British Muslims expatriates in Doha, Qatar

Alpha_Wolf, Just for you.

AlphaWolf, my reading is that he Sheikh was critisizing fellow muslims (ie. the department store owners).

Nowhere in the article did I find that he critize let alone forbid Christians for celebrating Christmas.

Cheers

SK

The points being...

1) Brit has clearly stated the difference, but that difference is not by choice but by regulation. You cannot move here and become part of the citizenship because it is not allowed. So you can't say that the choice exists in both places.

2) Political systems are being manipulated to define what is right or wrong instead of answering the real question at hand. So what you end up with is a huge double standard>

Example: Religious freedom should be a human being's right - regardlous of where you live. That is the real question.

However it has been manipulated to - religious freedom should be a right in open sectarian countries but it should not be a right in closed religious countries.

This leads to people from the closed religious countries emigrating to the open countries and demanding their rights while still denying that fundamental human right back in their home countries.

Look at how many discussions here are focused around what a country can (should) or cannot (should not) do based on how they have defined themselves rather than what is a fundamental human right.

If you believe religious freedom is a fundamental human right then a country simply saying that doesn't count here does not change that right. And please feel free to substitute other rights that many feel are fundamental human rights - freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom to assemble and associate etc.

People who do not accept that these are fundamental human rights will always be at odds with those who do, and simply saying "It doesn't count in my country" will not make that go away.

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"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"

Sorry .. My bad :O)

Alpha Wolf and others have made. I, too, agree it's not a fair comparison to make.

"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."

- David Sedaris

Your points are valid. However, I still fail to see the issue regarding citizenship.

We, as expats come here on a contract , with a clear understanding that we are employed to do a job. As professionals, we should do it to the best of our abilities.

In the West, many people emigrate with the specific goal of living in that country, becoming a citizen and adding value to it for the long term.

To me, the two are totally different.

about how we in the west promote our countries as being bastions of tolerance and open arms for all. The Middle Eastern countries don't. Some criticize this and say that the immigrants are taking advantage of westerner's largesse and laws -- and clearly they do benefit from it.

But you can't really level the same criticism here because they certainly DON'T offer the same freedoms here. They're free to set their own rules about such things.

I would say that despite this, we in the west remain the winners because our cultures are more prosperous and we benefit from the "brain drain" that happens all over the world. By not making citizenship freely achievable by others, I think countries here lose out a great deal. Foreign residents here won't develop a sense of civic responsibilty, of really contributing to the larger community -- because Qatar fails to fully embrace 80% of its population, the migrants and expats who have built this nation.

I understand the very valid concerns they have about maintaining their cultural/relgious identity in the face of such a huge number of foreigners, but they could be doing a lot more than they are. They choose to keep everyone else at arm's lengths and not invite them to become part of their country.

And for that, they will simply get exactly what they pay for.

"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."

- David Sedaris

How can you read Qaradawi's statements posted above and consider them to be at all tolerant??? And yes he does condemn the celebration of Christmas here...."“I don’t know if we are in a Muslim or Christian community. It is unreasonable that such celebrations can take place in Qatar which lies in the Arab peninsula and whose native population is Muslim,” he said.

Anyway it is obvious that you have missed the point> When Muslims move to countries such as Britian they EXPECT to practice their religion openly and many, many concessions are made to provide them with just that freedom. However, when you come to some Islamic countries you are expected NOT TO PRACTICE YOUR RELIGION OPENLY.(Unless you are Muslim of course). The Skeikh made that very very clear.

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"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"

Remember the LTTE ??

But as author Sam Harris once said, if you read a story about a young man who strapped a bomb to his body and then blew up a bunch of people in a cafe, you wouldn't have to be psychic to guess the man's religious affiliation.

Not many Buddhists or Scientologists doing that now, are there?

"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."

- David Sedaris

Yes they will, maybe more.. Plenty of people will be condemning that person to hell for posting that, trust me..

Would a thread on the formation of a new British Hindu or British Sikh or British Buddhist Expatriates or British Scientology group attracts this much follow up discussion ...?

Cheers

SK

Its not necessarily tru that muslims havent done enough to raise their voices on extremists or terrorists. Since 9/11 there has been many many demostrations and marches organised by muslims/muslim organsations condeming 9/11 and other subesequent terrosist attacks. Furthermore, there has been many documentries made by muslims again condeming the sxtremists and stating their dissaproval, nor have any islamic organisations in OZ supported or funded these groups. However it seems like the world has made up its mind on Islam, and no matter what muslims say or do, its never going to change. personally i think thats fine, if someone has little intelligence to equate a religion or all its followers to a few terrorist groups (in the name if Islam), well nothing I or anyone else can say or do anything to change their mind. Someone stating that all muslims are terrorists, well do we really bother with someone like that, personally i dont have the time or the inclination to care, they can enjoy living with their heads in the sand.

the implication seems to be that this is an extremist view. However I agree with him and also all the non Muslim commentators who have questioned exactly what Obama has done to deserve this..

intolerant for the Sheikh to say he objects to the promotion of Christmas in stores? He is not denying a Christian's right to celebrate it. He is making the point that as a Muslim country, Qatar should be preserving that heritage not eroding it because of the presence of non Muslims. If it is so important to Christians to celebrate their religious festivals so openly then why come to a Muslim country? and before you make comparisons with Muslims going to the West, most Muslims have to compromise their faith there. In any case, countries like the UK are not Christian countries.

So many people have come to Qatar who have no understanding of or respect for Islam. The authorities here should bear that in mind before they let them if they want to retain their Islamic identity.

Its not suprising of how a muslim scholar behave and preach. As always be, it would be an anti christain, anti american or israel. Now anti christmas. That will not be very helpful in closing the gap between the rift of christian and islam. It is often said of only a hand full of extremist and in fact that makes no difference between the extremist and the moderate because their ideologies are the same. So brother, can we now the same old ritual

The sad thing is that ALL sides manipulate the media to suit their purposes. What is even sadder that most of us believe what we are told.

However, i agree with you totally that the Muslims themselves have to stand up and say "ENOUGH" to the extremists.

I am not sure that your description of pre-9/11 America (or even post 9/11 America) is entirely accurate or fair. Quite a few of us did know about Islam before September 11. And not all of us get all of our information from Fox News. Assuming we don't read and only get information from the news media, there was endless reporting on Islam during the first Persian Gulf War in 1990-91, not to mention the coverage on the taking of the US Embassy in Tehran. So, of course we had heard of the religion. And we don't all believe that all Muslims everywhere are trying to kill us. Look at how many interviews there have been since 9/11 on every network where we hear that "the word Islam means submission to God's will..." and on and on. The war was never on Islam. Rather it is on those who use Islam as an excuse to wage war on others. When will Muslims start taking back their own religion??

This is a good example of why open societies have a problem with Islam. This is an Isamic Scholar who many say speaks for the faith. He is not an extremist in the since that he calls for violence, but he certainly is calling for intolerance.

http://gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=331494&version=1&template_id=57&parent_id=56

Scholar criticises public celebrations of Christmas

By Anwar Elshamy

Staff Reporter

Qaradawi: slams “un-Islamic” practice

Prominent Islamic scholar Sheikh Yousuf al-Qaradawi yesterday criticised the public celebrations of Christmas in Qatar, saying that such celebrations would “undermine” the country’s Islamic identity.

In his Friday sermon, Sheikh Qaradawi called the current practice of displaying Christmas trees and other Christmas-related decorations by local stores “un-Islamic”.

“This is not the image of the Muslim capital city of Doha,” Sheikh Qaradawi told a congregation of faithful at the Omar bin al-Khattab mosque at the Khalifa town.

“I don’t know if we are in a Muslim or Christian community. It is unreasonable that such celebrations can take place in Qatar which lies in the Arab peninsula and whose native population is Muslim,” he said.

Qaradawi, who is the head of International Union for Muslim Scholars, blamed the practice mainly on local stores which, he said, were owned by Muslim businessmen. The recent Eid al-Adha festival of Muslims, he said, had not seen such exaggerated celebration in stores.

“I wonder how owners of these stores, who belong to famous Muslim families, accept their stores participating in Christmas celebrations and putting up four or 5m high Christmas trees,” he said. This would only undermine the Islamic image of the community.

“Such appearances are prohibited by Islam and Muslims participating in them are ignorant of Islamic teachings in this regard,” he said.

“According to the Holy Qur’an, Jesus Christ’s birth was not in the winter season,” he added.

The scholar expressed his surprise that such public celebrations of Christmas could go on at a time when a European country banned the minarets of mosques and others were thinking of following suit. He was referring to the recent Swiss ban on new minarets in the country.

“How could store owners accept to celebrate a religious occasion that has nothing to do with their religion,” he wondered.

“This means that they are ignorant of how to deal with others. There was a poll in France that showed that 41% of the surveyed had opposed more mosques and 46% opposed more minarets,” he said, quoting the result of a recent survey published in a French newspaper.

The scholar also criticised US President Barack Obama’s acceptance of the Nobel Peace prize days after ordering a surge in the number of American troops fighting in Afghanistan.

“I don’t know for what achievement Obama has won the Peace Prize. Obama pulled some of his troops out of Iraq only to send them to Afghanistan. He even failed to force Israel to suspend the building of settlements in Palestine so that peace talks could be resumed,” he said.

“How come that several countries of the world are still embroiled in war and conflict and Obama is getting the Peace Prize?”

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"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"

really tired of ALWAYS having to defend Islam against the yahoos who hijack the religion for their own nefarious purposes. And while I sympathize, I also think the moderate majority of Muslims haven't said and done enough to explain to the rest of the world that certain acts are NOT endorsed by Islam and that Al Qaeda and others do NOT speak for them or their religion.

Maybe a British Muslim group would be able to help address some of the many issues that seem to be problem areas between Islam and the west.

"If you're looking for sympathy, you'll find it between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary."

- David Sedaris

Everyone believes and accepts what the media feeds them. Yet you are quick to point out you are an exception to that rule. I respectfully suggest there are many, many more exceptions to that rule than you are giving credit.

I find it amazing that in an open society you can find persons and media on both sides of most any issue. So which side are they blindly following? I suggest that they receive information and digest it much more than you realize or accept. They really can see much farther than their dinner plate. It could be that they have sound reasons for their opinions and beliefs, not just that they are blind fools because they don't share your opinion.

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"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"

Please don't speak for Americans because there are numerous inaccuracies in your statements. Trying to paint Americans as a bunch of hapless fools who only believe what certain branches of the media says is absurd. There are always different opinions and theories and these are debated and debated and debated. The idea that everyone follows like sheep is unfounded. There is tremendous amounts of information, conjecture and opinions available to people there (and in other free states), perhaps even too much.

"Before 9/11 most of the US didn't even know Islam existed," Really? You must have lived a secluded life.

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"A Wise Man knows what he does not know!"

Never expect another John Allen Mohammad act.

I couldn't agree more Alexa

the flood of Muslims into Europe, and how they are not fitting in at all is going to cause as much problems as 9/11.

I think that it will become very, very uncomfortable..

so why Islam is the fast growing religion???

so , i was having a dinner with a bunch of people , it was last christmas ... between all the people at the table no one was muslim...christians and hindu...so the wine was good and everything was great..until someone at the table started talking about religions...so cause i was the only one who lived all his life in a multi religion place (lebanon) i found myself defending islam...so i told them that if one man was bombing and it happened that he's muslim , it doesn't mean that islam is preaching terror!!! but the problem was that i tried my best even though im christian...but a man coming from new zealand said to me : islam is as islam does!!! so i believe it's gonna be a very difficult task to straighten the image of islam especially that global media "the most powerful weapon on earth" is against it!!

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I'm Jack's complete lack of surprise

LP, you mean sleeper cells and wannabes

You are right bhai.

"Think 100 times before you take a decision, But once that decision is taken, stand by it as one man" - Muhammad Ali Jinnah

yousri as long as he doesn't use officially defined abuses, he can say whatever crap he wants and unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. Ignore him, not worth thinking about.

I dont know why MODS are not taking any action against LEGALPAD for having such same reaction against ISLAM again and again.

"Think 100 times before you take a decision, But once that decision is taken, stand by it as one man" - Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Hooray..

When the late bush have had decided to fight the terrorist, apparently after the 11/Sep the war started against THE ISLAM because of 1 named person & he's Muslim. And the Islam became the target, while the ISLAM is TOTALLY innocent from those people and their bloody thoughts & their sick mentality, where that extremist has a vision and it's clear on large scale. Please...

When??!!! The non-Muslim's world would be able to recognize the difference between the extremist Muslims vision and the true of Islam??!

For God sake… listen to what ISLAM says in his holy book NOT to what that extremist Muslims doing...

It does worries me every time; when you meet or hear about British Muslims coming together.

The latest news about British Muslims accused of Terrorism is readable and does back-up my concerns.

“terrorists rely on an endless supply of people living in extreme poverty, with no other options in life. The only chance we have to see the end of terrorism, is to end extreme poverty.”

Graduated from Xavier Institute for Higher learning