Why don't the laborers have masks?

Sorry guys we are all dying due to the high rate of pollution we are in a country with tons of industries that are polluting the air. Their is a huge rise in asthma. It is a shame that workers are not suppiled with proper gear.

It doesn't have to push in defense with each other. I see it as TWO identifiable and common reasons.

There really looks like a cultural issue (with the numbers of hired people of certain nationalities) AND the same issue becomes the "justifiable" poor reason to not meet to the standards of law/safety program/health issue enforcement...keeping the money laundering hidden under pretense over the said two reasons.

"Everything in this book may be wrong." Illusions: The Adventures of The Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach

Am 100% with Olive on this one.

They are taught what they need to know, they are supplied with what they need.

They refuse to use it? Ah well, life is a cruel teacher. After all, a construction, oil etc. site is not a kindergarten . If companies are supposed to hold their wokers hand, they might as well hire workers who actually know what they are doing, might come cheaper in the end.

These people have to learn to follow rules, even if they are not supervised.

What comes around, goes around....

I better take my much needed coffee break... (i was hoping olive wud offer to buy us coffee) ;-)

Say what??? Last night??? I din't know jack 5hit about it...

Colt45,

youre asking for trouble ;)

you better get that guard used in cricket on you know which one i mean. coz i am going to crack your bolts soon for not showing up last night

on which head??? lmao!!!

hard hat on

;)

Get your "Safety" gear on buddy... you're gonna need it.. ;-)

hehehehe

well this beautiful chick still did show some respect and punched me in ribs. in your case i will say may lord have mercy on you.

DaRude,

hehehehe, did she hurt you that bad?

She is one meanie rude barbarian kinda girl trust me.

Olive,

"I dont fight with a girl." means that I respect you as a human being and will not call you names, even when you are being rude.

;)

being from QA myself, I hear ya!

Now shush, before you get another rib broken... she's back with a vengeance... ;-)

I know Colt45, and I appreciate that.

There was no competition here to loose or win.

Anyone who understands the whole process and how it can be controlled, would not reach any other conclusion.

that wolf had to get his dirty paws in here and scared her off... now he take the back seat??? ;-)

isnt scared of me

last time she punched me in ribs

and my one rib is broken now. :/

"I dont fight with a girl."

And you just proved where your attitude is coming from.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Colt45,

that's because she is a bad looser...hehehehe

(just kidding)

Dude... I'm with you on this one... I say it too, not enough is being done by the authorities to enforce it.

you scared her off... bugger off now will ya... ;-)

Colt45 /DaRude,

heheehh... too bad, you wont have a show here.

I dont fight with a girl.

;)

Olive,

You just showed us how mature you are and that makes you loose the argument.

It was nice to debate with you because you motivated all of us to clarify and widen your knowledge.

Excuse for my harsh tone, but you provoked it with your "ROFLMAO!!!!!! Obviously you don't work in the industry!"

Be humble and polite, otherwise you'll be damaging yourself ;)

why didnt you invite me here.

hold it let me get my ciggies.

rounnddddd 2 (get me some popcorn and a soda)

Nic how about you google "not being an asshole" and tell me what that says.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Olive,

How can you say that law enforcement from higher level in there when it gets lost at mid level?

Don't you know that higher level's responsibility is to ensure that the enforcement is applied all the way until the lowest level?

If any level fails, is always the higher level's responsibility!

Do Google for management theory and as you are at it rule of law ;)

we need to break for coffee... who's buying??? ;-)

I think we are at a point to agree to disagree?

It gets lost because there is not enough monitoring from the authority. That is when companies tend to take it easy.

I will go with NIC on this. You're making excuses about things not working rather than saying, not enough is being done by the authorities.

There was a time when no one on the airside gave a damn about wearing a hi-viz vest at DIA. Go now and see if you find even one person without it. Kudos to the authorities for "enforcing" at ALL levels!

From the high level the enforcement is there, unfortunately it gets lost around the mid-level, when you start getting to their supervisors from their own countries.

Colt, do you honestly think any company is stupid enough not to do those things? I'm saying they don't work.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Olive,

How can “statistics” speak by itself in countries like Qatar?

For the last time, law enforcement ONLY works when it is driven from the highest level all the way to the bottom.

Obviously if the enforcement from the highest levels is missing, how can an individual at mid level can convince workers to wear PPE?

Google also for leadership and management theory ;)

Who said anything about it being solved easily... make a start, you will only get results once you make a start.... at least! ;-)

I assure you Colt, the last thing we are doing is ignoring the problem, and if it were to be solved that easily, it would be.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

And life experience doesn't replace facts and statistics. I'm happy you had a good experience with safety in South Korea, my experiences in South Korea were the exact opposite, and the facts and statistics speak for themselves.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Take away their license to work if they don't give a rats a55 about safety, get in another company to complete the job. There needs to be an SLA in place at the time of contract that can be monitored to ensure requirements that affect the safety are fulfilled. You need to make a start somewhere, rather than just ignore the problem.

Where there is a will there is a way.

Olive,

Sorry for the tone, but I am getting a bit impatient here.

As I said, go there and manage construction sites for 5 years and then come back and we'll continue the discussion.

Google doesn't replace life experience!

We do fine the companies they work for. Unfortunately they are already working at a deficit, so really adding more fines isn't effective. In fact it just makes them push their guys harder so they try and make the money back and safety get's pushed to the wayside when money is on the line.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

It may be a bit hard, but you have to do it to get results... the salons all over doha are not few btw, but they have started the drive to fine all those erring.

Enforce the penalty on the company they're working for. They are all supervised labor and so the company that employs them, needs to ensure they work by the books!

Bit hard to fine 30,000 people. Really positive reinforcement works better in these cases.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

diehardcanonuser ...

"One of our most sucessful talks was to have ten guys come up to the front of the group some we blindfolded some we taped their hands up to simulate different injures etc etc then asked them to tie their shoes"

I didnot get this part...are they not able to do it with the blindfold?...it doesnt look too hard? Or is it?

as much as i may hate to say it, but deduction a days wage. Now you will say that they don't get paid for three and four months, but when they do, deduct it then.

Make them work overtime for an hour. Where is the humanity huh? I know... but that is the only way they learn... like our good friends the barbers have.

How do you fine someone with no money Colt?

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

staff from the 3rd world countries also cut hair in salons around doha, but you will always find them wearing the mask and the white overall now since the "baladiya" is imposing strict fines on them if they don't. It don't require you to be from the 1st world countries to understand simple right and wrong!

It's all about enforcing penalties on people who violate the law!

diehardcanonuser, we do the same thing, but it does take time and when you get a new influx of guys "off the boat" so to speak every week, things will happen. We make sure every person who goes out has the proper training and safety inductions, in their language, but when they get out on site, they go and do the exact opposite of what they've been told.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Just looked at South Korea actually, due to an incident here, and they have had 5 similar incidents in the last year to our 1. So I question as to whether you think it's as good as you say it is.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

PPE is your last line of defence, mentoring them to understand working safe is of greater benefit to them and their families takes time but can be taught its a matter on how you teach them. We use toolbox talk and JHA reviews every morning before they start work and give out prizes for the most safest crew of the week. One of our most sucessful talks was to have ten guys come up to the front of the group some we blindfolded some we taped their hands up to simulate different injures etc etc then asked them to tie their shoes, you just have to make it interactive in order to make them think about it.

"Every moment spent planning saves

three or four in execution"

-Crawford Greenwalt

Olive,

I invite you to go and have a look at the same workers in:

Hong Kong

Singapore

Japan

South Korea

where law and enforcement are not treated lightly, like in the Gulf countries.

And then come back to me and say that third world workers cannot learn how and when to where PPE in the Construction, Oil and Gas and other industries!

Perhaps not in building construction, but they are doing it in oil and gas. The employers, management, etc are all being fined for lack of safety standards, etc. Still not working. You can't take money away from people who are already loosing money on a project.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Olive,

Your experience seems to be limited and you lack a bit of understanding of the whole process of law enforcement!

The basic requirements to succeed are:

THE LAW &

THE ENFORCEMENT (and this includes, training, auditing, penalties, etc...)

Not on the poor victims, but on the employers. The government is doing nothing to enforce the substandard HSE requirements... just like the traffic rules.

lol

Apparently hopscotch. They're pretty good about helmets, but gloves and safety goggles, UGh! It's like trying to get a toddler to eat their peas.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Olive, you certainly add a new perspective to all of this.

gadarene the health care industry is deplorable...there is so much that people don't know here. I guess that's for another thread.

If you start firing them, that doesn't solve the problem gadarene, they just get picked up by another company that doesn't care about their safety. What we try to do is educate them to use the PPE. But it's not that easy, as I said, there are HUGE cultural issues.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Hopscotch,

Exactly, the surrender attitude of "this is the way it goes here", the negligence from the government spread all the way to the employers, result in what we all see every day around us!

Olive, are these men really willing to lose their jobs and lively hood over a mask or safety hat?

But you just said it yourself garadene "a complete lack of awareness" they don't know what they're doing is wrong. The problem lies in the fact that their management probably doesn't even know what their doing is wrong. That's what happens when you hire your entire staff from Third World countries.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

@ Olive,would you rather take away their livelihood or risk having them go back home minus a limb or two,paralysed waist down or worst case, in a body bag?...

I kind of have my reservations that the laborers refuse to wear the safety equipment being seen as sign of their weakness even if supplied and that it has got to do something with the home countries they come from...keeping in view that they are most ill treated people without any voice as then that amounts to saying no to your employer which I dont think they would dare do or are in a position to do.

________________________________________

One life to live, live it to the fullest.

Well I don't know what they do in Hong Kong, but we've done everything we can here and they still refuse to wear it. If they're comfortable firing these guys in Hong Kong, well good for the Chinese, but we're not as comfortable taking away someone's lively hood because they aren't educated enough to know better.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

Have to go with Nic on this one,Olive i definitely don't work in the construction industry but i am in the healthcare industry where again laws on sterlisation are flouted regularly & often with a complete lack of awareness...is there a law against those practices here? there certainly is...on paper...is anybody enforcing it? absolutely not...enforcement of the law IMHO is half the battle...

I agree Nic, if these guys aren't given a choice they will have to use the H & S equipment...which is better for them and their employers.

Olive that's interesting, considering we just judge by what we see. Really unless you are in the industry how would you know there are cultural obstacles to health and safety equipment? It still sounds bizarre.

Olive,

LOL... now you are the one that makes me laugh with your assumptions!

I do actually work in the industry and believe me I've seen workers from the same origins in let's say, Hong Kong, that have no choice: either they learn (with adequate training) the requirement by LAW to wear PPE, or they are out of the job.

You see Olive when the LAW, the enforcement, the penalties and the integrity of a nation is there, miracles cam be done.

Trust me I’ve worked in the industry even in poorer countries ;)

Not true Brit. Many of these companies do have all those things, more then they need, and are literally giving them to the workers everyday, and they don't use them.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

What are the consultants doing?

Not true Brit. Many of these companies do have all those things, more then they need, and are literally giving them to the workers everyday, and they don't use them.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

All to do with money. No masks, no sfatery harnesses, no steel capped boots ..

Snessy...and I compared Qatar H&S with that of India or some other countries which can be considered at par....:)

________________________________________

One life to live, live it to the fullest.

Yeah, but Nic, laborers are a dime a dozen here - unfortunate but true. For most Canadians and Americans they would rather collect government/social assistance before going out to do hard labor.

That's why laborers in Western countries are paid so well, not because we are more fair, but the demand is high and supply is rather low.

There are still instances of exploitation of illegal laborers by North Americans..if they can get away with it.

ROFLMAO!!!!!! Obviously you don't work in the industry! If only it was that easy! It's called completely changing peoples mindsets & cultural attitudes. For many of these guys, wearing gloves or helmets is a sign of "weakness" and they refuse to do it. No matter how many fines, punishments or even positive reinforcements you use, these guys don't change their attitudes.

This is not the fault of Qatar, in this case it's the fault of their home countries.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

@ Olive & Nic,"safety standards","training", "law enforcement"..."your words are strange & alien,i do not understand these words that you say,tell me what do they mean? & what relevance do they have to the topic @ hand?"...*wink*!!

Olive,

It’s called training and law enforcement!

Safety standards are a huge problem here and many companies, especially those in the construction industry, don't supply the basic Personal Protective Equipment these guys need, However, in many cases the guys wouldn't use them even if they did.

"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect." Ambrose Bierce

what a sad world in such a rich country!!!!!!

in Canada labourers can make more money than engineers!!!!

Some companies cut the labourers uniform costs ...from their wages....even the food and bed costs are cut from their wages.....

who cares !!! they are labourers , after all..

Simply...Because they are labourers.

----------------------------------------------------------------Give me some SunShine......Give me some Rain

Give me another Chance...I wanna grow up once Again

Happy, I'm comparing Qatar's H&S to the UK's :-)

*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****

If you consider a scale for Health & Safety Requirements, Human Rights and law enforcement,

countries like: Canada, USA, Australia, Norway, Sweden, Finland, etc... would be at the top of that scale;

and countries like Qatar, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain and Oman would be at the bottom of that scale.

With the aggravated seriousness of being guilty of negligence as most of those mentioned Gulf countries could afford better than the ones on the top of the list, to have higher and enforced Health & Safety standards and why not, more fair and dignifying salaries!

good question

too many labourers wearing flip flops, using electrical equipment dangerously etc hence fires at souq najma etc.

and noms.... you educate people to wear health and safety equipment and work in a safe manner and make it mandatory.

We can think of that as our next volunteer group activity ...maybe we can distribute masks to these labourers.

Health & Safety isnt No. 1 priority in many other countries as well...:)________________________________________

One life to live, live it to the fullest.

their nostrill have built-in filters.

~noms~

-----------------------------------------

"Before God we are all equally wise ' and equally foolish" - Albert Einstein

Like always DaRude starts the posts with a joke..lol

I've seen many labours wearing masks but some probably don't wear with their own wish... maybe they are used to stay witout masks on site.

~noms~

-----------------------------------------

"Before God we are all equally wise ' and equally foolish" - Albert Einstein

Unfortunately, Health & Safety isn't a number 1 priority here :-(

*****If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all*****

Darude thats a lame excuse, if safet shoes and helmets are made mandatory...why not a mask for their health hazard??

masks cost nothing and can be of great benefit for the companies that employ, sponsor, bring these men here. A healthier workforce is clearly going to be more productive than a dying one.

the companies cant afford to pay salary on time and you are asking for masks for about 2000 labors which will cost them pennies. now thats too much that you are asking for.

you are fired no masks for you.

Grow up think about it man :D