Abaya and my experience

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Most if not all my Muslim physician friends here in the US wear hijab. No problem.

Mandi

@insanity...May ALLAH reward u for ur share....it just made ppl knw what hijaab is actually is in the light of Holy Quran and sunnah!in my opinion niqaab is not a compulsion...but it will definitely lift my grade in front of ALMIGHTY if i choose to wear it..i never consider it as an obstruction..and hope inshallah one day i will be among the lovely ladies who choose to cover their body complying 100% with islam..:)

@happy happy..thanx fr bringing about a healthy discussion!

And love ya lots too!

Happy Happy, we miss YOU!

Mandi

Insanity wins the cut-and-paste award for the day. I'd rather hear the person's own words.

Mandi

Love you and miss you FathimaH. I never forgotten our brief chats dear...:)

And you have my respect too,habibthy!

As for the niqab, I still see it as optional, and have no issues with any woman who chose to wear it. Personally, I find it humiliating and obstructive. Others love it and feel ultimate freedom in it. I have niqabi friends who still wear it on while on vacation in the West, out of their own conviction. To all my respect is due.

insanityOO7, I do like your last post indeed, and was just discussing men's hegab on my FB page yesterday. Now we're talking...:)

Hijab for men

People usually only discuss ‘hijab’ in the context of women only. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijab’ for men before ‘hijab’ for the women. The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al Noor: “Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.” [Al-Qur’an 24:30]

The moment a man looks at a woman and if any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he should lower his gaze.

Hijab for women.

The next verse of Surah Noor, says: “ And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye believers! Turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.” [Al-Qur’an 24:31]

III. Six criteria for Hijab.

According to Qur’an and Sunnah there are basically six criteria for observing hijab:

i. Extent.

The first criterion is the extent of the body that should be covered. This is different for men and women. The extent of covering obligatory on the male is to cover the body at least from the navel to the knees. For women, the obligatory level of covering is to cover the whole body except the face and the hands upto the wrist. If they wish to, they can cover even these parts of the body. Some scholars of Islam insist that the face and the hands are part of the obligatory extent of ‘hijab’. All the remaining five criteria are the same for men and women.

ii. Should not reveal figure..

The second criterion is that the clothes they wear should be loose and should not reveal the figure.

iii. Should not be transparent..

The third criterion is that the clothes they wear should not be transparent such that one can see through them.

iv. Not attract opposite sex..

The clothes they wear should be not be so glamorous as to attract the opposite sex.

v. Should not resemble the clothes of the opposite sex.

The fifth criterion is that the clothes they wear should not resemble that of the opposite sex.

vi. Should not resemble the clothes of the unbelievers..

The clothes they wear should not resemble that of the unbelievers i.e. they should not wear clothes that are specifically identities or symbols of the unbelievers’ religions.

IV. Hijab includes conduct and behaviour among other things

Complete ‘hijab’, besides the six criteria of clothing, also includes the moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. A person only fulfilling the criteria of ‘hijab’ of the clothes is observing ‘hijab’ in a limited sense. ‘Hijab’ of the clothes should be accompanied by ‘hijab’ of the eyes, ‘hijab’ of the heart, ‘hijab’ of thought and ‘hijab’ of intention. It also includes the way a person walks, the way a person talks, the way he behaves etc.

TAKEN FROM:

http://www.islamicvoice.com/october.98/zakir.htm

"..We all know there are diferences in opinions when it comes to the face veil in the Islamic law. so relax mate..."

@marcos, Hijab does not mean just face veil. Read below for complete details on what constitutes Hijab

"...insanityOO7, you should communicate with Allah then and tell Him He is very wrong about ordaining women not to wear niqab for prayer or during pilgrim. You and all "men" scholars seem to be better informed..."

You read about women not wearing full hijab during pilgrimage from the same sources which refer to women wearing hijab in normal circustances.

So you cant deny a part of it and agree to a part (which suits you)..

Imam Barbaharee rahimullah said There Are No Analogies For The Sunnah.

"May Allaah have mercy upon you! Know that the Sunnah is not a matter for analogies or reasoning with examples, and desires are not to be followed in it. Rather, it is just a case of affirming the narrations from Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), without asking how, explaining or saying: 'Why?' or 'How?'"

You can use all your logic in trying to verify whether the source is correct or incorrect. However if it is proved that the source of information is correct then we need to beleive it (even if we dont like).

Some scholars think so. IE that Muslim women should not uncover in the presence of Non Muslim females.This is because they interpret this verse of the Quran this way and also because they say a non Muslim female is not to be trusted etc. However many scholars disagree. I personally follow the latter opinion. IE I uncover in front of my Non Muslim family members, companions and even acquaintances the same way as I do in front of the Muslim ladies.

The funny part is to date no Non Muslim lady has let me down but I've had Muslim friends go describe me to their husbands which is bdw forbidden in Islam(to describe a woman in hijab's body,hair etc to a man)

Insanity007 - your quote from the Quran; and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex.

Looking at the part that states; "or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women..." - quick question;

Does that mean that Allah through the Quran does not allow Muslim women to reveal their faces to non-muslim women??

Not a champion in Islamic preaching. I have not seen Niqab used in UAE recently (vast difference in practise).

I have seen a lady doc in Hamad with niqab.

insanityOO7, you should communicate with Allah then and tell Him He is very wrong about ordaining women not to wear niqab for prayer or during pilgrim. You and all "men" scholars seem to be better informed.

All the best.

Insanity: Stop forcing your views on others. It's not cool.

We all know there are diferences in opinions when it comes to the face veil in the Islamic law. so relax mate.

"......insanityOO7, Any phrase followed by "i.e" means it is subject to interpretation. Simple logic, niqab is compulsory while it's forbidden for women to wear during pilgrimage?........."

Ok, read the content before the i.e

Secondly, Prophet Muhammad SAWS was sent to mankind to explain the revelation to us (so that there is no room for misinterpretations); as Quran says:

With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur'ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. (An-Nahl 16:44)

So what was explained by Prophet and what was understood by the companions w.r.t this verse is very clear and is present in hadith:

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: "I know (about) the Hijab (the order of veiling of women) more than anybody else. Ubay ibn Ka'b used to ask me about it. Allah's Apostle became the bridegroom of Zaynab bint Jahsh whom he married at Medina. After the sun had risen high in the sky, the Prophet invited the people to a meal. Allah's Apostle remained sitting and some people remained sitting with him after the other guests had left. Then Allah's Apostle got up and went away, and I too, followed him till he reached the door of 'Aisha's room. Then he thought that the people must have left the place by then, so he returned and I also returned with him. Behold, the people were still sitting at their places. So he went back again for the second time, and I went along with him too. When we reached the door of 'Aisha's room, he returned and I also returned with him to see that the people had left. Thereupon the Prophet hung a curtain between me and him and the Verse regarding the order for (veiling of women) Hijab was revealed." Sahih al-Bukhari, 7:65:375, Sahih Muslim, 8:3334

Narrated Umm Salama Hind bint Abi Umayya, Ummul Mu'minin: "When the verse 'That they should cast their outer garments over their persons' was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows hanging down over their heads by wearing outer garments." 32:4090. Abū Dawud classed this hadith as authentic.

Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba: "Aisha used to say: 'When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils (Khumur) over their necks and bosoms (juyyub)," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.'" Sahih al-Bukhari, 6:60:282, 32:4091.

Now there is a general rule and there are exceptions. Both have been mentioned and explained by prophet muhammad SAWS.

The best generations in islam is that of the Sahabas and they understood and acted upon the preachings of this verse as mentioned in above hadith, and there is a unanimous agreement fo all major scholars/imams of Islam on this subject.

rifa_pink, I see the medical profession as no different from being an engineer, interpreter, housekeeper...in any case you will have to mingle and use your "female" voice to communicate.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that you wore niqab, since I know not of any female doctor having troubles because she wears hegab, there are plenty of decent hair-covered doctors in Qatar.

insanityOO7, Any phrase followed by "i.e" means it is subject to interpretation. Simple logic, niqab is compulsory while it's forbidden for women to wear during pilgrimage?

"......Also, and don't think of me as being rude, but niqab is not a must, I may call it a preference to fit your own lifestyle?..."

No it is a must in Islam:

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful. (An-Nur 24:31)

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Al-Ahzab 33:59)

but happy happy,all d professions u mentioned fr females above are unislamic...it involves mingling with non-mahram males and thats forbidden in islam...Muslim ladies are better off than wrking in such posts!I am a medical professional...in no way my profession is haraam..ALHUMDULILAH!!

I dont wear the niqab/face cover.I just have an abaya and head cover on.and thats compulsory for any dedicated muslim :)

jazak allah khair fr ur opinions!

rifa_pink, I understand your shock about Qatar, I really do. As I always say, I know of NO Muslim country that follows 20% of Islam teachings, they only get to talk about it or write it somewhere in their laws for the sake of it..:)

In my country, you couldn't wear hair cover and be a TV host, ambassador, or even a flight attendant!

Have you thought about working with an all-girl school?

Also, and don't think of me as being rude, but niqab is not a must, I may call it a preference to fit your own lifestyle?

@happy happy...i would love to do the job which would involve females patients only..where i wudn't have to worry about my hijab conditions!but unfortunately,I have failed to grab a post like that...never knew I would face a situation as mentioned above in a country like QATAR... .Insha'allah what ever happens,happens for the better.ALLAH Almighty is the best of the best planners for us...Thats wat I believe in...:)

rifa_pink, about praying while at work, many of us have to wait for the right moment to pray quickly, as some organizations don't schedule fixed prayer breaks (while others do), or the nature of the job won't allow it for obvious reasons.

As for your attire, have you thought about working to serve women patients only, so you'd feel comfortable taking off your niqab and getting the job of your liking?

Patients need Semi naked girls to be relaxed and recover quickly???

What is problem actually in wearing Niqab? Qatar appointed many racist and sick minded people on administrative posts, so now a Muslim have to suffer...

@tubnit.....mashallah im glad that u dint compromise islam for the sake of job!Allah has better plans fr us...!!SUBHAN'ALLAH u found a better job.

@tubnit.....mashallah im glad that u dint compromise islam for the sake of job!Allah has better plans fr us...!!SUBHAN'ALLAH u found a better job.

@tubnit.....mashallah im glad that u dint compromise islam for the sake of job!Allah has better plans fr us...!!SUBHAN'ALLAH u found a better job.

The analogy between Hejab and beard is not irrelevant if both are due to religious reasons.

so heres where the action is going,, ok people 1,2,3 arugue!!

TUBNIT2: The analogy between Hejab and beard is kind of irrelevant here however your firm resolution to stand by your principles and what you hold as the truth is plausible.

i was refused a job cause of the length of my beard , i was told that i would work the next day and my contract would is already agreed upon IF I SHAVE , i was told i look barbaric and that i wasnt pleasing enough for the BOSS , he asked me couple of questions , i refused , Alhamdulillah it just took me 2 weeks to get the same type of job but in a better company ,whats the point in giving up your religion for dunya ? the true death of a Muslim is not his real death rather when he compromises in his religion , your risq is written either you get it halal or haram

Allahu Akbar !!!

Seems like it's not just us western women who get criticised for our clothing choices..

@insanity007...jazak allah khair for the wise words...very well said indeed.The life in thiw world is a temporary abode!we need to strive for the next.May allah almighty accept our good deeds and intentions.AMEEN

Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allâh's Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allâh gives (of His Bounty, Blessings, Favours, Honours, etc. on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit. (Al-Baqarah 2:212)

We need many more hijabi young ladies with this kind of attitude to prove to the world the islamic way of life does notcome as a hinderance of any good endeavor. May Allah reward you for your perseverance !!!

As w.r.t to a comment by one of the members:

".....job as a television reporter, in a predominantely non-muslim area, and at the interview said she'd be willing to adjust her dress accordingly: wearing shayla instead of hijab, if that was what was needed, or taking it off entirely to pursue her professional dreams....."

For muslims the realization of dreams of afterlife which is everlasting is much more important than the realization of professional dreams in this world (which is temporary).

Also, there is no guarantee of achieving professional success in this world even if someone compromises his religion for the sake of duniya; whereas the success in afterlife is guaranteed by Allah if we follow his commands.

Hence for a true muslim this is a no brainer - we can’t compromise our religion for career. Allah commanded muslim women to wear hijab (not to work as a news reporters )

I believe people should be given the freedom to live their life the way they want......we can come to conclsuions only when we are sure that the purposes are not happening properly. Wearing a abaya or not wearing a abaya should never be a criteria for anything unless the person fails to show their capacity/calibre/quality.

People always think that what they think is right...where as i suggest, we should also the other way round if possible...from their shoes.....

any how u r lukcy that u didnt have to work with such a narrow minded superior!!!!

My Guide help find a better job in Good place, ameen. Evil people will use these silly excuse whenever they had a chance to do use it

Well.. I amn't muslim, but truly respect ladies who are working honoring their believes and traditions. Having said that, I'd like to share an expecience I had with a doctor wearing abaya and the full-head veal. Well I had a painful low staomach pain - it was finally an appendicitis - and she did her duties without any restriction or discomfort; the physical examination was as normal as anyone conducted in a western medical center. Actually, She was really warm, conforting and she reassured me all the time. My conclusion is regardless what are doctors wearing or bealiving; if they are good doctor they are going to do their best for patients health. However; the opositte case is more common than people think; i've been witness of male doctor conducting poor phisical examnitation to ladies - despite of her husband is there approving his actions. The last time I went to a Clinic with my wife I claimed to the doctor why he didn't check my wife conditions by a physical examination; he just heard her chest with the sthetoscope and he dind't check her abdominal area despite of we were ther for an stomach pain. Can you believe it? That's is crazy.!!

Well in that case Rifa than I think you should name and shame the clinic. There is no excuse, especially in this region, to deny a woman a job just because she's wears an abaya and hijab. Shame on them.

I appreciate your answer and spirit; we should not be shame full on Islam's patron of life

I was treated by an excellent doctor wearing a full niqab.. Didn't have a problem...

NOT ALL WOMEN WHO WORK IN THE HOSPITALS ARE WEARING THE ABAYA. IN HAMAD HOSPITAL, ALL THE NURSES ARE NOT WEARING ABAYA DURING THEIR DUTIES.MAYBE YOU WILL SEE THEM ENTERING THE HOSPITAL WEARING ABAYA BUT INSIDE THE HOSPITAL THEY ARE REMOVING IT. STILL THEY ARE NOT WEARING ABAYA DURING THEIR DUTY. THERE ARE OTHER DEPARTMENTS ALSO THAT IS NOT WEARING AN ABAYA. SOME OF THE STAFF THAT WEARS ABAYA IN HAMAD HOSPITAL ARE DOCTORS.

See the issue is dear friends.....dis particular employer's reaction!!is she living in the 14th century...i mean going by her educataion level,her stay in qatar she should by now realise that hijabi women can do well in any field they choose!!An abaya never restricts a lady.I am not adorning a face cover/naqaab!i was just in a abaya and head cover!!

and those who haven't seen a doctor in naquab/face cover ever,please visit the government hospitals..Alhumdulilah you have lots of ladies who are doing well in their field.You can see consultants and specialist etc.

Dear brothers & sisters thank you for all the kind words!I really appreciate.It was an experience I faced,I felt i needed to share.now I am even more proud of my HIJAB alhumdulilah.May ALLAH Almighty give us all better sense of understanding.Ameen!

I believe that wearing hijab will never affect once work, As employee working in an Oil and Gas Company surrounded by the Western people, wearing hijab was never been a question hence i am doing my job well. As per Medical people, i see doctors and nurses wearing hijab in Hospital and it dosen't even make them less.

yes muslim people has the right to do their practice and to worship their God just like christian or other religion do,, so we cant blame them if they want to ware hijab in the hospital cause that's their practice,,

All I'm saying that in the end it all comes to religion which is in my point of view tearing us apart,, but im not saying that they should stop practicing their religion,, im saying we cant blame them and they cant blame us,,

well that's the big thing i think: there is religion, and you should be free to practice your religion as you choose. However, when it comes to dealing with the public, from all over the world who might not share your religion, or even just your expression of your religion, accomodations might have to be made. Either on your part (ie if you really want a job bt they won't allow niquab, perhaps you won't be able to wear niquab), or on the employers, finding a solution.

The trouble for me arises when people say 'but this is my religion!' and try to shoehorn their own expressions of belief onto and into everything else. We need to meet in the middle, and understand that just because you might choose to express one thing, not everyone else does.

i agree with you about the hijab, to be honest i dont like a medical professional with sleeve touching my interal organs that will be unhealthy, but what can i say that's religion, we need to follow them right, please guys dont be offended, i just wish we be united as a human being, praying in the same god

There is only one God, the problem is we keep seperating ourselve thru religion

Well, for me personally, I find it easier to understand accents when i can see someone's mouth speaking the words. It's why i have an easier time in person than on the phone with heavy accents!

i don't think this is about saying 'muslims aren't qualified', i think this thread has become more about whether or not adhering to certain tenents of your faith (in this case various dress rules), makes it harder to do parts of your job.

i think it's clear that in some fields, wearing niqab could be challenging. However, I think we'rea ll in agreement that hijab is never a problem :) Which is a step forward as far as religious tolerence goes i think!

feb0211: Oh dear me! And you’re a lair as well. (-: now i know better than take you seriously.

so sad to see threads like this.. religion is breaking us apart, can we live in the world united? religion make tension example this one, religion evidently starts wars,, some people think if you are a muslim you are not qualified or different which for me is not right, some christians thinks they're superior which is also wrong.

can we live as one? as a human being? without being label.

let the practice and tradition live but do we need labeled as christian, muslim, buddhism, etc?

only a fool will put the right information on a profile. Is your profile true?

qwertyness: so your saying heavy accented Non-Nigabi female doc is easier to understand? Ummm kinda weird tho, coz I get such a hard time trying to understand the None-Hejabi Philippine nurses at Hamad hospital.

I tried looking at their faces and reading the words they came out of their mouths. But all in vain.

feb0211 : just checked your profile and it says male from Afghanistan. Now why would Interviewer at Qtel feel the need to tell this when it’s obvious was none of your concerns since you’re a guy. Well unless you are a cross-dresser. Are you?

I dont want to support anyone here nor do i want to argue with any1 here.. but doha chap you r talkng sense but dont be rude to anyone .. Miss mimi you make assumptions and also speak fact but both cannot work.. :) ..

and the post creator . miss Rifa.. wer are you?

well, I've never seen a doc in niquab either, and frankly, while I wouldn't care at all if they were wearing hijab, I'd be a bit concerned if my doc was wearing niquab. mainly as I'd have a hard time understanding what they were trying to explain to me should they ahve an accent or their voice be muffled, which is really important in a hospital! also, as someone who generally does not like going to the doctor and who is oftne nervous and maybe even scared when I'm not well, not being able to see my doctors reassuring face? That wouldn't help.

Your problem. miss-mimi. Just don’t make half cooked assumptions : D

Doha-Chap2022 I was told at the time of interview.

Qatar Airways does not hire as Air hostess.

When u burst out of ur self created bubble Mimi u'll start 2 see them: P

Go to Emadi Hospital and ask for Doc. Samirah Al-mahmodi. She is a Qatari head injuries specialist.

My self created bubble? Well I'm sorry I haven't visited every single hospital in Qatar DC. So there's one doctor, in one hospital, that wears niqab. Out of how many female doctors in Qatar?

feb0211: how do you know? Are you the HR in Qtel?

Miss Rifa Pink .. did u mean niqab by Hijab, then it will be a problem for most of the health center jobs. If only Hijab then there should be no problem at all.. with a proper abaya for office wear.

Miss mimi and fathimah , this post by Rifa is going in circles and not covering the actual question and concern raised by her. Only bcus we are assuming shes talking about wearing niqab at work place..

Please confirm miss RIFA..

Please read my personal opinion on this pls:

Why do we wear Abaya or Niqba because we have to follow Islamic rules.

Now my question here is what about touching Non-Mehram patients for checking blood pressure etc.?

I think touching non-Mehram is haram too.

Even Qtel will not hire for their counter staff.

Really DC? Where do they work, because I have never seen a female doctor wearing niqab.

Why should the employer feel the reluctance in hiring a woman who puts on the Nigab? There are plenty of female physicians in Nigab working in various health institutions in Qatar and they are excellent in what they do and have very reputable medical records. So why her Nigab should pose a problem to the medical field?

same same =D

Thank you FatimaH. I look at as if I decided to cover my body in tattoos and wear mini skirts. It would severely limit my ability to get certain jobs, but that is a choice I would have to make.

Thank you so much for the compliment and hope I am truly all that and more =)

For sure there are some jobs unsuitable for niqabi women. Namely ones where your expressions and nuances should be seen by both men and women to be understood.One place I find a niqab to be more seemingly a negative sign even religion wise is when you get these ladies in niqab working behind the counters at banks and health centers in the men's section. Cos I've seen this on numerous occasions. The men, specially the expats cannot understand their speech and/or can't hear them and since they can't even read their lips or see it in their facial gestures you'd have them leaning in real close to the women to try and figure out what they say. and on many occasions this will lead to a lot of discomfort and embarrassment for either both or one party. Niqab does put certain limitations on our choices of careers, but not necessarily will that mean a bad thing but simply may cause us to rethink our ambitions and goals.

This discussion is about the Abbaya or Hijjab....

Abbaya is cultural and Hijab is Religious, i saw many women working in similar fields without Abbaya but with proper Hijjab

...

mushti, she said hijab, but I think she actually meant that she wear niqab. If so, I can understand the employers reluctance to hire her.

If she is simply wearing hijab, than I'm not sure what the issue is.

Miss Mimi - Here rifa is not going for a marathon or any athletics , Here Rifa was planning to work for a medical center in Qatar. I dont understand why a women wearing Hijab makes so much difference to a patient. Shes not covering her face anyways.

To all of you here who are against a person wearing hijab and abaya at medical work , please think twice as this medical work is not a fashion show or a miss world competition. or any sports competition.

Fatimah, you are one of the most level headed people on this site. Could you please enlighten us as to whether you feel there are certain jobs that a niqab wearing woman may not be suited for?

reminding me of my initial stages when I first adorned my hijab and abayah, and then a year later my niqab. All the trials I faced...Subhanallah. From having to leave my job losing my errrrr..."mate" to being told by my family and associates that I was making a big mistake!

You remind me of all the insults my near and dear threw at me. Like "So you joined the Taliban" "So now you are all covered up eh after all the sins you did..ha ha" to my ex boss saying "you will regret this!"

Happy to say I have never ever regretted my choice till date and my life has only gotten better since then, Alhamdullilah. Time and again in the Quran Allah promises us Sucrets if we obey Him and the messenger. All we need is the faith in this promise of our Lord and put fearing and loving Him above fearing and loving things of this world. Truly then not only will you find success in your trials but you will experience true peace and joy in your endeavors minus of any guilt and uneasiness.

"Welcome to the framed and indoctrinated Western mind-set"....hmmmm gee thanks DC!

I think its strange to find that you were not allowed a position here in Qatar as it is a Muslim country?!! Surely that would be expected? or do they only have western doctors and nurse at the hospital you applied for??

you have to understand, hiring is at the managers discretion. and unfortnately, a bad past experience can colour preferences in the future. It's happened to me before-- I was commuting to a job outside of the city, and I'd occassionally want to work from home (because of assignments, or bad road conditions in whether, whatever). My boss took forever to convince that i was actually going to work, and only requested to do this because it was actually moer time efficient (like if I had meetings in town, there was no point commuting to the office only to have to come back into the city), or the roads were really truely dangerous. Why? not because of anythign I'd done, but because a past employee had taken advantage of this, 'working from home' whenever she wanted a day off.

So perhaps this person, questioning whether or not you could move around and do the work in your abaya and niquab, had had a previous bad experience: maybe a past employee hadn't had these specially cut abayas you speak of, or it really did become a problem, not just the dress, but refusing to do certain things or taking too many breaks throughought the day on top of breaks for prayers or whatever. It might not have been about you, or about your religion, but about one person who coloured the managers perception.

HA, well, muslim women swimmers look uncomfortable! hot and sticky and they can't even move in the full head to toe wetsuit! which is what I said!

And this isn't about inequality: if the women had said 'no you may not have this job because you are muslim', that is discrimination and wrong. But, if she said 'because you choose to display your faith in ways x and y, it may not be possible for you to complete certain tasks, and therefore we will choose to pick a candidate who can complete certain tasks', it gets murkier. Is it right? no. But neither, I think, is forcing vivid expressions of your faith into the public forum, where such expressions may in fact hinder your ability to do the work or serve the clients.

that said: if the OP had presented alternatives (tightly cut abay that wouldn't get in the way, or other alternative coverigns that fit the field-- wouldn't a set of scrubs with long pants and long sleeves serve to fullfill religious requirements without causing any strife?--or hijab but not niqab) and the employer still declined to hire her, that is wrong.

But who knows? maybe someone else was just better qualified for the job? i need more information before I'm willing to jump on the 'it was discrimination!' bandwagon.

Captain_Lost: Welcome to the framed and indoctrinated Western mind-set

My man if you think is prejudice, come to OZ (:

Rifa...Its really sad to know that you had experience such people because of your religion.. i say you have done the best thing and made the right decision.. wish you all the good luck in your future efforts..

I remember a thread where a lady said she was refused for a job just because the interviewer said that the job was "not suitable for a lady" ..and then all the "INEQUALITY" and Sister's sympathies comments started popping in... Here on the other hand no one is talking about inequality or discrimination but rather supporting that narrow-minded interviewer who refused to give the job because she "thought" or "assumed" it wont be appropriate for a lady who covers herself fully..

Islam allows women to work in the field of medicine, so lets keep in mind that it also expects them to treat and communicate male patients in their profession ... if the interviewer made few ASSUMPTIONS on her own without knowing the facts she was clearly WRONG..

We do NOT live in UAE or any other part of the world so lets just talk about where we live = QATAR.. Qatari government allows women in abaya as well as niqab to work in hospitals, schools, private companies, govt. organizations and also allows female students to attend universities, schools or colleges in full niqab... please tell me if im wrong about this

qwertyness.. your comment about Muslim women swimmers is the most ridiculous and racist comment i could find in this thread.. i hope you can get a better sense of humor than this (in case you were trying to be funny)

hmmm and maybe she was making a few assumptions as well: aren't strict muslims not supposed to touch people of the opposite gender? Perhaps, if you're fully veiled, she assumed you wouldn't be comfortable touching male patients, which would of course hinder your job. Or perhaps she though you might not be comfortable talking about certain things with patients, because of how strictly you adhered to muslim tenents: for example, it could be assumed a women who wears niquab and takes her faith so seriously wouldn't be comfortable prescribing birth control for an unmarried woman.

I don't think it's right to say you couldn't do your job, but there are a lot of factors. And as miss mimi alluded, these factors count regardless of which faith it is: I know some born again christians who want to dress certain ways or behave certain ways that wouldn't be acceptable in public work spaces.

Rifa than you need to specify that in your post, as it wasn't evident that you were wearing a specially designed abaya. Also, I cannot imagine many hospitals would hire a woman who wears niqab, as it would be disconcerting to the patients. Patients need to feel comfortable with their doctors or nurses, not being able to see their faces would make most people feel very uncomfortable.

Like it or not, how you dress or how you're willing to dress, does effect what jobs you can get. In the UAE women who wear niqab are not allowed to work for government, because it is thought to interfere with communication. Female students are not permitted to wear niqab in government universities either.

Anywhere in the world a woman in abaya would not be able to be a fire fighter or police officer for example. Neither would any woman who insists on wearing dresses or loose garments (even ones that allow you to role up your sleeves).

This is the way of the world.

Niquab is different. . . I can see how some people might not feel as comfortable, particularly if you're dealing with people who speak a different language than you. I know that with many accents I need to be able to see their mouth moving to fully understand what they're saying! And in hospitals, that's even more important!

I'm not saying this lady was right, but there's a difference between her saying no to abaya or hijab and to full abaya and niquab, depending on the setting and the clientel.

Salam, We no need to bother about these people around the world, they're not superior that Our Almighty, He Commanded and we're following. Hope they forget where we will go after the Death. Then for sure they will think that Day, and that time will be Ours.Insha Allah.

@ miss mimi...abayas suitable fr wrk place are differnt than the ones designed for outings!!personally i have custom made abayas...slim fit stretchble sleeves which can be easily folded up and down..just like a nrmal lady wud do fr her shirts or t-shirts!!hence i fail to see why i can't wrk with a abaya on!!!there are scores doing the same if u visit the govt hospital...they have the naqab/face cover on too!!!by heart felt salute for these courageous ladies...MASHALLAH

Well, the ladies in full neoprean swiming costumes with matching head covers, that cover them from head to toe in the water, do look a bit silly and uncomfortable when i see them at the pool. . . we call them the burkakinis :P

@ kavkish.....hope u have seen the bahraini athelete who won a major race wearing a full bodysuit and a hijab like head gear...MASHALLAH she was more cmfrtable than her counterparts wearing 2-pieces!!

Well, a hijab isn't a problem, but a loose flowing abaya, in some fields, as pointed out by miss mimi, could be. that said, I know lots of muslim ladies who wear hijab and when needed will switch to a tighter fitting garmet: like when playing sports or doing certain work, they'll wear long pants and long sleeved shirts. they're still covered, but there's no extra fabric to get in the way.

In fact, back home, a friend of mine wore hijab. She was going for a job as a television reporter, in a predominantely non-muslim area, and at the interview said she'd be willing to adjust her dress accordingly: wearing shayla instead of hijab, if that was what was needed, or taking it off entirely to pursue her professional dreams. The station actually told her no, they wanted her to wear the hijab-- it represented diversity on camera and they liked that! So I think most people around the world respect it, as long as it doesn't hinder or change the quality of your work.

that said, I do think it's reasonable for a company to say you have x number of breaks a day: I know some muslims, here and back home, who take breaks for prayers, and breaks for coffee, and breaks for cigarrettes, and breaks for lunch, adn I start to wonder: when do they work? :P

mushti u dont need to repeat your comments !

not only in medical profession in many other proffesion in offices too we find this kinda stuff ! :(

People will still try to bring out negatives aspects, bcuz they dont know the value of our culture. Peope dont assume..

Well said

Good to see post as such... n also still u have confidence and proud of what u belong to...

May Allah bless u.. :)

We have lots of Women Wearing HIJAB in our Organization,

& I Feel Honored to be Sitting and Working with them...

I Have seen ample of Doctors out here in Doha Clinic , They are wearing HIJAB, and Treating Patients as well...

Then you are better off without a job in such an institution.

If I were in your position I wouldn't think twice before I took this moronic discriminating narrow-minded scum bag to the courts. Anyways the life in this world is a life of trial followed by the eternal life hereafter. The nature of trial for each and every individual is different. If you face hardships due to not getting a job for following your Deen, then it is your trial. Face the test with courage and boldness.

Abaya in Sports??????

I agree with you Rifa. You will find such people in every corner of the world, who dont like our muslim sisters to follow their religion. This is common as they are jealous of our religious views and rules.

May you get a better job than the one you applied for. Inshallah. .

Actually I would say that an abaya would get in the way of many medical professionals. You can't have loose sleeves or garments when you are performing surgery for example. It's unhygienic and it get's in the way. As for Hijab, I've seen loads of medical professionals here with their hair covered or do you wear Niqab?