QatarCat you are always taking my jokes before I get a chance to say them :P. You like long hair on a guy. Ick. I keep picturing Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise in Interview with a Vampire.
I'm going to have to be more careful about what I say. Super already knows that I have long hair and my name starts with an E and I may or may not have hairy legs LOL :). I better not say what colour hair or the next letter in my name. ;)
QCat imagine that!! If women were completely covered in hair there would be complete anarchy, society would completely breakdown because all the men would be wild with lust. >:O
I don't think you can get a virus from opening the file but rather if you were saving/downloading it.....It's not a video by the way but a powerpoint....
I don't Marjorie, my hair is pretty lust inspiring. Especially since I haven't been able to get it cut in while and it's thrown back in a pony tail. I have guys lined up outside drooling! ;)
There are obvious differences between men's bodies and women's bodies, but it's not at all obvious that this means the standardsd of modesty should be different. Would you have different standards based on other physical differences? Should tall people have to cover more than short people? Should blondes have to cover more than brunettes? These are obvious physical differences, but they don't lead to differences in modesty. The fact that men and women are different is not enough of an argument that they should be treated differently.
I don't buy the argument that hair ITSELF leads to lustful thoughts. Women in most of the world -- even other conservative cultures -- DO show their hair to men, without it leading to all kinds of illicit things. Because men who grow up in these parts of the world are used to seeing women's hair, it doesn't make them think evil thoughts. It's only when a body part is covered in a given culture that it becomes eroticized for people in that culture. There's nothing erotic about hair itself.
As for a chat room, I can see both points. I like being able to read what everyone else has written, but I do think we need some sort of private message board, incase something needs to be said that can't be said in front of the rest of the board.
As for a chat room, I can see both points. I like being able to read what everyone else has written, but I do think we need some sort of private message board, incase something needs to be said that can't be said in front of the rest of the board.
And just because a man can see my hair and face doesn't mean I'm going to jump into bed with him! That's not a very high opinion of a womens willpower.
I have my appearance commented on admiringly on almost a daily basis by many different men, I don't have sex with them.
Just because you men can't control your own lusts and jealousies without covering women in black cloth doesn't mean that we women should suffer for that.
We have brains, desires, lusts and jealousies of our own, and we can make our own decisions on how to deal with them, we don't need men to make the decision for us.
You want to tell me that a women body is like man's body Marjorie?
You want to tell me that women's nature is like man's nature?
No sorry, I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that.
You are talking about man's handsomeness infront of other ladies. Well, if the lady that is looking a straight lady then she wouldn't look at figuring out his body eh?
When I say a wife's beauty is for her husbend means in our religion (Jelousy). Why some women become mad when thier husbend starring at another women?? why? Jelousy on him! .. this man is for her not for some other lady! ....it's the same thing here .. showing her body or whatever and making other men looking at her hair and her body wich will lead to other worng things (like wifes sleeping with other men and men sleeping with other women as an example). That's one of the reasons why God ordered us to cover our ladies hair and body exept thier faces and hands.
"Women freedom doesn't mean wearing naked tight clothes and shake body just to attract other men, but it means that women is respected and can share men in life."
No, "freedom" means being able to exercise choice. That includes the ability to make bad choices! If you only give women the "freedom" to do things you think they should be doing anyway, that's by definition not freedom.
"Sorry, but I can't imagin my wife -for example- showing her body or her hair to other men becasue her beauty is fer her husbend and family."
Why is it that a woman's beauty is only for her husband, but a husband's handsomeness isn't only for his wife? If you want to argue that people's bodies should only be seen by their spouses, fine, but then it should be true for men as well. You speak as though it's self-evident that the rules should be different for the different genders, but to us that's not obvious at all.
As for what's "normal," in most societies women show their hair to men other than their husbands! I show my hair to everybody all day, and it would never occur to my husband that he was being cheated out of something rightfully his. It's only if you've grown up in a society that expects something to be covered that is seems "normal" to do so.
Having women in positions of authority is always a good sign, BUT that doesn't change the fact that many women live in families that don't allow them what the international community considers basic freedoms. What about women like Hamda Al-Thani who are held prisoners by their family when the family disapproves of their choices? The fact that the head of QU is a woman doesn't do Hamda any good, does it?
I'm not sure what you're implying about Madeleine Albright and Judaism?
"Well, we all know the story of prophet Lot when God destroyed his people becasus they disobayed him and make same-sex activites :D"
Actually, we don't all know that story. I'm a Christian, and in the Bible it says that Lot's town was destroyed because it "had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy" (Ezekiel 16:49). There's also a story in the Bible where the people in Lot's town try to rape an angel, but rape is hardly the same thing as "same-sex activities," is it? (And anyway, God had already decided to destroy it at that point.)
Many Christians are opposed to homosexuality, because there are a handful of verses that have been interpreted to prohibit it, but that view point is by no means universal.
And as for a chatroom, I hope Qatari (who has long given up on us, by the way, I guess we just got out of control, lol) would be kind enough to make one for us on this site, where we could see who's online and chat, if we want.
LOL Qatarcat. I'd have to agree with you there, my mother is definitly a higher power.
The reason I don't use the term GOD TG is because it comes with associations from various relgions that I probably don't agree with. It's easier to say higher power, something that got this whole crazy ball rolling. I've just had to many things happen in my life to pass it up to coincidence, but I don't believe that any of the religions have got it right.
Sorry, I believe in QatarCat's orginal idea to start a chatroom, I beleive several of us has reititeratred it several times, as I reititerate that I can't spell.
Well it seems that QC and DG agree with the concept of a higher power..not Super
A little story in a barber shop when the barber was arguing the guy about existence of GOD..When after the haircut..the guy went out and came back and declared..Barbers don't exist..If they did there wont be so many bearded fellas..
The barber replied..I have my shop here..who ever comes will have a cut..
Precisely said the man..GOD is for those who wish to visit his shop..
I believe I can't spell. And that I have work to do. And that TG's idea to start a chat room is a good one. And that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And that some chicks are into hunchbacks, and that its ok to be a virgin and that it's ok not to be a virgin. And that no one is ever going to agree on this subject because we are all products of our upbringing.
tg I don't question it at all. I am utterly certain that neither I nor anyone else will have a life after death. The thing I find truly galling is that I can't then say to all the people who spent all that effort "believing"...."I told you so!"
I believe in the exsistence of a higher power, but I believe religion is created by human begings, more specifically men as a form of conservative control and therefore not holy.
I believe in fate and destiny, and that we are all here for a purpose. And I hope there is something after death, but I don't know.
MJ, you are going to get me fired, because I'm spending more time arguing on this forum than I am at work :).
MJ, you seem like a very reasonable man, for one second, if you can, I would like you to put yourself in a womens shoes. Especially an Islamic womens shoes. And imagine what it would be like to be that controlled by the men in your life, and ask yourself WHY men should have that control over you.
Oh man MJ, I'm at work, I don't have time to argue that point.
Let's just say that freedom for a women means freedom to control her life and every aspect of it, from her body, what she chooses to wear or who she chooses to sleep with, to her education and what she chooses to learn and study.
It's having the same freedoms as men. Now in Western society men are more free than men in Islamic society, because men in Islamic society are subject to the restrictions of the religion. Whether they follow those rules or not is an entirely different subject. SO in Western society women want the same freedoms as Western men.
And being human beings we are entitled to those freedoms. That being said, it is a VAST sterotype to assume that all Western women are going out and having sex with every guy they meet, or even if they are, why should it matter? Freedom from that sterotype is now what we have to fight.
I'm glad to hear you don't actually hate me. :-D But I wasn't as convinced as Ferrin that you're a secret Christian-hater and American-hater, anyway!
And I pretty much agree that Canada is better than the U.S. You already have so many of the mind-numbingly obvious policies that ought to be in place in the States but aren't, like univeral health care.
As for religious Canadians, I used to be in an online discussion group with a bunch of clergy from the United Church of Canada. They were fabulous people. Such a sensible denomination! It seemed a lot like my denomination would be, if the South didn't have an enormous voting bloc at our general conferences. :-D (I just visited their website, and within two clicks got information on how to have a clergy bless a same-sex union. w00t!)
You can't imagine your wife, your sister or your daughter doing things that you yourself are doing without thinking. Bringing an example of Aisha (which I wouldn't have unless you started it), I have one thing to tell you - I am FREE to go and meet you and other Qatarliving members at Chilis, and so are you, but Aisha is not. There starts and ends all her so called freedom.
Letting women hiding thier faces is not necessary that thier families in forcing them to do so, but also many them choosed to wear it. In the Qur'an God ordered women to wear scarf and cover thier body only thier faces and hands, but he did not mention about covering faces.
Unfortunately women freedeom became body freedom in the western world and many women in our world misunderstood freedom. Women freedom doesn't mean wearing naked tight clothes and shake body just to attract other men, but it means that women is respected and can share men in life. In Qatar women work and participate everywhere. I saw Qatar women working everywhere; in banks, ministries, companies, sociaties .. bla bla bla! Thousands and thousands of Qatari girls studying in different specializations (take Aisha for example) and in different universities. Many Qatari girls are well educated and share men in positions. Her Highness Shiekha Moza, Her Highness the Minister of Education, The president of Qatar University, the manager of Health Center in Ritz-Carlton are good examples of Women holding high postions. Also, we see women participating in ellections and contributing in many fields! I see lots of women shopping alone without men and talking to men in shops and markets! :)
So what freedom are you talking about? To let a women free to sleep with defferent men? Or to let my daughter to go out with boy to make some forbidden activites and comeback and break up with him after a couple of month to move with another boy? Eh? :D
Many girls in the western world fall into drugs, early pregnancy, school failure and many other stuff! Why? becasue they became 18 and they are free??? :)
Sorry, but I can't imagin my wife -for example- showing her body or her hair to other men becasue her beauty is fer her husbend and family. Do not tell me it's normal because a man is man and will always hunt for women attractions.
You do not have to teach muslim girls about having sex aith boys and results becasue the religion educates them that having such actitivities with boys is forbidden because bla bla bla and marrage is the best solution. I have seen lots of Qatari girls who are studying in collages and universities and in the same time they eighter married or engaged.
Because unfortunatly in many parts of the world women are still viewed as chattel or objects, or in someway lesser to men. And the emphasis on female virginity has been entrenched in humanity, in every culture, since the beginning of time.
And because (and nobody start saying that I hate men, I don't hate men) men are raised, even in Western society, with this idea of the perfect women and wife. Stay at home, raise the children, virtous, pretty. Guys look for their mothers in their potential wife. No guy would ever like to think that their mother wasn't a virgin.
There are certain members in the forum who are keen to chat...Here is an idea...
Create a Yahoo ID..A new one if you are not keen to get your regular one disturbed by it...and lets chat at Yahoo...
Though I wont be able to chat from office...Evenings are fine....
I have just found a weird handle(name) to start chatting...
Drop me a line at [email protected] and those who are hesitant to send their IDs here.. ..We can decide how we want others to join in......Please while you Email make sure that you mention the Qatarliving handle so that I know whom I am chatting with....
Spot on, Marjorie. I don't see how consentual sex in general is government's business.
And I don't know why people in this part of the world think that only girls can be virgins, or lose their virginity. What's the big deal with virginity anyways? Nobody bothers whether a man is a virgin or not, why such derogatory discrimination against women?
I don't hate you Marjorie, or Christians. I do hate the current AMerican government and I wrongly tend to paint the rest of the US with that brush. Also, I unfortunately, seem to only meet GI's from the US, and they are by no means the best example of Liberal American thinking.
When I think of the US, the COnservative Right and Liberalism I always think of it in terms of my own upbringing as a Canadian. Canada is by no means perfect, but in comparison to the US we have always leaned far more to the liberal left, and in the end we have a smaller crime rate, strict gun laws, legalized abortion, gay marriage, almost legalized marijuana, universal health care, and are not involved in Iraq.
Whether it is simply cultural differences or the fact that Canadians are just more liberal, we seem to have a happier more settled society.
Granted, I'm not COnservative or Relgious, I'm about as left wing as you can get, so I can't speak for COnservative Religious Canadians and if they are happy with the way our country "is going to hell in a handbasket" LOL :). I'm happy as long as everyone else has the freedom to be happy and live their lives the best way they see fit, as long as they don't hurt others.
I am sure that his low rating means that he is not very popular. (Although I can't understand how come he is still in power.)
And I am sure that his low rating means that most people at least in America disapprove of their president. I guess I just wasn't lucky in meeting these people. As I have said, I met both kinds, and most were pro-Bush. Maybe it has to do with Americans living in the Middle East?
And though most Americans believe that the war in Iraq was a mistake, the headlines of today's Gulf Times say that more troops are being sent to Iraq.
"Then of course the majority of the Americans I've met are pro-Bush, pro-guns, pro-war in Iraq, pro-everything that gives them the feeling of power and superiority."
Last I checked, Bush's approval rating was hovering around 31%. (He's almost exactly as disapproved-of as Nixon was just before his resignation.) I sure wish I had a nickel for every time in the last six years I've read the headline "Bush approval hits new low."
A majority of Americans now believe that the war in Iraq was a mistake.
I always love your posts (even though I'm an American and a Christian and therefore you hate me, LOL) because they're always rational and well-reasoned. But, as much as it pains me to defend the U.S., I don't think you're 100% right here.
As hard as the current administration is pushing abstinence-only education, it's currently only being taught in about a third of schools, according to Planned Parenthood. I was given decent sex ed in high school.
The legal state of affairs regarding gay rights is pretty abysmal, but it's not true that there's NO hate crimes law. The last figures I saw were that 32 states plus DC had hate crimes laws that include sexual orientation. It's not enough, but it's something.
I totally agree that the religious right is out of control, and that the fundamentalist influence in American politics and society is an evil. The American political landscape is bleak enough without exaggerating any. :-/
Mostly with this: Americans should sort their own problems instead of trying to "save" the rest of the world. They couldn't even deal with a hurricane!
I've met some really nice people from the USA, and most of them are deeply ashamed of their country and its policies, both international and domestic, imagine that! Then of course the majority of the Americans I've met are pro-Bush, pro-guns, pro-war in Iraq, pro-everything that gives them the feeling of power and superiority. And on top of that you get a leader who is preaching Christian values while doing his best to destroy the values of others.
Dress all women in black and hide their faces and not let them out to meet men and scare them with fairy tales about the horrible repercussions if they do OR
Do you allow women the freedom to do as they please enjoy all the same freedoms as men educate all fully about sex and empower them to make decisions and as a consequence face the social problems from a small minority who make mistakes?
At least there is a reason why many msulims leave thier fatherlands. Most of the reasons that thier country do not offer them Jobs (and keep hiring people outsand also to get passports and green cards and come back home.
I know a South African family here who always complain about Qatar and things but they do want to go back to thier fatherland (although they always say good things about thier country)? Many westerns and easterns do say the same. Why? Why would a spanish guy who told me that he would like to live in Doha? Well, most of them talked about safety and quiteness.
Make some money? Well, I though your countries pay you more as they are rich eh? Or is it becasue taxes are breaking peoples' back there?
"when the society liberalism reaches upto such a level that 99.9 percent girls lose their virgincy at the age of 15-17, then this relationship actually involves lust or unended materialistic desire which reflects a society of animals where there is no discrimination between relations."
So what. People have sex, deal with it. Stop denying sex and treating it like its some dirty little thing. (Though how sex and unended materialistic desire are connected I don't know, I've never had sex for money).
I don't see you using the age when most boys lose their virginity. Why is it that only female virginity is prised. It's an outdated sexist belief that women must be virgins upon marriage.
Ferrin, you actually managed to prove what I said in your statement.
"Most people don't seem to realize that when citizens are disarmed then they are left defenselesss should they be attacked by their government leaders."
Listen to yourself!
Americans live in a society of constant fear and paranoia. There is no purpose to a handgun except to shoot people. Charleton Heston himself said that the reason that there are so many shootings in the US and why there are so many guns is because there is so much racial diversity.
Watch CNN, Fox News, the constant fear that you instill in your own populace.
And as for whether or not I like Christians, I beleive I said that I don't like fundamentalists, of any religious sect. I don't understand why its not ok to have an abortion but its ok to send your child off to Iraq to die in a pointless war that was simply started by the greed of your own government. Your government's killing you now I don't see you defending yourselves?
And as for judging Americans on an individual basis, I do, unfortunately I've met very few that I can stand to talk to for more than 2 seconds. Most of them are loud, arrogant and ignorant, due to the poor education and general brainwashing that Americans have to endure. And having visited many African American and Latino communities in the US I don't know how the United States can judge others when they have horrible human rights violations and poverty of their own.
I think the major problems in the United States are caused by the CHristian Right, which if nobody watches the news for all of you arguing that liberalism is destroying the US, is the body in power.
The United States is dealing with the fact that the majority of the United States is part of the Liberal Left, unfortunately those in power are the minority Christian Right, which is choosing to ignore or beat down the changes the United States are going through. Teenagers are having sex, thats a fact, but the Conservative Government refuses to allow sex education in the classroom. They refuse to supply money for AIDS in Africa because they beleive that AIDS is caused by promiscuity and therefore that is something the COnservative Christian Right doesn't want to promote.
Homosexuality is out and proud in the United States, but there are still no set hate crime laws, or even the allowance of rights to homosexual couples.
Children are taught to use guns at young ages, guns which are readily available at WalMart or wherever. So when they get angry at the bullies in school they are more than capable of getting a gun and going and shooting them, the guns are everywhere. IF the guns weren't available they would have a much harder time shooting people now wouldn't they.
The United States touts itself as being the freedom fighter or the world and the shining beacon of freedom and it's at war with itself. IT's instituted Homeland Security laws that are reminiscent of Nazi Germany. I could go on and on, but that fact is , is that Americans are hypocrits. You blame the Islamic world for fundamentalists, when you can't control fundamentalism in your own country.
Why do millions of Muslims and Arabs in particular are fighting tooth and nail to immigrate to USA or Europe, although these places are clearly the pits of sin and vice?
:^)
We come here to experience life abroad, make some money, enjoy cultural diversity. We can do well back home, too.
I did not view the video (I'm avoiding viruses--I'm sharing this computer and have to be extra careful, so I didn't open it). So I can't comment on the video (other than saying that IF the people on it were spewing hate and lies, then I disagree with them--but I wouldn't know). However, I do want to comment on what you said:
"And as for shootings in schools! LOL, most of those occur in highly Christian areas of the United States, because these people truly beleive in the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms and teach their children to use guns without teaching them that its wrong to shoot others."
"Don't get me wrong, I hate Americans as much as the next person, they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrits who pick on poorer countries when they can't even stop poverty in their own."
Well, dohagirl, you've made it crystal clear that you hate Christians and Americans. You have the right to hate anyone you want. As for me, I will continue to judge people on a individual basis and try my best to avoid hateful people who judge others and lump them all into one group before they even get to know them.
I've known lots of people who believe in the 2nd Amendment (myself included, although I've never owned a gun), but I've certainly never known anyone who thought it was OK for their kids to shoot others! I challenge you to give me an example of a Christian parent who taught their child to use a gun without teaching them it's wrong to shoot others. Hateful, outlandish statements are a hallmark of fundamentalists. How ironic!
I don't want to start a discussion on gun control, but most people don't seem to realize that when citizens are disarmed, then they are left defenseless should they be attacked by their government leaders (Hitler disarmed the Germans for a reason! One example among many. Most tyrants disarm their citizens!): http://www.xmission.com/~ranthon/hitler-and-guns.htm
I don't expect everyone to agree on politics, religion, culture, gun control, abortion, modesty, morality, global warming or anything else. The world will always have differing viewpoints. If only we could find a way to disagree peacefully and respectfully, without hating those who disagree with us.
being a human being some restrictions are applicable to all humans within the frame work of a good human society.ur sexual relationships with ur life partner r understandable but when the society liberalism reaches upto such a level that 99.9 percent girls lose their virgincy at the age of 15-17, then this relationship actually involves lust or unended materialistic desire which reflects a society of animals where there is no discrimination between relations.
I agree with you that the West is too materialistic, but I don't know what that has to do with Lili's post. Do you think Westerners believe strongly in individual liberties because we're materialistic?
lili, the post is a real truth to which the west is ignoring all the way just because to have materialistic benefits and desires. these materialistic desires and liberalism have led them astray and they have no way to come back.
My experience as a journalist is that crimes are regular in Arabic countries as well. Homosexuality, eve teasing, rapes, adultery - all are existent. I have noticed many of these but there are so many restrictions on press also. Ruling class will stop you from publishing all these. With the Us and other countries things are open, individual rights are of prime importance.
Arabian countries do not understand they are creating a kind of inferno. If they do not open up things will heat up a lot and one day it would be beyond control.
It's better to bring conflict out in open and discuss it threadbare. there is no harm in mixing of boys and girls. What is interesting is many of the ultra rich Sheikhs do marry Americans and Europeans or Lebanese, who never follow the so called conservative traditions of Islam. They will however continue to preach and push the same old conservatism.
This hypoicrisy should come to a stop. dohagirl, I would agree with you that Americans are not so likeable objects all the time but they are definitely less hycoprite than many others from this part of the world.
I agree with you dohagirl to a great extent. Arabian countries have somehow got involved in some kind of dilemma. There is immense competition among the Muslims to prove who are the better Muslims.
Muslims in Turkey are in no way less devout to those who support Osama and others. Certain countries have changed the very concept of humanity by blocking everything. All societies filter the things before accepting them.
I would like to draw some comparisons between India and China on one hand and Arabian countries on the other hand. both India and China were undr colonial powers for so long, much longer than any Arabian countries. But they have differed in their reactions. Both these countries hate the Western Powers but are definitely not xenophobic. They are in pursuit of defeating the Americans and Europeans in their own games. They are thus considered the new movers & shakers in world arena.
On contrary Arabian countries are so reactionary in their approach and have moulded Islam (A religion of peace) to justify their reactions. This is what ailing them. What is the logic behind higher unemployment rates in Arabic countries like Saudi Arabia or Oman and UAE. This is inexcusable.
Doha: A Qatari national may face death sentence for raping a female relative and abusing another man along with three other suspects, a Qatari newspaper reported yesterday.
The case came one week after a landmark judgment where a Qatari couple got five years in jail for assaulting a maid, who has been lying in a coma for two years now.
"Qataris should not believe they are above the law," sources at the trial told Gulf News quoting the judge as saying at the trial.
Although it was the first sentence of its kind in the country, members of the Indonesian Women's Association attending the trial complained that the sentence was too mild.
Deterrent
In the former case brought to the Criminal Court on Wednesday, the public prosecutor asked for the "maximum possible sentence" against four rapists, three Qataris and an Egyptian, "to serve as a lesson" for those who plan to commit such crimes, the English-language Gulf Times said.
The four men are accused of raping a 22-year-old Qatari woman, a relative of one of the convicts, and abusing another man on November 26, 2005. The Criminal Court is due to issue its verdict on June 6.
"We ask for maximum possible punishment to serve as a lesson to those who dare perpetrate such an obscene crime," the prosecutor was reported as saying by court reporters at the trial.
Under Article 283, Section 11 of the Criminal Code, sexual abuse of a man carries a maximum penalty of 15 years' jail.
However the Gulf Times reported a legal source as saying that one of the Qatari convicts, who is also a relative of the victim, could be sentenced to death under Article 279, Section 11 of the 2004 Criminal Code.
According to the charges filed by the prosecution, the two victims were forcibly pulled out of a car in a public place on November 25 last year and abused. A forensic expert told the judges on Wednesday that semen samples found on the clothes of the victim matched those of the accused. However, he said there were traces of semen of a fifth person.
This is not the first case at the Criminal Court, where prosecutors ask for more stringent punishments against convicts, including Qatari nationals to set 'model sentences' that would discourage crimes
As I said in my very long post before, just because these crimes aren't advertized doesn't mean they aren't happening. Many crimes here and in the rest of Asia and the Gulf, especaially crimes against women, don't make it out into the public. In the West we publizise it to sell papers or to cause outrage so society will change.
I will not talk about America, but I guess it will be interesting to note that the whopping portion of the crimes in Europe is committed by immigrants... who come from.. guess where? No, not USA. Yes, Africa, Asia and Middle East.
Its not all religion i agree, but religion has a part. Here in qatar, for example, religion still forms the basis for laws. Since this is the case, they will change very little as time goes by. For example, capital punishment is a religious requirement, it cannot change unless the judicial system becomes secular. Once that happens it is upto prevailing attitudes to define the laws and (using the UK as an example) they tend to become more and more "liberal" with time.
You remind me of the story of that black boy who was killed by another teenager with an ax in britain 7 months ago. I was in Chester watching the news of this issue everyday at that time .. the murderer said that he killed him because of his colour. It was horrible mate ...
I agree GIASI, I feel much safer here than in the US. I feel safer anywhere in the world than the US, but I do not think it has anything to do with the prescense or lack of religion. There is something wrong with the US that goes way past religion. No other Western nation faces half of their problems. Trying to point a single thing wrong with the US is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Though it is fact that gulf countries do tend to be secretive about their crime figures, i seriously doubt that they are as high (relatively) than the US.I dont have any figures (maybe someone else will prove me wrong) but the reality still remains that I FEEL safer here. We might sometimes complain about the severe nature of the judicial system or law enforcement, but we welcome the relative security it brings. I know, for example, in the UK, schools have changed (for the worse) and crimes seem to be more frequent and more severe (or maybe im just getting old). I feel its down to more liberal treatment and Political Correctness (be it students in schools or criminals).
Sorry, one more point, I Know I am talking to much. :)
But I loved in the thing how it said nobody said anything when people started creating child porn! What culture allows child porn! Not any Western one I know.
Unfortunately MJ, since most cultures other than Islamic ones allow boys and girls to mix I can't blame teenage sexual activity on the mixing of boys and girls. And frankly I don't believe there is any problem with boys and girls mixing or with having sexual relations before marriage, as long as it's done safely.
The Vatican said that condoms are a lesser sin than contracting AIDS. And AIDS levels in the US, Europe and Canada are no where near AIDS levels in Africa, India or China and probably actually come closer to AIDS levels in the Middle East which simply aren't publicised. Africa, India and China are far less liberal about sexual freedom than the US. Ignoring something, or simply not allowing girls and boys to intermingle doesn't stop AIDS from happening. How many Arab men have multiple sex partners?
Shootings in schools happen in US culture, there are very very few incidents in any other Western culture. I think the answer is more related to lax gun laws and overpopulation than violent movies or video games. There aren't very many Qatari boys who haven't watched every American action movie ever made. And if I had one more boy use the term "nigger" just because 50 cent used it I was going to smack one of them. Also Arab boys prefer to use their cars to kill others instead of guns. And I believe if you read the Gulf TImes there's a rape/assault/murder case in court now involving three Qatari boys and one Egyptian. Violent crimes happen in all socieites. The difference is the US really loves to publisize theres.
Why do you only hear about sexual relations between teachers and students or abortions in the Western world? Because they aren't discussed here, but don't confuse that with it not happening. For a project that I'm working on now it was revealed the 50% of women in the Middle East, India, Pakistan and South East Aisia who do not attend schools (and the number is high) do so because of sexual harrasment from a teacher.
It is not the schools place to strengthn anyones beleif. As you said, here is 99% Muslim, but in Canada and the US, people come from a variety of backgrounds and beliefs, HIndi, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Morman, Jeovah's Witness, etc. Religious teaching is best left at home and removed from the schools. THat is to say nothing would prevent you from leaving the classroom and praying when you need to, we just don't try to force religion on anyone. You cannot blame schools for childrens values or lack there of, it is parents who instill values in their children.
As for sex movies and violent movies, a lot actually come from Japan, China and Europe. The American sex industry has been pretty defunct since the 80's. And nobody is asking you to show American movies at your movie theaters, if you don't want to watch them, don't go.
Don't get me wrong, I hate Americans as much as the next person, they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrits who pick on poorer countries when they can't even stop poverty in their own. But I believe the major problem in the country isn't the lack of religious/conservative influence, but to much of it. Religion doesn't belong in the government anymore than it does in the schools.
And I liked the "where sex movies are made" comment from MJ.
Just so you know, the best ones are made in Europe, the American ones are not that good.
And well, you don't HAVE to watch them, right? ;-)
It's like saying that since sugar leads to obesity (i.e. just like sex movies lead to sex crimes) - then lets ban sugar (would do good to many in the Middle East, by the way), or better still, let's blame sugar producing nations. Blah
in fact it could be said that it was perpetrated from individuals who came from cultures who believed and 'followed' these values that the writer of the powerpoint presentation wants obviously so desperately 'reintroduced' in the US.
Sex education do exist in a different approach in Highscool in Biology here in arabic schools. Then comes the parents job to teach thier youths about it inlcuidng the teachings and fundementals of the relgion on this issue.
Well, mixing schools mostly leads to sexual relations bwteen a boy and a girl isn't it DohaGril? I don't know what did vatican said about condoms but I know that Chritanity forbids such activity. Why do you think that our cultures aren't suffering Aids as much as the western world?
Also, why do you think schools murdering occures mostly in the states and europe? Does these movies affects young people? If so, then why school murdering and gun shootings doesn't exist in our culture?
Why do we hear alot of sexual relationship ctrimes between teachers and students in the western world while it's almost dosn't exist here? And why do we hear lots of abortions and its terms in the western world?
Don't worry about doing prayer, as from my side I used to leave my class sometimes just to do my prayer and come back within 10 minutes which many students do.
We do teach religion of Islam in our schools becasue 99% of the students are muslims. Yes, maybe some of them aren't really religious, but what's wrong when schools try to strong thier faith? While in the western world many schools do not teach religions becasue there are different believes and unbelievers.
You said that people blame the Americans? Now you tell me where does most of sex movies are made? Where are most of violence and action movies are made? Globalization is actually Americanization.
The culture and religion are obviously (to me) American Christian Fundamentalists, who like to blame everything wrong with the United States on Liberal views and lifestyles and not their own Republican, Conservative, money driven greed and misguided value system.
In my opinion these guys have interpreted the Bible as well as Osama Bin Laden has interpreted the Koran, they like to blame all of America's problems, and even some things that aren't problems (like condoms in schools) on the more liberal American set, who aren't in power and are having a very difficult time getting any of their agenda through the government.
I personally find the Abortion bit funny since most of the United States doesn't allow abortion anyway. (whether you agree with or not, I personally am pro-choice, but I hope this doesn't turn into an abortion issue cause that's a real dangerous can of worms).
In Canada we teach religion in history class, after we teach Creation we teach Evolution (at least I was) that way children are given both sides of the story. There is no prayer in school because prayer in school is segregational, I'm sure Lili, Aisha or MJ would hate having to do the Lords Prayer before class.
As for condoms, even the Vatican has said they are acceptable now. I think its far wiser to teach safe sex in schools than ignoring that teenagers may have sex. An example from when I was teaching here in Doha was 16 year old girls thinking that you can only get pregnant if you are married. In this day and age, regardless of your reilgion and personal values, that kind of thinking is dangerous. Sex education is not just about teaching kids to use protection, it's about health issues and options, so if kids are preassured into having sex outside marriage, they at least won't end up in trouble.
And as for shootings in schools! LOL, most of those occur in highly Christian areas of the United States, because these people truly beleive in the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms and teach their children to use guns without teaching them that its wrong to shoot others.
September 11 was brought about by globalization and the fact that traditional sects can't handle the influence of the US (whether rightly or wrongly) and the inability of the United States to keep it's nose out of the sands of someone elses desert and someone elses culture.
Christian fundamentalists are like fundamentalists everywhere, they misinterpret the Bible to suit their own beleifs, whether its banning the teaching of evolution in schools or shooting doctors who preform abortions, or hanging black people from trees.
I'm afraid it depends on the religion and the culture ButterFly. It's impassobile to generalize such things ....
For example, using condoms for boys and girls is like motovating them to make forbidden & illigal relationship and activities in some religions and societies.
Condoms prevent diseases, so is perfectly ok to give it to young boys and girls.
Abortion is murder and it should never be allowed.
Music, films etc... Freedoom of expression. If you don´t like it, you don´t have to watch it.
Educate your children. Discipline YES. Abuse NO.
I couldn´t care less about someones private life as long as he does his job. Take Bill Clinton, a truly good president, why should I care what he does with who in his privacy?
Jeez, where did they get their information from, the Jerry Springer Show! There's more holes in that then a seive.
God Bless American Christian Fundmentalism and their distortion of the truth!
Unfortunatly I did open that at work and the way it suddenly jumped up in red took me (and my boss who was standing behind me!) by surprise. oops. You should put a warning on that Lili :)
Thank God that most of these things aren't happening in our world. But unfiortunately its moving towards us. TV music channels are examples of poisons that spoils our lives & spirits.
Qatar's winter months are brimming with unmissable experiences, from the AFC Asian Cup 2023 to the World Aquatics Championships Doha 2024 and a variety of outdoor adventures and cultural delights.
Fasten your seatbelts and get ready for a sweet escape into the world of budget-friendly Mango Sticky Rice that's sure to satisfy both your cravings and your budget!
Celebrate World Vegan Day with our list of vegan food outlets offering an array of delectable options, spanning from colorful salads to savory shawarma and indulgent desserts.
THIS.....
THIS!!!!
.
Yup it must be sexier... training dolphins is not sexy because they are hairless!
Sure it is. ;)
Naa my job is much more exciting and way sexier.
YOu mean your not a Dolphin Trainer!!! My hopes and dreams have been shattered :(
Funny about the Dolphin trainer. I had someone email me to ask me advice about a career with Dolphins.
Well now I know that you are a Dolphin Trainer and a kitesurfer, so I'll just have to stay away from the beach ;)
Watch out DG!!
QatarCat you are always taking my jokes before I get a chance to say them :P. You like long hair on a guy. Ick. I keep picturing Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise in Interview with a Vampire.
I'm going to have to be more careful about what I say. Super already knows that I have long hair and my name starts with an E and I may or may not have hairy legs LOL :). I better not say what colour hair or the next letter in my name. ;)
Long ponytail, name begins with E.. hairy legs :p
If it were a description of a man, I'd say "sexy sexy!"
Therefore, men should remove hair (or at least cover it) because it is SEXY.
Yeah I guess I'm more of a.....everything else man/elf
Still I am putting together a picture. Long ponytail, name begins with E.
I knew you weren't serious about being driven crazy by hair. ;)
errrr......no don't Dohagirl
Please don't
In that case I'm going to stop shaving my legs this second!
QCat imagine that!! If women were completely covered in hair there would be complete anarchy, society would completely breakdown because all the men would be wild with lust. >:O
If hair itself is such a turn on, why do women remove hair?? :p
I don't think you can get a virus from opening the file but rather if you were saving/downloading it.....It's not a video by the way but a powerpoint....
veiw it and tell me your opinion..lili.
All this talk about hair...!!!! Stop it, I'm going crazy with lust.
Blonde, Brunette, bobs, ponytails.. this is pretty wild stuff......it's every guy's dream.
I don't Marjorie, my hair is pretty lust inspiring. Especially since I haven't been able to get it cut in while and it's thrown back in a pony tail. I have guys lined up outside drooling! ;)
There are obvious differences between men's bodies and women's bodies, but it's not at all obvious that this means the standardsd of modesty should be different. Would you have different standards based on other physical differences? Should tall people have to cover more than short people? Should blondes have to cover more than brunettes? These are obvious physical differences, but they don't lead to differences in modesty. The fact that men and women are different is not enough of an argument that they should be treated differently.
I don't buy the argument that hair ITSELF leads to lustful thoughts. Women in most of the world -- even other conservative cultures -- DO show their hair to men, without it leading to all kinds of illicit things. Because men who grow up in these parts of the world are used to seeing women's hair, it doesn't make them think evil thoughts. It's only when a body part is covered in a given culture that it becomes eroticized for people in that culture. There's nothing erotic about hair itself.
As for a chat room, I can see both points. I like being able to read what everyone else has written, but I do think we need some sort of private message board, incase something needs to be said that can't be said in front of the rest of the board.
As for a chat room, I can see both points. I like being able to read what everyone else has written, but I do think we need some sort of private message board, incase something needs to be said that can't be said in front of the rest of the board.
I have absolutely no shame on showing off my body, hair, etc. but would never ever sleep with aother man other than my husband.
Is that why you wouldn´t want your wife to show her beauty in public? because you fear that she will go sleep with someone else????
Than why don't men cover up as well?
And just because a man can see my hair and face doesn't mean I'm going to jump into bed with him! That's not a very high opinion of a womens willpower.
I have my appearance commented on admiringly on almost a daily basis by many different men, I don't have sex with them.
Just because you men can't control your own lusts and jealousies without covering women in black cloth doesn't mean that we women should suffer for that.
We have brains, desires, lusts and jealousies of our own, and we can make our own decisions on how to deal with them, we don't need men to make the decision for us.
You want to tell me that a women body is like man's body Marjorie?
You want to tell me that women's nature is like man's nature?
No sorry, I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that.
You are talking about man's handsomeness infront of other ladies. Well, if the lady that is looking a straight lady then she wouldn't look at figuring out his body eh?
When I say a wife's beauty is for her husbend means in our religion (Jelousy). Why some women become mad when thier husbend starring at another women?? why? Jelousy on him! .. this man is for her not for some other lady! ....it's the same thing here .. showing her body or whatever and making other men looking at her hair and her body wich will lead to other worng things (like wifes sleeping with other men and men sleeping with other women as an example). That's one of the reasons why God ordered us to cover our ladies hair and body exept thier faces and hands.
Thanks for your comment!
Cheers :D
"Women freedom doesn't mean wearing naked tight clothes and shake body just to attract other men, but it means that women is respected and can share men in life."
No, "freedom" means being able to exercise choice. That includes the ability to make bad choices! If you only give women the "freedom" to do things you think they should be doing anyway, that's by definition not freedom.
"Sorry, but I can't imagin my wife -for example- showing her body or her hair to other men becasue her beauty is fer her husbend and family."
Why is it that a woman's beauty is only for her husband, but a husband's handsomeness isn't only for his wife? If you want to argue that people's bodies should only be seen by their spouses, fine, but then it should be true for men as well. You speak as though it's self-evident that the rules should be different for the different genders, but to us that's not obvious at all.
As for what's "normal," in most societies women show their hair to men other than their husbands! I show my hair to everybody all day, and it would never occur to my husband that he was being cheated out of something rightfully his. It's only if you've grown up in a society that expects something to be covered that is seems "normal" to do so.
Having women in positions of authority is always a good sign, BUT that doesn't change the fact that many women live in families that don't allow them what the international community considers basic freedoms. What about women like Hamda Al-Thani who are held prisoners by their family when the family disapproves of their choices? The fact that the head of QU is a woman doesn't do Hamda any good, does it?
I'm not sure what you're implying about Madeleine Albright and Judaism?
mj:
"Well, we all know the story of prophet Lot when God destroyed his people becasus they disobayed him and make same-sex activites :D"
Actually, we don't all know that story. I'm a Christian, and in the Bible it says that Lot's town was destroyed because it "had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy" (Ezekiel 16:49). There's also a story in the Bible where the people in Lot's town try to rape an angel, but rape is hardly the same thing as "same-sex activities," is it? (And anyway, God had already decided to destroy it at that point.)
Many Christians are opposed to homosexuality, because there are a handful of verses that have been interpreted to prohibit it, but that view point is by no means universal.
One of the reasons people were proposing the chat room was to stop having to involve people in these politics/religion kind of chats.
I was saying that I don't think chat rooms are any more effective at not involving people.
I wont chat from my workplace anyways..so it isn't a bad idea to take it at another forum..We are hooked to this site anyway..
Also joining outside this forum means only those who are willing to join are sent messages..
LOL Super, I'd like to watch you trying to make me join the conversation in chat if I don't want to!
I do however agree with Qatari on one substantial issue - it's nice to have a record of our ramblings.
I'm actually with Qatari on this. If I have a chat room I may spend even more time not working.
At least with this method I can go away for a bit and come back.
Plus if people don't want to join the conversation it s easy enough not to. Don't think chat room helps on that front
VeryWell Qatari .. ! :)
mj, chatrooms are fine for casual banter but posting is much better since people who aren't around get to see the conversation and take part.
Plus, it is especially useful for people just browsing the site looking for specific info on Qatar.
Alas, the market forces overwhelm me and I'll get a room soonish...
I'm with YOU QatarCat! We want Chat! We want Chat! We want Chat! (its the revolution) :D
Mother in law doesn't stand a chance :p
And as for a chatroom, I hope Qatari (who has long given up on us, by the way, I guess we just got out of control, lol) would be kind enough to make one for us on this site, where we could see who's online and chat, if we want.
I guess the tourette syndrome doesnt help does it?
Nothing like "do you ******* come here often you ********** ******" to turn a girl off.
LOL Qatarcat. I'd have to agree with you there, my mother is definitly a higher power.
The reason I don't use the term GOD TG is because it comes with associations from various relgions that I probably don't agree with. It's easier to say higher power, something that got this whole crazy ball rolling. I've just had to many things happen in my life to pass it up to coincidence, but I don't believe that any of the religions have got it right.
QC..You mean your mother or mother-in-law??
I have to say that Chat room was your idea QC...
I don't know why Qatari is not concerning the idae to have a chat room Chaps .. it's much easier to talk rather than posting & posting & posting ...
You'd believe in the "higher power" too, if you'd met my mother.
That's the only "higher power" I currently believe in.
Sorry, I believe in QatarCat's orginal idea to start a chatroom, I beleive several of us has reititeratred it several times, as I reititerate that I can't spell.
:)
Well it seems that QC and DG agree with the concept of a higher power..not Super
A little story in a barber shop when the barber was arguing the guy about existence of GOD..When after the haircut..the guy went out and came back and declared..Barbers don't exist..If they did there wont be so many bearded fellas..
The barber replied..I have my shop here..who ever comes will have a cut..
Precisely said the man..GOD is for those who wish to visit his shop..
I agree with QC/DG..But I believe in GOD..
Gaaaaaaasp is was MY idea! MINE MINE MINE MINE! Pluhhhhhhheaaaaaaaaaaaase!
Chatroom, I mean, lol.
Butterfly - now THAT truly cracked me up. Blue devil told you so! :p
I believe I can't spell. And that I have work to do. And that TG's idea to start a chat room is a good one. And that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And that some chicks are into hunchbacks, and that its ok to be a virgin and that it's ok not to be a virgin. And that no one is ever going to agree on this subject because we are all products of our upbringing.
LOL @ Super... Maybe when I die I will see a little blue devil with funny ears saying "told u, told u, told u"
Mmm no, I can't say I believe in life after death. I do believe that I should be a good person in life though.
Dohagirl was more eloquent in expressing what I agree with and believe in ;-)
tg I don't question it at all. I am utterly certain that neither I nor anyone else will have a life after death. The thing I find truly galling is that I can't then say to all the people who spent all that effort "believing"...."I told you so!"
I believe in the exsistence of a higher power, but I believe religion is created by human begings, more specifically men as a form of conservative control and therefore not holy.
I believe in fate and destiny, and that we are all here for a purpose. And I hope there is something after death, but I don't know.
With life and everything QatarCat ...
Some chicks are into that GIASI. It must be your chat
Alright, I think we had enough with this post Chaps! :)
Good luck with what, MJ?
But do either of you believe in spirituality?? Do you question your existance?? Life(?) After death??
Good luck QatarCat :D
I don't believe in religion either, and just as Super7, I disagree that it means I don't believe in ANYTHING.
Nothing wrong with virgins. Im a virgin, but that maybe because im a four foot hunchback with chronic halitosis and a limp.
Yes Sure DohaGirl :)
Oh Ok Super7
I don't believe in religion, but I believe in goodwill, helping others, being kind to people, freedom and education for all.
I am a big hippie :)
I don't mind TG :) because we have Qatari ladies in my department at work and it's all alright :)
Last year in my study at the university a new Presdident came and she was a QAtari Women .. The president eh? So who is controlling now? :)
This is just an example
Or is it a women like Condaliza Rice doing well with politics and zigzags announcements? :D
Or maybe Madlin Albright with a jew lobby politics??? :D
MJ..
Would you mind if a few Qatari Ladies wish to join your meeting at Chillies??
I do not believe in religion mj. There is a difference between that and not believing in anything
Sorry Super7, I didn't know that you don't believe on anything .. sorry :)
MJ, you are going to get me fired, because I'm spending more time arguing on this forum than I am at work :).
MJ, you seem like a very reasonable man, for one second, if you can, I would like you to put yourself in a womens shoes. Especially an Islamic womens shoes. And imagine what it would be like to be that controlled by the men in your life, and ask yourself WHY men should have that control over you.
Life wouldn't stop if women were prohibited to go out as such, MJ.
But we were talking about equality and freedom, not the continuation of life as such.
Come on Chaps!
Well for a start mj I don't believe in the Koran so I don't believe anything is forbidden.
Why should a women's beauty be just for a husband?
What I pointed out mj is that although a small minority of people do become drug addicts and get pregnant "early" most do not.
For me the small "social price" of this is far out weighed by women having the freedom of choice.
Hiya! :)
Well, we all know the story of prophet Lot when God destroyed his people becasus they disobayed him and make same-sex activites :D
Actually Its the women on this forum who are posting more sensible comments than men (me included)...
I really appreciate the quality of posts of dohagirl,qatarcat,Canarybird,Marjorie,Lilipink and Aisha...
Oh man MJ, I'm at work, I don't have time to argue that point.
Let's just say that freedom for a women means freedom to control her life and every aspect of it, from her body, what she chooses to wear or who she chooses to sleep with, to her education and what she chooses to learn and study.
It's having the same freedoms as men. Now in Western society men are more free than men in Islamic society, because men in Islamic society are subject to the restrictions of the religion. Whether they follow those rules or not is an entirely different subject. SO in Western society women want the same freedoms as Western men.
And being human beings we are entitled to those freedoms. That being said, it is a VAST sterotype to assume that all Western women are going out and having sex with every guy they meet, or even if they are, why should it matter? Freedom from that sterotype is now what we have to fight.
Life doesn't die if a girl couldn't join guys or can't go to clubs to have some drink with other men.
My cousin (a gierl) goes out with her friends (girls too) to restaurants and cinemas and shopping .. bla bla bla .. and she is very happy ;)
I sae Qatari girls with thier families and friends in Apple Bee's chatting and laughing and enjoying ;)
BAAAAM! ;)
MAN-HATER!!!
:-D
I'm glad to hear you don't actually hate me. :-D But I wasn't as convinced as Ferrin that you're a secret Christian-hater and American-hater, anyway!
And I pretty much agree that Canada is better than the U.S. You already have so many of the mind-numbingly obvious policies that ought to be in place in the States but aren't, like univeral health care.
As for religious Canadians, I used to be in an online discussion group with a bunch of clergy from the United Church of Canada. They were fabulous people. Such a sensible denomination! It seemed a lot like my denomination would be, if the South didn't have an enormous voting bloc at our general conferences. :-D (I just visited their website, and within two clicks got information on how to have a clergy bless a same-sex union. w00t!)
Well said, MJ :^)
You can't imagine your wife, your sister or your daughter doing things that you yourself are doing without thinking. Bringing an example of Aisha (which I wouldn't have unless you started it), I have one thing to tell you - I am FREE to go and meet you and other Qatarliving members at Chilis, and so are you, but Aisha is not. There starts and ends all her so called freedom.
Well Super7,
Letting women hiding thier faces is not necessary that thier families in forcing them to do so, but also many them choosed to wear it. In the Qur'an God ordered women to wear scarf and cover thier body only thier faces and hands, but he did not mention about covering faces.
Unfortunately women freedeom became body freedom in the western world and many women in our world misunderstood freedom. Women freedom doesn't mean wearing naked tight clothes and shake body just to attract other men, but it means that women is respected and can share men in life. In Qatar women work and participate everywhere. I saw Qatar women working everywhere; in banks, ministries, companies, sociaties .. bla bla bla! Thousands and thousands of Qatari girls studying in different specializations (take Aisha for example) and in different universities. Many Qatari girls are well educated and share men in positions. Her Highness Shiekha Moza, Her Highness the Minister of Education, The president of Qatar University, the manager of Health Center in Ritz-Carlton are good examples of Women holding high postions. Also, we see women participating in ellections and contributing in many fields! I see lots of women shopping alone without men and talking to men in shops and markets! :)
So what freedom are you talking about? To let a women free to sleep with defferent men? Or to let my daughter to go out with boy to make some forbidden activites and comeback and break up with him after a couple of month to move with another boy? Eh? :D
Many girls in the western world fall into drugs, early pregnancy, school failure and many other stuff! Why? becasue they became 18 and they are free??? :)
Sorry, but I can't imagin my wife -for example- showing her body or her hair to other men becasue her beauty is fer her husbend and family. Do not tell me it's normal because a man is man and will always hunt for women attractions.
You do not have to teach muslim girls about having sex aith boys and results becasue the religion educates them that having such actitivities with boys is forbidden because bla bla bla and marrage is the best solution. I have seen lots of Qatari girls who are studying in collages and universities and in the same time they eighter married or engaged.
Comeon Chaps!! :P
Because unfortunatly in many parts of the world women are still viewed as chattel or objects, or in someway lesser to men. And the emphasis on female virginity has been entrenched in humanity, in every culture, since the beginning of time.
And because (and nobody start saying that I hate men, I don't hate men) men are raised, even in Western society, with this idea of the perfect women and wife. Stay at home, raise the children, virtous, pretty. Guys look for their mothers in their potential wife. No guy would ever like to think that their mother wasn't a virgin.
Also, men don't like to share. :)
There are certain members in the forum who are keen to chat...Here is an idea...
Create a Yahoo ID..A new one if you are not keen to get your regular one disturbed by it...and lets chat at Yahoo...
Though I wont be able to chat from office...Evenings are fine....
I have just found a weird handle(name) to start chatting...
Drop me a line at [email protected] and those who are hesitant to send their IDs here.. ..We can decide how we want others to join in......Please while you Email make sure that you mention the Qatarliving handle so that I know whom I am chatting with....
Or Is MSN better??
Your comments are welcome...
Regards...
tg1234 is dead..long live tg...
Spot on, Marjorie. I don't see how consentual sex in general is government's business.
And I don't know why people in this part of the world think that only girls can be virgins, or lose their virginity. What's the big deal with virginity anyways? Nobody bothers whether a man is a virgin or not, why such derogatory discrimination against women?
Nixon was forced to resign when his rating fell to 31 %. I beleive Bush's is at 32%. When do you think Bush will resign. HA HA HA.
I think the vast majority of the US's problems would be solved if more people voted.
I don't hate you Marjorie, or Christians. I do hate the current AMerican government and I wrongly tend to paint the rest of the US with that brush. Also, I unfortunately, seem to only meet GI's from the US, and they are by no means the best example of Liberal American thinking.
When I think of the US, the COnservative Right and Liberalism I always think of it in terms of my own upbringing as a Canadian. Canada is by no means perfect, but in comparison to the US we have always leaned far more to the liberal left, and in the end we have a smaller crime rate, strict gun laws, legalized abortion, gay marriage, almost legalized marijuana, universal health care, and are not involved in Iraq.
Whether it is simply cultural differences or the fact that Canadians are just more liberal, we seem to have a happier more settled society.
Granted, I'm not COnservative or Relgious, I'm about as left wing as you can get, so I can't speak for COnservative Religious Canadians and if they are happy with the way our country "is going to hell in a handbasket" LOL :). I'm happy as long as everyone else has the freedom to be happy and live their lives the best way they see fit, as long as they don't hurt others.
Marjorie,
I am sure that his low rating means that he is not very popular. (Although I can't understand how come he is still in power.)
And I am sure that his low rating means that most people at least in America disapprove of their president. I guess I just wasn't lucky in meeting these people. As I have said, I met both kinds, and most were pro-Bush. Maybe it has to do with Americans living in the Middle East?
And though most Americans believe that the war in Iraq was a mistake, the headlines of today's Gulf Times say that more troops are being sent to Iraq.
Faizan,
"being a human being some restrictions are applicable to all humans within the frame work of a good human society."
I totally agree. In any good human society, there should be laws that ensure that people don't hurt each other.
"when the society liberalism reaches upto such a level that 99.9 percent girls lose their virgincy at the age of 15-17"
About 52% of American girls have had sex by the age of 17. The number is higher for boys; why aren't you worried about that?
"this relationship actually involves lust or unended materialistic desire"
I agree with you that 15-year-old are better off NOT having sex, but I don't see how it's the government's business if they choose to.
Qatarcat,
"Then of course the majority of the Americans I've met are pro-Bush, pro-guns, pro-war in Iraq, pro-everything that gives them the feeling of power and superiority."
Last I checked, Bush's approval rating was hovering around 31%. (He's almost exactly as disapproved-of as Nixon was just before his resignation.) I sure wish I had a nickel for every time in the last six years I've read the headline "Bush approval hits new low."
A majority of Americans now believe that the war in Iraq was a mistake.
Dohagirl,
I always love your posts (even though I'm an American and a Christian and therefore you hate me, LOL) because they're always rational and well-reasoned. But, as much as it pains me to defend the U.S., I don't think you're 100% right here.
As hard as the current administration is pushing abstinence-only education, it's currently only being taught in about a third of schools, according to Planned Parenthood. I was given decent sex ed in high school.
The legal state of affairs regarding gay rights is pretty abysmal, but it's not true that there's NO hate crimes law. The last figures I saw were that 32 states plus DC had hate crimes laws that include sexual orientation. It's not enough, but it's something.
I totally agree that the religious right is out of control, and that the fundamentalist influence in American politics and society is an evil. The American political landscape is bleak enough without exaggerating any. :-/
Great answer! I agree with every single point.
Mostly with this: Americans should sort their own problems instead of trying to "save" the rest of the world. They couldn't even deal with a hurricane!
I've met some really nice people from the USA, and most of them are deeply ashamed of their country and its policies, both international and domestic, imagine that! Then of course the majority of the Americans I've met are pro-Bush, pro-guns, pro-war in Iraq, pro-everything that gives them the feeling of power and superiority. And on top of that you get a leader who is preaching Christian values while doing his best to destroy the values of others.
Spot on again DG.
For every action there is a reaction.
So society makes a choice does it:
Dress all women in black and hide their faces and not let them out to meet men and scare them with fairy tales about the horrible repercussions if they do OR
Do you allow women the freedom to do as they please enjoy all the same freedoms as men educate all fully about sex and empower them to make decisions and as a consequence face the social problems from a small minority who make mistakes?
Well I definitely know what I would choose.
Hey QatarCat!
At least there is a reason why many msulims leave thier fatherlands. Most of the reasons that thier country do not offer them Jobs (and keep hiring people outsand also to get passports and green cards and come back home.
I know a South African family here who always complain about Qatar and things but they do want to go back to thier fatherland (although they always say good things about thier country)? Many westerns and easterns do say the same. Why? Why would a spanish guy who told me that he would like to live in Doha? Well, most of them talked about safety and quiteness.
Make some money? Well, I though your countries pay you more as they are rich eh? Or is it becasue taxes are breaking peoples' back there?
I don't know QatarCat, it all depends ...
Anyway!
Cheers! :D
"when the society liberalism reaches upto such a level that 99.9 percent girls lose their virgincy at the age of 15-17, then this relationship actually involves lust or unended materialistic desire which reflects a society of animals where there is no discrimination between relations."
So what. People have sex, deal with it. Stop denying sex and treating it like its some dirty little thing. (Though how sex and unended materialistic desire are connected I don't know, I've never had sex for money).
I don't see you using the age when most boys lose their virginity. Why is it that only female virginity is prised. It's an outdated sexist belief that women must be virgins upon marriage.
Ferrin, you actually managed to prove what I said in your statement.
"Most people don't seem to realize that when citizens are disarmed then they are left defenselesss should they be attacked by their government leaders."
Listen to yourself!
Americans live in a society of constant fear and paranoia. There is no purpose to a handgun except to shoot people. Charleton Heston himself said that the reason that there are so many shootings in the US and why there are so many guns is because there is so much racial diversity.
Watch CNN, Fox News, the constant fear that you instill in your own populace.
And as for whether or not I like Christians, I beleive I said that I don't like fundamentalists, of any religious sect. I don't understand why its not ok to have an abortion but its ok to send your child off to Iraq to die in a pointless war that was simply started by the greed of your own government. Your government's killing you now I don't see you defending yourselves?
And as for judging Americans on an individual basis, I do, unfortunately I've met very few that I can stand to talk to for more than 2 seconds. Most of them are loud, arrogant and ignorant, due to the poor education and general brainwashing that Americans have to endure. And having visited many African American and Latino communities in the US I don't know how the United States can judge others when they have horrible human rights violations and poverty of their own.
I think the major problems in the United States are caused by the CHristian Right, which if nobody watches the news for all of you arguing that liberalism is destroying the US, is the body in power.
The United States is dealing with the fact that the majority of the United States is part of the Liberal Left, unfortunately those in power are the minority Christian Right, which is choosing to ignore or beat down the changes the United States are going through. Teenagers are having sex, thats a fact, but the Conservative Government refuses to allow sex education in the classroom. They refuse to supply money for AIDS in Africa because they beleive that AIDS is caused by promiscuity and therefore that is something the COnservative Christian Right doesn't want to promote.
Homosexuality is out and proud in the United States, but there are still no set hate crime laws, or even the allowance of rights to homosexual couples.
Children are taught to use guns at young ages, guns which are readily available at WalMart or wherever. So when they get angry at the bullies in school they are more than capable of getting a gun and going and shooting them, the guns are everywhere. IF the guns weren't available they would have a much harder time shooting people now wouldn't they.
The United States touts itself as being the freedom fighter or the world and the shining beacon of freedom and it's at war with itself. IT's instituted Homeland Security laws that are reminiscent of Nazi Germany. I could go on and on, but that fact is , is that Americans are hypocrits. You blame the Islamic world for fundamentalists, when you can't control fundamentalism in your own country.
Why do millions of Muslims and Arabs in particular are fighting tooth and nail to immigrate to USA or Europe, although these places are clearly the pits of sin and vice?
:^)
We come here to experience life abroad, make some money, enjoy cultural diversity. We can do well back home, too.
Alright Chaps, Now I want to ask you something ...
Since you think that middle east still have crimes and crimes against women and bla bla bla :D
Then , why you chaps come work and live here? Why my english neighbours are living next to us since 1985? I mean I can't understand ...
I did not view the video (I'm avoiding viruses--I'm sharing this computer and have to be extra careful, so I didn't open it). So I can't comment on the video (other than saying that IF the people on it were spewing hate and lies, then I disagree with them--but I wouldn't know). However, I do want to comment on what you said:
"And as for shootings in schools! LOL, most of those occur in highly Christian areas of the United States, because these people truly beleive in the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms and teach their children to use guns without teaching them that its wrong to shoot others."
"Don't get me wrong, I hate Americans as much as the next person, they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrits who pick on poorer countries when they can't even stop poverty in their own."
Well, dohagirl, you've made it crystal clear that you hate Christians and Americans. You have the right to hate anyone you want. As for me, I will continue to judge people on a individual basis and try my best to avoid hateful people who judge others and lump them all into one group before they even get to know them.
I've known lots of people who believe in the 2nd Amendment (myself included, although I've never owned a gun), but I've certainly never known anyone who thought it was OK for their kids to shoot others! I challenge you to give me an example of a Christian parent who taught their child to use a gun without teaching them it's wrong to shoot others. Hateful, outlandish statements are a hallmark of fundamentalists. How ironic!
I don't want to start a discussion on gun control, but most people don't seem to realize that when citizens are disarmed, then they are left defenseless should they be attacked by their government leaders (Hitler disarmed the Germans for a reason! One example among many. Most tyrants disarm their citizens!): http://www.xmission.com/~ranthon/hitler-and-guns.htm
I don't expect everyone to agree on politics, religion, culture, gun control, abortion, modesty, morality, global warming or anything else. The world will always have differing viewpoints. If only we could find a way to disagree peacefully and respectfully, without hating those who disagree with us.
I can only dream....
being a human being some restrictions are applicable to all humans within the frame work of a good human society.ur sexual relationships with ur life partner r understandable but when the society liberalism reaches upto such a level that 99.9 percent girls lose their virgincy at the age of 15-17, then this relationship actually involves lust or unended materialistic desire which reflects a society of animals where there is no discrimination between relations.
Faizan,
I agree with you that the West is too materialistic, but I don't know what that has to do with Lili's post. Do you think Westerners believe strongly in individual liberties because we're materialistic?
lili, the post is a real truth to which the west is ignoring all the way just because to have materialistic benefits and desires. these materialistic desires and liberalism have led them astray and they have no way to come back.
::applauds Dohagirl's post::
My experience as a journalist is that crimes are regular in Arabic countries as well. Homosexuality, eve teasing, rapes, adultery - all are existent. I have noticed many of these but there are so many restrictions on press also. Ruling class will stop you from publishing all these. With the Us and other countries things are open, individual rights are of prime importance.
Arabian countries do not understand they are creating a kind of inferno. If they do not open up things will heat up a lot and one day it would be beyond control.
It's better to bring conflict out in open and discuss it threadbare. there is no harm in mixing of boys and girls. What is interesting is many of the ultra rich Sheikhs do marry Americans and Europeans or Lebanese, who never follow the so called conservative traditions of Islam. They will however continue to preach and push the same old conservatism.
This hypoicrisy should come to a stop. dohagirl, I would agree with you that Americans are not so likeable objects all the time but they are definitely less hycoprite than many others from this part of the world.
Ambrish
I agree with you dohagirl to a great extent. Arabian countries have somehow got involved in some kind of dilemma. There is immense competition among the Muslims to prove who are the better Muslims.
Muslims in Turkey are in no way less devout to those who support Osama and others. Certain countries have changed the very concept of humanity by blocking everything. All societies filter the things before accepting them.
I would like to draw some comparisons between India and China on one hand and Arabian countries on the other hand. both India and China were undr colonial powers for so long, much longer than any Arabian countries. But they have differed in their reactions. Both these countries hate the Western Powers but are definitely not xenophobic. They are in pursuit of defeating the Americans and Europeans in their own games. They are thus considered the new movers & shakers in world arena.
On contrary Arabian countries are so reactionary in their approach and have moulded Islam (A religion of peace) to justify their reactions. This is what ailing them. What is the logic behind higher unemployment rates in Arabic countries like Saudi Arabia or Oman and UAE. This is inexcusable.
Ambrish
Here is the link..
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/05/29/10043135.html
Death penalty sought for Qatari accused of rape
Doha: A Qatari national may face death sentence for raping a female relative and abusing another man along with three other suspects, a Qatari newspaper reported yesterday.
The case came one week after a landmark judgment where a Qatari couple got five years in jail for assaulting a maid, who has been lying in a coma for two years now.
"Qataris should not believe they are above the law," sources at the trial told Gulf News quoting the judge as saying at the trial.
Although it was the first sentence of its kind in the country, members of the Indonesian Women's Association attending the trial complained that the sentence was too mild.
Deterrent
In the former case brought to the Criminal Court on Wednesday, the public prosecutor asked for the "maximum possible sentence" against four rapists, three Qataris and an Egyptian, "to serve as a lesson" for those who plan to commit such crimes, the English-language Gulf Times said.
The four men are accused of raping a 22-year-old Qatari woman, a relative of one of the convicts, and abusing another man on November 26, 2005. The Criminal Court is due to issue its verdict on June 6.
"We ask for maximum possible punishment to serve as a lesson to those who dare perpetrate such an obscene crime," the prosecutor was reported as saying by court reporters at the trial.
Under Article 283, Section 11 of the Criminal Code, sexual abuse of a man carries a maximum penalty of 15 years' jail.
However the Gulf Times reported a legal source as saying that one of the Qatari convicts, who is also a relative of the victim, could be sentenced to death under Article 279, Section 11 of the 2004 Criminal Code.
According to the charges filed by the prosecution, the two victims were forcibly pulled out of a car in a public place on November 25 last year and abused. A forensic expert told the judges on Wednesday that semen samples found on the clothes of the victim matched those of the accused. However, he said there were traces of semen of a fifth person.
This is not the first case at the Criminal Court, where prosecutors ask for more stringent punishments against convicts, including Qatari nationals to set 'model sentences' that would discourage crimes
"What about Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Tunisia, morocoo ??" - will you kindly take Dohagirl's answer, or do you want me to elaborate? Up to you!
:^)
Ok
As I said in my very long post before, just because these crimes aren't advertized doesn't mean they aren't happening. Many crimes here and in the rest of Asia and the Gulf, especaially crimes against women, don't make it out into the public. In the West we publizise it to sell papers or to cause outrage so society will change.
What about Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Tunisia, morocoo ?? :D
Do I see any crimes in the Middle East? Right, left and centre.
You are in the middle east QatarCat .. do u see any crimes? :)
I will not talk about America, but I guess it will be interesting to note that the whopping portion of the crimes in Europe is committed by immigrants... who come from.. guess where? No, not USA. Yes, Africa, Asia and Middle East.
Its not all religion i agree, but religion has a part. Here in qatar, for example, religion still forms the basis for laws. Since this is the case, they will change very little as time goes by. For example, capital punishment is a religious requirement, it cannot change unless the judicial system becomes secular. Once that happens it is upto prevailing attitudes to define the laws and (using the UK as an example) they tend to become more and more "liberal" with time.
Hiya!
You remind me of the story of that black boy who was killed by another teenager with an ax in britain 7 months ago. I was in Chester watching the news of this issue everyday at that time .. the murderer said that he killed him because of his colour. It was horrible mate ...
I agree GIASI, I feel much safer here than in the US. I feel safer anywhere in the world than the US, but I do not think it has anything to do with the prescense or lack of religion. There is something wrong with the US that goes way past religion. No other Western nation faces half of their problems. Trying to point a single thing wrong with the US is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Though it is fact that gulf countries do tend to be secretive about their crime figures, i seriously doubt that they are as high (relatively) than the US.I dont have any figures (maybe someone else will prove me wrong) but the reality still remains that I FEEL safer here. We might sometimes complain about the severe nature of the judicial system or law enforcement, but we welcome the relative security it brings. I know, for example, in the UK, schools have changed (for the worse) and crimes seem to be more frequent and more severe (or maybe im just getting old). I feel its down to more liberal treatment and Political Correctness (be it students in schools or criminals).
May God bless and forgive all of us DohaGirl ...
Sorry, one more point, I Know I am talking to much. :)
But I loved in the thing how it said nobody said anything when people started creating child porn! What culture allows child porn! Not any Western one I know.
Unfortunately MJ, since most cultures other than Islamic ones allow boys and girls to mix I can't blame teenage sexual activity on the mixing of boys and girls. And frankly I don't believe there is any problem with boys and girls mixing or with having sexual relations before marriage, as long as it's done safely.
The Vatican said that condoms are a lesser sin than contracting AIDS. And AIDS levels in the US, Europe and Canada are no where near AIDS levels in Africa, India or China and probably actually come closer to AIDS levels in the Middle East which simply aren't publicised. Africa, India and China are far less liberal about sexual freedom than the US. Ignoring something, or simply not allowing girls and boys to intermingle doesn't stop AIDS from happening. How many Arab men have multiple sex partners?
Shootings in schools happen in US culture, there are very very few incidents in any other Western culture. I think the answer is more related to lax gun laws and overpopulation than violent movies or video games. There aren't very many Qatari boys who haven't watched every American action movie ever made. And if I had one more boy use the term "nigger" just because 50 cent used it I was going to smack one of them. Also Arab boys prefer to use their cars to kill others instead of guns. And I believe if you read the Gulf TImes there's a rape/assault/murder case in court now involving three Qatari boys and one Egyptian. Violent crimes happen in all socieites. The difference is the US really loves to publisize theres.
Why do you only hear about sexual relations between teachers and students or abortions in the Western world? Because they aren't discussed here, but don't confuse that with it not happening. For a project that I'm working on now it was revealed the 50% of women in the Middle East, India, Pakistan and South East Aisia who do not attend schools (and the number is high) do so because of sexual harrasment from a teacher.
It is not the schools place to strengthn anyones beleif. As you said, here is 99% Muslim, but in Canada and the US, people come from a variety of backgrounds and beliefs, HIndi, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Morman, Jeovah's Witness, etc. Religious teaching is best left at home and removed from the schools. THat is to say nothing would prevent you from leaving the classroom and praying when you need to, we just don't try to force religion on anyone. You cannot blame schools for childrens values or lack there of, it is parents who instill values in their children.
As for sex movies and violent movies, a lot actually come from Japan, China and Europe. The American sex industry has been pretty defunct since the 80's. And nobody is asking you to show American movies at your movie theaters, if you don't want to watch them, don't go.
Don't get me wrong, I hate Americans as much as the next person, they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrits who pick on poorer countries when they can't even stop poverty in their own. But I believe the major problem in the country isn't the lack of religious/conservative influence, but to much of it. Religion doesn't belong in the government anymore than it does in the schools.
Chaps! I think we had enough with this subject .. lets just kiss it goodbye :)
My point exactly.
And I liked the "where sex movies are made" comment from MJ.
Just so you know, the best ones are made in Europe, the American ones are not that good.
And well, you don't HAVE to watch them, right? ;-)
It's like saying that since sugar leads to obesity (i.e. just like sex movies lead to sex crimes) - then lets ban sugar (would do good to many in the Middle East, by the way), or better still, let's blame sugar producing nations. Blah
in fact it could be said that it was perpetrated from individuals who came from cultures who believed and 'followed' these values that the writer of the powerpoint presentation wants obviously so desperately 'reintroduced' in the US.
Well, yes. This has nothing to do with such issue.
Yes, but somehow Sept 11 attacks weren't perpetrated by porn infused, condom carrying, unspanked American children.
Sex education do exist in a different approach in Highscool in Biology here in arabic schools. Then comes the parents job to teach thier youths about it inlcuidng the teachings and fundementals of the relgion on this issue.
Well, mixing schools mostly leads to sexual relations bwteen a boy and a girl isn't it DohaGril? I don't know what did vatican said about condoms but I know that Chritanity forbids such activity. Why do you think that our cultures aren't suffering Aids as much as the western world?
Also, why do you think schools murdering occures mostly in the states and europe? Does these movies affects young people? If so, then why school murdering and gun shootings doesn't exist in our culture?
Why do we hear alot of sexual relationship ctrimes between teachers and students in the western world while it's almost dosn't exist here? And why do we hear lots of abortions and its terms in the western world?
Don't worry about doing prayer, as from my side I used to leave my class sometimes just to do my prayer and come back within 10 minutes which many students do.
We do teach religion of Islam in our schools becasue 99% of the students are muslims. Yes, maybe some of them aren't really religious, but what's wrong when schools try to strong thier faith? While in the western world many schools do not teach religions becasue there are different believes and unbelievers.
You said that people blame the Americans? Now you tell me where does most of sex movies are made? Where are most of violence and action movies are made? Globalization is actually Americanization.
Sorry, I talked too much ...
With Regards!
The culture and religion are obviously (to me) American Christian Fundamentalists, who like to blame everything wrong with the United States on Liberal views and lifestyles and not their own Republican, Conservative, money driven greed and misguided value system.
In my opinion these guys have interpreted the Bible as well as Osama Bin Laden has interpreted the Koran, they like to blame all of America's problems, and even some things that aren't problems (like condoms in schools) on the more liberal American set, who aren't in power and are having a very difficult time getting any of their agenda through the government.
I personally find the Abortion bit funny since most of the United States doesn't allow abortion anyway. (whether you agree with or not, I personally am pro-choice, but I hope this doesn't turn into an abortion issue cause that's a real dangerous can of worms).
In Canada we teach religion in history class, after we teach Creation we teach Evolution (at least I was) that way children are given both sides of the story. There is no prayer in school because prayer in school is segregational, I'm sure Lili, Aisha or MJ would hate having to do the Lords Prayer before class.
As for condoms, even the Vatican has said they are acceptable now. I think its far wiser to teach safe sex in schools than ignoring that teenagers may have sex. An example from when I was teaching here in Doha was 16 year old girls thinking that you can only get pregnant if you are married. In this day and age, regardless of your reilgion and personal values, that kind of thinking is dangerous. Sex education is not just about teaching kids to use protection, it's about health issues and options, so if kids are preassured into having sex outside marriage, they at least won't end up in trouble.
And as for shootings in schools! LOL, most of those occur in highly Christian areas of the United States, because these people truly beleive in the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms and teach their children to use guns without teaching them that its wrong to shoot others.
September 11 was brought about by globalization and the fact that traditional sects can't handle the influence of the US (whether rightly or wrongly) and the inability of the United States to keep it's nose out of the sands of someone elses desert and someone elses culture.
Christian fundamentalists are like fundamentalists everywhere, they misinterpret the Bible to suit their own beleifs, whether its banning the teaching of evolution in schools or shooting doctors who preform abortions, or hanging black people from trees.
Hi again :)
I'm afraid it depends on the religion and the culture ButterFly. It's impassobile to generalize such things ....
For example, using condoms for boys and girls is like motovating them to make forbidden & illigal relationship and activities in some religions and societies.
What does all this have to do with Sept 11?
Religion should not be taught in schools.
Condoms prevent diseases, so is perfectly ok to give it to young boys and girls.
Abortion is murder and it should never be allowed.
Music, films etc... Freedoom of expression. If you don´t like it, you don´t have to watch it.
Educate your children. Discipline YES. Abuse NO.
I couldn´t care less about someones private life as long as he does his job. Take Bill Clinton, a truly good president, why should I care what he does with who in his privacy?
Jeez, where did they get their information from, the Jerry Springer Show! There's more holes in that then a seive.
God Bless American Christian Fundmentalism and their distortion of the truth!
Unfortunatly I did open that at work and the way it suddenly jumped up in red took me (and my boss who was standing behind me!) by surprise. oops. You should put a warning on that Lili :)
Oh well, it's terrible.
Thank God that most of these things aren't happening in our world. But unfiortunately its moving towards us. TV music channels are examples of poisons that spoils our lives & spirits.
Beware, beware and beware ....
May God bless us all ...
Cheers!