Maid trouble - Part three

As of now any if anyone has questions on Islam or any suject outside of the topic in the OP then either please pm me, or if like slapper you find by any chance an issue,though I know my pm option is surely working cos I have already received a pm since this morning though not from slapper, then open up a thread in the religious forum and post the link. Thank you all.Slapper I sent you a test pm. did you get it? Anyways I'm now off to enjoy my weekend and will be back at night,Inshallah. So will respond to anyone either tonight or tommorow. A very good day to you all and wish everyone a wonderful weekend!

Edifis really are the followers of Budhism(no idea about Jains) really less sinful? Cos I come from a Buddhist country and have Buddhist uncles,aunties, and cousins and I can assure you thats not the case.Cos afterall isn't even the word "sinful" perceived differently from person to person,society to society, and even religion to religion?Edifis: These people,the sinful Muslims, are misguided due to their own actions and deeds. They chose to believe what they want and shun gaining proper knowledge. Its a choice they make for their own reasons. God has given us the ability to chose and if we make the wrong choice then we bring on our own destruction.Its not God to be blamed,he gave us all the "materials" so to speak, so its upon us to seek out the right knowledge and do what's right without getting impatient and over emotional which is the case with many of those who chose to do whats wrong.

I swear to God I got no PM from you! Send it again please...

Why are the majority of the muslims misguided? If it were the religion prescribed by the true God why would God leave so many of it's followers misguided & sinful?

The followers of Buddhism or Jainism are far less sinful than the others.....so isn't it prudent to say that their God is the true God?

Fathima - you invited me to discuss Islam further with a PM. I did with no response from you. Are you are serious? 

There is a man with loads of money & a rude fat nagging wife.There is this pretty woman miles away from her family & friends and no provider......... These things are inevitable.

And very true...we must all learn to practice what we preach. Not just for ourselves but for our children too. All these kids you see abusing their maids wherever we go...rest assured they are most likely to be imitating their parents and/or other grown ups in their family. And in turn they grow up with that idealogy. Its of no good getting kids to read the Quran and then encourage them to act against it when its to our convinience. We may not be scholars but at least we can try to be a good example to those around us.Looking forward to hearing from you...I'm quite an idle housewife myself =))

Brilliant explanation, thanksFatimaH, the basic philosophy of Islam, Bible, and Ramayana is same. Only it lacks follower. Probably only ladies and old man follows them faithfully now a days and young generation are least concerned in religion. To make money or enjoy life is their only motto even if hurts some one, or against the religion, they are least concerned.Father said – Why did you steal papers from bag of your class mate, I could have brought from my office. That is what we do – Only teachI shall be sending you PM shortly as I have many questions to ask.

I am not offended. Islam is by far a very misunderstood religion. And I don't blame non Muslims for this for its the misguided ignorant sinful so called Muslims themselves who have brought on these misconceptions.habibthy, terrorists are NOT martys. they are misguided extremists. And our Prophet called these extremists the dogs of hellfire! They think they are upon the truth...they think they are  martys but they are far from both. The people who praise these evil terrorists like Kasab are also misguided and ignorant not to mention very dangerous to society.They have fallen into error due to their emotions,greed,impatience,lack of studying the actual texts but misinterpreting the meanings to suit their agendas,etc. And yes they too are large in number but never presume that a majority always is upon the right.I repeat Islam does not call terrorists martys...no way! Terrorists are murderers and a murderer is denied paradise in Islam.Yes today the number of Muslims who actually follow Islam as it was revealed in the Quran and taught by the Prophet are very few in number. And as time goes by its going to get less not more!I, as an individual will,Inshallah till my dying breath both teach and practice Islam but I cannot ensure others will do the same...its not in my power. I do praise Islam because I know that if Islam is followed as it should be non of these conflicts and terrors will happen. Islam is far from being a religion of oppression. Islam teaches justice. But again its lacking true followers.And finally if you have any questions on Islam please feel free to either PM me or take it to the "Religion forum" so I can answer you there. Sorry again mods and OP!!

Fatima H I have read many of your very nice opinion of QL and I admire your knowledge and thoughts and high regards for your valuable thoughts. However you sound too idealistic and always praise Islam. Every one knows what is written in Quran but how many are true followers? May be 5% . Every one knows, the whole world is suffering because of act of some of the members of this community who never wants other to live peacefully and progress.  Many countries spends large amount on defense to safeguard against these people which would have been utilized to eradicate poverty. By the way, what actions Islam propose to the persons who do not follow the Islamic rules? Nothing rather if terrorist is killed, he becomes martyr in Islam. Even person like Kasab are praised. Don’t teach what Islam says; ensure that it is implemented by the community so that world can exist peacefully Sorry if I offend you in any way.

I am...but you know the whole "right time and right place" bit. I can discuss this topic forever if given the right place. Perhaps we need a more flexible forum where open discussions can take place without the fear of a thread been locked or a user being banned. Don't forget slapper I come from a family of all faiths. I have direct family members who are Muslims,Christians,Budhists, Hindus, Atheists,etc. And we are all for open discussions..in fact specially in the recent years this is something I do a lot! So give me the right place and we can discuss away! 

Fathima - just like this country, it looks as if you are not serious in your 'commitment" to open disussion. 

Don't lose heart yet...Inshallah sooner or later it will come to an end. Hopefully more international bigwigs and organizations will apply the right pressure that will make those in authority take action pronto and end maid/employee abuses once and for all. As it is we can see some kind of actions being taken by certain countries at least as mentioned in the OP "The Kingdom has been under fire from local and foreign human rights groups over the death of some housemaids, who have been reportedly killed by their employers" All it takes is a collective effort by international power houses to ensure that sooner than later maid abuse will become a thing of the past!

and the organization where you belong to play a lot when it comes to discipline. It may spell the difference between true and false"And to be honest I don't think to such demonic individuals who cause such anguish to others actually believe or care if they are expelled from Islam due to their sins. I doubt they bother what God has to think drunk as they are on evil and arrogance". So FAthimah, can I conclude that maids' abuse will not stop in this region?

But isn't that why most if not all crimes are committed today. The lack of fear.. people don't fear God,hell or even the law makers anymore. Look around us.. how many terrible crimes are being committed today and so many criminals are being freed after just "slaps on their wrists" type penalties.Of course there are courts and people of authority to report to. Like the cops, judges, etc. But so many of them are corrupt that these terrible inhuman acts are going either tottally unpunished or with some minor penalty. And to be honest I don't think to such demonic individuals who cause such anguish to others actually believe or care if they are expelled from Islam due to their sins. I doubt they bother what God has to think drunk as they are on evil and arrogance. Take the crime of oppression..Islam warns that oppresors will face great punishments for their crime and yet does this deter the man hell bent on oppressing? No it dosen't cos obviously he does not care or fear God, religion,law makers etc. Likewise murder. We know a person who murders another unlawfully will enter hell yet do you think any of those thrill killers out there care what Islam has to say. For such people only harsh punishments will work in this world,when they are caught, for they clearly don't care about the hearafter and don't fear hell and God.

NOBODY is in command? Nobody to report to? If you report it to Sharia court, will the wrondoer be expelled or would just be meted jailterm or financial penalty?Precisely the reason why these abuses against maids and other persons (such as labors and employees) occured frequently because they are not afraid that they will be removed from Islam, thus will not inherit the heaven.

I don't know...Back then when the Prophet died his companions were alive and able to take control and do what they had to do in order to punish wrongdoers. Then after those first three genaration past there came about others who were not as strongwilled and upright.As of now the people who should take actions,the rulers and those placed in charge, are clearly not doing all they should to quell evil. Things seem to be getting from bad to worse.Today we have scholars who are night and day calling people to do what's right and just and to shone evil actions and oppressions, and yet these scholars are not given any authority or rights to bring the wrong doers to the book.Their voices are hardly heard except by those who actually already fear their Lord and are out there seeking knowledge.I believe wrong doing will be corrected before the day of judgement at the very least by the second coming of 'Isa/ Jesus Peace be upon Him. He will be the just ruler who the whole world needs today.Our Prophet prophesized the widespread of evil and turmoil surrounding the re apearance of Jesus, and God protect us,that's exactly how things seem to be heading towards now.

authority? HAve you not thought that after the prohet died, theer should be somebody to take his place administratively and can decide for the whole? That is the test of unity.Who is Allah"s voice now?  Do you mean wrongdoing will not be corrected until judgment day?

The punishments should be implemented but are not. As I said before Wasta and money go a long long way.Islam does have fixed penalties,ie mentioned in the Quran and/or the hadiths for adultery,rape,murder,torture etc but the chances of them been carried out is far less now than at the time of our Prophet. Someone in authority needs a good hard wake up call to take action now and stop these attrocities. Make an example of those who are caught and fear not the blame of the blamers. Am I expecting too much or will this day come?God alone  knows!! 

Yes you are right as in to say a rich man who has a more relaxed life can on an average visit more prostitutes or have more lovers than a guy who is not as better off but in SL I know many many men do take mistresses and/or visit prostitutes whilst been married,even those who struggle to make ends meet and have many responsibilities.Its considered quite normal for a great number of folks so much so that if a guy cheats he has he's buddies support and help!So many marriages/relationships of even very close friends and family members of mine have either ended or gone through a terrible patch due to their partners been unfaithful.  And for me cheating on your partner even once in a lifetime is still very very bad. Bottom line is Gadarene(I'm sorry if I ever mispell your user name,k? its a tough one to type specially when I'm sleepy!) whether a man does it once or a hundred times over unfaithfullness is just something I find very unpardonable. And when it is done by people who should know better it just becomes all the more sickening. 

such wrongdoing are knowingly tolerated and since your religion don't have expulsion, such wrongdoing will never be corrected.Islam has no overall administration that conrols the needs of the Muslim community as a whole. Jurisdiction is mostly localized.  Conflicts in announcement of different Imams are not settled by any administrative supervisor per se.Such issue as abuse of maids, womanizing, alcohol, etc etc, unless such action (already condemned in Islam) has a corresponding punishment (not as a rule) but as implemented NOW, then it could be a deterrent.

@ Fatimah "our Asian guys" on average WORK for a living,MAJORITY of them do not have million dollar bank accounts & the free time to go on jaunts as they please,so to say that these guys are no better or worse than the guys back in Sri Lanka is at the very least unfair as well as untrue...there is also no statistic to say GULF Arab men DON'T cheat more than the others or that ALL men or ALL Asian men cheat as much as these guys,it is merely a matter of perception..."Are Arabs or the so called "Muslims" more hypocritical?" by asking that question you're clubbing all together or at least implying it while I wish to be very specific...I am NOT referring to ALL Muslim men,I am NOT referring to ALL Arab men, ONLY GULF Arab men,simply because a LOT of them DO NOT work for a living or at least don't work 9-5 jobs,A LOT of them have BOTH the time AND the means to be able to "indulge" FAR more than "our Asian guys" & a lot of others...valid points wouldn't you agree?...You expect better as you rightly stated,but unfortunately our expectations aren't always met,such is life... 

Yeah exactly Fatimah. If this guys could only practice what they preach and stop thinking and acting that they are above the others then their place would be a better place for themselves , the employees and everybody else.  The way this guys have been abusing, beating, torturing and even murdering helpless employees sends a very bad signal about not only its people but also about their  goverments who at times seem to be blind to whats going on in their countriesReligion teaches people to respect and to be tolerant to others and the less fortunate and not to abuse them or maybe the teachings are  different out there in their places. 

Thanks for the clarification DK

edifis, you got it right. 'wajib' means MANDATORY, 'mandub' means PREFERRED or RECOMMENDED, 'mubah' means OPTIONAL, 'makruh' is something which is wrong and is punishable by God, 'haraam' is something which is prohibited and punishable by law.

DK What does these words ‘wajib’, ‘mandub’, ‘mubah’, ‘makruh’ and ‘haram’ mean?

I only know haaram....so I expect the others are from bad to good in that order....

is that so? 

Tell it to them. He's got it initiated

I wish the same. Problem is the ulema who do condemn these attrocities are not the one's who gain international platforms. They are to a great extent ignored and unheard by those who wish to spread such misconceptions and evil.The teachings of those so called scholars, who are themselves corrupt and ignorant are the one's who thsese men conviniently adhere  to.But Inshallah sooner or later all this will come to an end. Just like many great oppressions and crimes this to will come to pass. Already we are seeing at least some kind of changes occuring. The world will not turn a blind eye on all this forever. IMO these are the things worth fighting against!

Thankyou Fathima..I wish people, including the Ulemas in KSA have the same prudence as yours to tell the difference between maids and slaves!!

A maid is not equal to a slave. Having sexual relations with a maid is,no mincing words and no exceptions, haraam and adultery, and should rightfully be punished by shriah law. But here is where wasta,money,corruption etc come in to play. Sad to say many wives don't bother to report their husbands either for their own reasons.However if they wish they can with clever detective work easily catch him out in the act and hand him over to the authorities. But again perhaps they know how corrupt certain law makers are so will not do so. But any true religious scholar of Islam,who truly follows the Quran and Sunnah will tell you that these acts are  by all means haraam,despicable and carries great punishments by God both in this world and the next. Rather than preventing Morrocan's from becoming maids I wish these wives concentrated more of ridding themselves and society itself of such filthy individuals who bring such disrepute and corruption to the land where in lies the most sacred places to us Muslims.Sorry mods and GOJ if this post is in anyway violating QL guidlines. I'm assuming its after all a part of the topic posted.

Fathima,

As you know, the Sharia is based on ‘usul al fiqh’ which is the legal interpretation of the Quran and the Sunnah. As per ‘usul al fiqh’, human actions which are covered by law are categorized as ‘wajib’, ‘mandub’, ‘mubah’, ‘makruh’ and ‘haram’.

The problem lies here…if, having sexual relations with a female slave (maid- in modern context) is not categorized as ‘haram’, it’s not punishable by law. If this is categorized as ‘mubah’ or ‘makruh’, its supposed to be punishable by God. Now, do you think, the government would ever be able to curb such loathsome practices if they follow this philosophy? The clever Saudi men know they are not going to get punished anyways.

Poor wives cry foul and feel cheated when they come to know about their husbands’ relations with the maids but unfortunately cannot sue them in court. Both, husbands and wives know very well, such relations are not punishable by the sharia law as it’s not considered ‘haram’ nor treating a maid like one’s sister is ‘wajib’!! So, it’s an open playing field with no referee :-/

I am not surprised why Saudi wives don’t want to have good looking maids…

Fathima - no problem

Please anymore questions on Islam pm it to me not cos I'm afraid in anyway of what you ask me, but cos I hate breaking rules anywhere I go,which is very un Islamic too. Mods have made it clear religion is not to be discussed in the main forum and so lets honor the rules,k?But please feel free to ask me anything on pm and I will answer you as best as I can.

The punishment for apostasy is left to the ruler of the country who may or may not punish the apostate depending on how serious was his/her crimes surrounding him/her leaving the faith. Like during the lifetime of the Prophet there were some men who claimed to become Muslim and asked our Prophet for help. They were sick and so he sent them with a camel herder to help cure them. Then these men apostated,killed the camel herder and also stole the camels so they were when caught put to death for murder and armed robbery along with apostating.This was then taken to mean that all apostates who leave the faith are to be killed which is not the case.On the other hand there were men who commited acts of apostacy and who the Prophet didn't punish. Of them one came back to been a Muslim and was forgiven and accepted back as a Muslim and the other died a non Muslim. Today we see some rulers put their subjects to death for apostacy and some don't. As individuals we cannot kill anyone who leaves the faith nor punish them. This is what I know and God knows best. 

FATHIMA- of course right and wrong didnt happen overnight. Our moral stds comes from us iving together in a society where cohesion and coperation means survival and to progress - togther. The story shows that the golden rule lives within us all in spite of religion.I do not  live a life based on faith. I have good reason and justification in what I believe in and use this to help me undetrstand my world around me, what is occurring, why and how they affect me.  This helps me get through life by ensuring I make more  good descions than bad as they are based on reality, reason and truth. This cannot be said for the religious. You say " And Islam is all about being a good moralistic human being who promotes all things right and just and condemns evil and injustice"I challenge this - tell me about your religion. What is the punishment for apostasy????????????

You are one of the sweetest gals up here...thank you so much for all your words. Very encouraging and I sure need it =)) xox

My only comment to this topic is that I wish every QL'er had the patience, attitude and fairness of FathimaH. Your posts are a pleasure to read and your reaction to 'provocative comments' is perfect. Thank you dear Lady :)

I have NEVER been and Inshallah never will be defensive of wrongdoers regardless of whether they are Arabs/Musims/Sri Lankans/or even my own family.. period! And yes I have been observant around here and see these men to be no better or worse than the guys we get back in SL(ofcourse its next to impossible for me to verify the Beirut and Bangkok bit but I've heard many guys go back there for fun again including our Asian guys). To say there are more womanizers here is what I can't agree with cos there is no statistic to say Arab men cheat more than non Arabs. Are Arabs or the so called "Muslims" more hypocritical? Perhaps but then again maybe I see it this way cos I expect better from those who not only claim to be Muslims but also know Arabic fluently which is the language of the Quran.

@ fatimah,like it or not,it's the truth about Gulf Arab men being bigger womanizers than the rest,i don't need to prove anything,this is a known fact,just open your eyes & look around you in Doha or better still,make a trip to Beirut or Bangkok if you want to the see "proof"!!!...i say again,ALL men do it as do women BUT not all of them are hypocritical about it like these guys,pretending to be "good Muslims" while the truth of their lives is the exact opposite...there's no need to get defensive about it 'cos like it or not,it's the truth...

This is true and this is where our jihad lies...battling our own evil desires =(

As the discussion has side tracked from today maids to the ancient Slave trade.Lets not forget where the Black  Americans came from. To your point Edifis you could use that same time frame when the Blacks in US started to speak for equal rights.

FathimaH unfortunatley we are all slaves to our desires!

And do remember this whole slavery system was many years ago. And there were actually people then who didn't mind been slaves to certain kind and rich masters who looked after them well since that saved them the pain of being jobless and poor. For such people losing their position might have actually hurt them more than benifiting them which is why it was better rather than the whole system been made Haraam to actually encourage the freeing of those slaves seeking freedom. Today I doubt, with the developing of times,anyone would want to be a slave willingly.

Fathima, I agree, the time Islam was conceived by the Prophet, the state of affaires were pretty bad there. The prophet managed to uproot many evils and unite the tribes under a common name. This moulded the entire history of the land socially and politically. However, some practices like these which were prevailing then, have not been dealt strongly in the quran...well, thats what I felt after reading the english version of it. Which is why people now have the liberty to interpret it to their advantage. Anyways, thankyou for your insight..as usual !!

I think only weak men and men with moral perversion need religion.

I feel that a normal person doesn't need religion to make him a good person. Instead a bit of moral science/civics and a good secular upbringing can make a person really a good person and a responsible citizen. 

Slave trading persisted in Saudi Arabia until the early 50's and 60's 

See the "Red Sea Sharks" Page 48.

The ships brought many Africans who came from various ports of Africa to perform the Hajj. They were brought to Jeddah where they were sold to the agents as slaves. All along the poor Africans are under the impression that they are being taken to Mecca for the Hajj.

On the contary they don't really follow the Quran but their own perverted version of the religion is what these brutes follow. Notice how many men today don't follow the basic rules of Islam but know how to use the whole "I'm a Muslim" front when they want another wife! Islam is innocent of such evil doers..those who pick and chose according to their conveniences and disregard who they may abuse and oppress along the way! 

Fathima, It was a man's world and thus all religions protect the ulterior interests of  males...so, be it the torah, bible or the quran, are we to believe god favoured men !! :-/

As you said, those days the society allowed men to have physical relations with their female slaves just because the owners looked after the slaves. This is the biggest reason why we see the abuse of maids in this part of the world even today. Saudis who blindly follow the quran without using their conscience, have not changed their mindset. Their instincts still rule.

spot on britey..so sad but true..despite of the news that there's so many cases (report and unreported news) about maids being molested, abuse, maltreated..they still want to work just to feed their families back home.. because of lack of good paying jobs back home..

If a person following a religion is prone to same evil deeds as a person not following a religion...wouldnt the world be a better place to live without any religion.....atleast one disparity, and a huge one at that,  among human beings to differentiate one from another can be avoided...just MHO....

True that...ha ha!

Read it! Actually we have a similar story in Islam as well. You must be aware that as Muslims we believe God sent about many many religions before Islam including Judaism and Christianity. And there were then along the way people who did righteous deeds without really affiliating themselves to any faith but believing in the existence of one true Lord.But again how people found out what was right and wrong didn't happen just like that,overnight. And we believe it was God constantly sending messengers to teach people that brought about such knowledge. And Islam is all about being a good moralistic human being who promotes all things right and just and condemns evil and injustice. But if one dosen't believe so be it. To you be your faith and to me be mine. PS:I never insulted the Flying Spaggeti monster. Its actually against Islam to insult another's faith!!

you need to be seperated from your family to stop them from going hungry?

Fathima -how will you know the truth when it comes before you?

If not for these lazy arses, many developing nations would not get the oodles of foreign income the maids generate and many a family would go hungry.

FathimaH- Lol.Moroccan girls are so hot to be maids. Well there's nothing wrong in having a hot woman serving u food on the table,that would increase the appetite (but im not sure if it's the appetite for food.lol). Seriously,there's nothing wrong in that,they are working to earn money not as prostitutes..it's all up to the husbands now whether they'll lose their self control. Same applies with "If you're not beautiful then u r a no-no to any pageants". It's not all about physical. Let's face it,a horny man would go for any girl if he's so deperate for it. Are we that picky when we are hungry? :p

it's high time for them to move their lazy arses to do their household stuffs instead hiring maids from different parts of the world..if this will happen, for sure, we can see a thread here in ql talking about "Morrocan maid raped by her Saudi Man employer."

Fathima - Please dont insult the flying spaggetti monster. He has just as much right to exist as your 'god"Please read the Good Samaritan and let's discuss the moral of the story and what it means to be human.

Aameen to that!

Well Fatimah.. next they may want maids from more exotic locations like the Cayman islands or Bermuda and hopefully the day is not far off when they may have to do their own work themsellves

PS: lol...Morrocan girls are too hot to be maids...khalas!  Slapper :May God guide us all to see and accept the truth devoid of falsehood and misguidance..Aameen. Believe it or not to date I've not heard the story of the good samaritan.I mean yeah sure I know how the word is used figuratively but never read the actual story.Will go Google it now. I'm guessing that will give me an idea as to what your beliefs are!

Princess - then when do we start to speak of "what is truth"??? Does truth matter? Does this matter to you? Living a lie is an issue to me. Maybe to some it isnt. 

FATIMAH - I think that Christopher Hitchens is 100% correct in "Religion poisons everything"WHat you are saying is as logical and as truthful as claiming that "the flying spaggetti monster alone will judge  us." you lack reason. Sorry that should be "good samaritan"

Slapper - I guess it's the story of the good samaritan. We dont have to argue about religion here and we dont have to prove that this certain religion is better than the other. I dont have religion but i believe in certain things and IMO i dont have to tell people that they should not believe in God. It's their life.

So let's go back to the moroccan girls now..:p

Of the two of us who is upon the truth and who is upon falsehood is not something we can decide but again its upto God alone to judge us both justly.Who is Sumertian? Genuinely have no clue.

fatimah - you say "You are entitled to your opinion on God and I am to mine, cos that's your God given right:choice" no issue with this. However only one of us is speaking the truth. Yes?? And BTW, of course you have heard the story of the good Sumertian?

You are entitled to your opinion on God and I am to mine, cos that's your God given right:choice.As for the way I see it thousands of years ago many evil despicable deeds were done by people who saw it as "natural".Today you feel slavery is wrong,murder is wrong,stealing is wrong,but that may not have been what our great great ancestors felt. Islam came about to teach people what was right and wrong even though it may have seemed otherwise to them at that time.One more thing Slapper reality may not always be what we perceive.

Freeing a slave basically meant buying them from their masters and letting them go their own way. This was always considered a very very rewarding act in Islam where even in order to repent for certain sins one was required to free a slave. Hence by encouraging freeing slaves today we see the permitted slavery non existent. Whatever you see now is not slavery but Haraam acts been done to servants claiming them to be slaves.

Fathima -permitted by whom??? You need a "higher" power to tell you that slavery is wrong??? I challange your claim that God is All Knowing and Wise. Reality tells me completely the opposite

exit permit?All my Muslim friends (they are many) said that the uniqueness of Islam is that not a single written text in Quran NEVER changed a bit and I believe that although I have not read it.So if slavery is practiced then, who abolished it?

Good question. Well as it was at the time of the Prophet, when slavery was still practiced, a female slave was actually equal to your wife in the sense that you looked after her well and in turn it was permited to have relations as well. This is in no way comparable to  a mistress cos there were conditions as to how a slave came about to being a slave, and the rights she had as well makes it completely different from having a mistress or commiting adultery . As for Mariah, the Prophet's slave , then its not so well known but true that the Prophet actually married her. And Islam placed a great deal of rewards on one who freed slaves.Perhaps thats why today we see the actual permitted slavery abolished, And God is All Knowing and Wise. PS: note again slaves and maids/servants are not and never will be considered the same.

Fathima,

I have a question...If adultery is a sin as per Islam, how come sex with women slaves is not condemned strongly in Quran? I have read even the Prophet had a concubine ( mistress), a christian lady from Egypt.

Is keeping a mistress not considered adultery?

Raven1968 - Chill. :p if he's talkin behind people's back he's in the right position to kiss ass.:p

ROFL - blood's boiling?

yeah true Princess.....with every post this guy reveals what a big loser he is, its funny watching him humiliate himself though....

Raven1986 - We're cool.. why do we have to put too much emotions in a public forum anyway. We have our lives outside QL, this one seem to have life here alone.. give him a break.

*yawn*

I think the wives have a valid point . There was a time that "Gulf Arabs" used to go to Morrocco for a good time, get married there and then come home alone.

Better to not put the cream in front of the cat :o)

I'm laughing while reading ur discussions because it seems like a ..."nuts"   Hahahahahaha!

ROFL..

yeah not surprising Princess....hes just a sad little twat, snall man syndrome going on there, I think we have found the def of LOSER, well done retarded you win!!

TR there are lot of Saudi ladies that are having children outside wedlock then they leaving their children behind and coming to other parts of ME to work.. Hold on am mixing some nationalities here! Ooops it not really my business what people do in their home or home countries!

Raven1968 - He's hajmola.He's been block a lot of times here..:p  he must be very bored..poor chap.

get the essence of it and think again.I stand by my comment!

@ totally_retarded Good to see you are living up to your user name....I bet your parents are proud of you been the lowest type of human filth on the planet, well done

TR - Awful lot,u want some hajmola?

Totally_retarded - Say what u wanna say hajmola.:p

Fathimah - Sad but true :(

totally retarded!

I stated my opinion,that doesnt mean i want to dictate people what to do. :) That's what i have observed but as usual i dont wanna stick my nose to others' bizzo. It's their life anyway.

just follow rule 11 and 12! Lol!

Yes I agree that while cheating is always bad I guess most people expect better from Muslims since they know how serious of a sin adultery is in Islam. Though men the world over may cheat seeing a Muslim man,specially when he outwardly shows he is a "practicing" Muslim, cheat makes it far more disgusting and hypocritical. Sadly though today around the Muslim world we see a widespread of adultery, consumption of alchohol, and other crimes been committed. This is due to people not been bothered anymore about gaining knowledge and practicing their religion. Its sickening really but its also among the prophecies of our Prophet. That as time goes by knowledge of the religion will diminish and great crimes been committed will increase. God have mercy on us all!

@Raven 1968 and gadarene, i like ur minds... i mean the way u think

because your last phrase says it all, you initiated it already!

Well,cheaters exist anywhere. I don't want to compare muslim men with christian men or even with jews. Muslims have the right to marry 4 times. Their wives are aware about that. It's acceptable in their religion but i do know many muslim men here in Qatar who are keeping on twisting their necks while they are driving eventhough their wives are there. I have a lot of arab friends who are muslim of course,and one of them have tried cheating on his wife. His reason is: They were arranged to get married by their parents. He married his wife not bec.he loves her but bec.his parents want him too. After marriage,he cant stand living with his wife which made him seek happiness outside their home. Sad but i understand what he's goin' thru. I respect Islam,even read several books about it. I ahve nothing against Islam. Human in every religion are not perfect angels even in Christianity (my religion in my birth certificate),i have many things to say against it too. Religion isnt an issue for me or their beliefs in marriage. Cheating will always be bad,there's no gray areas on this thing but people have their reasons and i respect that. I let people live their lives the way they want. It's not my business.

I take a note, too many sweeping "opinions" here! Admission of guilt?

All Moroccan girls are very sexy like Ruby.

"BUT these guys do it WAY more than the rest .." Any proof to back this statement? Cos the way I see it many many men and women the world over are prone to cheat and there's no real statistic to prove who cheats more.Even from where I come from.But I would say deffinitly for me,as a Muslimah who believes adultery to be of the major sins, the fact that it happens as much as it does in the lands claiming to follow Islam and Shariah makes it far worse than it happening anywhere else in the world.

Saudi is the Axis of Evil....Nuf said!

Saudi men,Moroccan maids,jealous Saudi wives...typical TV trash series stuff!...the small difference it will make is that the Saudi men will be making less frequent "business" or "camping" trips to Beirut,Casablanca,Bangkok & all the other well frequented "business" & "camping" hubs...Gulf Arab men cheat.period & they do it BIG TIME,with everything ranging from keeping mistresses on the side to one night stands @ home,abroad & everything else in between...before any of you start off,yes ALL men cheat as do women BUT these guys do it WAY more than the rest & a lot of the wives know & accept it,as long as they eventually come back home & buy her the big diamond to make up for it...

Shamrock - Well,not everyone learns.:(

But they'll sure learn the lesson

Why not serve a lorena-bobbitt-style for cheating husbands,. i hope they can also have it reattached..lol.

moroccans are really attractive but as what jed said, men will go for anything. if the man really loves & respects his wife i don't think 'housemaid' will be an issue in your household

PrincessSarah, wives should better serve a Lorena Bobbitt special to their husbands, don't you think?

Fubar...maybe that’s the reason for many divorces..unless and until caught how can they divorce...lol

He pays their bills, fubar!

Ladies, if you are married to a man who would go weak at the knees for a Morrocan maid, you might want to consider a divorce.Why on Earth would women stay married to such loathsome men who can't be trusted with a maid?

having a house maid now adays is type of pristige not at all a need but wives need to show off regardless of her role in the house

they complain about all nationalities and still want one that can be like a robot nice looking but not attarctive for the husband to play around with,so no matter where the maid comes from the story will remain the same .mind you some men will go for any thing.!!!!!!!

I am talking about the cross connections.

Just1s has the best suggestion. Robots that look like Angelina Jolie or like an ordinary house-maid will do the job. And if the relation gets too tough, the wife can switch her off!

Why not just get Moroccan Butlers instead? OH wait we are talking about Saudi men.

if they can't treat human maids decently, not monkeys, hippos, or anything will be safe with those ogres!

Good old joe - Agree. Someone really dear to me have experienced these kind of maltreatments. Refrigerators are locked, owners let 'em eat spoiled food,giving them bones to eat,giving 1 bottle of shampoo for all the maids good for 1 year, letting them work 24 hours, dont provide them a decent place to sleep in,wake them up by splashing a pale of water,not even giving them enough water to drink. :(

Totally agree Joe but treating people (workers) with respect and dignity is something completely foreign to them....

What this people need is to learn to respect and treat their maids and other workers well because this workers come to do an honest job livng behind their families and children and sadly some of them never get back home because of this evil and sadistic employers.This employers should be made to go through training seminars on how to treat the maids, house drivers, etc  just as the maids and other workers are made to go through this seminars back home 

sun26872 I was thinking that Italian Drivers will be busy with the Maids so everyone will be happy!

Why don't the Saudi Housewives do the maids work!! Problem solved!

If  they hire Italian drivers,the husbands will call for a protest.

Why dont they get Morrocon Maids and Italian Drivers!

Saudi wives can buy and ask their Morrocan maids to wear rapex. Hmmm What is rapex???

Khanan.. hope you dont have Moroccon girls in your office? ..:P

Why dont they buy chastity belts for the maids and keep the keys? :p

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's could not resist and fall to a 17-year-old Moroccan, Karima el-Mahroug. :)

I agree with MM...:)

LP.. thats to be on the safer side...:) not all men can resist temptations...:)

btw.. u got your id back? and MM what about your old id?  

The most Morrocan women I've met are co wives of my western friends and yes they are quite stunning!Miss M :now make a note...no Morrocan nannies,ok? lol

LP you are right, Perhaps a Robotics maid.A scientist should design a robot maid specially for this type of people in the middle east, with that there will be no maids can be abused, thretened, raped or murdered by their employer.

oh strange!!!!

true.. morrocan ladies rock!!!!

they indeed are!

I

If the Saudis need "ugly" housemaids, because the husbands are cheaters, they should hire monkeys!

Well....I hate to generalize but every Moroccan woman I've ever met has been quite attractive...