This just in: Qataris Don't Cause Accidents!

Hopefully the OP will be able to resolve this differing statements issue with the police/courts successfully. I find it difficult to understand how a report could have been filed (and seemingly closed) without both statements being included.

These sorts of events give me even more reason as to why im headed back home , good luck in the case as as somebody mention earlier take it further with a higher ranking officer

Without imagination their is nothing!

Well said.. This type of change comes with education and enforcement.

When we grew up, no one had heard of child seats. It was only when the dangers were highlighted repeatedly and legislation passed / enforced for shild seats that most fell into line..

I think perhaps you all misunderstood. I do not agree that it is alright for kids to be without car seat, quite the opposite. I have car seats for both cars for convenience to ensure that if my little one is with another member of the famly he will be in his car seat.

I also agree that it is reckless but my previous post was meant only to shed a little light on the situation here. Why is smoking more socially acceptable here? Why is it normal to see men and men holding hands? or kids still in the park playing until 1am.

I am not comparing in any way suggesting that some of these reasons carry the magnitude of endangering a child, but I do think we will do very little to educate people on the safety of their children by calling them morons and idiots.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

house_atreides... i wish you good luck... becuase it looks like you will need it.

please, keep us posted of how it goes. i have spoke my mind about it and got a few angry responses... as if i was based just on my private opinions and not on an outrageous event as you are describing.

good luck!

Where did this thread start and wgere is it going ??

Why would anybody in thier right mind think it ok, especially here, or anywhere in the world, it ok not to have kids protected?

Go to Landmark Mall underground car park. There you will see an advert for Raha Recovery service, featuring a smiling Arab family, all of whom are without seatbelts.

I don't know why it is the case, but the local population don't see the dangers of driving fast, driving too close, driving erratically, and driving without seatbelts.

When I first arrived here, I assumed you couldn't buy child seats, but you can. I wince every time I see an unrestrained kid, when I know they'll be thrown through the windscreen at any collision above 50kph.

Of course, no one thinks they're going to have a crash. But I guess every Qatari family must have lost a member to a road traffic accident, and still they take no precautions.

Maybe it could be explained by bravado mixed with surrendering yourself to fate. Or maybe it's a sick humour. Who knows.

Anyway, back on topic, I was rear-ended by a Qatari (ooer, missus) when I first arrived. The guy fessed up to the police, even though he could have pushed the blame onto me. Some guys are honest, and some aren't. Just like everywhere.

It would be helpful if there were a few more English and Hindi/Urdu speakers in the police though. Getting one side of the story is always going to lead to errors. But since a lot of Qataris join the police because it's one of the few places you can work without completing high school, extra languages aren't really going to be in abundance.

You forget to mention all those little kids running riot in the car..sticking their heads of sunroofs and window..and so on..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

OK. Thanks again for your thoughts.

Here's the latest news on my case. The officer attending the accident was not the same officer who took the statements. The other driver made his statement the same day. My statement was made the next day (due to my hospitalization after the accident). The report was filed and entered into the court system computer prior to my statement being made. Once entered, the report cannot be altered except by action of the court.

So effectively, my statement was not heard or received prior to the police determining blame.

There were some other serious gaps in logic as I talked to the attending officer. Apparently if you don't brake before a collision so that there are no skid marks, it doesn't meant that you weren't paying attention, it just means that you weren't speeding.

And if you claim to NOT hit a dog they don't believe you. Why would anyone be traveling slow enough NOT to hit something?

Apparently, there will be an automatic court date set to decide this issue. So, I'll move on to insurance and see how the next chapter of this saga looks.

It's funny, but even my own parent's generation (not 'my' parents) look at me wide eyed when I insist that my kids be buckled up in booster/carseats etc. They have this 'oldfashioned' idea that just because nothing happened to them and to us (their kids) that their grandchildren should be exempt from possible harm.

The reality is that the ones that payed the ultimate price, with their lives and / or that of their kids, are simply not 'living' to impart their wisdom on us fools that think..............."it only happens to someone else...."

Adults don't want to use seatbelts, fine; but kids should not have to pay the price for the ignorance of adults that don't value safety. And don't give me the excuse that car seats cost too much. A car costs alot, not a car seat. I wouldn't buy a car that doesn't have power windows........like many people here have cars that cost an absolute fortune..........and yet.....their kids don't have car seats.

It's ironic.

I agree, there was a time in North America, Europe, and other places when seatbelts and car seats for children were not mandatory - however, countries in the Gulf have been very quick to acquire other policies/procedures/products/services - why is it not possible to learn from the mistakes already made by others?

This could also apply to environmental issues as well - new technology, improved infrastructure and even airconditioning have been adopted very quickly and enthusiastically - including regular medical care for children and the population as a whole - why not car seats and seatbelts?

That's fine Amoud...don't learn from the hundreds of thousands of adults and children that have died from not wearing seatbelts...this country must learn it on their own. Good for them. Trust no one.

I agree with you Mary Catherine, but I dont think I fully agree with the fact that people here do not value their children. I do remember a time back in Canada when seat belts and car seats were not mandatory, and guess what? We didnt use them. Heck, most cars didnt have seat belts installed if I remember correctly, and I also recall often catching lifts in the back of my Dads pickup truck.

Qatar is catching on, finally making seat belts (albeit only in the front seats) mandatory as well as not allowing children under 10 in the front seat. I know that from our perspective this is not nearly enough but it is a step in the right direction.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

Well said Mary Cathrine. :) After so many years here, I still cannot understand how people can still not use carseats for their kids. It's beyond me.

...if driving schools provide as theory preventive/safety/defensive courses, which I doubt regarding the upper facts/statistics and my daily traffic experience. I took some hours to Al Rayah Dr.School and I asked ab this matter one of my trainers (I had 4). He said "in the traffic exam don't forget to keep 5 m from your front car, in order to see the back wheels"..this was all. I don't know how we can adjust a safe distance in this traffic, really! BTW, on Ambulances is written "Keep 10 m distance", does smbdy care? Just got from one study about-"Stopping Sight Distance (SSD) is the viewable distance required for a driver to see so that he or she can make a complete stop in the event of an unforeseen hazard. SSD is made up of two components: (1) Braking Distance and (2) Perception/Reaction Time" -that a car traveling at 60 km/hr can stop in 100 meters on dry weather...pretty much, isn't it? And true, not only in this case, but for a secure traffic it's not enough only the sight distance and driving experience, some more good sense and respect for others is mandatory!

Even if the OP stopped suddenly and unexpectedly, if the driver behind him was driving responsibly i.e. paying attention, leaving an adequate space between himself and the vehicle in front, there should be adequate time/distance to stop safely.

A big problem in the Gulf is that vehicles follow other vehicles much too closely for any margin of safety or error.

That being said, in 10 years, I've seen many drivers just stop, in the middle of the road - not pulling over, to order tea from teashops or to get someone from a small grocery to come out and take their order. This happened to me last Thursday morning in front of a school, the driver stopped dead in the middle of the road to allow a student (perhaps 10 or ll years old) out in the middle of the street. That being said, the child wasn't wearing a seatbelt either - which speaks volumes to me on how many people value (or don't) their children in this part of the world.

As an aside to the latter comment - I've heard explanations that fate will determine when our time has come - however, that doesn't stop them getting medical care, vaccinations etc. when the child is ill. My response always is, fate has provided you with the option of seatbelts and carseats - it's up to us to use them as we do medicines and other facilities to protect ourselves and our families to the best of our abilities.

Based on the support many of you have given, I went back to M.Khalifa but got told to come back after 1 pm to meet a certain man. I had to work so I'll try to follow up tomorrow.

I will keep you posted.

Some other thoughts on your postings:

Statistics from bleu and dracula: Even if only 41% of fatalities are Qatari, they only make up about 15% of the population! Their lethality rate is over 3 times the expat rate! If this country wants to build up its population base then better traffic enforcement is imperative! Without enforcement and penalties, Qatari's feel that they can drive like there's no tomorrow and indeed for them, they might be right!

It's in everyone's interest to have a fair, impartial and just police department. The man who hit me may soon have a young driver in his family (there was a teenage boy in his vehicle) who may just become one of these statistics and with the awareness that his father doesn't have to drive safely.

Secondly, I never said anything about Arabs. I spoke about this country and the way it conducts its affairs. I have met good Qataris and bad Qataris just like people everywhere; but I still maintain that this country is not ready to join the family of developed nations if it can't create a climate of justice, fairness and human rights for all its residents.

Thanks everyone.

Bleu, you just hit the nail on the head ;)

We need to get all you testosterone driven male vehicle operators off the road. I cant believe a few years back the traffic department was trying to solve the road issues by taking away womens licenses.. :)

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"

The Gulf-Times article is mostly inaccurate....

Giving statistics on deaths resulting from accidents, the report states that 81% of those who died in road accidents during the last year were Qatari nationals in the 15-24 age group.

That number "81%" seems so illogical, I would understand it if the article said that "81% of the deaths in the 15-24 age group are Qataris", it's a natural conclusion from them having cars, and non-Qataris in the same age group have less cars.

I would think that the deaths are distributed between 3 or 4 major causes (Teens speeding, Laborers in uncovered pickups, narcotics/drunk drivers ...).

In the QSA report, on page 118, "(V89) MOTOR-OR NONMOTOR-VEHICLE, ACCIDENT: TYPE OF VEHICLE UNSPECIFIED" the numbers are

NationalityTotalFemaleMale

Non-Qataris1419132

Qataris1011289

So the total % of Qataris who died in accidents is 41%, how could the "Qatari nationals in the 15-24 age group" be 81%?

within those 101 Qataris, 67 are between the ages of 10-29 (they would be around 27.6%).

If we count 101 Qataris from 250,000, that gives us 40 per 1,000. If we count 141 non-Qataris from 1,200,000 it gives 12 per 1000.

Qataris have more cars, and drive faster, and that's an issue.

Another valid statistic is that 91.3% of all those vehicular accident deaths are "MALES"

Thexonic, is a very safe and sound driver, i could vouch for him.

Including, when he is my designated driver of my precious truck, when I'm in a drinking spree of sacred spirits. There is no need to blast him out.

I don't wish to punch you, I just wish, for you to visit my confession Booth, we could share many good memoirs...

Cutedog please read the statistics posted by Dracula above , you will realise how stupid your statements are.

http://gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=263171&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

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Listen to Many..Speak to a few.

My father once told me that respect for the truth comes close to being the basis for all morality. "Something cannot emerge from nothing," he said. This is profound thinking if you understand how unstable "the truth" can be.

PM It's odd but its true, all i'm saying is that people need to be more careful and stop showing off, driving is not a game or display on the roads, its a big responsibility.

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Lebanon... the love of my soul!

Mandilulur, I didn't. I just hate the fishy scales I got.

"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

Bleu, just remember, "Many men have tried the spice . . . so many, but none has succeeded." "They tried and failed, all of them?" "Oh, no." She shook her head. "They tried and died."

Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

At the accident it's his fault.

At the police station, it's 50/50

At the court, it's your fault!

PM I mentioned that is what I saw... May be u can include me in it too. I'm not being a hypocrite here, but only if u see me driving like that.

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Lebanon... the love of my soul!

Aight Pope.

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Lebanon... the love of my soul!

ITs true they dont do accidents, accidents are unintentional they happen out of awareness. Where as they are fully aware of what the effects would be of driving irresponsibly, yet they do it.

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Lebanon... the love of my soul!

I'll tell you something, it's your fault: you stopped in the middle of the road.

Next time you want to drive, say the Litany against fear:

I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.

Only I will remain.

(replace fear by GMC Yukon if you want to...)

It's all that spice, I turned completely bleu.

Let the Qatari-Bashing continue.... it's all our fault, we know nothing and will never learn anything.

Go and edit your comment my brother, I personally cant understand or cipher your point of view.

PM an accident is unintentional. But knowing that driving like an idiot will cause some damage and still doing it is not called an accident, its called being irresponsible.

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Lebanon... the love of my soul!

"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

"Giving statistics on deaths resulting from accidents, the report states that 81% of those who died in road accidents during the last year were Qatari nationals in the 15-24 age group."

http://gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=263171&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

I didn't do it!

And I'll not do it again!

I didn't do it!

And I'll not do it again!

After reading your story, and only your side of the story. its a bit like an accident I saw at the Ramada signal. When a guys decided to stop at the traffic light when the light was green and the guy from behind hit him.

So when the police came they charged the guy who stopped and not the one who hit him. So each case can only be treated on its merit.

Have you ever heard the experssion msm in driving terms which is mirror signal monovere. So guess you did not see the guys behind you when you applied your emergency breaks..

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HE WHO DARES WINS

I am sorry for your accident and glad you are ok.

please go back with an arabic speaking chum to help you resolve this.

However i would like to point out that there are travesties of justice and non-sensical rulings in EVERY country....

because a couple of people of one race have caused you problems...is it necessary to call the whole race primitive?

yep driving down the street isn't very safe....but its a lot safer to walk down the street than many cities in Europe.....so who is civilised?

"You would have to punch me and knock me out to drag me into your confession booth!

;-)"

I didn't do it!

And I'll not do it again!

nice suv

LOL , Arian, that's hilarious! Atriedes, I'm glad you are ok. Good Luck, I hope someone can help you out. Keep your good spirits; I know it gets really hard sometimes.

;)

From the photos it certainly looks like you were hit fairly central from behind. If you had just changed lane as claimed wouldn't the impact be off centre to one side or another?

I well remember your Gom Jabbar, Reverand Mother.. I will say no more, but retreat within myself to the place many cannot reach..

You may address me as Reverend Mother.

Mandi

You too ???? Welcome:)

Remember, "We tend to become like the worst in those we oppose." (Bene Gesserit Coda)

Mandi

Only you will understand this my Fremen brother..

"When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles." - Bene Geserit saying

This kind of incident happened last year to a friend of mine. He appealed his case/side to a certain Colonel in the M.kalifa traffic office and the decision of the investigation was reversed in favor of my friend. My friend find out later that the investigating policeman was even a friend of the local guy who bumped him behind. Thanks to the good Colonel!!!.

House atreides, please let us know the outcome!

Mandi

and u cant show respect bcoz u dont have any even for urself

Has anyone bother to pick up the Qatari dog for his exclusive interview with the local Policeman and court date?

I forgot he only speaks ARABIC, so he is good to go in the court day.

With everyone using that bar of soap, you better hope soap is magical.

No sir, you are definitely having right to appeal against that dicision through court they will investigate the matter and thier justice system is totally impartial.

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When the eye becomes the heart, the heart becomes the eye ... Wasif Ali Wasif

you can not get my respect! And many do agree with my view about you!

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

but u shouldnt speak about "the place" as disgusting

while u live here to improve ur life

even it was individual accident whitch i am sorry for

some of ppl take the opportunity to show how much he hates the place

dont keep under stresses go back to ur home

anyway qatar always welcome all the people

show respect first. Specially if you are the host, it is customary to be very polite and courteous to visitors whatever their status in life is.

"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"

"lets just wait... when the oil is over and we all are out of this place... they will probably be back to their camels"

if u dont like "the place" just leave

otherwise show respect.

yes as deedee sa suggested, go to the traffic deprtment with an arabic speaking companion and thank goodness you're fine. don't go their by yourself, you might regret it.

on a lighter side maybe the driver of the yukon just happened to drive that huge SUV for the first time, you know hehehe camels have no brake pedals

=Dura Lex Sed Lex=

In my experience, it's never best to go to the traffic dept., immigration, CID or any other government place without an Arbic speaker. And please have an open attitude. Not all Qataris are arrogant jerks (although you wouldn't know that from QL!) I have met some really really decent ones who have bent over backwards to help me or a friend. Hopefully you will speak with one of those.

Hope everyone was OK.

Maybe expats should just have a "do not drive" day in protest. Then the only people causing accidents can be clearly identified!

I asked our Mandoub about this. He said it would be best for me to go alone (even though I don't know Arabic).

Is he being helpful or lazy?

I'll see where I get to tomorrow...

an impatient local who tried to squeeze thru a tiny gap to get to the lights quicker. I hope I don't get the same response. Good luck with your appeal.

Lol Arien...you said it...

If your company has an expeditor, or someone whos job it is to help expats deal with rps, medical, etc etc, be sure to take him along, or someone who can speak Arabic and translate for you. Good luck

Why am I not surprised this turned out to be your fault??!! Good luck with your appeal - keep us posted as to what happens.

If I were you I'd contest the decision. Go back to the station with your photos and speak to the Colonel or whoever is the highest ranking guy you can find.

Did you Google it first?

I wonder if I will be able to finish my time in this place without punching someone.... some days I dont believe in my own self control... it has been a daily exercise.

I really appreciate the support and advice. It was suggested to me that I go and meet the "Traffic Manager" at Khalifa Traffic Division which I will try to do tomorrow. Not sure what can be done but it's worth the effort.

Thanks too Arien for your wit and humour. It was needed and appreciated.

And yes Carol, I've heard too many stories that just make me realize that I have no protection at all here (like the article in yesterday's newspaper about the Sri Lankan woman who was jailed for 29 months for a 24 month sentence because people "forgot" to even let her attend her own trial!)

And genesis, my statement was not taken by the officer at the scene. The officer at the scene seemed very stressed by the whole situation and I was eventually taken away by Ambulance to HMC. I ended up talking to a Sudanese officer the next day.

I'm not going to make any rash decisions in my emotional state, but the goodwill I had towards this country is quickly crumbling. If they want their country back, I say give it to them; they invited me to come here. I've never been treated so poorly by a host before.

I read somewhere the writer expressed it in this way

'' Camel to Cadilac, overnite''

Dont you think you forget to apply breaks on time??

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Listen to Many..Speak to a few.

nice one carol2008...lol.

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"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"

arien's answer was the best!!!!

lets just wait... when the oil is over and we all are out of this place... they will probably be back to their camels...

well said arien

In response to the title.. Yes agree its not the Qataris but there Cars that cause accidents as there on cruisecontrol all the time..Damm

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HE WHO DARES WINS

"Qatar is really just a clan-based collection of primitive tribes that happens to have a bonanza of gas and oil under its tribal lands. Any attempt to portray itself as advanced or civilized is simply a cosmetic overlay on a failed society."

Very well said. Even the make-up sucks.

Situation like this make me wonder if the money we are making here is really worth it when we have to out up with this place and its "rules".

It is like living in a bubble...a pathectic little world...

I just wish locals admitted that without westerners here this place would still be nothing. No use having all this oil if you dont have a clue how to pump it out.

We should at least be rspected at least how they expect to be respected everywhere else.

Dear house_atreides... I have had some really annoying experiences here but nothing like that. i wish I could give you some actual help on this.

Camels had no breaks.

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Listen to Many..Speak to a few.

why am i not surprised that they blamed you for it....guess you all know the answer to that... glad you're ok though...

Was your report signed by the same policeman who investigated the scene? During that have you verified it wasn’t your fault first hand? If it’s from the back, it’s not your fault…

Glad you're OK...

Strange decision indeed. Usually, if you get hit from the back, then the "other" guy is at fault..

You should try to talk to some legal expert..

Its really obvious that you were hit from behind..I hope that there's someone here in Ql who knows the local law, and will help you thru this...

MySp

Hey..Thats your car???? I live there...

wow...good thing you're physically fine...

"Qatar is really just a clan-based collection of primitive tribes that happens to have a bonanza of gas and oil under its tribal lands. Any attempt to portray itself as advanced or civilized is simply a cosmetic overlay on a failed society."

couldn't agree more with you man!!!

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"The grass is always greener...over the Septic Tank"