Poisonous atmosphere at CNA-Q

It seems to be true from firsthand experience in dealing with some unhappy people over there. My wife had her admission test today. In the listening part, the sound system did not work and the admin's were so rude and un-professional to admit mistakes. They agreed at the end that she can repeat the part that she missed. However, their initial refutation and rude conduct have stressed her out. Whatever the outcome from this exam, she is debating now if she should pursue anything in this place. We will see. Sad to see such a shameful educational system that represents the Canadian education standards. As I personally attended undergrad and grad schools in Canada, I know that this is not a true example of our learning institutions back home. Again, to be fair, this could be a one off but defiantly not a good start.

....

CNA and CNA-Q courses are different. Cna-q are made simpler so locals can pass.

I couldn't last 3 months in CBQ

In the Cookies of Life, FRIENDS are the Chocolate Chips

www.bastook.com

Although rivalry is everywhere it sucks with gangism and CBQ is all the same esp indian gundagardi

I hope qatar loses the olympics bid Inshallah

Although rivalry is everywhere it sucks with gangism and CBQ is all the same esp indian gundagardi

I hope qatar loses the olympics bid Inshallah

Its horrendously pathetic

This situation doesn't just apply to universties etc., just try working for QP! It's nepotism and cronyism all the way, coupled with a total lack of professional ethics, moral integrity and disregard for it's employees welfare. Oh, and did I mention the Indian Mafia?

Oh yes, by the way, I do have nothing better to do than cut-up my employer on this website. It's my only chance to vent!

I did check it out and it has nothing to do with the OP's thread topic: what's wrong with CNA-Q.

Money talks so employees are willing to put up with anything!

And things are going crazy in Newfoundland. Complaints abound there about CNAQ.

But can you check out this:

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/113232

:-)

ah, so it continues in 2008!

"It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid."

- George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

CNAQ is a joke. It is operated by dictators who promote people who are like-minded.

there are pros and cons in working at CNAQ.

and there are some employees aren't thankful/greatful for what they have and they are bitching on minor/silly things.

on the other hand I agree with litteratuer on some positions have no job description, no promotion system, lot of favoritism, and employees who work their ass of and are really poorly paid comparing to others who all they do is sit and complaining about their job and the salary and the system.

that is why there are unqualified employees working in the college.

In the Cookies of Life, FRIENDS are the Chocolate Chips

www.bastook.com

CNA-Q does have big problems. The upper management (Presidents, Vice-Presidents) are the main source of the problem. They are the people who screened, interviewed, and hired these 3 destructive deans. There are rumours that big changes are in the pipeline: heads are gonna roll in upper-management. So, upper-management is scrambling for life jackets and blaming others.

The only reason I (and others) stay is the big bucks. Management knows this and causes us a lot of grief. That is the reason management can get away with all the wicked things they do. Where else can I sit in an office and make QR25,000/month (with my level of education)?

Do CNA-Q Having summer course also?

I see that ACCC (the Association of Community Colleges of Canada) does not list CNAQ job vacancies anymore - does anyone know why? It is curious.

I really have to wonder why CNA has stuck it out in Qatar. Why are they there? Initially it was announced as a major money maker for the province of NL and would provide employment for Newfoundlanders. The reality is that the contract they signed with the Qataris provides them with not much revenue - about as much as Qatar makes in an hour on oil and gas - the Qataris really saw them coming! Also more and more employees are going non-resident, which obviously provides no tax money to NL government. And yes, folks, there are some people that work at CNAQ and pay Canadian income tax!! - and EI and CPP (although they can't collect EI back in Canada)- and the % of Newfoundlanders is dropping as they scour the rest of Canada for employees - I believe it is around 40% Newfoundlanders at present according to my sources.

When CNA was "negotiating" with the Qataris the Qataris said - "we all speak English". The reality is that not many Qatari high school grads do - so..... CNAQ's faculty is 50% EFL teachers!!! - some 150 or so. This is a Technical School? - maybe an English school with some tech courses. Maybe a bit of research was needed? It can take a Qatari three or four years - to complete a two year diploma program - due to poor English skills- much to the chagrin of the Qatari employers - who are paying their wages while they go to school!

Are they doing it for international prestige and recognition? I don't think anyone outside of Newfoundland or Qatar has heard of CNAQ - or CNA for that matter. Hmmmm..............

I have to take exception that the CBC story in early November is old news - the survey was done last May and what has changed? They fired a Dean who was causing problems, but the important fact that noone has mentioned is that the executive leadership of the college that allowed the harassment to take place is still there and "leading" the college. Their management style fostered the terrible working atmosphere at CNAQ - they are all still there, so what has changed? PS - another Dean has "resigned" - her faculty was the other one with real problems - hmmm - scapegoats? The CBC report on TV in NL mentioned that there were three real "problem managers" identified in the survey- two have resigned or were fired, the other has vowed "to change her ways" - wonder who that is - come on CNAQ people - who would that be? Why has the executive of CNAQ not been held accountable - tell me that! The CBC also quoted the COT leader Dr. Latifa as saying "the way CNA treats its employees is of no concern to me". It took the CBC reporter aback actually. When they interviewed Kevin Baker he did not deny anything - he admitted that there are major problems and they have hired consultants to do something about it - and they are implementing a respectful workplace program - does that sound like it is old news?

I also read with amusement that CNA was "chosen" by the Qataris to manage the project. I heard that respected institutions like BCIT and SAIT walked away from the project saying it was financially not viable and not attractive for other reasons. Chosen? maybe CNA was the only one left?

I asked some CNA-Q instructors from various departments (these are people I respect, they are articulate, reasoned, passionate about their teaching and self-reflective) if "poisonous" and "harassing" were adequate descriptions of their working conditions. About 2/3rds said "Yes." So the story is still alive and real. What might be surprising is that it didn't break sooner.

What is surprising is how unprepared the senior administration is for its role. In his town hall meeting in June, Hal Jorch spoke of how he gets the Qataris to pay attention to the needs of the college; he said, "We beg them for things and if they don't give it to us, we keep begging."

This is a culture that values relationship and negotiation. CNA-Q could use president/vice-presidents with these skills. It's not rocket science to realize that the college may have professional instructors (for the most part) but amateur administrators (for the most part). The administration does manage in a reactive, arbitrary and non-strategic fashion and without the use of management best practices (such as those found in major companies located--among other places--on Younge (sic) Street.) When you're managing an organization of the size of CNA-Q, you owe it to 600 employees--whose livelihoods depend on good management--to offer them good management.

The problem isn't just with ESL and the news isn't outdated.

The term "poisonous" was used by a College VP in Newfoundland in an e-mail some time ago. I don't think anyone in Qatar chose this term but it makes for good copy.

There are problems across the board. For example, I know the college has contracted to deliver TAFE compliant training (an Australian training model) to QP. Many of the instructors who "absconded" their employ over the past 9 months were slated to teach TAFE courses. As a result, other instructors have been given increased teaching loads with no additional compensation or recognition.

Concerns on a raft of topics have been raised with management and have not even been responded to with an acknowledgement. Two of the hardest hit faculties in terms of moral are Health Sciences and EFL/Academics.

There are wide ranging accusations of nepotism. People have been arbitrarily fired without any documented deficiencies in their work or performance. Some faculties pay overtime, others do not. Some faculties will pay some people overtime and not others for the same teaching loads. Some administrators promise to pay overtime but then renege. There are no clearly defined policies or procedures on a wide range of topics and issues allowing administrators to be arbitrary with impunity.

People have been denied exit visas; in these situations, administration has backed down when employees have threatened to sue the province of Newfoundland for violating their constitutional rights under Canadian law. The college refuses to grant multiple-exit permits. As a result, many people terminate their employ without notice and leave the country during a regular leave break.

The college really doesn't know about best practices in Canadian colleges outside of Newfoundland (which might explain why Gypsy hasn't heard of any other colleges in Canada outside of the Atlantic provinces).

This lack of best practices also applies to management practices as well and probably explains some of Kevin Baker's comments on the CBC audio file in the Newfoundland report.

Much has been said about the abuse taking place at CNAQ. One issue that has not been reported is the lack of respect for basic rights as guaranteed in the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms. Specifically I refer to article 7:

"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."

How is CNAQ abusing this right? By not negotiating multiple exit permits for its employees - a facility that is readily available in the state of Qatar.

Now, I know there are people out there who will respond with comments such as

"We are in Qatar - we have to adjust to local circumstances"

and:

"IF you can't take it go home" (This is a classic from people who cannot cut it in the real world and will sacrifice basic rights here because they are employed in a position beyond their competency.)

However, we are employed by a C.A.N.A.D.I.A.N company and for most of us, we pay taxes to Canada. It is reasonable to expect that our Canadian employer will honor the rights enshrined in the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms. Ironically, many local Qatari organizations provide multiple exit permits for their employees because they know most westerners would not work here if this basic freedom was curtailed.

I have no problem whatsoever with the rules of residency as determined by the state of Qatar. I do have an issue every time I apply for an exit permit from CNAQ to leave Qatar. The process developed by CNAQ is intrusive, demeaning, and actually gathers more information than is necessary to issue an exit permit. (It is surreptitiously also used as a means to enforce per-diem allowance policy) For example, a destination is asked for when none is required by the State of Qatar (they only want to know that we are authorized to leave). In addition, the process requires a four day lead time making it impossible, for example, to wake up one Friday and on-the-spur-of-the-moment take a shopping trip to Dubai. Think about it: imagine working for CNA in St. John's and not being able to travel to the US for the weekend because your manager has not authorized your (out of work time) trip. Unthinkable? you betcha!

I wonder how many of our esteemed "executives" have multiple exit permits? I'll bet they all do - and that is probably why they will not negotiate on our behalf.

So what to do! Well, the same Canadian charter of rights and freedoms has a remedy for citizens whose rights have been compromised:

"Anyone whose rights or freedoms, as guaranteed by this Charter, have been infringed or denied may apply to a court of competent jurisdiction to obtain such remedy as the court considers appropriate and just in the circumstances." - article 24

Alternatively, we could all apply for exit permits every week until the ineffective management of this institution gets the message that as tax paying Canadians, we deserve to have our charter rights preserved.

I wonder how many other charter rights are being abused?

quoting wizmotr

"we beg them for things and if they dont give it to us, we keep begging"

This has got to be the overall conclusion of the thread if it is correct.

when applying to other colleges? Most are told that they are going to have to start their B.A./B.S. from scratch. Something to do with accreditation?

Uh no, these people have NOT been living in these environments for years if you are referring to Qatar and we ARE in a position to comment because we are professionals who have decades of experience in colleges and universities around the world including neighbour Dubai.

There is no defined boundary at CNA either, *yawn* yeah I know, it's all new etc etc and we can overlook mean people because they are stressed etc etc... NOT!

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. So what if the management style in Qatar is different, so what if they start work at 04:00, so what if people look busy doing nothing. What puts you (i.e. those that have commented negatively) in a poisition to advise. These people have been living in these environments for years and know how best to deal with it and its inhabitants (both permanent and temporary).

Surely its up to the expats to try to understand and work within the defined boundary ?

Again, let me repost the quotes from previous managers in CNA who verify the claims.

The vice president in charge of the Qatar project is far more important and believable and has far more credibility than anyone who writes this off as "one disgruntled employee".

Kevin Baker, the college's vice-president in charge of the Qatar project, wrote in a March e-mail to the provincial Education Department that he had "never encountered such a poisoned, repressive environment in my entire career."

Then CNA quality assurance manager, another person whose job actually was involved with this issue confirms the story.

Dennis Brunt, who worked as a quality assurance manager for the project in Qatar for three years before deciding not to return this fall because of stress, said while harassment was not an issue for him, it was for employees who confided in him.

"They were telling me they were experiencing harassment, verbal abuse ... they were getting harassed basically from management," Brunt told CBC News.

So all you nameless management brown nosing CNA employees minimizing the story have been exposed! The two mentioned managers offer a real insight into what is happening at CNA. You people are part of the problem and not the solution. This is why you are protesting the appearance of the truth. The CNA President's letter also supports the CBC report.

Oh right, next thing you'll say is that he is too new to know anything. There! Beat you to it! ROTFL

A disgruntled CNAQ instructor quit after the Doha Players bombing in 2005. At the time, he appeared on CBC TV critisizing the college for the bad treatment of it's employees after the bombing. Sounded like sour grapes to me. It went to naught b/c no bombing since and the college has increased security.

Are EFL teachers grumbling? I thought they were the last group to be grumbling b/c they are the group of teachers who are actually trained and prepared to teach what they are supposed to be teaching (teaching English to non-native speakers). In contrast to this, many of the content teachers are trying to teach something they aren't prepared or trained to teach: teach content (e.g., engineering, trades, security, health science,to non-native speakers). Many of the content teachers come from industry or teaching to native speakers. When they come here, their students are non-native speakers with barely enough language to understand the content. It is true the sponsors who pay the bills at the college are pushing the ESL teachers to get the students through the ESL program faster and into the "real" content classes faster. This reduces the quality of the students' language and increases the frustration (and griping) level of the content instructors.

A disgruntled CNAQ instructor quit after the Doha Players bombing in 2005. At the time, he appeared on CBC TV critisizing the college for the bad treatment of it's employees after the bombing. Sounded like sour grapes to me. It went to naught b/c no bombing since and the college has increased security.

Are EFL teachers grumbling? I thought they were the last group to be grumbling b/c they are the group of teachers who are actually trained and prepared to teach what they are supposed to be teaching (teaching English to non-native speakers). In contrast to this, many of the content teachers are trying to teach something they aren't prepared or trained to teach: teach content (e.g., engineering, trades, security, health science,to non-native speakers). Many of the content teachers come from industry or teaching to native speakers. When they come here, their students are non-native speakers with barely enough language to understand the content. It is true the sponsors who pay the bills at the college are pushing the ESL teachers to get the students through the ESL program faster and into the "real" content classes faster. This reduces the quality of the students' language and increases the frustration (and griping) level of the content instructors.

Or perhaps yours doesn't DoubleT, after all you're the only one who's verifying these claims.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Gypsy, it is not Qatar. Your social group is fortunate but it does not represent CNA.

Well everyone I speak to seems to think Kevin Baker is trying to make it seem like he "saved" CNA-Q from something. Tooting his own horn so to speak.

As for the other guy, I don't know, don't know him. But Qatar isn't for everyone and you see a lot of people leave early because they can't handle the stress of living here. You can't blame it all on the College. Also people do complain, but this story is being blown out of proportion.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Gypsy,

You put an interesting spin on everything and sluff it off as disgruntled EFL workers and one lone disgruntled employee. I would love to see you explain these quotes:

Kevin Baker, the college's vice-president in charge of the Qatar project, wrote in a March e-mail to the provincial Education Department that he had "never encountered such a poisoned, repressive environment in my entire career."

Dennis Brunt, who worked as a quality assurance manager for the project in Qatar for three years before deciding not to return this fall because of stress, said while harassment was not an issue for him, it was for employees who confided in him.

CFA 1990,

Isn't it true that Ryerson was not accredited in Engineering when you graduated from it? Might explain why CNA was tougher... I am not sure what a Ryerson degree is worth now either compared to other universities...

Any implication that CNA is tougher than an accredited Engineering program would be completely false, but I don't think you are saying that.

As for CNA students, I have never heard of any problems with their knowledge or competence either. I think they compare well with anybody out of Toronto.

I grew up in the Center of the Universe (Toronto). During my first 30 years of life I learned the general attitude of most Torontonians is that anyplace outside of the GTA wasn't worth considering.

In 1990 I moved to St. John's, NL (gasp). It was there that I discovered how wrong the the people in the Center of the Universe were. There are places of worth in the rest of Canada that have high standards of education and community. I had previously completed a 4 year degree programme at Ryerson. In 2000 I went back to college, at CNA, for a three year electronics engineering technology diploma. The education I received there was more intense and challenging then what I received at Ryerson.

In 2004, my wife and I moved to Qatar to teach at CNA-Q. The problems mentioned are true and old news.

The issues posted that the engineering student mentioned can be linked back to QP and Qtel. The insist that the college make courses available outside the scheduled calendar. i.e. Back in NL, if a student fails ET1100 in the fall semester, it isn't offered again until the next fall semester. At CNA-Q, so many courses are trying to be delivered to students who have failed a class that there are not enough instructors to cover them all. It is not uncommon for instructors to be teaching to classes of 2 or three students.

As for the comment that graduating students from CNA-NL not fit for work nothing could be further from the truth. Case in point, the company that I now work for tried to hire grads from the Instrumentation Engineering programme but couldn't since they had all been snapped up by companies in Western Canada.

Witzomer spoke the truth about the reputation of CNA. In fact the only renowned institution from the east coast is Dalhousie. And that's mainly because it is so old relative to the rest of Canada. Too bad it's in Nova Scotia.

Gypsy your comment about the only people who seem to be supporting this claim are ones with a dislike for Newfoundlanders is so ridiculous that you have completely discredited yourself.

Paradoxically you then write about letting some stereotypes go but you yourself have stereotyped people not from Newfoundland.

Gypsy, no one is out to get Newfoundlanders. Give it a rest.

Here is the official response from Hal Jorch to members of CNA staff. It doesn't look like the college is disowning the survey results - they are very proud of the response rate, and admit that the issues are very real and important.

From: Jorch, Hal

Sent: Thu 11/1/2007 2:21 PM

To: Employees

Subject:

Good Afternoon,

As many of you are aware there have been stories on radio and television in Newfoundland & Labrador concerning the working environment at our campus and this story is now becoming wide-spread across the province and in Qatar as well.

This kind of story is obviously upsetting to all of us, but we know these concerns are not new. We are proud of the high response rate to last May's Employee Opinion Survey which revealed these concerns and others. The issues are very real and important, and steps have already been taken to address many of them.

Improved employee orientation, the work of the Respectful Workplace (RWP) team and increased communication are all results of your input. Action on other concerns that were part of my conversation with you at the Town Hall meeting in June are topics of conversations I'm having with the new CNA President, here in NL. I will also be debriefing with Andy Butt later today on the progress with the Respectful Workplace Program.

We want CNA-Q to be a positive working and living experience for everyone. Please remember that you can submit suggestions or comments on the College Improvement Form on the intranet and you can also contact members of the RWP team at [email protected]. Also, please don't hesitate to email me with anything urgent while I'm still in St. John's.

Best Regards,

Hal

Dr. Harald Jorch

CNAQ President

Also, the only people who seem to be supporting this claim are one's with an obvious and outspoken dislike for Newfoundlanders and Atlantic Canada and their instiutions in general. Perhaps it's time to let some stereotypes go, especially as we are no longer in Canada and nobody else knows or cares where Newfoundland or Ontario are. Really you're just being sad.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Double T the "survey" that you speak of was this one disgruntled former employee walking around asking people misleading questions, never saying they were for CBC. He then wrote up everything and sent it to his connection at CBC. I'm sorry this is wrong in a lot of ways, and personally I hope CBC Newfoundland will have enough wits to retract the story.

Really I'm sorry if you are having problems with the college, but that doesn't mean everyone is. In fact most people I know are very happy to be here and like there jobs a lot. The most scathing thing they can say is that sure there are some problems, but there's problems with every job, all in all I'm happy and I like it here.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

CNA is always looking for people (the engineering department). I have CNA's ads all over Canada and even in States but for some reason the people keep coming and leaving. I guess its the norm here in this part of the world.

"Freedom is a blessing and I am grateful to the State of Qatar for this realization"

Gypsy, very honest of you! That's how everything works in Newfoundland nevermind the CBC. It's the worst for nepotism in Canada (Quebec is not in my Canada). I think that's why CNA was chosen frankly speaking. Nepotism is the norm here thus the Newfoundland way is closer to the Qatari way. When nepotism works, it's great, when it doesn't work it's a disaster.

The CBC article however was based on a CNA survey and most of the employees surveyed are still here. So it's not just 'relative' it is real and comes form a CNA survey and emails from the very top. It is not just ESL so try not to be confused about the source. Reread the article and listen to the audio.

I am reminded of the Titanic. The main investor did not think that lifeboats were necessary and the captain did not think that slowing down to have a better look for icebergs was wise either.

I think CNA ought to reappraise the support system, being instructors, and slow down to look at the problems. There are more icebergs out there...

DoubleT, I've heard the EFL people aren't happy, but they are never happy. As for how CBC works, I used to work for them, so someone with a grudge against CNA-Q and a connection to CBC overblowing a story, doesn't surprise me in the least. Hell that's how CBC Newfoundland gets ALL of its stories.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

Yes PM I did read your thread about the growing process. I do not accept it as an adequate excuse for misbehaviour.

Management problems start at CNA Newfoundland. There is no union representation in Qatar and management, most of whom come from Newfoundland campuses, has seized that opportunity to act any way they please.

Let me repeat: most of management comes from the campuses in Canada.

It is not a growth problem at all.

I study at CNA-Q(engineering). I don't know anything of a survey or any sort of harrasment of Managers on any of the faculty. The only thing I know is that the college is really short on instructors/staff for the engineering department as most of the old instructors have finished their contracts and have decided not to renew. I've spoken to some of them before they left and they told me they weren't happy at how the college were running things, as they keep changing the courses and programs whenever the retards(sorry but thats what we at CNA call them) at QP complains about a course or a program being to long for their sponsored students. Anyway the only thing I'm concerned about is why the college keeps hiring EFL instructors when I heard that we have more than 100 EFL instructors already =/ (maybe wrong on this info as I heard about it a semester ago).

Why aint no body talk about CHN-Q (CHN University in Qatar from Holland). I want ya'll to know about CHN-Q. It's a dumb place full of dumb; ignorant studnets and teachers alike. Seriously, what a sorry place.

http://www.chn.nl/default.asp?objectID=725

"uncleshark", there are many reasons why CNA was chosen. It is not because it is the 'best' school in Canada. (That's not to say it's the worst in Canada because it is not that either.)

There are MANY bitter employees right now. Most are suffering silently out of fear of reprisals from management. Don't minimize the problem, it will not go away. Deal with it in a mature honest manner. Ask employees outside of you drinking buddy social group about issues at CNA. Your testimonial evidence is not worth anything at all and does a disservice to the intelligence of the readers of the Qatar Living Forum.

Listen to what's going on. The survey was taken recently and the employees are not 'former'. Everyone can see through your thin veneer of implausible denial.

Since there is no bad press about other Canadian rooted institutions your comments on that subject are irrelevant. If there is bad press you have not provided links to substantiate your claim.

Overall you don't represent CNA well at all.

CNA employees and managment should be honest, admit there are problems, solve them and show Qatar and Canada that the Newfoundland system can handle criticism in a positive manner.

Gypsy, you did not speak to me. I don't think it's funny at all.

What you write is ludicrous - a cousin of an ESL teacher who works for CBC wrote the article?

Yeah, that's how the CBC works, all hearsay from relatives

HA HA HA HA HA HA

Perhaps you miss kissing Cod?

nice spot, but alot of people there seem to think there are three city's on earth, New York, Paris, and Toronto. It's really pretty funny. Ontario has got alot of great colleges, so do other provinces.

When filling the void for vocational training in Qatar, the state reviewed application from interested college's all over North America. Yes, even Humber and Ryerson. The final decision was CNA.

The press is having a field day with old information and bitter former employees. I'm surrounded my many CNA-Q staff, most acknowledge that this is getting blown way out of proportion. Bad press like this could just as easily get ahold of any institution here in doha that has roots in canada.

gig 'em aggies!!

Spoke to a few teachers from CNA-Q last night and I guess this is the work of a disgruntled former EFL teacher with a cousin who works for CBC. Everyone thinks it's pretty funny.

Witzmotr, you seem to have a bit of a problem with Atlantic Canadians, not to burst your bubble or anything, but people from outside the T.O. are not the uneducated hicks you think we are. Our insitutions have very high standards and are quite reknowned. Maybe if you ever got off Younge Street you'd realize that.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I graduated in Dec from college...its not a big deal...we hold graduations three times a year back in the states...dec, may and august..

how can they be graduating before time scarlett?

Did they go to the US and took summer classes I doubt

I thought it was in March/April.

I'm glad to hear that the American schools in EC are insisting that students meet the same requirements as their parent institutions. I can't comment on whether CNA-Q has this standard but I can say that if it does, then there is no point in ever hiring a graduate from CNA-NL since they are definitely NOT ready for an entry level position in the western job market. I wonder what approach the University of Calgary will take--that is an institution with a very solid reputation and (I think) operates outside of the QF mandate.

The biggest problem is the culture of "entitlement" that the nationals have come to expect. Even expat students (who should have no expectation of entitlement) are drawn into this when they see scholarships and prizes intended only for nationals and all their hard work not adequately recognized or affirmed.

Still, it is good to have expats in these post-secondary programs. They really help raise the bar in the classroom and serve to model some good study skills.

I am able to get a good job in the public sector in Afghanistan I am heading home for good.

Anyways PM whats your research area?

History of Science? History of medicine? or what?

it was a position at one of the labs not a faculty position. In order to be faculty you need to have a PhD or max you can become a lecturer/instructor. I was never offered a faculty position as I dont have a PhD.

Yeah Something is definitely missing and that is a PhD Degree in my credentials.

Moreover I dislike teaching for myself and I hated being a TA. Though checking exam papers was the best part of being a TA as you get paid by hours.

Getting a PhD doesnt automatically grants you a position in the academia or in research. I have met grads from MIT who happened to be Post Docs waiting for their chance. Some chances never come.

24 hours library, no place to sit as the whole library is full, writing papers, presentations, orals, trying to get publications, professors giving stipends. reading those crazy journals and databases,

spending all night in the labs, students trying to meet the deadlines, writing proposals to get research grants, TA-ship, attending conferences with profs.

All these memories are still fresh in my mind.

FYI I was offered a job at one of the universities based in Education City, I did not accept it, not because the pay was less, it was because I dont want to see myself working in the lab for the next 30 years.

I am getting less pay than what was offered to me at Education City.

that we should be asking is will the students from the Qatar Campuses be able to outclass or be at par with the students from the parent Campuses

For this have to wait for some time but not for long............

I have read the responses by the students and the faculty. Nothing special just every one is trying to defend their plant and wants them to wait till the day it bears fruit. So guys lets wait for the fruit and see whether this genetically modified plant is able to bear sweet fruit or. Cant think ahead as I can see the gardeners with axes coming towards me.

(I am done here)

I AM a graduate of Texas A&M univerisity in Texas...and I have a bit of knowledge about the campus here...what that moron wrote is full of flaws and personal views...

I believe in research, facts and figures

I can speak for at least TAMQ in that the curriculum is EXACTLY like that of the Texas based college, Texas A&M University....and I mean down to teaching Texas history. Whoever wrote that article has no clue what it means to be in the education industry. The students at TAMQ are extremely intelligent, highly motivated and will be an immediate asset to wherever they choose to work.

For the articule to say that the Emir and HH Sheikha Mozza are pretentious, is ludicrous. They are the most forward thinking leaders of society in today's world, certainly in this part of the world. Sheikha Mozza has lead the Middle Eastern world in allowing freedoms never even considered before, for the women of the area. The young women and men that are at TAMQ have worked very hard to get where they are and will continue to produce quality work and research. All of which will reflect back on the foresight of these two leaders.

Never believe everything you read...just like you should never believe everything you hear. Research it..then make statements...and I don't mean just look on line...go to the universities and check it out...

Knox - that was an interesting article. Thanks.

...

Don't worry about your lack of knowledge. Ontarians are not aware of anything outside of the center of the universe "Toronto" either ;)

CNA is better than the majority of Ontario Colleges mainly because the immigration boom into Ontario has watered down the quality of the student body - however the same number of students still graduate with the same average grades. Ontario industry has responded to the lower quality by forcing applicants to write basic competency tests in their major in order to prove they actually know the material. So just how good are some of the Ontario colleges now?

There have been other articles as well but I do not keep a record of everything I read.

"A good example of what can happen when modernity is faked can be found in Qatar, where The Emir, HH Shiekh Hamad bin Khalifa, and one of his spouses,HH Sheikha Mozza, became enamored with the idea of creating a Harvard-like educational atmosphere in a land that is a desert of thought and culture and a center of Wahhabi Islamic fundamentalism. Their billion-dollar ventures with Weill Cornell Medical College, the Rand Corporation, Texas A&M University, and Carnegie Mellon University stand today as an embarrassment. Nowhere near enough qualified Qatari or Gulf Arab students have been found, nor have foreigners, even when offered full scholarships, joined what in effect are gated communities in a society living in the 18th century."

I have made some itsy bitsy corrections.

The origina article can be found here

http://www.nysun.com/article/48001?page_no=2

i'd be very interested in readin it..

now I have to find that article about the Education City. Hope you like it. brb

trust me...

and as far as the comment you put "isn't it true that most of the people who come here dont have great jobs back home." that is a bunch of sour grapes from somewhere. The majority of staff, at least at TAMQ, is comprised of extremely high quality professors and staff.

" Similarly the Texas A&M University is forcing its professors and faculty to have a 2-3 years stint in the Qatar Campus. No professor wants to come to Qatar as there is no research going on here at the moment and it is difficult to find researchers (Grad Students). So the Qatar Foundation is giving lucrative and mouth watering grants to the researchers but still the efforts are not bearing fruits."

Ok, this statement needs some serious work here Knox...check out the situation before you speak,or you'll end up eating a lot of crow...We have a LOT of professors that choose to come to TAMQ with the full knowledge that there are no grad students available..perhaps if you would LOOK into a situation before you speak, you'd find out that TAMQ is just NOW about to graduate their FIRST class of Engineers, just this year(4 of them this Dec...I believe 3 of those are women). TAMQ is working on setting up a graduate program...in case you bothered to check out your facts...which obviously you didn't...it takes time to set up programs like this in a totally different country. I, for one, am EXTREMELY proud of TAMQ for what they have accomplished in the short amout of time they have been in Qatar.

also...a lot of the professors that choose NOT to come over to Qatar do so for family reasons..plain and simple. Again..get your facts straight.

If you want to know more..contact me and I can fill you in on EXACTLY what's going on..so you can get the REAL info, not just gossip and sour grapes.

Bloody hell CNA-Q sounds like my work, so good to know that another company here operates in such a hap hazard and ramshackle fashion.

I think the above account will probably ring true all over Qatar.

I would love to know how and why companies can spend millions of pounds of complexes, technology and staff yet so utterly fail to look after their staff or have any clue about running a company, See Qatar airlines for another prime example.

It would seem in the Gulf no one has a clue.

All the gear and absolutely no idea.

Personally I believe that Education City is still in the initial phase and it has a long way to go before the Qatar based universities are recognised as Research oriented institutions and for that the laws need to be changed as for many scientists and researchers the exit permit and sponsorship system are unimaginable.

I agree with wizmotr that CNA ia not a renowned college. Though I have been to Canada only once but I do know about Humber, Sheridan and couple others but never heard of CNA. Maybe its because I was in Toronto and didnt venture outside

Its not my thinking that matters. What actually matters is the views, thinkings and ambitions of the students. The problem is that most of the sponsored students already have jobs even before they are admitted to the universities. Their tuition is paid plus every other extra curricular activity. The problem arises when they graduate as they dont have to do anything to find themselves a job.

The thing is that the EC policies are destined towards students without any motivation and competition.

I for a fact and all my other friends had to get really good grades in order to be selected by the employers. Even many others had to show their skills at work.

You take out competition and motivation and you know the results.

I for one find it a bit of a pity that these 'Mickey Mouse' institutions ( I hesitate to call them universities)are allowed to fleece the local guys and gals.

I would also point out that 50% of the value of going onto tertiary education is to go and live away from home in a different city/country whilst studying and attend the 'university of life' for a while

"only mad dogs and englishmen go out in the midday sun"

isn't it true that most of the people who come here dont have great jobs back home. I'd say that if I get a good job in the public sector. I will not think twice before handing over my resignation. Similarly the Texas A&M University is forcing its professors and faculty to have a 2-3 years stint in the Qatar Campus. No professor wants to come to Qatar as there is no research going on here at the moment and it is difficult to find researchers (Grad Students). So the Qatar Foundation is giving lucrative and mouth watering grants to the researchers but still the efforts are not bearing fruits.

Ridiculous call it pathetic

litteratuer, please could you paste the email here.

Thanks

--nigel

I think most of the complaints come from the ESL teachers. But ESL complains about everything, everywhere anyway. You can't take them seriously.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I work at CNAQ and wouldn't call the atmosphere "poisonous". The admin appears to try to solve certain issues but, as a whole, the 'machine' doesn't run as it should. I enjoy my job and my fellow colleagues but anyone in management seems to be dropping the ball far more than they should. That being said, they say improvements are forthcoming, but lets hope that is not measured in 'Arab time' as it will end up losing staff and getting a very poor reputation here and abroad. The concenesus of all those I deal with everyday is that we would never be here if it wasn't for a good buck and the ability to travel. Nobody I know is here to better their career or to obtain real job satisfaction. Anybody who thinks the school is up to par with a real Canadian school is sadly mistaken...but we all put up with it for that pay stub every-other Tuesday:P

Latest news....the president of the college has issued a college wide mail on people to chill and that he has started something to set things right!!! the news has picked up momentum and is also appearing in local media..

smile..it never hurts..

(the other person)

yup..that inside story is still floating around..and what I have gathered up is that

1. no job description

2. no real appraisal

3.no promotion system...if u like me then I can be president even if there 10 more qulaified people

4. lot of favortism

5. lack of calrity in lots of things..

*strictly confidential sources...

smile..it never hurts..

(the other person)

I am intimate about the affairs at CNA-Q. Currently, I don't think the atmosphere is poisonous. But I have been working in the Gulf at many similar companies and have heard worse things. So I'm low maintenance and happy with most things (or, my expectations are quite low). Not much can bug me (unless I am fired by the company) But other employees may feet irate.

The survey and the CBC News story sound dated. It sounds like they are describing the atmosphere before a certain troublesome and unqualified dean was fired last Spring. She created a lot of poison that sounds like what the confidential survey and CBC is talking about: irrational decisions, unequal treatment, turf battles, not-sharing info, fear, etc. But she has been gone since the Spring this year. Many CNA-Q employees shared this same feeling: when her name plate came off her office door, it was the same as when the statue fell of Sadam Hussein in Baghdad. Many Iraqis cheered then and many employees cheered now when the dean left our college.

Compared with other colleges? I heard that at Qatar University a Canadian teacher was fired because he criticized the curriculum there too harshly. The curriculum and the way they were teaching it were pretty bad but nobody wanted to admit it. Many others at QU told me afterwards that they were sorry this teacher left b/c he did what a lot of others wanted to do (but were scared to do.)

Well I happen to work at CNAQ and I think what's important to remember is that there are over 500 employees I believe and different departments. I think some depts are struggling more than others, and I have heard many negative comments in the time I have been there, but I think it's safe to say I have heard that everywhere I've worked at in the middle east! I happen to think that there is some major room for improvement, but as we all know, progress is slow in the middle east. I think it's best to "suck it up" and stick to my motto: Another day, another riyal!

This is the first I've heard of this. From my experience with the teachers they are competeing right now to resign their contracts. The vast majority really love Qatar and the College. I believe this is really really old news.

Wizmotr, I'm from Canada and I never heard of any of the Colleges you just mentioned. Maybe you should stick your head out of Ontario sometime and realize the rest of Canada has much to offer as well.

"You don't have to like me for who I am but we'll see what you're made of by what you make of me." Ani Difranco

I work at CNA-Q. The working environment is pleasant in my area. I've heard a few rumours about people with issues with management, but from my understanding, the information is pretty old. The same is with the results of this survey, the information is not current. The college has since made enormous efforts to deal with this, and from what I can tell, these are the stories of the colleges growing stages, when they first moved over here. I think that can be expected when an institution first opens in a foreign country. I'm sure much of the feedback from that survey were from employees voicing concerns in the college's early years.

I thought all of this was history!! :)

I know lots of instructors who are or who have been at CNA-Q. There is a lot of dissatisfaction in the ranks. Its not so much with each other as with the Admininstration and the way that Management treats them. I understand that CNA-Q is having a hard time recruiting in Canada right now and it is also affecting the way CNA is viewed by other Canadian Colleges and Universities. I had actually been offered a position with them here (I was teaching at a post-graduate institution in Canada) and I turned them down because they could not answer simple questions.

Is there someone working there in QL ... Y don't they enlighten us of what is happening there ???/ What about other colleges in qatar .. how is the working conditions there ? CNA-q is very good when it comes to pay ..and stuff...

CNA-Q has junior college status. I hoe they can resolve these worrying issues.

_______________________________________________________

Love is the answer...

Guys, you know what, CNA-Q is still doing better in all arenas than

CHN-Q. Now CHN University in Qatar is what you call a truly sorry place. At CNA-Q dedicated professionals feel threatened by administration, well at least CNA-Q has professionals, CHN-Q is full of Mojojojos.

Seriously, CHN-Q is a ridiculously crappy university. CNA-Q is far better than CHN-Q. For those of you who dont know of CHN-Q please have a look at this sorry place.

http://www.chn.nl/default.asp?objectID=725

That's because the same guy writes Qatar Journal...

The same thing is on Qatar journal too....Haa how ridiculous

Being a Canadian, I'd never heard of CNA before considering coming to Qatar. BCIT, SAIT, NAIT, a lot of the Ontario Colleges like Fanshawe, George Brown, Sheridan--those are colleges that have stature!

This is really shocking for a university of CNA stature.