What kind of parent in the rite mind kills their daughter by pouring acid over her , just for smiling at a man.....OMFG is this the way of certain ppl and they use religion as an excuse....or dishonor.....get with the program you barbaric idiots.
YOU Stated - ""And what about the cases when 2 people simply have sexual love?
Stoning them to death? is that acceptable to you?""
your above statement completly reflects how mature and logical you are in understading an issue and making a statement about it.. and please dont talk about intelligence again "" I AGREE, ALLAH HAS MADE YOU THE MOST INTELLIGENT PERSON ON THE EARTH""
i hope most of the people here on QL who are humble parents, or faithfull couples or caring siblings will agree to your being INTELLIGTENT AND SENSIBLE PERSON after reading the above statement that you made..
Hah! the same over and over and over IDIOTIC MORONIC reply of :
"OooOh it is them! it is not us! they use it their own way! As a Muslim I tell you it is not us!"
Well yeah? Bugger off !
Do you see rapists go :
"As a rapist ,I did NOT rape her!"
Go die already for fuck sake!
YOU ARE THE ONE who interpret religion as YOU WANT.
I only read out loud what is CLEARLY stated, I do not IMAGINE IT
So please , next time you choose to reply, answer with something that at least has the smirk of intelligence.
I do not care if you are offended.
I do not care what YOU THINK.
I only care of the truth and what is ACTUALLY happening not what you THINK is happening.
It just seems you never seen somebody's face acid-ed or someone's head cut off, so till you imagine the gore and horrifying moment , do not reply with your imbecile blind replies.
Early Muslims would not have know about acid, that is why they recommend stoning and cutting off bits of people's bodies for things most would not even consider a crime these days. The whole honour killing thing is one of the most sick and disgusting aspect of human nature in certain parts of the world.
Your words ""P.S: I was raised as a good Muslim, I started praying at 6 and started fastening all the month of Ramadan since 6 too, I was always the one who children turned to when they needed help in Islamic understanding when I was as a child...""
what makes you think that you were a good muslim..? n what makes you believe that you were raised as a good muslim..? just because you were praying and fasting..? or just because you were being reffered by kids for their doubts..?
man.. i havn seen such a dumb, ignorant and illogical statement ever made by a person who claims himself to be a "I KNOW EVERYTHING AND WHAT I SAY IS ONLY LOGICAL""
you have no idea abt anything that you talk about.. you say you know about religions.. man.. u know nothing.. you say, u know about science.. believe me, to understand you are wrong..
i will tell you one simple example.. "Being a best driver"
tell me you opinion about this..
THERE ARE 3 PPL.. ONE HAS READ AND UNDERSTOOD EACH AND EVERYTHING ABOUT DRIVING A CAR AND HOW TO REPAIR IT, HOW TO MANTAIN IT, HAD LEARNT DRIVING ALSO BUT WAS AFRAID OF DRIVING FOR THE FEAR OF MEETING WITH AN ACCIDENT.. AND HE CLAIMS HIMSELF TO BE THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE CARS..
SECOND PERSON, BORN TO A COUPLE, WHO BOTH ARE DRIVERS AND THEY OWNED A GARAGE OF THEMSELVES, SO BASICALLY, THIS PERSON WAS BROUGHT UP WITH ALL THE PRACTICAL KNOWLEGDE OF DRIVING, HANDLING AND MANTAINING THE CAR. BUT HE NEVER HAD ANY PROPER FORMAL EDUCATION ABOUT THE CARS.
THERE WAS THIS THIRD PERSON.. WHO WAS BORN TO HUMBLE COUPLE.. DID HIS ENGINEERING IN AUTOMOBILES.. GOT A GOOD JOB, HAD A FAMILY, OWNED AND DROVE A CAR AND WAS HUMBLE ENOUGH ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT HE KNEW AND SHARED GOOD OPINIONS AMONG THE PPL ALSO...
so.. lets see which one you think is the better among 3..?
funny enough there is a same story 100% identical of Jesus' story.
And Indian God born 2000 years before Jesus, baptized next to a river ,born of a virgin ,tortured and killed,revived after three days and could heal the sick.
I have a friend going to Fanar and she came back one day and told me she was taught that the Bible came after the Koran....and she 100 percent believed it. Thanks but no thanks.
I've tried that on my own, and personally I don't think it's quite the same. My husband has never asked me once to convert, and poor guy has had to put up with a lot of annoying questions from me, which I think he's not able to explain or maybe translate correctly.
I grew up in a Catholic community, went to a catholic school and hung out with catholics, until I met my husband.
That I think was the beginning of the end. I knew nothing about Islam or any other religion for that matter, and that's why I think I am where I am today. Lost in Qatar, lost with my questions, just lost....
I think we all agree on one thing here: that what those so called parents did was indeed an evil deed and they should be punished severely for it, regardless of who or what they claim they did it for.
We also agree that there are certainly misguided people who do terrible crimes and try to justify them by using religion.
Beyond that, we obviously defer in terms of our faiths and beliefs, but that shouldn't stop us from being polite and respectful towards one another,right? Cheers!
@lost-in-qatar I really do feel you, I feel for you.
But it is a big mistake to ask for a religious guy to talk to you about his religion, because he will always try to explain it the way you want to hear it.
oh whiny thing i can't explain, oh i shall now leave you alone..we don't get each other so lets call it quits and to each his own..me in my cave and you upon the celestial heights of intelligence and science fuelled understanding of the world around you..good night
Me, I wish I was sitting with you all discussing this face to face. My husband is a Muslim and I was raised Catholic. I feel awful writing this but I've started questioning all religions since our marriage 12 years back. I'm so confused and have so many questions, but the answers I receive are non founded or unrealistic to me. I wish I was able to speak and read Arabic so I could read verses in the Koran, and try to understand for myself what others try to explain to me. I get different answers for the same verse?..
All I know for sure is that killing is wrong, no matter what
I'm to tired to express myself but I think you get the gist of it.
i accept that innocent people are dying everyday..the world over..not just in pakistan or israel..
i do not accept its because of Islam or religion in general..
a rich guy with no skill, buys a lamborghini, drives it beyond his abilities and the car's limits, crashes into playing kids and kills them; his fault or the lamborghini's? should all supercars be banned from sale?..
he got the lambo because he's rich and loved the car, regardless of his skill or understanding of the car's limits..the acid throwing monster dad is misguided because he was born to misguided people..regardless of him being muslim or atheist or having any grasp of his religion at all..
my example may be not entirely relevant but the logic applies. anyways man, since i'm sure this reply of mine too is nonsense for you, i will take heed of your suggestion and bugger off..
best of luck fatimah if you're hanging around yet; you'll need it
But as Muslims we believe that the Quran was the speech of Allah,revealed over a time period and that the whole compilation was done by the followers of the Prophet Muhammad. So in actuality it wasn't meant to be "poetic" at all.
That said, yes the Quran can be misinterpreted and taken out of context, which is why it's important to know when and why certain verses were revealed, and that how even certain orders mentioned were specific only for that time.
Most people today though are lazy. Lazy to seek out beneficial knowledge , and prefer instead to follow the brainwashed ignorant ideologies of their people, without bothering to find out the truth behind it all.
I think you and I have been raised in completely opposite ways then. See my family was a namesake Muslim family to say the least.many of my close relatives are Non Muslims and my dad himself was far from a practicing Muslim and even made derogatory statements about Islam, and Muslims, and made sure our upbringing was far away from "Islamic" Thank God I never let myself then be influenced by him!
In fact when I actually started seeking knowledge about Islam did I come to know the many different sects and misinterpretations of the faith. Truly what we had been taught was falsehood to say the least. The true Islamic deen, as revealed by Allah to our Prophet, is no where near to being the harsh and extreme religion that many of the so called Imaams and sheikhs make it out to be.
Well let me tell you why you don't see that in most educated Muslim communities.
Because as you said it they are "educated".
And educated aka civilized man will find the beheading of someone cruel , but lets just take somebody who was PERFECTLY raised on Muslim ethics but no academical educations, I will assure you,he will be more extreme than anyone.
I know many Masjid Imams who follow Islam by the word, it is still the same.
If they find some one who had sexual love, they would stone him to death, if they found somebody stealing they will cut his hand.
and they will do it with a big smile, and no matter what you believe they will be close minded and not care about external beliefs.
Last week I was debating with a Masjid Imam here in Qatar
I was pointing out that Islam is a Deen not Dyianah (a way of life not religion).
But he was like ; " I know what you mean, but ANYTHING that is outside the Quran or Hadiths are completely forbidden".
I don't know about most of you people but a huge number of people are now are considered "devoted" and "good" believers and sheikhs.
Islam might look normal to the Muslims, but tell all that to a Non-Muslim you will freak him out.
So cheers, I am not here trolling or anything.
P.S: I was raised as a good Muslim, I started praying at 6 and started fastening all the month of Ramadan since 6 too, I was always the one who children turned to when they needed help in Islamic understanding when I was as a child.
But I wasn't raised extreme,that's why it seemed to me the beheading or stoning of somebody , something unbearable.
They used to, when they were poorer and uneducated. And plenty of Christians still call for extreme punishments for what they see as moral crimes. You don't see this happening amongst the more prosperous and educated Muslim communities either.
I think you've met a lot of terrible Muslims in your life. And I can't blame you, cos our Prophet himself said that ignorance will increase among Muslims, as will crimes and tribulations as a result of them.
Rest assured though, there are actually Muslims who are not as you say. I for one can confirm that not only do I condemn the evil acts done in the name of religion, but I certainly think animals have a brain, and can be truly intelligent beings not to mention better than many humans too!
@Bachus , it is about the extremism of the Muslims, you do not see people being hanged in Christian countries for fulfilling their love desires with their mates? do you?
You don't see Christians go like "Oh,my neighbor is working on Sunday, I should kill him!" do you?
Honor killings, or the like, are historically prevalent in a host of communities worldwide, irrespective of religion. Quotations from religious texts (usually taken out of context) or traditions are simply used to bolster the parents' or communities' justification for violence. So it is with many calls to violence, whether aimed at a nation, sect, or individual.
Such things are most prevalent amongst the economically and educationally poor, and Islam happens to be dominant religion in many of the poorest regions of the earth. If they were another religion, the killings would not stop; only the holy text cited would be different.
It doesn't matter, you know how hard is to accurately translate Arabic to English, I was taught this many years ago ,with a reference to the hadith and blablabla , you might find your luck asking somebody.
And what about the cases when 2 people simply have sexual love?
Stoning them to death? is that acceptable to you?
Believe me,you won't see how dreadful and evil religions are until you open your brain, and stop being self centered.
It also amazes me that most Muslims treat animals as slaves that were created for humans, it also amazes how also big number of Muslims truly believe animals got no brains.
No religion has the right to kill others because of some perceived insult. If you truly believe in your religion, no criticism should alter your faith and beliefs. Nor should that criticism cause you to perform the ultimate sin of taking the life of another human being.
Please can you give me the reference to this hadith. I know a authentic hadith does exist with similar texts but says "pride" and not "honor" meaning anyone with even an atom of pride, and who lacks humbleness will not enter paradise.
That said I do agree with you that ignorance and committing evil acts do occur among Muslims, and that results in innocent people being killed. But again the God I worship, the Prophets I have faith in, the Quran and hadiths I follow do not support these acts.
Islam does support capital punishments yes. But they are for cases like murder, rape, sexual abuse of children, and the likes. Certainly NOT for the case mentioned in the OP.
Shoot you down? F*CK YOU! how about I just behead you?
And there is a hadith that says "Wala yadkholana al janat ayato thayad" it means ,how to say this, anyone who lacks of honor will NOT enter Heaven,in a sense it justifies these barbarians' acts, I was taught this over and over when I was kid in schools,and till now it is widely taught.
And if you forgot already ,Most Muslim take the hadiths more seriously than the Quran.
So do not try to mess about ,and bugger off until you got a real comeback that justifies the beheading or throwing acid.
And yeah, I won't talk about other religions because I don't have a personal experience with any other than Islam.
You got two choices, accept the truth that innocent people are dying by the day, or just bugger off and come back with something that makes sense.
Again =( Again another murderously evil, vile and dishonorable act done in the name of religion and preserving honor! Hope the criminal sick excuses for parents get a justly harsh penalty so they taste the torment the poor girl experienced!
As for why one finds such crimes so prevalent in Muslim dominated countries, then I think we all know by now the reason. These people not only lack knowledge of the religion but have instead created their own interpretation of the faith to suit their needs. There is not a single verse either from the Quran or authentic hadiths supporting the barbaric acts of these people, and mind you many of them even admit this. Yet they do them anyways, because they believe it to be right, and because their ancestors did them!
That said it's not only seen among Muslims only. It is cultural to some tribes and kinds. Even some of the non Muslim Kurdish people perform such practices. And back in SL these acts of "revenge killings" to restore so called lost honor happen among some people in rural areas too.
IMO it's time international bodies got involved in order to stamp out such evils. There is nothing honorable in "honor" killings, and the perpetrators of such crimes deserves the worst penalty permitted regardless of their faith!And yes I support capital punishment too being applied for people who do such demonic deeds!
im probably wasting my time here since the OP has thus far shown no inclination to consider any alternative viewpoint:
1) Your comments show a distinct distaste for Islam. Please review your comments before you deny it because you risk undermining your credibility.Is your post about Islam or the killing? If its just about hate for Islam and other religions, then your illness is beyond remedy.
2) I will ask YOU to get your facts straight before you accuse the religion of condoning these acts or promoting the culture that enables them. It unequivocally abhors them. Beheading is for rape, murder, drugs and the like. I raped your sister. But I did it because I underwent sexual abuse myself as a kid and am disturbed. Do you want me dead? Or you want me rehabilitated at state expense in an institution?
3) Brit has tried to be most reasonable with his comments and respectful too. He is a popular and friendly QL member and I will request you to be respectful in return.
4) No amount of reasoning will help I realize because your reply will probably aim to just shoot me down.
5) Rid yourself of the all consuming hatred within you, accept that there's a world other than your own and learn to see with an objective lens.
If you ask me,I'd say lets de-brainwash them and let them realize the monster they turned into, that might waken them up and they might spread the message.
@britexpat "nigh impossible" but they are still beheading aren't they? they still are throwing acid ,aren't they? I just don't see the point why you still are arguing?
@Bachus you are totally right, Religions IS culture, but well Religious AKA Extreme cultural people got their own views.
Sorry, but again, I must disagre with you. The topic of adultery has been discussed here many mny times and from what I understand, the stoning is nigh on impossible since the burden of proof required is not easy to get.
Actually it still is, as I told you there are many branches of Islam, and in Islam a women if to says, does adultery (As they claim,a sin) by the laws of Islam she must be stoned to death.
There are views in the branches of Islam which can be dramatically different from a branch to another, like between Shariaa and Sunna there are WAY many more.
The only point I was trying to make is that it is cultural and has to do with ignorance and lack of education. Many are following "practices" which have no origins in any religion.
Brit, I think you and I both know what Blosted is talking about. No religion states that acid must be thrown on a person. Never the less, the religion in this case states certain rules must be followed when it comes to the conduct between a man and a woman. If somebody decides these rules have been flouted, action is taken. Not necessarily action according to said religion. This kind of action, killing the girl with acid is, to my knowledge, cultural.
BUT....that the incident happened at all has its roots in the interpretation of said religion.
Pakistan is an Islamic country , I just guess they run out of stones to throw and went on acids ,or they just wanted a more creative way to torture people.
But it is still the same...torture and murder.
Don't forget ,there are many Islamic "mathaheebs" which are "ways" sort of, like Sunni and Shia'a and way many others.
I believe you when you say that you have been religious and so are probably very knowledgeable on the subject.
I have worked and lived in Saudi. Yes, i've seen a beheading, but I am just curious which if any religion states that acid must be thrown for looking at a boy or bringing dishonour.
And if you do not think so, then I'd like you to know with all do confidence you surely like in knowledge about religions...
Just do not debate me further , you are getting on my nerves with your lament coldness like if humans were insects you can just crash whenever you get bored from.
So I'd recommend you for the millionth time to get your fact straight ,I told you I am an Ex-religious so do not try to leap around me.
And if Jordan was under Sharia laws she would have died anyways doesn't matter if it was her relatives who killed her or by the "laws" ...
So stop being a god damn ignorant.
And lets see what you going to do when somebody shoots the brains out of your relatives just because he thinks in a fancy doo daa!
You are no better than them ,as heartless and soulless as they are.
"Just ask for anybody to arrest him" she says, why don't we do that over a cup of coffee and discuss if he should be left alone or given a gift according to Sharia laws....
There is no excuse for their actions. It is a heinous crime and they must be punished. May she rest in peace.
Having said that , it is nothing to do with religion, but more to do with culture, ignorance and lack of education. So, please keep religion out of it.
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Of course stoning people to death just for having sex is not acceptable in any civilised society. To say otherwise shows that you condone murder.
YOU Stated - ""And what about the cases when 2 people simply have sexual love?
Stoning them to death? is that acceptable to you?""
your above statement completly reflects how mature and logical you are in understading an issue and making a statement about it.. and please dont talk about intelligence again "" I AGREE, ALLAH HAS MADE YOU THE MOST INTELLIGENT PERSON ON THE EARTH""
i hope most of the people here on QL who are humble parents, or faithfull couples or caring siblings will agree to your being INTELLIGTENT AND SENSIBLE PERSON after reading the above statement that you made..
May Allah have mercy upon you as well.. Ameen.
Hah! the same over and over and over IDIOTIC MORONIC reply of :
"OooOh it is them! it is not us! they use it their own way! As a Muslim I tell you it is not us!"
Well yeah? Bugger off !
Do you see rapists go :
"As a rapist ,I did NOT rape her!"
Go die already for fuck sake!
YOU ARE THE ONE who interpret religion as YOU WANT.
I only read out loud what is CLEARLY stated, I do not IMAGINE IT
So please , next time you choose to reply, answer with something that at least has the smirk of intelligence.
I do not care if you are offended.
I do not care what YOU THINK.
I only care of the truth and what is ACTUALLY happening not what you THINK is happening.
It just seems you never seen somebody's face acid-ed or someone's head cut off, so till you imagine the gore and horrifying moment , do not reply with your imbecile blind replies.
Early Muslims would not have know about acid, that is why they recommend stoning and cutting off bits of people's bodies for things most would not even consider a crime these days. The whole honour killing thing is one of the most sick and disgusting aspect of human nature in certain parts of the world.
Jazakhallah khair bro...truly we are all in need of this dua.
@ Ingesu: well said.Always good to have open minded people who refuse to generalize..keep it up!
If he means Islam then my message for him please read first
www.islamhouse.com (more than 40 languages available)
www.islamway.com
oh fortunately many of people here in ql are open minded
:(
I does not surprise me, specially how some people interpret religion for their own personal goals.
I refuse to believe that the Islam agrees with pouring acid into your child´s or woman´s face.
It is sad and horrifying but I guess, as long as there are people manipulating the law, there is little that can be done.
Ah, and yes, be careful with your posts ;)
May Allah bless you with the right thoughts, proper knowledge and lead you to a better direction and be mercifull upon you.. Ameen..
Do Not Mislead People on Public Platforms without having proper Knowledge about anything.
"I do not intend to preach or suggest or guide or force my opinions on anyone" -- "Peace"
May Allah bless you with the right thoughts, proper knowledge and lead you to a better direction and be mercifull upon you.. Ameen..
Do Not Mislead People on Public Platforms without having proper Knowledge about anything.
"I do not intend to preach or suggest or guide or force my opinions on anyone" -- "Peace"
"prove how the millions of sperm go waste and just one will give birth to the human life?" Excellent question! Something worth pondering over really..
Your words ""P.S: I was raised as a good Muslim, I started praying at 6 and started fastening all the month of Ramadan since 6 too, I was always the one who children turned to when they needed help in Islamic understanding when I was as a child...""
what makes you think that you were a good muslim..? n what makes you believe that you were raised as a good muslim..? just because you were praying and fasting..? or just because you were being reffered by kids for their doubts..?
man.. i havn seen such a dumb, ignorant and illogical statement ever made by a person who claims himself to be a "I KNOW EVERYTHING AND WHAT I SAY IS ONLY LOGICAL""
you have no idea abt anything that you talk about.. you say you know about religions.. man.. u know nothing.. you say, u know about science.. believe me, to understand you are wrong..
i will tell you one simple example.. "Being a best driver"
tell me you opinion about this..
THERE ARE 3 PPL.. ONE HAS READ AND UNDERSTOOD EACH AND EVERYTHING ABOUT DRIVING A CAR AND HOW TO REPAIR IT, HOW TO MANTAIN IT, HAD LEARNT DRIVING ALSO BUT WAS AFRAID OF DRIVING FOR THE FEAR OF MEETING WITH AN ACCIDENT.. AND HE CLAIMS HIMSELF TO BE THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE CARS..
SECOND PERSON, BORN TO A COUPLE, WHO BOTH ARE DRIVERS AND THEY OWNED A GARAGE OF THEMSELVES, SO BASICALLY, THIS PERSON WAS BROUGHT UP WITH ALL THE PRACTICAL KNOWLEGDE OF DRIVING, HANDLING AND MANTAINING THE CAR. BUT HE NEVER HAD ANY PROPER FORMAL EDUCATION ABOUT THE CARS.
THERE WAS THIS THIRD PERSON.. WHO WAS BORN TO HUMBLE COUPLE.. DID HIS ENGINEERING IN AUTOMOBILES.. GOT A GOOD JOB, HAD A FAMILY, OWNED AND DROVE A CAR AND WAS HUMBLE ENOUGH ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT HE KNEW AND SHARED GOOD OPINIONS AMONG THE PPL ALSO...
so.. lets see which one you think is the better among 3..?
well.. so if you say that u thoroughly understand and bliv the theory of evolution..? n u bliv thatz the way the entire world is functioning today..?
than as per your logical reasoning.. prove how the millions of sperm go waste and just one will give birth to the human life?
Tahsinmim a woman does not have to convert to marry a Muslim man. It's her choice to do so..
Now, I must disagree with you.
As far as I am aware, a Muslim man may marry a Jewish or christian woman. She does NOT have to convert if she does not wish to.
Lol LIQ....she was told this......really wow. Here i was taught the koran is the last holy book for the last religion.....
Ohhhh mommy you confused me...
funny enough there is a same story 100% identical of Jesus' story.
And Indian God born 2000 years before Jesus, baptized next to a river ,born of a virgin ,tortured and killed,revived after three days and could heal the sick.
This god is still worshiped I guess .
His name was Krishna if I remember well.
So there you go....
I have a friend going to Fanar and she came back one day and told me she was taught that the Bible came after the Koran....and she 100 percent believed it. Thanks but no thanks.
I wish I could help.
Perhaps if you send a PM to FathimaH , she may be able to arrange something..
Good Luck!
Yep, agree LIQ & Fathima,
No matter what religion, this is bull sh*t to kill then say its allowed cuz of law of a tribe. Thou shall not kill!!!
Sick, sick people. I could never hurt my children. This is un imaginable how this "people" live this way. sick barbaric beliefs.
I get so sick reading stories like this. Just can't understand.
Salam.
I've tried that on my own, and personally I don't think it's quite the same. My husband has never asked me once to convert, and poor guy has had to put up with a lot of annoying questions from me, which I think he's not able to explain or maybe translate correctly.
I grew up in a Catholic community, went to a catholic school and hung out with catholics, until I met my husband.
That I think was the beginning of the end. I knew nothing about Islam or any other religion for that matter, and that's why I think I am where I am today. Lost in Qatar, lost with my questions, just lost....
The good thing is that there is so much literature available nowadays that you can read for yourself - both hardcopy and online.(for all religions)
On the other hand, I am sure that Fanar has courses for beginners...
I think we all agree on one thing here: that what those so called parents did was indeed an evil deed and they should be punished severely for it, regardless of who or what they claim they did it for.
We also agree that there are certainly misguided people who do terrible crimes and try to justify them by using religion.
Beyond that, we obviously defer in terms of our faiths and beliefs, but that shouldn't stop us from being polite and respectful towards one another,right? Cheers!
@lost-in-qatar I really do feel you, I feel for you.
But it is a big mistake to ask for a religious guy to talk to you about his religion, because he will always try to explain it the way you want to hear it.
Never believe any bullocks, use logic!
Sending you msg.
oh whiny thing i can't explain, oh i shall now leave you alone..we don't get each other so lets call it quits and to each his own..me in my cave and you upon the celestial heights of intelligence and science fuelled understanding of the world around you..good night
Me, I wish I was sitting with you all discussing this face to face. My husband is a Muslim and I was raised Catholic. I feel awful writing this but I've started questioning all religions since our marriage 12 years back. I'm so confused and have so many questions, but the answers I receive are non founded or unrealistic to me. I wish I was able to speak and read Arabic so I could read verses in the Koran, and try to understand for myself what others try to explain to me. I get different answers for the same verse?..
All I know for sure is that killing is wrong, no matter what
I'm to tired to express myself but I think you get the gist of it.
Never mind? Do you think this is a bloody joke?
Do you think that the suffering of innocent people by the millionth a joke?
Of course you would! you are sitting comfortably without anyone acid-ing your face! or forcing you to marry at 12!
I do not care about how you see things.
There are million of people suffering.
So get a grip, get logic, get intellect, learn science.
And then you might be up for a reasonable debate.
Stop being like the cavemen when they discovered fire : " Oh shiny thing we can't explain, oh we shall worship you"
Scientists try to make theories as brief and un-technical as they can.
So most people do not really understand evolution or the big bang.
Believe me evolution seems more reasonable than this world (including the quantum world) was created in 7 days...
never mind man never mind
@mohdata , you really got the wrong grasp of logic, an accident is way different from an act of will, so therefore our metaphor is not valid.
I might sound as an asshole but that's life you can't put your own rules.
@FatimaH Even if the Koran was descended from whoever in the sky, does that prevent us from defining its type of writing ?
Well listen, YOUR OPINIONS have NO place in logic unless you got proof to support it.
So lets say the Koran is just another normal book ,what's the type of literature written in? Poetry Period
Do you see what I am getting to? Life does not revolve around you and your beliefs.
Life is a universe where everything is related,unless when some people come with lament saying and dived the whole world and let it eat itself alive.
i accept that innocent people are dying everyday..the world over..not just in pakistan or israel..
i do not accept its because of Islam or religion in general..
a rich guy with no skill, buys a lamborghini, drives it beyond his abilities and the car's limits, crashes into playing kids and kills them; his fault or the lamborghini's? should all supercars be banned from sale?..
he got the lambo because he's rich and loved the car, regardless of his skill or understanding of the car's limits..the acid throwing monster dad is misguided because he was born to misguided people..regardless of him being muslim or atheist or having any grasp of his religion at all..
my example may be not entirely relevant but the logic applies. anyways man, since i'm sure this reply of mine too is nonsense for you, i will take heed of your suggestion and bugger off..
best of luck fatimah if you're hanging around yet; you'll need it
But as Muslims we believe that the Quran was the speech of Allah,revealed over a time period and that the whole compilation was done by the followers of the Prophet Muhammad. So in actuality it wasn't meant to be "poetic" at all.
That said, yes the Quran can be misinterpreted and taken out of context, which is why it's important to know when and why certain verses were revealed, and that how even certain orders mentioned were specific only for that time.
Most people today though are lazy. Lazy to seek out beneficial knowledge , and prefer instead to follow the brainwashed ignorant ideologies of their people, without bothering to find out the truth behind it all.
Well to be honest, the more you seek "intellectual logic" the more it is clear.
You spent hell lot of time trying to decipher why we are alive ,but you did not try to decipher why you want to know that?
You cannot disprove specific Islamic (especially Islam)
"Mathaheebs" (ways or disciplines) .
Why? Simply because The Koran was written in poetic style contrast to the bible which was written in more like story-telling style.
And in the languages you cannot disprove poetry, because poetry has no specific meaning.
Seek knowledge.
I think you and I have been raised in completely opposite ways then. See my family was a namesake Muslim family to say the least.many of my close relatives are Non Muslims and my dad himself was far from a practicing Muslim and even made derogatory statements about Islam, and Muslims, and made sure our upbringing was far away from "Islamic" Thank God I never let myself then be influenced by him!
In fact when I actually started seeking knowledge about Islam did I come to know the many different sects and misinterpretations of the faith. Truly what we had been taught was falsehood to say the least. The true Islamic deen, as revealed by Allah to our Prophet, is no where near to being the harsh and extreme religion that many of the so called Imaams and sheikhs make it out to be.
Well let me tell you why you don't see that in most educated Muslim communities.
Because as you said it they are "educated".
And educated aka civilized man will find the beheading of someone cruel , but lets just take somebody who was PERFECTLY raised on Muslim ethics but no academical educations, I will assure you,he will be more extreme than anyone.
I know many Masjid Imams who follow Islam by the word, it is still the same.
If they find some one who had sexual love, they would stone him to death, if they found somebody stealing they will cut his hand.
and they will do it with a big smile, and no matter what you believe they will be close minded and not care about external beliefs.
Last week I was debating with a Masjid Imam here in Qatar
I was pointing out that Islam is a Deen not Dyianah (a way of life not religion).
But he was like ; " I know what you mean, but ANYTHING that is outside the Quran or Hadiths are completely forbidden".
I don't know about most of you people but a huge number of people are now are considered "devoted" and "good" believers and sheikhs.
Islam might look normal to the Muslims, but tell all that to a Non-Muslim you will freak him out.
So cheers, I am not here trolling or anything.
P.S: I was raised as a good Muslim, I started praying at 6 and started fastening all the month of Ramadan since 6 too, I was always the one who children turned to when they needed help in Islamic understanding when I was as a child.
But I wasn't raised extreme,that's why it seemed to me the beheading or stoning of somebody , something unbearable.
They used to, when they were poorer and uneducated. And plenty of Christians still call for extreme punishments for what they see as moral crimes. You don't see this happening amongst the more prosperous and educated Muslim communities either.
I think you've met a lot of terrible Muslims in your life. And I can't blame you, cos our Prophet himself said that ignorance will increase among Muslims, as will crimes and tribulations as a result of them.
Rest assured though, there are actually Muslims who are not as you say. I for one can confirm that not only do I condemn the evil acts done in the name of religion, but I certainly think animals have a brain, and can be truly intelligent beings not to mention better than many humans too!
@Bachus , it is about the extremism of the Muslims, you do not see people being hanged in Christian countries for fulfilling their love desires with their mates? do you?
You don't see Christians go like "Oh,my neighbor is working on Sunday, I should kill him!" do you?
Honor killings, or the like, are historically prevalent in a host of communities worldwide, irrespective of religion. Quotations from religious texts (usually taken out of context) or traditions are simply used to bolster the parents' or communities' justification for violence. So it is with many calls to violence, whether aimed at a nation, sect, or individual.
Such things are most prevalent amongst the economically and educationally poor, and Islam happens to be dominant religion in many of the poorest regions of the earth. If they were another religion, the killings would not stop; only the holy text cited would be different.
It doesn't matter, you know how hard is to accurately translate Arabic to English, I was taught this many years ago ,with a reference to the hadith and blablabla , you might find your luck asking somebody.
And what about the cases when 2 people simply have sexual love?
Stoning them to death? is that acceptable to you?
Believe me,you won't see how dreadful and evil religions are until you open your brain, and stop being self centered.
It also amazes me that most Muslims treat animals as slaves that were created for humans, it also amazes how also big number of Muslims truly believe animals got no brains.
No religion has the right to kill others because of some perceived insult. If you truly believe in your religion, no criticism should alter your faith and beliefs. Nor should that criticism cause you to perform the ultimate sin of taking the life of another human being.
Please can you give me the reference to this hadith. I know a authentic hadith does exist with similar texts but says "pride" and not "honor" meaning anyone with even an atom of pride, and who lacks humbleness will not enter paradise.
That said I do agree with you that ignorance and committing evil acts do occur among Muslims, and that results in innocent people being killed. But again the God I worship, the Prophets I have faith in, the Quran and hadiths I follow do not support these acts.
Islam does support capital punishments yes. But they are for cases like murder, rape, sexual abuse of children, and the likes. Certainly NOT for the case mentioned in the OP.
Shoot you down? F*CK YOU! how about I just behead you?
And there is a hadith that says "Wala yadkholana al janat ayato thayad" it means ,how to say this, anyone who lacks of honor will NOT enter Heaven,in a sense it justifies these barbarians' acts, I was taught this over and over when I was kid in schools,and till now it is widely taught.
And if you forgot already ,Most Muslim take the hadiths more seriously than the Quran.
So do not try to mess about ,and bugger off until you got a real comeback that justifies the beheading or throwing acid.
And yeah, I won't talk about other religions because I don't have a personal experience with any other than Islam.
You got two choices, accept the truth that innocent people are dying by the day, or just bugger off and come back with something that makes sense.
Again =( Again another murderously evil, vile and dishonorable act done in the name of religion and preserving honor! Hope the criminal sick excuses for parents get a justly harsh penalty so they taste the torment the poor girl experienced!
As for why one finds such crimes so prevalent in Muslim dominated countries, then I think we all know by now the reason. These people not only lack knowledge of the religion but have instead created their own interpretation of the faith to suit their needs. There is not a single verse either from the Quran or authentic hadiths supporting the barbaric acts of these people, and mind you many of them even admit this. Yet they do them anyways, because they believe it to be right, and because their ancestors did them!
That said it's not only seen among Muslims only. It is cultural to some tribes and kinds. Even some of the non Muslim Kurdish people perform such practices. And back in SL these acts of "revenge killings" to restore so called lost honor happen among some people in rural areas too.
IMO it's time international bodies got involved in order to stamp out such evils. There is nothing honorable in "honor" killings, and the perpetrators of such crimes deserves the worst penalty permitted regardless of their faith!And yes I support capital punishment too being applied for people who do such demonic deeds!
im probably wasting my time here since the OP has thus far shown no inclination to consider any alternative viewpoint:
1) Your comments show a distinct distaste for Islam. Please review your comments before you deny it because you risk undermining your credibility.Is your post about Islam or the killing? If its just about hate for Islam and other religions, then your illness is beyond remedy.
2) I will ask YOU to get your facts straight before you accuse the religion of condoning these acts or promoting the culture that enables them. It unequivocally abhors them. Beheading is for rape, murder, drugs and the like. I raped your sister. But I did it because I underwent sexual abuse myself as a kid and am disturbed. Do you want me dead? Or you want me rehabilitated at state expense in an institution?
3) Brit has tried to be most reasonable with his comments and respectful too. He is a popular and friendly QL member and I will request you to be respectful in return.
4) No amount of reasoning will help I realize because your reply will probably aim to just shoot me down.
5) Rid yourself of the all consuming hatred within you, accept that there's a world other than your own and learn to see with an objective lens.
If you ask me,I'd say lets de-brainwash them and let them realize the monster they turned into, that might waken them up and they might spread the message.
Well it can go both ways.
Let's agree to disagree.
I am a supporter of capital punishment for certain crimes. I would even say that the parents of this girl should be hanged for what they have done.
Both ways either beheading or acid they are both crimes that people must absolutely not go away with.
That's a ground we may settle on.
You are mixing apples and oranges. Beheading is a punishment as per the law for certain crimes. Throwing acid is not.
I have agreed with you that this is a terrible crime and they should be prosecuted for muder, but you are going off at tangents ..
well it might not be acid cases, but what about "witch" hunts and crusades ? The prosecution of Jews? etc..
Culture has the shadow of religion and vice versa..
If it was only about lack of knowledge and ignorance, why such incidents are not seen amongst people of other religions?
Why interpretation of religious texts is not an issue in other religions?
@britexpat "nigh impossible" but they are still beheading aren't they? they still are throwing acid ,aren't they? I just don't see the point why you still are arguing?
@Bachus you are totally right, Religions IS culture, but well Religious AKA Extreme cultural people got their own views.
Religion is a cultural construct by its very nature. God did not create religion, man did.
What I don't get is why did the father have acid on hand? Did he just carry it around with him just case?
Sorry, but again, I must disagre with you. The topic of adultery has been discussed here many mny times and from what I understand, the stoning is nigh on impossible since the burden of proof required is not easy to get.
Actually it still is, as I told you there are many branches of Islam, and in Islam a women if to says, does adultery (As they claim,a sin) by the laws of Islam she must be stoned to death.
There are views in the branches of Islam which can be dramatically different from a branch to another, like between Shariaa and Sunna there are WAY many more.
So expect anything.
I agree with you.
The only point I was trying to make is that it is cultural and has to do with ignorance and lack of education. Many are following "practices" which have no origins in any religion.
Brit, I think you and I both know what Blosted is talking about. No religion states that acid must be thrown on a person. Never the less, the religion in this case states certain rules must be followed when it comes to the conduct between a man and a woman. If somebody decides these rules have been flouted, action is taken. Not necessarily action according to said religion. This kind of action, killing the girl with acid is, to my knowledge, cultural.
BUT....that the incident happened at all has its roots in the interpretation of said religion.
Do you agree?
Pakistan is an Islamic country , I just guess they run out of stones to throw and went on acids ,or they just wanted a more creative way to torture people.
But it is still the same...torture and murder.
Don't forget ,there are many Islamic "mathaheebs" which are "ways" sort of, like Sunni and Shia'a and way many others.
But the Sunni and Shiaa are the most famous ones.
Just like Christianity and Catholic.
I believe you when you say that you have been religious and so are probably very knowledgeable on the subject.
I have worked and lived in Saudi. Yes, i've seen a beheading, but I am just curious which if any religion states that acid must be thrown for looking at a boy or bringing dishonour.
THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING TO DO WITH!
And if you do not think so, then I'd like you to know with all do confidence you surely like in knowledge about religions...
Just do not debate me further , you are getting on my nerves with your lament coldness like if humans were insects you can just crash whenever you get bored from.
So I'd recommend you for the millionth time to get your fact straight ,I told you I am an Ex-religious so do not try to leap around me.
@Britexpat beheading and stoning are done routinely to what they call "sinners" in K.S.A and all countries that follow Sharia laws.
I know what I am talking about, not making shit up.
No by Sharia laws he cannot be arrested.
And if Jordan was under Sharia laws she would have died anyways doesn't matter if it was her relatives who killed her or by the "laws" ...
So stop being a god damn ignorant.
And lets see what you going to do when somebody shoots the brains out of your relatives just because he thinks in a fancy doo daa!
You are no better than them ,as heartless and soulless as they are.
"Just ask for anybody to arrest him" she says, why don't we do that over a cup of coffee and discuss if he should be left alone or given a gift according to Sharia laws....
Perhaps I am wrong, but please let me know where any religion advocates murder for such an action.
Okay are you really sure it is not about religion? I beg you to let me rectify your error.
IT IS about religion, most of Pakistan is religious , and honor killing is something widely spread in Muslim countries to be more accurate.
Believe me ,it is about religion.
I personally know people who got killed and murdered for "dishonoring the family", so please,do not try to prove me wrong.
And one of them is my distant relative.
There is no excuse for their actions. It is a heinous crime and they must be punished. May she rest in peace.
Having said that , it is nothing to do with religion, but more to do with culture, ignorance and lack of education. So, please keep religion out of it.
believe me, people don't just go and Acid their 15 year old daughter unless they have "faith" in something..
So sad but this kind of incidents happened everywhere in the world
Well the belief in destiny is a dogma in many religions.
too monstrous act!
OMG! destiny has got nothing to do with what they did to the poor girl... :(((
She or he I don't care but this incident happened in Pakistan. That is a fact.
Here we go
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20202686
Why do you want this removed? Are you ashamed of Pakistan and what to keep the bad things hidden?
No, this post won't be removed , if you want I can give you many many sources about incidents like that.
People tend to get offended easily when truth smacks them in the face.
She is talking about the incident in Pakistan but it was probably the Americans fault two pakistanis killed their own daughter.
Source? you are talking if it is "one" incident, how heartless can you be?!
Shhhhhhhh! you can't open any topic about logic or facts or rights and wrongs here....lay down ...or you will get Oops!
"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal