It is normal for a lesser salaried Asian engineer to complain about his or her western counterpart but it's ridiculous for a Western man to complain if they will be given the same salary with his Asian counterpart.
I agree with Londonlad but the issue here is different.
We are talking about the exact same role given to people and these people get paid differently based on where they come from.
Every job needs a certain qualification and usually it has a salary bracket. We all know Western experience is superior to Indian/Pakistan/Philippines.
Also, I can assure you that if you have an Indian that worked in the US for 5 years but not have the US passport, will also be treated as a regular Indian. This is what we are talking about.
With all respect to Indian, Seri Lankans, etc I personally think it is almost impossible to have someone who worked in India that can be capable of managing a big company like a westerner. why? (combination of education, culture, language, work ethics, presentation, punctuality, latest business best practices).
But when you come and tell me a Japanese Director who worked at Toyota is getting paid less than a UK citizen who worked at company X... To me, this is BS. Some Asians invented efficiency and productivity and are superior to UK, US and Europeans.
a 10 yr experienced professional in phillipine/india/pak/bangla/nepal, etc compared to a 10 yr experienced professional from UK/US. The western experienced professional will have a very different experience and approach to work (it not just about work ethic and how late you sit at work), but more to do with strategic approach to getting things done.
Otherwise, why is it that the non-westerner professional cannot find a job for the same salary in the west?
So there clearly are differences, and they should be rewarded differently. Keeping in mind the fact that in UK/US a typical mortgage for a middle class family would be in the range of £350k, while in non-western countries mentioned above, the typical middle class family mortgage would be a lost less. When I say typical, its on a like for like basis. Dont compare central mumbai property values to a house in London's zone 6.
Now while saying all that, there is a problem that someone with 5 yrs experience in UK wants to come to Middle East and expects to get a lot more money than his counterpart from non-western country with 10 years experience. This does happen and in my opinion, that is wrong.
If the UK/US person cannot afford themselves in Middle East for the salary that is in line with their experience and what they bring to the table then they should just not come.
If you go to britexpat forums, you will see people with £50k per annum salary are expecting/demanding £120k salaries from employers in Middle East. Some employers will be idiots and will go with it and that is utter nonsense in my humble opinion.
I was hired as Training Administrator for a salary of QAR5000 plus transportation allowancebut when the Company Chairman found out I was FILIPINO, he lowered it to QAR3,750 all in.
His explanation? the position is for a Qatari and I'm just a temporary filler until they found a suitable one...WTH!
In 2008, I applied for the Office Administrator, I got by-passed coz the other woman is a native-English speaker and got paid QAR10,000 BASIC. I could get the job, they said if I agree to 6000QAR package
Thank GOD I got hired 2 and a half years ago by my current sponsor who is not only fair and just with his employees....I get paid fairly enough...to send my kids to school and have enough left to pay a roof over my head and something to eat until the next pay day comes....
Ok ..... Criously without any reserved sentiment for any nationality whatsoever.. In truth it depends all on your Passport..... It's obvious ..Just take a look at your passport , then your counrty Ok. #sigh# now take a deep breath and realise the way your re being treated in your OWN country and compare with the numerous countries you envy, compare the salaries and again the benefits..... The answer is clear , If we re being treated like Sh*t where we come from You'd be treated the same way any where ...
Now take my advise :- Change your Passport by any means to qualify for the competition and/or Go back home, fight to make it a better place and make your kids Proud ... O_O
what are we here for but to save for a better life when we go home. If someone cannot save for a better life when they go home, will simply not come in the first place and companies have slowly realised that hiring all from one nation does not work, so they have to pay more for a mix of people.
However, what I have noticed is that people from say india who have lived in the ME a while, their salaries do start to become more equitable as they change jobs - based on their current salary and each time they change, voila, their salaries go up. What I also notice is that alot of westerners, their salaries do not change much, they were already being paid the top for what they are doing and cannot get much higher by changing jobs.
Also BE, having worked in HR here for a while, it is common practise for companies to ask what your current salary is and they will base their offers on that. For instance, 2 Civil Engineers, one from the US and one from Philippines you will find that the one from the philppines will be on say 8000QAR and maybe the one from the states will be on 21QAR (in their home country). HR will base their offer on how much extra (or not) they can get away with offering above what they currently earn.
So you can't give someone who is on 8kqar currently over 20k and similarly you cannot offer someone who is on 21k less than that because he thinks, why would I want to come here for less than I am currently earning at home.
Also back to BE's point, rents, mortgages general cost of living in India and Philippines is much less than it is in most of Europe and North america.
And lastly for those that say why not hire all from India etc because there is nothing more detrimental to a good company than hiring all of the same nationality, a good mix of all is the best possible thing
Brit, I might have to disagree with you on this one.
Cost of living in home countries?
I can assure you that in India, some people have a REALLY high cost of living. Like anywhere else, you can get very similar foods/item for very cheap or very expensive. Depends on how rich you are and on your lifestyle.
Average living standards and governmental services vary between a 3rd world country and Europe but that is it.
Plus, if someone is living here, who cares how much a soda can costs back home? Why can't that person Mr (kumar) enjoys his weekend in Qatar like Mr (John) does with his family?
I bet you Mr kumar's kids and wife would like to have gourmet food every once in a while.
I am glad I am white. But nothing pisses me off more than Racism and especially when it gets acknowledged by those who benefit from it! :)
Well see, the thing is, that some people assume that Western people have a better education and work ethics. The problem is, that a lot of Non Western people have Western passports.
Go to Canada, get a passport and come back here. Many people go that route to get a better salary.
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I agree PG.
It is normal for a lesser salaried Asian engineer to complain about his or her western counterpart but it's ridiculous for a Western man to complain if they will be given the same salary with his Asian counterpart.
Peter - I couldnt agree more with you. I was just putting forward a perspective which is mostly invisible to Indian/Pakistan/Phillippine/etc expats.
Guess what, I was a non-western expat for 6 months in Middle East and now I am 8 yrs+ UK experienced british national expat.
I know first hand the difference in my work and approach compared to if I had stayed back in ME or to my non-western country.
I agree with Londonlad but the issue here is different.
We are talking about the exact same role given to people and these people get paid differently based on where they come from.
Every job needs a certain qualification and usually it has a salary bracket. We all know Western experience is superior to Indian/Pakistan/Philippines.
Also, I can assure you that if you have an Indian that worked in the US for 5 years but not have the US passport, will also be treated as a regular Indian. This is what we are talking about.
With all respect to Indian, Seri Lankans, etc I personally think it is almost impossible to have someone who worked in India that can be capable of managing a big company like a westerner. why? (combination of education, culture, language, work ethics, presentation, punctuality, latest business best practices).
But when you come and tell me a Japanese Director who worked at Toyota is getting paid less than a UK citizen who worked at company X... To me, this is BS. Some Asians invented efficiency and productivity and are superior to UK, US and Europeans.
The way I see is this (with an example):
a 10 yr experienced professional in phillipine/india/pak/bangla/nepal, etc compared to a 10 yr experienced professional from UK/US. The western experienced professional will have a very different experience and approach to work (it not just about work ethic and how late you sit at work), but more to do with strategic approach to getting things done.
Otherwise, why is it that the non-westerner professional cannot find a job for the same salary in the west?
So there clearly are differences, and they should be rewarded differently. Keeping in mind the fact that in UK/US a typical mortgage for a middle class family would be in the range of £350k, while in non-western countries mentioned above, the typical middle class family mortgage would be a lost less. When I say typical, its on a like for like basis. Dont compare central mumbai property values to a house in London's zone 6.
Now while saying all that, there is a problem that someone with 5 yrs experience in UK wants to come to Middle East and expects to get a lot more money than his counterpart from non-western country with 10 years experience. This does happen and in my opinion, that is wrong.
If the UK/US person cannot afford themselves in Middle East for the salary that is in line with their experience and what they bring to the table then they should just not come.
If you go to britexpat forums, you will see people with £50k per annum salary are expecting/demanding £120k salaries from employers in Middle East. Some employers will be idiots and will go with it and that is utter nonsense in my humble opinion.
I was hired as Training Administrator for a salary of QAR5000 plus transportation allowancebut when the Company Chairman found out I was FILIPINO, he lowered it to QAR3,750 all in.
His explanation? the position is for a Qatari and I'm just a temporary filler until they found a suitable one...WTH!
In 2008, I applied for the Office Administrator, I got by-passed coz the other woman is a native-English speaker and got paid QAR10,000 BASIC. I could get the job, they said if I agree to 6000QAR package
Thank GOD I got hired 2 and a half years ago by my current sponsor who is not only fair and just with his employees....I get paid fairly enough...to send my kids to school and have enough left to pay a roof over my head and something to eat until the next pay day comes....
jj75 changing jobs in qatar? you gotta be kidding me!!
i second that!!!
yeah brit could do better!!!
Ok ..... Criously without any reserved sentiment for any nationality whatsoever.. In truth it depends all on your Passport..... It's obvious ..Just take a look at your passport , then your counrty Ok. #sigh# now take a deep breath and realise the way your re being treated in your OWN country and compare with the numerous countries you envy, compare the salaries and again the benefits..... The answer is clear , If we re being treated like Sh*t where we come from You'd be treated the same way any where ...
Now take my advise :- Change your Passport by any means to qualify for the competition and/or Go back home, fight to make it a better place and make your kids Proud ... O_O
what are we here for but to save for a better life when we go home. If someone cannot save for a better life when they go home, will simply not come in the first place and companies have slowly realised that hiring all from one nation does not work, so they have to pay more for a mix of people.
However, what I have noticed is that people from say india who have lived in the ME a while, their salaries do start to become more equitable as they change jobs - based on their current salary and each time they change, voila, their salaries go up. What I also notice is that alot of westerners, their salaries do not change much, they were already being paid the top for what they are doing and cannot get much higher by changing jobs.
Also BE, having worked in HR here for a while, it is common practise for companies to ask what your current salary is and they will base their offers on that. For instance, 2 Civil Engineers, one from the US and one from Philippines you will find that the one from the philppines will be on say 8000QAR and maybe the one from the states will be on 21QAR (in their home country). HR will base their offer on how much extra (or not) they can get away with offering above what they currently earn.
So you can't give someone who is on 8kqar currently over 20k and similarly you cannot offer someone who is on 21k less than that because he thinks, why would I want to come here for less than I am currently earning at home.
Also back to BE's point, rents, mortgages general cost of living in India and Philippines is much less than it is in most of Europe and North america.
And lastly for those that say why not hire all from India etc because there is nothing more detrimental to a good company than hiring all of the same nationality, a good mix of all is the best possible thing
Brit, I might have to disagree with you on this one.
Cost of living in home countries?
I can assure you that in India, some people have a REALLY high cost of living. Like anywhere else, you can get very similar foods/item for very cheap or very expensive. Depends on how rich you are and on your lifestyle.
Average living standards and governmental services vary between a 3rd world country and Europe but that is it.
Plus, if someone is living here, who cares how much a soda can costs back home? Why can't that person Mr (kumar) enjoys his weekend in Qatar like Mr (John) does with his family?
I bet you Mr kumar's kids and wife would like to have gourmet food every once in a while.
I am glad I am white. But nothing pisses me off more than Racism and especially when it gets acknowledged by those who benefit from it! :)
you know better brit.
It's all to do with cost of living in home countries..
Start applying atleast a Canadian Passport before travelling to Gulf countries for a job.
The lighter the skin the higher the pay. ROFL..:)
Well see, the thing is, that some people assume that Western people have a better education and work ethics. The problem is, that a lot of Non Western people have Western passports.
Go to Canada, get a passport and come back here. Many people go that route to get a better salary.
Because the sky is high!!