Potentially inappropriate QP grade placement

was introduced (as someone mentioned earlier) to allow QP the opportunity of recruiting western staff without increasing the scales unnecessarily and is awarded based on the nationality shown in your passport. It has never had anything to do with exchange rates.

The grade of the job has nothing to do with your personal qualifications but with what the job requires in order for an incumbent to perform it satisfactorily.

I am surprised that QP are willing to negotiate the basic salary as that will put them in the same mess they were in some years back.

There is (or certainly was) a method of setting recruitment salaries for new recruits that was statistically proven and NOTHING should have been allowed to over-ride that methodology. If they are unable to recruit within the scales than they should be reviewing the scales but to be honest that, as it has always been, is difficult to convince QP management of.

Mandi, sure way to find out where a person really is from ;)

give the guy a break, would u. i had the exact same concern when i was joining QP.

CDG7, I had an MBA and 10 years of experience, and I joined at Grade 16 two years ago. If this is of any help...

however, i agree if your job is graded 15, it would be difficult for u to get that changed. all u can do is to get them to pay u the max of the 15 range. i got them to eventually offer me the near-max of 16 as well...

Ooops, my bad, sorry. I've just never heard an American use the term "reputed" before! And no, I don't think they are being influenced by where you've been working.

Mandi

Don't get me wrong. They approached you with an offer, it's up to you to accept, negotiate or decline, as simple as that. As far as I know, you can only negotiate basic, and I'm pretty sure you're entitled to WIA. Go with a counteroffer focusing on these 2 points and it'll be alright. What I meant by being greedy is to ask for a unreasonable raise... Good luck

Dono, thanks so much for the information on QP’s offering of WIA. I also appreciate your sincere concerns about repercussions to my job prospects with QP, given my ‘attitude’. Please be assured, I am going to be far from confrontational in my dealings with HR. That said, I’m not sure what ‘attitude’ you see courtesy of what I’ve posted so far save for an intense need to make sure I’m not being wronged. If that is the ‘wrong attitude’ – I’m guilty as charged. As my last response to jjj75 states, I no longer feel (after you guys emphatically stated that for a given role and job, the grade levels are fixed) that I am being placed at the wrong level.

As for you advising me ‘TO NOT BE GREEDY’ – just what in any of my posts have I said that makes you feel I'm greedy? Let me ask you something - HAVE I EVEN MADE ONE REFERENCE TO THE AMOUNT OF SALARY I AM BEING OFFERED? HAVE I ONCE ASKED IF THE SALARY IS A FAIR ONE OR NOT? The issue of WIA (if that is what the basis of my ‘greediness’ is to you) is one of fairness NOT greed. Why should I not receive something that is paid as regulation to all western expats? Could you please respond to that?

Also you assumed wrongly that I approached QP. QP approached me. I am at a stage in my career where not only am I in as stable a job as I can possibly be, but based on my accumulated experiences am almost daily sought by companies all over the world (and especially in Asia) with job opportunities. So no I shall not perish without this job. You may wonder, well why then do I feel so passionately about being offered the right grade level and allowance (notice, I didn’t say salary!). Like I said before – it has everything to do with a desire to ensure that I’m being treated fairly and in a non-discriminatory way. No matter where one is in life – and particularly at my stage of life (which you can guess where it is at, based on what I have already mentioned about myself) - assuming one has done fairly well in his/her career, money takes a backseat to being treated with fairness and respect.

Grade no, Salary no, Allowance yes (but only those allowances which are offered to all Western expats by QP - nothing more, nothing less).

First of all I'm glad to notice you saying that you 'think' - rather than are 'sure' - they're not low balling me - be that as it may you saying so for the umpteenth time. Personally Reliableman's comments (devoid of drama and any stated assumptions about my intent, personality traits and attitude)did the most towards reassuring me that QP has a fixed grade associated with each position, and that I am being offered a grade they would offer anyone and everyone (no exceptions) who met the requirements. So let's end the 'lowballing' discussion once and for all, shall we.

QP still offers WIA to westerners based on citizenship, regardless of origin.

CDG7 - This is not the right attitude to negotiate with those guys. You'll need to relax, write a polite email on what you can offer to them and not the opposite. YOU asked to go there, so you better be reasonable, we are definitely expandable. For each point of the offer you want to negotiate, write a short rationale on why you need more, and state that you're eager to join ASAP if they match your demands. They'll come back with a final offer that you need to accept, otherwise look elsewhere. But most importantly, you need to change attitude because as I said, they don't need us as much as we think, don't be greedy. Ultimately if you feel you're low balled, just decline and pursue your endeavors, work on the things you only can control... Good luck

I think that we have all given you as much advice as is necessary now. Talk to QP, we can help you no more.

AND no I don't think they are low balling you, for which I have given you enough info to consider

Mandi - You have boiled it down wrongly. Did I ever mention I am an Indian American? What made you think so? Having worked in India for the past 14 months, I can tell you there are folks of all ethnic backgrounds and nationalities working in its booming economy - not just Indian Americans. For the record (and if must know) I am of mixed Romanian-Czech decent.

Also I am not asserting that OP is low-balling me - all I am asking is are they or not (based on the information I provided in my previous posts and which I am tired of repeating). There is after all a difference between assertion and speculation - I hope we don't have any difference of opinion on that.

and Mandi, the OP thinks as a westerner he should be treated differently in terms of grade/salary.

I think I have it boiled down (it took me a while.) You are saying, "I'm an Indian-American, born and educated in the US, but I have an obviously Indian name and appearance. Although I've lived and worked in the US all of my life, I've been working in India for the past 18 months. Is QP low-balling me because of this?"

Mandi

Reliable - quite, also as a US citizen I doubt he will get it because of zero fluctuation between US$ and QAR

Let me assure you that for every position, there is only one grade level in QP. The position you have applied to must be a position with grade 15. It does not matter what is your qualification and your nationality, you will be offered as per the grade of the position.

Regarding WIA, as far as I know, QP does not have it. However, it has what it is called as "currency protection allowance", and it varies depending on your nationality.

don't think QP offer WIA, they may offer someone a currency fluctuation allowance but as an American citizen you are not eligible as the US$ is pegged to the QAR and therefore suffers no fluctuations.

As I said QP grades are almost certainly not assigned based on each individual person but on the role itself in isolation. This will have already been estabslished a long time ago. An HR job evaluation expert or an exerternal organisation set these using any number of different scales, I gave examples - Watson and Wyatt or Hay are 2 that I know of.

Also, if they already have people doing the same job with the same credentials, they cannot put you on a different grade - why should they? what you can argue for is increased salary within said grade citing your experience and qualifications (I would not mention the fact that you are a US citizen, it really will make no difference).

Also, I doubt they would have made the offer based on your current location, they will ask your point of origin, which you will correctly state is the US, if they as for further proof, all you have to do is send them a copy of your passport.

I have to say, your posts do have a whiff of paranoia, personally I would not approach your negotiations in this way, it will only set HR's backs up. Please note they deal with overseass hires on a daily basis, you are not unique to them.

Mandi you’re right – I will make my case (just as I’m attempting to here) to QP HR. That said, I seriously wonder whether my assertions (however valid they may be) are going to elicit any consideration from HR.

But first things first – I really need to have a sense that given the combination of job role, key responsibilities and credentials required, is Grade 15 where they would place such a person who meets the requirements? If so, I would do exactly what jjj75 had suggested - i.e. try to negotiate for the maximum possible salary within the associated range. However if I am being assigned to Grade 15 when the role typically would be associated with Grades 16/17/18, I wouldn’t even bother working for QP. For what that would tell me is that I'm being expected to perform and contribute at the Grade 16/17/18 level while being paid for Grade 15 – not an enviable situation to be in!

Thank you all for responding to my post – your feedback, queries, recommendations are greatly appreciated.

jjj75, am responding to a few questions/opinions you voiced. First off, yes the job description did mention the role needing a MBA (which I do). It also mentioned requiring an undergraduate degree in a technical field, preferably engineering (which again I do). In fact the very last line of the 3rd paragraph of my original post refers to ‘relevant’ experience and academic credentials. When I used that word (i.e. relevant), I was using with regards to the role requirements, not with regards to the salary/grade level the sum total of all my credentials garnered to date should command.

All I am interested in potentially learning from feedback provided by members (preferably possessing firsthand knowledge on QP’s salary grade placements), is whether QP is assigning me to the appropriate grade level, based on: (i) the combination of experiences and academic qualifications they themselves are specifying (and which I possess) - not anything ‘extra’ I bring to the table by virtue of additional work experiences or academic degrees, and (ii) my personal profile (nationality, where I work, etc.). WIA (western inducement allowance) – something you’re interested in knowing about - is related to the second point. It is an allowance given to western expats for ‘inducing’ them to come to Qatar. So why am I not being offered that? Do I stop being ‘western’ – either by virtue of nationality or work credentials - by relocating to the east for an expat assignment (and having been there for just over a year, compared to the remainder of my experiences (over 17 years) earned in the west)?

If QP HR has some policy that dictates a person’s current location as the basis for WIA eligibility (and not his length of stay there or his home base or the geographical base of the bulk of his experience) – then such a policy is absurd and unfair at best, diabolically empowered to be exploitative at worst. And here’s the reason why – Where were the experiences and competencies for which I am being recruited (and which I am expected to apply to the job) primarily earned - in the West, or on in the location of my current expat assignment (that coincidentally doesn’t happen to be in the West)? And yet it’s not as I would (willingly or not) be able to compartmentalize my experiences based on where I accrued them, applying only the non-western parts of it to my role in QP! That’s absolutely bizarre!

Unless QP’s HR has a different set of answers to the questions I asked in the preceding paragraph (than what’s borne out through my certificates, references, background checks, you name it) – I can arrive at no other conclusion that QP not only being able, but willing to exploit a candidate’s personal circumstances to its advantage. Not saying QP is legally entitled/not entitled to do so – just saying that’s the way it is.

From my personal experience, the only thing you can negotiate is your basic salary. Go with a counteroffer explaining that you deserve more than what you were offered with facts supporting your assertions, and you should get a small raise. You can also claim your WIA if you convince them that you're a westerner and planning to move back to the US after your India stint. Don't be too greedy and know that your counteroffer will be your last as they will come back with a final offer. Ask for a reasonable raise and you'll find a common ground. Besides, is there anyone who knows the maximum of basic salary within grade 16 at QP? Good luck

Yes, you do. My personal thanks.

Mandi

thanks, I come in useful very occasionally on QL!

Aha, an informed opinion! Bless you, child, you restore my faith in QL!

Mandi

Actually Mandi it is fairly straight forward. The grade will have been set a long time ago - that is what the Comp and Bens part of HR do, probably based on set scales - Hay is one of them and Watson and Wyatt another. it is not based on that particular person. It relates to the role and what is required, ie how many years experience is necessary, what educational level etc.

They almost certainly already have people working there doing the same job so they already know the grade it is pitched at. So, if he has a masters but the job only requires a Bachelors degree, it won't make a difference to the grade but the salary offered could be different but only within the grade set. Also the salary scales are quite wide within each grade - this is what he need to negotiate on, not the grade

I'm thinking it's probably a waste of your time asking our uninformed opinions on a rather technical issue. You'd be better off writing a convincing response to QP's offer, pointing out your position rather than guessing that their's is motivated by God-knows-what.

Mandi

What is WIA first off. Also, did the job require a masters? If not, this will not be factored in. If the job did require a masters then maybe it would be at a higher grade, just because you have one, does not automatically put you in a higher grade. You could be a professor of astro-physics but if that is not what the job required, it is irrelevant. As to your ethnic background nationality, other companies may factor this in but I doubt QP would. The grade relates to what is required for the role not the experience/qualifications you have, ie it is not specific to you and has been pre-set, probably some time back. Also, the benefits are set in stone and do not relate specifically to you, bar whether you are on family status or not. The only thing you can negotiate is the salary within the grade.

What they do do here is give women lower salaries based on the fact that they probably are not the 'main' bread winner and probably don't need the money LOL!!!

if you dont like it simply ignore the offer.

well... do not accept the offer if you feel that way.. it's just as simple as that.. i also work in QP and very happy with the grade they gave me when I joined the organization...