Out Patient Department of Hamad Hospital
As a health worker I refer patients(mostly laborers) to Hamad Hospital OPD. Most of them after going to the OPD are ranting that there's no Patient-Doctor interaction, routine assessment and proper treatment given.
To prove their claims I conducted an experiment. I wrote in a referral letter about a patient complaining of recurrent colds & skin allergy but the actual problem is productive cough for 2 weeks.
What I'm trying to test here if the physician will be able to assess the patient well and give the correct diagnosis.
Prescribe a cough syrup & antibiotic instead of anti allergy medication and cold preparation.
Unfortunately, the patient came back with the latter.
What do you think the reason for this kind of problem?
-communication barrier?
-large volume of patients?
-or maybe the doctors are not doing their jobs
Have you experience this kind of treatment before?
I just hope that this example is not happening the whole time in that department.
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We are commending the Ministry of health here as their procedures in authenticating and validating the licenses of expatriates are strict.
Further, though it is the prerogative of HMC Management and other Health Institutions to hire competent and qualified health workers, they have to consider their inherent duties and responsibilities to public as well.
"Adda ti adal na, ngem awan ti sursuro na."
Well i went to our company doctor the other day ....
I could have faked being a doctor better than her...
i didn't even take the perscription.... as i was seriously doubting her abilities....
well scary
they should try and get Dr. House
;)
"Adda ti adal na, ngem awan ti sursuro na."
hi tess_916, i guess not. communication barrier can be solved at hand, the same with the large volume of patients.
I think the problem lies on the Doctors who are not doing their jobs. Maybe they are not equipped nor trained to do such, or they just do not care at all as long as they receive their hefty salaries in full.
"Adda ti adal na, ngem awan ti sursuro na."
That's great DMD, take good care of your health.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
Thanks, kinimoto.
You are in place to help and make littile different by making more sincere to their own health.Poverty is biggest misery ,more are sick they are poor and no access to proper care,some are more sick because they had more .Very serious talk let enjoy and have fun to reduce stress.
your concern is clear and I feel for you..
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
No doubt about Professnalism expected from Doctors should be highest from all ethical standards.Negligence commissioned from them are not excusable.
But my point is as Middle East Workers are neglected
work force by many Employers,Nations and Health Institutions.My only suggestion to them is Health is very complex issue to atke care once it is negleced and many are just dying without care.So sincere request is health worker who are helping them need to make sure that they reach in good hand not only licened practicners.Hope my views are taken not as protecting Doctors rather QL can be forum to generate sensivity to people and professional who should be responsible for health care of workforce living hard life in rich country with poor social security net work for hard to reach people.
I'm not a doctor but I tend care to those who are ill.
You might not able to understand the terms but the sense of responsibility and professionalism applies to all kinds of career, including yours.^_^
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
Read with intrest.I am sure human health is a facinating creation of ALMIGHTY.Difficult to assess,adress and diagnose her/him.You can trace some deviation from norm with pathology,Radiology or Microbiology.Level some case and prscribe tabs,syrups occassionally injectable drugs.
But same acts to some one not for others i same diseases.
There are many systems but not holistic care to satisfy the care demanded by individual.
HMC is Taeching Hospital negligency to supervise junior to work under strict guidance can mislead tothe crissi catstrophy as happen in this situation but generalization can not be fair with one episode.There may be good thing happening for more serious cases.
I want to share to readers to see movies Osulraja in tamil,Munnabhai in Hindi,PatchAdam in English to understand the gap in modern meidicine.So nobody can be better doctor then yourself.Do know first and help doctor to know position better to heal you more.
There is Lost Art of Healing due to Techno face of Medical Growth which keeps Patients and Doctor distance .
So have your own Health Care Provider as family physician's advise first before you go big specialist or corporate hospital as thier objectives are different than our perception of doctors as healers.
With regards to all
hey kinimoto.. are u a doctor or what?
i am not undermining the Doctors here, but it seems that you are even more qualified than them.
Such simple 'experiment' should be an eye-opener for us. Sorry, I cannot add more cause my field is different and \i cannot comprehend those medical lingos. :(
"Adda ti adal na, ngem awan ti sursuro na."
what else is new in HMC ? Missing ,lost files,wrong files... JCI accredited hospital,you must be kidding us.
I had everything done here in the Philippines and I'm okay now.
have you tried in the Medical Records section? or maybe you had a discharge paper, you can use it as a document for them to locate your record.
Hope your illness is not that serious, you have to go to another hospital then for re-evaluation...
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
I also had a bad experience at HMC Emergency dept. My c/c was severe stomach pain. 3 doctors attended to me there, blood/urine tests were done plus an ultrasound. I was admitted and another 3 doctors came to see me. All the 6 doctors just pressed my stomach and nobody were able to diagnose my condition. I was given an IM pain med ONLY when I requested it. I was discharged in the evening (same day) and was asked to come back after 3 days for check-up. I went back...just to find out that I had no record of admittance, no blood/urine tests and ultrasound results!!!!!
most of the doctors from HMC specially the newly grad. or intern who were usually assigned at the different section/ dep't really doesn't know what they are doing that is why there is the hospital rule as per JCI requirement for these intern to call the specialist or consultant doctors for consultation and opinion to make sure that they learn and give the right diagnosis and treatment plan.
"IMHO, omething that the people in medical profession must necessarily have is 'the right attitude' and feeling of compassion towards a patient. I have experienced this in Singapore and sometimes i thought that for common ailments, it was simply the doctors attitude that cured the patient. I have personally experienced it... "
.
.
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... what they call as "placebo effect" or "it's all in the mind...." thing, yeah it usually worked with wonders :)
for barging in, in my "uderstanding"(??) that for engineers from neighboring country of majorities' populace here, there is no government board exams that regulates their practice/s. i stand corrected, if proven otherwise :)
now, if that is the case with engineers, what would it be for medical professionals?
Good on you - I think people should be aware of both the good and the bad sides to everything before making a decision. Especially for something as important as choosing a hospital.
I have to admit I've only been for admin purposes but from what I saw, I'll be sticking with Al Ahli... Al Ahli may have its faults but I have never been treated with such disregard or be met with such rudeness as at HMC.
It's very interesting to read about your experiment and other people's experiences. Jasminejasmine, it's disgusting how you were treated by the first Dr and almost everyone has problems with "queue-jumpers" and staff not following the ticket system.
If I were you I'd continue your experiment (obviously with the patient's consent!!!) and see if this is a regular occurence. If it is then I would submit your findings to the management (or as high as you can get!). If nothing else it will let them know that some people are not happy with the way things are.
HMC does have a good reputation generally and many people don't have a problem. But some of the problems that have occured are very basic - not reading patient histories or giving an exam?? Not really any excuse for that.
Just my thoughts...
www.qaws.org
uh oh thats worrying and quite scary....I'm not convinced some of those crowd of mickey mouse practitioners are even qualified!
yes dora! aside from revealing the facts here for the benefit for everyone. What I did, just made the referral more easier to understand for the doctors. ^_^
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
ok, so you did the 'experiment' what can you do it about it? Remember HMC has JCI status so they must be perfect!
For that moment, I'm not concerned for myself, I'm more concerned on how many patients and what kind of treatments did the doctor rendered.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
kinimoto, aren't you concerned that the doctor will question your professional integrity if you send someone to him with completely different symptoms?
Anyway, I doubt those doctors have any real medical qualifications at all, hence the treatment!
As what I have posted "its an experiment" but the parties involved are consented and well-informed except for the doctor who will be attending the patient.
I know someone might question the action I've done. thanks for asking dora.^_^
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
i duno if the doctors here are all board passers and how many years they will take that medicine course.
kinimoto..are you saying you omitted to handover the information of a 'productive cough for 2 weeks' and described something else???? In an 'experiment'??
Is that ethical do you think, in your profession?
IMHO, omething that the people in medical profession must necessarily have is 'the right attitude' and feeling of compassion towards a patient. I have experienced this in Singapore and sometimes i thought that for common ailments, it was simply the doctors attitude that cured the patient. I have personally experienced it. And it is like a silver lining to learn from the replies of some doctors in this thread, that atleast some med profs have that awareness here.
I guess there are some really good facilities and equipment here but money can't buy attitudes can it?
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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
mj, me also
=Dura Lex Sed Lex=
TCOM,
everything in the medical record of a patient should be correct, wrong spellings can change the whole picture, even a a single letter can do much damage.
=Dura Lex Sed Lex=
My patient came in this 8:00pm asking for what his diagnosis all about. He told me he got a Penicillin shot and needs 2 more for the next 2 weeks.
When I read his medical paper,it is written "Late Stage Syphillis".
I asked my patient if what the doctor did to arrive to this kind of diagnosis. He told me that the doctor never did a physical assessment on him or blood workups or any specimen took from him to be examined.
But still I gave this doctor the benefit of doubt. So I asked my patient if he is sexually active for his whole duration of stay here in qatar and he claims to have no contact for years. I examined him and there's no ulceration or tumour formation anywhere in his body. And there are no signs of infection in his current state.
By the way, I referred him to Hamad Hospital OPD due to his Hypertension.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
suggest another Hospital then.
You're kidding yourself.
hmmm... let me put it this way.
If its not emergency, better go to other hospitals.
^_^
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
it is good then?
You're kidding yourself.
Just read between the posts and you'll have your answer but I have to give credit to other departments and physicians who are doing well with their jobs.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
As a new person to Qatar,is Hamad Hospital good?
You're kidding yourself.
my experience at HAMAD OPD
march 30th was the first time ever i went to hamad opd for my daughter .. we had got an appointmnet at 8:00 we reached there at 7:30 and got our number 803 and started waiting. teh doctor reahced by 9:00am and saw 800 and the next number came 801 came within 10 minutes, but after 801 there was no change even after 40 minutes ...my hubby had taken time off from his office and were getting calls from office ...he just went near the room and saw that arabic lady with numbers 807 entering the room and another leaving the room. he asked me to ask the nurse why this is happening and when asked the reply was that patient is an oxygen patient and we will b called after 5 minutes again waiting continued until 10:10, this time we cud see 809 out of the room , i just waited outside and was determined to enter next wuetver may happen and entered too but off use with me n kid sitting the doctor allowed another arabic lady and examined her kid asking us to wait.
finally she examined my kid , just 5 minutes and we were out at 10:25 AM.
we decided that never again we will goto HAMAD OPD.
we did write a complaint in suggestion box kanowing that will go to the trash.
agree with oracle...and come to think of it...you became a doctor not knowing the spelling of the medical terms/jargons??? You spent how many years to study, review and read all those things relevant to your line of expertise and yet you misspell a word???
As a professional, you must at least exert extra effort to know the spelling of those terms coz definitely it will reflect on you, more so to the institution where you belong.
Mitzzyy Mitz '09
when it comes to medical investigation they are not relying solely on the written reports. they are digging up the whole patient's record that includes physician's progress notes and doctor's order sheet and believe me spelling and grammar mistakes can completely change the scenario or the context or meaning as u said of the document..
Funny yet sad situation.
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CONFUSE ............ if you cannot convince!
yes i was kinimoto.. :)
You might be referring for hospital settings in western countries where MT's are part of the medical team. But in some countries, the doctors are still in charge in making the reports.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
they don't actually write the reports, they make the dictations, the MTs transcribe them.. so if an error occurs in the report, the MT will be the first one to get the blame..
I beg to differ as most of the spelling mistakes could be which is not important in the medical field or change the text/ meaning of that document
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TCOM spelling has a big impact on their profession.. as somwer said what they write is considered legal.. their documentation can be used against them.. besides right spelling is one representation of individual's professionalism and knowledge..
sorry for that.. just thinking for a good synonym for writing.lol
turns out to be in different meaning.
peace y'all.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
yes somwer, an MT like me..and yes, in the field of Medicine, there's no room for errors..
TCOM,
spelling has a lot to do with their qualification, whatever they write is considered a legal thing or document as others may call it.
Kinimoto,
doctors don't transcribe, medical transcriptionists do that.
=Dura Lex Sed Lex=
oh common, they are reading the same book,for God sake and physicians are considered as intellects. there is no room for error in the field of medicine, since it deals with lives. a slight error may cause a misdiagnosis and improper treatment.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
Spelling has got nothing to do with the doctors qualification after all English is not their 1st language of most of the doctors here
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yes SomweNdmiddle, I also noticed the way they spell those words. E.g. dispepsia, syphilis, infarcion...
waaaaaaaaaaa why they never bother to flip a medical book before transcribing those medical lingo.
and they never complete the details in the patient's discharge form. Leaving me clueless of what they did to my patient in the hospital.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
"it's funny that some doctors don't know how to spell what more when it comes to assesment and diagnosis..."
you got that right! if you could only read their progress notes and the diagnosis that they write.
=Dura Lex Sed Lex=
They might consider putting up another kind of Department in Hamad Hospital, please proceed to the LOST AND IGNORED DEPARTMENT.
If they are well dedicated to their calling as physicians, they must at least learn how to speak: what is your problem?or simply are you all right?
These are health professionals and they are expected to do their job well. Maybe they didn't have good foundation back in medical school and it shows here in Hamad Hospital their incompetent performance.
So sad.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
that is really true, one good example are the Dentists .Once these Q's graduated fr. School of Dentistry, the hospital automatically hires them as Intern for 2 years,they have been assigned to different department for a certain period of time and gets their hands on training at the consultants and specialists .
It is so unusual that during their internship most of them knows nothing about their field .What did they do during schools days? Paid the professors in exchange for a passing grade!
cause I dealt with their Ultrasound Departm...but,as Oracle said, if you fix an appointment (better said THEY are fixing directly the month and hour..)why they don't respect the schedule...esp.when having an abdominal/pelvian echo...don't wanna speak ab exploding of drinking water before coming, while waiting and...overwaiting one hour and a half more...
So, I think the large volume of patients and the bad management of time schedule can be very frustrating..for both parts!:-(
you are right somwer.. communication should not be the problem because they have their language bank but the thing is - it is not being utilized.. i was there yesterday for my appointment i've waited for 4 hours to see the doctor i came at 8AM because my appointment was 8:30.. anyways while i was waiting i saw couple of patients who were trying to communicate with the reception about some laboratory investigations.. the patients don't know how to speak neither english nor arabic.. it was so sad that they were set aside and kept on waiting not knowing what to do.. i don't know what happened to them because when i left they were still there waiting..
regarding doctors - some don't do their work properly and some don't know how to do their work.. but there are quite few who are efficient though.. it's funny that some doctors don't know how to spell what more when it comes to assesment and diagnosis...
communication should not be a problem because there is a language bank in hamad though i think it's not serving its purpose
=Dura Lex Sed Lex=
Yes the Communication Barrier is a problem
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HE WHO DARES WINS
Thanks the rock, I wonder if there's a regulating body that would be responsible in maintaining the right level of service these physicians would give to their patients.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
I appreciate your reply, it is both reasonable and measured. As a doctor I am sure you know both sides of this argument. Thank you JJ
are right about what you saying jasmine,me as myself as a doctor is not agree with their way of prescribing medicine to their patient,yeah im not pointing all of them,and of course i must be very critic cause im not ignorant about their field,and it is my field also.we are dealing with life.
maybe their salary is based on quota system, the more the better...:D
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KEEP MOVING!!!
private hospitals? like American Hospital for example? someone i know went there because of his health insurance, i have known him for quite some time and he has a family history of heart disorders, to cut the story short he has hypertension and has been having chest pains for quite some time, when he was seen by a doctor in that hospital he gave all his medical history and voila! he was prescribed panadol! he was not even given meds for his heart disease even if he told the doctor about his history as he also ran out of his maintenance meds.
=Dura Lex Sed Lex=
What do you think the reason for this kind of problem?
Answer: Lethargy! and perhaps also under-qualified staff, though i can't be sure of this one.
I applaud you for the kind of experiement you conducted. These should be conducted by some government regulatory body.
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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
The nationality of the doctors who do this kind of treatment are well known. There are doctors who will prescribe you medicine as soon as you enter the room. Cant imagine how they ended up getting their degrees!!! Maybe online degree or one obtained through correspondence
Austin, I am sorry but I take exception to your claims. That is a very serious thing to accuse. Yes there are language and cultural barriers but HMC is a huge organisation, it uses modern and evidence based protocols and is generally clean. The vast majority of people attending the HMC are not dying through being misdiagnosed or prescribed. I for one feel lucky to be able to access almost free care at the point of delivery. I suggest you go experience the filthy third world UK NHS. I also feel that such accusations should be backed up with evidence. Also, like the Karwa buses here, many people are so fast to say how crap they are but would never have even been in one, same with HMC. Their biggest critics are often people who have never even entered the campus, just heard the usual urban myths that fly around.
is not a good hospital to go here in doha,much better to go in private hospitals,HMC will not give you the right medication,doctors there is a "BIG MASKARA".just go and prove it to yourself.
I even remember the month where they shift prescribing Panadol Extra to Panadrex.
It was around September last year. It's their favorite prescription for all kinds of bodily pain. T_T
Most of them are really dedicated and doing well in their job but we can't deny the fact that there's always a rotting apple in a fruit basket.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
hayzzzzzz...what to do...It was really sad to see those kind of people and yet they had their oath to save lives but doing otherwise...=(
but...am not generalizing them...perhaps most of them...;D
Mitzzyy Mitz '09
the Dr.s are very well trained at prescribing Adol.
I don't think so Mitzzy. They didn't find time to ask for medical history, even with those pieces of paper.
The what so called "standard operating procedure"
for doctors is farfetched in that department.
I had a patient before all signs and symptoms pointing to tuberculosis. I sent him to OPD expecting for a sputum exam or X-ray to be conducted but he went back only with a bottle of cough syrup.
So sad.
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
emergency department.One time I was complaining of a pain on my left hip so I asked my hubby to take me there.I was seen first at the trial room and was asked about my chief complaint which I clearly answered that my left hip is in pain then the nurse asked for a medical history so I told her that I am asthmatic.
Then ,It was my turn to be seen by an ER Dr.As soon as I got in the room ,she started asking question about my asthma and checked the lungs thru stet.asking me to breath deeply.Afterward ,write prescription and called a nurse to bring me at the treatment room for a nebulizer.I said ,Dr.I am complaining about my painful hips,she just looked at me and ordered the nurse to take me to the other room.I keep on telling the nurse that there is nothing wrong with my breathing but she said it was the Dr.'s order to have me nebulized.I said ok and just kept quite(grrr)
Then after that session ,the same Dr. checked my condition again and asked me how I feel now.And for the nth time I told her again ,Dr. I am ok ,I don't have asthma attack and the only main reason why I came here is because of my left hip.And that is the only time she checked my hip and prescribed paracetamol after all. wehehehe.On the way home I told hubby what happened to my hospital visit.he just laughed thinking how stup*d the dr. is and told me that next time he will never ever take me to that hospital again .
I have visited many time to ER in HMC
I have seen many times the staff and doctors treat the asian people very badly. they dont even have respect for a patient being human. Only if you know arabic they talk else you are like dog.
one thing only, most doctors in hamad are not doing their jobs or do not know how to do their job. you're right mitz, how did they become doctors in the first place? i am not saying all of them are, but most and to think hamad has been accredited by JCI!
=Dura Lex Sed Lex=
That is why I am wondering...How do they become a doctor in the first place when the history of the patient is not properly scrutinized. We all know to be able for you to arrive to the precise and efficient diagnosis, you must first know the medical history of your patient before giving any medications that would eventually subside the underlying signs and symptoms interconnected with the chief complaint.
But then, It also made me think, perhaps the doctors here are like that because they are so accustom to treat the chief complaint as their head is on the chopping board once they were not able to relieve the reason why the person seek for their assistance.
Kini, will they find time to read those piece of papers in the suggestion box considering that bulk of people?
Mitzzyy Mitz '09
Even the women's clinic has the same scenario?
I feel for you jasminejasmine, good thing that doctor's license is not being revoked?! though its not malpractice nor negligence, she should treat you well.
"If you know what to expect fine. I would imagine though that those labourers come out of there either having not been seen at all or possibly been unable to communicate their symptoms through fear and not being listened to. The best thing is to send a nurse who speaks Arabic to act as their advocate in my opinion."
-this is true,some of the patients I referred told me that the doctors never place the stethoscope to their chest or even laid their eyes on them. They only read what is written in the referral paper and automatically prescribe.
Some of the physician don't even speak english. How they will fill up the CHIEF COMPLAINT area? by gestures?
their OPD is not functioning very well.Jas, drop something in their suggestion box! e
"I don't go back on my words, that's my way of ninja"
First of I agree with you, and would like to add that it can be a terrifying experience that leaves you feeling like dirt.
The womens clinics are hard hearted and if you are not Arabic you may get shouted out, pushed and miss your slot because someone who is more experienced at pushing gets there first. I left the pharmacy recently with bruises on my arm from the Phillipina woman behind me in the queue shoving me out of the way. I have not gone back to get my px, can't face it.
I was a staff nurse in the UK and have been a Sister of 2 OPDs there. I also did a lot of research for my MSc on "The Patient Journey" both in OPD and ED.
Communication is a problem but in my opinion it is more connected to perception. For example, if i smile and look confident when dealing with the women admin, they help me and show me what to do. On my first visit, I was in tears, lost and scared and was told to go home and come back with my husband, why you so sad, God decides if you have cancer or not.
I was told by the doctor on my first visit that I probably did have cancer, not having children when 33 was against God and he will punish me. She was both mentally and phisically aggressive. I was terrified and felt filthy. Since then i have been many times and been treated with the utmost resect, she was a one off and if I had complained about her formally, they assure me that she would have been dealt with.
I would never attend the OPD alone, I always take a feisty friend who is preared to push people back who assault me.
If you know what to expect fine. I would imagine though that those labourers come out of there either having not been seen at all or possibly been unable to communicate their symptoms through fear and not being listened to. The best thing is to send a nurse who speaks Arabic to act as their advocate in my opinion.
Lastly, I want to say that HMC is a top class organisation and I am grateful for the clinical excellence, I just wish i could run the OPD!!