I agree Andrew, and I respect all the views of the esteemed colleagues in the debate. But I would say to your last point, is a desire to do good enough to guide you to it? Wanting to become an engineer is a desire. Can it be done without going through school university and practical application? I'm an engineer, so I know the answer is no LOL. But after going through all that to become one, I see the wisdom of my parents urging me to study and be patient when it gets so tough that you wanna jump out of the ninth floor window. And now I am grateful, and live a life that I am happy with. Others who didn't take that path are not so happy, but the choice was theirs all along.