Would women priests lessen abuse?
Would more women in Catholic Church reduce abuse?
By Tom Evans, CNN
March 18, 2010 -- Updated 0209 GMT (1009 HKT)
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
(CNN) -- With the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church spreading, a leading religious scholar said Wednesday that a greater female presence in the church hierarchy would have helped prevent the crisis from worsening.
"It is clear that, statistically, women abuse much less than men. And in terms of reporting, are much more likely to (report abuse)," Serene Jones, president of the Union Theological Seminary in New York, told CNN's Christiane Amanpour.
"It would make a big difference if my Catholic women students at the seminary were in positions of power right now. This would not be handled this way at all," she said.
"I hope the presence of women would make a difference and that there would be more reporting of the abuse," said Janet Smith, chair of life ethics at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit. "But I've looked into some of the studies done on sexual abuse in the public school system, which is quite enormous."
She said she did not know if the evidence supported Jones' statement.
"I'd like to see a study done that shows that women are more effective in reporting the abuse that's being done in the public school system, and that would then confirm the hope that a greater presence of women would expose abuse more frequently."
The scholars' comments come as Pope Benedict XVI faces more questions about his role, if any, in what many say is a cover-up of the child abuse scandal over decades, a cover-up that critics say goes to the highest levels of the Catholic Church.
One of the worst affected countries is Ireland. The deeply Catholic country has been badly shaken by a government-backed report that found the Archdiocese of Dublin and other Catholic Church authorities covered up widespread child abuse by priests from 1975 to 2004.
Pope Benedict XVI said Wednesday that he has finished writing his official statement, or pastoral letter, on the scandal in Ireland.
He will sign the letter Friday and send it "soon after," Benedict told the faithful in an address on St. Patrick's Day.
"My hope is that it will help in the process of repentance, healing and renewal," he said.
Some critics of the Catholic Church say there will never be renewal so long as it maintains its policy of celibacy for priests.
Jones told Amanpour: "The fact that we insist on celibacy in the Catholic Church and that women are excluded, that double combination ... shows us a church that lives in a bubble."
She also strongly rejected the idea that priests have to be men.
"The majority of Catholics in this country (the United States) agree it is an archaic argument and it's one that is bound to oppress."
Smith was unimpressed. "Women can be Christ-like as well as any man, but we wouldn't choose a woman to play the role of Hamlet, right?"
She added that women play a big role in the structure of the Catholic Church, holding 23 percent of the top "power positions" in the United States, 48 percent of the administrative positions and 80 percent of all paid positions.
Jones, however, said those statistics were meaningless as long as women cannot be priests.
"We have women that are running all sorts of things, but they are not allowed in the most important position of all, which is the priesthood."
Smith countered: "I disagree that the priesthood is the most important position in the church. Every human soul has the obligation to seek holiness. And the power that the true Catholic wants is the power to serve as Christ served."
how will prescribed text need any alteration if it so was prescribed... unless it wasn't...
I think priests should be able to marry and have families. Then more "stable" men would consider entering priesthood. And they would be more effective if they could relate to parishioners' lives.
Even allowing them to practice polygamy would be an advantage as charity work for those badly in need.
Maybe priests can allow minimizing celibacy and start getting a wife like what pastors of Protestants do. ;-)
"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach
Finally! Someone who agrees with me! Thanks Cookie Monster.
Straight Arrow these aren't men who have been put in a solitary confinement, they are just men who've taken a vow of celibacy. It's not like the Catholic Church goes around putting iron underwear on them. If they are that desperate for release there are lots of other options besides abusing children, options that are much less sinful, or they could simply leave the priesthood if they can't hack it. The fact of the matter is 96% of Priests do manage to live a life of celibacy (or at least manage not to abuse children) so why should these 4% be excused because they aren't allowed to marry?
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
As already said above It makes no difference to the individual being married or selebate male or female making them attracted to young children, They are just bad sick people that have wangled themselfs into a trusted institution.
I don't think putting women in as the "safer bet" would be the cure for this problem, although a mixed gender policy holding the position has other benifits.
Steps to cure this problem IMO should be-
Much better vetting of anyone put in a postion of power and responsibility with Children?
A easy to access healther system of reporting fears/situations/acts for children were they 100% confident to talk about any fears etc. And an sutible support system to listen and follow them up.
Reports of individuals having commited acts and just being moved to another parish make my blood boil?
A much much much harsher punishment for individuals? (Which I should probably not write my ideas on this, but it envolves petrol and a match)
is the absence of marriage life in the priest life. Now imagine you bring one person and put him in jail or closed room for ever, this person is only allowed to eat good food and use the toilet only, this person will become crazey and might suicide or do bad things when he/she see other person.
Human Can not live without freedome.
Freedome without limits brings chaos.
Chaos destroys comunities.
Respecting others freedome is our right towards them.
Thats right. 4% is very much too much. The ideal is zero when it comes to be the champion of religion. And the 4% can be forgiven to be the victim of circumstances. Afterall no life is perfect.
Well women certainly make the world a better place . but women are also Human with same peccadilloes . Parents and society at large needs to ensure that peodos dont get into places where they have access to children and parents should actually listen to their children when they are telling them about something.
There are a lot of sick people in the world WK.
Yes bleu those native Canadians.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
These native Canadians?
The cover up is not surprising. In present day scenario, when more and more people are turning away from religion, they don't want such scandals to come to light.
As for paedophiles opting for priesthood as it provides them easy access to children, maybe that is what is happening but maybe I don't want to believe that human beings can be so sick.
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Stone Cold if you read Straight Arrows article you would see that it is already "minimally" occurring with only 4% of Priests being accused of abuse. The shocking thing is what the Catholic Church did to cover it up.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Interesting article Straight Arrow, thanks for that.
Perhaps the reason for the "high" number of boys being abused in the Catholic church is that until the last decade or so the Catholic church was still somewhat segregated, in that boys and girls orphanages were usually kept separate and Priests rarely had solitary access to girls.
Vicariously to carry on with what you're saying, In Canada we had a similar issue as the Catholic Church with Residential schools (one of the more misguided government initiatives to try and make the Native Canadians fit in) There was a huge amount of abuse at these boarding schools across the board, with most of them being run by Protestant Church groups. Which is why I say the celibacy factor isn't the issue, the issue is that the Priesthood, (as is being a teacher, coach, etc,) is a very attractive job to a pedophile.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Thats the best word to avoid conflict of interest by both christian and others for the sake of discussion. Of course christianity very much believe that he never got married and dedicate his life to holiness. The catholics priest believes very much in this and thats the reason why they do not get married. And naturally all of us human do have feelings, which include the urge to have sex, be it of what ever form. And yes, the bottom line is if they are allowed to get married, such thing will minimally occurs.
"Thats one mistake by Jesus himself who was assumed of never being married"
Your above statement has the word assumed which means people are not sure about Jesus marriage, then how can we blame a person by assuming only?
Simply we can not blame some one if we do not know the complete fact
Any have a look at this part of the article below which is very interesting:
It is from the guardian
Catholic child abuse in proportionMany Catholic priests and religious have abused children in their care. But is the church's record worse than the world's?
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There seems to be no end to the scandals buffeting the Roman Catholic church about the abuse of children; most recently in Germany, where the headmaster a school associated with a choir once run by the pope's elder brother Georg Ratzinger has been exposed as an abuser. And there is no doubt that a lot of children were damaged for life by priests, and that this was mostly covered up by the hierarchy until recently. But was the Catholic church unfairly singled out? Aren't all children vulnerable to exploitation, especially when they are poor and unwanted?
These questions lead into a thicket of horror. The most detailed statistics on child abuse for the Catholic clergy that I can find come from the John Jay Institute's report drawn up for the American Catholic bishops' conference. From this it emerges that the frequency of child abuse among Catholic priests is not remarkable but its pattern is. Although there are no figures for the number of abusers in the wider population, there are figure for the number of victims. These vary wildly: the most pessimistic survey finds that 27% of American women and 16% of men had "a history of childhood sexual abuse"; while the the most optimistic had 12.8% of women and 4.3% of men. Obviously a great deal depends here on the definition of abuse; also on the definition of "childhood". In some of these surveys it runs up to 18, which is a couple of years above the age of consent in Britain.
Complete article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/mar/11/catholic-abuse-priests
Thats one mistake by Jesus himself who was assumed of never being married (the only prophet that never got married). And it constitutes to the current precedences by catholic churches.
Sexual deprivation and frustration leads the priests to resort to all kinds of perverse acts. Children are easy target and I guess when one gets away once he becomes a habitual offender. Similarly women who personnally visit priests for prayers, amulets, guidance etc are also sexually taken advantage of and so too are nuns
No. You can't make someone sexually attracted to children. There guys had just as easy access to Nuns & female parishioners who would also not have said anything if they'd been raped.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Maybe it's the other way round, they were normal human beings, took a vow of celibacy. Still have sexual urges as that is normal, looked around, saw those kids as a soft target and did that shameful act.
Maybe this system is creating paedophiles.
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As I've said before, they're not being able to marry has nothing to do with it. You don't rape little boys & girls simply because you aren't allowed to marry. You rape little boys & girls cause you're a pedophile and you became a priest because that gave you easy access to little boys & girls.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
I just think they should be allowed to get married.
Hindu priests mostly live with their wives and children in temples, certainly reduces the chances of any such abuse.
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The report of abuse should be encouraged from the parents and parents where ever they are should make the girl as important as the boy.
A woman will be more relaxed to report to a women priest rather than to a man priest.
Another point here is the abuse, what things will cause people to be abused and how it can be stopped?
Answering the above question will bring more benefit from this thread.
No I don't think they are resigned to that. The issue of female priests has been around for awhile, though this is a new take of it. Before allowing female priests was considered a way to stop the declining number of men entering the priesthood as woman are more likely to take a vow of celibacy.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
SO are they resigned to the fact that male priests will always indulge in sexual abuse?
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No, Women can be just as bad as Men.
what difference would it make.
More women go to church than men anyway.
This will be implemented very very slowly if at all. This is being forced upon the Church because of pressure. Too many people leaving Catholic ideals. So the power presige and the coffers of the Church are getting depleted fast.
And all these scandals are not helping. It is a brilliant way to divert attention. And people will forget the real issus if only one woman priest is ordained albeit in an obscure town and position
Perhaps, although I doubt any further cases of abuse will be kept quiet regardless of who's higher on the food chain. The damage has been done.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
the more women, the more temptations..
...lower status in the church hierarchy. Once women come in position;things will change.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
I don't think it will in the aspect that they would report it. The Nun's knew for ages what the Priests were doing and they never said anything to anyone.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
within the church and will empower women to make decisions.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"