AFC asks FIFA to reschedule WC 2022 to winter

gadarene,

this bloody whole world is running on “fishy mode” and money is the core motor.

so hopeless this humankind who will end up destroying itself because of its greed and avid thirst for wealth and power ;(

Pre December 2nd:- Qatar will host the World Cup ON IT'S OWN.(this claim made when it was suggested that a joint GCC bid might make more sense in terms of logistics.)

Qatar will air-condition ALL stadia hosting the games.

PostDec. 2nd:- "Qatar's neighbours might host some of the games/some of the teams." from Mr.Blatter himself...

"the 2022 tournament can be held in the winter to accommodate Qatar" Franz Beckenbauer,supported by Michel Platini...now correct me if i'm wrong but if this doesn't seem like something fishy is going on,i don't know what does...complete about-turn in statements...

Future designs visualize... air ducts as utilities along with Water line, TSE, QTEL, piped gas and security camera lines under Roads...

Such a simplistic way. I wonder why anyone else (including Qatar) have not thought about it. That would have saved the planet a lot in green gases emissions.

The cooling could happen some place else... just the cool air would be pumped underground into the stadiums.... like Qatar Cool pumps air to the Pearl.

Constructing indoor aircooled/air conditioned Football stadium is not a big deal for Qatar.... after the games the stadium might remain.... only the cooling no longer be pumped to the Stadium.... easily done by a valve ....

Nothing is impossible...

Pushkin,

Do you mean, more Russians to permanently live in Qatar?

Because the real challenge will be how to deal with the void that will be left after 2022.

just bring more russians to help

Painther,

I am addressing a few concerns that are ought to take place in the near future.

One is the massive development (for any country's size, let alone a country of the size of Qatar) versus its small population, which will cause Qataris to loose even more control over their country than they have already lost;

The other issue is what is going to happen to Qatar right after 2022, when all infrastructures are completed and overbuilt for a country of the size of Qatar;

And finally on the medium term, the need for carbon fuels will decrease (not necessarily the raw material itself) which will lower its price and therefore the income of countries like Qatar.

With a lower income, lower expat and migrant population, massive overdesigned infrastructures, Qatar will face difficulties in just maintaining itself.

A pessimistic view? I would say, one that should be carefully studied by Qatar, now!

Genesis,

There is always needed the input from certain statutory bodies already unable to respond with the needed speed.

I don’t believe that the current Qatari population is sufficient to be everywhere it will be needed, not only to control the pre construction stage, but also the construction stage and ultimately to maintain the finished infrastructures without a huge dependence from a huge foreign population.

I don’t think that any society with like to see themselves in that scenario, including Qatar.

Oryx, sorry for the delay:

"Norway has been touted as the ideal blueprint for Scotland to base their fixture schedule on as they completely bypass the winter weather. The Norwegian schedule recently finished in November and their new campaign won't kick off again until early next March."

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=850420&sec=scotland&root=scotland&cc=4716

Your hypothesis (what if O&G runs out) is based on a future event which will occur in very distant future, a century or atleast many decades. Now scenerio is not what they’ll do after that, scenerio is what they’ll do till then…..so here they are, rightly – showing their presence at world stage in big way, whatever way they feel the can !

Again, I appreciate them; this is the ‘right’ way to use the wealth!!!!

Although, nothing is revealed yet. But it seems that there is a possibility that none of the government authorities take part of the infrastructure development needed for the 2022 World cup. I think Companies like QD & QF would take a leading role With the assistance from their joint ventures.

Just last week Qatar Holding (QH) bought a 9.1% stake in Germany's largest construction company, Hochtief for €400m , Reuters has reported. As part of the deal, Hochtief is to locate its Middle East headquarters in the Qatari capital, train local staff, and run a research and development facility. It was also reported that only 4 bn will be allocated for the development of stadiums out of the pledged $100bn.

Painther,

The figure of 350 000, was not a prediction, I referred to it as an estimated current Qatari native population.

The math is easy to calculate.

Just at this moment (forget about future mega projects), if you take the Qatari native population (30%) into account and exclude the temporary one (70%), Qatar has already overbuilt for the next 5 to 10 years. The Qatari population can no longer be in charge of their country on its own.

They only have two choices:

- To maintain control, develop in accordance with the population growth;

- If they choose to overdevelop (which somebody did) then expect to either share the country with a majority of foreigners and in this case to justify for the long term the overdevelopment, to start an immigration policy just like other new nations (Canada, Australia, etc...).

If they overdevelop counting only on Qataris as full rights citizens and a floating transitional population of migrant workers and expats, this society will never mature as this last group comes here to collect salary and leave. The minute oil and gas runs out, they will stop coming here and the over development will be just too much to be handled by Qatari only.

Can you see what will happen in this scenario?

Nic while i like your logics in general but here I see sheer pessimistic approach to the scenario which will happen after 12 years. They (Qatar) have achieved whatever they planned sofar and I think it’s comparatively more sustainable than other equals. In the same logic, if they plan something big in future they’ll achieve that too.

Your assumption, on managing such gigantic works (is that really gigantic???? Mere 50 Bn in 12 years. hardly 4 Bn per year????) and population mix are, it seems, based on fantasy, you even missed population growth in future (exponential not linear).

As far post event utilization of infrastructure, that will serve their country and obviously be in line with their future needs.

I find they are using their wealth in right cause and betterment of their citizen (directly) and other people (indirectly) instead saving it and buying leisure islands !!!

I find they are using their wealth in right cause and betterment of their citizen (directly) and other people (indirectly) instead saving it and buying leaisure islands !!!

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Raven1968,

I agree with you, their small population cannot handle emigration, customs, police, and statutory bodies and at the same time "run" all these projects or at least exercise control over those who run these projects.

If their identity has been at risk, being 30% of the population, imagine when they'll become 10 or 15%?

All that overstress, will impact on the Qatari society, not sure if they are expecting and wanting it!

All that just for 1 month in 2022, and after that we'll see here in Doha, what Dubai is going through now: empty building everywhere and underutilized expensive infrastructures that will cost a fortune to maintain and will never pay the investment.

Once oil and gas will loose its current importance, Doha will not be able to afford the maintenance of all the built infrastructure and the result won’t be nice to witness ;(

I wonder if the FIFA officials have thought of anything of this! Obviously not!

Nic some very good points raised, and will be interesting at the least to see how Qatar copes with this. I have a feeling they don't realise what an enormous task is ahead of them.

Raven1968,

Besides all the obvious difficulties, where on earth Qatar will get enough qualified and competent "locals in charge" to ensure that massive infrastructure projects will be carried out in accordance with all requirements:

- Airport and related infrastructures;

- Cross Bay Tunnel;

- Bridge to Bahrain;

- Metro System;

- High Speed Railway System;

- Major road network improvement;

- Stadiums and related infrastructures;

- Hotels and Housing

All the above to be built at the same time and to be used for 1 month only!

(Qatar should not forget and be honest in reporting facts, that its population is only around 350 000. All the rest are migrant workers and expats who are not part of the permanent Qatari society!)

Where on earth the Qatari authorities and statutory bodies are equipped to license and supervise this gigantic amount of major construction projects?

If it’s already the mess we see today, imagine how this city will become when all these projects will take place at pretty much the same time?!

It will be guaranteed chaos!

Nic totally agree mate, FIFA has just showen how corrupt or inept they are, the voting structure needs a complete overhaul....Qatar now cannot allow this bid to fail, I personally think they have over promised without any proof they can deliver, they have no infrastructure, no stadia, just money, but as the PRO supporters say we have 12 years...

Raven1968,

The irresponsibility shown by those who decided shows how little they know about this country. How drunken they were by artist's impressions and perhaps some other $timulant$!

Is the world going to witness in silence and accept these convenient post-award changes of the bidding rules, to justify a dangerous and risky non sense choice?

The WC voting system, like many other things in FIFA, definitely needs an urgent update!

Nic this is seriously funny, the FIFA team had Qatar as high risk because of the heat, they knew the date of the WC, Qatar assured FIFA they had the answers and now this...you got the quote bang on mate!

Raven1968,

Expect the amazing ugliness to be gradually unveiled!

OK this is hilarious, before Qatar won the bid all the PRO supporters and the bid committee were saying, NO PROB with the weather, we have the solution A/C the stadiums (even though they didn't have a full size stadium as a working model), but hey we have 12 years...now theres talk about shifting the dates because it is too hot, WTF??? What happened to your so called A/C solution Qatar? With all the money involved in the Euro Leagues a shift of date just won't happen, there would be a massive backlash from the clubs and advertisers if the league seasons were messed around with. Face it Qatar you won the bid now deliver what you promised, the world is watching!!

s_isale

That’s why I said:

"Can’t wait until the planet runs out of oil and gas..."

Stop being conveniently selective. It’s not the west and it’s not the east, its bloody human ugly nature in its wild form!

don’t you think that dividing the world between west and east, good and bad is a silly paradigm, when human nature (regardless their religious facades/masks) is in fact the ultimate cause for all evil?

What a world we live in ;(

Can’t wait until the planet runs out of oil and gas, its killing the universal values!

Wait and see how many projects the big French contractors will get out of the Qatar 2022. As an appetizer the Qatari government “offered” with no public tender the Barwa Financial District to a major French contractor, just after a some "private talks" between the French president and his lovely wife and the Qatari officials.

Corruption at high levels, how on earth people can be motivated to work hard towards success when "short cuts" like this is ruling the world!

here is the French pay back - part II:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101210/ap_on_sp_so_ne/soc_wcup2022_platini_2

what universal values???

That Shell infiltrates Nigerian govt at all levels.

Pfizer test its new medicines on Afrians without the citizens themselves knowing.

British Aerospace gives millions in bribes to bag contracts?

Visa and Mastercard arm twist their respective govt to achieve favourable conditions in other countries.

These are the values that the west so naturally covets.

First they'll buy up as many European leagues as they can afford to, and then gradually they'll change the schedules. In 12 years time we'll have a WC in January.

lying appears endemic to arab culture.

I think thats economical option too, to shift timings in qatari winters. artificial cooling of stadia & fan zones would cost a fortune and it can easily be saved, even some part of it can be "used" in changing pattern of some major leagues in next 12 yrs..

I think thats economical option too, to shift timings in qatari winters. artificial cooling of stadia & fan zones would cost a fortune and it can easily be saved, even some part of it can be "used" in changing pattern of some major leagues in next 12 yrs..

Qhris,

Your "Qatar World Cup Bidding Guide" seems to be taking its shape:

1st suggested adjustment by AFC General Secretary Peter Velappan: “reschedule the 2022 World Cup in Qatar to the winter months of January or February to avoid the desert state's sweltering heat.”

2nd suggested adjustment by FIFA president Sepp Blatter: “Qatar could have neighboring countries host games”

Keep alert for many more to come in a near future before 2022!

hi

One- I do not believe there is any technical problem that money can't solve. Yes, that is a belief andyou can attack it.

Two- People have lived, died, eaten, run, had babies, etc before air conditioning was invented.

Three- I love sporting events where the elements play a factor. It favors upsets, it creates drama, it shows who is more intelligent, it favors ME, Asia, and African teams that train appropriately. Man against Nature is the greatest story ever told.

I am an American and I say Allah be praised and Qatar was the most interesting bid- if not the best.

Loooking forward to every minute!

Some players are paid obscene amounts...Come 2022 the players will really have to "work hard for the money" :)

how was temp in 1994 ? Russia lost to brazil 2-0 because of the heat and high temp :(

I don't know what PMSL means but the cartoon is hilarious.....

PMSL .... Brilliant and neccessary ..

Qhris, no idea...I don't get involved in Qatar's affairs. ;)

Isn't there something here where workers have to go home if it is officially recorded as over 50c, so they always announce it as 49c or below, to keep people working?

Or it that just a rumour that I heard?

If so, it's no wonder that this 'official' temp of 40 has been pulled from somewhere....

Today, WC..... Tomorrow.....

And this is a good one for 2018

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/?cartoon=8118896&cc=8104044

Quote " Qatar's summer temperature can top 40 Celsius (104 Fahrenheit)."

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1491717#ixzz17cUbFAkG

Ya, and that would be on a cool day. It was way over 50 Celsius in the shade last summer.

Step One: present futuristic bid.

Step Two: make any promises neccessary to win the bid.

Step Three: change the promises and everything that won you the bid.

Step Four: laugh at the World's stupidity in believing your lies.

Well WK - thank you. Then with over 10 years to go....then surely a Winter World Cup wouldn't be a bad idea in light of the fact the weather is freezing now in lots of Europe

German Bundesliga winter break - 3 Weeks

Spanish La Liga & Serie A - I think 2 weeks, can be wrong

As WK pointed out,how come Mr. Velappan didn't voice these concerns BEFORE the bids were decided...could it have anything at all to do with the nationality of his boss,AFC president Mohammed Bin Hammam?...just a thought...what do i know?...

After the last World Cup....makes me wonder if some of these European teams would qualify anyway LOL

Could you tell me how long the winter breaks are in some countries??? thanks

@ baldrick,good point but that's only IF they implement that winter break for which the league schedule will pretty much have to be turned on it's head,i mean,they would need at least close to two months off?...close to a month for pre-tournament training & acclimatization(& how!)& then a month for the tournament itself...seems like a lot of time...

@ pilgram,whoa! you had me scared there...thought he bit you or something!!! :)...

Well look at the snow now in Northern Europe.... its not easy for the players and for the fans getting to the games.

Look at the weather here....brilliant!

Where did the Manchester United team come and train when Carrington froze over?

they have over a decade to maybe consider what looks that could be a mutually beneficial arrangement....

Brit, why not. There are moves afoot to have a winter break, as they already have in a lot of northern European countries as it's too damned cold to play there!!!

WK,

Maybe somebody didn't provide him with something ;)

it would be interesting to know the technology they use for air cooling the stadiums.

i remember, they said..'air cooled' and not air conditioning.

if finally its air conditioning, it will be a reverse heat-pump effect and would further increase the temperature just outside the stadiums all around. in that case, its not going to be eco-friendly..

"FIFA is not considering changing the dates of the 2022 World Cup in Qatar despite fears the intense heat poses a serious health risk if the tournament is played in summer.

FIFA general secretary Jerome Valcke said Monday that he accepts "worries about the heat are legitimate" but adds that the intention remains "to play this World Cup in June."

Before the World Cup vote, FIFA's technical report labeled Qatar's heat a "potential health risk."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2010-12-06-3006505970_x.htm

What I don't understand is, what changed in the last week.. If peter Velappan had these concerns then he should have voiced them out before 2nd December. What changed in the past week that he came out and said that Football can't be played in Qatar during June & July.. Did someone just provide him meteorological data

I know. Guess there going to have to suck it up and come to Qatar in July and sweat to death with the rest of us poor saps.

Pilgram,

I agree with you, unfortunately the WC is usually organized around the European Leagues championship schedules (the main income for FIFA), thus being in June/July. That was also an imposed condition before the bid.

It wouldn't necessarily need to be moved to right now...even having it in April or May would be better than June, July or August.

LP,

at least here there wont be the gravity problem. its less one technical risk to worry about ;)

Moving it will cause too many issues for European leagues...

Can't see it happening..

Pilgram,

Lol... lets us not get blind by the celebrations, the facts are still there to be tackled and a lot will be written on the issue, perhaps not here in QL or Qatar, but any where else where there is a bit more freedom of expression.

Sure, Nic.

LP,

I meant inside lunar capsules fully air-conditioned and gravity-proof ;)

The risk is similar in the sense that people will survive, as long as they remain in the capsules!

But if there is technical problem with theses capsules, things can turn nasty.

Obviously you Fifa "know it all's" are Qatar haters. You should stop discussing this subject and simply tow the country line and never ever discuss anything of any relevanc....Woah, sorry guys, I think I was just possessed by the ghost of Flor...:-S

Cooling Stadiums....a dozen of them in hot summer ? Imagine the energy needed...

Agreed , you can afford it but whose money is it anyway ? No one earned it, you just happen to sit on top of the liquid gold and have plenty of firtile imagination how to squander that money while the most of the world is starving.

LP,

I believe that FIFA it self was not bribed, perhaps only some of the 22 individual voters were "influenced". I am sure that it will be very difficult to find any trace of that "influence".

The irresponsibility of not measuring the consequences is what surprised the world. Air-conditioning stadiums represents a huge health risk in this region in the summer months. Any exposure to the natural weather conditions during those month are a high risk on its own, similar to organizing the event in lunar capsules.

I must disagree with your analogy, nic. On the moon the low gravity will make it impossible. Have you ever seen astronauts 'run' on the moon? They would jump 200 meters far.

Six FIFA members were corrupt according to the thread on corruption. (One in four). Maybe that explains it.

LP,

The consequences of the choice, were not adequately measured, thought of and were irresponsible.

The criteria was wrong.

Somebody (with no GCC experience) got drunk on futuristic artists' impressions!

There is also a remark from a Qatari official, saying: do they really believe we will cool all the stadias? That's a severe statement.

I agree with him.

To be honest, anyone who has been in Qatar in June / July would have to agree.

He goes on to say ,"Qatar is a nice country ... but there is no way football can be played in June and July there. No player will ever want to play in these conditions,'' he told The Associated Press. ''I would strongly recommend that FIFA reschedule the tournament to January, February. ... FIFA is obliged to do everything possible to provide the best for the teams and the football fans."

http://ndtv.footballindia.com/news/AFC_official_urges_FIFA_to_reschedule_2022_World_Cup/news-2010-december-news_20101209_347/news_article.aspx