Muslim family taken off US flight for safety!
A Muslim family were taken off an internal flight in the US after they were overheard having a conversation about the safest place to sit, it emerged today.
Federal authorities kicked off all eight members of the extended family and their friend after other passengers raised the alarm.
Even after they had all been cleared by the FBI of any wrongdoing, the airline - AirTran - refused to let them rebook on another flight, according to CNN.
Atif Irfan, his brother, their wives, a sister and three children had been on their way to a religious conference in Orlando, Florida, from Washington.
Mr Irfan's sister-in-law, Inayet Sahin, said: 'The conversation, as we were walking through the plane trying to find our seats, was just about where the safest place in an airplane is.
'We were discussing whether it was safest to sit near the wing, or the engine or the back or the front, but that's it. We didn't say anything else that would raise any suspicion.'
The conversation did not contain the words 'bomb', 'explosion', 'terror' or other words that might have aroused suspicion, she explained.
It was not until the plane was at the gate that an FBI agent boarded the plane and asked Mr Irfan and his wife to leave.
The rest of the family were removed soon afterwards, along with family friend Abdul Aziz who happened to be on the same flight.
Passengers had overheard what they regarded as suspicious remarks from a female member of the family and alerted flight attendants.
Federal Air Marshals on the flight notified law enforcement officials and the group were taken for questioning.
The remaining 95 passengers on the plane were also taken off and the entire craft, crew and luggage re-screened to be sure there was no bomb on board.
Mr Irfan, a US citizen and tax attorney, admitted he was impressed by the officials' professionalism but says he feel they should have been allowed on another flight.
Mrs Sahin added: 'The FBI agents actually cleared our names. They went on our behalf and spoke to the airlines and said "There is no suspicious activity here. They are clear. Please let them get on a flight so they can go on their vacation", and they still refused.'
AirTran says they acted properly and that the family had been offered full refunds and told they can fly with the airline in the future.
'AirTran Airways complied with all TSA, law enforcement and Homeland Security directives and had no discretion in the matter,' a spokesman said.
Mr Irfan said he believes his family is owed an apology: 'Really, at the end of the day, we're not out here looking for money. I'm an attorney. I know how the court system works.
'We're basically looking for someone to say. We're apologizing for treating you as second-class citizens.'
"We are proud Americans,' Mrs Sahin added. 'You know we decided to have our children and raise them here. We can very easily go anywhere we want in the world, but you know we love it here and we're not going to go away, no matter what.'
Mr Aziz, the family friend, has warned he may sue.
'I guess it's just a situation of guilt by association. They see one Muslim talking to another Muslim and they automatically assume something wrong is going on,' he said.
The Mail
Sorry, this was addressed to PM ....
Only in sensational ones.
On a journey from London to Scotland I once read several newspapers and compared the stories.
I thought I'd never pick up a newspaper again! lol
Oh thank you jauntie. I was beginning to think I was really thick or something, because I just don't see how discussing the safest place to sit is some kind of security threat.
Anyway, usually when we discuss the safest part of a plane, it's in reference to what if the plane goes down. Like jauntie said, there IS no safe place if the plane blows up!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090106/ts_alt_afp/ustransportairsecuritymuslimsrights_090106002219
Never fly in a plane where one of the passengers is wearing a T-Shirt with Arabic script on it!
LOL okaaay.
if a bomb goes off in an aircraft, it makes no difference if you are sitting on it or if it's at the other end of the aircraft - the whole plane goes up in a ball of flame NOT just where the bomb is.
Makes no difference where you sit.
The whole incident sounds crazy to me - I think there must've been more to it.
Suicide bombers, or even common or garden terrorists, don't usually advertise their intentions.
Jeez lol
When did I discriminate?
The actions of the "scared" passenger, the marshals and the airline makes sence in the light of 9-11 as it is well known that the 19 people who perpetrated that act all "looked" like proper Muslims...
Scarlett, my sweet surrogate mother. Sorry they pull you over because of me, your maligned and vexed Muslim son...
Seriously though, Alexa and Scarlett have they asked you directly if you are Muslim?
They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to see it... --George Carlin
the people should just carry a card stating that they won't make stupid comments that will get them in trouble, when they know better!
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
jaunty then don't they know that either entire flight is safe or at risk. why were they after the safe place then...
You mean the flight attendants should carry some logic analyzer to check which statement is safe and which is not? just for a thought...
They were discussing the safest place to sit on the plane, right?
Surely, if they had planted a bomb on the aircraft NOWHERE would be safe to sit!
I'm not saying that they shouldn't have pulled them out. They should always be safe when it comes to security. I'm just saying that there's no equality and I'm fine with that, people need to understand that and get over it, because it doesn't really bother me.
Throughout the US history immigrants have always been discriminated against, Africans, Irish, Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans etc.. and now Arabs. I know that some people who don't look Arab get pulled out on occasion, but can you really compare that to the number of times Arabs get pulled out? Like I said, it doesn't bother me at all and I don't blame anyone. I wouldn't apologize for it either, and when you say you believe there IS Equality, in most cases and there are some exceptions. That just proves my point that there's no equality.
I think there is more story than this.....!I've been pulled over too in full view of everyone and had my case opened! But nice Gulf Air upgraded me to first class for the inconvenience...I'm uncovered!
I know. I'm all for additional security checks and all that. I'm just saying they shouldn't say they have equality because clearly they don't.
Don't preach equality if you put barriers up because of someones faith.
If it means that I and others, remain safe while we travel, then strip search those (including me, if necessary) that raise suspicion in whatever manner, or in the random group. Evidently I look random enough to get chosen almost every time. :)
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
RP: lol
Only God Can Judge Me
الله فقط يمكنه محاكمتي
I am you and you are me, if you love i love, if you suffer i suffer
أنا أنت, و أنت أنا, إذا أحببت نفسك أحببت نفسي, إذا عانيتَ عانيتُ
I know that you fit the profile.
I would love to see you being questioning by the USA Customs and Immigrations Officers.
Don't worry I will have you sniff first by an explosive and drug dogs.
Blame it on terrorofobia. Why take it so seriously after all it is a security measure.
Calm down calm down breath breath go get some cold water frozen ice.
I am always amazed at the millions of people that travel by plane each day all over the world. Among those millions traveling are women that wear scarves and men that have beards. They are able to board a plane and arrive to their destination without questions being asked.
If a person did not report a suspicious conversation and a disaster occurred, how horrible would that be? Almost 4000 lives were lost on 9-11. That is a fact that will never be forgotten.
The pilot must feel safe in order to get the plane and the passengers on board to their destination safely. Period.
Heed the warnings. Like you posted, Scarlet, announcements are made and warnings are posted everywhere in the airport. Listen and read. Don't bring attention to yourself by having a dialogue with others that can be misconstrued.
These are most of the time white people over-reacting i hate those people i am not saying i hate white people
have anyone of u ever seen harold and kumar: guantamo bay
the plane scene was really funny
Scarly I am backing your views on this one..
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HE WHO DARES WINS
Thanks again. Have a super day.
They were US citizens. And yes, you have to be careful what you say in airports and planes...BUT...there is ALWAYS a public announcement AND very clearly posted signs, going at the airport stating that ANY comments will be taken seriously. Also that any unaccompanied bags should be reported to airport authorities.
I shouldn't take more than just one person to alert the authorities...what if it actually HAD been someone who was plotting and only one person heard the conversation? If they didn't report it...disaster...
I also don't think anyone would have really minded missing the activities for New year's eve when safety is concerned.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
i do disagree with you on what you just posted. I would PREFER to have erred on the side of safety and have everyone taken off the plane when comments like that are made...by anyone. If I am irresponsible enough to say something like that, i wouldn't be surprised to be hauled off and told I could take the next flight when I cleared security checks.
Earlier someone said why didn't they let the 9 people back on board...this explains it..from Red Pope's post "If the pilot is uncomfortable with someone flying on their plane, that's their decision," White said.
I would rather have a pilot relaxed and not worried about what's going on in the back of the plane so that he can actually FLY the craft safely. Why worry about being bombed if you crash the plane due to being distracted?
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
I read somewhere that everyone on the plane missed New Year festivities, since the flight was delayed.
Does it just take one person to say something, or did a number of people approach the officials in regards to their concern?
***
Veni, Vedi, Visa ~ I came, I saw, I shopped
I was just thinking that people are more careful what they say while at the airports, right? Especially so if you have the look of a Muslim, either in complexion or attire. Maybe they should have spoken to each other in another language, assuming they know something other than English (I read that they were born in the US). Or would that be more suspicious?
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Veni, Vedi, Visa ~ I came, I saw, I shopped
you made is much easier i have alot members ready to pick on any one any time :D oh i am the first one to get one pissed :D
No wonder its the country of freedom of religion, equality, democracy and justice.
Poverty is not for the sake of hardship. No, it is there because nothing exists but God. Poverty unlocks the door -- what a blessed key!
- Jalaluddin al-Rumi
Picked on, not picked up!
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Veni, Vedi, Visa ~ I came, I saw, I shopped
I don't wear head scarves or cover..and get "randomly" selected all the time, for those lovely extra security checks!! Heck...last summer I got pulled in the immigration in Houston and had to go through the entire process of xraying and talking to the immigration officer. It happens to me so often that I end up having really nice conversations with them...:)
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Sadly, the point of the whole exercise is missed. They were "targeted" because of their demeanor and also because someone took it upon themselves to label them as dangerous.
Whilst the airline followed procedures and finally an apology was issued, it is right to ask questions and look at processes / procedures to ensure that these incidents do not re-occur..
you also tell me date and time will come and drop throw you at the airport me alone is enough for that :D
when boarding a flight to go home last month, I had to go through 3 levels of security..one to get into the airport here in Doha, one to get to the gate and one after going THRU the gate before boarding the plane!!! When my husband left a week later, the last security check (the mobile unit outside the airport) took some of the gifts he had for his sister...a glass tea set(seems they thought it might be able to be broken and used as a weapon) and another glass object. In my way of thinking, why not take pens or mechanical pencils as well because those can be used to stab...SO, it happens all over the world, not just in America...and not just to Muslims or those that look Middle Eastern.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Just tell me date and time will bring the whole QL group to pick you from airport :D
Beela where can I pick you up?...lol
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HE WHO DARES WINS
I like being picked on at the airport as it means I get to skip the long line ups! This always happens to me, but only when I fly into the US, not when I'm flying within Canada.
***
Veni, Vedi, Visa ~ I came, I saw, I shopped
Cynbob.. I agree with you on the fact that better safe then sorry.
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HE WHO DARES WINS
Please refer back to your posts and then decide whether good judgement has been displayed on your part.
It is you who has been confrontational. All I was doing was taking your lead and commenting on your comments.
I appreciate your passion. We just happen not to agree.
Again, it is your right not to identify with me or the USA.
Be thankful that you have the freedom to exercise these rights. Not everyone is that fortunate.
Examining life so it is worth living.
I wonder why women in headscarves and niqab are usually "randomly" selected for extra security checks.
AirTran apologizes for removing Muslim passengers
Fri Jan 2, 6:13 pm ET
WASHINGTON – AirTran Airways apologized Friday to nine Muslims kicked off a New Year's Day flight to Florida after other passengers reported hearing a suspicious remark about airplane security. One of the passengers said the confusion started at Reagan National Airport just outside Washington, D.C., when he talked about the safest place to sit on an airplane.
Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran said in a statement that it refunded the passengers' air fare and planned to reimburse them for replacement tickets they bought on US Airways. AirTran also offered to take the passengers back to Washington free of charge.
"We apologize to all of the passengers — to the nine who had to undergo extensive interviews from the authorities and to the 95 who ultimately made the flight," the statement said. "Nobody on Flight 175 reached their destination on time on New Year's Day, and we regret it."
AirTran said the incident was a misunderstanding, but the steps taken were necessary.
Two U.S. Muslim advocacy groups, however, were critical of the airline's actions. The Muslim Public Affairs Council called on federal officials Friday to open an investigation. And the Council for American-Islamic Relations filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Transportation, saying "It is incumbent on any airline to ensure that members of the traveling public are not singled out or mistreated based on their perceived race, religion or national origin."
Bill Adams, a DOT spokesperson, said the department thoroughly investigates discrimination complaints but would not comment further.
One of the Muslim passengers, Atif Irfan, said the family probably would not fly home with AirTran because members had already booked tickets on another airline, but appreciated the apology.
"It's definitely nice to hear," he said.
Irfan said when he boarded the flight Thursday, he mentioned something to his wife and sister-in-law about having to sit in the back. His sister-in-law replied that she believed the back of the airplane was the safest, but Irfan believed it was better to be by the wings.
"She said, 'Yes, I guess it makes sense not to be close to the engine in case something happens,'" Irfan recalled Friday. "It was a very benign conversation."
Shortly after taking their seats, members of the group were approached by federal air marshals and taken off the plane, Irfan said. They stood in the jet bridge connected to the airport and answered questions while other passengers exited and glared at them.
Irfan said he thought he and the others were profiled because of their appearance. The men had beards and the women wore headscarves, traditional Muslim attire.
"My wife and I are generally very careful about what we say when we step on the plane," he said, adding that they have received suspicious looks in the past. "We're used to this sort of thing — but obviously not to this extent."
Irfan, 29, is a lawyer who lives in Alexandria, Va. He was traveling to a religious retreat in Florida with his wife, along with his brother and his family, including three children, ages 7, 4 and 2. They were joined by his brother's sister-in-law and a family friend.
Federal officials ordered the rest of the passengers from the plane and re-screened them before allowing the flight to depart about two hours behind schedule. The family and friend eventually made it to their destination on a US Airways flight.
Family members were upset that AirTran didn't allow them to book another flight. The airline said in a news release Friday that one of the passengers became irate, made inappropriate comments and had to be escorted away from a gate podium by local law enforcement.
"We felt very disrespected," Irfan said. He said FBI agents had cleared their names and asked AirTran to put them on another flight, but to no avail.
Christopher White, a federal Transportation Security Administration spokesman, said the security concern on the plane was handled appropriately.
White said the pilot, after being informed of the remarks, requested that two federal air marshals on board remove the nine passengers. TSA then alerted authorities, including the FBI, which conducted an investigation.
"Our role, basically, is to determine whether (those) in question pose a threat," FBI spokesman Bill Carter said.
He and White said that once authorities determined there was no security threat, it was up to the airline on how to proceed.
"If the pilot is uncomfortable with someone flying on their plane, that's their decision," White said.
Discount carrier AirTran Airways is a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings Inc. Its hub is in Atlanta.
___
Associated Press Writer Jennifer Kay in Miami contributed to this story.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
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That is odd. You said that you did not want to identify with the USA.
you dont have to feel ashamed PM, your not responsible for the way your fellow Americans think, everyone is responsible for their own actions, no matter where they come from.
UKeng, yes they may have, but my point is that why werent they allowed on after they were escorted out, had a security checked and FBI cleared their names?
Anyway im outta this thread, theres enough wars going on right now,which is depressing enough, dont need another one here.
You're the one who posted the question. I just asked you the same question you asked me.
nadt they bought upon themselves by discussing safest place on the plane..
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HE WHO DARES WINS
You are very welcome. I do not have an issue with your signature. In fact, I was taking your lead. I should be thanking you and Socrates!
dont worry PM, im not fussed about his implications, this is what happens when you dont agree with people...
cynbob, security checks for every one yes,totally agree, but in this case they were checked and cleared and they still didnt let them back on the plane, that is the issue here, why?
At least some of us are thinking straight.
Security checks EVERYONE. Headscarf or not, that really isn't the point...although people are dead set on making that the issue.
And your comment, "if you were to bomb a plane"...I've never given that any thought. Obviously you have. You can answer your own question and come to your own conclusions.
I'm just examining life so that is worth living. As an American, you have every right to your opinion. You also have the right NOT to identify with the USA.
Your choice. Knock yourself out.
cynbob, i guess it was the beard ..seriously given the fact that all muslims are "potential terrorists", if you were to bomb a plane, do you think that a woman in a headscarf or a bearded man would be sent on the plane to do the job..
Agree with you Cynbob
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HE WHO DARES WINS
There are Indians with US citizenship.. Guess the Airline only found out later that they are full US citizens that they issued an apologise.
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HE WHO DARES WINS
best idea to sue the airlines so next time they will make sure of everything
They are US Citizen n been treated this way.
Just Imagine if any1 from Asia or MiddleEast
Wht would B his/her situation...?
God BLess all
Agree with you Notfromhere, i wonder if it was the dress code that prompted this action. having said that, i do agree with security, if there is any doubt, action should be taken, but why not let them continue with the flight after being cleared.
Thexonic, i like your comment, "same sh!t different day"
The airline personnel are trained to act responsibly in the event that there is a question of risk to the other passengers. Evidently, what was reported as to what was said was questionable enough to warrent the action taken. The pilot of the plane decides whether to take off or not. If there is any apprehension, the pilot could lose focus and not be able to fly the plane safely.
Safety is the main idea here. Heed the warnings and obey the rules to avoid trouble.
I have a friend that was questioned for nine hours in France after making small talk to another passenger about safety on the plane. Guess what? He is Anglo-American, but he does have a beard. He was frustrated but understood the precautions taken by the airline. He learned a lesson.
You can talk about civil rights all you want. Be my guest. It is better to be safe than sorry.
Just examining life so it can be worth living.
Makes you laugh afterwards, doesn't it? Actually, I start laughing in the middle when it gets kinda ridiculous. Makes you wonder if there is a hidden camera somewhere like in Candid Camera.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
and had a travel size bottle of contact solution with me in the liquids bag. For whatever reason, it set off one of the alarms and I got pulled aside. The tested it with litmus paper and said it turned color so I couldn't take it with me. Told them of COURSE it turned color..its mainly hydrogen peroxide...they tested it again...and of course, same response. I can't buy this certain brand where I live so I insisted they ask the official if something could be done...they did, then had me unpack my entire carryon and test for explosive residue, my shoes, each shoe in the case, inside my purse, over my body again...and then when they said everything was clear...she said...we still can't let you have the contact solution...sorry...Yes, I was totally put out because that part hadn't been explained to me...but not with the regulations, just the morons who didn't explain things well.
Regulations are put in place to PROTECT travelers and I say if I get put out by something that I know might red flag the officials, then its MY fault, not the country I an in or traveling to...for making my situation what it is.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Scarlett Had a similar experience when returning after helping affected people in the Pakistan earthquake a few years ago. Asked why I came there.. Forgod sake I came to help your people with £300,000 of British NGO funding.
Anyway after 1 hour of questioning at the airport on my way back to the UK I was allowed to resume to my flight. Later an army personel came and apologise about what the FIA had done.
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HE WHO DARES WINS
EXCEPT not letting them back on the plane when cleared of suspicion. If I speak of things like they did, safety of where to sit and anything else of that nature, I'd expect to be hauled off a plane also. It very clearly is announced in ALL American airports that ANY comments of this nature WILL be taken seriously as a threat. Common sense tells us that we should heed the warning...ALL OF US, not just the Muslims that cover.
Like Alexa, I have been hauled into the offices of security, and had my things gone through JUST because I was asked if I was American and I said yes...and this happened twice on the same flight out of Spain! I didn't take it as prejudiced, even if it WAS directly after 9/11, but I certainly could have if I wanted to get my knickers in knot. It cost me about 45 minutes of my time bu the time my luggage was totally unpacked(by me!), examined, xrayed and re-xrayed, repacked (by me), got my passport back after having to answer endless questions for WHY I was in Spain...then get to the gate only to be asked for my passport again, taken immediately to the side along with my friend who is also American..had to unpack the suitcase AGAIN, get the wand passed over me, shoes inspected for explosive residue, repack the bag...we ended up being the first people to get to leave the gate but the last to board the plane....so don't think its just Muslims or middle easterners who get yanked off airplanes for racial, religious or profiling reasons.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked,the good fortune to run into the ones I do,and the eyesight to tell the difference.
you know what, the scene that you have mentioned from Harold and Kumar is exactly what emerged in my mind when i saw the news yesterday. :)
But Brit .. With the current climate espeically in the US. Why were they talking about sitting in the safest place on the Aeroplane.. You have to give benefit of the doubt to the airline, not matter whatever the reason was.
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HE WHO DARES WINS
PM I meant that in the gulf times it reads that that they are of south asian decent and all six are traditionally Muslim in appearance with the men wearing beards and the women in headscarves.
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HE WHO DARES WINS
Sorry, got to disagree with you. It doesn't matter if they're black, blue, Pink, dressed in thobes or turbans, they should not be treated like this..
Feel sorry for the Airline.. What do you expect a large party of ******** looking people all together on the plane sitting together..
Should never have happened but in the name of security I am all for it.. Better safe than sorry. Plus they have received an apologise and free tickets, what else hey..
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HE WHO DARES WINS
Better add AirTran to the boycott thread, PM :-)
Utter nonsense, in my opinion. And in my experience as well.
I don't really follow how discussing where to sit on the plane is "suspect". If a family who weren't wearing headscarves and beards were having the same discussion, would they have been considered suspect?
Glad there was an apology; it was deserved. Would also be nice if the people who reported them would apologize for their ignorance.
Air Tran apologized to the family; refunded the passengers' airfare and planned to reimburse them for replacement tickets. US Airways also offered to take the family back to Washington free of charge.
Atif Irfan, one of the family members, said the apology was "definitely nice to hear."
It sounds like if the family members had not been talking about the safest place to sit on a plane, this would not have happened. There continues to be "no nonsense" mentality when in US airports and boarding planes.
It just isn't good idea to talk about anything that can draw suspicion. When close to 4000 lives were lost on 9-11, expect everyone to be screened and questioned if suspect. Case closed.
I say better to be safe than sorry.
same sh!t different day.
--------
Lebanon... the love of my soul!
The passenger who claimed and the Airline should apologize.
If you put yourself in there shoes you can feel the insult and the looks from every one you and your family had faced.
Even me when I board an aeroplane I prefer to sit in the front. I dont like sitting in the back and near the wings coz my ears cant take the noise and I feel womitting. When I was a kid I use to womit all the time if I will sit in the back of the aeroplane and coz of me my father has to fly all the time in first class which is quite expensive. So now I have grown up and now I know what is the trick. I dont eat 12 hours before the flight and I dont feel womitting. I do eat little onboard but I dont eat before flight.
Peace.
Security cleared and then thrown out!!! wow
______________________________________________
Every society is judged by how
it treats it's least fortunates.
exactly brit, and how people can stretch truth is unbelievable.
video: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/01/01/family.grounded/index.html
US,to get insulted..they should be prepared to face the 'home security' with all sorts of discriminations with rest of EU and US citizens (non-muslims only)! sound very sarcasting but TRUE
No..I am all for security, but I take exception when moronic passengers can get someone thrown off.
Obviously they had already cleared all security checks. The person(s) complaing should be held accountable also.
An apology is definitely due.
i saw that yesterday and it was not nice. Did you see the video?