New York Times article about Qatar

New York Times article on Qatar provides a nuanced look at the country's rapid development and its global ambitions. It highlights the balance between modernization and cultural preservation, illustrating Qatar's unique position on the world stage. The piece offers valuable insights into the nation's strategic initiatives and challenges. https://spellingbeenyt.net/

@ nonmerci...she walked right into that one didn't she? *wink*!!!...LOL!!!...:)

Qatari princess...I clean, I cook, I do laundry, I shop, I dust, I make beds, I iron etc. I spoke to my boss about your suggestion . He now wants to speak with you. He does not seem happy...:(

give me info.

what do you do?

where do u work?

gov. , private company???

What?

qatari princess, but where do I go? For the last 2 hours I've been looking, and looking...NOTHING!! Where ? Please do tell me!

I even asked some other foreigners...but they did not know either :( You seem to be the only one in the know! Share your wisdom with us, please. :)

u can easily get compensation from anything...

just be smart and look around, other foreigners aren`t better than u!!

Hmmm, I am a "foreigner", I did not get "everything"...so where do I go to claim everything???

Wow great article...

I believe it was clearly pointed out, foreigners get evrything, some qtaris are spoiled more than normal amount...

yeah pretty much it, this is what defines qatar !!

I know exactly what you are talking about alinux...I work as a consultant with over 15 years experience in my field...I have my recommendations overturned by the locals who almost do the opposite then it blows up in there face...

I am not talking about streets, or other stuff with cultural influence. To be strictly specific without giving away to many details. I am talking about global/universal stuff such as networks/computer security/servers.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the issue of education, the society does tend to be one dimensional and it is because of the schooling and the way the media is tightly controlled, it is sad really.

Kbaisi, as I mentioned, am not new to Qatar and am not saying Qatari Chavs are the majority, but when a traffic policeman is taking side (like in my case) then I think we do have a problem, taking into consideration the educational and intellectual level of the Policeman of course. There is a growing hostility towards foreigners in Qatar. I didn't carry out any statistics or surveys. I might be wrong, but I can feel it growing. If you listen to the Radio every morning (Good morning my beloved country) show and read some of the forums' posts, you will feel it. The growing frustration and hostility towards foreigners shouldn't be ignored, at least within the legal framework.Btw in my traffic accident case, I had to get someone else involved just to make sure the law will be enforced. Again am not saying this is always the case or Chavs are the majority. I believe Education is the key.

lol @ hamada, he is probably the guy from the article's brother.:P His action is not justified even here, just because he says it is justified does not make it so. I am not denying such people exist around here but you have your equivalents in the West, such as Chavs in the UK for example, there they are represented as an isolated mischievous group of people who make up a part of english society, not as the average english man. Yet here you guys use such examples of people to represent Qataris as a whole and make foolish and ignorant remarks about them being the "majority", how would you know if they were the majority or not? Have you individually counted them and then calculated the percentages? The ones who don't behave in this way are not going to standout because they are behaving normally.

Kbaisi, I've been living here for over 15 years,so am not a newbie. 2 days ago at the corniche , a guy hit my car, his justification was similar to the parking story "This is my country, you didn't let me in, I had to force myself in", he thinks this is his country,so he has the priority on the road !!! such foolish acts take place and we can't simply deny their existence. I wonder if I did the same to him in my country, will my action be justified ?

@Linux in what way? Perhaps there are policy considerations that the expat is unaware of? I mean just browsing on here I see supposed 'experts' make ludicrous presumptions about what locals desire/what us good for the country, I am probably not even as skilled in their field and can see how their opinions could influence important decision making in a negative way.

Different people come to Qatar with different aspirations. Everyone sees this country from his/her own angle. Expats come here for money (majority), adventure, to know a different culture, to escape their own country, to find love (don't laugh, it's true). What matters is what Qataris think of this place? But somehow the natives of this place are very hesitant to express individual opinion. When I see a Qatari talking, I always feel this fellow is talking just to be in line with the mass (Qatari) opinion. I think it's the way of life here. I really wonder how many Qataris at individual level feel bitter towards their own system and cannot even voice it. We can at least runaway to our own country.

@sun26872

"When I see a Qatari talking, I always feel this fellow is talking just to be in line with the mass opinion"

The way I see it in professional discussions, "most" of the times where a local is the final decision maker, it always comes down to disproving what the expat consultant/pro says and putting his own mark on the final decision by either refusing or deviating from the consultants decisions, as if agreeing with the consultants recommendations/decisions makes the final decision any better.

My personal experience is related to detailed technical decisions where the expat has spent years in study and experience, something not always true for locals.

If you go to the main lounge in the forums here you will find a post reflecting exactly what people here were saying would happen from such a one sided article. I can handle a little humor directed towards me, but this article was just ridiculous. From the reporting of the guy who fought his way into the car park to the stories of those disgruntled wealthy Qataris. To claim such an article doesn't influence ones perception of Gulf Arabs in a negative way is just being delusional. Especially considering the lack of information out there on what the Qatar/ Gulf Arab world is like, people will use what comes their way to make an opinion, especially since there really isn't much opportunities for them out there to get a fairer view of the situation.

@ sun26872,very valid & good point you raised there...in a country like this,it would be almost IMPOSSIBLE for an expat to get to hear a Qatari's REAL opinion of their country & Government policy & yes you're spot on in feeling that when they do talk about it,they're just expressing mass opinion,NOT what they truly feel,a little pointer if i may,next time you're having this kind of conversation,try looking them in the eye,they won't be able to,'cos they're not telling the truth about how they really feel & quite honestly,you or me in their situation would do the same,i mean hey,who wants to bear the wrath of the state? especially here,where they're so dependant on the state,from the day they're born...right from the bottom of the pyramid beddus to the super rich ones,they're super rich because of the Govt.,there is no way they would enjoy the wealth they're enjoying if they were in ANY WAY anti-Government or spoke openly against the Govt. or it's policies...

And yes there are MANY locals who have issues with Government policy but unlike in the REAL world they can't voice that opinion,it's quite sad really but hey,this is their country,their Government,we were & will remain outsiders & quite frankly,i for one,am more than happy with that status quo...

bleu--

The lawsuit is for 81m pounds, which is not huge given the size of the fund but not a loss anyone would want to report to their bosses!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/16381m-lawsuit-over-chelsea-barracks-eyesore-opens-1975586.html

It has been in the British papers for about a year, so there has been plenty of time to settle it. I do not think it is primarily about the money. It seems more a dispute between Prince Charles (who loathes modern architecture) and the architect (who is a prominent figure and loathes Prince Charles). They have had other clashes before, and it seems Qatar's investment arm has just been caught in the crossfire. The architect wants to publicly humble the Prince, so I doubt he would take a private payoff.

Personally, I like the design plans, and I don't see what all the fuss is about.

bleu--

The lawsuit is for 81m pounds, which is not huge given the size of the fund but not a loss anyone would want to report to their bosses!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/16381m-lawsuit-over-chelsea-barracks-eyesore-opens-1975586.html

It has been in the British papers for about a year, so there has been plenty of time to settle it. I do not think it is primarily about the money. It is more a dispute between Prince Charles (who loathes modern architecture) and the architect (who is a prominent figure and loathes Prince Charles). They have had other clashes before, and it seems Qatar's investment arm has just been caught in the crossfire. The architect wants to publicly humble the Prince, so I doubt he would take a private payoff.

Personally, I like the design plans, but I can see why people might find them ugly.

@ linc,spot on. very well put & thank you.

@ olive,this article isn't targeting the few hundred educated,hard working Qataris who're happy where their country's going,it's referring to the MAJORITY of the 15% minority that the Qatari populace make up & in doing that,it's not very far from the truth i daresay,of course for the rose-tinted lens wearing expat variety here who can see nothing wrong with this town or the attitude of the majority of it's people,this article is bound to offend...as truth often does in such situations...Thank God for freedom of press in the REAL world i say...

it boils down to the fact that money does not buy respect, happiness, or a good life.

I think many Qataris, like many people all around the world may think so, but eventually the truth comes out.

Qatar will, eventually, have to look at itself in the mirror and ask itself what it is really up to and why.

linc, 9 million pounds is pocket change, I'm surprised they didn't just pay it and end this issue when it first started (before it arriving to court) ... Maybe they wanted the media attention?

I totally agree brit expat

This type journalism is usually found in “right wing” tabloids and I’m surprised that NYT has resorted to this to sell extra copies.

Olive--

"And nowhere in the article does it say it's only trying to represent a small portion of the population". Not sure what you are talking about. The article clearly states that its talking about Qataris, who its states make up 10-15% of the population. If they wanted a representative sample of the country's population, they would have talked to the far more numerous Indians.

And are seriously suggesting this article will hurt Arab-US relations? Qataris do not represent all Arabs, and it is ridiculous to suggest this. Even the most naive of NY Time readers will hardly think that. When Americans think of Arabs, they are most likely to think of the millions of Arab-Americans, including the new Miss USA. If they think of overseas Arabs they are most likely to think of Iraqis and Palestinians. Even if they think of Gulf countries they will imagine Saudi Arabia and Dubai. An article about a bunch of spoilt rich lay-abouts who do not think that they are even in control of their own tiny country is not going to change American impression of Arabs as a whole.

Quit playing the race card, Olive, and lighten up. The cost of wealth, success, and entrance into the global domain for Qatar is that people will criticize it and poke of fun of it from time to time. Its the price of public exposure. The more defensive one is about it, the more likely it will happen again. Best just to ignore it if you don't like it. In a way Qataris should be flattered. The NY Times never would have even bothered to print anything about Qatar ten years ago.

bleu--The NY Times is hemorrhaging money like most print media in the US, so you could probably pick it up cheap. But it sounds like after the Chelsea Barracks fiasco, the sovereign fund will be looking for something more profitable to make up for losses! Hopefully Harrod's will work out. It could use a makeover, and I will be shopping there next week.

Meanwhile in the UK the front page news for the last few weeks has been the story of the Chelsea Barracks development saga.

Key players are Sheikh Hamad, Qatari Diar and Prince Charles, amongst others. Strangely (ha!) that story is yet to be printed in the local papers here.

No one in New York will be giving a moment's thought to Qatar right now, but in London, the Emir is at the center of a multi million pound legal dispute splashed over the pages of all the major newspapers.

The short version:

Prince Charles accused of persuading Emir of Qatar to scrap project

(AFP) – 1 day ago

LONDON — One of London's leading property developers told a court Tuesday he believed Prince Charles persuaded the Emir of Qatar to block Britain's most expensive housing project.

Christian Candy is suing his Qatari partners in the prestigious Chelsea Barracks scheme in central London for 81 million pounds for breach of contract.

Candy said in evidence to a High Court judge that he found out in March last year that Prince Charles had written a letter criticising the plans by leading architect Richard Rogers, best known for the iconic Pompidou Centre in Paris.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gKSi6QkC__kNm1_Lz8mmbJCQwFXg

;)

Doesn't appear that Qatar needs to buy the New York Times to print puff pieces, The NYT is already doing it themselves if this is the quality of the articles their printing.

And nowhere in the article does it say it's only trying to represent a small portion of the population, nor would it come across as an exaggeration to anyone that doesn't live in Qatar. For most of the world they don't know where Qatar is or what it's doing, articles like these are not helping Middle East relations in the US or lessening peoples dislike and prejudice against Arabs. If you can't see the effect this article could have on someone who isn't an expat living here then perhaps you need to open your eyes a little linc, there's nothing "innocent" about this article (except perhaps the intelligence of the author)

linc, I agree, we should buy NYT, Herald Tribine, even the Huffington Post....

yes dear .. i have worked almost in all GCC countries .. but i found Qataries most friendly and respecting..

still its my personal opinion .. any one else may have his/her own point of view or experience...

cheers

Sure Maza, it was a carefully plotted conspiracy against the Qatari people. The NY Times has nothing better to do than conspire against a small Gulf state about which the vast majority of its readers known nothing.

Even if you dismiss the article, plenty of posters on this thread (Qatari and expat alike) have written more critical (and I would say more insightful) statements than in the article. How about addressing the subject of the article rather than complaining about the bad publicity? And what 'lessons need to be learn't'? The NY Times is suffering financially; perhaps the lesson to be learned is that Qatar should use some of the sovereign wealth funds to buy it and then fill it with puff pieces about how superior Qatar is.

After reading both the NY Times article and Mohammed Saffarani's response; it is clear that the NYT 'journalists' knew perfectly well what they were doing. This was no blog. They came to Qatar- and interviewed people and, under false pretences, obtained information that they intentionally manipulated and butchered to maximise the effectiveness of their slander against a population...lessons need to be learn't and very quickly.

Olive--

The article is not claiming to represent an "entire nation", only 10-15% of its inhabitants. After all, the article's point is that many Qataris do not feel that they are the nation anymore. If you are really concerned about balance, perhaps you should be complaining that there are no quotes from the largest national population in Qatar, the Indians.

I think you should take the advice of your own tag line and stop taking the article so literally. The article makes an interesting point, and most posters seem to agree that, although it is an exaggeration (which the more light hearted among us find humorous) it has a degree of truth to it.

linc, this article wasn't in the local paper and how many people internationally read the Gulf Times as opposed to the New York Times? I'm going to say quite a difference. The New York Times as a responsibility not to misrepresent an entire nation that the Gulf Times does not.

Imran, since your profile states you are from Pakistan, I can savely assume that you have been to all Arab countries and have done business in all of them for a year or two. Otherwise, how could you have made such a statement about around 30 countries, right ?

STFU

Qatari's are the best among all other GCC nationals .. they are far better then any other arabs in dealing and business.

Slightly biased if I may say...Yes, there are lazy Qataris, yet have met many many who excel at what they do.

I honestly had to chuckle reading Saffarini's attempt to redeem himself. What did he think was going to happen when he said such controversial things to a journalist?

At the end of the day, what a handful of people said on or off the record to a journalist isn't really the issue here. The elephant in the room is the Qatari government's increasingly futile attempts to keep citizens and expats content.

Why do these articles and online pieces continue to be so controversial? It's because this country stiffles discussion, debate, and a free press, and doing so is only making the problems of disenchanted nationals worse.

In a strange way, it seems to me that it is the hardworking, motivated and energetic nationals who are becoming the most upset with this country. They dutifully turn up at work on time, do an honest day's work, and at the end of the day they are surrounded by Qataris far richer than them who contribute very little (if anything) to this society. They want to see their hard work rewarded, and they want to make a meaningful contribution to society, to the economy, and to the world around them. But they are overlooked for promotion in favor of someone from a better family, and have to work twice as hard to earn half as much as other nationals.

They are the ones who are disgruntled and who want to see a change.

Olive--Don't you think the local press here covers the happy side enough already (never a frowning local face in the Gulf Times)? A lot of people (expats and Qataris) are not happy with the direction of the country, but it is hardly going to be covered locally is it? A little balance is always good.

Thanks for the link, bleu. Maybe Saffarini was quoted out of context, but then maybe he spoke too candidly and now regrets it. It does not matter much anyway, because there is no denying that his comments and those of the Qataris (correctly quoted or not) reflect how a significant number of expats and Qataris privately feel.

What Mohammed Saffarini says about how he was quoted

How about the hard working Qatari's, who are educated and enjoy their jobs and where their country is going.

Olive--I still think you are missing the point of the article. It is not trying to give an accurate depiction of the struggle of Qataris for an identity within their own country. Hardly any of the NY Times readers know where Qatar is let alone care about it. Qatar in the article is an exaggerated metaphor for all of the Westerners who bemoan their lost identities in the face of immigration. That it has provoked discussion here is just a bonus. If it was a really hard-hitting article, it would have given the (slave) wages of the servants, described the state of human trafficking or the two-tiered justice system. Or maybe article could have translates some of the wretched things Qataris mutter in Arabic at Westerners in the shopping malls.

That aside, what is the other side of the story that you think hasn't been included?

The problem for most of you is that you think Qatar is significant and it is not. Modern day slavery, laziness, and material joy, that is Qatar.

Even in editorials linc writers have the burden of trying to show both sides of the story and to be factually accurate. This article doesn't even attempt to show both sides of the story. It's lazy journalism on the part of the author.

Olive--

Editorials and the quasi-editorial pieces like this are meant to be biased. This article is intended to be more like a blog and is not meant to meet the high standards of investigative journalism. To miss this and respond with knee-jerk condemnations is to show our lack of sophistication as readers.

The point of this genre of journalism is to exaggerate in order to provoke thought and discussion, and in that sense this article is a success. It certainly managed to get all of us to look at it and start discussing the more serious issues it raises about national identity, immigration, pluralism, etc.

I say good on the New York Times for printing it, and I am glad I started the thread because this discussion has been excellent and the opinions illuminating (including yours, Olive).

Learning cannot be done unless and until you put your heart in it. It is ridiculous to blame the teacher or the books.

Link the article being and editorial does not excuse it's lack of balance and horrendously biased reporting. Whatever the context it was put the article is rubbish and the New York Times should be ashamed to print it.

"nothing in life is free" or so the saying goes i believe,as linc rightly stated,the price Qatar is paying for their "impressive" growth & development,be it the 200+ towers in west bay or the 2022 World Cup bid,ALL require qualified people to set up & run & there simply aren't enough qualified,hard-working locals to fill those positions,throw in a culture of laziness,a habit of living off Government welfare & a tribal culture that puts tribe & family name above everything else even in a "professional" work environment & quite frankly,things aren't looking very good..."Qatarization" from what i see around being implemented is simply for the most case,"employing" Qataris on paper,in order to meet the quota,then employing a qualified expat under or alongside that Qatari @ half or less the salary who actually does the work,now before everyone starts chewing my head off,this IS NOT always the case but it is true for more than 50% of such cases & more than 50% to me is a majority,fair enough?...now that doesn't seem very effective to me because that young local comes to work everyday(if even) & as the article rightly stated drinks tea,reads the paper & goes home & but of course the expat doing the job is not going to train the Qatari,why should they? They get paid less than half of what the Qatari gets for doing nothing & if they do actually train that Qatari to some level of competency,that means they are out of a job sooner or later & even at half pay,at least they have a paycheque @ the end of the month,why risk that & actually spend time & effort to train the Qatari?...so really,this plan isn't working is it?...The article is obviously biased against Qataris but to say there is no truth in it would be incorrect...

And yes,there are Qataris who work hard,who earn their pay,are truly qualified for the jobs they're doing,etc,no one is questioning that but what % of that 15% minority are they?...a very small one,i.e a minority within a minority & how much of a difference are they going to make & how many generations will it take to show?...

Oh, I do not think that Qatar will extend citizenship.

I am just saying it is one of the only solutions to being a minority within their own country. The immediate upside of keeping citizenship small is more wealth for the few. The long term consequences we are already seeing--minority in their own country and of decreasing importance to running it. Education reforms and Qatarization might slow down the process (but judging from the posts here I doubt it), but they will not stop it. Besides, when women are more educated and have more career opportunities, they marry later and have less children (a fact proven over time and across cultures), so a consequence of these reforms is a reduced birthrate for Qataris (adding to the problem).

Culturally, Qataris have already been marginalized to minority status. Yes, they still make the laws, but the government must balance Qatari cultural norms against accommodating the throngs of expats who are running the economy--i.e. more revealing Western dress, different strands of Islamic thought, the presence of alcohol, availability of Western media and entertainment, the predominance of English, a large USA military presence, etc., etc. People on QL are often saying that "it is their country", "if you don't like it, leave", but in all seriousness, is it practically speaking still their country if they act and feel like a minority and they are forced to make so many accommodations in order to keep the country running? Quite simply, there is a price for having someone else do everything for you, and this is it. It will only get worse, and Qataris, like nationals in the UE, are in real danger of becoming obsolete in their own country.

I sympathize with the sentiments of the Qataris quoted in the article. I would not want to feel like foreigner in my own country either.

Linc, you are amusing.

I am guessing the Michael Slackman is not Egyptian, but I understand that the additional contributor (Mona El-Naggar) is. Slackman is the real-deal journalist, writing about all sorts of Middle East topics, although seemingly mostly about Gaza, as that is that topic that receives the most news coverage in the NY Times. El-Naggar seems to maintain a blog and write various opinion pieces rather than investigative journalism.

I think the blog posts you linked (along with Olive) are taking this article way too seriously. The NY Times is an enormous paper and includes an array of articles and stories. Unlike the press in Qatar, it more clearly distinguishes between those stories that are investigative journalism and those that are more-or-less opinion pieces. I just looked at the whole paper for that day, and my guess is that the article is meant to be quasi-humorous poke at rich oil countries in the context of more bad economic news for Europe and North America. In that sense it is also reads like a response to the rash of articles in the TImes about how some nationals in Dubai are attempting a backlash against Western culture. This article is not meant to be balanced, and, to be honest, I seriously doubt the article would have been included in the Times if it were a genuine examination of the Qatari identity struggle (the readers simply would not care enough to read past the headline).

Education is a start, but that majority of students coming out of Education City are not Qatari (judging from the graduation photos), and a handful of physicians and engineers will only be a drop in the ocean of what is needed. It seems to me that Qatar has two choices if it want to remain in control of its own economy, culture and destiny: either scale down considerably to ensure that citizens make up the majority of the country; or extend citizenship to include the large numbers of people who are born and spend their lives here. In other words, boost the number of Qataris. The government could be selective (i.e. require citizenship tests, Arabic speaking, Muslim, etc.). Almost all first-tier developed countries have done this with great success, finding that such new citizens often work harder and are even more loyal to their new state.

The article about obesity was with merit, that is real problem in our society, I saw nothing wrong with that and a lot of it was very true. However this one just seemed like a way to throw a few shots at Qatar for the fun of it.

Like all other religion, Islam doesn't stop in acquiring any sort of education which enlighten and brighten ones life, mind and soul......It is purely ones understanding of Int'l level of education and balancing the respect of local cultures and traditions :)

Exceptions are always there in all communities and nationalities, they exist in Qatar as well....however general comments are usually based on what majority of population follows or does.

The major cause of Obesity is inactive lifestyle, selection of fatty and inappropriate food, its irregular intake.......

Note that the very purpose is NOT to make fun but consider Positively :)

............and in general greedy nature

Happy Happy, thank you for the explanation.

.....Khawaga, in Qatar, a Sheikh is a member of the Ruling Family, or an Islamic Scholar.

Back home, the same term is used, but with slightly different connotations.

More links...

http://derhamiya.blogspot.com/2010/05/in-response-to-new-york-times-article.html

http://qatar.livejournal.com/353697.html

My thoughts exactly bleu. I've lost a lot of respect for the New York Times for even printing this article. (Although the obesity one I think should be taken a little more seriously. There are a lot of obese Qatari's)

It seems that Ms. Naggar likes to criticize, first by saying we were fat (with skinny kids in the photo), and now saying we're rich/stupid (not many Qataris are rich or stupid, but she likes to generalize an idea).

Some people are close-minded, and used to whatever they had; look at the latest idea of all government required to sign a contract, and most Qataris in the anti-QL hate it and intend to refuse signing it.

Qataris didn't sign any contract. We used to come into a job, and they would sign that we started work, and we had a guarantee that we would never be fired. The contracts say otherwise.

p.s. Her name sounds so Egyptian, is she?

I'm not expecting an official government response in the article, but I know a lot of Qatari's who are very happy in their jobs, why aren't they represented in this article?

...

khawaga, if you go through the posts made by genesis and kbaisi,it seems that the interpretation of islam by some conservative clerics actually is the bottle-neck in the progress of the nationals with regards to education of international standards in the country.

Rishi: what do you mean?

one simple question...is islam or its interpretation coming in the way of progress of qataris??

Interesting. Thank you.

You're a Sheikh when you're a close relative to the ruling family. As simple as that.

Fubar: I'm curious about your comment of the teenage sheikh.. I'm pretty new to town so forgive me. What does it take to become a sheikh? I always though it was a religious title.

Is it that surprising or unrealistic to expect that 'ordinary' Qataris want to live the same lifestyle as those of the ruling and priviledged families?

Why should some Qatari families be expected to work hard to provide for their families while others are just handed money each month in return for their surname?

Unfortunately a lot of younger Qataris feel that they should be able to aspire to live the same lifestyle as the wealthy Qataris; when a teenage Sheikh can proudly drive his 7,000,000QR car around town, what do you think this does to the pride of other young male Qataris?

Olive, I take your point about the article being onesided, and you are correct, but perhaps this is one of the shortcomings of this society - there is no one speaking on behalf of 'the Qataris'. The government remains tightlighted on so many issues, but all it seems to do is demonstrate the presence of a disenfranchised group of Qataris who have no voice.

Rejiputhooran

How do you live past 15 years?

Alone or with family???

I am here in Qatar since 1995.

I never feel any problem here....

Realy I love Qatar

we are in the same boat, I agree with you.

Very interesting your post - thanks.

I also think the issue is in Shafali Islam - debating certain topics is viewed as haram - and this has a knock on effect in thinking processes towards other issues.

This is by no means exclusive to Qatar.

kbaisi...I am truly impressed by your analytical way of thinking and frankness......keep it up.

@ olive I agree with all you have said, the article does seem inherently biased and focused on displaying the irony of the situation of Qataris, as if all of them are filthy rich and showered with opportunities, but still are disgruntled employees.

@Hamada I really don't like discussing the religion angle because there are so many different views/interpretations it is impossible to come to a uniform standard on what is acceptable. This is the case with most monarchial regimes that enmesh religion with politics, for example in Saudi women can't drive, the same was true in Qatar before '97, in Dubai you get a few months in jail for blasphemy, in Qatar several years and so on.

So what is the 'correct' version of Islamic law? Within any country people following a particular scholars belief will tell you that his interpretation is the correct one. The population ascribes to the rules and interpretations of a particular scholar/school of thought and use that as a form of spiritual guidance. However, the danger of this is people will accept anything these men say blindly, and never question the validity of their statements because of of their status in the field of Islamic studies, and it is usually futile trying to debate or discuss a point with someone who has already picked a certain ideology and embraced it as the one and only truth.

The danger of this is that it is unrealistic to expect scholars to paint a complete picture of what is affecting a local population, because this would be achieved by criticizing not only external sources of their issues, but also local ones, thus requiring one to address the incompetence/misconduct of a ruling regime. We all know what happens when they do that, so in my opinion, most of these scholars opinions on politics/development usually reflect the views of the ruling regime where they reside, the only thing they can all agree on is that certain non-Muslim countries are the enemy, and responsible for all Arab/Muslim misery. So once again this to limits the possibility for the people to find an alternative viewpoint to the ones forced upon them since birth.

A lot would strongly disagree with what I am saying, but this is my view based on what I have observed and experienced.

.

Well Put man.

Frankly I think the article is too short and tabloidish to take seriously. To really get in depth into the culture here you'd have to do more then interview a couple of Qatari's, and didn't she interview any that were happy with their jobs? Very one sided I say. Shame on the New York Times for such sloppy journalism.

I'm not denying there are issues here, as Genesis said, the primary and secondary schools are sadly lacking and not preparing young Qatari's for the real world and I understand their reaction to all the foreigners "invading" their lands as they sound like many in the West do about immigrants. Personally I still think Qatar is on the right track, but judging it now is like judging if a baby will be an Olympic runner on their first steps. It's just too early to tell.

Cruel reality and it BITES too.

Money Power do work most of the times and will continue to work......

Qatar hoping to catch UAE/Dubai in the long run, I seriously doubt.

@ oryx it's not just Qataris, but most citizens of Arab/Muslim countries except for perhaps Malaysia. Their sources of information is very limited, and usually represents only one view point which is to be accepted as the 'right' view. The Arabs/Muslims who were fortunate enough to pick up another language, or grow up/live among those from societies where independent thought flourishes tend to be not as gullible (unless of course they stayed within the same sort of communities as their own when abroad, which is very common).

A few outspoken Qataris back in the day were vilified in the media/society for expressing a different perspective on issues that generally had only one accepted 'right' view, they were effectively ostracized from the society. Whereas nowadays I can go on to this forum or others and even meet several Qataris who don't represent just one line of thought, they are a minority but it will grow in time.

you say Qataris are gullible.... well i think that is due to the lack of the critical thinking skills.

Wow great thread and interesting comments - thanks genesis and happy.

Education is one issue.

another is a lot of Qataris don't know what it is like in world outside of Qatar so as expats we have more perspective on employment market forces etc. This is because if they have been there its only a little holiday and they don't read newspapers/books.

I think Qataris (or Sauds, Emaraties etc) expect too many rights and do not want to do their duties. This is a big predicament for their governments.

DP

So kbaisi basically your answer to my question is No.

people would speak different about Qatar than those being here.

Qatari is a great MOD and is educated. He seems very intelligent and is very good at his job. So what are you all talking about?

@ Whyteknight, and surely corporate heads/middle class in the West also vote in elections based on the candidate that offers the most protection to the rights of low wage earners who usually are the most affected by white collar crime, right?

I agree with most of what john of arc has said in here about Qatar simply trying to force itself to modernize rapidly at the expense of quality and long term results by taking steps gradually. And as another person had said, a large number of Qataris don't help the situation by rejecting this change, and this coupled with their naivete and the cartoon nature of arab media can produce some disastrous results.

People in this part of the world tend be to very gullible and will believe anything if they see it printed in a newspaper, the concept of tabloid sensationalism simply doesn't exist.

Did any Qatari citizen complain about the 700 Riyal salary that construction workers get (Bulk of the population here) or did they complain about only the ones earning more than them?

When it comes to educational institutes , there are as much as 163 SEC independent school ready to accommodate students in the upcoming 2010/2011 school year. The problem lies that many Qataris refuse to accept the recent reform in education as they think it's against their norms.It all started with an article published some years ago by a Kuwaiti Islamic intellect Abdulla Al Nufaisi who claimed that the reforms are all a plot by RAND CORP to westernize the Qatari Youth.

Here's an interesting article published yesterday in Wall Street Journal about recent educational reforms in Qatar;

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704247904575240083760987978.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories#articleTabs_comments%3D%26articleTabs%3Darticle

Many thinks that the transition to the new education system happened so fast & are worried that the students will lose their identity with the application of English as the main language for Science & math.

As i expressed in many different threads, it really saddens me that many Qataris rejects those reforms. Yet, complain that their offspring are deprived from having a proper higher education

Just last week SEC have announced the establishment of Qatar's Community college (Which will start its courses next September) to host Qatari students who've failed to get acceptance at EDC or QU

http://www.english.education.gov.qa/section/sec/_community_college

still some are complaining that the college is co-ed & the curriculum is in English

FYI in Saudi Arabia, local account for over 60% of total population, ... and still it's not working there.

so, its not that the expats has outnumbered Kuwaitis/Omanis/Emaraties and QATARIES .. but something else that's the reason for growing tension between the Employer and Employees.

I think, both MUST have a win-win approach .. and consider each other as PARTNERS IN MUTUAL SUCCESS..

however, as someone said modern slavery is more popular belief here.

Saudization Fails to Stem the Tide of Foreign Workers

Javid Hassan, Arab News Staff

RIYADH, 23 March 2010 — Despite the government’s Saudization efforts, foreign workers keep pouring into the Kingdom. “Every day I bring 20 to 25 new arrivals from the airport. I know they are newcomers from the conversation they have with the people who welcome them,” Mohammed Razak, a limousine driver, told Arab News.

He said his experience and that of colleagues was that job-seekers keep coming on free visas, although such visas have been declared illegal. New arrivals from south and Southeast Asia include both professionals and unskilled workers. They enter the Kingdom on a work or other category of visa and then change their job description to land a job reserved for Saudis. All they have to do is pay SR1,000 at the Labor Office.

Only 500,000 Saudis are officially said to be working in the private sector, which is where the majority of the Kingdom’s six million expatriates work. This puts the level of Saudization of the work force in the private sector at eight percent, far below the 30 percent target set by the government.

According to Hisham Ferhat, a sales executive, companies have adopted a new ruse to artificially boost the level of Saudization of their work force.

“They sign a contract with a Saudi firm, which agrees to act as the expatriate employee’s sponsor. The actual employer pays the Saudi firm a fixed amount. This reduces the official foreign workforce of his company and pushes up the level of Saudization to the required level,” Hisham said. An executive said despite the ban recruitment of unskilled manpower continues. He attributed this to influence peddling or “wasta”.

The Manpower Council’s Secretary-General Abdul Wahed Al-Humaid has estimated that some 20,000 jobs would be created under the plan to Saudize 25 economic activities, mostly in sales. According to the plan, 100 percent Saudization of the work force should be achieved within three years. But economist Talal Mufti says: “The three-year grace period given to Saudize the retail industry was ignored during the first two years, which meant that the scheme had to be rushed through to achieve the target.

“This has created absurd situations, as in the case of a company from Cyprus which has been obliged by the labor office to employ ten security guards for manning two gates.”

Dr. Syed Khwaja of the Health Ministry said the main problem is one of mindset. “While it is true that a section of the Saudis are sincere and hardworking, unfortunately a sizable section of them have a laid-back attitude. They while away their time on phone calls, socializing and spending more time on prayers than is necessary. This is the reason why the private sector resists calls for Saudization and cuts corners wherever possible,” he adds.

Another interesting article I read a while ago is

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

It is about Dubai there are some similarities..but not all applies.

.....adey, education is the key, we all agree. Partially discussed here:

http://www.qatarliving.com/node/764894

given that only 15% of pop are citizens, then deduct the numbers of citizens who are unable to work because of their age or other reasons, then no Qatari should be unemployed - there are plenty of jobs out there.

The problem is two fold: firstly Qatar runs a low wage economy thus many would find these jobs unacceptable - but that's the 'real' world.

The second problem is educational inflation; in the globalized economy that Qatar finds itself in, as it competes with business around the world or hosts multi-national companies, the standards of education required continue to climb. Most jobs worth having now require a degree and basic clerical jobs need at least education to 18. If you have left school at 16 you will be working in McDonalds or spending years trying to learn a skilled trade.

So the solution?

The current 'lost' generation will have to be supported financially by the government but with a commitment that such benefits will stop for their children eg come 2030 say, No Job = No government handouts. Obviously the unemployed will be given enough benefits to eat and put a roof over their heads but no more. The incentive will be to earn a living, parents will put a greater store on educating their offspring, it will cure the malaise of 'entitlement and less expatriates will be needed in the country. However this all depends on the government providing good quality education, something I believe the SEC is working on but it can't do it overnight; it will take a generation.

Artificially stimulating the job market by placing unqualified and unmotivated citizens into 'made up' jobs in the public sector does nothing to solve the long term situation. Private companies can not afford to carry 'dead wood' either. The history of Qatarization, Emiratiztion or Saudization has proved that it does not work - stop flogging a dead horse and deal with the real issue which is education.

Hey, but that's only my opinion. :)

....John Of Arc. agreed. Now you have a Qatari with a position and pay, but another employee is mostly doing the job for the former.

Schools are complaining about the very low % of Qatari teachers in Independent Schools. The Qatari to-be-teachers basically apply for the job, criticize the salary and eventually withdraw.

Computer teachers, schools accountants, school IT support are never Qataris, for some reason.

qatarisun, my questions were general and not to anyone in particular..i agree somewhat that it will take time for qataries to learn how to work hard and struggle to survive as its not what they see in their families..

however, the state should make policies and regulations so that each and every national gets a fair opportunity to attain the highest quality of education in various fields.

if they can aspire to make 9 air conditioned stadiums just to hold the 2022 wc, they should also be able to make premium educational institutes for nationals.

My basic suggestion to all the Qataris is rather than taking it out on expats, they should reach a settlement with their government. They should make their governments to limit visa qoutas and not allow expat to send money back home beyond a certain limit (like Libya)

In the bargain, they should raise their children in such a way that they will become good humble sweepers to gardner to CEOs, so that their will be true Qatarisation.

My basic suggestion to all the Qataris is rather than taking it out on expats, they should reach a settlement with their government. They should make their governments to limit visa qoutas and not allow expat to send money back home beyond a certain limit (like Libya)

In the bargain, they should raise their children in such a way that they will become good humble sweepers to gardner to CEOs, so that their will be true Qatarisation.

.......qatarisun, with the new HR law, my friend has already resigned! but her resignation has been rejected. She was asked to take some paid time off, until they've resolved "her" issue.

She's a senior and well respected where she works.

??

Happy Happy, they ARE!

rishimba, that's NOT what i mean at all.. I said, they have to learn how to study first, and then how to work... not all, but majority.. I personally know few highly educated very intelligent qataris.. but they are "one drop in Gulf".. as I said, STUDING is not in Qatari mentality, there is no history and traditions of education in Qatar.. and government has to create an image of the Qatari who is respected based on his educational level, not based on his oil-dividends level

Qataris seem much like the poor people who win a giant cash lottery in the West.

Most winners immediately start living a lifestyle of along the lines of what they had always imagined wealthy people to enjoy--i.e. what they see on TV. This means lots of excess, waste, leisure, and feeling superior to everyone else because of the size of their wallets. Only a minority of the winners work hard, better themselves and their family through education, remember that they were once poor and treat other poor people with dignity, and never forget that their wealth came from luck rather than skill.

Not surprisingly all but a handful of these winners waste all of their money and ultimately die lonely and poor. That is what the government leadership is trying hard to avoid for Qatar when the oil and natural gas run out. Good luck to them. Judging from the article and the majority of Qataris whom I know and work with, it will be an uphill battle. And the next generation just seems to have a much greater sense of entitlement and more likely to believe all the hype about their "superiority" (but then who could blame them if they grew up in this sheltered, censored environment; one would think, reading the press here, that Qatar was the globally acknowledged center of the universe populated by the most industrious, high-achieving people on the planet).

This article just confirms it all in a humorous way.

...exiledsaint, there is a Technical School in Qatar, I believe they're doing well and its popularity is on the rise.

http://www.english.education.gov.qa/content/resources/detail/5825

I agree with genesis fully only on one point that schooling of Qataris is not rightly good enuff. As Qatarisun very rightly said, there are no role models of hard work to follow.

But again this reflects a conflict between common Qatari and government. Remember friends we are talking about monarchy where public interest may not be the best interest.

Maybe they should start my nationalising the labourer jobs.... but I guess the qataris don't complain they are being taken by foreigners!

is there any engineering or a medical college in qatar to start with..?

does the state want to utilise the services of expats in this field for years to come?

does qatarisation mean filling nationals in senior positions of different private sectors irrespective of their education and experience?

....qatarisun, the local hard workers aren't highly rewarded, as they should either!

Qatar is developing for very short period of time. 1-2 generations ago education was not a part of the local culture at all... so it is simply not in qataris’ blood to study hard and to achieve any goals.. That’s what Qatar government is doing, is pushing Qataris hard to accustom them to study and to accustom them to work.. well.. it needs another at least 1-2 generations (or even more, depends on how correct the current path is) to change their mentality... Government is doing great job, but something else should be done, some other instruments and incentives should be brought up, rather than excessive unjustified salaries for qataris.. Some image of working Qatari should be created, so that it would become prestigious for Qatari to study and to work.. much more prestigious than flying on Land Cruisers..

in my office Qatari's r the late comers.... but they use LIFO format in goin... i.e LAST IN FIRST OUT.... all except Qtr's r doin work in time, & they r busy in mobil's... is ths hard work???(all r very young toooo) they r given all privilege... but never found loyal... may b only in my office... i wish so.... not all qatari's....

& one more point i hav found is tht.. wen my frnd corrctd one of Miss.Q's mistake... she said... if mistakes comes its ur duty dont correct me....

--------------------------------------------

“The priority always goes to the foreigner,” said Ali Khaled, 23, who is finishing his government-financed aeducation in London. - cant blieve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...genesis, tell you the truth, I'm so confused with these clashing accounts. Also, Qatarization isn't implemented properly.

For how long have these cross-complaints been on?

I work with a lot of qataries and sone and very, very good. A lot just coast buy. If I was in their situation getting great salaries and benefits plus all the govt help I would like to think I would still work hard but I am realistic to doubt I would. If you can get promoted without really trying why bother.

well said happy-happy

This issue have been hot topic now in many different forums. I think it's about time that it's been discussed openly.

Why do Qataris have this feeling of resentment?

Frankly speaking, I don't think it's towards expatriates.

But towards the Government somehow.

Many believe that they're not getting chance in good education, good health care or good salaries

This feeling of resentment is increasing among junior staffed Qataris. Those who dropped off collage to join the workforce. Many of them blame the current education system, as government schools have not prepared them well to be accepted at colleges. Many failed the admission requirements whether at EDC or QU. Also Those who works at government offices and had thier salaries deducted as per the new unified HR law And those who received early retirement

.....drmana, unlike you, I constantly work with Qataris. I noticed in many organizations that directors have no confidence in their own local staff. They'd rather be represented by a "consultant", than by local calibers!

If they're misled to believe that imported skills would enhance their prestige, they're mistaken.

happy, haven't dealt with much Qatari nationals so can't comment on that. But what I believe is if one has desire/interest to learn something, he wouldn't waste time just because others are not interested in teaching him. He can very well learn just by good observation with show of interest. Blaming others for one's laziness or lack of motivation wouldn't help in long run.

....drmana, when I first arrived in Qatar, I was optimistic thinking 10-15% of Qataris are up to leadership qualities. Now after almost 2 years, I'd say:

- 10-15 % of Qataris are hard workers.

- 2% of them are leaders in the making.

- The rest are not motivated or indifferent.

.....It's so funny how when I sit with my Qatari friends they complain that "Qatar is not for Qataris, we've become second best".

Then my expat friends badmouth "the Qatari slackers are getting all the benefits for doing nothing!"

Wallahi unbelievable!

I would only like to ask one thing.....Is it only because we "expats don't teach them skills of work" that they "go to work to drink tea and read newspaper" and "being unable to grasp work for 3 years" as quoted in the article?

....flanostu, there is a lot of truth in the Article you've posted. But the one we have at hand, is too passive than being constructive.

Do you see the bigger pic. Expat are here. If they think they are winning, they will. If they feel they are losing they can always leave.

Qataris have bigger dilemma. They hate expats and cannot kick each foreigner out off here. Of course, they can tell their government to do so. And I feel they should be heard in their country. It's basically a conflict between Qatari government and Qatari citizens. Why should expat suffer?

here's another from a few weeks back, they're on a roll.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/middleeast/27qatar.html

...Yup! It's spreading, not only in the local press and media, but now in English and other languages too.

Qataris and expats at loggerheads.