur'aan says:
"Or is he not informed with what is in the Pages (Scripture) of Mûsa (Moses), And of Ibrâhim (Abraham) who fulfilled (or conveyed) all that (what Allâh ordered him to do or convey), That no burdened person (with sins) shall bear the burden (sins) of another, And that man can have nothing but what he does (good or bad), And that his deeds will be seen," (An-Najm 53:36 - 40)
Matthew 19:16-17 and Mark 10:18 which says :
"One came onto him [Jesus] and asked him 'Good master what good deeds shall I do to have eternal life'
Jesus replies 'Why do you call me good for there is none good but one and that is God. and to have eternal life, keep the commandments'".
Well the main belief of christians is you simply believe in Jesus as your saviour and you will reach paradise. But Jesus told people to follow him and his teachings to reach paradise.
Sura Asr 103:1-3 from Quran :
"By (the token of time) through ages. Verily mankind is in loss. Except such as have faith, adn do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of truth, and of patience and constancy."
This sura gives the criteria to reach paradise. You need to fulfill all these four criteria to reach paradise. any one of them missing, you will not reach paradise. First one is that you need to have faith. then you need to do rightoeus deeds. Then you need to invite people towards truth.And then you need to invite people towards patience and perceverence.
According to Bible keeping the Law is must for Salvation. See what Jesus said;
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.{Matthew 5:20}
Same is testified by James, see the following of his words recorded in the Bible;
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"{James 2:14}
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."{James 2:17}
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."{James 2:24}
"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.{Matthew 19:16-17}
So SALAVATION according to bible depends only KEEPING THE COMMNADMENTS and NOT MERELY A BELIEF.
so according to bible to get eternal salvation, we have to follow the commandments of jesus, NOT JUST HAVE FAITH, BUT TO FOLLOW IT,
To show that you love someone, you need to be obedient to them. Me muslims follow Jesus more than Christian themselves.
"Verily those who believed, and those of the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whoever believed in God and the Last Day, and worked righteousness - no fear shall be upon them, nor shall they grieve." [Holy Qur'an 5:69]
and brother dmighty solomon if u r a true christian, worked righteousness, believed in God and the Last Day, we will meet in jannah(paradise), heaven insha allah!
wasalaam brother, love u alot!!!