qatarization

I remember of a similar situation I was in for 5 & half years where I was also under this pressure of helping my incompetent Qatari friend & btw it was not only one but 3/4 more too as the friend herself introduced other ladies to me in case they need any help & in the end it didnt turn out as help but I used to end up in doing the whole thing & staying late. I tried to make them understand & learn that all step by step but being in the bank, although I was their officer, I still had to check each of their work which was supposed to come to me only for signing, line by line in order to make sure that nothing is wrong in the transaction. Although I loved my job very much but because of these incompetent behaviours I used to be sick all the time but still was punctual & efficient. For Qatarisun, I have only a piece of advice like other friends here that you need to sit with her alone & before saying something ask her few questions to know what exactly she thinks about you. Like you can ask her if she found you unloyal in this friendship, if ever you refused to help her etc etc & in the end you can say that after hearing all your yes'es, I can confidently talk to you that whatever I'll say now will be for your betterment & not only yours but mine too & this company. Then you may tell her that you have thought a lot about this & you dont want your friend to be handicapped & depenedent on you all the times because you see her future so bright, so you are going to your senior to suggest him / her that we need to arrange courses for our Qatari colleague in order to help them achieve all the positive things in the future + to enhance their skills & tell her that you are not going to open up your secret instead it would stay with you forever but you want to see her shining bright like star in the moon. I am sure if you talk her with love, she'll understand all, try to be friendly but lil serious when you talk about this.

I would just like to add to this post, that although I suffered a lot about my Qatari colleagues' incompetency but in the end when I resigned from my job those 5/6 bunch of girls were the only brave ones who openely talked to the management about me & kept the condition of their resigning at the same time. Those ladies were the only ones who were crying for me at my time for departure, & I was surprised & overwhelmed by this affectionate response that I still hold that wonderful memory with me all the time. It might not be something to believe but being a Pakistani, when Qataris cry for you n feel the pain for you, is something where you understand how close you were to them & how respected you were among them. By the grace of God, all of those are still in contact with me in one way or the other but sometimes when we are so much in negativity, we cannot see the real, lovely faces of these ppl. I am sure Qatarisun, whenever you leave that place, the shedding of real tears would only be by her. I hope you let us know what happened when you speak to this lady. Good luck & God bless you.

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CONFUSE ............ if you cannot convince!

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A person who does no mistakes, does nothing lol

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QS habibi why is this discussion still going on? people have many views and they have given the pro's and con's (if you can see any pros lol) to this situation. In the end its upto you, if you want to take on the extra headache for this good for nothing person. IF u can help someone to learn their job without creating a burden to you, then yes go ahead, u will be blessed. But if you cant then just dont. Sometimes people need to learn that you cant just get by life depending on others, and i dont care if your a Qatari or whatever, if you think you guys are rich then just sit at home and let your govt feed u if they can :)

Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)

_[]~SMoKE~[]_

People like you will definitly succeed in Life: as I said earlier nothing is impossible and as comments are given on general observation; it is general scenario in GCC.

I agree with Bleu and disagree with edifis; the opportunity and reality need to be shown to Qataris.

There are several institutions and organisation like MNC banks's and Qatar foundation doing great job to train and make locals competent to face the current challenges

Sometimes I can help laughing about it.

What is Qatarisation?

1-To earn a degree in college for free.

2- To place a job for free.

3- To drive in Doha with out using seat belts or children's seat belt restrainer seats.

Could someone explain to me, Why is so important the relationship of items 2 and 3 and the Job?

Westerners will do a mental count of Hadji's inside any aircraft, at any airport, before take off...

Peter Russel

Qatarisun, you already told her you could keep a secret, leading her to ask you to help her, so before you start to tell the world, you should speak to her again.

As you are her senior (you say you are an office manager, she is an administrator), there is no need to be her 'victim': she cannot force you to do anything: she is inexperienced so has come up with this (inappropriate) solution to her problem. It doesnt mean you have to go along with her.

I have never suggested that you do her work for her, only that you help, coach and advise so she gains confidence and competence.

If you are overloaded with work, don't have a minute, aren't paid enough etc etc, these are things you should speak to your boss about.

You called the thread 'Qatarization' which is why the discussion turned to the rights and wrongs of the overall process and moved away from the situation of this individual.

But, in short, if you dont agree to do her work for her, and find another way to help her, there is no guilty secret to keep. She may need to learn MS Excel, but from your posts it seems that you, in turn, have training needs, in basic leadership skills and assertiveness.

Yes, QS. See the difference.

Did you say "And by the way we ARE good friends."?

- I'd thought that you'd then ask her directly one on one.

However, I see your wisdom in posting this in the open so that other people's independent PoVs can be taken into account and not just yours, in case she thinks you're not being fair to her, are simply jealous of her and trying to drag her down, which you are clearly not.

Most of us agree that people should be taught to fish and not just be given everything on a silver platter. This is therefore constructive and not destructive criticism and I hope she takes it the right way and adapts and changes for the better. It only benefits her in the long run. A right attitude will get her far - very far since she's a Qatari.

/And thank you for your patience is responding to clarify things for us.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

humzafar, today you cannot survive in the business world if you don’t know how to open MS Word and how to save a document. You cannot send an e-mail. My suggestion is to go and to take a course. What's wrong with taking a course?? It is FREE from Microsoft. Also, she didn’t ask me to teach her how to prepare and to send the e-mail. She asked me to WRITE THE E-MAIL for her, and to send it to her so that she only could forward it! See the difference?

Rav05, if you read my posts, you could see,I do not refuse to help her! As a matter of fact that’s what I have been doing all the time: helping her and doing the job for her anyway. I didn’t mind! What I mind is when one walks in to your office and makes it as a rule, that from now on you will do all his/her job, and IN SECRET. See the difference? Now. Neither I am her manager, nor she mine. And by the way we ARE good friends. But again, even with my best friend, I find it WRONG. You want to learn? No problem. I can help you. And again, for the 10th time, that’s what I have been doing! But you cannot take it for granted and to go further with putting ALL your job on my shoulders, IN SECRET. Understood?

I am always the one who admires this Qatari policy of Qatarization! I find it very smart. But it must be done in a right way! Staff must be trained in the educational institution first, as whole world does! Or why the Company wouldn't hire the trainer for such cases? Some people don’t like to go to school. Fine! Hire them, and hire a coach for them. Rav05,tell me also WHEN I have to TRAIN her from the scratch, if I am busy from the very first second at the office, and I often stay for extra hours? AGAIN. You have to agree that there is a difference between help (prompts) and full training. Help/prompts take few minutes a day, and nothing wrong with that! I am doing MUCH MORE THAN THAT NOW!!! Full training takes few month of full-time study. Who can provide this study at the work place but INSTRUCTOR? I cannot do it during my work hours. After work hours you can find only ME at the office… and may be another couple of guys. I am WILLING to teach now, but whom to teach? Everybody flew away 1 second before the work day is over... got it?

But the main idea is.. the one who WANTS to LEARN, is seeking help and training. The one who don’t want to learn is seeking somebody who would do a job for him/her. SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

By the way, my initial question was NOT "would you help her/teach her?" My question was : WOULD YOU KEEP IT IN SECRET? So don't twist things guys. i don't ask would you help her or not. I DO help her and i DO a job for her, and we ARE friends. But for her sake, as my friend, or even my sister or even my Mother..., it is better for her to start LEARNING rather than seeking someone who could do all her job (IN SECRET!). Correct me if i am wrong!

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“You become responsible forever for what you have tamed”. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

That's what the Second Law of thermodynamics says, indeed. But, when the universe reaches that state it will be 'dead'.

Indeed, they did but don't you agree that things have a way of going back to equilibrium, one way or another?

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

That's great, eagle. But the musketeers shared their profit and loss equally!

Dealing with incompetent staff - yes, we ALL deal with it. And every moron has to start somewhere, including me. A team is made up of people with different strengths and weaknesses. Together, it rises up above the challenges each individual faces. No one person is to be blamed and no one person is to take the credit in anything. All for one and one for all .. like musketeers.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

Atleast she was upfront about it. We go thru this everyday where we are compared to incompetent staff even though we are amny times more qualified and work longer hours but dont get rewarded and recognised for it. It is just not qatari staff but many other nationalities. Meritocracy has not taken hold in Qatar yet. Life is never fair, you only have to make the best of it.

Agree in part with Edifis' comment esp -

"But after 50 years many people who once belonged to these underprivileged section have already come to the mainstream society, and some have grown to be affluent. But their children still use the quota system instead of merit to get a job. The result is degeneration of the standard of government workforce."

Malaysia - protectionist policies - originally devised to progress a certain backward race at that material time. However, now, that race is no longer backward. {NB: To the relevant people, read my statement carefully and don't get your underwear in a twist.]

Bottom line - Qatarization is a good idea AT THIS STAGE of the country's development. Implementing it takes a lot more thought.

"A deserving Qatari does not need any Qatarization program to get a job. He can get a job on the basis of merit. The Qatarization program means giving incompetent people important offices only for the sake of increasing the number of Qatari workforce."

- The majority are not there yet. How can Qataris be competent if they don't start somewhere? The important thing is to ensure that their attitude is right - proactive and always willing to learn new things and improve. Kindness and compassion to others. I believe it can be done - because they will generally listen to their elders - the culture and religion is such that ensure this kind of respect for their elders.

/With respect to kindness and compassion to certain quarters - they are actually but those certain quarters take advantage. Many a times, really cannot give too much "face". Really, in my countless daily experiences as well, where certain quarters perceive that they have power than me as an Asian woman, they WILL try to bully me. I just never post the details in public here although I could. Got all the number plates and such.

/For the record, Qataris - men and women have never been rude to me anywhere here. It's the others - even the women. They look through me, queue jump etc. Or maybe I should say that they try to...

Edifis - "You may see that they may outsource their job to call centers in India and China. So a HR rep in Qatar will have a remote desktop somewhere in India or Phillipines making a spread sheet or drafting a letter and sending it via mail."

The Westerners are doing this already. No difference. The only issue if monitoring.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

RED_POPE said "The question is: Will they accept training and guidance without repercussions towards the trainer, because of their national status?

Sometimes is not worth training others, reasons of fear, displacement or termination by them, once they feel they could do your job. It is very common in Qatar. "

- Not worth training others? Only out of fear, lack of self confidence and a desire to control or milk the company (or host country) for what it's worth. All that boils down to selfishness and individualism. Note: Qatar and Asia generally are collective societies (relationship based), not adhering to Western culture (in respect of its individualistic characteristics).

Basically, if one freely gives of one's time and talent, what goes around, comes around, not necessarily the same person will help out but someone else will because we're all family.

/The only reason why some family members are held at arm's length is because they try to take advantage of us but think we're too blur not to see through the pretense - or they have an elevated sense of their own abilities on the acting stage of life that they assume they pull the wool over others' eyes. Btw, just because some people keep quiet, doesn't mean they're not aware of the shenanigans.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

Genesis - noted. TQ. And my PoV remains that once the country is developed, they should be self confident enough to compete with the world on merit. It is a weakness to continue with protectionist policies when they already have so much. This is the reason why their poorer neighbours are frustrated, feel oppressed, etc. and wars are started. What goes around, comes around. Those who are rich and arrogant will get their come uppance, one way or another. The sad thing is the innocent suffer.

PaulCowan said "Promoting people too fast doesn't achieve anything. It just leaves them feeling confused and inadequate, and they are unable to control what is going on around them because they have no knowledge of the basics - or even of the little tricks their staff get up to. So I would say the quota system (unless tranfers are banned) really serves no purpose beyond putting a pay packet into the hands of nationals to keep them happy."

- Sorry, disagree. Quota system / protectionist policies are necessary for developing nations - because its people are not ready to compete in the world arena. Qatar is very much like Malaysia, except a few years behind it in terms of development (NB: not talking about wealth per se) because Qatar recently opened it doors to the world a few years ago.

Suggest Qatar learns from Malaysia's mistakes so - re: protectionist policies - where there is infighting now - those who want to continue being protected because "it's their right" and the smarter ones who know they need to be confident enough to let go and compete on merit in order to break free and move forward. A house divided will fall. I believe the leaders are aware but have trouble managing the situation.

/Smart people learn from other people's mistakes so as to avoid landing into unnecessary trouble and thus, suffer less.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

Rav05 said:

but it confirms the danger that Qataris are not always trained and helped in the way that they should be.

The question is: Will they accept training and guidance without repercussions towards the trainer, because of their national status?

Sometimes is not worth training others, reasons of fear, displacement or termination by them, once they feel they could do your job. It is very common in Qatar.

Westerners will do a mental count of Hadji's inside any aircraft, at any airport, before take off...

Peter Russel

QS, noted your predicament and frustration but agree with Rav05.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

Qatarisun, with your follow up posts you have answered your own question. It is clear that you don't want to help this lady, you resent that she has asked you for help, you resent that she is paid more than you. You are an office manager so must have experience in handling people, but your only response to this struggling colleague's cry for help is to post increasingly critical details about her on this website. She trusted you enough to believe she could speak to you in confidence: you have already betrayed that trust. Your organization pays you to act as a manager: if they don't pay you enough,leave and take your skills elsewhere: her salary is not the issue. You are an experienced manager, she is an administrator, probably having very little experience of the workplace. That's why she asked you for help, albeit in an an inappropriate way. But, instead of being proacative and seeking to resolve the situation with her, or in a professional way, with her supervisor, you whinge on a public website that you are somehow the victim and how it's not fair.... You as a professional,as a senior, have a responsibility to help this junior colleague. If she isn't competent, it is the fault of her managers: why not address this instead of moaning on about how she made a mistake with an email (have you never made mistake? Especially if you hadn't been trained properly). Your story does imply that there is anything wrong with Qatarization, but it confirms the danger that Qataris are not always trained and helped in the way that they should be.

removed by mod

I am not saying my opinion about Qatarization, but to Qatarisun's last comment: it seems you talk everything about using computer,may be she has some kinda starting problem with it, i have seen some really succesful managers/entrepreneurs who don't know how to make a letter in word or how to reply all to an email etc. but they are really successful in developing business and ideas so don't think that a person who has some reluctance to computer is not at all competent. May be she was not used to computers as we all are, she might be using it 1st time when joined your company, you all know using potential of computers is also a kind of art, people who like to do more experiments or explore will learn more. she might be already feeling that she s not competent seeing the speed you all do the works n all: there is something HR practices called: Induction, Orientation, Mentoring etc which along with that other HR practices are not followed to a great extent in these part of the world. Think of this as an opportunity,if she is open to you try to use it as an opportunity to make a friendship with her help her learn things and as she is a Qatari she will have the promotions very fast and if you can mentor her to be efficient it will be more faster and who knows may be she will be your boss one day and may be that day she will reward you for the help you do today, even if not from her if you help some1 with a good mind god is seeing it and he s going to repay it to you.

edifis, two points:

1- It's our country, you're comparing apples to oranges (not a fruit).

2-We will never reach 100% Qatarization unless the country becomes poor again.

Is Qatarization a good idea?

Here is my 2pence on the issue.

I come from India which is a country where society is cleft on the basis of caste religion and many other criteria.

There is the really creamy layer(irrespective of their caste) whose children are not so desperate for a job. Next comes the huge middle class working people who are divided into many castes. And what is shocking is the government has a "age old" caste based reservation system in place to give opportunity to the weaker section of the society. And how is it judged "if they fall in the weaker strata or not?" It is not done according to their present affluence or present social status. But their caste is determined by a "caste certificate" issued by a local government body which states their surname and their caste based on the proffession of their forefathers.

The result: Many incompetent people belonging to the low/backward caste, often not so poor gets positions in high government offices.

The third category of people the really down trodden people belonging to The SC/ST ie "scheduled castes/scheduled tribes", mainly comprising of first generation literates or their offsprings obviously gets the advantage of the quota system. But you can't really complain about that. The reservation system was originally devised for the upliftment of the backward sections of the society, and blending them into the mainstream. But after 50 years many people who once belonged to these underprivileged section have already come to the mainstream society, and some have grown to be affluent. But their children still use the quota system instead of merit to get a job. The result is degeneration of the standard of government workforce.

But I believe the reservation system can never be good for a society.

A deserving Qatari does not need any Qatarization program to get a job. He can get a job on the basis of merit. The Qatarization program means giving incompetent people important offices only for the sake of increasing the number of Qatari workforce.

How would the scenario be like after 100% Qatarization is achieved. Then may be all positions in a office is held by an incompetant staff.No more Expats required in Qatar.You may see that they may outsource their job to call centers in India and China. So a HR rep in Qatar will have a remote desktop somewhere in India or Phillipines making a spread sheet or drafting a letter and sending it via mail.

""Once by mistake she sent to somebody my whole e-mail, including few words that i sent to HER personally... Other time, the e-mail that she sent to someone kept coming back, she couldn't understand what the problem is. I figured out that she copied from some e-mail: [mailto: xxxx/-a-t-/xxxx.com] and pasted all of it as it is in the address bar... and kept sending it like that, and kept receiving it back, and couldn't understand what's wrong""

-->And she works as HR-Administrator????? ROFL :)))))

Why not transfer her at the Reception? Or maybe an Office Asst.? Oh well, I doubt if she even qualify to that.

I hear your sentiment now, good thing you still keep your sanity. God have mercy on you dear :)

Apple, no one started with experience. But most of us started with at least a basic education, and desire to succeed.

And I highlighted earlier, that this is not the first time that i am doing her job. as i said, I was doing this part of job before she joint the company. She was hired to take this part of work from me, as i am really overloaded with the job lately. Now it turned out that i am not only still doing her job, but also have to teach her? She needs to be taught from the very BASIC! She doesn't know how to prepare the simple table in Excel. She actually has no any idea about Excel at all, and she is a very very beginner with MS Word. Should I start giving her course of MS Office? I can prompt some advanced features, I don’t mind.. But to start teaching her from the scratch? I physically don’t have time for it! That's what the educational institutions for! BTW, Microsoft office in Qatar spends billions (!!) on giving courses to the locals FOR FREE. But why to bother yourself since there is always someone at the office who can do it for you?

This shows her “educational” level.

Another issue is her weak English. Should I start giving her English lessons? No, we make it "easier": i prepare the e-mail for her, send her, and she forwards it to the recipient. But you know, she even doesn't READ these e-mails before sending!

This shows her “desire to learn and to succeed” level.

Once by mistake she sent to somebody my whole e-mail, including few words that i sent to HER personally... Other time, the e-mail that she sent to someone kept coming back, she couldn't understand what the problem is. I figured out that she copied from some e-mail: [mailto: [email protected]] and pasted all of it as it is in the address bar... and kept sending it like that, and kept receiving it back, and couldn't understand what's wrong. Should I teach her sending the e-mails too?? I cannot sit at her desk whole day and perform step-by-step tasks for her.

Again, I would understand, if it’s only lack of experience, but in this case, there is no any education, and no any desire to learn anything whatsoever… One with the lack of experience can always look around at the office what and how others are doing, one can always ask for help how better to plan the task, how to better complete it, what strategy to chose, etc. But no one can walk into your office and ask you: would you do my job for me in secret?

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“You become responsible forever for what you have tamed”. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

no cynbob, she cannot fire me... we are kind of in the parallel departments, no one is the boss of another...

Her position is a bit lower than mine one. Ironically her salary is a lot higher...

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“You become responsible forever for what you have tamed”. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

I'd be willing to help her only up to a certain extent, BUT I WILL NOT MAKE IT A SECRET. I'll see to it that the office knows I'm doing extra help to other people in the office. I deserve recognition anyway.

In my office, I help my other officemates ONLY when I'm done with MY work, my own responsibilities. I use my time on the jobs that is expected of me by my Boss, not by the Accounting, Marketing or HR Department. I say no when I mean no. I only help when I'm able to, but never as a secret. Keeping it as a secret is plain unfair.

I wonder what will be her answer if she's asked the same question. I bet her answer would be no.

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Everything happens for a

reason.

thanks for the info,now i understand why the said lady has a job like tht..some people WILL have all the luck.

LIVE and LET LIVE

Just keep answering the phone and be quiet. At least is not included in the Qatarization process.

Could you keep a secret? or Could you hold a secret?

Which one is better?

It will depend on the level of the confession.....

The problem is I think you’re an overeducated, 27-year-old virgin who holds the hands of superstitious old women and promises them eternity.

This is not only applicable to developing countries. Let's take France for instance,All leading project directors or mangers in leading companies in France or abroad are french (white french to be specific).I've seen project manager as young as 22years old being assigned to lead a group of professional immigrants (Moroccan, Indians, Chinese,etc).

I totally agree with bleu. Yet, i also agree with Victor Bhatt as this is the case in most ministries & government offices

I suppose if she is Qatari and she's asking you that....you do it if you want to keep your job!

QS,are you supposed to know the salary of your colleague? Isn't it confidential?

Are they really asking for help, or checking your loyalty.

You say on your profile you are Canadian. Are you Canadian or Arabic Canadian?

I would refuse. She is paid to do that job, she applied for that job and she got it.

She got that job through either nepotism or crap hiring.

Neither of those are your problem. Nor is her inability to do HER job!

I have to agree in keeping some "back up" to be in the safe side, just in case.....

It happens to me once, and my back up files save me from being fired. As it wasn't mine mistakes but have to prove it then. :)

Promoting people too fast doesn't achieve anything. It just leaves them feeling confused and inadequate, and they are unable to control what is going on around them because they have no knowledge of the basics - or even of the little tricks their staff get up to. So I would say the quota system (unless tranfers are banned) really serves no purpose beyond putting a pay packet into the hands of nationals to keep them happy.

To keep it secret or reveal it, all upto you.

But I do learn something from her, that... if someone ask a favor to keep a secret, I should never say yes! unless I know whats the deal?

Anyway, I just said "IF" I am in your shoes, I will be kind enough to teach and show her how to do her task. But the next time, she should know and learned to do on her own. Wouldn't do any harm for me to share my knowledge with her during my spare time but certainly NOT when I got load of works on my desk. After all, its for the benefits of both... hers and my company. I shouldn't forget that I started from zero work experience like all of you.

But things would be so easy if she has keen interest to learn. And that's the main question...is she interested in learning? If you feel that all she wanted is for you taking over her task....is a big NO!

It should be,.... instead of her asking you to do the job for her "secretly", she should be asking you politely "how" to have it done properly.

PaulCowan, "Mind you, there are plenty of incompetent, over-promoted managers all over the globe. It's not unique to Qatar, thought the quota system here encourages it."

Yes, right. Malaysia also. The question then arises whether protectionist policies such as the quota system are advantageous or not. For a developing country, yes - because its people are not there yet.

But later, when the country progresses towards being a developed country, it will be necessary to let everyone compete on a level playing field - on merit. That's the threshold where Malaysia is at now and boy, it is an extremely painful transition! Either move forward or regress. Hopefully not regress :0(

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

It's nothing new. With due respect to Bleu he appears to be the exception rather than the rule. The older generation of business people learned their craft the hard way and some leading companies actually do train Qataris properly, but for the most part companies grab Qataris to try to make up their quota and those who show any promise at all are likely to be promoted into executive positions before they've had time to learn the ropes. Then then rely on junior staff to manage the place for them and claim the credit for everything that goes right (hence the need for secrecy).

What is needed is company sponsorship for Qataris, so they can't jump from employer to employer. How's that for an outrageous idea? At the moment, they know that companies have to hire them to meet the quota, so if they don't get a big pay packet, instant promotion and a minuscule workload they can just jump over to another company, leaving their former employer urgently seeking another Qatari to fill the quota hole.

There's talk about balancing the rights of businessmen with those of workers as a justification for the sponsorship system but nobody ever refers to Qatari workers in that context. I wonder why.

How many Qataris have their own shop/business to run, have a full time job in the Government and are also supposedly full-time employees of a private company? How do they manage to give their all to each of these jobs?

It's not just Qataris who are in jobs they can't do who transfer their work to minions. There are plenty of people in middle and senior management positions in the private sector who are incompetent. Fortunately for business owners, a strong economy, limited competition and the efforts of underlings (who need the company to keep going) have often allowed profits to keep flowing despite brain-dead management. That's what I've observed over the last 17 years, anyway.

Mind you, there are plenty of incompetent, over-promoted managers all over the globe. It's not unique to Qatar, thought the quota system here encourages it.

QS - cynbob was the one who asked about whether the Qatari lady had the power to fire you. Sorry, did I forget to put that in inverted commas? Anyway, my comment was that even if she did, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

But as it turns out, she has no power over you at all. Anyway, my earlier comments on helping here where possible but with a backup plan still stands, for the aforesaid reasons. All the best.

Fubar, very well said.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

Victor Bhatt,

You seem to paint us all with a HUGE brush.

1) I got to be a manager after 12 years of hard work.

2) No secretary.

3) No Office assistant.

3a) I get out of work at 5-6

4) Some responses mostly go to my employees, I'm sometimes on the CC.

5) I'm sometimes wrong, and I accept constructive criticism.

6) I blame no one.

7) I only get promoted when I deserve it.

I copy my own papers, go to the printer to fetch pages and make my own tea/coffee...

I also know where to sign, and never sign anything before reading the whole thing.

p.s. you forgot to include Kuwait, we're the richer countries in the GCC.

Better to train her with the permission (knowledge) of some one in Managerial position. Dont let her take credit of your hard earned job.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CONFUSE ............ if you cannot convince!

B4 making such laws they should make their respected citizens to know the meaning of WORK...

Work definition for GCC citizens....following conditions apply:

1) Only Managerial category with an Asian secretary

2) An Asian secretary (preferably fluent in Arabic / English) to explain BOSS where to sign.

3) All telephone calls, emails and correpondences will be forwarded to Office assistant.

3a) All meetings and appointments to be completed before 2 PM; considering office timings from 8 to 2.

4) All responses will be delivered from HIS inbox.

5) Note Your BOSS is always right..disclaimer applied

6) All blames and mistakes to borne by sub-ordinate staff.

7) All promotions and salary revision annually irrespective of any crisis or losses situation.

I too believe in awareness and education but first thing is willingness to work and learn should be there.....; a fine tuning to their attitudes should be built to make them work....which Govt. doesn't want.

When my state Govt. provided me everything free (W&E, education, medical, etc.) Then WHY should I move my A** for petty things.

Do you need some more conditions......

They are the eligible Citizens of Gulf country, itself is a big qualification. End of Oil and Govt's motivational drive could make them work; as this happened in Oman and Bahrain to certain extent.

The culture in MNC's and made qataris/emaratis to work in UAE and offices in Qatar as well for photocopying, filing, etc by individual responsible and NO office boys at their disposals.

Sometime these culture teach them a lot.

Emanuel, I don't mean that comment in the negative way it sounded.

I'm just saying that in my experience, there are companies who desperately need Qatari nationals to fill various high level positions. It is some sort of requirement that the Head of this dept or the xxx manager be Qatari.

Since there aren't enough skilled Qataris to fill all the skilled positions, they compromise and put people who aren't 100% into the roles, and then expect the junior staff to make up the shortfall.

It would be rare for a Qatari to be fired or demoted for failing to execute his/her job 100%, since the employer would then have to find another Qatari who could do the job.

The sad truth is that at the moment, there just aren't enough good Qataris to go around.

If your gonna do her job, you might as well take her job if you know what i mean. Not fair on your behlaf if she gets the credit and you do all the work, and she gets the paycheck etc...

fubar, "And as far as I’m concerned, the bosses of Qataris seldom expect that they are actually capable (or willing) to do the job they are paid for."

- Well, that's counter productive, isn't it? If they judge a person as incapable, after a while, the latter might just give up and live up to their bosses' low expectations. I would expect a high standard and find ways to guide or if I can't guide (eg. technical issues), then find someone or a few people who can. Always don't rely on and bug one person only. Bug a few and spread the love around.

/NB: I said "a few", not the whole world.

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Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

cynbob said Well, ...She's in an administrative position.

Does she have the power to fire you?

If you do not want to lose your job, do you really have a choice here?"

Cynbob - always more than one way to skin Smokey. Unless the company is a sole proprietorship and the lady is closely connected or related to the owner, there are ways to create options to avoid being held over the barrel of a gun by any one person.

*****************************************

Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

this is a stoopid q, but as one who does not belong to the workforce,cd u humor me ppl, and tell me why would anyone hire someone if they dont measure up in the first place/ I mean, shouldnt this person be qualified for the job?

LIVE and LET LIVE

QS - "in a way that no one at the office would know about it" - to save face and embarrassment so she can learn effectively and build up her confidence. I would be discreet about other people in the company but I would inform my superiors or whoever in the chain of authority I think needs to be kept informed.

Only you can assess her attitude as you are in personal contact with her. If you think she's just lazy and taking things for granted, then put her out to dry - later - after giving her an opportunity first with clear guidance but monitored.

I'm patient when it comes to work because my objective is what's best for the company. But there's a limit and hints and later, clear warnings issued.

Apple - "If she refuse to learn and instead wants you to do it for her all the time, then its time for you to inform the company management."

- I'd inform certain people right from the start - so there's a time line to refer back to. And not start later when she gives you trouble.

On the face of it, I agree with naba100's comments and yes, what goes around, comes around but proceed with a backup plan. I've said before - people learn best when encouraged and not put down.

/Yeah, in work and in relationships, I can do this for years. I hope my bosses aren't reading this or they'll think they can take me for granted for another few years. NB: once bitten twice shy - very likely, it's not going to be 7 years anymore but much less.

Generally agree with Rav05 also but a lot depends on your own workload. If you're already stretched too thin, then it's quite difficult to be very generous. You can only do what you can to assist her with ideas where to look for information. At the end of the day she needs to be proactive and do her own research and work.

"At the same time, as she's asked you to be discreet, don't discuss with others in the company: that would be unkind and unfair."

- Being discreet means not telling the whole world )this thread is probably not very wise) but a few carefully chosen people - for future reference in case some sh*t hits the fan, you gotta cover your a**e.. well, and face.

*****************************************

Don't want no drama,

No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama

you shouldn't. and no one is expecting you to( from what I understand you work in a private sector, if she’s not up to that standard she must quit). Make sure the next time you assist her, to cc your superiors . This way, she'll get the picture.

naba100, Apple.. I do NOT mind to guide her, to train her, to teach her, to help her... BUT.. WHY I should keep it in SECRET?? This is the question! Why the management shouldn't know that I am (who is getting much less salary than she is) guiding,training, teaching, helping?...

brit, you got my point!WHY in secret?

notfromhere, i wish, we could exchange by cheques with this lady at the end of the month :)

again, I don't mind to help, and i actually keep doing it from her first day at the office.. basically I was doing her job before she joint the office, and i AM still doing about 80% of her job indirectly..

once the Boss asked her to do something, she was unable to do it so he asked me "to help her".. i ended up with starting and finishing the whole task. and it is happaning all the time...But at least they know who is doing the job...

BUT to come to my office and to ask stright: would you do my job IN SECRET???

*********************

“You become responsible forever for what you have tamed”. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

If you do this job of her.. next time, she will ask you again. Imagine, you are doing all her work and she is getting all the pay for the work you have done.

teach her, if she don't want to learn then that is her problem.

Thumbs Up to Rav05's suggestion

This post brings back memories of the day after our wedding..

Mrs Expat whispered in my ear .. "Can you keep a secret".. Then she informed me that I wil do the washing and ironing as and when required..

Memories....

Thumbs Up Buddy

If she was asking for some help doing the odd thing here and there, that’s nothing to be ashamed of. I would help her if there were a couple of tricky things that she just couldn’t get her mind around.

But if she was asking me to do almost 100% of her job, I would have to say no.

Firstly, the practicality of the situation is limited. What does she do when someone asks her a question, or she has to make a report in a meeting? She will be caught out soon enough.

Secondly, how are you supposed to do your job to the desired level if you are spending all your time running after her?

The only person she needs to be speaking to is her supervisor. I assume she is Qatari, so it’s hardly like they are going to fire her or discipline her or demote her. And as far as I’m concerned, the bosses of Qataris seldom expect that they are actually capable (or willing) to do the job they are paid for.

She's in an administrative position.

Does she have the power to fire you?

If you do not want to lose your job, do you really have a choice here?

and got the t-shirt:-)

katas ng qatar

LOL NFH we said the same thing about the pay cheque thing..but what i find funny here is how the lady is asking if QS can keep a secret and not if she can do her a favor :P

Thats like saying "hey can u keep a secret?...will u do my dirty laundry for me but not tell anyone?"

Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)

_[]~SMoKE~[]_

QS i'm sure she didnt mean for you to actually just do her job for her, but more like most of the guys here said, show her the ropes :p I would not advice u to do her work for her coz then what exactly is she going to do around the office? Secondly, if there are any mistakes (everyone makes mistakes even YOU ;) )so IF there are any of those, whats to stop her from putting the blame on u tomorrow? If your boss found out about this what do u think he'd say? You are not hired to do other peoples work, this lady is not going to be giving u any part of her salary coz ur doing her job now is she?

So keep her secret to the extent that you only guide her and show her how she is to do her own job, and if she cant then u know u can always hire me..and i'm very good at working with pretty women.....oops did i just say that out loud???

Good Fortune always comes knocking at your door...when you are sh*tting in the toilet!! :)

_[]~SMoKE~[]_

haha..same situation, but the deffences i tell all to my colleagues!.and who care his a qatari!

__________________________________________

Life is short, so try to make it long!

Is she going to give you her paycheck?

Tell her you are already busy with your own work...and its really impossible to do it.

And then there is always the Mallu way:

Say yes...., never refuse, learn the job well...when she goes on leave.....tell your boss the whole story...when she comes back she gets the termination letter...you get officially promoted.....you get to do 2 work at 1.5 salary. You are happy. Your boss is happy.....lol

All very strange..

I am confused by the "Can you keep a secret" bit..

Anyway, I would tend to agree with Abu slightly here.. However, you should let her know that you will "train her to do her job", but not take over her tasks...

So you mean she is a Qatari lady ! better offer her help thru proper training !!

and try to keep the secret ;-)

The answer is NOOOOOO!

But what she obviously needs is career counseling. Which you can certainly give as a friend.

Btw, are you in the same department as her? obviously yes but just to make sure.

I guess even if you help out a little, you have to convey the fact that your time in office belongs to the company... so the helping dosen't become routine

------------------------------------------

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

I'd teach her, but not DO the job for her, that's abusive already...kinda not fair if you do the job yourself and she's the one getting paid for it...

If i'm in ur situation, I would patiently guide/teach her to do the job but if she refuse to learn and instead wants you to do it for her all the time, then its time for you to inform the company management. She cannot depends on you always, what if you decided to leave for good then?

After all, this is one of the concepts of Qatarization, for locals to learned and be trained....:)

The poor lady: what an uncomfortable position she is in.

It must have taken a lot for her to come to you like that.

It sounds as if she has never been trained or shown how to do her job. It is really the responsibility of her line manager or training dept to ensure she is capable, and they, not her, are at fault if she is struggling like this and no-one has noticed.

However, to show yourself as a really great team player, why don't you ask her to bring any task she is not able to do, to you, and you will help her, discreetly, to understand.

Offer to check any work she's done, before she submits it, so you can reassure her its OK, or prevent embarrassing mistakes. This way, you will really be helping her to develop her skills and confidence.

It also gives you a chance to use your skills and experience,in a very positive way, but without taking on her workload.

Be generous: offer all help and support you can. Your aim is to help her feel competent by coaching and advice, not to create a 'guilty secret', don't be drawn into that.

At the same time, as she's asked you to be discreet, don't discuss with others in the company: that would be unkind and unfair.

Encourage her to request training, via her manager, by using her job description as a basis for analyzing what she needs to become competent. Don't interfere in that yourself.

You have been given a great chance, to show what a great colleague, what a great professional, and what a great asset you are to your HR team. Use it wisely.

Not that she cannot do here work, but she just wants you to help her make her work more proficiently. Be generous to share your experience with your coworkers and know that your good deeds will be paid back to you directly or indirectly. Learn to keep secrets in life! Stay safe

I wouldn't ... This is not what Qatartzation intended.

It always good to have a job with benefits, so I asked,, are there any out of hours work she wants you doing on her??

It is always the lost that need my guidance

who will sign the documents? unless she puts her signature on a rubber stamp :D

===================================== http://www.qatarliving.com/node/58409

Shame! You revealed her secret already. :)

You know what I don't advise you to go for it, so you won't put her and yourself in trouble.

Your next step would be letting the company (or so) know about the job you did FOR HER! Other advise try to hold your horses.

Cheers

"Better in time...down just like that"

I think I know waht Jackfrost means, huh!

Just think twice whatever you will do. Jackfrost is being naughty I guess.

"simple yet complicated"

"makamal a anak"

‘can you keep a secret?‘..., This was the question you faced and you said "yes sure".

Is this how you keep a secret?

Now 3 people already know!

spike, i don't do mistakes :)

Jackfrost, sorry, i couldn't figure out what did you say.. come again please..

*********************

“You become responsible forever for what you have tamed”. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

It is always the lost that need my guidance

HR, man!, at least even if you will make any mistake in the future, you are safe as she will be behind you.

"simple yet complicated"

"makamal a anak"