quoted:
Lying comes in different forms. some people even classify them.
Perjury, Bluffing, Misleading, lying by omission, white lie, emergency lie, and so on.
----> welldone (thumbs up). i gree with you. and this confirm what our prophet said: "most of the sins commited by the son of Adam are resulted from their "TONGUE"..."
regardless its perjury, bluffing, misleading...etc, but the root is one- TONGUE!
quoted:
"Thomas Aquinas divided lies into three kinds: the useful, the humorous and the malicious. All are sinful according to Aquinas. Humorous and useful lies, however, are venial sins. Malicious lies are mortal sins."
-----> in our religion, there is no such things as venial or mortal sins of lying. because laying is forbidden and sinful, and what sin is sin! however, according to our prophet, "anything (any info) that is 'not true' is regarded as lie, except in 3 matters":
1) War
2) when we want to breed a good relationship among the two contention. (eg: when 2 families are fighting, so we may act as a middle person to say the good things to both sides, so that it may overcome their hatred.... and the motif is not to lie, but to "breed a good outcome" / or to joint back the family... infect, it is not called as lie at all for it is already being excluded from lie.
3) what a husband say to his wife and what the wife says to his husband (especially in poligamy).
PS: in this 3 situation, it is not consider as a lie, because the motif is to reach for the "better outcome". in our religion, one of the aspects that we really pay a great attention is our "intention", as prophet said: "in everything you do, the most important thing is you "intention".- it means, in everything we do (in a legal way), it should goes parallel with good intention, only then God will be pleased by what we do.
those 3 matters are excluded from lie, not done just for the sake of fun! but this is the tolerance in islam. there is a high level of tolerance in islam for the "ease of their ummah" (people) and what may "suit with the situation".
your religion consider that as a lie. but we dont consider that as a lie, and it is not a sin at all, for our religion understand and tolerate with that level of "usefulness". infect, our religion, strictly forbid its ummah to lie just for the sake of making people laugh! because we do take lie matters seriously when it is not useful at all!
quoted:
You can’t make two wrongs to make it right. There is no exclusions in making sins not even lawyers “they are the great practitioner of this skill”
---> yes i agree with you. lawyers are good at perversion. and this confirm what our prophet said: "among all lawers (or judgers), only 1/3 will enter paradise". (this is because they are not sincere in holding their responsibility).
what i meant to maxi was, i did studied law, BUT i dont use it to make perversion and lie to people as what most lawyers and judgers do, i ONLY use it for the sake of seeking the thruth or revealing the truth.
BUT, you misunderstood my statemnet by thinking that: "i 'used that lie tactic' in seeking for the truth"....
but you are wrong dear! what i meant is, lawyers may have many abilities and talents to speak, but they misuse this god's gift for lying to people, so that the guilt are protected.
but what our beloved prophet has taught us to do is: NOT to misuse that God's gift of talents for the ease of lying, BUT to use it for 'seeking the truth or supporting the innocent'-revealing the truth. NOT to use that talents to lie to people so that the guilt are protected and the wrong are hidden! get me?? our prophet never teach us to "make two wrongs to make it right." i guess its you who misunderstood the statement honey.
quoted:
We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood. 1John 4:6
---->i am sure, not even one person in this world who are free from the sins of lieing. our religion believes that human have sins of lieing because human is to err, only prophets are protected from sins, because if they are the same as us (sinful), then they are not qualified to be labelled as prophets and be a role model of us. but whenever we make sins, we are asked to seek for forgiveness and repent as our beloved prophet muhammad (pbuh) said:
"all human make mistakes, but the best among us are those who repent."
but i wonder, what are you trying to highlight in that verse of your book? are you saying that those christian who lie, doesnt folow their religion and vice verca? if thats the case, then pls point me to one christian who never ever dever lie in whole of his/her life??
---------------where there is friendship, there is NO 'hurt feelings':)--------------------
hello maximoo, kamoustaka?
quoted:
Lying comes in different forms. some people even classify them.
Perjury, Bluffing, Misleading, lying by omission, white lie, emergency lie, and so on.
----> welldone (thumbs up). i gree with you. and this confirm what our prophet said: "most of the sins commited by the son of Adam are resulted from their "TONGUE"..."
regardless its perjury, bluffing, misleading...etc, but the root is one- TONGUE!
quoted:
"Thomas Aquinas divided lies into three kinds: the useful, the humorous and the malicious. All are sinful according to Aquinas. Humorous and useful lies, however, are venial sins. Malicious lies are mortal sins."
-----> in our religion, there is no such things as venial or mortal sins of lying. because laying is forbidden and sinful, and what sin is sin! however, according to our prophet, "anything (any info) that is 'not true' is regarded as lie, except in 3 matters":
1) War
2) when we want to breed a good relationship among the two contention. (eg: when 2 families are fighting, so we may act as a middle person to say the good things to both sides, so that it may overcome their hatred.... and the motif is not to lie, but to "breed a good outcome" / or to joint back the family... infect, it is not called as lie at all for it is already being excluded from lie.
3) what a husband say to his wife and what the wife says to his husband (especially in poligamy).
PS: in this 3 situation, it is not consider as a lie, because the motif is to reach for the "better outcome". in our religion, one of the aspects that we really pay a great attention is our "intention", as prophet said: "in everything you do, the most important thing is you "intention".- it means, in everything we do (in a legal way), it should goes parallel with good intention, only then God will be pleased by what we do.
those 3 matters are excluded from lie, not done just for the sake of fun! but this is the tolerance in islam. there is a high level of tolerance in islam for the "ease of their ummah" (people) and what may "suit with the situation".
your religion consider that as a lie. but we dont consider that as a lie, and it is not a sin at all, for our religion understand and tolerate with that level of "usefulness". infect, our religion, strictly forbid its ummah to lie just for the sake of making people laugh! because we do take lie matters seriously when it is not useful at all!
quoted:
You can’t make two wrongs to make it right. There is no exclusions in making sins not even lawyers “they are the great practitioner of this skill”
---> yes i agree with you. lawyers are good at perversion. and this confirm what our prophet said: "among all lawers (or judgers), only 1/3 will enter paradise". (this is because they are not sincere in holding their responsibility).
what i meant to maxi was, i did studied law, BUT i dont use it to make perversion and lie to people as what most lawyers and judgers do, i ONLY use it for the sake of seeking the thruth or revealing the truth.
BUT, you misunderstood my statemnet by thinking that: "i 'used that lie tactic' in seeking for the truth"....
but you are wrong dear! what i meant is, lawyers may have many abilities and talents to speak, but they misuse this god's gift for lying to people, so that the guilt are protected.
but what our beloved prophet has taught us to do is: NOT to misuse that God's gift of talents for the ease of lying, BUT to use it for 'seeking the truth or supporting the innocent'-revealing the truth. NOT to use that talents to lie to people so that the guilt are protected and the wrong are hidden! get me?? our prophet never teach us to "make two wrongs to make it right." i guess its you who misunderstood the statement honey.
quoted:
We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood. 1John 4:6
---->i am sure, not even one person in this world who are free from the sins of lieing. our religion believes that human have sins of lieing because human is to err, only prophets are protected from sins, because if they are the same as us (sinful), then they are not qualified to be labelled as prophets and be a role model of us. but whenever we make sins, we are asked to seek for forgiveness and repent as our beloved prophet muhammad (pbuh) said:
"all human make mistakes, but the best among us are those who repent."
but i wonder, what are you trying to highlight in that verse of your book? are you saying that those christian who lie, doesnt folow their religion and vice verca? if thats the case, then pls point me to one christian who never ever dever lie in whole of his/her life??
---------------where there is friendship, there is NO 'hurt feelings':)--------------------