Motherhood or Work?
(Excerpt from: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article...)
When applying for jobs, the question that seems most important is not one of salary expectations or work experience but when the female candidate plans to have her next child or how the female candidate plans to juggle her career and her family.
The entire interview gets dominated by personal questions as the interviewer tries to grill his way through the private life of the applicant. Too many potential employers fail to appreciate the desire of most women to create some sort of balance between family life and work.
All too often, eyebrows are raised and eyes are rolled with disgust at a woman's reluctance to work inflexible hours. Comparisons are made with the male counterparts, citing the long hours they put in at the office. What many individuals don't recognise is that most men are not loaded with the extra responsibilities of managing the children and running a household.
Handling a full-time job and a household requires an extra commitment and a significant amount of extra effort, and while some women may still be willing to go the extra mile, the aforementioned circumstances make it almost impossible for them to succeed. A number of women who do take a break from their career to raise a family are then forced to question whether they can re-enter the workforce in a meaningful role again.
breakfast on weekends, give them bath when they were young, it was just to show our affection, love and sharing responsibilities with your partner but thats not the question in this thread.
tallg: Your question need minor changes, "Are men capable of bringing up children?" Men are definitely capable of doing all type of jobs.
It should say...ONLY FOR MEN
Does men willingly or unwillingly accept the role of a House Husband and allow his wife to run family show?
1) Yes, 2) No, 3) Hire a Maid to assist housework or 4) May accept if demand arise.
Go ahead guys
when they were newly born. I am a good cook, do market chores, ironing clothes, etc. etc. except for cleaning the house which I'm not good at. My friends says I am a good "HOUSEBAND". But I do it when I'm home. My wife do the same, but she's also employed (not as a necessity but as she wished). But if I am given preference, I would stick to the classic "wife stays home and take care of the children"!.
"dgoodrebel will always be the rebellious good one"
good luck tallg! you can do it. my own dad shared the chores with my mom when she was still alive: taking care of kids, washing the clothes, helping us with our homeworks and cooking which is his best trait. even when my mom was around, dad is the the breakfast chef. and when my mom passed away when i was 13, he continued doing this while asuming all the other chores. really, up till now i could not imagine how he cope with everything and, to think he has a job outside of home! because of this,i always have great respect for fathers who are there for their children. for me they are the real men.
ROFLMAO at your 3rd option Tallg!
even the winds are changing! It's part of 'global warming' I may say. LOL! In fact, househusbands are great! We, women can forget small lapses/spoofs but, we're fine with them. (as long as they don't wear our bras & panties!) ha!ha!ha!
"I do live by the motto that pessimists are usually right, but all the great change in history was done by optimists" -Thomas Friedman
amoud - ask QL admin to run a poll;
Are men capable of bringing up children:
- Yes
- No
- Why bother when the maid is doing a great job?
Victor, do you honestly think ladies are going to come here and say their husbands would be terrible stay at home dads? How many opinions do you need? I can start a new thread if you like.
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I totally agree and appreciate tallg as devoted househusband and all ladies...supporitng the views.
I am very well aware that Paterntiy leave is a normal concept and seriously followed in western society.
I had also been with a MNC (bank) for over 15 years and seen very closely their culture and mind-set.
As einstind said things are changing in India, fine I accept it; but at very slow pace and in MNC's in metros, what about local labour laws? are they supporting this concept.
I still see only 4 ladies defending and need more to debate on this topic.
Yup all the time Amoud. Thanks Tallg but I'm cooking for myself now. :)
There's still some left if you want me to send round a food parcel.
Hmm, Gypsy did you get the hotdogs on white bread? I hated that. _____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
LOL! Lemon sorbet. I was happy when my dad cut up hotdogs and put them on the mini pizzas. :P
Well I'm not quite up to teaching standard. The lemon sorbet wasn't quite up to scratch, if I'm being ultra-critical ;)
Wait Gypsy, you didnt ask him......
Tallg, did you do the washing up also?
____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
ROFL tallg! You should give my Dad some tips then!
Aw, thanks guys. I wasn't fishing for compliments, honest :D
And don't worry gypsy, I've progressed well past the frozen ready meal stage. When the wife's out the house 12 hours a day you feel you should cook dinner for her at least once a week!
And the 4 course meal I knocked up for Valentine's last night was pretty damn good, if I do say so myself!
Victor...I was working in a MNC in Bangalore where they provide paid leave for the fathers to take care of the kids( for a max of 6 mnths) .....It is a MNC (software cmpny based in India)...
Just wanted to re-iterate that things are changing in India too.....
Do u think "MEN sitting at home and women working" wud have ever happenned in India?But you admit that there are exceptions u cud see now....This clearly states that "things are changing in India too".
Especially in this day and age, with technology where it is, it's entirely possible for at least one spouse to work from home, depending on their job. That's one of the reasons my father was home for part of my childhood. That way, neither one has to give up work, and the children have a parent at home.
I agree, Tallg you have the can do attitude so you will be a wonderful stay at home Dad.
I must say, I love to see a Dad take the role of house Dad. It shows how secure he is in himself, his relationship and his capabilities. Perhaps this is why it is a western idea where a woman doesnt have to wear the proverbial pants to be the one working out of the house. I find we generally dont have those descriptions, just because he is a stay at home Dad doesnt not dimish his household authority etc (which by the way most westerners share in this authority anyway)____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
VB, Yes the idea of the father staying home might still be new in Asian Socitey, but in the West it's becoming more and more commonplace. In fact, many private companies and the anyone who works for the public (ie government officials, military, RCMP, hospitals, teachers) get 1 year maternity leave and 1 year paternity leave, either of which can be taken within 2 years of the childs birth, so in the West we are realizing the importance of at least one parent staying home with the child.
Tallg, I have no doubt you could...although I do recommend you learn to cook more then Kraft Dinner and mini pizzas which was all my Dad could manage. :P
VB - you need to open your eyes! It's not something that "may be possible with time", it's already happened. Women all over the world are already proving the "role reverse". And they've done it because they chose to, not because they were forced to as askme thinks.
So amoud/gypsy - Do you think I'll be alright then, bringing up a baby?
and accept these circumstantial evidence,
which are mere exceptions. But how many cases we have, a few, could count on fingures.
My views are general and how many QLer's are defending just 2 asians and 2 western ladies.
We need more females to come up (enter the debate) and show that They are not only mothers but also whole family runner and bread earner, a big contributor to the society.
The role reverse may be possible with TIME even with Asian females but They need to stand up and prove with Men's competency levels.
Too true, my sisters husband stayed home with the kiddies while she worked. He did a splendid job I must say, and cooked the meals and such. He isnt a girly guy either, hunting, fishing beer drinking kind og guy who weighs in at around 230 lbs at 6'+. He is secure in himself and didnt think he was a "kept man"
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Victor, If u are talking about Indian ladies,I should tell you that u are far behind the scene/world.Women go to work not only for money but for their career and keeping them upgraded with the latest happenings around the world.This helps her to cope up with her kids as well.
And as for as defining men and women responsibilities are concerned...yes, it was there and it is stil there but things are changing ....U can see a lot of house husbands(I know only about Indians) here in Qatar and their wives are working.I can show u atleast 15 people whom I know.
We cannot say that the reverse role of MAN is impossible..Things are changing towards equality and hope it is for good...
I've known lots of Fathers' who've stayed home with their kids and done just as good a job as Moms. Hell when I was growing up, part of the time my Mom was home and part of the time my Dad was home. Frankly one of the reasons my father and I are so close now is that he was the one that was home with my brothers and I when I was a kid. I think I'm really lucky in this respect because a lot of people I know don't have close relationships with their dads because they weren't home.
I think it's important, if possible, for one parent to be home, at least till the children are in junior high. But I really don't think it matters which parent.
for us women,having a job utilizes our skills as a person (not only as a mother & wife)and that's one of the reasons why we want to have a job outside of the home. for ages, women are defined as daughters then wives then moms. it seems that we are defined for what we perform for others. but this is not enough and will never be enough.
on the role reversal, why not? fathers can care for their kids just as good as the mothers.i should know this as i (together with my 4 siblings)was raised by my father.
it is difficult/impossible....due to age old tradition and our family set-up with up-bringing in such environment plus above all religious commandments, plays a major role in defining men and women responsibilities.
Why is it difficult/impossible?
job and money become an addiction sometimes; even woman don't really need financial support but as they worked for a number of years (over 5 years) and could not think to live without a job.
If money is really concerned, father should share equal responsibilities and social commitments with working mother.
As in the case referred by tallg, it is difficult / impossible for a MAN to reverse the role in a family set- up.
Amoud - on the various occasions I have dressed up as a lady I've always received comments on how good I look!
VB said "But what a woman/mother who could provide love and care to a child, it could not never be compared by father's love and care."
So do you believe that I wont be able to properly "love and care" for my child when my wife finishes maternity leave and goes back to work, and I stay at home to look after the baby?
We could easily survive if I went back to work and my wife stayed at home, but we've decided to do it this way. Which brings me back to my point that women can choose. If they choose to because of "human wants" then so be it, but it's still their choice. I'm not denying humans want a lot these days and that may be the reason women choose to go back to work. My issue is with the assertion by askme that they've been forced to go back.
Of course Tallg lol, your avatar shows what an attractive lady you are lmao.
I guess I have to say, I just wanted to work. I think it was to prove that i am as good if not better than my male counterparts. I acheived that in many ways, and I did quit working when money wasnt an issue so I am admitting a bit if bias. ____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
I agree that some women have reasons why they want to work (even if the hubby can afford the family), especially if they want to pursue a career that they've been wanting before she enters into a motherhood stuffs. But I don't believe that the greed for power (as what I understand askme wrote here). Well, maybe it's 'pride' but not all women think the same.
"I do live by the motto that pessimists are usually right, but all the great change in history was done by optimists" -Thomas Friedman
I too go with Askme and Amoud...plus in my views, being we humans have insatiable (never ending/satisfying) wants. To make our needs attended; we all required to do hardwork in the maximum possible manner.
But what a woman/mother who could provide love and care to a child, it could not never be compared by father's love and care.
However, we are living in a modern society, where we follow a certain type of life-style (quite demanding and asking to maintain a specific level of standard of living); which is sometime difficult to be provided by one bread earner/spouse in a family, this makes call for another spouse to contribute financially.
Small list of human wants (In general):
1) Professional education to compete the job market or well established business for livelyhood.
2) A good job with handsome package.
3) Career growth with future prospects.
4) A beautiful/handsome partner to care and share.
5) Healthy and smart children.
6) Life without hassles.
7) Over 20-40% of saving for future planning.
8) Good investment either in global share market or in gold, in real estate (Dubai Palm, Doha Pearl or in own country) as post-retirement savings.
blah blah blah....
Now tell me if we have such a huge wish list....
whom you will give first priority.....MONEY OR KIDS....
Obviously kids with MORE MONEY then the option remain open with Mother to decide what is best for HER and HER CHILD....
Some women also go back to work purely because they want to, even if they don't need the money. Hence my point - it's their choice.
btw - were you inferring I am a women???!
Lol, Tallg, we are just dumb womenfolk ;)
As I said, Askme is missing an integral issue on his posting, one being some people NEED the money, and some families have completely different dynamics. He may not be able to comprehend this as back home we generally need 2 incomes where here is it genrally not an issue for 2 reasons. 1 being that most of the men of our households make enough money to keep a family, and 2, a womans place in the home is considered her role. She shouldnt have to worry herself with financial aspects not because it is a prinitive way for a man to control his woman but rather she has enough on her plate taking care of her household.
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
Amoud but what about those women who are working in the feilds with the babies on their backs?
It not only now that woman have to work. Through out civilisation women have played an active part in bring up of the family, both inside and outside of the house..
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
Yes, I totally agree woman are nurturers and in the past they traditionally stayed at home, and I would never argue that staying at home to look after children isn't a full time, difficult job. In fact, I plan to take this role up myself in the near future.
But the crux of the matter is in your last sentence - it's up to the woman to choose. I take issue with askme's assertion that women have been "trapped" into working, as if they're being forced to. The whole tone of the comment implied that women should know their place and not be going out to work, which is definitely an "old fashioned" notion.
Actually Tallg, there is a bit of truth to what askme is saying, although he may have missed the fact that a lot of families need 2 incomes, and that all family dynamics and needs are different.
We women are nurturers, in the past it was just accepted that women would stay home. In all actuality, staying home and raising well rounded children is more difficult that going out to work. There is nothing sexist in this, nor should it be construed as an "old fashioned" notion. If you choose as a woman to work outside the home good luck but I do feel that it is critical for children to have have their mothers around.
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
He is still in year 1430 tallg..
do you get it?
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
yep
What century are you living in askme?
In the beginning there was Adam and Eve.. The role of work was never decided by God..
These are the roles that humans have assigned to each other not God..
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
I was until recently a career lady. Great job, eccellent pay and even better benefits. It was a struggle for me to give it all up but in reality my family needed me more than the job did. Granted the extra money was great but my hubbys career has taken off thank god and he is earning more than enough to keep us.
I made the decision to take care of my family and stay home. I managed both for a long time but now when I think about it I did neither to the best of my ability. Now that I am home, my children are happier, healthier and to be honest developing much better than when I was gone for 8 hours of the day. Also, the extra TLC I can offer my hubby has made his life a lot more comfortable and in turn he is also happier and more relaxed with our situation.
Not having to rush out the door everymorning, or back home in the afternoon etc. has left me more time to take care of my #1 priority, a happy healthy family.
_____________________________________________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock - Will Rogers"
work in the office is just 'one of her routines'.(Except she earns a salary from it).LOL!
"I do live by the motto that pessimists are usually right, but all the great change in history was done by optimists" -Thomas Friedman
Allah (God) has created man and women for different purpose and role. For example man even want to have baby cannot get one, that does not mean women are not equal to man or equal right. When you perform the role you are designed for- you will be the best and no one can beat you, but once you try to interface or cross the boundary which you are not fit for all sort of complexion arises.
Today- greed or modernization, luxury, lust, galmour, money, power and sex has eroded the human value, family bond and cause natural disbalance.
In old days female used to control house and work in home where as man work hard to support family. But sorry to say that greed for more power and money (cunning designed formula from so called liberals and moderm men) female today on name of equal right and freedom has been trapped into the web. Now a female (without realizing or not) has to work double competing with a man and even she has to bear child (man cannot).
While Interviewing an Assitant Engineer for a job, I asked the female Engineer how can she multi task and give me an example.. She mentioned about here every day routine which was
"I get up in the morning get my 3 year old ready for Nursery and get my self ready for work, serving her breakfast and then dropping her at the Day Nursery and then making it to work, and then picking her up on the way home"
Now that really touched me and I thought damm look at me all I do is just get up and get to work and then home again. She was offered the job which she accepted..
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
(household chores + fetching kids in schools + active member of school PTA , etc.) and after they've grown up, able to walk by their own, reason back with you & knows how to choose their own style...then you start finding your dream job.(Works for me!)
"I do live by the motto that pessimists are usually right, but all the great change in history was done by optimists" -Thomas Friedman
Questions like that wouldn't be allowed in a job interview in the UK.
...
But one thing for sure that I foound with women especially the ones with families were the ones that worked hard..
-----------------
HE WHO DARES WINS
This is why I like Canada. Because of issues like this flexible work hours are now given to both mothers and fathers. Because fathers should be home bonding with their kids just as much as mothers.