I did not say in my previous post that it was "better" to live in the east the europe. Rather I said that a few bad apples (maybe even to many than should be) is not only limited to muslims. Alot of really raunchy shit happens in the uk by peoples own family members too.
I clearly made that point because the title somehow suggested that "shariah" law is to blame.
Are they using shariah law as a justification? Most muslims in the uk know that these are cultural and family related problems. If a few crazy muslims claim it is part of shariah does that mean they truly believe that? Charles Manson claimed he was doing the work of God too!
Are muslims who live in the uk against the west? Not at all! If you are not from the uk then you should hear first hand what a racist and unfriendly society it is here. That is coming from a white american who wears a head cover and has many english friends!
Now place a pakistani from the most corrupted, poorest and illiterate part of pakistan with a bunch of snobby unfriendly brits in the 1950's who view pakistanis as "the lowest of the working class" in a factory of rough uneducated english bafoons.
The result was an extremely insular pakistani community who was harrassed and humiliated here in the uk. Despite goverment fairness and support. Many of these characters who knew nothing of Islam turned to a sect called Brailwees and continued the cultural villagy beliefs of their community. Which served as a catalyst to keep money in the family. Many husbands left wives in mirpur pakistan and when they came to the uk were treated extremely inhumanely and forced to put up with cheating and abuse. They were not victims of "shariah" law! It was a cultural and survival techniques added to some lovely hindu traditions of no divorce and an extreme illiterate and helpless community to bring about such injustice.
My husbands family came from one of the more upper middle class Indian families. His mother, a gujrati muslim, born in 1938 was educated with a bachelors in english (no small feat for a women of her time). All of her sisters and brothers were very wealthy and married doctors, engineers and business owners. Her father was a civil servant in karachi pakistan after the india/pakistani split.
Accordingly one of her sisters came to live in the uk and held parties with the english and would drink alcohol and try to fit in. Her husband was a GP and they sent their daughter to private school. The daughter married an english man who cheated on her.. and is now married to a yemeni through her own choice.
Even in my husbands own upper middle class family divorce is a big issue because, as gujratees, they carry alot of hindu traditions. His father could not find good quality work as an engineer and ended up working in one of the factories. His mother held a job to support the family. His parents actually divorced in 1990 and his mother refuses to leave the house because of her shame.
As one of the only brownies in East london my husband tells me alot of stories when he never walked home.. HE RAN!
Now the stories of people above are usually from really really backward pakistani/muslim families. Certainly in my husbands case (while many cultural baggage existed with his parents) he was easily able to marry a girl of his choice. Despite his fathers desire for him to marry one of his cousins. In fact I have many friends who are english in every way accept for religion. Mainly educated in a profession and can be both proud of their muslim heritage as well as the english traditions that are halal.
As for a wealthy mirpuri/jaat family who has strong connections in pakistan then this is usually not the case. Their is alot of corruption in pakistan!
Do muslims hate the english! Quite the opposite. Most of the pakistani muslim try to emulate the english because they believe that the culture of their parents is based on Islam (ignorance) and that the west has all the answers. These people usually take the rougher English as role models. Others know nothing else because of the insular communities and fear making the family upset or the repercussions of their uneducated parents.
The majority of muslims in this country who have lived here their whole life have very little understanding of english culture (despite trying to emulate them). Because of the insular communities within both pakistani and english cultures and racism between the two. I have noticed as an american that the majority of pakistanis do not understand the subtleties of the english culture and the class codes!
Another reason that the muslim communities are so distant to the english is because of their rules of socializing. For instance a person in england rarely exchanges first names or even introduces themself in a conversation if met randomly on the street. A talk about the weather and some witty remark is usually needed to open up a conversation which should never be too personal or intrusive. Lets call it the english social disability that meeting or leaving a very dry english conversation inevitably carries with it a degree of discomfort. As a result the best places to meet the english are in pubs (where a different set of rules exist), at parties (where alcohol is almost always involved), and through friends.
Muslims have a few issues here because they are not allowed to drink, enter pubs, or be at a party where others are drinking. Even if they did go.. it would have to be consistantly over a period of time to establish friendships and show the already racist stereotypes of muslims carry very little weight in reality. The majority of muslim cultures are extremely friendly and find it hard to understand the english as immigrants are not given a book on english culture. It has taken me 5 years to even have a simple understanding myself.
The only generation that are even becoming open minded is at universities where muslims and english have a comfortable and positive enviroment to get to know each other. In my own area many whites have never been friends with a muslim and often come to me and say they never realized that where they lived one cannot see any brownies.
As a muslim I find it odd to hang out with the english who are into music, sex outside of marriage (i.e. dating), clubbing, or pub runs. These really put a damper on getting to know the english and trying to respect them and because of the social disabilities(Kate Fox) inherant within english culture. And they also tend to find me odd when I dress so differently and I am sure do not know where to put me in terms of class. Since I am clearly not "working class" (hate that word), well spoken, good manners, kids go to a "white" private school yet incredibly simple and humble in terms of housing, car, clothes and personality. Extremely friendly and perhaps even brash as an american. And I am sure the most hated sin being that I love to blow my own horn! :)
So with all these social issues and many many more we have an islamic insular community that has many ignorant beliefs (these DO NOT INCLUDE honour killings or force marriage). The desire to have freedom(like in american religious freedom) (rather than tolerance) when practicing the Islamic principals that many carry. And perhaps an understanding and friendship with the english. The amount of ignorance about islam and the social reasons behind many crimes committed by a very small number, the media promoting islamphobia and racism is something to consider when trying to understand the muslims in britain.
And it is no wonder that many of the suicide bombers were from the uk because of the issues of racism. My own daughter who speaks nothing other than english is called "black" at school. Kids do not play with her because they don't like "pakis" and although I live in a quaint english upper middle class village.. I often have comments thrown out car windows by cowards that I should "go back to your own country" and other abuses. We are not invited to some of the parties because of racism and very few of my neighbors have bothered to be friendly.
Having said that I do think times are changing. And that their are groups of people who are growing stronger in racism. I hear the hammersmith skinheads are gaining in popularity in england. And also a growing amount of people who are more understanding and open minded towards other cultures then even 10 years ago. While I suffer from an extreme amount of abuse .. I also have alot of people who apologize for their country man.. and say they "are happy you have moved into the village."
As for the media.. well I think one should experience life rather than taking someones word for it. Do I as a muslim or any of the many sects extreme, open minded or jihaadi muslims in the uk desire shariah law? I am sure it would be welcome to have some inheritance laws..
As a muslim I can vouch for myself in that I would personally not like to push my own beliefs on my host country. We need to start with our own countries first and root out the evil. And it is incumbant upon all the muslims to make hijrah (move to where they can practice their faith) if they can.
Most of even the staunchest jihaadi muslims that I have met are in agreement with that opinion. Sure we have a few who are completely brain dead... but that is a very small minority. Have a few people in utah who call themselves mormon but practice polygamy too. So go figure!
And I as a muslim would feel the uk goverment is completely within reason to kick out those who do not wish to abide by their laws. After all if you don't like the system then get the hell out! What I don't appreciate is the amount of racism and abuse by the goverment and media which has caused a new ignorant generation of islamphobia to exist. And as a consequence of more racism .. there will be more muslims who are equally as offended and take unwise actions to make themselves heard. (example of a teenager who is hurt by parents and does things to get their attention.. sometimes very harmful things)
According to statistics (which I am not very fond of) 73% of the english do not support immigration to england. I am sure if I had known this as a muslim american.. then I may have never come. Since I am here.. I am not just trying to make the best of the situation as I can. And have met some fantastic people on the way. Both muslim and english.
I did not say in my previous post that it was "better" to live in the east the europe. Rather I said that a few bad apples (maybe even to many than should be) is not only limited to muslims. Alot of really raunchy shit happens in the uk by peoples own family members too.
I clearly made that point because the title somehow suggested that "shariah" law is to blame.
Are they using shariah law as a justification? Most muslims in the uk know that these are cultural and family related problems. If a few crazy muslims claim it is part of shariah does that mean they truly believe that? Charles Manson claimed he was doing the work of God too!
Are muslims who live in the uk against the west? Not at all! If you are not from the uk then you should hear first hand what a racist and unfriendly society it is here. That is coming from a white american who wears a head cover and has many english friends!
Now place a pakistani from the most corrupted, poorest and illiterate part of pakistan with a bunch of snobby unfriendly brits in the 1950's who view pakistanis as "the lowest of the working class" in a factory of rough uneducated english bafoons.
The result was an extremely insular pakistani community who was harrassed and humiliated here in the uk. Despite goverment fairness and support. Many of these characters who knew nothing of Islam turned to a sect called Brailwees and continued the cultural villagy beliefs of their community. Which served as a catalyst to keep money in the family. Many husbands left wives in mirpur pakistan and when they came to the uk were treated extremely inhumanely and forced to put up with cheating and abuse. They were not victims of "shariah" law! It was a cultural and survival techniques added to some lovely hindu traditions of no divorce and an extreme illiterate and helpless community to bring about such injustice.
My husbands family came from one of the more upper middle class Indian families. His mother, a gujrati muslim, born in 1938 was educated with a bachelors in english (no small feat for a women of her time). All of her sisters and brothers were very wealthy and married doctors, engineers and business owners. Her father was a civil servant in karachi pakistan after the india/pakistani split.
Accordingly one of her sisters came to live in the uk and held parties with the english and would drink alcohol and try to fit in. Her husband was a GP and they sent their daughter to private school. The daughter married an english man who cheated on her.. and is now married to a yemeni through her own choice.
Even in my husbands own upper middle class family divorce is a big issue because, as gujratees, they carry alot of hindu traditions. His father could not find good quality work as an engineer and ended up working in one of the factories. His mother held a job to support the family. His parents actually divorced in 1990 and his mother refuses to leave the house because of her shame.
As one of the only brownies in East london my husband tells me alot of stories when he never walked home.. HE RAN!
Now the stories of people above are usually from really really backward pakistani/muslim families. Certainly in my husbands case (while many cultural baggage existed with his parents) he was easily able to marry a girl of his choice. Despite his fathers desire for him to marry one of his cousins. In fact I have many friends who are english in every way accept for religion. Mainly educated in a profession and can be both proud of their muslim heritage as well as the english traditions that are halal.
As for a wealthy mirpuri/jaat family who has strong connections in pakistan then this is usually not the case. Their is alot of corruption in pakistan!
Do muslims hate the english! Quite the opposite. Most of the pakistani muslim try to emulate the english because they believe that the culture of their parents is based on Islam (ignorance) and that the west has all the answers. These people usually take the rougher English as role models. Others know nothing else because of the insular communities and fear making the family upset or the repercussions of their uneducated parents.
The majority of muslims in this country who have lived here their whole life have very little understanding of english culture (despite trying to emulate them). Because of the insular communities within both pakistani and english cultures and racism between the two. I have noticed as an american that the majority of pakistanis do not understand the subtleties of the english culture and the class codes!
Another reason that the muslim communities are so distant to the english is because of their rules of socializing. For instance a person in england rarely exchanges first names or even introduces themself in a conversation if met randomly on the street. A talk about the weather and some witty remark is usually needed to open up a conversation which should never be too personal or intrusive. Lets call it the english social disability that meeting or leaving a very dry english conversation inevitably carries with it a degree of discomfort. As a result the best places to meet the english are in pubs (where a different set of rules exist), at parties (where alcohol is almost always involved), and through friends.
Muslims have a few issues here because they are not allowed to drink, enter pubs, or be at a party where others are drinking. Even if they did go.. it would have to be consistantly over a period of time to establish friendships and show the already racist stereotypes of muslims carry very little weight in reality. The majority of muslim cultures are extremely friendly and find it hard to understand the english as immigrants are not given a book on english culture. It has taken me 5 years to even have a simple understanding myself.
The only generation that are even becoming open minded is at universities where muslims and english have a comfortable and positive enviroment to get to know each other. In my own area many whites have never been friends with a muslim and often come to me and say they never realized that where they lived one cannot see any brownies.
As a muslim I find it odd to hang out with the english who are into music, sex outside of marriage (i.e. dating), clubbing, or pub runs. These really put a damper on getting to know the english and trying to respect them and because of the social disabilities(Kate Fox) inherant within english culture. And they also tend to find me odd when I dress so differently and I am sure do not know where to put me in terms of class. Since I am clearly not "working class" (hate that word), well spoken, good manners, kids go to a "white" private school yet incredibly simple and humble in terms of housing, car, clothes and personality. Extremely friendly and perhaps even brash as an american. And I am sure the most hated sin being that I love to blow my own horn! :)
So with all these social issues and many many more we have an islamic insular community that has many ignorant beliefs (these DO NOT INCLUDE honour killings or force marriage). The desire to have freedom(like in american religious freedom) (rather than tolerance) when practicing the Islamic principals that many carry. And perhaps an understanding and friendship with the english. The amount of ignorance about islam and the social reasons behind many crimes committed by a very small number, the media promoting islamphobia and racism is something to consider when trying to understand the muslims in britain.
And it is no wonder that many of the suicide bombers were from the uk because of the issues of racism. My own daughter who speaks nothing other than english is called "black" at school. Kids do not play with her because they don't like "pakis" and although I live in a quaint english upper middle class village.. I often have comments thrown out car windows by cowards that I should "go back to your own country" and other abuses. We are not invited to some of the parties because of racism and very few of my neighbors have bothered to be friendly.
Having said that I do think times are changing. And that their are groups of people who are growing stronger in racism. I hear the hammersmith skinheads are gaining in popularity in england. And also a growing amount of people who are more understanding and open minded towards other cultures then even 10 years ago. While I suffer from an extreme amount of abuse .. I also have alot of people who apologize for their country man.. and say they "are happy you have moved into the village."
As for the media.. well I think one should experience life rather than taking someones word for it. Do I as a muslim or any of the many sects extreme, open minded or jihaadi muslims in the uk desire shariah law? I am sure it would be welcome to have some inheritance laws..
As a muslim I can vouch for myself in that I would personally not like to push my own beliefs on my host country. We need to start with our own countries first and root out the evil. And it is incumbant upon all the muslims to make hijrah (move to where they can practice their faith) if they can.
Most of even the staunchest jihaadi muslims that I have met are in agreement with that opinion. Sure we have a few who are completely brain dead... but that is a very small minority. Have a few people in utah who call themselves mormon but practice polygamy too. So go figure!
And I as a muslim would feel the uk goverment is completely within reason to kick out those who do not wish to abide by their laws. After all if you don't like the system then get the hell out! What I don't appreciate is the amount of racism and abuse by the goverment and media which has caused a new ignorant generation of islamphobia to exist. And as a consequence of more racism .. there will be more muslims who are equally as offended and take unwise actions to make themselves heard. (example of a teenager who is hurt by parents and does things to get their attention.. sometimes very harmful things)
According to statistics (which I am not very fond of) 73% of the english do not support immigration to england. I am sure if I had known this as a muslim american.. then I may have never come. Since I am here.. I am not just trying to make the best of the situation as I can. And have met some fantastic people on the way. Both muslim and english.