Pope welcomes atheists and agnostics
I'm not sure to be happy with this announcement or be worried, but at least he is not threatening non believers with death on earth and hellfire
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The unprecedented gesture came as his incoming number two, the Vatican's newly-nominated secretary of state, said that the rule that priests should be celibate was not "a dogma of the Church" and could be open for discussion.
Francis, who has won praise for spontaneous and unusual moves during his six month papacy, wrote a lengthy letter to a newspaper, La Repubblica, which the Italian daily printed over four pages, including page one, under the simple byline "Francesco".
"God forgives those who obey their conscience," he wrote in the unprecedented letter, the latest example of the markedly different tone and style from his predecessors that he has set since being elected in March.
The 76-year-old pontiff was responding to editorials written in July and August by Eugenio Scalfari, an agnostic and the paper's founder, in which he was asked whether "the Christian God forgives those who do not believe and do not seek faith".
Is Microsoft launching a new god?
God 1.1
Adey: In my comment to Mn, I was agreeing with her comment regarding the Catholic church's new approach in regards to such controversial issues.
As to my stance on this matter, well I'm a live and let live person.
I don't need the Pope/Sheikh to tell me that.
Got ya now
Adey: This is what I meant to say
(MN, in the eyes of the Catholic church ( and most organized religions, unbelievers are condemned until they believe.) (:
i'm sorry for not elaborating.
Yes I don't believe in his doctrine but what he says is believed by his sheep. Say bad things and bad things could happen by the deranged, say good things maybe his followers will follow his example of tolerance.
I posted that last post before I saw your reply to Nomerci. Ok, Im confused now. Im not sure what your position on the matter is.
Now you are being irrelevant, because as you said before, we can't be condemned by something that doesn't exist for not believing in something that does not exist.
This is only relevant to The Pope, the catholic church and catholics. It wont change anyones opinion - you're either a believer or you're not. It might however lessen friction between both camps, which can only be a good thing. Your resolute defence of dogma only maintains the status quo of intolerance.....and as a person on QL I dont see you as intolerant at all.
:)
NM: I couldn't agree more (:
MN, in the eyes of the Catholic church ( and most organized religions) and some of its members, unfortunately, yes.
NM: unbelievers remain condemned until they believe.
Marco, no, IMHO, it is not irrelevant. IMHO it implicates that the Catholic Church (of which I am not a member), is inclined to foster some level of tolerance previously not very common amongst its community.
It may be a small step, but it is a beginning.
thats why I don't care what he says. But I thought we were discussing the Pope's motivation for his statement.
RIP/ Adey: Atheists don't believe in Heaven/hell. to them none of this is real, and God
doesn't exist so it's all irrelevant anyway.
The Catholic Church is a dying institution and maybe in 50 to a 100 year it will become an irrelevance to most of humanity as it has already become to the majority of westerners. I think he is trying to drum up some extra membership....
Well I think the Pope understands the way the wind is blowing. If the catholic church relies on dogma and does not progress then society will progress around them until the church dies, as has happened to hundreds of religions beforehand.
Dogma needs to reform, otherwise the religion dies and so does the dogma...forgotten in the sands of time.
Adey: Well it seems that everybody is willfully misinterpreting the scriptures these days.
There is a very important distinction in the beliefs of the Catholic Church between "Redemption" which is Christ dying for your sins enabling us to do good, and "Salvation" (going to heaven)
And since the Pope is Catholic, so he is obviously saying the latter ( Atheists are redeemed, but not saved )
Pope Francis reached out to atheists and agnostics, telling them that God will "forgive" them as long as they behave morally and live according to their consciences, the Telegraph reported.
"To listen and to follow your conscience means that you understand the difference between good and evil," the Pope said.
His letter did not impress the Italian Union of Atheists and Agnostics, the Telegraph reported.
"Why should a non-believer seek legitimization from the Pope?" the association said. "What interests non-believers is certainly not 'forgiveness' from an entity whose existence we do not trust."
Marco, and how would you interpret this verse?
The Pope understands that the bible, whether old or new testament, is not to be read as a literal fact based entity.
Those that treat any holy book as literal, from whatever religion, are those that cause all the intolerance and harm in society.
See Reza Aslan's critique of how the bible works:
I am pleased that this new Pope does not appear to be a literal fundamentalist.
"I am the Way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:36
Enough said.
You are all individuals, you don't need to follow anyone....
What a speech, makes the sermon in the mount sound like a love sick kids lament
"hadn’t heard that kind of nonsense since some nutter wandered round Palestine telling people to love their neighbour and not to judge"
yes, Brian had some valid points...
As far as the new Pope is concerned - I like him !
I think it is kinda a nice message from the pope. Makes a change from child abuse, the inquisition and burning witches. Lets hope the mosques in Qatar this Friday preach tolerance to the same degree for all humans be they non believers or gay
pope should also provide separate land for them as he is supporting them not to disturb other people's beliefs by keeping them together
"God forgives those who obey their conscience"
Building up of the conscience is nothing but social conditioning from childhood. It can either be right or wrong as seen by the other person in a different social set up or era. So, if the person obey's his/her conscience, he/she could be obeying either right or wrong thoughts. If all of these are forgiven by God, what's the point of being so obsessed about God or religion?
How do the Popes come to know about the Gods message ,what is the code of communication Facebook or Whatsapp
we are free to post true facts , if you cant face the bitter truth better avoid reading
fron today's Independent:
'When we think of all the other silly mistakes that could have been avoided if only the Pope had spoken up sooner, it is really quite frustrating. Isn’t it a shame about the Crusades, for instance?
This is not the first time that the Pope has upset Catholics with crazy talk about kindness and patience. Only this summer he asked, “If someone is gay and is looking for the Lord, who am I to judge him?” Christians hadn’t heard that kind of nonsense since some nutter wandered round Palestine telling people to love their neighbour and not to judge. Did Jesus really hate the gays? Is the Pope a Catholic? Who knows any more?'
i think the mods removed the groups for now until the site gets upgraded.
so does this mean we are free to post whatever we like on the threads?
this thread should be posted in religious group its time for mods action
what a terrible god you have nite rider. no wonder you turned out that way
Pope welcomes atheists and agnostics - So The Pope Does Not Believe In God to welcome non believers ?
"the Christian God forgives those who do not believe and do not seek faith".
Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/17797071#ixzz2elMYYFuH
Fantastic GOD to forgive who do not believe him and have faith in him, totally fake religion
Some religions are just more tolerant than others I guess.
why worry? it shouldn't matter to you right?
The full article for those that are interested
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/10302850/Pope-Francis-reaches-out-to-atheists-and-agnostics.html