As long as we form opinions through broad experience, they can't be racist.
If, against all odds they are, then there must lie some truth in racism.
True or not?
corcaoich, so, if a person has a particular experience with another person, and judges this person , and this person alone ,due to this experience, the judged person can under no circumstances claim racism as the reason for that particular judgment?
We all form a series of opinions of what we expect from life over our childhood, adolescence and early adulthood. This is normal and easily understood. The child who said, "why should I be afraid Of this increbibly beautiful poisonous snake" died early and did not pass on it's genes to a new generation. Thus after millions of years, sorry billions!, we have learned to trust the known, and not trust the unknown!
WE CHANGE OUR RECEIVED OPINIONS WHEN WE MOVE TO SOMEWHERE WE ARE THE STRANGER!
Suddenly we find that we are judged by people on the basis of our colour. race. religion, sex etc. and if we are capable of rational thought realise that I am being judged by people who have no idea at all about me, only judging me by their stereotypical viw of my group. When this happens you suddenly decide that the only valid choice of action for me is to judge others by their actions, not by their group! Sure you can have all the preducice in the world. regard other nationalities, regions, next door neighbours etc., as dirty, smelly. dishonest etc., but what you must actually do is judge people by their deeds and performance only. when people do this we wont get politicians like george bush or ahmedinijad anymore! Let us hope!
I agree that our opinions are formed through experiences. However, opinions to do with race and prejudices can be formed through media, personal interactions and views of family / friends.
My point was that just because we form opinions / viewpoints through experiences. It does not neccessarily mean they are correct.
"Racism is: Discriminating between ethnicities (black and white or as in the case of Doha, not allowing single Asians into malls during certain times but allowing western nationalities in)"
Is it true that Single asian male is not allowed into malls during certain times? I have never been rejected at the mall before and will try to avoid the "certain times" if someone could shed more light on this.
but only cause the PC crowd haven't caught on to cultural and religious prejudice yet to whinge about constantly like they do racism. In only a matter of time though :)
nomerci when one starts getting a sense of superiority or is handed down some sort of advantage just because of the colour of their skin or conversely if someone is discriminated against or made to feel inferior due to the colour of their skin.
That is just my simple definition, I just checked UN's definition and it is more complex and brings in everything into it. Race, ethnicity and geography and history and Biology and what not. Too complex to make sense of. Everyone is a racist as per that.
Are we now saying that It is not OK to be racist, but acceptable to be prejudiced? To me, there is a very fine line between the two and neither should be acceptable..
SimpleLiving if you face it, don't accept it and don't live with it. If throughout history everyone had accepted racism and lived with it your life would have been a living hell now.
Xena/ex.ex.expat true, sometimes people take cultural differences as racism.
cultural differences rather than specifically the colour of one's skin (or their race). For example, I cannot be happy with the Indian attitude mentioned above (relating to caste and tradition), but that isn't about the colour of their skin, but is about their attitudes reflecting a part of their culture. And yet, I know it is not legitimate to assume that EVERY Indian thinks that way, as has been proven by several that I know well.
Don't get upset, my Indian friends. Just used the illustration many might understand but could apply it to the French :)
Haha I get your point about prejudices and racism but what we learn through our experiences in life is different from prejudice. I am talking about those experiences being used to form an opinion.
We can dress them up as prejudices through personal experience, but at the end of the day, we are being racist aren't we ?
I will give you an example which you may be able to relate to.
I used to work for an army Colonel who despised Mexicans. He said that "in his experience" they were lazy and not to be trusted - even though one of the sergeants was a Mexican.
Now is that prejudice or racism ?? To be honest, to me they are pretty much the same..
and stereotypes exist for a reason -- there is some truth in them whether we like to admit it or not. I long for the days when we were not so PC as to scream "RACISM" at every perceived wrong and expect the government to address it. I think individuals to some extent have the right to be racist, but I think government policies must avoid it all costs.
Xena Indian parents are a bit stuck up in that respect. Caste and religion are very important in deciding a marriage. Colour would have favoured you though, everyone wants a fair skinned bride for their son, you are one step ahead, you are actually white :)
Brit, so we "blame" or disguise racism with experience.
Hmm, what if a person has a lot if experiences of the same kind? Would that not warrant forming an opinion?
and if not, how ARE we to form an opinion generally/ is it not through experience? and if it is, why can't we apply the same principle when it comes to forming an opinion about people, traits and nationalities ?
see, for example. The Filipinos say they are generally a nice and friendly race. Everybody would agree with that.
Then, somebody says Filipinas are husband stealers. Now all hell will break lose.
My fish tank is full of racists. I see the two orange fish stick together. The guppies stick to thir own types, and the other colored fishes hang out with their own types.
I also see some lesbian activities in my aquarium! There is a very dirty one, I won't name any...I see it licking it's partners ass and whatever comes out of it!
Lafanga, now, why did the girl do that? Was it experience telling her that her life may be better with the guy she chose? Or is she simply not attracted to dark skin?
What is it that made her do it ? And what are her actions based on?
(I know you posted a hypothetical case, but, this could actually have happened to somebody)
Racism is: Discriminating between ethnicities (black and white or as in the case of Doha, not allowing single Asians into malls during certain times but allowing western nationalities in)
Racism in NOT: Disagreeing over who drives better than someone else, or not wanting to live with anyone other than your own nationality.
These are more generisations and cultural issues than racism.
I could put dozens of other examples here, but these are the jist of it...
False because no matter how broad our opinions they are only a representative of a much wider population. Moreover, races evolve continously and hence the need to keep recalibrating our opinions, which is easier said than done. That said, opinions and generalizations do bring some order to the chaos around...or at least thats our perception as human mind likes to work along the lines of association and classification.
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I know Draccy.
nomerci...i remember 1 day when QLSG was 99,9% QLIG! :(
corcaoich, so, if a person has a particular experience with another person, and judges this person , and this person alone ,due to this experience, the judged person can under no circumstances claim racism as the reason for that particular judgment?
We are all Racists!
We all form a series of opinions of what we expect from life over our childhood, adolescence and early adulthood. This is normal and easily understood. The child who said, "why should I be afraid Of this increbibly beautiful poisonous snake" died early and did not pass on it's genes to a new generation. Thus after millions of years, sorry billions!, we have learned to trust the known, and not trust the unknown!
WE CHANGE OUR RECEIVED OPINIONS WHEN WE MOVE TO SOMEWHERE WE ARE THE STRANGER!
Suddenly we find that we are judged by people on the basis of our colour. race. religion, sex etc. and if we are capable of rational thought realise that I am being judged by people who have no idea at all about me, only judging me by their stereotypical viw of my group. When this happens you suddenly decide that the only valid choice of action for me is to judge others by their actions, not by their group! Sure you can have all the preducice in the world. regard other nationalities, regions, next door neighbours etc., as dirty, smelly. dishonest etc., but what you must actually do is judge people by their deeds and performance only. when people do this we wont get politicians like george bush or ahmedinijad anymore! Let us hope!
I agree that our opinions are formed through experiences. However, opinions to do with race and prejudices can be formed through media, personal interactions and views of family / friends.
My point was that just because we form opinions / viewpoints through experiences. It does not neccessarily mean they are correct.
"Racism is: Discriminating between ethnicities (black and white or as in the case of Doha, not allowing single Asians into malls during certain times but allowing western nationalities in)"
Is it true that Single asian male is not allowed into malls during certain times? I have never been rejected at the mall before and will try to avoid the "certain times" if someone could shed more light on this.
but only cause the PC crowd haven't caught on to cultural and religious prejudice yet to whinge about constantly like they do racism. In only a matter of time though :)
Brit, again I ask. Where do prejudice and racism start and experience as a tool to form opinions is acceptable?
nomerci when one starts getting a sense of superiority or is handed down some sort of advantage just because of the colour of their skin or conversely if someone is discriminated against or made to feel inferior due to the colour of their skin.
That is just my simple definition, I just checked UN's definition and it is more complex and brings in everything into it. Race, ethnicity and geography and history and Biology and what not. Too complex to make sense of. Everyone is a racist as per that.
Are we now saying that It is not OK to be racist, but acceptable to be prejudiced? To me, there is a very fine line between the two and neither should be acceptable..
So, what actually IS racism?
If it is ok to form opinions due to cultural and religious differences, then only forming opinions due to skin colour can be deemed racist, right?
SimpleLiving if you face it, don't accept it and don't live with it. If throughout history everyone had accepted racism and lived with it your life would have been a living hell now.
Xena/ex.ex.expat true, sometimes people take cultural differences as racism.
anywhere we go, there's racism. we just have to accept it and live with it.
like I said, it had nothing to do with me being white - culture (which include religion and caste) is what made their decision:-)
lol Lafanga, not racism, but tragic.
lol Dracula, no need examples.
cultural differences rather than specifically the colour of one's skin (or their race). For example, I cannot be happy with the Indian attitude mentioned above (relating to caste and tradition), but that isn't about the colour of their skin, but is about their attitudes reflecting a part of their culture. And yet, I know it is not legitimate to assume that EVERY Indian thinks that way, as has been proven by several that I know well.
Don't get upset, my Indian friends. Just used the illustration many might understand but could apply it to the French :)
Well Mexicans are lazy ;)
Haha I get your point about prejudices and racism but what we learn through our experiences in life is different from prejudice. I am talking about those experiences being used to form an opinion.
Sorry.. missed your post. :O(
Please see my answer to gkrame ...
We can dress them up as prejudices through personal experience, but at the end of the day, we are being racist aren't we ?
I will give you an example which you may be able to relate to.
I used to work for an army Colonel who despised Mexicans. He said that "in his experience" they were lazy and not to be trusted - even though one of the sergeants was a Mexican.
Now is that prejudice or racism ?? To be honest, to me they are pretty much the same..
and stereotypes exist for a reason -- there is some truth in them whether we like to admit it or not. I long for the days when we were not so PC as to scream "RACISM" at every perceived wrong and expect the government to address it. I think individuals to some extent have the right to be racist, but I think government policies must avoid it all costs.
Drac, my fish tank isn't for sale. Besides it's in India.
I wouldn't risk bringing it to qatar coz' gay and lesbian activities are a taboo here!
Xena Indian parents are a bit stuck up in that respect. Caste and religion are very important in deciding a marriage. Colour would have favoured you though, everyone wants a fair skinned bride for their son, you are one step ahead, you are actually white :)
I have lived through this experience... was engaged to an Indian guy and his parents wouldn't let us marry because I wasn't Indian...
I chose to see it as a cultural thing, not because they didn't like white people:-)
Making generalizations based on personal experience is not racism.
yes!
Indeed, Filipinas are husband stealers!
Do you want examples?
Brit, so we "blame" or disguise racism with experience.
Hmm, what if a person has a lot if experiences of the same kind? Would that not warrant forming an opinion?
and if not, how ARE we to form an opinion generally/ is it not through experience? and if it is, why can't we apply the same principle when it comes to forming an opinion about people, traits and nationalities ?
see, for example. The Filipinos say they are generally a nice and friendly race. Everybody would agree with that.
Then, somebody says Filipinas are husband stealers. Now all hell will break lose.
so, here we are.....
LOL you got me there, it is a hypothetical case :)
Hard to answer the other questions you asked since it is hypothetical, maybe a woman can answer those better. What will she do in such a situation.
I really want to buy your bloody racist fish tank!
i discriminate against muppets, but alas, without them i wouldn't log onto QL.
My fish tank is full of racists. I see the two orange fish stick together. The guppies stick to thir own types, and the other colored fishes hang out with their own types.
I also see some lesbian activities in my aquarium! There is a very dirty one, I won't name any...I see it licking it's partners ass and whatever comes out of it!
Aa haa...seems my post happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time...on a topic of racism with hitler next to it...;)
Lafanga, now, why did the girl do that? Was it experience telling her that her life may be better with the guy she chose? Or is she simply not attracted to dark skin?
What is it that made her do it ? And what are her actions based on?
(I know you posted a hypothetical case, but, this could actually have happened to somebody)
no way, shapil..
just a "print screen" while reading your post!
Racism is: the girl said No to me when I proposed her telling me she wants to concentrate on her career and said yes to a white guy a few days later.
Ok so it's not racism but I am upset about the whole deal and need something to blame the rejection on :-P
Dracula..are you equating me to the 'Great' Hitler? I am not his fan though :)
True - Racism exists.
In most cases though we tend to cover ourselves and justify our prejudices by blaming it on experience, occurance or happenings.
I understand the context of Racism:
Racism is: Discriminating between ethnicities (black and white or as in the case of Doha, not allowing single Asians into malls during certain times but allowing western nationalities in)
Racism in NOT: Disagreeing over who drives better than someone else, or not wanting to live with anyone other than your own nationality.
These are more generisations and cultural issues than racism.
I could put dozens of other examples here, but these are the jist of it...
Anyone care to add?
it's all in the mind of those who are mind-set to think that way!
NO COMMENTS!!
lol mods, I knew it :)
False because no matter how broad our opinions they are only a representative of a much wider population. Moreover, races evolve continously and hence the need to keep recalibrating our opinions, which is easier said than done. That said, opinions and generalizations do bring some order to the chaos around...or at least thats our perception as human mind likes to work along the lines of association and classification.
Very tempting subject for me but I think mods will appreciate it if I hold my thoughts on this subject ;)
[Mod's note: True!]
a 'pain' wont hurt that much if one feels it for long...people get used to it.
this is what has happened to the world in case of racism..
its such a complicated subject nomercy...and the word is too abused
this time i ll pass...let the forum heatup...i ll give u self defined answer...
I won't comment specifically on racism but every stereotype has a degree of truth in it, that's where it originates from.