Where have all the real men gone?
Top American columnist Kathleen Parker is causing a furore with her new book Save the Males, in which she argues that feminism has neutered men and deprived them of their noble, protective role in society
For the past 30 years or so, males have been under siege by a culture that too often embraces the notion that men are to blame for all of life’s ills. Males as a group – not random men – are bad by virtue of their DNA.
While women have been cast as victims, martyrs, mystics or saints, men have quietly retreated into their caves, the better to muffle emotions that fluctuate between hilarity (are these bitches crazy or what?) and rage (yes, they are and they’ve got our kids).
In the process of fashioning a more female-friendly world, we have created a culture that is hostile towards males, contemptuous of masculinity and cynical about the delightful differences that make men irresistible, especially when something goes bump in the night.
In popular culture, rare is the man portrayed as wise, strong and noble. In film and music, men are variously portrayed as dolts, bullies, brutes, deadbeats, rapists, sexual predators and wife-beaters. Even otherwise easy-going family men in sitcoms are invariably cast as, at best, bumbling, dim-witted fools. One would assume from most depictions that the smart, decent man who cares about his family and pats the neighbour’s dog is the exception rather than the rule.
I am frankly an unlikely champion of males and that most hackneyed cliché of our times – “traditional family values”. Or rather, I’m an expert on family in the same way that the captain of the Titanic was an expert on maritime navigation.
Looking back affectionately, I like to think of home as our own little Baghdad. The bunker-buster was my mother’s death when she was 31 and I was three, whereupon my father became a serial husband, launching into the holy state of matrimony four more times throughout my childhood and early adulthood. We were dysfunctional before dysfunctional was cool.
Going against trends of the day, I was mostly an only child raised by a single father through all but one of my teen years, with mother figures in various cameo roles. I got a close-up glimpse of how the sexes trouble and fail each other and in the process developed great em-pathy for both, but especially for men.
Although my father could be difficult – I wasn’t blinded by his considerable charms – I also could see his struggle and the sorrows he suffered, especially after mother No 2 left with his youngest daughter, my little sister.
From this broad, experiential education in the ways of men and women, I reached a helpful conclusion that seems to have escaped notice by some of my fellow sisters: men are human beings, too.
Lest anyone infer that my defence of men is driven by antipathy towards women, let me take a moment to point out that I liked and/or loved all my mothers. In fact, I’m still close to all my father’s wives except the last, who is just a few years older than me and who is apparently afraid that if we make eye contact, I’ll want the silver. (I do.)
My further education in matters male transpired in the course of raising three boys, my own and two stepsons. As a result of my total immersion in male-dom, I’ve been cursed with guy vision – and it’s not looking so good out there.
At the same time that men have been ridiculed, the importance of fatherhood has been diminished, along with other traditionally male roles of father, protector and provider, which are increasingly viewed as regressive manifestations of an outmoded patriarchy.
The exemplar of the modern male is the hairless, metrosexualised man and decorator boys who turn heter-osexual slobs into perfumed ponies. All of which is fine as long as we can dwell happily in the Kingdom of Starbucks, munching our biscotti and debating whether nature or nurture determines gender identity. But in the dangerous world in which we really live, it might be nice to have a few guys around who aren’t trying to juggle pedicures and highlights.
Men have been domesticated to within an inch of their lives, attending Lamaze classes, counting contractions, bottling expressed breast milk for midnight feedings – I expect men to start lactating before I finish this sentence – yet they are treated most unfairly in the areas of reproduction and parenting.
Legally, women hold the cards. If a woman gets pregnant, she can abort – even without her husband’s consent. If she chooses to have the child, she gets a baby and the man gets an invoice. Unarguably, a man should support his offspring, but by that same logic shouldn’t he have a say in whether his child is born or aborted?
Granted, many men are all too grateful for women to handle the collateral damage of poorly planned romantic interludes, but that doesn’t negate the fact that many men are hurt by the presumption that their vote is irrelevant in childbearing decisions.
NOTHING quite says “Men need not apply” like a phial of mail-order sperm Continued on page 2 Continued from page 1 and a turkey-baster. In the high-tech nursery of sperm donation and self-insemination – and in the absence of shame attached to unwed motherhood – babies can now be custom-ordered without the muss and fuss of human intimacy.
It’s not fashionable to question women’s decisions, especially when it comes to childbearing, but the shame attached to unwed motherhood did serve a useful purpose once upon a time. While we have happily retired the word “bastard” and the attendant emotional pain for mother and child, acceptance of childbearing outside marriage represents not just a huge shift in attitudes but, potentially, a restructuring of the future human family.
By elevating single motherhood from an unfortunate consequence of poor planning to a sophisticated act of self-fulfilment, we have helped to fashion a world in which fathers are not just scarce but in which men are also superfluous.
Something that’s hard for many women to admit or understand is that after about the age of seven, boys prefer the company of men. A woman could know the secret code to Aladdin’s cave and it would be less interesting to a boy than a man talking about dirt. That is because a woman is perceived as just another mother, while a man is Man.
From their mothers, boys basically want to hear variations on two phrases: “I love you” and “Do you want those fried or scrambled?” I learnt this in no uncertain terms when I was a Cub Scout leader, which mysteriously seems to have prompted my son’s decision to abandon Scouting for ever.
Our society’s young men encounter little resistance against continuing to celebrate juvenile pursuits, losing themselves in video games and mindless, “guy-oriented” TV fare – and casual sex.
The casual sex culture prevalent on university campuses – and even in schools – has produced fresh vocabulary to accommodate new ways of relating: “friends with benefits” and “booty call”.
FWB I get, but “booty call”? I had to ask a young friend, who explained: “Oh, that’s when a guy calls you up and just needs you to come over and have sex with him and then go home.”
Why, I asked, would a girl do such a thing? Why would she service a man for nothing – no relationship, no affection, no emotional intimacy?
She pointed out that, well, they are friends. With benefits! But no obligations! Cool. When I persisted in demanding an answer to “why”, she finally shrugged and said: “I have no idea. It’s dumb.”
Guys also have no idea why a girl would do that, but they’re not complaining – even if they’re not enjoying themselves that much, either.
Miriam Grossman, a university psychiatrist, wrote Unprotected, a book about the consequences of casual sex among students. She has treated thousands of young men and women suffering a range of physical and emotional problems related to sex, which she blames on sex education of recent years that treats sex as though it were divorced from emotional attachment and as if men and women were the same. Grossman asserts that there are a lot more victims of the hookup (casual sex) culture than of date rape.
Casual sex, besides being emotionally unrewarding, can become physically boring. Once sex is stripped of meaning, it becomes merely a mechanical exercise. Since the hookup generation is also the porn generation, many have taken their performance cues from porn flicks that are anything but sensual or caring.
Boys today are marinating in pornography and they’ll soon be having casual sex with our daughters. According to a study by the National Foundation for Educational Research issued in 2005, 12% of British males aged 13-18 avail themselves of “adult-only” websites; and American research findings are similar. The actual numbers are likely to be much higher, given the amount of porn spam that finds its way into electronic mailboxes. If the rising generation of young men have trouble viewing the opposite sex as anything but an object for sexual gratification, we can’t pretend not to understand why.
The biggest problem for both sexes – beyond the epidemic of sexually transmitted disease – is that casual sex is essentially an adversarial enterprise that pits men and women against each other. Some young women, now fully as sexually aggressive as men, have taken “liberation” to another level by acting as badly as the worst guy.
Carol Platt Liebau, the author of Prude, another book on the havoc that pervasive sex has on young people, says that when girls begin behaving more coarsely so, too, do boys.
“And now, because so many young girls have been told that it’s ‘empowering’ to pursue boys aggressively, there’s no longer any need for boys to ‘woo’ girls – or even to commit to a date,” she told me. “The girls are available [in every sense of the word] and the boys know it.”
Men, meanwhile, have feelings. Although they’re uncomfortable sorting through them – and generally won’t if no one insists – I’ve listened to enough of them to know that our hypersexualised world has left many feeling limp and vacant.
Our cultural assumption that men only want sex has been as damaging to them as to the women they target. Here is how a recent graduate summed it up to me: “Hooking up is great, but at some point you get tired of everything meaning nothing.”
Ultimately, what our oversexualised, pornified culture reveals is that we think very little of our male family members. Undergirding the culture that feminism has helped to craft is a presumption that men are without honour and integrity. What we offer men is cheap, dirty, sleazy, manipulative sensation. What we expect from them is boorish, simian behaviour that ratifies the antimale sentiment that runs through the culture.
Surely our boys – and our girls – deserve better.
As long as men feel marginalised by the women whose favours and approval they seek; as long as they are alienated from their children and treated as criminals by family courts; as long as they are disrespected by a culture that no longer values masculinity tied to honour; and as long as boys are bereft of strong fathers and our young men and women wage sexual war, then we risk cultural suicide.
In the coming years we will need men who are not confused about their responsibilities. We need boys who have acquired the virtues of honour, courage, valour and loyalty. We need women willing to let men be men – and boys be boys. And we need young men and women who will commit and marry and raise children in stable homes.
Unprogressive though it sounds, the world in which we live requires no less.
Saving the males – engaging their nobility and recognising their unique strengths – will ultimately benefit women and children, too. Fewer will live in poverty; fewer boys will fail in schools and wind up in jail; fewer girls will get pregnant or suffer emotional damage from too early sex with uncaring boys. Fewer young men and women will suffer loneliness and loss because they’ve grown up in a climate of sexual hostility that casts the opposite sex as either villain or victim.
Then again, maybe I’m completely wrong. Maybe males don’t need saving and women are never happier or more liberated than when dancing with a stripper pole. Maybe women should man the barricades and men should warm the milk. Maybe men are not necessary and women can manage just fine without them. Maybe human nature has been nurtured into submission and males and females are completely interchangeable.
But I don’t think so. When women say, “No, honey, you stay in bed. I’ll go see what that noise is” – I’ll reconsider.
===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409
In war the fathers bury their sons, in peace the sons bury their fathers.
It is a tough life.
Both very solid arguments.
Not much does change over time. It is true that the lot of abandoned mothers has improved. I wonder how much upheaval was really caused by factors left out of the equation. It's true men mostly worked and there is this concept called unemployment and a living wage. Just because people are willing to work did not necessarily mean there were jobs available. I imagine that with the major uprooting that settling the West, major World Wars, and major upheaval in the market place (before the rules set after the crash of 1929) caused wreaked all kinds of havoc in the home. Since in the West, the family has been denigrated to only being nuclear in size, there is/was not much further to go to completely break down the family structure.
Remember, politics begins in the household.
Women are having better chances now than before and more women don't find it anymore shameful to be out in the open, telling people what is happening with their lives, before it was thought to be shameful and degrading especially for the woman since she is the one suppose to be keeping the home.
Yes, you are right Gypsy,a lot of what;s happening now have also been happening in the past times, it was not just commonly reported back then. But now, women are more liberal in thinking and chooses to face whatever society labels them, i prefer that. than be out in the dark and wondering all my life what better or worse things could have happened if i did something and faced my fears of being ridiculed. I think it's not like women act that manly or don't care that much anymore, we do. we want the same things like before. we may enjoy booty calls but we desire for more than that, deep inside all of us. we keep careers to be respected because of all these labeling they give us when we just stay home and earn nothing, but we want to be mothers and wives, keeping the homes alive. well, personally, i do.
I believe not much has changed, we are still the women of before, needing intimacy and care. Maybe sometimes we just mask it with masculinity so as we don't hurt that much when this society tries to take us out in the open making us helpless and vulnerable and then judging us... what can we do, we fight back.
"Give your hands to serve, and your hearts to love"
Yes they are higher (how much though we can't honestly say because those things weren't reported back then). And frankly higher pregnancy rates out of wedlock bother me less then women left with 7 kids and no way to feed them.
Have men been feminized? Look at dandies and the lot back in the days. There have always been very effeminate men who like getting pedicures and having casual sex with women, it's just more out in the open now.
Frankly the author can't seem to get her subject straight. At the same times she's wanting men to be the noble cavemen, providing for the family, but she wants them to be fathers too. Sorry, but as is proven by the past, if the man is going to be the sole provider then he doesn't really have time for kids.
In the past, as I said, the chance of a man getting the children in a divorce was 1%, now, while still not as common as it should be, it's happening far more often, as men and women being looked at more and more equally in custody cases.
I really don't think this woman has any clue what she's talking about.
Visit www.qatarhappening.com
I agree that the past was not perfect, however, pregnancy rates out of wedlock are much higher now. - Another topic..
The gist here is that PC has taken over and the male of the species has been "femininized" ..
Women seem to have the upper hand now and cry foul at the slightest issue..
Ok, sorry I couldn't read everyone's responses, but the initial post was AWFUL long.
I know this will come as a shock to everyone BUT I disagree. :P
It seems to me, as is always the case when looking at the past, we have idealized it. Tra la la back in the days of yore when the nuclear family reigned and men were men and women were women everyone was happy and children where raised healthy and everything was utopia.
WRONG! back in the days of yore, girls still got pregnant out of wedlock, abortions still happend EVEN in married relationships (usually with the result of the woman dying of spetisemia)Men still left there wives in the lurch (with the result that women were uneducated and unable to work and support the families that were ditched) and men still never got the children in a divorce case (less of a chance actually) And Men were never ever home and had very little bonding with their children BECAUSE bonding with children was seen as the woman's job.
My father NEVER got to know his father until after his Dad was forced to retire after his second heart attack. His father was at work from 7 in the morning till 8 at night and was usually out of town on business. My grandmother raised my father and his brother.
My mother's father was a drunk and a violent abuser who left my grandmother with 7 children and no skills or money to raise them.
THESE are the facts of the past.
While things are by no means perfect now (which is a result of the rather recent upheavel in society) at least women are capable of raising their families, without a man, and a man is capable of bonding with his family, should he want to (In Canada men can now take 6 months paternal leave) and they now get to witness the birth of their children rather then sitting in a waiting room.
There is less judgement now should a woman choose to go to work (which due to the cost of living now is neccessary in most places) and should a man stay home. Or should he want to get a pedicure.
Really I think the problem is not the current life, but idealizing the past.
Visit www.qatarhappening.com
Now whos first for some MR PAULS' loving ?
[img_assist|nid=103941|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
marriage is a relationship where one is always right and the other one is the husband, hehehe...
good thing im not married.. yet.. =(
Give me a proper 'man' any day! I hate it when I discover that I have bigger balls (metaphorically speaking lol) than significant other...
You still gonna teach me to stitch? ROFL :D
Cheers!
Agreed... I love to be dominated at night!
We're really on to a good thing, dominating the workplace - if you earn the money, you're pretty much in control of everything.
Sadly, I'm a primary school teacher, ever emerged in female-run communities - dominated, night and day. But it's something you can learn to love ;)
Oh, now you want me to be mind reader :P LMFAO
Cheers :)
My dear, I've been pissin' standin' up long enough to know how not to make a mess of it, and if perchance I do, I clean it up ;)
aaaawww KH you blush too..how cute..
hey swift...am still up but should be in bed...nite nite..
how's things with you? still up? got to go to bed now! hoohum!
如果您認為我是母狗! 您應該遇見我的媽媽!
KH and Tcom would be the real men judging from their cooking skill.
Evening KH ....
had me blushing
===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409
I think your one of those real men, especially with your cooking skills...
I got my own pisser thank you very much :P And my aim is pretty good. Now this is high brow stuff here baby ;)
Novita, Alex...
can you answer:
"Where have all the real men gone?"
she travelled with 2 kids. am here with one kid. so. what do you think?
===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409
over here Drac !
women?...where...who...when? :P
Deal!
Not. I'll stick to pissin' standing up ;)
Real men? Gone fishing with a coupla cases of beer!
Real Women: wat iz dat? Are women for real?..
KH, i beleive yours is on holidays...
Except now I don't need a woman? What the hell! Where is co-dependency when you need it :P
Marry me and I'll teach you to knit and crochet!
seems yes since men are waxing and women are shaving.
agree re/ the title. did not read everything though. but on the same token, I wonder whee have all the real women gone?
===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409
Sure is a darn good thing!!! I like the way your mother thinks!
My mother taught me how to cook, clean, do laundry, and many other household chores. And since I've been a bachelor longer than I've been married, It's a darn good thing, maybe?
Its true southland, women should prepare their boys for marriage, domesticate them so its not a shock when they leave the nest. Im definately off to the toy shop tomm to buy baby dolls, strollers and a kitchen set for a beginners course.. Im starting them very young..
She did a great job. I had my place but it had to be learned. The important thing is that it is a team effort.
Women get prepared from early on in life for motherhood, wheras for men, not so much for fatherhood (typically). Men are usually 'thrown to the wolves', Spartan-like. If they had good mothers, they learn to follow their spouses lead in this regard. Men, well, we're men. That's why a woman has to choose wisely. Let's face it, when it comes to settling down, it's typically the woman's choice.
southland, sounds like she did a good job.. I can see how you felt displaced in the early stages, but dont worry about feeling displaced when it came to potty training, you were saved..lol...Ive succeeded with one now 1 more to go...and not looking forward to it..
lol Alexa, again i seem to agree with you, sweaty chests i think we can do without..
Interesting, yes! If true, evolution states men will have kids and women will work. Oh wait, nothing changes :P
Nadt - Actually my ex handled that department. I am proud to say she did a fantastic job. Our daughter was potty trained w/in 6 months (my ex did not work the first year after our daughter was born). For her it was a labor of love. Although, I did fee misplaced. She also breast fed our daughter for over a year. My role was very limited with regards to rearing the child in the infancy stage.'
With regards to chores, that's what the older siblings are for, lols :D
Aisha its interesting, but i dont see how a man vacuuming the carpet can affect the hormones...These roles are set by society.
Exactly southland, people choice, each family should decide whats suits their lifestyle. Im sick of men and women being told what they should or shouldnt do? Do whats right for you..
Aisha quote:
" Are women behaving more like men because when she is in the work place her testerone levels go up?
Are men behaving more lke women because when they are made to help out with the household chores their estrogene goes up?
Are you kidding with the above comment?
your right though its an interesting topic..
No I am nbot kidding. I saw a program quite a while ago stating that these things had an influence on the hormone levels too. Interesting, no?
Aisha-Taweela
lol southland..yes it is labour of love, but sorry the chores that come with it,well lets just say its definatly not love..lol..p.s have you tried potty training a child..eeeew..
I enjoyed reading this article. There is so much truth in it.
The world is changing isn't it. Men are adopting to behave as women and women are behaving as men. Why is this?
Is it a question of finances? Are women behaving more like men because when she is in the work place her testerone levels go up?
Are men behaving more lke women because when they are made to help out with the household chores their estrogene goes up?
Why < The exemplar of the modern male is the hairless, metrosexualised man and decorator boys who turn heter-osexual slobs into perfumed ponies.> What happened here? In my days i was told "a real man would have a hairy chest and smell of seat & horses"
Or why Why, I asked, would a girl would she service a man for nothing – no relationship, no affection, no emotional intimacy? Why would a woman settle for this? I don't know, it is dumb>
Has there been some kind of brain washing sceme going on her to let a woman degrade herself to that extend?
Is this why some of the woman, (and this is going back to the post about dressing), wear such skimpy & slutty clothes? Is it because they do not feel their selfworth?
Or is this what peer pressure is doing to us without us realizing it? The need to change the world? Because in the past it was worse? But is it better now? In my eyes not.
Why is it that Who says they are dumb? Is this what we feel being a mother is all about?
Or is it a question of the "grass is greener on the other side" and we want to experiment with this? Role reversal?
What is it?
Aisha-Taweela
P.S. finally a worth while psot has come up. Thank you. I was getting bored!
Well women are certainly suffering many of the ill effects of life in the workforce. Although there is no question that raising children is a non-stop, thankless job, it is nonetheless a labor of love. Women in the workforce now suffer the effects of strokes, heart attacks, chemical dependencies, etc. nearly on par with men. Now there's equality for you ;)
You are close to the mark here. The only peoples opinion that matter are your own families', that of your children and the father(s) of your children. Everyone else that truly loves you will fall into support you or not (if not it was your choice not to live by their rules, i.e. your own parents, etc.).
I guess ...
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. (Gautama Buddha)
true owen, like they say all the good ones are either married, gay or broke...
all sadly taken.. :/
[img_assist|nid=12867|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.
Thay went to search for Real Women
I find strong men a complete turn on but need also to make my own decisions, best of both worlds for me :)
Brit theres no doubt that these issues exist, but again why blame women, surely that not going to help anyone..
Yeah vegas and we are all fake barbie dolls..
You can't teach experience
We men are not asking for much.. As she says .."Saving the males – engaging their nobility and recognising their unique strengths – will ultimately benefit women and children, too."
lol, sure is Alexa..
Alexa youve raised another good point about how women who stay home to raise kids are viewed. Your damned if you do and your damned if you dont.
Quote "Often women who actually chose to stay at home, are regarded as dumb by feminists and as lazy by some men....this is actually something that happened to me."
Ive just been busy.....
[img_assist|nid=103941|title=.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=|height=0]
NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
Rami, i do agree with you to a degree but in this article, it shows the men as victims?
No Brit, i didnt say that, but i think women should. Infact there debates going on in Australia, about paying women to stay at home and raise the kids. Women give up their jobs to do this and men enjoy parenthood without having to sacrfice pay or career. Women are choosing to not have kids for the mere fact that when they do stay home, they risk being financially dependant on men, and some men, well, are tight,and have issues sharing their money, hence puts women at a disadvantage and at the mercy of her partner..
You know the governemnt are paying women to have "babies", upon each delivery, last it was $4000, why because women dont want to have babies and stay home and be dependant on men to eat etc, they are choosing to work.. The government are worried because with miminal breeding, we are going to have a population of elderly people.. Who's to blame for that?
I do agree that women are crticised for staying home to raise the kids, but thats what im saying, people should be able to choose what they want to do, regardless of gender or what society expects of them.
I gave up my career when i had my first born and i was critised for doing that and had to defend the fact that it was by choice, and i would do it all over again but not becasue of what society expects of me but because i want to, personally theres nothing better being fortunate enough to spend all my time with my kids, but i am fortunate that my hubby repsects the sacrfice i made and sees it as hard work and he see the money he earns as "we earn because he believes that being a mom is hard work and often says than having a 9-5 paid job is somewhat easier, as moms work 24/7..
You say:
"However, i just feel like its always blamed on the woman, why does the woman need to save men? Surely they are responsible for their own lives."
The thing is, a lot of men are happy avoiding the newer, ball crunching, headstrong, tough woman. They don't anything to do with these career women who have a 'whatever it takes/career comes first/I'm not letting anyone hold me back" type women.
Don't get me wrong, women and men should and must be treated equally, in both the home and the workplace. This is crucial to a healthy society.
But just as women scorned tough, heart-of-stone, careless men a generation ago, men are now scoring women who are, ironically, embodying the very same traits that they fought against in the 60s.
Now the men are quite happy with this arrangement. They've discovered that they can cook and clean and live alone, quite happily. It's the women who are now yearning for a man, and yearning for a 'home'. So it's not realistic to say that the men should solve the problem, since the men aren't the ones complaining.
Are you saying that women should be paid for doing "household chores" or for bringing up the children ?
Whilst I agree that the old "norms" of man as breadwinner and woman as homemaker have largely disappeared, would you not agree that the feminist or equality movement have taken a very strong anti-male stance and any woman who may choose to be a home maker has been portrayed as a martyr or forced to do so!
You can't teach experience
Interesting article Brit...However, i just feel like its always blamed on the woman, why does the woman need to save men? Surely they are responsible for their own lives. Women have it tougher than men. If she wants a career and no family, shes selfish, if she wants to stay home and raise the kids, she doesnt have ambition and is holidaying at home while living of her hubbies earnings, if she wants to do both, she being selfish and neglecting her hubby and her kids etc etc. No matter what she decides she cant do right, its always the womans fault...
I do agree that feminism has caused many debates, but personally i believe what has caused all these debates is the reluctance to let everyone regardless of gender do what feels right to them, regardless of what society deems acceptable. If women enjoys booty call so what, its the men who bloody created them in the first place, if a woman wants a career and no family, its her choice, if a man wants to be a stay home dad, why not, there should be more of them..
Stop pressuring men and women into specific gender roles and celebrate our individuality...
Just seems this author has a lot of sympathy for men and not for women..although i do agree with the child custody issues...some women use it to their power...
Lastly with the conclusion when she says:
"
But I don’t think so. When women say, “No, honey, you stay in bed. I’ll go see what that noise is” – I’ll reconsider."
When couples both have paid work and the man shares 50% of the domestic "unpaid work" when he gets home, then Ill reconsider..
Of course not!
But I have to admit, feigning femininity sure confused UBL Inc. Fortunately there are still plenty of 'Real men' in America. Some things are worth fighting for, even if you are in the minority of the mainstream.
MY type of gal...Pity you're still married.....:))
Getting back to the posting ....
Someone once compared the demise of the manly man to that of the American bison almost being destroyed.
A few years ago, there were “manly” men like Seen Canary, Clint Eastwood, Steve McQueen and John Wayne . Now there are female like Orlando Bloom and Johnny Depp with their feminine mannerisms and womanly looks.
Does the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the PC Brigade and women themselves ??
I like my freedom and independence but also like the security of being in a good and stable relationship, if I was forced to choose am sorry but my job would go and my relationship would be the winner
My ex was the same way. "I wanna career". Just before our divorce was finalized, she tells me, "All I wanted was to be a stay at home mom".
It takes a disciplined and focused woman to balance both successfully and a supportive husband.
Alexa - In a small society it is easier to be more socialistic and afford it.
Both well said. The problem with society at large is this kind of forethought rarely enters the equation. Once the bonds of tradition are broken the dam bursts and wallah!
Will the man of the house decide what is to be cooked ?:)
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"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" - George Galloway.
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I just had a discussion with my little sister..Her son is a year old and she wants to go back to work.,.
Reason : She is fed up with being cooped up at home and misses a job, she previously said she hated...
Wimmin - Who can understrand them ?
Not to detract from what the gist of you message is, but another 'fallout' of the woman's lib movement is that motherhood seems to have become something less than noble. Nature dictates that woman will procreate, and if that most important role in human society is followed up with proper nurturing (I believe in Europe and Canada a mother gets up to two years leave to assist the child in early development) it takes the woman out of the workplace at presumably random times during their 'career'. It is hard to state that the pay should be that same and actually sell it to those paying. That is one of the drawbacks of a capitalist society (money rules all).
This was ask before already i just never had a chance to know the answer.
If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, where does Mother inlaw from?!
Please answer :D
has referred to, it has been over a generation of this pattern and coming on the end of the second. These individuals are now taking leadership positions in our societies. So the damage is deep and has not 'bottomed out' yet.
There has been good and bad that have come from the 'Woman's Lib' movement no doubt. I guess the question is, 'On the whole, is society better off for it?'.
Can you not relate to this ?
why all these lengthy writeup and copy paste.
have something which relates to every one here in this forum
For the last 30 years women have been telling men 'we don't need you, we can do everything ourselves'. Which is untrue - you women should try writing urinating your name onto the side of a wall, or into the snow....
But I digress...
A whole generation of women were busy telling men that they can be fulfilled professionally and socially without needing a man in their lives. So we said 'fine, we're paid more anyway, and don't have to pay to raise children, so that suits us fine'.
Now the women have realised that things weren't so simple, and the men don't want anything to do with them.
On the whole, while the modern man has retreated into his cave, too affraid to come out and be a man (lest he be accused of arrogance, or pride, or macho-ism, or whatever) at the same time the modern woman has become a strong, independent, head strong individual. Which is good for her in the workplace, and while arguing at the visa counter at Doha airport, but she is exactly the sort of woman that most men will avoid.