The Obedient Wife Club

-Soweee... double postie -

Agreed with flor1212 as the Holy Scriptures say.

"Love, Honour and obey" - sigh! At some point in time, hubby'll probably assume someone died and made him king and then someone might really die. :0(

/So, I'll stay right where I am. Better safe than sorry.

Wll flor, maybe those precious gems would prefer their husbands to obey them as much as they obey their husbands...instead of being a precious gem...;)

they have a wrong belief because religion should make them a good person and not the other way around (in marital relationship). If a person truly follow the commandments, it means if there will be conflict (as no relationship had non), it can also be resolved through their belief! And as I sad, women were commanded to obey their husband as much as men were commanded to regard their spouses like a precious gem!

well flor, fact is, that not everybody is religious. And trust me, I have seen religious people treating each other badly just like some non religious people do.

is based on religious obedience. It can't be separated. What I am driving at is, if we only let he commandments rule our marital life, then obedience of woman to her man is as commanded in the same way that man was commanded to respect and treasure his wife. Each has his/her own responsibilities in raising the family. But sadly, laws of men tries to outdo HIS commandments so the reason why we have a lot of marital problems right now!

flor, are you talking about religious obedience?

If you are an animal or a child maybe then obedience is needed.

Respect and obedience are two different concepts.

You do not have to obey to gain respect and you do not have to have respect to be obeyed.

of obedience is not what we are thought to before. That is why theer are so may conflicts nowadayas, because of such misconceptions. We all play our dinstinct role in this world, Somewhere, somehow and somewhat, you need to OBEY! If you practice respect, then in more than many ways, you have to OBEY! But again, not blind obedience, but who draws the line, the commandments!

this world is an universal club of obedient husbands...what's needed is a refuge for battered husbands:-/

it's so pathetic..if my man will just give me problems i'd prefer to divorce him than live life a living hell..

maybe the wives are so fed up witht heir husband that's why they left them..martyrdoom doesn't have a place in this world now..

One day I will make you an Irish breakfast with soda bread. The best ever. xo

lol same her cooked by me only on the weekends..:)

Weekends only love (cooked by him) :-)

Cabbage what happened to the full English Breakfast? I guess there are no Obedient wives left to cook that any more?..lol

Hi –

Sorry but to obey is to be compliant or in some cases submissive.

To respect is to show - esteem, admiration and to be courteous and kind.

Me and you are singing from the same song sheet then:-)

Breakfast in this house is not complicated - cereal and toast lol xo

Cabbage call it what ever you like, Respect, partnership but at the end of the day its getting the work done. Is what I was refering too.

I do more or less all those things as your hubyb except the Breakfast bit, As the Breakfast is the most important meal of the day, the lady of the house makes sure its done properly. I'm observing and learning with an L plate on the back..:)

not in words. Being obedient means respect. We respect our parents, elders (even elder brother or sisters) by obeying them. I beg to disagree that we just respect and not obey. Please, check your vocabulary. We are expected to obey orders as we were raised to be obedient. As I have mentioned above, being obedient to your hubby doesn't make you less and doesnt make the relationship fail, this is if the man knows how to treasure the woman and treat her properly as wife.

rofl - well what can I say errrrrrrrrrr.........

It works very well!

Seriously though, just a few examples - he gets up at 5 every day to prepare the breakfasts, I supervise the gathering of the school stuff. He takes them to school 3 days out of 5, I take them 2.

He cleans the shoes whilst I do the laundry - he helps with homework whilst I watch the news.

What can I say - it's equal and it's great :-)

Great response, but I am quite interested in your comment..

"I may cook most dinners - I am home before him so that makes sense- however, he does something for me in return"

Can you please elaborate - for purely educational purposes ..

Obdience is something we teach animals and sometimes children.

It is not something we ask from another adult, especially somebody we love.

A partnership is about love, loyalty, friendship,mutual respect and helping each other.

NO one person should be in 'charge' or 'be the dominant one'.

If my husband reminds me to pay the phone bill and I do it - I am not obeying him - I am simply paying a bill that we have both 'run up’ in order for us not to be cut off.

If my husband take the rubbish out whilst I wipe down the counter tops - we are both working together.

I may cook most dinners - I am home before him so that makes sense- however, he does something for me in return.

We don't have a list of jobs nor do we keep a 'balance sheet'. It works out in the end and the most important thing is - our children have learnt an important lesson by observing this - (a) men can and do housework (b) men can and do treat women with respect (c) women can also treat men with respect and very, very rarely do they see us bicker over anything.

I hate to call it obedience - I prefer to call it 'pulling together' to enable a happy and calm home.

Nobody needs to be "obedient"...respect is all that matters.

If one has to be obedient, something is wrong. IMHO

As obedience means to do something simply because the other person commands it. Obedience is also connected to authority figures, which either husband or wife should never be to each other. IMHO

As marriage is an equal partnership.IMHO

to an honorable man who respect his wife!

Feminism has suffered more setbacks due to women who don't understand what the whole movement is about rather than by male chauvinists.

We just want to ask all the wives to be obedient wives so that there will be fewer problems in our society," such as infidelity, divorce and domestic violence,

"Obedient wife means they are trying to entertain their husbands, not only taking care of their food and clothes," Maznah said.

So back to the OP. Is being an Obedient wife a good thing or a bad thing. I personally think it a very good thing as long as the Husbands are also submissive and obedient by helping out their wives.

I simply chose a date, perhaps I should have started in the mid-1800's which was when the first feminist movements started, the fact was that while there were exceptions to the rule, most women were not able to work in many other fields. Women were only allowed to start practicing medicine in the 1850's and then only at a handful of schools, and never with men. As for owning your own property, normally only widows could do that.

But I'm sure you know ALL of that Cabbage since you're so happily running around spitting on all these women.

I forgot my Grandmother who ran a small Hotel on her own for many years.

My Mum; the farmers wife who ran a home, raised children whilst working on the farm beside my Dad.

Great hard working people who I loved and admired greatly.

Oh, i forgot my friend Tim's grandma who worked at Smith & Nephew for 30 years. :o)

obedientwivies we can get luck by chance otherwise no chance.nonstop discusion will ended for now!thnx

Not to mention all the female Doctors, Dentists, Scientists, Nurses, Teachers, Secretaries, Shepherdesses and countless over jobs women have always done ever before this womderful cut off point - 1940 :-)

I think they should be celebrated and applauded.

Joan of Arc

Florence Nightingale

Marie Curie

Maria Isabella Boyd (Spy)

Marta Hari

Grace Hopper

Yes ofcourse there was Queen Victoria who ruled the British Empire..:)

Lots of women did many jobs before the 1940’s and many after too.

I am sure these women would not want to be called prostitute, maid or nanny.

http://www.articleswave.com/articles/famous-women-scientists

http://www.creativequotations.com/women-az.html

http://www.mattia.ca/women/women.html

http://www.lkwdpl.org/wihohio/figures.htm

http://hubpages.com/hub/Freedoms-Sisters--Twenty-Great-Arfri

What am I quoting? :S

polkadots most of the women out there are still like you described then with exception of few who get to the top. Still a long way to go before there is true equality of Genders. Gender discrmination goes on every where!

Ha!.... there you go quoting again,... Well I am talking from experience in struggling up the ladder and remaining there, we can ask for equal pay, equal opportunity but when comes to equal delivery of the job many a times we fall behind, owing to many reasons all of them genuine, but when we do deliver we need the equal pay as well, also it is doubly tiresome for a woman to climb the corporate ladder, It can be comparable to taking the stairs and the lift to get to the 21st floor, when a 100 men make it, only 1 woman makes it in one piece, it is that inequality I am pointing out to you, but to realize that you need to climb the stairsyourself , live the double life of super mom both at office and home!

Yes Pilgrims until the contraception pills was discovered most women in the west also refrained from sex before marriage? ..:)

The one that allows me to work at all polka. Or did you forget that the only positions open to women before the 1950"s was prostitute, maid and nanny.

Pilgram,Which part in the corporaate laddar are you currently placed and which war did the Feminists help you win to get you to that position?

I'm sorry Polka, when did I claim to be the poster girl for feminist campaigns? Like every other woman I'm still struggling to find equality.

But at least I have the decency to credit and thank the women who fought so hard before me to give me what I have, and not "spit" on them, like you and cabbage.

Equality of Genders is still a long way away.

Only recently the Queen or England and the Head of the commonwealth changed the accession to the throne law irrespect of gender.

I know from my personal experience that women get much more say in certain aspects compared to men.

Only recently in the UK that the men and women retirement age was made the same, where as until April 2010 it was 60 for women and 65 for men..

Pilgram, I am still waiting for you to point out to me the exact rung in the corporaate ladder where you found equality both at office and home.Please provide the example where you really did find the exact balance from living it,not copy paste from someone's life, what you did to acheive the balance, then yours would be the poster story for all feminist campaigns!

There is only one real tragedy in a woman's life. The fact that her past is always her lover, and her future invariably her husband.

frenchiemen. In reality most men are selective listeners and will pay full attention to conversation which involves their interest only otherwise they will pretend to be good listen. Which is why they are happily married!

The rest of the men who are sensitive, caring and patient and good listeners all have boy friends..:)

Brit, I've read articles by the author's wife (Liz Jones) in which she says she hasn't had sex with her husband in years and he's cheated on her several times. While those two make good reading for the daily mail crowd, I wouldn't actually give any credence to what they write.

Milkybarkid--Plenty of men do, and they are (or will be) happily married, as I am.

frenchiemen guess men dont have that ability which makes then inequal..:)

Britexpt.. I guess its like Equality gone wrong! in the above article..:)

I know a good friend of mine coincedently he is Canadian also. Who is a happy house husband here in Qatar. He is almost a clear image of a typical expat stay home mom. He drives a 4x4 and drops and picks up the kid from school, does the house chores and cooking and so on.

I agree with tinkerbell. Women are not complex as individuals any more than men are. All one needs to do is listen, but the problem is that men are too impatient and distracted.

May I ask you ladies to take time and read the attached link...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-398998/How-feminism-destroyed-real-men.html

Tinker thats the idea. to confuse you women even more than you are already.

Men are so good at it..:)

There is saying by Rumi me think that to understand a man it only requires one women but to understand one women it takes hundred men. Women are complex creatures and should be respected for that..:)

I think men and women can never be equal until there is a women version of Viagra available and until men also can have a monthly red days..:(

Until then women and men should just be obedient wives and husbands..:0) and stop pretending to be equal..:) Just like the difference in the physical make of the two genders there should also be some clear difference in what men and women can and cannot do!

Polkadots... I just wanted to hear that... you said it all... we men, it seems, are doomed either way...sorry state of affairs for us men...;(( now I hate (to be taken in lighter vein) these feminists, they just make a simple life of two so complicated, which in my opinion if are understanding enough can lead a very peaceful, happy & an allround successful life...:))

So you believe that you have no equality in climbing the corporate ladder as a married woman with a family YET you hate the feminists who are fighting for you to get that equality.

Are you jealous of them for fighting for what you can't or refuse to fight for? Or do you just resent them for achieving what you haven't been able to?

Feminism is different things to different people.

Simply put, it is a philosophy that wants social, political and economic equality for women and freeing both men and women from clearly defined gender roles.

Whilst I believe that we have major inroads into equality, more needs to be done especially in educating.

However, I do also believe that many women play the equality card when it suits them. In other wards, they want to have their cake and eat it :o)

Happygolucky,

If you love me to bits you are a Pansy,

If you don't, You are a SOB,

If you don't work hard, you lack Drive,

If you do, you are a Workaholic,

And if u don't bring in the Moolah

You are treating me cheap,

If you work hard for the money,

It's the above , and life is not only about money....

You need to find that exact spot right in the middle [no deviations pls],Be a superman ,.... whatever,...while I remain the plain Jane fighting for my right to remain so.

True Pilgram There are, I am talking about the nonexistent equality which I as a married lady with family face in climbing the corporate larder, Tell me Pilgram, which rung have you reached?

Twins

"but that last bit of equality that makes the scale truly balance always eludes us"

Actually I don't think it does elude us. Most women are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves these days, with or without a man.

OK Britex, let's forget the Cuban's mean thighs, tell us about your views on Feminism :-)

Ok so a workaholic man devoids his women intimacy, quality time, short on pulling his weight at home, etc which means that a man who is able to spend more time at home and able to do all that would be preferred and avoid the possibility of a divorce ...but then I also read sometime back that men who spend more time at home are also not much appreciated by the woman. If both are true then I am completely confused... is there an optimum time to be spent by men at home which we are talking of and if that be, then what is that.

"Exactly Tinker, "we" again, not daddy!and "we" need to put up with them till they learn."

Don't be obtuse Polka, of course the father has to teach them as well.

Tinks,"if we women know that the men in our lives are incapable of doing it then we need to learn to help ourselves"

.....and learning to help ourselves to get on with our lives is where the balance tips in favor of the man,...We need to campaign for equality of opportunities , equality in vote, equality in constitutional right, but that last bit of equality that makes the scale truly balance always eludes us, MEN PLEAASE enlighten us with your valuable comments other than silent readings!

She could cook too and roll a mean Havana on her thighs.... but I won't go into that :o)

Lol, Pilgram women enjoy a crowd in mini skirts even outside the Wimbledon courts and that has nothing to do with even lifting a racket! Another area that need equality, I must say.

Britex, I am sure your Cuban shotputter can beat any man in 5 or even 6 sets straight!

Agree with TB Polka, Why can't you teach your kids that? Why do you need other women to do that?

"Also jobs that require higher muscular strength and agressive male hormones are best left to individuals genitically blessed with such cappacities the lovable MAN."

Lots of women are also blessed with high muscular strength. Why should we discriminate against them? I know lots of women that could outrun, and out lift your average guy.

Pro-choice is a huge issue Brit that involves more than just feminists. As for women on the front lines, historically there have been loads of cases of women on the front lines, and now there are plenty of examples, I don't see why women can't be on the front lines if they wish.

And if a woman plays the same amount of time as a man at Wimbledon and earns the same crowd (which I'm pretty sure in tennis they do) then they deserve the same prize money.

"It is upto to US working women to teach our kids that MOMMY is not going to be around all the time so you need to learn to be independant"

Exactly Tinker, "we" again, not daddy!and "we" need to put up with them till they learn.

So we are basically saying that feminism is about equality and I would agree with that.

So, how do we then tackle the issues of Pro-choice, women fighting on the front line and most importantly women playing five sets at Wimbledon for the same prize money.

The fact that we need women to have equal pay, opportunities, for the same work done as men is a basic necessity, and I support that cause. But campaigning and reality is far apart, you can ask for equal pay when I am the manager but I will not be applying for the job as the long hours required will be beyond my means., for how much ever my husband “helps “ with the cooking and home works, my kids will still say “Mommy I need beef sand which for snack tomorrow”, Mommy, I have English CAS test tomorrow,”Mommy where is my book?,”Mommy I am sick….

Which part of feminists campaigning will teach a child that both parents are equal and that they need to depend on Daddy as well?...And come to think of it do I need such a campaign if it ever did exist?

Also jobs that require higher muscular strength and agressive male hormones are best left to individuals genitically blessed with such cappacities the lovable MAN.

I've never met a feminist who wants to be a man Brit. If a woman wants to be a man then her issue isn't feminism.

Agree with Tink. I wouldn't stay with a workaholic husband. Or one that wasn't willing to pull his weight at home.

Divorcing just because a man is workaholic sounds absurd to me. What could be the concern of a wife from such a husband??

I went into a feminist bookshop the other day.

But there was no humour section.

"that's a stupid lie spread about by men who can't handle strong independent women "......

Well said Pilgram...mmmm august...

waiting for your joke! :)

Its becoming too serious!

A very interesting debate..enjoying it as a reader..

"That is what feminism is about. Not turning women into men, that's a stupid lie spread about by men who can't handle strong independent women and the stupid women who believe them"

But isn't it also what many feminists believe ?

I don't think most men do have both easily nowadays Polka. Now most men are expected (or should be expected) to pull equal weight at home and in the office, the same as their wives. Why do you think so many women divorce their workaholic husbands?

Feminism is about giving equal chances to both, meaning if both sexes are willing to put in the work required then they should have the same opportunities. A woman shouldn't receive less pay for the same position simply because she is a woman, she shouldn't be passed over for a promotion she deserves simply because she is a woman, she shouldn't be banned from being a police officer, a fire fighter, a pilot or in the military because she is a woman. If she can do the job she should be allowed to. That is what feminism is about. Not turning women into men, that's a stupid lie spread about by men who can't handle strong independent women and the stupid women who believe them.

I think thats exactly what Pilgram is talking about... equality in the sense equal sharing of things by both partners...not that one is stressed to the limits while the other just sits and enjoys watching TV... that portrays a typical man woman mindset that woman is supposed to cook and take care of house & children, something like a job very precisely cut out for her and only her... I dont think that would sustain (and should not sustain too IMO) in the present day with the mindset and thinking present day men & women grow up with and generally are in acceptance of.

Pilgram, your below question shows that now you are slowly catching on to my point

"Why can't a woman who isn't married and has no children climb the corporate ladder?"

Precisely my friend, that’s my question, If true equality did exist then a woman should be able to climb the corporate ladder happily married, with as many kids as she wants.why should only I, as a woman, have to choose between the both , whereas the man normally can have both easily?

And may I also point that to be any where on the rungs of a corporate ladder, a married lady is amply helped by her husband and kids unless she is living in a now extinct joint family system.

The feminist movement that will make your husband help you out with all of those things polka. Why should just you handle all of those things? Why isn't your husband helping you?

Also, just because you've chosen to have a family doesn't mean other women will. Why can't a woman who isn't married and has no children climb the corporate ladder?

Pilgram, Equality????

I once worked in an office with my self and the manager being batch mates, ie with the same qualifications and years of experiences, He was unmarried yet and a Manager and going ahead, My post was just below his , married with three kids to raise and struggling with the height I have reached career wise, Now we both graduated from the best schools in the trade and are at par in abilities. A typical work day for the manager ends at 3.30 pm though will leave office any time from 3.30 to 6.30 pm, go home , relax, log back on to the office and carry on online till whenever he feels sleepy. Mine has to end at 3.30pm hang around till 4.30 for anything, rush back home, bathe, get on with 2 homeworks, cook, [maid will do the rest]speak with hubby about his day, supervise the days work of the maid and give her instructions for the next day[have not yet logged on to the office, so lagging in work by now....]get the kids to dinner and bed, sleep, wake up , make breakfast and lunch for kids and my self , put the war paint on and be at the office at 6. 45 AM, [Never got time to log on, take time to do a long distance skills up gradation course….etc], so you see, I sort of had reached the limit where I can ‘seem’ to have it all, family kids and career, where as for the male Manager life was much easier, wouldn’t have made much diff even if he were married.

Now tell me, which feminist movement will give me the equality I miss in my career, where I can have a good marriage, well brought up kids, and a flourishing career all rolled in to one?, which any normal hardworking man can and is achieving every day?

Can I now throw in a few Feminist jokes ?

"and I embraced men and women and all their nuances without judgement."

Cabbage you have done nothing but give judgment on this site against women. You "spit" on feminists, you say that "If you see a woman who thinks she has it all, there's a family that doesn't" you blame women for mens "plights". You are one of the most judgmental people on this site and your a hypocrite to say otherwise.

As for Polka, I do not believe that the hand the rocks the cradle needs to be a woman's and if you believe that feminists want to be men, then once again you know NOTHING about feminism. Feminists simply want equal rights and opportunities as men and not to be treated as less simply because they are women.

It's misconceptions like yours and cabbage's that have turned feminism into a dirty word.

Opinions are based on convenience (or wishful thinking ) and less on reality, hence the word ostrichitis. Smoking is bad for body as well as for mind, honey.

Cabbage,Congrats Lady, Though you try hard to make your accomplishments sound like cake walk, the HARD toil one needs to put in, the long hours, specially the extend of multitasking a woman needs to do, to accomplish so much as you have,which comes easily to a man is truly remarkable ,one needs to try the tight rope walk to truly appreciate how you have made it to the other side!

(I definitely don’t have a colorful CV like Cabbage'),

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1867954?page=1#ixzz1OWOHmRsa

Thank you for your thoughts - they are noted and respected.

I do not have a colourful CV....I have an average CV; similar to lot of women.

What I have done is managed a career and a home life that turned out to be successful and I embraced men and women and all their nuances without judgement.

Pilgram, Allow me a non Native English speaker to point out the true meaning of the sentence to you a Native English speaker [may I presume?]” I not the father has the last say in matters regarding my kids, being the guardian of my kids is enshrined in my …..”

Please note the word ‘Last Say’ meaning final decision, not negating the right of the other parent as you claim I have in your following sentence,” Well for starters, Polka, do you really believe that your husband has no right to decide things when it comes to your children? Well, then I hate to say it but you are far more feminist then most, as most feminists would say that men and women should have equal say in the raising of children. So perhaps you should go burn that bra of yours, or perhaps think before you speak.

I definitely don’t have a colorful CV like Cabbage, But run my own business here managing a male only workforce, raise 3 young kids, and am the sexy wife to my hubby, and NO I do not yet claim I am equal to a man, I am better in many ways , lesser in others, I am never in any sort of competition with my man or any other, so never have found the need to be comparatively equal. The liberation I enjoy is what I wish for to my sisters as well, so the sentence” True liberation should be the empowerment of ourselves where we have the guts to walk out of an abusive relationship and have the DRIVE to fend for ourselves and our kids and not fight tooth and nail for every cent of alimony for ourselves!!!It is understandable to expect the father to share HALF [JUST]of the cost of raising mutual offspring. “

Keeping the above posting in mind, how can you even come up with this accusation that “So Indian women face far more impediments and abuse than Western women, yet polkadots would like to keep them in that state. Sorry, but I've no respect for here there. If she's happy in her abused state then fine, but don't wish that on other women.”

A good argument is something I enjoy but your replies to mine are just ramblings and cooked up accusations, albeit in grammatically correct English.

What I have mentioned that the traditional hearth always belonged to the woman is NOT only true for India but the world over, Haven’t you heard ”The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world” Baring a few of the Home maker Daddies, the majority of the hands are still of the woman’s.

Let me spell out the gist of my postings to you for easy comprehension, I believe in the empowerment of women ,not maculating the woman but finding strength in keeping intact and accepting all the differences that make a woman W-O-M-A-N.

BTW, congrats to your pregnancy .Sorry for my late reply, I do not enjoy the liberty of[Gosh!Are the feminists watching?]unlimited net time whenever/as long as, I want to....

First of all congratulations on your pregnancy - I hope all stays well for you :-) A very exciting time for you all.

(But seeing as you're a stay at home mother (which is your prerogative) I wouldn't expect you to know anything about workplace conduct and what is right or wrong. How about you continue to get your information from sexist blogs and your husband and leave the rest of us girls to handle the real world.)

I am not a stay at home Mum - I have been in the workplace since I was very young - I actually had to work as a youngster on the farm I grew up on - I worked my way through college and then worked my way through University.

I finished my Masters whilst pregnant with number two child - took a break when number 3 and 4 came along but continued studying whilst raising four kids.

I have a job over here in Qatar - where I lead a team of 20 people - some men amongst that team and I also have a successful business back in the UK that I run (with help) from here :-)

I run a home (with help from my husband), a job and a business so I am hardly a – barefoot pregnant strapped to the kitchen woman with an inferiority complex that does not 'how to be in the workplace'. I have been very much part of the real world for at least the last 35 years.

You asked me to give you proof of my facts and I did so –sorry you seem to think they are from ‘sexist blogs’ or I have to ask my husband what to write. He would find that highly amusing.

I have enjoyed debating this issue with you:-)

LOL Brit, I may be an unholy, disgusting feminist monster, but I'm not a dirty, ungodly hippy. :P

Will you be disclosing the gender after the birth or will this be a gender neutral upbringing till the sprog can decide for itself :o)

I think the kittie katties will have their nose out of joint for awhile. Especially the eldest. She's too used to being Mommies little girl. :P

am sure Mr Pilgrim and kittie katties are ecstatic

Sorry for the little hi-jack:-D

Well first of all I don't think a blog that doesn't quote any sources is a reliable source. Not to mention a blog that is notoriously anti-woman.

And don't you think that the very fact that men are able to campaign for their rights, and raise there voices for injustices when it comes to child rearing and custody cases are a sign that things are becoming more equal? In the past children were given to the mother without a second thought, now, thanks to feminism and others who campaign for equality, men are being considered equal caregivers to women.

I don't blame men for anything, unless they are actively trying to keep me from doing things that I feel I have a right to do. You on the other hand seem to blame women for everything. It's male judges that chose the mothers over the fathers, and male judges who award alimony, not the other way around. If men are suffering in court than I'm afraid they have no one to blame but themselves as women only started become judges in the last 3 decades.

As for this nonesense:

"If men trade insults at work – heckle each other and use banter (which we all know they do) women who have gained equality in that workplace should put up and shut up – if you don’t like the heat get out of the kitchen."

There is a difference between joking around in the workplace with colleagues and insulting or verbally abusing a co-worker and the majority of women know the difference. You seem to expect women to take insults were men wouldn't. You wouldn't expect a black man to accept racist insults from his co-workers, why should you expect women to accept sexist one's?

But seeing as you're a stay at home mother (which is your prerogative) I wouldn't expect you to know anything about workplace conduct and what is right or wrong. How about you continue to get your information from sexist blogs and your husband and leave the rest of us girls to handle the real world.

hahahahaa.. britex.. naughty man :p

Let me be the first to congratulate you.. Any idea how it happened :o)

Will you be a Tiger Mum or the Mumsnet type ??

To answer your questions on feminism- equal rights etc.

www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/healthgeneral.html (men’s health)

http://www.google.com.qa/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CFYQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iadb.org%2Fen%2Fnews%2Fwebstories%2F2006-11-20%2Fleveling-the-retirement-age-for-men-and-women%2C3391.html&ei=RJfsTY6QKYvzrQfL99jdBQ&usg=AFQjCNHCiYPXZmITVf99a2CQTfj1fKi5Dw

(Difference in retirement age)

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article2124934.ece (the number of men fostering or adopting)

http://www.google.com.qa/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CFoQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthepost.ohiou.edu%2Fcontent%2Fother-side-american-education-system-biased-favor-girls&ei=15jsTcfJMonTrQed2M3gBQ&usg=AFQjCNEEIcAhmBKrNNKhtv5gqIVecPY40g

Men/Father organisations Tells a true story of how men are treated in the UK and especially the appalling....

www.coeffic.demon.co.uk/organiz.htm

www.guardian.co.uk/society/.../men-victims-domestic-violence

www.telegraph.co.uk/.../David-Willets-feminism-has-held-back-working- men.html

http://www.google.com.qa/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CC4QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fliteracymethods.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2F13521.pdf&ei=op_sTdLVKI3SrQffwI3fBQ&usg=AFQjCNFi3GNTNA2D9FWsZao2GGt9Jx_XqA

This above made very interesting reading as it not only defended women’s rights to work in coal mines – however it also described the working conditions they endured. Call me old fashioned (and you will) I find it hideous that anybody would want any gender to endure those conditions but I would have thought that women should support other women and children not to be employed in these conditions.

(When they give up the right to either get pregnant without the man being willing and start to take a man’s feelings into consideration when seeking a termination.

-I'm sure that will happen when all men are willing to help feed and cloth their children and not just leave the women in a lurch.

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1867954#ixzz1OUIAcEdR

I feel sad you seem to blame men for all of these problems –

Men continue to struggle for custody even when it’s the wife’s fault – Judges favour women over men and yet men can and do bring up children on their own successfully – yet there is still a disparity.

(When women who enter male orientated work places stop moaning and whining and stop shouting sexism when a man speaks to them in a way he would speak to a male colleague

-The issue is when men stop being professional, and I've heard men complain about other men being unprofessional or crass, so why can't women? Why do you hold women to a higher standard, or expect them to be thicker skinned than their male counterparts? )

Read more: http://www.qatarliving.com/node/1867954#ixzz1OUOEKwtr

If men trade insults at work – heckle each other and use banter (which we all know they do) women who have gained equality in that workplace should put up and shut up – if you don’t like the heat get out of the kitchen. Just as much as I think no woman should be ‘abused’ in the workplace men can also be bullied and ‘abused’ by women. When BOTH stop then it will be a level playing field.

This is my view on equal rights and as I have said before – there is no such thing as equal rights as we are not, nor will we ever be equal – why? Because both genders have specific roles and as much as those roles can be merged there comes a time when they have to be defined.

I do salute all the wonderful women who have stuck their neck out – but I would like to think they just did not do it for women but they did it for the better good for all mankind. Just as many men have fought for things to improve for all mankind.

Yup Xena, 5 weeks and counting.

"A good wife is perceived to be prim and proper — you just take care of the children — but not much is emphasised on fulfilling sexual needs of the husband. If he needs sex, obey him,” Rohaya Mohamad, the club’s vice-president told AFP."

reminds me of a friend of mine who told me that her prim and proper granny said to her, "Be a lady in the lounge and a whore in the bedroom" - my friend needless to say nearly fell over with shock;-p

Pilgrim.... 9months and extra support... are you in the family way?:-)Been a bit out of touch, so not up on the news...

Read more: http://qatarliving.com/node/1867954#ixzz1OUOm595c

LOL Happy. that's why they whined like little boys afterwards. :P

Pilgram....Brit was looking at wrong places...lol I have also seen them...:)

Pilgram...you know we men are so kind hearted and very observant when it comes to women....thats why they just did as many chin ups as you can else being half their size they would be afraid that something may go wrong with you...:)

LOL! Damn! I'm going to have to stop taking off my clothes!

How'd you know about those tattoo's Brit, I though they were well hidden. ;)

I must disagree.. I clearly recall the Canadian accent and tatoos..

Hell, I wondered where I'd met you..

You were the advisor on the set of G.I Jane .. weren't you ?

No they aren't happy, but neither are women cops. I've met some pretty tough chicks in my time who can lift more than most men and outrun them too. Hell, when I applied for the military I beat all the men in the run and managed to do as many chin ups as most of the men, despite being half their size. So I really hate it when other women think that all women are physically inferior to men, when that just isn't the case.

Pilgram... I thought so when you said 'I Know"... but looked for a re- confirmation because men cops aren't that bad overall...:)

LOL. One observation compared to 20 is hardly obtuse Brit! LOL.

Then, you are being just as obtuse as cabbage :o)

As I said Happygolucky, those are the cops I know. Since cabbage seemed to be basing ALL of her "facts" on her own observations (or from sexist websites) I figured I could throw in my own observation.

This one seems taking things rather far IMO:

"Most male cops I know weigh in at around 250 to 300 pounds and couldn't chase down a big mac, whereas the women are generally fitter and more capable".

TB, I understand what Indian women are facing, which is why I find Polkadots attitude so disgusting. I don't know how she can witness her fellow country women suffering and not want to change their plight, and even worse, spit on the women who do.

I think you ladies are mixing feminism , empowerment and human rights..

So Indian women face far more impediments and abuse than Western women, yet polkadots would like to keep them in that state. Sorry, but I've no respect for here there. If she's happy in her abused state then fine, but don't wish that on other women.

Wow. You girls really know absolutely nothing about women's rights and the feminist cause do you?

Well for starters, Polka, do you really believe that your husband has no right to decide things when it comes to your children? Well, then I hate to say it but you are far more feminist then most, as most feminists would say that men and women should have equal say in the raising of children. So perhaps you should go burn that bra of yours, or perhaps think before you speak.

As for cabbages list of conjecture and misinformation, I'll address them individually,

Female criminals serve less jail terms for same crimes

-Actually since the start of the feminist movement women and men have been serving pretty much equal jail times:

http://pwq.sagepub.com/content/10/3/240.abstract

and convictions for rape and sexual assault have gotten stricter (I'm sure you'd disapprove of that because feminists have fought for it).

Far more research and funding go into women's health than men's

-While I couldn't find any figures to prove this, the justification would be that women spend more on health care than men. However I would point out that millions if not billions went into the creation of Viagra, yet there is no alternative female based pill despite women complaining about difficulties in orgasming for centuries, also the millions that go into baldness cures, and other male related problems, and that cancer research gets the same amount of funding across the board regardless if it is breast or prostate. Healthcare is a business and it will go where the money is.

Education systems favour women over men

-Evidence? How? In what way? I can't find any kind of statistics to even remotely prove this, so I think you just made it up.

Women’s car Insurance is cheaper

-That's because women tend to get in fender benders small collisions, and not write off their cars. If men want cheaper insurance they can just drive more safely. You're grasping at straws here.

Women get more rights in divorce – even when they are in the ‘wrong’

-This is because of outdated and sexist ideas that women can't take care of themselves, however since the start of feminism more and more women are now the one's giving their husbands alimony and less women are getting full custody of children. All the trends point towards more equal rights in this area.

Far fewer shelters and help for men who are victims of domestic crime (still a taboo subject but the numbers are comparable if you look on web sites.)

-That is because historically men are less likely to seek help. You can't blame this on feminism. In fact, feminism may actually be a reason why abuse against men is actually being looked at now. So feminist's can be thanked for drawing attention to this issue.

Very little help for men who are victims of crime including sexual crimes

-Again, because men are less likely to go. Same reason as above. However, now more and more men are opening up and more help is available to them, now that they don't have to be the tough guys. If you would like to go back to a time when men couldn't come forward about this because of ridicule, then more power to you, however I would prefer men seek help when they need it.

Women can adopt and foster children when they are single –men are looked upon as ‘perverts’

-I've worked with Social Services for decades and never heard of a single woman adopting or fostering a child. However I do know of a divorced father of 3 (full custody of his kids) who fostered 2 children, and adopted 1. So frankly, unless you can provide statistics I call bullsh**.

There have been a few high profile cases where standards have been lowered in male orientated jobs (fire service – just one example), to increase number of women in them. This is dangerous and risks people’s lives.

-Please provide these cases. Most male cops I know weigh in at around 250 to 300 pounds and couldn't chase down a big mac, whereas the women are generally fitter and more capable.

When the majority of women stop aiming just for the boardroom and cushy office jobs and actually aim for hundreds of feet down in coal mines or 100 feet up in the air on building sites working as labourers in extreme heat or cold. (I know in some poor countries women do these jobs).

-You really know nothing about the feminist movement do you? How about you look at the women who fought to keep their factory jobs after World War II, or for the female coal miners who fought for equal pay. Or the women who fought for the right to go to medical school, to become welders, electricians, plumbers, etc. Jeez, they've made movies about this!

When they give up and automatically presume they have the right to have the children the majority of the time in divorce cases.

-This is pure assumption and not based on any facts. If this were true, why bother with custody battles at all.

When they give up the right to either get pregnant without the man being willing and start to take a man’s feelings into consideration when seeking a termination.

-I'm sure that will happen when all men are willing to help feed and cloth their children and not just leave the women in a lurch.

When the legal retirement age is the same and when men can take time off when a child is sick or has something on at school without being seen as a slacker.

-The legal retirement age is 65 for men and women. The next is conjecture and assumption based purely on your prejudices.

When women who enter male orientated work places stop moaning and whining and stop shouting sexism when a man speaks to them in a way he would speak to a male colleague

-The issue is when men stop being professional, and I've heard men complain about other men being unprofessional or crass, so why can't women? Why do you hold women to a higher standard, or expect them to be thicker skinned than their male counterparts?

I will then be able to say yes equal rights are fair and equal.

If equal rights also include that women work the same hours as men and have children on their own; consider these facts –

There are high levels of childhood obesity because women no longer cook healthy food for their offspring. They are busy being equal to men at work.

-Why blame women here? Why can't the men cook healthy food? Why do we allow these marketing giants who push unhealthy food to continue doing so?

High levels of incarceration (70% of serial killers were raised by single mothers).

-Why are 70% of serial killers fathers running out on their responsibilities? Perhaps if the women had more opportunity to work and make enough money to raise their children properly and had more options for state funded nurseries and better schools they wouldn't have become serial killers.

I love how you blame women for everything. Is the sign of an inferiority complex on your part?

High levels of unemployment due to women taking men's jobs.

-Really? You have proof of this?

Waste of resources on college courses such as "women's studies" that serve no useful purpose.

-Ya, cause classes about Dr. Suess and basket weaving is REALLY useful. As for classes on women's studies, alot of future psychologists and psychiatrists take it, both male and female, as well as political scientists, so obviously it's only your opinion that they serve no useful purpose.

Just because you know absolutely nothing about the feminist movement or issues facing the majority of women, doesn't give you the right to disrespect them.

Agree with you Cabbage, True the different roles do exists and the difference is what makes each sex special. We [women]need to accept ourselves the way we are with all our special differences before we can expect men to accept us with equal status of being human beings.LOL on the barefoot &pregnant image , IMHO, why should being pregnant be seen as an impediment, rather it our special strength, and in this hot weather being barefoot is so much cooler, and better I might add, to a nude stint in the sun , what say?;-)[just now kicked off my sandals]

I am all in favour of equal rights as long as they are equal and serve both genders in the same way; which at the moment they do not.

Female criminals serve less jail terms for same crimes

Far more research and funding go into women's health than men's

Education systems favour women over men

Women’s car Insurance is cheaper

Women get more rights in divorce – even when they are in the ‘wrong’

Far fewer shelters and help for men who are victims of domestic crime (still a taboo subject but the numbers are comparable if you look on web sites.)

Very little help for men who are victims of crime including sexual crimes

Women can adopt and foster children when they are single –men are looked upon as ‘perverts’

There have been a few high profile cases where standards have been lowered in male orientated jobs (fire service – just one example), to increase number of women in them. This is dangerous and risks people’s lives.

When the majority of women stop aiming just for the boardroom and cushy office jobs and actually aim for hundreds of feet down in coal mines or 100 feet up in the air on building sites working as labourers in extreme heat or cold. (I know in some poor countries women do these jobs).

When they give up and automatically presume they have the right to have the children the majority of the time in divorce cases.

When they give up the right to either get pregnant without the man being willing and start to take a man’s feelings into consideration when seeking a termination.

When the legal retirement age is the same and when men can take time off when a child is sick or has something on at school without being seen as a slacker.

When women who enter male orientated work places stop moaning and whining and stop shouting sexism when a man speaks to them in a way he would speak to a male colleague -

I will then be able to say yes equal rights are fair and equal.

If equal rights also include that women work the same hours as men and have children on their own; consider these facts –

There are high levels of childhood obesity because women no longer cook healthy food for their offspring. They are busy being equal to men at work.

High levels of incarceration (70% of serial killers were raised by single mothers).

High levels of unemployment due to women taking men's jobs.

Waste of resources on college courses such as "women's studies" that serve no useful purpose.

We do not have equal rights – because genders are different and both have a separate part to play in the society. This is why there are two genders – because if the intention was for us to be equal; we would be all the same ‘gender’ with the ability for a shared use of skills and opportunities. How would that work?

Now back to the kitchen for me – obviously barefoot but sadly not pregnant :-(

as both human being, yes we are all equal. But in a husband and wife relationship, it could not be. Each person have their own individual responsibilities AS WELL as COMMON responsibilities. When one party started to switch responsibilities, then that's where troubles comes in! Helping or assiting is not switching, that's should be clear!

As soon as I am better than him or he/she is better than me or I have the right on so and so account creeps into a family its no more a comfortable relationship... people may stick together for umpteen reasons...but are they happy!!! only questioning in isolation would reveal.... why not both decide what is best for the family. When all myths are broken, why cling onto some old myths.... it is this contradiction what to pick and what to leave seems to create confusions all around... unsaid, quite possible.

polkadots, I agree. You really got the essence of it there.

blind obedience. It's not the same as obying the commandments as given to both men and women. If woman was instructed to be obedient to man, man was instructed to take care and regards the woman as a precious jewel. If both parties obeys the commendments given to them, then there shouldbe less trouble.

A lot are mentioning isolated cases of abuse which is an excempton to the rule. If a woman devout a good time to serve her husband, does the husband go stray? Don't give that arguments that men are naturally polygamous (a wrong mindset). And in the first place, who chooses who to marry (in general we are talking)

Pilgram, what a woman really needs is equal status as that of man ie, equal say in marriage , in the society via vote, in the office in all fields of social life, equality in respect of the person, Not claiming to be equal to men!!! I for one will never concede my superiority in some areas to men, for instance, I not the father has the last say in matters regarding my kids, being the guardian of my kids is enshrined in my constitution as well, an important area of power which decides the fate of future generations, this is so even if the mother is not a bread winner, even traditionally the hearth always belonged to the woman and so the term “Maike” which literally means “mother’s house” to describe the paternal home of a married woman. Other areas where I realize that I am not equal to a man is when I have to walk down a deserted road at 10 pm all alone,travelling in an over crowded public transport,…..in these situations I m greatful for the Ladies only reservations allotted by the Govt and WILL NEVER campaign that I am equal to men so don’t need any of these, infact I condemn such Feminists who on one side Burn the bra[figure of speech to denote actions that outwardly look like masculine but in reality are pathetic] and then claim special benefits for being a woman. True liberation should be the empowerment of ourselves where we have the guts to walk out of an abusive relationship and have the DRIVE to fend for ourselves and our kids and not fight tooth and nail for every cent of alimony for ourselves!!!It is understandable to expect the father to share HALF [JUST]of the cost of raising mutual offspring. Also we should have the moral strength to refrain from spreading gossips about a fellow woman who showed any sort of moral courage to save her self and hers. We have enough of improvement to do on our own part than go around changing what the man thinks and trying to be better than him in all what he does! For a truly liberated woman never really cares what the men[/others] thinks in a self identified path of life.

Pilgram... no no, how can I ask you or anyone to refrain from saying anything... I said "I would refrain myself"... its all about me and only me ...:)

MBK I most certainly won't be refraining from bras for the next 9 months. Need to go shopping for new extra supportive ones actually!

No TB, they don't. But neither do some women. ;)

Yes Tinker I never understood freedom until I and BritExpat went to the Nudist beach on a Greek Island..:)

Perhaps I know some of them.. Please can you send a few pics of them on a cold day... :o)

I think he means by refraining or not wearing a Bra.. By the way you better start looking for clothes in Maternity section..wink!..:)

Brit I know lots of women who don't wear bras and it has nothing to do with liberation.

I don't understand happygolucky are you asking me to refrain on talking about feminism?

Pilgram... if that be then it is something which is personal to you and so I would refrain myself from talking any further on it.

I think we can agree that it was a figure of speech and not literal.. However, many a woman did do away with wearing a bra to show their "liberation"

I worked with such a person back in the early seventies .. :o)

I think we should also start an Obedient Husband Club. We poor Husband do not get noticed or get the credit for all the work we do around the house after a long day in the office!

Brit, hate to burst your bubble but no, no feminists actually burnt their bras:

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/mythsofwomenshistory/a/bra_burning.htm

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/burnbra.asp

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Where+any+bras+actually+burnt+by+feminists&oq=Where+any+bras+actually+burnt+by+feminists&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=27l2840l0l14l13l0l11l0l1l313l488l0.1.0.1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=c74879b3611d504b&biw=1280&bih=832

Happygolucky, unlike some I don't have any issues with women who choose to be obedient to their husbands, or be barefoot and pregnant, that's their prerogative. At the same time I don't go around spitting on feminists either, especially after all they've done for me.

Just because one is not content being barefoot and pregnant does not mean others cannot be... that would amount to imposing yourself onto others and quite contrary to the fight for equality of rights.

I must disagree.. Many a bra was burnt , but the result was a let down for many ...

Polkadots if you actually knew anything about feminism then you would know that no one actually burnt a bra.

Brit, we left out the word obey. I'm not mindlessly obedient to anyone.

welcome back.. we missed you !

did you promise to "Love, Honour and obey" during the ceremony or had your own vows ?

So pilgram will burning the bra, and claming it is restictive give you better living prospects, IMHHHHO, It can only give you a sagging wobbly figure, in otherwords is self destructive,I am for the "Equal Respect "of man/ woman not equality [what ever that means]

Cabbage, just because you're content to be barefoot and pregnant doesn't mean the rest of us are.

I came across this other article reporting on the same story, with these additional interesting bits from one of the club members in it--not exclusive to Muslims, growing international membership, and the behavior in the bedroom.

“A good wife is perceived to be prim and proper — you just take care of the children — but not much is emphasised on fulfilling sexual needs of the husband. If he needs sex, obey him,” Rohaya Mohamad, the club’s vice-president told AFP.

Rohaya said 30 percent of the club members were in polygamous marriages while the rest were in monogamous relationships and that the club was open to non-Muslims.

“You must satisfy your husband. A good wife should be a whore in bed,” said 46-year-old doctor, whose husband has three other wives.

She said the club boasted 800 Malaysian members so far with another 200 from across the Middle East.

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/06/04/malaysia-muslim-womens-club-urges-members-to-be-whores-in-bed/

Yes, it's all the feminists' fault. Had they not been asking for things like voting rights and equal pay, men would not have noticed them and been forced to beat the women back into submission.

I think we've found a charter member of the club's Doha branch. :-(

There is no need at all for a woman’s obedience or a man’s obedience culture.

We should respect each other and look after each other.

NO woman is better than a man and NO man is better than a woman.

It should be about looking after each other; respecting each other and loving each other.

Feminists – (spit) - you have done more harm to women then you know.

You have not made us equal you have made us more abused.

Women are now more vulnerable because of feminists and so called ‘women rights’.

By the old Moulmein Pagoda

Looking eastward to the sea

There's a malay gal a settin'

And I know that she obediently waits for me :o)

Ah...that's what that is then....had no idea! ;)

No, it is all because of those damned irresistible hotty hot Bengali men. They evoke such wantonness in Malay women. :-)

I think the concept of being a "obedient wife" is a little outdated by now. It seems certain cultures have not noticed that yet.

Husband and wife are equal, in every way.There is no need for obediency. They have to respect each other, ideally should love each other...and that should do the trick.

It actually makes me a little sick that women are spouting such nonsense as Maznah Taufik did..and others are actually following her...a sad day for womankind...a bit embarrassing, really.

a male human being and will be obedient to no one and expect no one to be obedient to me. If my husband treats me well then I will treat him well, end of.

No mArraige no tension, no tension no life so get married and have tension :P

I feel women should be obedient to men..........blacks should be obedient to whites.......low class whites should be obedient to high class whites.......wow......and where are those morons who fought for human equality simply to make this world a hell with no morals.............hail hitler

Pilgram, sign me up. And Mrs Expat, too!

I'm an obedient wife. I obediently spend all the money, obediently tell him when he's wrong, obediently tell him his daily chores, etc. I should start my own obedient wives club.

being obedient means follow what is your right as the WIFE. There are ways to address grievances but not divorce. I agree with comments regarding abuse and physical beating but it's the woman's choice from the beginning. That is why marriage is a sacred thing and should not be taken lightly and taken for granted.

If a person wants to marry, she or he should fully understand the responsibilities that goes with it. It is NOT blind obedience of a woman to her man but the kind of obedience that is JUST in front of God Himself. Simple arguments should remain simple if both parties put God's commandments in their marital relationship. Learn to accept the person's positive as well as negative traits. There is always a reason for someone to go for a separation or divorce if the mind is set on such option!

I am convinced that if my wife agreed with me all the time, we'd have less arguments, and I'd get to watch what I want on TV. But if we followed my lead on everything, most things would be a disaster.

the idea definitely has merit. Now how the hell do i get Mrs Expat's buy-in ?

"Yes Master" rofl

Nope Frenchieman, it just devolves any sense of responsibility from the man when the marriage breaks down, ie

'if you had been more obedient, i would not have beat you, had mistresses etc or wanted a divorce.

I am not particularly into womens lib but I cannot view this in any other light than as a vehicle to oppress women in the married state.

jawiayesha--Thank you. But I don't see this as specifically Muslim issue. As Fatimah wrote, this is true of a great deal of conservative religious groups, including Jews, Christians and Muslims. Divorce rates are increasing all over the place regardless of religious belief. I just thought this group in Malaysia had an interesting response to it, especially now that a sister club has shown up in Jordan.

I am just curious if anyone thinks this novel response by these women will work.

You are such a descent person indeed.Always wish to raise your voice for the muslim females often and for the muslims mostly even though you are french..uuhhmmmm.impressing

It will be interesting to follow the end result of this experiment.

sounds more BDSM to me!

"A group of Malaysian women say they will fight divorce, domestic violence and other problems -- by appealing to wives to be more obedient"

Supposing this to be accurate reporting and this truly is the cause the group endorses and believes in then that's just sad! But its also the attitude I've seen among many close minded so called orthodox communities of all religions back home. Where its believed that a man can beat his wife, have a host of mistresses, drink like a fish, gamble their wealth away etc and the wife is still advised to be "patient" and "just listen to what he says" Sheeeesh!Why? Oh cos her folks don't wanna face the "shame" of having a *gasp* divorcee as a daughter...grrrrr!

Of course I find it even more saddening to hear Muslims sport this attitude simply because in Islam we believe that both a husband and a wife have their rights and responsibilities in a marriage and just one person fulfilling them alone will never a happy, or for that matter religious , home make!And I for one will prefer divorce over staying married to a wife beater! after all our Prophet himself said ""The best among you is the one who is the best towards his wife" and I always want the best,Alhamdullilah!!

Thick as two short planks.......

errrr

what about an obedient husbands club - ie promising not to abuse your wife, cheat on her, provide for her, keep her in sickness and in health?? ooops sorry forgot, they already promised to do that in their marriage vows (in christianity at any rate). Now that would be nice

is the percentage of divorce because domestic violence? Nowadays, in a flick of an eye, divorce is done!

Divorce increasing these days, because women does not want to be obedient to their husbands... Almost women have job nowadays, so they want freedom to enjoy the pleasures of the world.... That is the truth..

Dude!

what is this world coming into!

They think by being obedient, their husbands wont stop beating them.

divorce is an international epidemically that does not know religion or race.

I believe domistic violence has been happening since creation, but it was a taboo subject everywhere, but since women are becoming more liberated, they chose not to tolerate that violence anymore thats when Divorce happen.

People do not get me wrong, I am not against divorce, I believe it is a difficult solution that will change your whole life.

A viable solution to the world's soaring divorce rate? I will ask the Mrs. what she thinks . . .