hello maximoo,
hey kamostaka? mahal kita! (ooopss, i take back my words)i really missed your 'wonderful' responds!
quoted:
"shes having a good time right now, figuring out what she wants for dessert. :}
Or who she wants for dessert!" :]
-----> welldone! (thumbs up). with that statements, you managed to twist the arrow AS IF i am the one who is "seeking for a victim" here. BUT i guess its YOU who had choused a wrong victim, which ironically turned yourself into a "victim" in the end honey...!
here, have some dessert:
quoted:
lawyers “they are the great practitioner of this skill”
------> honey, NOT only lawyers can be a great practitioner, but "Ordinary people" too. because we dont have to be a lawyer first inorder to have the ability to lie, because anyone can lie! lawyers are NOT necessarily liars, because NOT all lawyers choose to misuse their talents just for the sake of to "satisfy themselves"!
with this only little knowledge i have on law, at least it helps me to realize when "people are tying to manipulate stuffs" in dealing with me- and it helps me in tackling to counterattack and to refute their false argumentation instead of letting myself to be easily becoming their "victim".
thank Allah, with His guidance, at least i managed to get things right and remove the doubt and confusions....had i not granted with that knowledge, i guess there is a big possibilities for it to open a chance for my dignity and religion to be easily being attacked and distorted!
maximoo dear, u know honey, people who have "linguistic intelligence" may appear to be a good speaker. and based on my experience in communicating with you, i realize that you are one of those who possess that " linguistic intelligence". so why not you be a lawyer instead! you can make more money. sitting in front of PC,-posting and receiving "unexpected and ironic" responds in the end- doesn’t make you rich dear. If you become a lawyer, (even if you lie), that’s ok in your religion right? for there are called 'venial and mortal' sins of lying. in which, they are the one who ‘gives an option for you to lie’.
NOT like in our religion, lying (telling false info) is totally forbidden and regarded as sin. even though there are 2 types on sins in our religion: major and minor. BUT even then, our religion does emphasize its ummah to "NOT TO TAKE THE MINOR SINS LIGHTLY" as our beloved prophet muhammad (pbuh) said:
"Beware of the minor sins which are often thought as insignificant, for they are like a group of people who stopped in the bottom of a valley. One of them brought a piece of wood, and another brought the same, until they had gathered enough to cook their food. These minor sins, if a person is called to account for them, will destroy him”.
According to another report, He said:
“Beware of minor sins, for they will pile up until they destroy a person”. (Reported by Ahmad: saheeh al-jami, 2686-2687).
Really I don’t want to carry this argumentation (but I rather called it as ‘religion discussion’) into extreme, because I am sacred you will think that as if I am trying to find a ‘defect’ in your religion. And as I said, in this discussion, I am NOT here to win, but to reveal the truth of our religion by providing “proof and evidences”. NOT by “trying to find the defects of one religion so that the other religion may seems appear to be glittering and shinning in the end!”.
Let me emphasize back, what our beloved prophet has said:
“When you are debating (discussing) about something, the intention of the debate should be seeking for the truth, NOT for winning”. (I think, by now you should have understood this statement, and NOT trying to make another kind of perversion again on it!)
I am not angry with you, and I respect your superb thoughts and opinions. It’s just my heart burn when you manipulated the quotation of our beloved prophet, and “confidently” thought that you have made a “right conclusion” based on your FALSE thought! What you said and did could distort the image of our prophet and religion (if I was not given a chance to speak of the truth!). Not believing Allah the almighty is one thing! But attack against our beloved prophet (in any ways: direct/indirect) is just like attacking the whole ummah (muslims)!
If it was just your “doubt” of our religion, then I could have tolerate with you, for our religion does encourage its ummah to have doubt, and NOT to accept everything with blind imitation because it can lead to astray. Having ‘doubt’ may build a felling of wanting to seek for answers that may convey them to the truth in the end. There are many cases in which the Non-believers had doubt in their heart- then, seek for answers- when they discovered the truth, they embraced islam. But had you ‘really have doubt’ in the first place , you would have asked for further explanations from me before making that firm FALSE conclusion, (As how I had doubted your verses of holy book, then asking for further explanations from you).
ethics of argumentation in islam:
1)argument should focus on its subject matter, NOT the person involved in the argument.
2)Argumentation should stick firmly to morality and good manners.
3)Argumentation should be concluded with peace NOT enmity and hostility.
your “subject” is about truth or lies right?
Here you go! :
“it is those who believe not in the ‘ayat’ (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs revelations, etc) of Allah, who FABRICATE FALSEHOOD, and it is they who are LIARS” (Quran 16: 105)
“and grievous is the chastisements they (incur), because they lied to (themselves)” (Quran 2:10)
“woe to every sinful liars” (Quran 45:7)
“….and shun the word that is false.” (Quran 22:30)
Umm Kalthum the daughter of ‘Uqba reported that Allah messenger (pbuh) said:
“a great liars are not the one who makes peace between the people by inventing good information of saying what is good.” (Bukhari and Muslim)
in a muslim’s version she added: “I had not heard him i.e. prophet (pbuh) giving license for anything people say falsely except in three matters: war, making peace between people, and what a man says to his wife and her wife says to her husband”.
Bahz Ibn hakin, on his father’s authority, said that his grandfather reported Allah’s messenger (pbuh) as saying:
“woe be to him who tells things, speaking falsely, to make the people laugh, woe to him! Woe to him!”
Some of the major tribulations of human existence are the consequences of committing sins and spreading the evil into the world. According to the moral scale of islam, it is known that men is imperfect and fallible and prone to committing to sins. This is part of his innate weak nature as a finite limited creature. HOWEVER, “it is a sin” if he has the ways and means to attain relative moral perfection and deliberately chooses not to seek it.
To cut things short, i enjoy this discussion talk with you, and I hope we may get some knowledge on it, because you gave me some knowledge about your religion. And our religion does emphasized its ummah (people) to respect the religion of others, even though we don’t adopt them, for we give freedom in religion, as we believe ‘let there be no compulsion in religion’. I respect your religion and I’m hoping for you to be the same too. Your religion is your religion; my religion is my religion, for you have your own belief as I adhere firmly to my own true belief.
Let me end this fruitful religion discussion with a quotation of our beloved prophet Muhammad (pbuh):
“Truthfulness leads to righteous and righteous leads to paradise. A man speaks the truth and makes truth his object until he is written as eminently truthful. Falsehood leads to wickedness and wickedness leads to hell-fire, and a man speaks falsehood and makes falsehood his object until he is written as a great liar.” (Bukhari and Muslim).
Quoted:
"Peace"
--------> u'r Right! (Thumbs up)
---------------where there is friendship, there is NO 'hurt feelings':)--------------------
hello maximoo,
hey kamostaka? mahal kita! (ooopss, i take back my words)i really missed your 'wonderful' responds!
quoted:
"shes having a good time right now, figuring out what she wants for dessert. :}
Or who she wants for dessert!" :]
-----> welldone! (thumbs up). with that statements, you managed to twist the arrow AS IF i am the one who is "seeking for a victim" here. BUT i guess its YOU who had choused a wrong victim, which ironically turned yourself into a "victim" in the end honey...!
here, have some dessert:
quoted:
lawyers “they are the great practitioner of this skill”
------> honey, NOT only lawyers can be a great practitioner, but "Ordinary people" too. because we dont have to be a lawyer first inorder to have the ability to lie, because anyone can lie! lawyers are NOT necessarily liars, because NOT all lawyers choose to misuse their talents just for the sake of to "satisfy themselves"!
with this only little knowledge i have on law, at least it helps me to realize when "people are tying to manipulate stuffs" in dealing with me- and it helps me in tackling to counterattack and to refute their false argumentation instead of letting myself to be easily becoming their "victim".
thank Allah, with His guidance, at least i managed to get things right and remove the doubt and confusions....had i not granted with that knowledge, i guess there is a big possibilities for it to open a chance for my dignity and religion to be easily being attacked and distorted!
maximoo dear, u know honey, people who have "linguistic intelligence" may appear to be a good speaker. and based on my experience in communicating with you, i realize that you are one of those who possess that " linguistic intelligence". so why not you be a lawyer instead! you can make more money. sitting in front of PC,-posting and receiving "unexpected and ironic" responds in the end- doesn’t make you rich dear. If you become a lawyer, (even if you lie), that’s ok in your religion right? for there are called 'venial and mortal' sins of lying. in which, they are the one who ‘gives an option for you to lie’.
NOT like in our religion, lying (telling false info) is totally forbidden and regarded as sin. even though there are 2 types on sins in our religion: major and minor. BUT even then, our religion does emphasize its ummah to "NOT TO TAKE THE MINOR SINS LIGHTLY" as our beloved prophet muhammad (pbuh) said:
"Beware of the minor sins which are often thought as insignificant, for they are like a group of people who stopped in the bottom of a valley. One of them brought a piece of wood, and another brought the same, until they had gathered enough to cook their food. These minor sins, if a person is called to account for them, will destroy him”.
According to another report, He said:
“Beware of minor sins, for they will pile up until they destroy a person”. (Reported by Ahmad: saheeh al-jami, 2686-2687).
Really I don’t want to carry this argumentation (but I rather called it as ‘religion discussion’) into extreme, because I am sacred you will think that as if I am trying to find a ‘defect’ in your religion. And as I said, in this discussion, I am NOT here to win, but to reveal the truth of our religion by providing “proof and evidences”. NOT by “trying to find the defects of one religion so that the other religion may seems appear to be glittering and shinning in the end!”.
Let me emphasize back, what our beloved prophet has said:
“When you are debating (discussing) about something, the intention of the debate should be seeking for the truth, NOT for winning”. (I think, by now you should have understood this statement, and NOT trying to make another kind of perversion again on it!)
I am not angry with you, and I respect your superb thoughts and opinions. It’s just my heart burn when you manipulated the quotation of our beloved prophet, and “confidently” thought that you have made a “right conclusion” based on your FALSE thought! What you said and did could distort the image of our prophet and religion (if I was not given a chance to speak of the truth!). Not believing Allah the almighty is one thing! But attack against our beloved prophet (in any ways: direct/indirect) is just like attacking the whole ummah (muslims)!
If it was just your “doubt” of our religion, then I could have tolerate with you, for our religion does encourage its ummah to have doubt, and NOT to accept everything with blind imitation because it can lead to astray. Having ‘doubt’ may build a felling of wanting to seek for answers that may convey them to the truth in the end. There are many cases in which the Non-believers had doubt in their heart- then, seek for answers- when they discovered the truth, they embraced islam. But had you ‘really have doubt’ in the first place , you would have asked for further explanations from me before making that firm FALSE conclusion, (As how I had doubted your verses of holy book, then asking for further explanations from you).
ethics of argumentation in islam:
1)argument should focus on its subject matter, NOT the person involved in the argument.
2)Argumentation should stick firmly to morality and good manners.
3)Argumentation should be concluded with peace NOT enmity and hostility.
your “subject” is about truth or lies right?
Here you go! :
“it is those who believe not in the ‘ayat’ (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs revelations, etc) of Allah, who FABRICATE FALSEHOOD, and it is they who are LIARS” (Quran 16: 105)
“and grievous is the chastisements they (incur), because they lied to (themselves)” (Quran 2:10)
“woe to every sinful liars” (Quran 45:7)
“….and shun the word that is false.” (Quran 22:30)
Umm Kalthum the daughter of ‘Uqba reported that Allah messenger (pbuh) said:
“a great liars are not the one who makes peace between the people by inventing good information of saying what is good.” (Bukhari and Muslim)
in a muslim’s version she added: “I had not heard him i.e. prophet (pbuh) giving license for anything people say falsely except in three matters: war, making peace between people, and what a man says to his wife and her wife says to her husband”.
Bahz Ibn hakin, on his father’s authority, said that his grandfather reported Allah’s messenger (pbuh) as saying:
“woe be to him who tells things, speaking falsely, to make the people laugh, woe to him! Woe to him!”
Some of the major tribulations of human existence are the consequences of committing sins and spreading the evil into the world. According to the moral scale of islam, it is known that men is imperfect and fallible and prone to committing to sins. This is part of his innate weak nature as a finite limited creature. HOWEVER, “it is a sin” if he has the ways and means to attain relative moral perfection and deliberately chooses not to seek it.
To cut things short, i enjoy this discussion talk with you, and I hope we may get some knowledge on it, because you gave me some knowledge about your religion. And our religion does emphasized its ummah (people) to respect the religion of others, even though we don’t adopt them, for we give freedom in religion, as we believe ‘let there be no compulsion in religion’. I respect your religion and I’m hoping for you to be the same too. Your religion is your religion; my religion is my religion, for you have your own belief as I adhere firmly to my own true belief.
Let me end this fruitful religion discussion with a quotation of our beloved prophet Muhammad (pbuh):
“Truthfulness leads to righteous and righteous leads to paradise. A man speaks the truth and makes truth his object until he is written as eminently truthful. Falsehood leads to wickedness and wickedness leads to hell-fire, and a man speaks falsehood and makes falsehood his object until he is written as a great liar.” (Bukhari and Muslim).
Quoted:
"Peace"
--------> u'r Right! (Thumbs up)
---------------where there is friendship, there is NO 'hurt feelings':)--------------------