Why the double standard?

@Kareena74 feel free to visit even without any cloths. but don't forget the scene's your country is facing now. I mean "RAPES". and for that reason even your moderate country even thinking to impose the Islamic Law same like Saudi Arabia to controls the rapes.

or becomes a victim of religion :)

So we conclude, do wateva u girls like. Like GG said. But respect the culture and traditions of the place that you live in. :)

Every topic in QL ends up in India or Indians....

Its amazing how simplest of things result in big time arguments.

Cover or not to cover is an individual's choice. Now who disagrees with that? I am sure no one.

However, respecting the culture of a particular country matters. If you don't live according to the environment, you are the odd one out. It brings about all the negative attention to you.

Ok, think of it this way. Will you wear a bikini in the office? I am sure you won't. Why? Because there is an office decorum, or an office norm or an office culture. Of course you have the choice but you don't because you know you will be the odd one out. Same happens when you don't respect a country's culture. You're the odd one out.

Well HGL, hominds left Africa and migrated through the Arabian peninisular first before hugging the coast line of south asian. So you can say Indians are decended from 'Arabs' although arabs didn't exist at that time as a seperate race or culture.

The really dark Indians in the south are old remanents of the migration from Africa and have close genetic links to Australian aborigines.

Or you can say god did it. With magic. And Fairies.

I need painther to appear on this thread to clarify and confirm the origins of north Indians as migrant Arabs...:)

Sun: Your claim lacks the supporting evidence.

Anyway just because Islamic influence was concentrated around the northern states due to the political powers of the Maghul Sultans doesn’t necessarily mean they all hailed from outside.

Poor ladies..rofl!!!

Please leave the ladies alone...:((((

MN I am quite sure of that most of the northern Indians (even Hindus) are migrant Arabs. The words like 'Ghee' which are considered very old are used the same way in Egypt. Many of the Rajasthanis and Gujrathi Hindus are proud of their 'Shah' surnames even today. Please read what was the origin of 'Rajpoots'.

i'm not defending the veil, i'm defending the right to choice

sun26872 : Are you sure about that? because big chunk of those northern women are traditional Hindu women from historically traditional proud Hindu households. I sincerely invite you to revise your comment.

KR ,, Freedom simply, Is to let everybody do what he/she wants.

And as long as the woman is satisfied, she is free to wear what she wants, and In Islam it is a rule, and please don't let us discuss Islam rules here again, we did million times , and you already do that.

RC, They are open minded in their own way, and I will ask you again, what is the Definition of the word "Open mind"

Enough of this, can someone send me a girl in an abaya and a hijab with an open mind....

Fathima, I fully agree with your conclusive remark. However, we also know that, universally, one of the ways women like to indulge in, is decking themselves up and looking good infront of others. This is a female trait that goes across cultures, traditions, nationalities, races and eras. If a handful of them have thought otherwise to set themselves apart from others, I would treat them as exceptions.

A woman should have the right to cover herself for whatever reason she may chose, without being harmed, oppressed and judged. Just as no woman should be forced to cover up against her will.

They are no celebrities. Just everyday ladies like myself. And like any other human being I do doubt their claims but then I feel ashamed for doing so. Of course I cant name any I know personally for privacy reasons,But yeah I have found a few ladies on youtube. So you can check them out. I'll send you a PM of a couple or so of them. Warning though! Some of them go into long explanations..

Fathima, you said you knew some non-muslim 'achievers' who had chosen to wear hijab. If they were really achievers, they must be small time celebrities!!

Can you name at least one of them and I would like to google her out to know more about her?

Those who are not even Muslims, who have chosen to wear hijab. Why? Well they say it is something they wish to do for themselves so that they will be known for their achievements and character rather than how they look. Do I understand them? Not really to be honest. But I guess to each their own! Bdw you might be able to find some of these ladies on youtube. Aka "non Muslim hijabis"

Fathima, I was making a general statement based on what I have observed in this part of the world. You cover yourself to please your God. Some do to please their parents and others do to please their husbands.

Show me one women who covers herself from head to toe in public just to please herself?

I don't assume my wearing hijab is going to absolve men of their responsibilities of how to behave towards women. Neither do I believe I am now safer than any other woman. In fact, as many already know, I often point out that even women who chose to cover up are often still victims of sexual harassment, including myself.

Sulie, The word 'freedom' doesn't mean the same to all. There is no absolute freedom in any society. There are restrictions and norms for each one of us just to ensure peace and harmony in the society we live in. Other than this, if additional restrictions are imposed, it goes against freedom as per my definition. And I don't think women need to cover themselves from head to toe in public to ensure peace and harmony in the society unless ofcourse you consider men to be so bestial that they would pounce on every other women who didn't wear the veil.

Fatima, this is the only thread where I have found you making irrational logics......Your whole theory is based upon the assumption that all the women of this world are well provided and have choices of doing comfortable desk jobs in nice posh offices.............open your eyes and look around. there are those women who walk 10 km everyday to get a pail of water.......there are women who need to plough their field.....don't do the injustice of making them handicap by justifying the fashion of veils enjoyed by rich Arab ladies.Making it compulsory is discriminatory, inhuman and immoral.

Where do I make such statements? I mentioned only that I cover by choice based on my religious convictions, which I did not even go into detail over, as this is not the place for a religious debate. It is not me or for any human being to make any matter of religion compulsory. Neither do I look down on anyone who chooses not to cover as I do. This post is about women having the right to dress as they choose without people making assumptions as to why they wear what they wear. And my response was to KR. I explained to him that covering up was not something I was conditioned to do from childhood(quite on the contrary!)and that no man in my life had anything to do with my decision.

Yes Marcoz I will say the same thing about those women and those societies of northern India as well. And at this point, I will remind you that many of these backward northern communities are of Arab origin whose forefathers immigrated to India many centuries ago. Arab communities are very materialistic and most of their tradition and customs are in line with their ambitions of acquiring maximum by hook or crook.

I certainly wasn't conditioned from birth. Covering up was and still is far from being a part of my family's culture and the way of the society around me back then. In fact I got quite a lot of flack from both my family and others known to me when I chose to dress as I do, around ten years ago. And the same goes to most, if not all, the ladies I know who chose to cover from head to toe as you aptly put it. They all do it by free will and have never had any man dictate to them what to do.

As to why we chose to do so, then this is of cos personal to each one of us so I cannot speak on behalf of everyone. In my case it is due to my religious beliefs. No man had any say in my choice!

KR , Define Freedom and answer yourself :)

If some women want to always cover themselves from head to toe in public, I see it as a result of social conditioning imposed by men over women across generations.

Whatever we see in the family and around us in the society becomes a norm for us. That gets into our nature and becomes a part of our behaviour.

I pity the women who and whose ancesters have had to go through such a social conditioning.

Who would really want to cover herself from head to toe always in public if she was not conditioned from birth?

Do you really call it freedom?

I still find it strange, that despite all those ladies out there around the world choosing to cover by their own free will and making their intentions known loud and clear, some people still perceive the jilbab/abaya/hijab/niqab to be a sign of oppression and assumes anyone who adorns it to be forced by a male relative. Sure there are those who are, and that is obviously something condemnable, but one should not make that assumption.

In fact in recent years I know more women now forced to uncover, by their fathers, husbands, society etc, than those forced to cover...very sad really! Freedom of choice is still a luxury not everyone can afford despite all the advancements made in the world!

nomerci ,, Didn't you see any naked run?

Just search for

"Nude Tiger Activists Run Amok In London Zoo"

It is not the only thing we have

But you know what, I don't care who is wearing what

their life, their style!

Sun: can we say the same about women in much of the northern and central of India, particularly in rural areas whose's tradition is to veil their faces with their sari's in the presence of foreign men?

Who is walking naked where?

I agree BG

BTW, for all whom are defending the Non-coverd women

When a woman walk naked, nobody say anything, she is open minded!

But when a woman is wearing Abaya, some people starts to say it is stone ages or it is backward or whatever

This is what this thread all about.

But in the end, it is all about the WOMAN herself not what she is wearing.

People comparing women to candies are sad example of religious blindness. Women are not candies. They are human.They have ego, emotion and they do get hungry and feel pain. Asking a woman to be restricted under the veil reduces her chances of her personal development and also her earning capabilities. In short, her abaya ensures male domination of society. And probably that's the reason why Abayas are so popular in Arab world. It has more to do with control of resources by male members of the family than the religion itself. A woman should have an opportunity to choose her way of life.Things starts getting wrong for women when men start dictating to her what is right and what is wrong.

the clue is in the abaya sherlock:-)

you made my day again! ^_^

No, I had no problems. I just wondered how she sneaked out of the house without her husband knowing.

indeed..so i take it you had no problems whatsoever with her being commando underneath or with her wearing the abaya?

I used to think it was, no messing about.

how convenient

HGL agree also :)

Kareena there is a difference between Micro minis & tank tops & head scarves isn't it.You have a choice to go or avoid such places if you want.

I always believe in respecting the culture of the country we live it.

Even in western world most of the people dress modestly only a handful dress scantily and its their choice, no judging here.

It should be entirely up to the individual how she wants to dress or not.

I used to have a girlfriend who wore an abaya when out but when she got to my house she would drop it and had nothing on underneath. ;-0

I just saw a bunch of 'em in the old market last night.

Whom did you see in the old market..bunch of whom

BOXBE16DOBARA : I just saw a bunch of 'em in the old market last night.

side note: It 'd do you so much good if you stopped making loose statements.

u said SOME GCC and then u say only saudi

Boxbe, Can you make out from the pic, if she is westerner or no?

Only Saudi forces everyone to wear abaya but even the more liberal Arab countries still do not allow western women to go around wearing micro minis or shorts with tank tops or bikini tops in public.. they are advised to dress moderately which I don't mind really but then the western countries do not tell the Arabs to remove their headscarves when they travel to US or UK..

kareena in some gcc...in qatar or dubai never saw a westerner in abaya

hmmmmmmmm agree agree

and that is why I don't agree with some countries especially one particular country which enforces everyone to wear an abaya even if their religious beliefs do not support this kind of attire.. So it this theory holds true then the opposite should also be allowed that if a woman is allowed to cover up I mean the Arabs and other Muslims are allowed to wear headscarves when they travel to western countries but western women are forced to cover up in some GCC and Arab countries.. That is not fair..

Rizks u will have to cover up ( the head part ) if u want to meet her

can i have the address of tat gal whose pic is up there...she is so cute !

Who is stopping her from showing off? Its her choice...

"If a woman is free to cover her body, why wouldn't she be free to show it off" - could'nt agree more

How will you know if its good or bad? by the shape of the candy? LOL

I like women who are covered up. It's like opening a chocolate wrapper to get to the sweet inside. They are normally the dirtest girls as well.

That's why fly swatters are for. :P

Depends on the candy itself...if it is good the flies will come irrespective and if not they wouldn't, whether wrapped or not wrapped...:)

A open candy without wrapper will attract more flies..:) some candies like flies.. some dont.. those candies which dont like to attract flies would keep themselves wrapped in colourful paper..:)

GG so sweet :)

Wait for it.....

Wait for it ....

Agree :)

Would the reverse, "If a woman is free to cover her body, why wouldn't she be free to show it off", be also true.

Of course she should be free to cover her body if she wishes. It is a personal choice.

Agreed 100%. Your Life ur choice :)