Should he be tried as an adult?
Fury in U.S. as boy, 12, is to be tried as adult for shooting dead his father's pregnant fianceé
By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 12:25 AM on 31st March 2010
A boy of 12 accused of murdering his pregnant stepmother could spend the rest of his life in jail after a judge ruled he should be tried as an adult.
Jordan Brown could become America’s youngest ever ‘lifer’ if found guilty of shooting his father’s eight-months pregnant fiancée dead in her sleep. Brown’s lawyers had argued that he should be tried as a juvenile.
But in an apparent legal first, a court has ruled that he must face an adult court to ensure any future sentence is long enough for his rehabilitation.
Judge Dominick Motto said that if Brown was convicted as a juvenile, he doubted he would be rehabilitated by the time of his release at age 21. In his ruling, he focused on prosecution psychiatrist Dr John O’Brien’s findings that Brown tended to ‘minimise’ the allegations against him.
He wrote: ‘There is no indication of any provocation by the victim that led to her killing. The offence was an execution-style killing of a defenceless pregnant young mother.
‘A more horrific crime is difficult to imagine. It is not likely the defendant can be rehabilitated prior to the expiration of the juvenile court jurisdiction.
'Brown is an individual with significant personality problems that are complicated by his presenting to people in authority a version of himself that does not include the negative aspects.’
Brown is charged with murdering Kenzie Houk and her unborn son Christopher at a remote farmhouse in New Galilee in western Pennsylvania in February last year.
He is alleged to have shot the 26-year-old mother of two in the back of the head as she lay in bed. Prosecutors say Brown, aged 11 at the time, then left the house and went to school. He was later arrested after telling investigators conflicting stories.
Police said the boy owned the gun used in the killing – a youth version of a 20-gauge shotgun. Brown was said to have been jealous of Miss Houk and the impending birth of his brother.
If convicted of first-degree murder in an adult court he will face a mandatory life sentence without parole, the youngest person to do so in American history.
The case stands in stark contrast to the situation in Britain, where the ten-year-old killers of toddler James Bulger – Robert Thompson and Jon Venables – served eight years in a juvenile facility after being convicted of murder in 1993.
Venables is now back in prison having broken the terms of his release.
Yesterday American legal experts were divided over Judge Matto’s ruling, with some strongly condemning it.
Cynthia Orr, of the National Association of Criminal Defence Attorneys, said: ‘It’s simply inappropriate to put a 12-year-old child in the adult prison system.
‘It won’t work. It won’t benefit society or this child.’
Psychologist Laurence Steinberg, an expert on adolescent behaviour and brain biology at Temple University, Philadelphia, said: ‘The idea of taking a child this age and locking them up for life is pretty repugnant.
‘What he allegedly did is repugnant also. But the heinousness of the crime does not make him an adult.’
The youngest person to be charged with murder in the U.S. is Andrew Golden, who was charged at age 11 with killing five people in a school shooting in Arkansas in 1998.
He was tried as a juvenile and the leniency of his ten-year sentence provoked nationwide outcry and led to calls for the law to be changed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1262271/US-boy-Jordan-...
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
No gun but i do carry around my weapon of mass distraction :)
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
FU please re-read "But in an apparent legal first, a court has ruled that he must face an adult court to ensure any future sentence is long enough for his rehabilitation."
Also ‘A more horrific crime is difficult to imagine. It is not likely the defendant can be rehabilitated prior to the expiration of the juvenile court jurisdiction."
From what i gather reading that is they want to put him on trial in an adult court to prolong the sentence he'll get if tried as an adult as compared to what he'll get if tried as a juve. Makes sense to me so far.
No where does it say they will put him in an adult prison..the ruling hasnt come out yet so why jump the gun on this?
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
Since he is a kid AND has committed a crime. Treat him as you would treat other criminals who are 'Kids'. Don't make him an exception.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
FU i dont get what side of the fence you are sitting on. One side you say if he's a killer he'd kill even at the age of 60. The other side you think he should be given a chance to be set free into society again? What guarantee are u giving that he's not got the killer inside of him or that he'll get any better being in juve prison?
Crime = Punishment
If Crime A = to life in prision
and B commits Crime A then find the value X in Crime A = X?
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
is to give him 'less time to wreck havoc' in the society? How logical is that? People like Jeffrey Dahmer could kill so many within few years! If this guy has a killer in him;he will be dangerous even if you release him when he is 60 years of age.
For me, the question is more to do with the norms and exceptions. I dont think he is an exception.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
I've already answered this question before...No the kid doesnt belong in an adult prison NOW...throw him in juve until he turns 21 and then put him in an adult prison. People have issues of whether or not he can get better by the age of 21..and if he should be released into society.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
harsh.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
That's still not an eye for an eye. And "life" means a chance of parole after 25 years. So when this kid is 37 there's a pretty good chance he'll be allowed out.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
This isn't a case of an eye for an eye as nobody is suggesting the death penalty. This is a case of whether or not a 12 year old boy belongs in an adult prison.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
FU those statements look good in Moral science text books.
We should allow all the killers to walk free then, why discriminate between the kids and old ones. After all an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind so if he has killed someone we should forgive him no matter what age he is of.
An eye for an eye doesnt make the whole world blind. There will be at least one person remaining with a pair of eyes.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
But a tooth for a tooth will make them talk less sheet!
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
charge the father, charge the welfare officers that were supposed to detect this kind of activities, charge the whole govt......
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
would you be saying the same thing if it was your closest relative that was killed by a kid?
Its not in my hands to give him anything FU :P I'm not the judge. Killing someone is not an adult crime or kids crime, there's no difference when someone is killed. When the punishment for killing is life in prison why should it matter who the offender is? WE cant say he will change or remain the same 10 years from now. What we do know that the punishment for taking a life is to serve life in prison or be put to death in some countries.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
The chances of him living a normal, productive life are pretty slim, same as Jon Veneables. However I don't believe he's the sole one responsible for this, I believe the father should be charged as well.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
FU he didn't steal candy from his classmates. He killed a pregnant woman, a cold blooded murder.
Talking about giving him a chance???
He didn't even give the unborn child a chance to see the world.
like an adult. Adult Prisons are teeming with criminals who will victimize him and turn him into a monster. There could be n number of reasons for what he did but there could be no reason for treating him more harsly than he deserves. He is not all lost. There is still a hope that he will come out of the prison when he is 21 and lead a normal productive life.
Give him a chance!
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
FU again, i too grew up seeing violent films, gun fights etc but i dont believe a person doesnt know right from wrong at the age of 11 even. What was he thinking when shooting his step mom in the back of her head while she was sleeping then going to school like nothing happened? Agreed this kid has a mental condition, agreed that the environment around him COULD have played a important part in his decision to pick up the gun and shoot. So then he must be punished too right? Thats what the whole discussion here is about. Where do you find sympathy in what he has done?
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
Friedunicorn you are good in filling the blanks, so m I. Because you are my ex boyfriend.:(
Some more than others smoke. People are born as sociopaths ( now referred to as antisocial personality disorder.) Thats just their genetic make-up. These people feel no remorse.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
If I had gun I would have shot few people on QL. the first one would be F________n!
He cannot make his own decisions. He sees voilence, guns, hatred,the environment,broken family and BAM. He is a criminal! Thats what happened with our guy in this case
!
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
Of course we are smoke, but I think some people are born with psychological issues, like schizophrenia, psychosis, etc that make them more likely to kill.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
I believe we are all born with the potential to kill.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
FU, society has a lot to offer not just smoking guns and blazing hoes!
At the end of the day You are responsible for your own actions good or bad.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
I think he was born with the potential to do that, because they say he had serious issues, society just did nothing to stop him from living up to his potential.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Society could have made him a Nobel laureate too but he chose to be a murderer
society. Isn't it ? If the 'father' had brains, if the 'licensing policy' was different,if the 'shotgun' was not there etc. etc. It's the society which made him do what he did. And a little bit of frustration,anger and anxiety.
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
Well maybe it was a bit of both, father and the law at fault. My dad never let me touch his gun even after I turned 18 but maybe it was because he loved the damn thing too much :P
Gun's make it a hell of a lot easier to kill someone. That's been proven in a lot of studies. Also, given that he was 11, she might have been able to fight him off if he tried say stabbing her or something.
If this had happened in Canada the father would be charged with failing to keep the gun in safe conditions.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Is it only the parent thats at blame here? Is the government also not responsible when they allow 11 year olds to own "youth version" shotguns? Youth version or not, it turned out to be lethal in the end.
But then like smoke said, why blame the shooter or the gun? If the kid was twisted, he would've accomplished the murder by some other means.
Ya think deepb??!!! Who the hell gives there 12 year old...sorry 11 at the time of the crime! A shotgun and allows him to use it unsupervised!?
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Here's a thought, Who do you blame the shooter or the gun?
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
According to the article the child owned the shotgun - maybe gun licensing policies should be re-examined?
Whose to blame is his father who despite knowing that his son had "significant personality problems" bought him and trained him to use a shot gun. F-ing moron.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
That's not how the law works - either he gets tried as an adult and sent to normal prison or he gets tried as a juvenile and gets sent to juvenile prison and released at 21. Maybe the law needs some changing eh?
Safer smoke. No need to reward the padeophiles in prison by sending them a "bagged lunch"
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
FU that's the easiest excuse I hear, blame it on society.
Olive you think he'd be safe in juve prison? :P
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
Society makes killers? How so? Everyone has a choice to do something good or bad.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
I think juve till 21 is the best option. I just shudder to think of a 12 year old boy, regardless of what he's done, thrown smack dab into a pool of padeophiles.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
Agree with smoke, throw him into a juvenile jail till he is 21 and then transfer him to an adult jail. You don't want him in a jail full of criminals, I won't want him in the society.
I dont think this murder was accidental for him to be shown any mercy. He took the life of TWO..the mother and the unborn baby that has not even seen day light. No sympathy from me for this moron.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
If he can commit an adult crime he should be tried as an adult. You are very aware of what is right and wrong at that age so why should he get off lightly for killing a woman and her unborn child!!!!
he learned to use the gun from adults. let him learn about jail life also from adults.
Well the lass can be tried as an adult to get an adult sentence and then thrown into juvi prison till he is 21 then transferred to an adult prison to meet new friends.
Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)
_[]~«ŠѪΘҜΞ»~[]_
left in him. He will turn out to be a bigger criminal. He must be given a chance.
And when Child Molestors and Rapists can get out with stupid excuses;why can't this child be treated as what he 'actually' is? A Child!
Source:
- A study Conducted by FriedUnicorn - Vol I (September,1999)
"Resident Attention Seeker"
So you think it's ok to through a 12 year old into a prison full of rapists, pedophiles & murderers?
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
send him to the gallows.
Olive he stopped being a child when he decided to murder someone in my opinion. We can blame the society, the upbringing and everything else related to it but the damage is done now and he should be facing the full charges without any leniency.
Many adult prisons don't have sufficient rehabilitation facilities, those that do do have a higher rate of non-repeaters. Fact is though, if he goes into an adult prison at 12 he's not going to be coming out.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
Does the prison system really rehabilitate anyone? I just see it as a means to punishment, a very small percentage actually go in and come out a better person.
I question the move to try him as an adult. While I don't think juve will be enough for him I don't believe there's even less benefit in him going to an adult prison.
literal people are scary, man, literal people scare me
out there trying to rid the world of its poetry while getting it wrong fundamentally down at the church of "look,it sez right here, see!" Ani Difranco
I don't smoke.
Edit- Wrong post. I don't think he should be tried as an Adult.
On hindsight maybe Jon venables should have been tried as an adult. That's what I believe anyway.
Same opinion for this case, he should be tried as an adult.
I don't think he deserves life, but he needs to be tried as an adult as juvenile detention will not be justice for the crime he committed. He would be out at 21. He needs to be held accountable for his actions and shown that he cannot behave that way.
Way to often the courts are to soft on young criminals which does not help them or society. He needs severe counseling, behavior modification, and to serve hard time for what he did.